Any change to the past changes the present or future. To believe that there is no change is denying the ramifications of time travel.
Except the whole reason why pre-destination, and boot-strap, paradoxes exist is due to the fact that you CAN go back in time and seemingly change something only to find out said change always actually happened, and that by "changing" things, you are actually making sure they happened as they originally did.
We see this in Enterprise, where the message the Borg give off is the reason why they were headed to Earth in the first place, which led to the ENT-D encountering them when they did, which led to the Borg doing what they did in First contact, which led to what happened in Enterprise, which led to what happened in TNG, etc. etc.
And you have Daniels stating that the Xindi attack and the Paraagan colony being destroyed was not supposed to happen. Enterprise is lacking in the predestination and bootstrap paradoxes. The Na'kuhl in 20th Century Germany might be a predestination paradox, but that is assuming that the Eastern Coast of USA was taken over in World War II in the initial Star Trek timeline. Personally, I believe that time travel paradoxes requires an initial time travel incident to create the paradox. My personal belief of Terminator is that some tourist from a future that never experienced a post-apocalyptic nightmare forgot to pick up his garbage or forgot his iPhone 30 and Skynet was created as a result.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,863Community Moderator
It's the typical problem of Prequels, unless you really stick to mentions in the original canon, you end up creating inconsistencies, Enterprise kind of demonstrates teh pitfall there, with the whole Xindi thing. had they stuck to showing the Romulan war, probably wouldn't have had the SAME issues (different issues instead) but they got around it with the whole time-travel thing.
They WERE going to do the Earth-Romulan War in Season 5.
The difference between Enterprise and Discovery is that Enterprise happened a century before TOS while Discovery only happened 10 years before TOS. How often do people talk about events that happened a century ago compared to 10 years ago?
Well... can handwave the tensions with the Klingon Empire in TOS as leftover tension from the war. As for the Discovery's activities... probably classified due to the fact she was an experimental equipped with an experimental FTL drive. Or Section 31 had a hand in redacting things since they may have had an interest in her, as evidenced by the black badge security seen in one episode. OR Admiral Cromwell classified anything involving the Spore Drive, which is more plausible.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The entire Na'Khul thing was explicitly stated to have been undone.
That's right. After Vosk was killed in an NX airstrike on his time portal, Daniels said time was repairing itself, undoing the damage caused by Vosk's incursion into the past.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The entire Na'Khul thing was explicitly stated to have been undone.
That's right. After Vosk was killed in an NX airstrike on his time portal, Daniels said time was repairing itself, undoing the damage caused by Vosk's incursion into the past.
That makes no sense. Only if Vosk is erased from existence similar to the temporal weapon from the Krenim weapon ship or if Vosk is killed before he went to the past would undo all the damage caused by Vosk's incursion into the past. Changing the timeline back to what Archer is familiar with doesn't prove that Vosk and the other Na'kuhls weren't in 20th Century Germany. It is just the same victory scene from The City on the Edge of Forever.
That's a very odd point to pick out of all the rest.
They've always stuck out. Considering most uniformed organisations are moving away from sex segregated uniforms and Starfleet has done away with them in all incarnations except TOS, one instance in the TOS films, and the KT it sticks out like a sore thumb. Especially as The Cage era uniforms also didn't have them and neither did DSC S1or the Kelvin.
*cough*Skant*cough*
I didn't count that because it's not a sex segregated uniform. It's an idiotic one, but both males and females can look pathetic in it equally.
Again - I loved S1 of DSC, but I agree it needs to stand on it's own merits. The Enterprise and a storyline revolving around Spock - who at this point in time SHOULD be a relatively insignificant science officer with all but six years experience - suggests an attempt at pandering to the 'DSC isn't canon/isn't Prime Universe/isn't Star Trek crowd.
How do you know it's not. Like I said, that's the whole reason Worf was brought into DS9 and why VGR dragged the Borg into major recurring villain roles. They both needed the TNG boost. It's why ENT did a U-Turn in series 4 to tie into TOS and why TKT films were based on TOS.
It draws people into the universe and makes it interconnected. Pike's currently contracted for a whole series, Worf was attached to DS9 for four series, O'Brien for seven.
Star Trek is a shared universe and doesn't need to stand on its own and to date, no series or film has.
Also amused at how angry some are at the new uniform (or at least the ones the Enterprise crew are wearing). Did anyone REALLY think they were going to use cheap 1960's turtleneck sweaters with an ironed-on fabric insignia and rank stripes that made no sense?
As long as they switch to them in time for WNMHGB it doesn't bother me. The Cage is already mostly retconned away in TOS so the rest of it going in DSC isn't a issue. And the rank did make sense. No stripes for crewmembers, one for officers, and two for captains (except Pike who had one). It's the divisions that make no sense, the blueshirts are acting as security guards in the pilots and Spock wears gold.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
(...)
However, I DO have some reservations about S2. The Enterprise for one; it was great as a cameo, but not convinced that they should be building a storyline that features the Captain of another ship so heavily.
Spock. Okay - this might not be a popular opinion..... but FFS STOP with the over-emphasis on Spock! Slightly revised, but this quote from a certain movie franchise springs to mind:
"It could mean that that he inherently contains some sort of cosmic significance. Almost as if he were the junction point for the entire space-time continuum".
(...)
Also amused at how angry some are at the new uniform (or at least the ones the Enterprise crew are wearing). Did anyone REALLY think they were going to use cheap 1960's turtleneck sweaters with an ironed-on fabric insignia and rank stripes that made no sense?
I agree with the first two points and share the confusion. Since DSC creates it's own visuals specifically for this show, expecting original uniforms was futile. I still stand by that it wasn't necessary, but I actually really like the DSC uniforms in TOS colouring. The shoulder "rings" are still weird, but the cut is nice.
As long as they switch to them in time for WNMHGB it doesn't bother me. The Cage is already mostly retconned away in TOS so the rest of it going in DSC isn't a issue. And the rank did make sense. No stripes for crewmembers, one for officers, and two for captains (except Pike who had one). It's the divisions that make no sense, the blueshirts are acting as security guards in the pilots and Spock wears gold.
They won't switch uniforms, just as they won't rebuild the Connie into it's smaller TOS version and you know that. DSC explicitly doesn't follow "visual canon", they have recreated the looks for their artistic vision. DSC does not become TOS.
On the uniform skirts though, in it's context the miniskirts of TOS were actually empowering attire, not degrading. Roddenberry was sort of a chauvinist, though if we really want to we can say the skirts were actually progressive. And I personally see nothing wrong with skirts on Star Trek starships, it's not like the crew needs utility suits to hold tools and what not, or risk floating through the ship and present everybody their boo-boos. Serving on a Starfleet ship is kinda relaxed and safe, they don't even have any railing suggesting gravity failures are such a freak rare occurrence it's of no concern. I rather embrace the choice of bottom clothing one feels comfortable with and regardless of sex or gender of course. If I feel great in a skirt I surely want to show that
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
They won't switch uniforms, just as they won't rebuild the Connie into it's smaller TOS version and you know that. DSC explicitly doesn't follow "visual canon", they have recreated the looks for their artistic vision. DSC does not become TOS.
They don't need to directly do it. Just to not not do it. And as I said in another thread, there's no ships in TOS to scale the Conni to so as far as I'm concerned they haven't changed the scale. Especially now the windows mean sod all (the DSC Conni has two different scales of windows between the saucer and the neck).
On the uniform skirts though, in it's context the miniskirts of TOS were actually empowering attire, not degrading. Roddenberry was sort of a chauvinist, though if we really want to we can say the skirts were actually progressive.
In TOS sure. In 09 not so much. If your uniform lacks basic functionality (such as having nowhere to put rank) then it's only there for looks.
And I personally see nothing wrong with skirts on Star Trek starships, it's not like the crew needs utility suits to hold tools and what not, or risk floating through the ship and present everybody their boo-boos.
There's a reason people who crawl through pipes for a reason don't wear them. About 30% of every Starfleet officers life is spent in Jeffries Tubes (even on runabouts).
Serving on a Starfleet ship is kinda relaxed and safe, they don't even have any railing suggesting gravity failures are such a freak rare occurrence it's of no concern. I rather embrace the choice of bottom clothing one feels comfortable with and regardless of sex or gender of course. If I feel great in a skirt I surely want to show that
Some people feel great in corsets, some in long tails and a 10 gallon hat. Some like wearing nothing but furs. However none of those things are uniforms anywhere. Besides, it's clear from TOS and TKT that the sex segregated uniforms are mandatory not optional.
I agree with the first two points and share the confusion. Since DSC creates it's own visuals specifically for this show, expecting original uniforms was futile. I still stand by that it wasn't necessary, but I actually really like the DSC uniforms in TOS colouring. The shoulder "rings" are still weird, but the cut is nice.
It wasn't necessary to change the ENT uniforms from purple to blue for series 3. It wasn't necessary to switch out the dS9 uniforms to the FC ones. It wasn't necessary to drop the stupid pajamas from the TOS films. And, as TOS had already retconed 'The Cage' it wasn't necessary to keep any of it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Having to look them up on MA to check they even existed is not a good thing.
Their names are mentioned in a few episodes. Not sure how you missed it if you were watching the show.
Both are named within seconds of each other at the beginning of Choose Your Pain.
Lieutenant Detmer, set course for the shuttle's last known coordinates, maximum warp.
Lieutenant Owosekun, establish search parameters sector by sector.
Detmer and Lieutenant Detmer are used numerous times on the show. The only time Detmer's first name is used in Context is for Kings when Burnham meets her on the Discovery while in prison garb.
Owosekun and Lieutenant Owosekun are used numerous times on the show, but there is no mention of Joann. So Lieutenant Keyla Detmer and Lieutenant Owosekun are canon, but Lieutenant Joann Owosekun is not canon.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,863Community Moderator
With regards to the uniforms... I honestly see the TOS style Discovery uniforms as a modernization of the old 60s uniforms. It works very well and looks better than the cheep shirts with iron on patches. And in regards to the Kelvin Timeline skirts and ranks... that one does seem a bit odd. That issue seemed to have been resolved with the uniforms shown in Beyond, where even female officers were seen with sleeves. Also... apparently in '09 and Into Darkness, female officers could choose to wear sleeves.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
With regards to the uniforms... I honestly see the TOS style Discovery uniforms as a modernization of the old 60s uniforms. It works very well and looks better than the cheep shirts with iron on patches. And in regards to the Kelvin Timeline skirts and ranks... that one does seem a bit odd. That issue seemed to have been resolved with the uniforms shown in Beyond, where even female officers were seen with sleeves. Also... apparently in '09 and Into Darkness, female officers could choose to wear sleeves.
'09 sleeveless
'09 sleeve
Beyond
Beyond handled everything better of the three.
My own comics offer sleeves and no sleeve uniforms, too.
With regards to the uniforms... I honestly see the TOS style Discovery uniforms as a modernization of the old 60s uniforms. It works very well and looks better than the cheep shirts with iron on patches. And in regards to the Kelvin Timeline skirts and ranks... that one does seem a bit odd. That issue seemed to have been resolved with the uniforms shown in Beyond, where even female officers were seen with sleeves. Also... apparently in '09 and Into Darkness, female officers could choose to wear sleeves.
'09 sleeveless
'09 sleeve
Beyond
Beyond handled everything better of the three.
My own comics offer sleeves and no sleeve uniforms, too.
Except for the fact that Beyond reduced the 5 year mission to about 5 minutes.
Having to look them up on MA to check they even existed is not a good thing.
Their names are mentioned in a few episodes. Not sure how you missed it if you were watching the show.
Both are named within seconds of each other at the beginning of Choose Your Pain.
Lieutenant Detmer, set course for the shuttle's last known coordinates, maximum warp.
Lieutenant Owosekun, establish search parameters sector by sector.
Detmer and Lieutenant Detmer are used numerous times on the show. The only time Detmer's first name is used in Context is for Kings when Burnham meets her on the Discovery while in prison garb.
Owosekun and Lieutenant Owosekun are used numerous times on the show, but there is no mention of Joann. So Lieutenant Keyla Detmer and Lieutenant Owosekun are canon, but Lieutenant Joann Owosekun is not canon.
If the name is listed in the credits, then that's good enough for me to count it as canon.
If the name is listed in the credits, then that's good enough for me to count it as canon.
That's still on-screen. Come to think of it, the same holds true for bonus material on DVDs and such.
I personally think that some statements and bhind-the-scenes info are to be used supplemental to canon and fill gaps reasonably unless contradicted. I would count on-screen text as such.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Having to look them up on MA to check they even existed is not a good thing.
Their names are mentioned in a few episodes. Not sure how you missed it if you were watching the show.
For the same reason it took me a series to learn Sulu's name. And three to learn Mayweather's. If you only focus on three characters then the rest become window dressing.
And in regards to the Kelvin Timeline skirts and ranks... that one does seem a bit odd. That issue seemed to have been resolved with the uniforms shown in Beyond, where even female officers were seen with sleeves. Also... apparently in '09 and Into Darkness, female officers could choose to wear sleeves.
'09 sleeveless
'09 sleeve
Beyond
That just makes it even more stupid. It'd be like giving Riker, Kirks plunging neckline so he'd have nowhere to hang his pips.
But BEY did also give female officers the trouser option back so there's that.
If the name is listed in the credits, then that's good enough for me to count it as canon.
That's still on-screen. Come to think of it, the same holds true for bonus material on DVDs and such.
I personally think that some statements and bhind-the-scenes info are to be used supplemental to canon and fill gaps reasonably unless contradicted. I would count on-screen text as such.
That would include deleted scenes. Though that would make Admiral Marcus' model of the tOS Conni hanging from his ceiling canon which adds another amazing layer of 'screwyou' to the Conni debate .
Though I can personally see credits being canon I can't see background material and deleted scenes as canon as the statement was films and TV series, not DVDs or whatever. Which does make we wonder about the directors vs. cinematic cuts of TMP and TUC.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
(...)
However, I DO have some reservations about S2. The Enterprise for one; it was great as a cameo, but not convinced that they should be building a storyline that features the Captain of another ship so heavily.
Spock. Okay - this might not be a popular opinion..... but FFS STOP with the over-emphasis on Spock! Slightly revised, but this quote from a certain movie franchise springs to mind:
"It could mean that that he inherently contains some sort of cosmic significance. Almost as if he were the junction point for the entire space-time continuum".
(...)
Also amused at how angry some are at the new uniform (or at least the ones the Enterprise crew are wearing). Did anyone REALLY think they were going to use cheap 1960's turtleneck sweaters with an ironed-on fabric insignia and rank stripes that made no sense?
I agree with the first two points and share the confusion. Since DSC creates it's own visuals specifically for this show, expecting original uniforms was futile. I still stand by that it wasn't necessary, but I actually really like the DSC uniforms in TOS colouring. The shoulder "rings" are still weird, but the cut is nice.
As long as they switch to them in time for WNMHGB it doesn't bother me. The Cage is already mostly retconned away in TOS so the rest of it going in DSC isn't a issue. And the rank did make sense. No stripes for crewmembers, one for officers, and two for captains (except Pike who had one). It's the divisions that make no sense, the blueshirts are acting as security guards in the pilots and Spock wears gold.
They won't switch uniforms, just as they won't rebuild the Connie into it's smaller TOS version and you know that. DSC explicitly doesn't follow "visual canon", they have recreated the looks for their artistic vision. DSC does not become TOS.
On the uniform skirts though, in it's context the miniskirts of TOS were actually empowering attire, not degrading. Roddenberry was sort of a chauvinist, though if we really want to we can say the skirts were actually progressive. And I personally see nothing wrong with skirts on Star Trek starships, it's not like the crew needs utility suits to hold tools and what not, or risk floating through the ship and present everybody their boo-boos. Serving on a Starfleet ship is kinda relaxed and safe, they don't even have any railing suggesting gravity failures are such a freak rare occurrence it's of no concern. I rather embrace the choice of bottom clothing one feels comfortable with and regardless of sex or gender of course. If I feel great in a skirt I surely want to show that
Yea, I'd be having the skirt option as well, probably sleeveless as well.
Comments
TMP FTW!
And you have Daniels stating that the Xindi attack and the Paraagan colony being destroyed was not supposed to happen. Enterprise is lacking in the predestination and bootstrap paradoxes. The Na'kuhl in 20th Century Germany might be a predestination paradox, but that is assuming that the Eastern Coast of USA was taken over in World War II in the initial Star Trek timeline. Personally, I believe that time travel paradoxes requires an initial time travel incident to create the paradox. My personal belief of Terminator is that some tourist from a future that never experienced a post-apocalyptic nightmare forgot to pick up his garbage or forgot his iPhone 30 and Skynet was created as a result.
They WERE going to do the Earth-Romulan War in Season 5.
Well... can handwave the tensions with the Klingon Empire in TOS as leftover tension from the war. As for the Discovery's activities... probably classified due to the fact she was an experimental equipped with an experimental FTL drive. Or Section 31 had a hand in redacting things since they may have had an interest in her, as evidenced by the black badge security seen in one episode. OR Admiral Cromwell classified anything involving the Spore Drive, which is more plausible.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
That's right. After Vosk was killed in an NX airstrike on his time portal, Daniels said time was repairing itself, undoing the damage caused by Vosk's incursion into the past.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
https://trekmovie.com/2018/07/22/exclusive-anson-mount-talks-playing-pike-reveals-how-many-episodes-hes-in-of-star-trek-discovery/
That makes no sense. Only if Vosk is erased from existence similar to the temporal weapon from the Krenim weapon ship or if Vosk is killed before he went to the past would undo all the damage caused by Vosk's incursion into the past. Changing the timeline back to what Archer is familiar with doesn't prove that Vosk and the other Na'kuhls weren't in 20th Century Germany. It is just the same victory scene from The City on the Edge of Forever.
I didn't count that because it's not a sex segregated uniform. It's an idiotic one, but both males and females can look pathetic in it equally.
You spelt F.M.L incorrectly. (I had to stick full stops in that because the forum censor is written by a 12 year old girl from San Francisco.)
How do you know it's not. Like I said, that's the whole reason Worf was brought into DS9 and why VGR dragged the Borg into major recurring villain roles. They both needed the TNG boost. It's why ENT did a U-Turn in series 4 to tie into TOS and why TKT films were based on TOS.
It draws people into the universe and makes it interconnected. Pike's currently contracted for a whole series, Worf was attached to DS9 for four series, O'Brien for seven.
Star Trek is a shared universe and doesn't need to stand on its own and to date, no series or film has.
As long as they switch to them in time for WNMHGB it doesn't bother me. The Cage is already mostly retconned away in TOS so the rest of it going in DSC isn't a issue. And the rank did make sense. No stripes for crewmembers, one for officers, and two for captains (except Pike who had one). It's the divisions that make no sense, the blueshirts are acting as security guards in the pilots and Spock wears gold.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I agree with the first two points and share the confusion. Since DSC creates it's own visuals specifically for this show, expecting original uniforms was futile. I still stand by that it wasn't necessary, but I actually really like the DSC uniforms in TOS colouring. The shoulder "rings" are still weird, but the cut is nice.
They won't switch uniforms, just as they won't rebuild the Connie into it's smaller TOS version and you know that. DSC explicitly doesn't follow "visual canon", they have recreated the looks for their artistic vision. DSC does not become TOS.
On the uniform skirts though, in it's context the miniskirts of TOS were actually empowering attire, not degrading. Roddenberry was sort of a chauvinist, though if we really want to we can say the skirts were actually progressive. And I personally see nothing wrong with skirts on Star Trek starships, it's not like the crew needs utility suits to hold tools and what not, or risk floating through the ship and present everybody their boo-boos. Serving on a Starfleet ship is kinda relaxed and safe, they don't even have any railing suggesting gravity failures are such a freak rare occurrence it's of no concern. I rather embrace the choice of bottom clothing one feels comfortable with and regardless of sex or gender of course. If I feel great in a skirt I surely want to show that
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My character Tsin'xing
They both have names. Lieutenant Joann Owosekun and Keyla Detmer.
[/quote]
And my line directly underneath those?
Having to look them up on MA to check they even existed is not a good thing.
They don't need to directly do it. Just to not not do it. And as I said in another thread, there's no ships in TOS to scale the Conni to so as far as I'm concerned they haven't changed the scale. Especially now the windows mean sod all (the DSC Conni has two different scales of windows between the saucer and the neck).
In TOS sure. In 09 not so much. If your uniform lacks basic functionality (such as having nowhere to put rank) then it's only there for looks.
There's a reason people who crawl through pipes for a reason don't wear them. About 30% of every Starfleet officers life is spent in Jeffries Tubes (even on runabouts).
Some people feel great in corsets, some in long tails and a 10 gallon hat. Some like wearing nothing but furs. However none of those things are uniforms anywhere. Besides, it's clear from TOS and TKT that the sex segregated uniforms are mandatory not optional.
It wasn't necessary to change the ENT uniforms from purple to blue for series 3. It wasn't necessary to switch out the dS9 uniforms to the FC ones. It wasn't necessary to drop the stupid pajamas from the TOS films. And, as TOS had already retconed 'The Cage' it wasn't necessary to keep any of it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
https://trekmovie.com/2018/07/23/author-michael-chabon-gives-details-on-his-star-trek-discovery-short-calypso/
Both are named within seconds of each other at the beginning of Choose Your Pain.
Detmer and Lieutenant Detmer are used numerous times on the show. The only time Detmer's first name is used in Context is for Kings when Burnham meets her on the Discovery while in prison garb.
Owosekun and Lieutenant Owosekun are used numerous times on the show, but there is no mention of Joann. So Lieutenant Keyla Detmer and Lieutenant Owosekun are canon, but Lieutenant Joann Owosekun is not canon.
https://trekmovie.com/2018/07/23/exclusive-wilson-cruz-talks-about-dr-culbers-mysterious-return-in-star-trek-discovery-season-2/
'09 sleeveless
'09 sleeve
Beyond
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Beyond handled everything better of the three.
My own comics offer sleeves and no sleeve uniforms, too.
Except for the fact that Beyond reduced the 5 year mission to about 5 minutes.
My character Tsin'xing
That's still on-screen. Come to think of it, the same holds true for bonus material on DVDs and such.
I personally think that some statements and bhind-the-scenes info are to be used supplemental to canon and fill gaps reasonably unless contradicted. I would count on-screen text as such.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
For the same reason it took me a series to learn Sulu's name. And three to learn Mayweather's. If you only focus on three characters then the rest become window dressing.
That just makes it even more stupid. It'd be like giving Riker, Kirks plunging neckline so he'd have nowhere to hang his pips.
But BEY did also give female officers the trouser option back so there's that.
That would include deleted scenes. Though that would make Admiral Marcus' model of the tOS Conni hanging from his ceiling canon which adds another amazing layer of 'screwyou' to the Conni debate
Though I can personally see credits being canon I can't see background material and deleted scenes as canon as the statement was films and TV series, not DVDs or whatever. Which does make we wonder about the directors vs. cinematic cuts of TMP and TUC.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Yea, I'd be having the skirt option as well, probably sleeveless as well.