Apparently the parasites were supposed to be the first wave of the Borg with the Borg having an insectoid appearance instead of the cybernetic appearance we know and love. The insectoid look was replaced by the cybernetic look due to budget constraints.
There is a few novels that deal with them. The parasites are Trill Symbiotes that were genetically modified due to trying to find a cure to stop a deadly plague that affected symbiotes. Then there is the STO explanation that they are Iconian agents used to infect the Vaadwaur.
Well, the original idea was kinda like halfway between the Goa'uld from Stargate and the bugs from Starship Troopers. It's why that incident with the missing colonies doesn't match later Borg behavior. Connecting the Borg was a retcon. It was actually the Parasites in the episode as written.
I wanted to share a couple of Disco-related fan explanations I have read recently that I like:
1) Disco-tech: the issue of newer shows looking more advanced than older shows is nothing new and we all know the real life explanation. But for those that enjoy having an in universe explanation someone suggested something similar to what happened in the show Battlestar Galactica. Humans were faced with an enemy that could take over their advanced computers, so they had to downgrade to older/more simplistic tech to defeat them. If the galactic powers in Trek had to fight an enemy that could take over the tech on their ships, it could theoretically cause them to revert to a less vulnerable type of tech going from DSC to TOS eras.
2) Klingon appearance: Enterprise already decided to explain away the TOS klingons with the augment virus. So one theory I liked was that to "cure" the effects of the virus and bring back the natural ridged look, the klingons began their own genetic engineering and went a bit too far/overcompensated, resulting in the more "animalistic" look we see in discovery.
Neither of these are "perfect" explanations, but I like the general idea of both of them and wouldn't mind seeing something like these explored in novels.
To be fair, they're showing us exactly why the spore drive "didn't exist" later on. It appears (from the preview) that S2 Ep5 will focus on the impact of Discovery's spore-drive use and very likely show us that there is a VERY good reason that the drive was confined to history, probably classified, and never spoken of again.
As for Klingon culture.... sorry, this might be an unpopular opinion but I'm enjoying seeing them do something other than constantly bellow about 'honor' and 'battle'. TNG onward Klingons were, for the most part (emphasis, I am NOT saying they were always potrayed that way) a prime example of 'planet of hats'.
I know the developments, but in the end it's a "dream episode". We had instantaneous travel over all dimensions and now we don't - why come up with this story in the first place? Prequel stories are doomed to be 'insignificant' in one way or the other since of course nothing DSC shows us did exist in TOS and thus none of the characters kept anything classified or lied, they didn't know of it because it wasn't written back then (same with S31, there is no S31 in TOS because it didn't exist IRL - that's my problem with retcons, they never feel right). If you prequel you have to limit yourself to things that make sense, otherwise you go the "everything is classified" route, which is synonymous with "It was a dream" and thus insignificant.
That is not what makes a dream episode.
Is the time-displaced Wormhole to Romulan space a dream episode because it didn't pan out? Did we not learn something about the characters, did we not learn about a Romulan Commander and his unique relationship he formed with the Voyager?
Just because Marritza was murdered in the end, did we not learn something new about the Cardassian Occupation and the diverse Cardassian mindsets involved in it, did Kira not grow as a person from the experience?
The Spore Drive is a vehicle to tell a story, how it affects the people and the world around it. The Spore Drive might go away, but it still left something behind - people altered by its use, by the knowledge they gained.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
DSC might not violate anything specifically, but it's expansion feels very unnecessary. The whole Spock schebang is not something that was missing, but it's hand-holding to piggyback on TOS instead just itself. The spore drive is unnecessary since it won't exist later on - so why put it in a prequel story?
The visuals are not an issue for me personally. I dislike most but not all of their artistic choices and personally would have applauded a greater respect for the old sets (again, if you can't then don't make a prequel, just make a sequel) but I know that not everythimg production based has actual in-universe ramifications, to me Klingons still look like in TNG for instance. The culture DSC chooses for them however is very much not how my headcanon went and thus I disapprove.
To be fair, they're showing us exactly why the spore drive "didn't exist" later on. It appears (from the preview) that S2 Ep5 will focus on the impact of Discovery's spore-drive use and very likely show us that there is a VERY good reason that the drive was confined to history, probably classified, and never spoken of again.
As for Klingon culture.... sorry, this might be an unpopular opinion but I'm enjoying seeing them do something other than constantly bellow about 'honor' and 'battle'. TNG onward Klingons were, for the most part (emphasis, I am NOT saying they were always potrayed that way) a prime example of 'planet of hats'.
"Culture"?? sure, they stopped "Bellowing" and instead, they just murder for the sake of murdering without even that amount of depth. (basically removed everything but the negative stereotypes to make them even MORE two dim-wait, to make them ONE dimensional baddies, each and every one. without exception.) Then adding an incredibly lame excuse for putting the latex hair on the rubber masks? This is your idea of it NOT being planet of hats?
(Faked valley accent) "What-EVAR.."
Yes, they turned them into TOS Klingons with rrrrrridges. I'm sorry, Patrick, but the whole "space biker Vikings bellowing endlessly about honor" is the retcon. They never acted like that in the original series - the closest was in "Day of the Dove", when Kang came to the pragmatic realization that the only way to get his ship out of the situation they were in was to cooperate with Kirk. Briefly. (Even that required the citing of a Klingon proverb - "Only a fool fights in a burning house.")
This is a dumb belief by its very nature. It would be like saying that if we got TNG first, we should have never gotten TOS because it was a "prequel"
Having stories that fill in the various gaps in the timeline isn't dumb, its actually quite good because it actually fleshes out the universe rather then continue star trek's march toward widening an ever wider ocean, while doing little to add depth to it.
Going to the past rather than the future doesn't automagically add depth, especially when what you're adding is completely nonsensical and has no coherent relationship to anything that comes after. Doubly problematic when you set it immediately before another series, and involve characters from that series...who will all apparently make a death pact to never under any circumstances breathe a word about any of the world shaking events or people of the last few years.
And yes, that is the problem with prequels. The audience all ready knows the 'future', and Discovery does absolutely nothing to 'flesh out' that future.
This is a dumb belief by its very nature. It would be like saying that if we got TNG first, we should have never gotten TOS because it was a "prequel"
Having stories that fill in the various gaps in the timeline isn't dumb, its actually quite good because it actually fleshes out the universe rather then continue star trek's march toward widening an ever wider ocean, while doing little to add depth to it.
Going to the past rather than the future doesn't automagically add depth, especially when what you're adding is completely nonsensical and has no coherent relationship to anything that comes after. Doubly problematic when you set it immediately before another series, and involve characters from that series...who will all apparently make a death pact to never under any circumstances breathe a word about any of the world shaking events or people of the last few years.
And yes, that is the problem with prequels. The audience all ready knows the 'future', and Discovery does absolutely nothing to 'flesh out' that future.
Then there is the problem that there is no reference to any of the events of Discovery in any other Star Trek series. The Battle of Axanar, the Earth-Romulan War, the Eugenics War, and World War III would have been good prequels since they have been mentioned in other Star Trek series. If we ignore the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise, then it was a decent prequel unlike Discovery.
It seems like the events of Discovery were completely erased since we see the effects of the Earth-Romulan War in the Balance of Terror episode in TOS with Ensign Stiles displaying his hatred towards Romulans from the events of a war that happened 100 years ago and yet there is no hatred towards the Klingons from the Klingon War that happened about 10 years ago. It would be easier for CBS to just say that due to the Temporal Cold War in the 22nd Century, the timeline we are used to was changed. Introducing new content like holographic technology and then explain why TOS doesn't have it is worst than just making it part of the background. The main problem with Discovery is that it doesn't know if it wants to be a prequel or a sequel.
My favourite part about Voqs 'infiltration' is still that he started spouting paroles THE SECOND he realized who he is. He doesn't even wait until he's alone, he immediately announces him being a spy in the midst of people.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Then there is the problem that there is no reference to any of the events of Discovery in any other Star Trek series.
Who cares? Discovery is 106-120 years before TNG, DS9, and VOY, and over 100 years AFTER ENT. How often do we talk abut events from 1899-1913 in the modern day? Rarely.
Those other events only get bought up in the series when they are relevant to the current matter, not as just casual conversation. Why would the events of Discovery be any different?
Not to mention its extremely poor writing to constrict yourself to only the limited handful of events that were made up when the series first began.
And it is less than 10 years before TOS. If there was a Klingon War less than 10 years before TOS, then they would be still talking about it in TOS. We are still talking about World War II and its villains that happened 75 years ago.
and yet there is no hatred towards the Klingons from the Klingon War that happened about 10 years ago.
Except that massive Federation vs Klingon Empire cold war that is going on during TOS that 4 of the 5 episodes with Klingon are in are about, and influences how they act in the other episode.
Except there is only the fear that the cold war will explode into a war at some point not the hatred that is caused from killing a person's family. There should be far more people similar to Ensign Stiles in Balance of Terror that are still hurting from the Klingon War and yet the only real instance of hatred towards Klingons is Kirk due to some Klingons killing his son. So either the Klingon War never happened in TOS, Q snapped his fingers to make everyone forget, or someone traveled to the past to stop the Klingon War from ever happening.
Of course, there is also the new Business Model (BM for short) in entertainment:
Defecate profusely upon the built-in fan base then cast said built-in fan base as villains when they speak out against said defecation.
Of course, there is also the new Business Model (BM for short) in entertainment:
Defecate profusely upon the built-in fan base then cast said built-in fan base as villains when they speak out against said defecation.
that's pretty much not a new thing. What's changed is that it's been mixed with an insular culture where the paid critics are seen as more important than the paying audience. (Which is only a moderately new thing) and the showrunners, producers and some of the cast get wrapped up in the side effect of icons like TOS, without realizing the how and why of those side effects. (TOS did good stories FIRST, the social activism was accomplished by doing good shows, not the other way around.)
But it has become far more common in recent years. There is a reason why "Get Woke Go Broke" became such a popular meme last year. With companies trying to appease a certain group of people, they alienate their customers or fans. The certain group of people will not buy the company's product or not enough of them will buy the product to counteract the amount of business lost due to betrayed customers that take their business elsewhere.
I wonder with the Star Trek: Section 31 show coming up, if they could tap Peter Weller to play Adr. Marcus again.
I mean he had years to be an evil TRIBBLE before Kelvin, and was likely already knowledgeable if not in S31 by the DIS timeframe.
Admiral Marcus is from a different reality so there is no reason why he would be part of Section 31, Admiral, or even alive. He could have died on some mission before the Klingon War or during the Klingon War. Just look at the Tapestry episode in TNG. Because Picard got into a fight, he became Captain, but when he stopped the fight, he became a lowly crew member. So it is likely that the choices that Admiral Marcus made in his life never happened in the Prime Universe. After all, the Federation was at relative peace for at least the past 20 years until the Klingon War while Admiral Marcus' reality was preparing for an enemy from the 24th Century.
I wonder with the Star Trek: Section 31 show coming up, if they could tap Peter Weller to play Adr. Marcus again.
I mean he had years to be an evil TRIBBLE before Kelvin, and was likely already knowledgeable if not in S31 by the DIS timeframe.
Though we'll very likely never see any KT exclusive characters, Marcus and Robau are the two I'd like to see most in DSC.
The Klingon War is in 2256 and ID is in 2259, so Marcus (who is Commander Starfleet in ID) is unlikely to be anything less than an Admiral 3 years earlier and he spent ID itching for a fight with Klingons, seeing his Prime counterpart in an actual war with them would be great. Also, seeing as the Dreadnought Class is basically a hybrid of the Cardenas and Crossfield classes it'd be interesting to see if Marcus had anything to do with those. Marcus is also the guy who told Pike to join Starfleet.
Robau was very much like Georgiou for me. They both made a big impact in their very short scenes before dying horribly. He'd have made it back to Earth in the Prime Timeline (in order for Kirk to be born in Iowa) around the same time Georgiou was picking up Saru.
Rights issues and the unstable future of the KT films in general will ensure that never happens and they already lost something by not having the same actors for Sarek, Pike, Amanda, and Spock (nothing against Mount here his Pike is quite like Greenwood's and Hunter's but the others pale in comparison to their similarly aged KT actors) they've already lost something.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Time travel certainly makes everything more complicated. So if the Red Angel is a human that is trying to change the timeline to save all life on the universe and it saved Burnham as a child by informing Spock of his location, then Burnham was killed or severely injured in the Red Angel's timeline. So the question is if the Red Angel's timeline the timeline that we have been used to for the past 50 years and who the Red Angel is.
If Burnham was killed in the TOS timeline, then almost everything in Discovery could have not happened. There would have been no attempted mutiny on the Shenzhou or T'Kuvma being killed by Burnham. Which could have resulted in there being no Klingon War. Without the Klingon War, there would have been no incentive for Starfleet to create the Spore Drive or give lots of power to Section 31. Empress Georgiou would not have become part of Section 31 without Burnham bringing the Empress back to Burnham's universe. So almost all of the differences between TOS and Discovery could be explained by the Red Angel going back in time and saving Burnham as a child.
Now as far as who is the Red Angel, the latest episode certainly destroyed the Iconian theory. I had a weird thought that it might be Picard. Picard found the Red Angel suit in some advanced ancient alien ruins. It could be T'Kon Empire technology for all we know. It would be a way to tie Discovery and the new Picard series together. If it is some other human, then it is either some human that found an ancient alien artifact or someone that is from a few hundred years in the future.
Then there is the aliens that modified Discovery's probe and inserted some type of code in Airiam. If the aliens that modified Discovery's probe caused the destruction of life in the galaxy, then the Red Angel could be partially responsible for it due to leaving a temporal rift that caused Airiam to get infected. Of course, this is dependent on whether the Red Bursts are caused by the Red Angel and not enemies and if the program that infected Airiam was created by the aliens that the Red Angel is trying to stop.
There would have been no attempted mutiny on the Shenzhou or T'Kuvma being killed by Burnham. Which could have resulted in there being no Klingon War.
This is incorrect. T'Kuvma lured Starfleet with the intent of starting a war. Regardless of what Burnham did, the war would have happened. Her actions had zero impact on the war starting or not.
is episode 1, season 1 still even a topic? *snip*
It is a topic because in one possible timeline, Burnham would have been killed when she ran away from home, probably after a logic extremist attack, in an effort to protect her family. Unfortunately, Vulcan is not a safe planet for children. Or, really, anyone, given by what predators live in its forests.
But this did not happen, due to time travel shenanigans.
But it makes some people wonder how that alternate timeline would have worked out. So it's completely irrelevant what anyone in Starfleet knew. It's really about what we, as viewers, know about the universe.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
That argument makes...zero sense to the story. regardless of what the Klingons would have done or not, Burnham is still responsible for Burnham's actions. (or rather, her writers are responsible, but that's out of character information.)
I'm not sure how it would have affected the timeline.
Sarek seems to be the only being with any knowledge of the Klingons prior to the Battle of the Binary Stars. Starfleet Command, Starfleet Intelligence, even Section 31 seems to know absolutely nothing about the Klingons, which leads to the conflict. So, since no one would be in a position to ask Sarek about the Klingons, it makes sense that events would play out exactly the same. The only difference is that Burnham would not be around to suggest taking T'Kuvma hostage might end the conflict (which, turns out to be a pointless suggestion, since she murders T'Kuvma anyway).
is episode 1, season 1 still even a topic? Okay, Som, I'll bite, how in hell would anyone on starfleet's side know this??
Once again Pat you completely and utterly fail to read the post you are responding to, or the post that post is responding to, just so you can make another unnecessarily long rant about something else entirely unrelated to what either post was talking about.
Starkos mentioned that without Burnham the war would have never started. I pointed out that it would have because that was T'Kuvma's goal from the beginning. None of us made any mention, nor was there any attempt to debate, what the Federation's in-universe view of how the war started was.
I stated that the war might have not happened not that it wouldn't have happened. We don't know how events would have played out if Burnham wasn't around to attempt her mutiny or kill T'Kuvma. All we do know is that Burnham had a major effect on the outcome of the battle since she killed T'Kuvma. So Burnham's actions during the Battle of the Binary Stars changed the timeline even if the Klingon War happened in the original timeline.
We don't know how T'Kuvma would have reacted during the Klingon War if he was still alive. Part of the reason for T'Kuvma's War on the Federation was as a means to unify the Klingon Houses. So if he survived, then he might have unified the Klingon Houses and become Emperor instead of L'Rell.
I stated that the war might have not happened not that it wouldn't have happened. We don't know how events would have played out if Burnham wasn't around to attempt her mutiny or kill T'Kuvma. All we do know is that Burnham had a major effect on the outcome of the battle since she killed T'Kuvma. So Burnham's actions during the Battle of the Binary Stars changed the timeline even if the Klingon War happened in the original timeline.
We don't know how T'Kuvma would have reacted during the Klingon War if he was still alive. Part of the reason for T'Kuvma's War on the Federation was as a means to unify the Klingon Houses. So if he survived, then he might have unified the Klingon Houses and become Emperor instead of L'Rell.
And I agree. The point is and was, Burnham's actions didn't cause the war, so the war would have happened regardless of if she was alive or not.
But we don't know that. We don't know if Georgiou or someone else would have come up with some plan to stop the war from happening due to Burnham's actions. Burnham forced them down a certain path which resulted in war. All we can say is that the timeline was changed because Burnham wasn't killed or severely injured as a child.
I stated that the war might have not happened not that it wouldn't have happened. We don't know how events would have played out if Burnham wasn't around to attempt her mutiny or kill T'Kuvma. All we do know is that Burnham had a major effect on the outcome of the battle since she killed T'Kuvma. So Burnham's actions during the Battle of the Binary Stars changed the timeline even if the Klingon War happened in the original timeline.
We don't know how T'Kuvma would have reacted during the Klingon War if he was still alive. Part of the reason for T'Kuvma's War on the Federation was as a means to unify the Klingon Houses. So if he survived, then he might have unified the Klingon Houses and become Emperor instead of L'Rell.
And I agree. The point is and was, Burnham's actions didn't cause the war, so the war would have happened regardless of if she was alive or not.
But we don't know that. We don't know if Georgiou or someone else would have come up with some plan to stop the war from happening due to Burnham's actions. Burnham forced them down a certain path which resulted in war. All we can say is that the timeline was changed because Burnham wasn't killed or severely injured as a child.
There are plenty of potential ripple effects - if Burnham is as good as the show implies, then Georgiou might have had a different first officer aboard the Shenzou that was less qualified, and maybe the ship, or Georgiou, wouldn ahve been lost earlier. Good still lead to the war, since there doesn't seem to be anything obvious that would alter T'Kuvmas goals.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
what forests? vulcan is a desert world - deserts don't usually have enough trees to make a full forest, if they have trees at all
Mono-climatic planets are common in science fiction, but not really realistic. And desert planets do not really seem as a likely place to support a population of billions of humanoids.
What I don't know is if the Discovery scenes on Vulcan are playing during the regional autumn, or if
Vulcan leaves are usually red/brown. I suspect the latter. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have more deserts than Earth, or no deserts. But it's simply not all desert, all the time.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
1) Disco-tech: the issue of newer shows looking more advanced than older shows is nothing new and we all know the real life explanation. But for those that enjoy having an in universe explanation someone suggested something similar to what happened in the show Battlestar Galactica. Humans were faced with an enemy that could take over their advanced computers, so they had to downgrade to older/more simplistic tech to defeat them. If the galactic powers in Trek had to fight an enemy that could take over the tech on their ships, it could theoretically cause them to revert to a less vulnerable type of tech going from DSC to TOS eras.
2) Klingon appearance: Enterprise already decided to explain away the TOS klingons with the augment virus. So one theory I liked was that to "cure" the effects of the virus and bring back the natural ridged look, the klingons began their own genetic engineering and went a bit too far/overcompensated, resulting in the more "animalistic" look we see in discovery.
Neither of these are "perfect" explanations, but I like the general idea of both of them and wouldn't mind seeing something like these explored in novels.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Is the time-displaced Wormhole to Romulan space a dream episode because it didn't pan out? Did we not learn something about the characters, did we not learn about a Romulan Commander and his unique relationship he formed with the Voyager?
Just because Marritza was murdered in the end, did we not learn something new about the Cardassian Occupation and the diverse Cardassian mindsets involved in it, did Kira not grow as a person from the experience?
The Spore Drive is a vehicle to tell a story, how it affects the people and the world around it. The Spore Drive might go away, but it still left something behind - people altered by its use, by the knowledge they gained.
Going to the past rather than the future doesn't automagically add depth, especially when what you're adding is completely nonsensical and has no coherent relationship to anything that comes after. Doubly problematic when you set it immediately before another series, and involve characters from that series...who will all apparently make a death pact to never under any circumstances breathe a word about any of the world shaking events or people of the last few years.
And yes, that is the problem with prequels. The audience all ready knows the 'future', and Discovery does absolutely nothing to 'flesh out' that future.
Then there is the problem that there is no reference to any of the events of Discovery in any other Star Trek series. The Battle of Axanar, the Earth-Romulan War, the Eugenics War, and World War III would have been good prequels since they have been mentioned in other Star Trek series. If we ignore the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise, then it was a decent prequel unlike Discovery.
It seems like the events of Discovery were completely erased since we see the effects of the Earth-Romulan War in the Balance of Terror episode in TOS with Ensign Stiles displaying his hatred towards Romulans from the events of a war that happened 100 years ago and yet there is no hatred towards the Klingons from the Klingon War that happened about 10 years ago. It would be easier for CBS to just say that due to the Temporal Cold War in the 22nd Century, the timeline we are used to was changed. Introducing new content like holographic technology and then explain why TOS doesn't have it is worst than just making it part of the background. The main problem with Discovery is that it doesn't know if it wants to be a prequel or a sequel.
I for one, would happily welcome our new Iconian Rulers, but i think this would be to cool to be in Disco
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
And it is less than 10 years before TOS. If there was a Klingon War less than 10 years before TOS, then they would be still talking about it in TOS. We are still talking about World War II and its villains that happened 75 years ago.
Except there is only the fear that the cold war will explode into a war at some point not the hatred that is caused from killing a person's family. There should be far more people similar to Ensign Stiles in Balance of Terror that are still hurting from the Klingon War and yet the only real instance of hatred towards Klingons is Kirk due to some Klingons killing his son. So either the Klingon War never happened in TOS, Q snapped his fingers to make everyone forget, or someone traveled to the past to stop the Klingon War from ever happening.
Defecate profusely upon the built-in fan base then cast said built-in fan base as villains when they speak out against said defecation.
But it has become far more common in recent years. There is a reason why "Get Woke Go Broke" became such a popular meme last year. With companies trying to appease a certain group of people, they alienate their customers or fans. The certain group of people will not buy the company's product or not enough of them will buy the product to counteract the amount of business lost due to betrayed customers that take their business elsewhere.
sounds like you've jumped completely off the deep end with speculation based on speculation.
My character Tsin'xing
I am not certain to whom you refer, or if you refer to the last several posts as a whole.
My character Tsin'xing
Though, I disagree that something demonstrable can be reasonably be called speculation.
My character Tsin'xing
Admiral Marcus is from a different reality so there is no reason why he would be part of Section 31, Admiral, or even alive. He could have died on some mission before the Klingon War or during the Klingon War. Just look at the Tapestry episode in TNG. Because Picard got into a fight, he became Captain, but when he stopped the fight, he became a lowly crew member. So it is likely that the choices that Admiral Marcus made in his life never happened in the Prime Universe. After all, the Federation was at relative peace for at least the past 20 years until the Klingon War while Admiral Marcus' reality was preparing for an enemy from the 24th Century.
Though we'll very likely never see any KT exclusive characters, Marcus and Robau are the two I'd like to see most in DSC.
The Klingon War is in 2256 and ID is in 2259, so Marcus (who is Commander Starfleet in ID) is unlikely to be anything less than an Admiral 3 years earlier and he spent ID itching for a fight with Klingons, seeing his Prime counterpart in an actual war with them would be great. Also, seeing as the Dreadnought Class is basically a hybrid of the Cardenas and Crossfield classes it'd be interesting to see if Marcus had anything to do with those. Marcus is also the guy who told Pike to join Starfleet.
Robau was very much like Georgiou for me. They both made a big impact in their very short scenes before dying horribly. He'd have made it back to Earth in the Prime Timeline (in order for Kirk to be born in Iowa) around the same time Georgiou was picking up Saru.
Rights issues and the unstable future of the KT films in general will ensure that never happens and they already lost something by not having the same actors for Sarek, Pike, Amanda, and Spock (nothing against Mount here his Pike is quite like Greenwood's and Hunter's but the others pale in comparison to their similarly aged KT actors) they've already lost something.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
If Burnham was killed in the TOS timeline, then almost everything in Discovery could have not happened. There would have been no attempted mutiny on the Shenzhou or T'Kuvma being killed by Burnham. Which could have resulted in there being no Klingon War. Without the Klingon War, there would have been no incentive for Starfleet to create the Spore Drive or give lots of power to Section 31. Empress Georgiou would not have become part of Section 31 without Burnham bringing the Empress back to Burnham's universe. So almost all of the differences between TOS and Discovery could be explained by the Red Angel going back in time and saving Burnham as a child.
Now as far as who is the Red Angel, the latest episode certainly destroyed the Iconian theory. I had a weird thought that it might be Picard. Picard found the Red Angel suit in some advanced ancient alien ruins. It could be T'Kon Empire technology for all we know. It would be a way to tie Discovery and the new Picard series together. If it is some other human, then it is either some human that found an ancient alien artifact or someone that is from a few hundred years in the future.
Then there is the aliens that modified Discovery's probe and inserted some type of code in Airiam. If the aliens that modified Discovery's probe caused the destruction of life in the galaxy, then the Red Angel could be partially responsible for it due to leaving a temporal rift that caused Airiam to get infected. Of course, this is dependent on whether the Red Bursts are caused by the Red Angel and not enemies and if the program that infected Airiam was created by the aliens that the Red Angel is trying to stop.
But this did not happen, due to time travel shenanigans.
But it makes some people wonder how that alternate timeline would have worked out. So it's completely irrelevant what anyone in Starfleet knew. It's really about what we, as viewers, know about the universe.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Sarek seems to be the only being with any knowledge of the Klingons prior to the Battle of the Binary Stars. Starfleet Command, Starfleet Intelligence, even Section 31 seems to know absolutely nothing about the Klingons, which leads to the conflict. So, since no one would be in a position to ask Sarek about the Klingons, it makes sense that events would play out exactly the same. The only difference is that Burnham would not be around to suggest taking T'Kuvma hostage might end the conflict (which, turns out to be a pointless suggestion, since she murders T'Kuvma anyway).
I stated that the war might have not happened not that it wouldn't have happened. We don't know how events would have played out if Burnham wasn't around to attempt her mutiny or kill T'Kuvma. All we do know is that Burnham had a major effect on the outcome of the battle since she killed T'Kuvma. So Burnham's actions during the Battle of the Binary Stars changed the timeline even if the Klingon War happened in the original timeline.
We don't know how T'Kuvma would have reacted during the Klingon War if he was still alive. Part of the reason for T'Kuvma's War on the Federation was as a means to unify the Klingon Houses. So if he survived, then he might have unified the Klingon Houses and become Emperor instead of L'Rell.
But we don't know that. We don't know if Georgiou or someone else would have come up with some plan to stop the war from happening due to Burnham's actions. Burnham forced them down a certain path which resulted in war. All we can say is that the timeline was changed because Burnham wasn't killed or severely injured as a child.
There are plenty of potential ripple effects - if Burnham is as good as the show implies, then Georgiou might have had a different first officer aboard the Shenzou that was less qualified, and maybe the ship, or Georgiou, wouldn ahve been lost earlier. Good still lead to the war, since there doesn't seem to be anything obvious that would alter T'Kuvmas goals.
What I don't know is if the Discovery scenes on Vulcan are playing during the regional autumn, or if
Vulcan leaves are usually red/brown. I suspect the latter. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have more deserts than Earth, or no deserts. But it's simply not all desert, all the time.