I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
If I am to shell out $200 on the R&D ship I always wanted, I want it to be at least as good, not a little less.
The current state of the Exchange suggests that, unless you've got oodles of EC already, you will need to shell out $200 for the R&D ship either way. This way, you get it account-wide, along with 9 other ships.
You are missing the point and keep going back to official sizes. I say, scr*w those sizes. They are all the CONSTITUTION. It does not matter, forget those sizes and just let the parts be interchangeable.
Does size have any practical matter in this game? I mean we had Universe Class ships flying through the Breach. There was recently a Thread about ships being bigger than DS9.
Umm they have to reskin things and it takes time? Or have you forgotten how bad the windows and stuff look on the Universe class compared to all the other AoY ships? Either way everything is all said and done and all 3 Connies are different ships and they will probably never share skins.
LTC engineering on the legendary defiant is good - it means being able to slot EPtW3, which is a significant upgrade over 1 (since you'd ideally be using the LT slot for A2B)
I don't do A2B any more. I prefer a LtCmdr station for PHO 2 (with the Iktomi Trait). So, not saying I wanted a LtCmdr station on the Legendary Defiant, but, rather, that, in that case, I would have preferred to double my vital boff abilities the classic way. Aka, much Tact stations.
I would have used EPtS1/A2D1/EPtW3 on the current Legacy Defiant. I say 'would have', as I decided not to get the bundle. When I heard that guy in the youtube review talk about things like 'Not as OP as their R&D counterpart', that was the final nail in the coffin, for me. If I am to shell out $200 on the R&D ship I always wanted, I want it to be at least as good, not a little less.
How is it not as OP? The main ship I see you talk about is the Defiant...sure maybe it doesn't have the bridge layout you want but EPTW III is great and the 5/3 sure as hell destroys the 4/3/1. Plus a lot of these other ships are huge improvements, only two ships that I would say are downgrades are of course the two R&D ships...they still want people gambling on the originals. Other than those 2 everything else is pretty much a nice step up.
Me personally I'm not even worrying much about the Connies (I'd probably fly the Discovery one though)...for me I'm drooling over the Odyssey and the Intrepid and you seem to really like the Defiant. You're the only judge on if it's worth the value to you...but I think to judge this pack on one or two ships that you may or may not even has much interest in isn't doing it justice.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
You are missing the point and keep going back to official sizes. I say, scr*w those sizes. They are all the CONSTITUTION. It does not matter, forget those sizes and just let the parts be interchangeable.
Does size have any practical matter in this game? I mean we had Universe Class ships flying through the Breach. There was recently a Thread about ships being bigger than DS9.
Umm they have to reskin things and it takes time? Or have you forgotten how bad the windows and stuff look on the Universe class compared to all the other AoY ships? Either way everything is all said and done and all 3 Connies are different ships and they will probably never share skins.
I obviously don't know exactly how STO works under the hood but based on some experience I have modding Star Trek Legacy and Star Wars Empire at War I can say that size in games is typically controlled with a modifier value. They build the model and then tell the game what size to render it at, no reskinning required. So if they wanted they should be able to change the size of any ship in the game very quickly, from slight scale corrections to ludicrous things like making shuttles the size of the Universe Class or vice versa. Adjusting the size of the various Connie parts to fit with one another shouldn't be difficult at all.
You are missing the point and keep going back to official sizes. I say, scr*w those sizes. They are all the CONSTITUTION. It does not matter, forget those sizes and just let the parts be interchangeable.
Does size have any practical matter in this game? I mean we had Universe Class ships flying through the Breach. There was recently a Thread about ships being bigger than DS9.
Umm they have to reskin things and it takes time? Or have you forgotten how bad the windows and stuff look on the Universe class compared to all the other AoY ships? Either way everything is all said and done and all 3 Connies are different ships and they will probably never share skins.
I obviously don't know exactly how STO works under the hood but based on some experience I have modding Star Trek Legacy and Star Wars Empire at War I can say that size in games is typically controlled with a modifier value. They build the model and then tell the game what size to render it at, no reskinning required. So if they wanted they should be able to change the size of any ship in the game very quickly, from slight scale corrections to ludicrous things like making shuttles the size of the Universe Class or vice versa. Adjusting the size of the various Connie parts to fit with one another shouldn't be difficult at all.
Owing to the modularity of the ship tailor, there are most likely other issues at work, too. (For a demonstration of one such issue, try fitting the Defiant pylons on the Gallant hull, and tell me they don't look weird. )
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
You are missing the point and keep going back to official sizes. I say, scr*w those sizes. They are all the CONSTITUTION. It does not matter, forget those sizes and just let the parts be interchangeable.
Does size have any practical matter in this game? I mean we had Universe Class ships flying through the Breach. There was recently a Thread about ships being bigger than DS9.
Umm they have to reskin things and it takes time? Or have you forgotten how bad the windows and stuff look on the Universe class compared to all the other AoY ships? Either way everything is all said and done and all 3 Connies are different ships and they will probably never share skins.
I obviously don't know exactly how STO works under the hood but based on some experience I have modding Star Trek Legacy and Star Wars Empire at War I can say that size in games is typically controlled with a modifier value. They build the model and then tell the game what size to render it at, no reskinning required. So if they wanted they should be able to change the size of any ship in the game very quickly, from slight scale corrections to ludicrous things like making shuttles the size of the Universe Class or vice versa. Adjusting the size of the various Connie parts to fit with one another shouldn't be difficult at all.
From what i know of one of Thomas posts, the engine works in actual meters, that's why the megalithic Sku'din happened... but it's not only that, also the location of the parts, the proportions among different connies are also different, it would be a pain to align them.
You are missing the point and keep going back to official sizes. I say, scr*w those sizes. They are all the CONSTITUTION. It does not matter, forget those sizes and just let the parts be interchangeable.
Does size have any practical matter in this game? I mean we had Universe Class ships flying through the Breach. There was recently a Thread about ships being bigger than DS9.
Umm they have to reskin things and it takes time? Or have you forgotten how bad the windows and stuff look on the Universe class compared to all the other AoY ships? Either way everything is all said and done and all 3 Connies are different ships and they will probably never share skins.
I obviously don't know exactly how STO works under the hood but based on some experience I have modding Star Trek Legacy and Star Wars Empire at War I can say that size in games is typically controlled with a modifier value. They build the model and then tell the game what size to render it at, no reskinning required. So if they wanted they should be able to change the size of any ship in the game very quickly, from slight scale corrections to ludicrous things like making shuttles the size of the Universe Class or vice versa. Adjusting the size of the various Connie parts to fit with one another shouldn't be difficult at all.
From what i know of one of Thomas posts, the engine works in actual meters, that's why the megalithic Sku'din happened... but it's not only that, also the location of the parts, the proportions among different connies are also different, it would be a pain to align them.
Of course aligning them would be a bit of work, but from what I remember the only reason Cryptic has given is the size difference of the ships, which can easily be overcome by tweaking whatever size setting they use. Imo either they want the three ships to be distinct for some reason, or CBS doesn't want us kitbashing them together. I'd probably do something like JJ saucer, TMP neck and pylons, Disco secondary hull, and either Disco or Excalibur nacelles if everything could be used together.
One thing that always bugged me is that the devs talk about "hull differences" as to why the DSC and TOS connies can't share skins. However they add the NX refit with secondary hull?
Can't get much more different than that hull difference. So why again can't we share skins between those connies?
The Disco Connie is scaled differently, it is 1.5x larger than the TOS Connie. The saucer, the secondary hull, the pylons, everything is larger on the Disco version. It shouldn't be difficult to scale the Disco parts down or the TOS parts up, but for some reason they don't seem to want to do that (or they aren't allowed).
Except the vengeance proved that's not really a blocker. So the fact seems to be they just don't want to.
One thing that always bugged me is that the devs talk about "hull differences" as to why the DSC and TOS connies can't share skins. However they add the NX refit with secondary hull?
Can't get much more different than that hull difference. So why again can't we share skins between those connies?
The Disco Connie is scaled differently, it is 1.5x larger than the TOS Connie. The saucer, the secondary hull, the pylons, everything is larger on the Disco version. It shouldn't be difficult to scale the Disco parts down or the TOS parts up, but for some reason they don't seem to want to do that (or they aren't allowed).
Except the vengeance proved that's not really a blocker. So the fact seems to be they just don't want to.
I'm more inclined to that they are not allowed to...
You people do realize that it would have been more of an effort for them to remove the Advanced Phasers from the Discovery Constitution than just leave them there.
And you realize it's not the same ship right? It may look the same, but it's not the same.
Hence why the question is reasonable.
Function wise, they're about as similar as the new Intrepid and the MM ships are to each other.
One thing that always bugged me is that the devs talk about "hull differences" as to why the DSC and TOS connies can't share skins. However they add the NX refit with secondary hull?
Can't get much more different than that hull difference. So why again can't we share skins between those connies?
The Disco Connie is scaled differently, it is 1.5x larger than the TOS Connie. The saucer, the secondary hull, the pylons, everything is larger on the Disco version. It shouldn't be difficult to scale the Disco parts down or the TOS parts up, but for some reason they don't seem to want to do that (or they aren't allowed).
Except the vengeance proved that's not really a blocker. So the fact seems to be they just don't want to.
I'm more inclined to that they are not allowed to...
That's a reasonable answer, though the way they've explained it before on stream doesn't hint at that being the real reason.
Either way, it's more just an annoyance to me.
I gotta question what the problem with the new Defiant's turn rate is when it is going to have pilot maneuvers. No they don't help you turn faster,
Actually, Pilot Team *does* make you turn faster. My point wasn't necessarily that I can't work with a 15+ turn rate, though, but ere was wondering why they did so, since -- as everyone else has mentioned already too -- the difference between 15.5 and 17 is negligible, of course.
I was specifically talking about pilot maneuvers. Those are the rolls and forward/reverse thrusts a full pilot ship can do, which the Valiant doesn't have, but the new Defiant will have.
Ah yes, those. And they are great! And I would definitely pay like $50 for the new Defiant, when offered standalone.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
You are missing the point and keep going back to official sizes. I say, scr*w those sizes. They are all the CONSTITUTION. It does not matter, forget those sizes and just let the parts be interchangeable.
Does size have any practical matter in this game? I mean we had Universe Class ships flying through the Breach. There was recently a Thread about ships being bigger than DS9.
Umm they have to reskin things and it takes time? Or have you forgotten how bad the windows and stuff look on the Universe class compared to all the other AoY ships? Either way everything is all said and done and all 3 Connies are different ships and they will probably never share skins.
I obviously don't know exactly how STO works under the hood but based on some experience I have modding Star Trek Legacy and Star Wars Empire at War I can say that size in games is typically controlled with a modifier value. They build the model and then tell the game what size to render it at, no reskinning required. So if they wanted they should be able to change the size of any ship in the game very quickly, from slight scale corrections to ludicrous things like making shuttles the size of the Universe Class or vice versa. Adjusting the size of the various Connie parts to fit with one another shouldn't be difficult at all.
I can't speak either because I don't know the details...all I'm presenting is examples that I've personally seen. The Universe uses the same skin as the all the other 25th century versions of the temporal ships from the AoY pack and if you look at the windows on the Universe you can obviously see they're stretched and not custom fit to the much larger ship.
I could be wrong but by what I've seen it seems to me to make things right and look good it would take time to go through all of that instead instead of just a scale like in the games you mentioned.
Or it could be as simple as selling 3 ships is more profitable...safe bet there was a overlap of people who had the TOS Connie but wanted the Discovery Connie because of the hangar...and or because it was a MW...or the classic phasers that turned out to be one of the best weapons in game.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
You are missing the point and keep going back to official sizes. I say, scr*w those sizes. They are all the CONSTITUTION. It does not matter, forget those sizes and just let the parts be interchangeable.
Does size have any practical matter in this game? I mean we had Universe Class ships flying through the Breach. There was recently a Thread about ships being bigger than DS9.
Umm they have to reskin things and it takes time? Or have you forgotten how bad the windows and stuff look on the Universe class compared to all the other AoY ships? Either way everything is all said and done and all 3 Connies are different ships and they will probably never share skins.
I obviously don't know exactly how STO works under the hood but based on some experience I have modding Star Trek Legacy and Star Wars Empire at War I can say that size in games is typically controlled with a modifier value. They build the model and then tell the game what size to render it at, no reskinning required. So if they wanted they should be able to change the size of any ship in the game very quickly, from slight scale corrections to ludicrous things like making shuttles the size of the Universe Class or vice versa. Adjusting the size of the various Connie parts to fit with one another shouldn't be difficult at all.
I can't speak either because I don't know the details...all I'm presenting is examples that I've personally seen. The Universe uses the same skin as the all the other 25th century versions of the temporal ships from the AoY pack and if you look at the windows on the Universe you can obviously see they're stretched and not custom fit to the much larger ship.
The windows looking stretched out matches how the Universe Class looked in it's one on-screen appearance though, so it's probably intended to look like that.
Seeing the Verity from the top does make it look closer to what I may have preferred over the initial release of the Odyssey. The only thing lacking is that the two necks don't meet the saucer at it's outer edge. As they do in the winning concept art. Though I expect that was impractical if it's to mix well with previously established customizations.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Seeing the Verity from the top does make it look closer to what I may have preferred over the initial release of the Odyssey. The only thing lacking is that the two necks don't meet the saucer at it's outer edge. As they do in the winning concept art. Though I expect that was impractical if it's to mix well with previously established customizations.
Might be able to get closer to that look with one of the smaller saucers, I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks kitbashed.
Guests: systems designer Jette Leavens and lead ship and UI artist Thomas Marrone
So, previous 2 streams crashed due to technical issues extra hard, Mike contacted the support and they confirmed that there's some issue with streaming software that's creating constant problems and they found it and attempted to fix it.
Idea for bundle was initially pitched by Thomas.
Pack was used as a valid reason to dedicate time to the new ship skins and include some more obscure ones, like Phase II Constitution.
Thomas thinks Warship Voyager is ugly, but Mike pressed it through so that people would stop asking for it.
They had no idea what to do for Galaxy before Clear Skies called.
Thomas also designed ship's user manual. He wishes that he have time do it for more ships.
Voyager, TOS Constitution and Discovery were easiest new skins to come up with.
Thomas wanted to do Odyssey that's closer for original competition sketch for some time.
Problem for designing stats for new ships was that they needed to be newand not invalidating old ships, but still recognizable.
F.e. Legendary Voyager still had to be part of science lineage.
Jette wanted to give Sovereign pilot manoeuvres. She was forbidden.
Chat: "Pilot ship x when?
(Tech team was NOT able to fix the issue. Stream crashed.
Yeah, not much, but better than last time. Also, apparently it only affects STO streams, people say that other Cryptic streams seem fine.
I'm glad a sovvy with Pilot stations was nixed. I mean... TNG is the one trek series without a dedicated helmsman char (well DS9 didn't really eaither but... space station)
Thomas thinks Warship Voyager is ugly, but Mike pressed it through so that people would stop asking for it.
Meanwhile, the FAR more requested Science Ship.. the T6 Nova continues to be ignored.
Brilliant.
I suspect that they knew there would be a Voyager/Intrepid (because "hero ships"), and then the "we have to do Warship Voyager to shut them up" happened when they had to decide what skin to make for it.
Thomas thinks Warship Voyager is ugly, but Mike pressed it through so that people would stop asking for it.
Meanwhile, the FAR more requested Science Ship.. the T6 Nova continues to be ignored.
Brilliant.
It was going to be an Intrepid regardless, Mike just pressed that it be the Warship version. Jette then decided it needed to follow the previous in-game Intrepid stat lineage instead of being a full Warship like it was designed to be (a decision I HIGHLY disagree with).
"The Kelvin Timeline Heavy Command Cruiser [T6] can now use any of the standard Federation bridges, in addition to the "Kelvin Constitution" interior."
Been asking for this for months now! Thank you Cryptic! I can throw my Galaxy interior onto my baby now. And also thank you for the bundle of ships. Me and couple friends are getting the cheaper option, but please sell them piece mail in time. About 90% of people I know just cant afford the price tag but would love to buy like one of the ships.
It's very disappointing how little tac focus the warship Voyager has. In fact... I'd say tac is the furthest thing from that ship's current design philosophy. They should have made it a transforming destroyer like the Dyson ships
Comments
Ah yes, those.
The current state of the Exchange suggests that, unless you've got oodles of EC already, you will need to shell out $200 for the R&D ship either way. This way, you get it account-wide, along with 9 other ships.
While the former is plausible, the latter is highly unlikely.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I hope so too! I like to see the sale price for a month myself, so all pay cycles can work through.
And yet here I am.
12th Century Swedish knight turned Star Trek Captain
Umm they have to reskin things and it takes time? Or have you forgotten how bad the windows and stuff look on the Universe class compared to all the other AoY ships? Either way everything is all said and done and all 3 Connies are different ships and they will probably never share skins.
How is it not as OP? The main ship I see you talk about is the Defiant...sure maybe it doesn't have the bridge layout you want but EPTW III is great and the 5/3 sure as hell destroys the 4/3/1. Plus a lot of these other ships are huge improvements, only two ships that I would say are downgrades are of course the two R&D ships...they still want people gambling on the originals. Other than those 2 everything else is pretty much a nice step up.
Me personally I'm not even worrying much about the Connies (I'd probably fly the Discovery one though)...for me I'm drooling over the Odyssey and the Intrepid and you seem to really like the Defiant. You're the only judge on if it's worth the value to you...but I think to judge this pack on one or two ships that you may or may not even has much interest in isn't doing it justice.
I obviously don't know exactly how STO works under the hood but based on some experience I have modding Star Trek Legacy and Star Wars Empire at War I can say that size in games is typically controlled with a modifier value. They build the model and then tell the game what size to render it at, no reskinning required. So if they wanted they should be able to change the size of any ship in the game very quickly, from slight scale corrections to ludicrous things like making shuttles the size of the Universe Class or vice versa. Adjusting the size of the various Connie parts to fit with one another shouldn't be difficult at all.
Owing to the modularity of the ship tailor, there are most likely other issues at work, too. (For a demonstration of one such issue, try fitting the Defiant pylons on the Gallant hull, and tell me they don't look weird.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
From what i know of one of Thomas posts, the engine works in actual meters, that's why the megalithic Sku'din happened... but it's not only that, also the location of the parts, the proportions among different connies are also different, it would be a pain to align them.
Of course aligning them would be a bit of work, but from what I remember the only reason Cryptic has given is the size difference of the ships, which can easily be overcome by tweaking whatever size setting they use. Imo either they want the three ships to be distinct for some reason, or CBS doesn't want us kitbashing them together. I'd probably do something like JJ saucer, TMP neck and pylons, Disco secondary hull, and either Disco or Excalibur nacelles if everything could be used together.
Except the vengeance proved that's not really a blocker. So the fact seems to be they just don't want to.
I'm more inclined to that they are not allowed to...
And you realize it's not the same ship right? It may look the same, but it's not the same.
Hence why the question is reasonable.
Function wise, they're about as similar as the new Intrepid and the MM ships are to each other.
That's a reasonable answer, though the way they've explained it before on stream doesn't hint at that being the real reason.
Either way, it's more just an annoyance to me.
What if it's $120 or $90? Around that price range for 1 ship from the pack? Actual lock box ship is $120 retail, granted you also get a lobi outfit, phoenix box gun and a T3 and T5 ship. 4 of the T6 ships models were exclusive to gamble boxes and 1 was to lobi. You get all of the previous traits, associated gear and consoles and the new trait... and skins. I dont think if they were to sell this it will be $50 range. You have a ship that would make a Fed 3 pack ship bundle obsolete, thats $60 right there for a ship bundle that would be killed. I think if they sell it as a single... it'll be around $100 at the low end.
I can't speak either because I don't know the details...all I'm presenting is examples that I've personally seen. The Universe uses the same skin as the all the other 25th century versions of the temporal ships from the AoY pack and if you look at the windows on the Universe you can obviously see they're stretched and not custom fit to the much larger ship.
I could be wrong but by what I've seen it seems to me to make things right and look good it would take time to go through all of that instead instead of just a scale like in the games you mentioned.
Or it could be as simple as selling 3 ships is more profitable...safe bet there was a overlap of people who had the TOS Connie but wanted the Discovery Connie because of the hangar...and or because it was a MW...or the classic phasers that turned out to be one of the best weapons in game.
The windows looking stretched out matches how the Universe Class looked in it's one on-screen appearance though, so it's probably intended to look like that.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
we'll see if there is a zen sale/charge bonus.
Might be able to get closer to that look with one of the smaller saucers, I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks kitbashed.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Comments below from reddit:
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Meanwhile, the FAR more requested Science Ship.. the T6 Nova continues to be ignored.
Brilliant.
I suspect that they knew there would be a Voyager/Intrepid (because "hero ships"), and then the "we have to do Warship Voyager to shut them up" happened when they had to decide what skin to make for it.
Not "ha! We'll deny them the Nova again!"
It was going to be an Intrepid regardless, Mike just pressed that it be the Warship version. Jette then decided it needed to follow the previous in-game Intrepid stat lineage instead of being a full Warship like it was designed to be (a decision I HIGHLY disagree with).
Been asking for this for months now!