For STO, there is no real competitor. The lame mobile Star Trek games aren't even worth talking about and there is no modern Star Trek game that can compete with STO. STO can more easily dictate terms and prices and the players have shown over time that they are more than willing to pay the prices that Cryptic demands.
Its not just Star Trek, what other adventure space game is there? I mean one where your ship AND on foot character matter, are extremely customizable, and even remotely accessible? I cant think of a single one beyond Star Citizen.... yeah, that's how barren the field is for this type of game.
Gee, I wonder if they are going to do the secret two ship reveals for this Bundle's debut on the Consoles?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
i did some research because i hated the price. however come to find out the bundle is super cheap. if you want theLegendary Temporal Flight-Deck Carrier alone it goes for over one bil on exchange if you do not like to gamble you will spend 200 on keys alone. if you do not have a lot of these ships its even cheaper because you are getting everything that comes with their t5 and t6 counter parts. so i am fine with the price. if they didn't come in a bundle it would still cost a lot if they sold them one at a time because they come with all the consoles of their counter parts so they would still cost more then the normal 3k
It would've been nice of Cryptic to pull-off a successful 10FW livestream highlighting this bundle & answering, or dodging, questions about it, but for the second or third week in a row for some reason nope just a few minutes here & there then give-up.
If one can overlook the BIG upfront cost there is some decent value in the bundle IF one doesn't own many of the older ships/consoles. I don't look at this bundle as legendary, Cryptic has admitted they didn't want to make any of these ships too good compared to their counterparts.
The only things this bundle brings that are brand new are the exclusive exterior appearances for the 10 ships, some of those are slight, & then the brand new 10 starship traits which are account-wide unlocks. Otherwise there's a lot of kitbashing, rehashing, & switching around between ships for another similar version of a ship & nothing wrong with that.
I definitely won't be the first to buy this, & simply won't even consider buying unless a zen sale, but I'll be eagerly waiting for the reviews from those that do buy it to learn some finer details.
well, this time wasn't their fault - apparently the stream kept crashing on them and the little bit they managed to get out was ALL they could get out
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
i did some research because i hated the price. however come to find out the bundle is super cheap. if you want theLegendary Temporal Flight-Deck Carrier alone it goes for over one bil on exchange if you do not like to gamble you will spend 200 on keys alone. if you do not have a lot of these ships its even cheaper because you are getting everything that comes with their t5 and t6 counter parts. so i am fine with the price. if they didn't come in a bundle it would still cost a lot if they sold them one at a time because they come with all the consoles of their counter parts so they would still cost more then the normal 3k
I think a good portion of the 'value determination' depends on where you are in the game currently and how long you have already been playing.
For someone that has been here for years, has tons of ships and has already established a method of gaining in game money to get the ships they want.. this bundle is not a great deal. That's the position I find myself in and I am certainly not going to drop the money for this bundle.
To someone that hasn't been playing as long, doesn't have a ton of ships and is struggling to get that T6 Connie they have always wanted.. then sure, this isn't a bad deal.
The problem I think Cryptic might face is that your 'whales' are usually in that first group. Sure, a lot of them will buy it no matter what because.. well... they're whales and that's what whales do.
The players in group 2 are usually in group 2 because they are either unable or unwilling to put hundreds of dollars into a video game. If that's the case then a $200-$300 ship bundle just doesn't seem like it's going to be popular.
While you will have your occasional newer player that decides that this bundle is worth it, it seems to me like the primary focus of this bundle is the games biggest spenders. The real determination will be rather or not those 'whales' buy enough to make this bundle profitable. If the bundle sells well then you won't see the ships available individually.. but if it flops.. they might break it down into smaller chunks to encourage people to spend.
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
Thats going to be the main problem if they sell the ships individually; their prices.
For example, the Defiant includes (as far as i am aware) all the previous skins including the unique one for the bundle. So the skins for the T4, T5 and T6 defiant. Then you have all the consoles and weapons from those respective ships, which again covers the T4, T5 and T6 Variants.
Then you have the trait, which is the easiest part of this bundle, only one trait from a previous ship.
However, then you need to take into account that for this defiant, shes a "fleet variant" out of the box. Unlike her previous sister ship which isnt. Full spec pilot doesnt need accounting as there are already other "full spec" escorts that dont raise the price normally.
However, combined this all together and for a new purchaser they are essentially getting four starships (T4, T5, T6) + this model and all their associated goodies. Theres no discount offer for prior purchasers as essentially the new defiant is a compltely new starship (Defiant on certain things some would say ).
So 4000 - 4500 zen, seems potentially low. Especially when you consider the model and skin additions. It would not surprise me that for the defiant her individual package cost might be more towards 5000 - 6000 zen (without a 25% off sale price).
Then you have the Odyssey problem. She includes the consoles and traits from her all T6 and T5 sister ships, even their skins. So figuring what all together those ships are worth 6000 zen seems a bit low. But do you price this ship individually higher than the Defiant, which doesnt have as much? If you do, Odyssey captains might not be especially happy. If you dont, Defiant captains (bit rightly i would honestly say) might ask why are they paying the same when technically they dont get as many goodies.
How much you get, regardless of if you purchased the prior vessels. Exactly what is a "skin" worth? A trait, a weapon/console?How much, for example, is one of the odyssey consoles part of the 3000 zen price? 250? 500?
That's going to be the crucial determination. Essentially, you could get the T6 Odyssey individually and never touch or grab the other odysseys ever again. Same with the Defiant. That's where the price determination if they sell them individually could reside on.
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
The players in group 2 are usually in group 2 because they are either unable or unwilling to put hundreds of dollars into a video game. If that's the case then a $200-$300 ship bundle just doesn't seem like it's going to be popular.
I think primarily the players in group 2 are going to be experiencing some bitterness over this bundle. They might even think "Nice budle. I will start saving up for it." Except... they can't, because it's limited time only. To them it feels like "Either forego on paying rent this month, or sucks to be you!" Feels a bit like predatory sales tactics to me.
Now, as has often been said, ppl who can't afford money on a game, simply should think about doing so in the first place. It isn't all that black and white, though. I bet many ppl are willing to drop an occasional $50 here and there, but $200-300, due immediately, or lose out majorly, is for many ppl simply too much -- even when, over a year, they could still be spending quite a bit.
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
If they offered the legendary Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid/Odyssey, (new skin, new trait, no console) as stand-alone ships on the c-store, they should each cost 3000 Zen. Just like any other T6 variant. There's no reason why they should be more expensive. They have never been part of a promotion(unlike the Vizier), or been the grand price of a lockbox or promo-pack (like the Connies, NX and Crossfield).
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
If they offered the legendary Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid/Odyssey, (new skin, new trait, no console) as stand-alone ships on the c-store, they should each cost 3000 Zen. Just like any other T6 variant. There's no reason why they should be more expensive. They have never been part of a promotion(unlike the Vizier), or been the grand price of a lockbox or promo-pack (like the Connies, NX and Crossfield).
I'm not sure they can just offer them without consoles and all the skins/traits. Those are likely very baked into the ships at this point.
Baked in. You mean like I said about the Advanced Phasers on the Discovery Constitution?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The players in group 2 are usually in group 2 because they are either unable or unwilling to put hundreds of dollars into a video game. If that's the case then a $200-$300 ship bundle just doesn't seem like it's going to be popular.
I think primarily the players in group 2 are going to be experiencing some bitterness over this bundle. They might even think "Nice budle. I will start saving up for it." Except... they can't, because it's limited time only. To them it feels like "Either forego on paying rent this month, or sucks to be you!" Feels a bit like predatory sales tactics to me.
Now, as has often been said, ppl who can't afford money on a game, simply should think about doing so in the first place. It isn't all that black and white, though. I bet many ppl are willing to drop an occasional $50 here and there, but $200-300, due immediately, or lose out majorly, is for many ppl simply too much -- even when, over a year, they could still be spending quite a bit.
Pretty much agree with all of this. I'll admit, the whole 'get it now before we remove it' thing does make it feel a little.. umm.. sketchy.
If they offered the legendary Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid/Odyssey, (new skin, new trait, no console) as stand-alone ships on the c-store, they should each cost 3000 Zen. Just like any other T6 variant. There's no reason why they should be more expensive. They have never been part of a promotion(unlike the Vizier), or been the grand price of a lockbox or promo-pack (like the Connies, NX and Crossfield).
The 'Legendary Ships' come with all the previous consoles and skins of all the previous variants. So if you bought the Legendary Odyssey for example, you would have access to every T5 and T6 skin, all the consoles and all the traits.
They are certainly worth more then standard C-Store ships.
Too late at this point, but I think they should have kept the lockbox and lobi ships (Connie, Konnie, Donnie, Crossfield and NX) exclusive to the bundle but allowed all of the "normal"(non lockbox/lobi) ships to be purchased individually. I mean, it makes sense for the lockbox/lobi ships to be more expensive to obtain, but these "normal" ships shouldn't be treated the same as the lockbox/lobi ships IMO. And I say this as someone who is happily buying the bundle and have no interest in buying them individually. But that doesn't mean I have no empathy for those that do.
Baked in. You mean like I said about the Advanced Phasers on the Discovery Constitution?
Not the same, because the issue as I see it is that these "ships" are a package. You get the weapons, the consoles, the skins, an that is baked into the ship, so you can't later get the ship without consoles or weapons. You can't separate them out without just making an entirely new "ship."
However, regarding the phasers and the wide angle quantum, those didn't need to be put in as part of the package for these new versions. That they are part of the package is likely because they copy/pasted, to some degree, the old versions of the ship to start with as a basis for the new ones. Now they are baked in, of course, but they didn't have to be.
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
If they offered the legendary Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid/Odyssey, (new skin, new trait, no console) as stand-alone ships on the c-store, they should each cost 3000 Zen. Just like any other T6 variant. There's no reason why they should be more expensive.
There IS a reason they should be more expensive, they include every console and cosmetic item from every previous variant. 6k zen would be fair imo, possibly with a scaling discount for those who own previous variants.
I'll guarantee you that if these ships are ever sold individually, they will go for quite a bit more than your average C-Store T6. They've included every skin, every console, and every weapon of every other variant with these ships, plus 2 Starship Traits, and they're Fleet level to boot. All of that will be used to justify the higher cost. And rightly so.
People have been claiming for years that they'd be willing to pay $100s for various Lockbox/Lobi/Promo ships if they were made available in the C-Store as guaranteed account unlocks. Well, here we are. It's happening and, not surprising, people are still complaining about it. 😒
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I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
If they offered the legendary Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid/Odyssey, (new skin, new trait, no console) as stand-alone ships on the c-store, they should each cost 3000 Zen. Just like any other T6 variant. There's no reason why they should be more expensive.
There IS a reason they should be more expensive, they include every console and cosmetic item from every previous variant. 6k zen would be fair imo, possibly with a scaling discount for those who own previous variants.
As I said. One skin, one trait, no console. It would be a T6 fleet variant (+500 Zen) without unique console (-500Zen). 3000 Zen.
There's no reason whatsover why the new ships couldn't be sold without all the previous skins, traits and consoles.
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
If they offered the legendary Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid/Odyssey, (new skin, new trait, no console) as stand-alone ships on the c-store, they should each cost 3000 Zen. Just like any other T6 variant. There's no reason why they should be more expensive. They have never been part of a promotion(unlike the Vizier), or been the grand price of a lockbox or promo-pack (like the Connies, NX and Crossfield).
I'm not sure they can just offer them without consoles and all the skins/traits. Those are likely very baked into the ships at this point.
Incorrect, the existing T6 versions do not include any applicable variant's consoles or cosmetics. If you want to kitbash the T6 Odyssey parts you need to buy all three variant's, if you want your Defiant to have a cloak you need to buy the lower tier variant that includes the cloak, etc.
But if they did that for a single purchase option on these ships then they wouldn't really be "Legendary" variants anymore.
People have been claiming for years that they'd be willing to pay $100s for various Lockbox/Lobi/Promo ships if they were made available in the C-Store as guaranteed account unlocks. Well, here we are. It's happening and, not surprising, people are still complaining about it. 😒
But people who were saying they would be willing to pay $100s of Dollars for an promo account unlock are most likely NOT identical to those complaining about the pricing and 'bundling' now. A vocal minority, or even a vocal majority doesn't speak for everyone.
> @valoreah said: > (Quote) > > That is not what predatory pricing is.
Well, when one doesn't truly understand a thing, but is against it anyway, hyperbole, obfuscation, and misdirection seem to be the reaction.
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> @evilmark444 said: > (Quote) > > There IS a reason they should be more expensive, they include every console and cosmetic item from every previous variant. 6k zen would be fair imo, possibly with a scaling discount for those who own previous variants.
Let’s not forget this is free to play game and they have employees to pay and bills to pay.
> evilmark444 said:
> (Quote)
>
> There IS a reason they should be more expensive, they include every console and cosmetic item from every previous variant. 6k zen would be fair imo, possibly with a scaling discount for those who own previous variants.
Let’s not forget this is free to play game and they have employees to pay and bills to pay.
Oh trust me, I'll NEVER forget that it's F2P, that's my single most HATED change the game has ever had. But I don't want to derail this thread with a long rant about my extremely negative opinions of the F2P business model.
> @baddmoonrizin said: > People have been claiming for years that they'd be willing to pay $100s for various Lockbox/Lobi/Promo ships if they were made available in the C-Store as guaranteed account unlocks. Well, here we are. It's happening and, not surprising, people are still complaining about it. 😒
Come on BMZ, dont be a strawman. Youre better than that. You know the vast majority of people complaining about the bundle price ARENT the folks who want the connies/lockbox ships, they are the folks who just want one or two of the "normal" ships without having to buy the whole bundle. And that is a completely valid complaint. So dont try to write off that majority by talking about the lockbox ships.
Comments
Its not just Star Trek, what other adventure space game is there? I mean one where your ship AND on foot character matter, are extremely customizable, and even remotely accessible? I cant think of a single one beyond Star Citizen.... yeah, that's how barren the field is for this type of game.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If one can overlook the BIG upfront cost there is some decent value in the bundle IF one doesn't own many of the older ships/consoles. I don't look at this bundle as legendary, Cryptic has admitted they didn't want to make any of these ships too good compared to their counterparts.
The only things this bundle brings that are brand new are the exclusive exterior appearances for the 10 ships, some of those are slight, & then the brand new 10 starship traits which are account-wide unlocks. Otherwise there's a lot of kitbashing, rehashing, & switching around between ships for another similar version of a ship & nothing wrong with that.
I definitely won't be the first to buy this, & simply won't even consider buying unless a zen sale, but I'll be eagerly waiting for the reviews from those that do buy it to learn some finer details.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I think a good portion of the 'value determination' depends on where you are in the game currently and how long you have already been playing.
For someone that has been here for years, has tons of ships and has already established a method of gaining in game money to get the ships they want.. this bundle is not a great deal. That's the position I find myself in and I am certainly not going to drop the money for this bundle.
To someone that hasn't been playing as long, doesn't have a ton of ships and is struggling to get that T6 Connie they have always wanted.. then sure, this isn't a bad deal.
The problem I think Cryptic might face is that your 'whales' are usually in that first group. Sure, a lot of them will buy it no matter what because.. well... they're whales and that's what whales do.
The players in group 2 are usually in group 2 because they are either unable or unwilling to put hundreds of dollars into a video game. If that's the case then a $200-$300 ship bundle just doesn't seem like it's going to be popular.
While you will have your occasional newer player that decides that this bundle is worth it, it seems to me like the primary focus of this bundle is the games biggest spenders. The real determination will be rather or not those 'whales' buy enough to make this bundle profitable. If the bundle sells well then you won't see the ships available individually.. but if it flops.. they might break it down into smaller chunks to encourage people to spend.
Time will tell.
$100 for thew Defiant?! Yeah, no. Keep in mind existing (Fleet) T6 Defiant is just a C-store ship ($35). So, I'll be nice, and will pay $60 or so for it. But not $100.
And that's the trick in selling the ships individually...
No way they would all be the same price. The new Defiant.. 4000-4500 Zen seems about right. No one is going to pay $100 for the Defiant, but the Constitution Class would obviously command a higher price.
It's all just opinion, but to me, 4500 Zen per ship sounds fair, but make the Connies only available in a 2pk for 8-10k Zen. $100 for the 2 connies is a bit much, but there are a lot of people that just want those ships out of the bundle and that's still 1/3 of the normal price. Considering you get the Phasers and pets as an account unlock.. it seems fair to me.
Again though, that's based on nothing but my own personal opinion of how much they're worth.
Thats going to be the main problem if they sell the ships individually; their prices.
For example, the Defiant includes (as far as i am aware) all the previous skins including the unique one for the bundle. So the skins for the T4, T5 and T6 defiant. Then you have all the consoles and weapons from those respective ships, which again covers the T4, T5 and T6 Variants.
Then you have the trait, which is the easiest part of this bundle, only one trait from a previous ship.
However, then you need to take into account that for this defiant, shes a "fleet variant" out of the box. Unlike her previous sister ship which isnt. Full spec pilot doesnt need accounting as there are already other "full spec" escorts that dont raise the price normally.
However, combined this all together and for a new purchaser they are essentially getting four starships (T4, T5, T6) + this model and all their associated goodies. Theres no discount offer for prior purchasers as essentially the new defiant is a compltely new starship (Defiant on certain things some would say
So 4000 - 4500 zen, seems potentially low. Especially when you consider the model and skin additions. It would not surprise me that for the defiant her individual package cost might be more towards 5000 - 6000 zen (without a 25% off sale price).
Then you have the Odyssey problem. She includes the consoles and traits from her all T6 and T5 sister ships, even their skins. So figuring what all together those ships are worth 6000 zen seems a bit low. But do you price this ship individually higher than the Defiant, which doesnt have as much? If you do, Odyssey captains might not be especially happy. If you dont, Defiant captains (bit rightly i would honestly say) might ask why are they paying the same when technically they dont get as many goodies.
How much you get, regardless of if you purchased the prior vessels. Exactly what is a "skin" worth? A trait, a weapon/console?How much, for example, is one of the odyssey consoles part of the 3000 zen price? 250? 500?
That's going to be the crucial determination. Essentially, you could get the T6 Odyssey individually and never touch or grab the other odysseys ever again. Same with the Defiant. That's where the price determination if they sell them individually could reside on.
^^ I like your opinion.
I think primarily the players in group 2 are going to be experiencing some bitterness over this bundle. They might even think "Nice budle. I will start saving up for it." Except... they can't, because it's limited time only. To them it feels like "Either forego on paying rent this month, or sucks to be you!" Feels a bit like predatory sales tactics to me.
Now, as has often been said, ppl who can't afford money on a game, simply should think about doing so in the first place. It isn't all that black and white, though. I bet many ppl are willing to drop an occasional $50 here and there, but $200-300, due immediately, or lose out majorly, is for many ppl simply too much -- even when, over a year, they could still be spending quite a bit.
If they offered the legendary Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid/Odyssey, (new skin, new trait, no console) as stand-alone ships on the c-store, they should each cost 3000 Zen. Just like any other T6 variant. There's no reason why they should be more expensive. They have never been part of a promotion(unlike the Vizier), or been the grand price of a lockbox or promo-pack (like the Connies, NX and Crossfield).
I'm not sure they can just offer them without consoles and all the skins/traits. Those are likely very baked into the ships at this point.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Pretty much agree with all of this. I'll admit, the whole 'get it now before we remove it' thing does make it feel a little.. umm.. sketchy.
The 'Legendary Ships' come with all the previous consoles and skins of all the previous variants. So if you bought the Legendary Odyssey for example, you would have access to every T5 and T6 skin, all the consoles and all the traits.
They are certainly worth more then standard C-Store ships.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Not the same, because the issue as I see it is that these "ships" are a package. You get the weapons, the consoles, the skins, an that is baked into the ship, so you can't later get the ship without consoles or weapons. You can't separate them out without just making an entirely new "ship."
However, regarding the phasers and the wide angle quantum, those didn't need to be put in as part of the package for these new versions. That they are part of the package is likely because they copy/pasted, to some degree, the old versions of the ship to start with as a basis for the new ones. Now they are baked in, of course, but they didn't have to be.
There IS a reason they should be more expensive, they include every console and cosmetic item from every previous variant. 6k zen would be fair imo, possibly with a scaling discount for those who own previous variants.
People have been claiming for years that they'd be willing to pay $100s for various Lockbox/Lobi/Promo ships if they were made available in the C-Store as guaranteed account unlocks. Well, here we are. It's happening and, not surprising, people are still complaining about it. 😒
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As I said. One skin, one trait, no console. It would be a T6 fleet variant (+500 Zen) without unique console (-500Zen). 3000 Zen.
There's no reason whatsover why the new ships couldn't be sold without all the previous skins, traits and consoles.
Incorrect, the existing T6 versions do not include any applicable variant's consoles or cosmetics. If you want to kitbash the T6 Odyssey parts you need to buy all three variant's, if you want your Defiant to have a cloak you need to buy the lower tier variant that includes the cloak, etc.
But if they did that for a single purchase option on these ships then they wouldn't really be "Legendary" variants anymore.
But people who were saying they would be willing to pay $100s of Dollars for an promo account unlock are most likely NOT identical to those complaining about the pricing and 'bundling' now. A vocal minority, or even a vocal majority doesn't speak for everyone.
> (Quote)
>
> That is not what predatory pricing is.
Well, when one doesn't truly understand a thing, but is against it anyway, hyperbole, obfuscation, and misdirection seem to be the reaction.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
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> (Quote)
>
> There IS a reason they should be more expensive, they include every console and cosmetic item from every previous variant. 6k zen would be fair imo, possibly with a scaling discount for those who own previous variants.
Let’s not forget this is free to play game and they have employees to pay and bills to pay.
Oh trust me, I'll NEVER forget that it's F2P, that's my single most HATED change the game has ever had. But I don't want to derail this thread with a long rant about my extremely negative opinions of the F2P business model.
> People have been claiming for years that they'd be willing to pay $100s for various Lockbox/Lobi/Promo ships if they were made available in the C-Store as guaranteed account unlocks. Well, here we are. It's happening and, not surprising, people are still complaining about it. 😒
Come on BMZ, dont be a strawman. Youre better than that. You know the vast majority of people complaining about the bundle price ARENT the folks who want the connies/lockbox ships, they are the folks who just want one or two of the "normal" ships without having to buy the whole bundle. And that is a completely valid complaint. So dont try to write off that majority by talking about the lockbox ships.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008