Recent cutie in DPS land was the Dynamic Power Redistributor Module. Nice console cryptic gave us with a lock box ship and which, of course, can be slotted on all ships.
Players can dislike the embassy consoles as much as they do but there aren’t cheaper performance consoles around in STO. Remove their worth opens the door for more variety, nice, but you can also count on the fact that the results will only widen the gap between rich and poor players.
This thread deals with the concerns of the revamp. The growing gap is mine.
Nerfing the embassy consoles is only beneficial for bored über performers who would like to try out something different or players who don’t care about their performance anyway.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I'm sure if you look you can find some nice options for 25 million and under, rather than pointing out the single MOST expensive way to go about filling those slots as if it's somehow representative of the problem...
The Embassy Consoles will still be sought after due to their Threat modifiers. Even with a 10second shared CD between procs, I can see many players still stacking them either to gain or shed threat. What a 10-second shared cooldown would do is make ships with less Science slots closer in performance to ships with lots of Sci slots (like the Science Flagships).
I can't stand this, I just can't stand it, even before tribble testing, basically what I'm seeing is the devs nerfing people who bring home their bacon via dps and all players who have taken the time and the grind to learn effective builds and how to maximize them efficiently to their full potential. You'll have to forgive me but is that not frikkin insulting to anyone else?
Cry some more.
Had you an iota of rational thought, you would understand that the math behind the mechanics of any MMO are not, and should never be assumed to be, set in stone. As time passes and new things are added, problems crop up that may not have originally been anticipated, synergies emerge that weren't intended or thoroughly considered, and you get what we've got now - a bunch of people doing damage that's wildly disproportionate for what the game expects. Occasionally, this situation must be dealt with, and sometimes that means nerfs.
If breaking the game is how you have fun, consider this a new opportunity to test your skills. Find new ways to be broken and insanely overpowered. Cryptic is essentially handing you new content, kinda like how they revamped old story missions by removing most of them, only with under-the-hood math instead of actual content.
I'm sure if you look you can find some nice options for 25 million and under, rather than pointing out the single MOST expensive way to go about filling those slots as if it's somehow representative of the problem...
We get new lock box ships each quarter. There will always be new "best" ways to fill sci console slots as dumping ground for universals if the embassy ones loose thier meaning. 25mil and under consoles will surely work too but bet on cryptic that the expensive ones will just work better.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I'm sure if you look you can find some nice options for 25 million and under, rather than pointing out the single MOST expensive way to go about filling those slots as if it's somehow representative of the problem...
We get new lock box ships each quarter. There will always be new "best" ways to fill sci console slots as dumping ground for universals if the embassy ones loose thier meaning.
Should embassy consoles lose their meaning, then you only have to look at how pure (not exotic hybrid) torp ships are built. Their sci consoles are usually dumping ground for universals which may include Lobi and Lockbox consoles. So in a way, you are right. Though I doubt it (hope it won't?) would end up to be that extreme.
Recent cutie in DPS land was the Dynamic Power Redistributor Module. Nice console cryptic gave us with a lock box ship and which, of course, can be slotted on all ships.
since when? last i checked, 2 minute clickies were a MAJOR no-no for DPS builds, and it's stats are certainly nothing impressive...a 17% cat1 damage bonus - that isn't even 1/2 of a maxed tac console
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I'm sure if you look you can find some nice options for 25 million and under, rather than pointing out the single MOST expensive way to go about filling those slots as if it's somehow representative of the problem...
We get new lock box ships each quarter. There will always be new "best" ways to fill sci console slots as dumping ground for universals if the embassy ones loose thier meaning.
Should embassy consoles lose their meaning, then you only have to look at how pure (not exotic hybrid) torp ships are built. Their sci consoles are usually dumping ground for universals which may include Lobi and Lockbox consoles. So in a way, you are right. Though I doubt it (hope it won't?) would end up to be that extreme.
Quiet that yea. For me personally it’s not even a thing as I have 2-5 consoles on each toon already in bank that I heavy-heartedly removed in favor of the embassy console mata. We shall see.
The thing for me is that cryptic may freely change or adjust the rules as far as captains and boff powers are concerned. Doesn’t really matter to me as this stuff has always been free and if it is time for a change then so be it.
Gear on the other had is stupidly expensive in this game and takes weeks if not moth to gather. Hope Spartan respects that!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I for one am pretty excited by the possibilities of these changes. The change to science captains that makes sub nuc a boff power and adds the new deflector captain power sounds AWESOME and the changes to Engineers EPS power buff sounds awesome too. Maybe my scis and engs won't be so crappy anymore!
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
since when? last i checked, 2 minute clickies were a MAJOR no-no for DPS builds,
Think the first consoles that really changed that was the flagship console set so the answer to your question is 11 Feb 2016. There have been a few other indirctly usefull ones around even before that.
and it's stats are certainly nothing impressive...a 17% cat1 damage bonus - that isn't even 1/2 of a maxed tac console
so what's so spectacular about it?
To use your own words I guess it’s a 2 minute clicky which used to be a MAJOR no-no for DPS builds a few years ago.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I for one am pretty excited by the possibilities of these changes. The change to science captains that makes sub nuc a boff power and adds the new deflector captain power sounds AWESOME and the changes to Engineers EPS power buff sounds awesome too. Maybe my scis and engs won't be so crappy anymore!
I’m optimistic with that as well. I played ground almost exclusively the past 3 weeks. What they did with engineers and scis there was quiet cool.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
When everyone is super, no one is. This is just as bad as the major ground nerfs.
What's embarrassing -- beyond having to listen to folks parrot a cartoon supervillain like Pixar is the home of deep philosophy -- is watching people just clever enough to copy a build from the people who understand the game come on here to a) argue with those same people just because they're afraid of any change whatsoever and b) freak out like they somehow won't be able to copy the new best build off the internet within a week or three.
Seriously: Fear not. The people that like game mechanics and puzzling out optimal solutions will have your new cheat sheets available shortly. It may mean giving more thought to other builds (if you want to try something different...), and maybe swap around a few Boff abilities.
Cope. Or if you're really that terrible at the game that you can't cope with an utterly routine part of the MMO experience, then move on.
Overall I like these changes. Some further points.
Pet and warp core breaches. That is a good change, but take things a step further. Get rid of it all together or tone it down. Was it supposed to work as a damage doing abillity? What is more realistic, to fly inside a bomb, or a mechanic that shuts down the warp core in case of massive incoming damage. Keep the blow up animation, but lower the damage.
Subtarget systems works now also on cannons. Fantastic, this gives good options for a science ship with turrets and a beam for beam overload. Now I would like to see that we can mount single cannons in the aft slots.
I would like to see some more use of mines. Despite long thinking about the mechanics, I don't have a real solution. Let's begin with lowering the boff abillities, to bring them on the same level as torpedo abillities. Is this also an idea for cannons?
To bring the statements of my previous post more in line with the structure Odenknight intended my concerns address possible changes to the usefulness of specific gear.
3) Are there any plans to change the functionality and/or performance of fleet Plasma-Generating Weapon Signature Nullifiers /Amplifiers or the Iconian Space Set and if so what are they?
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
When everyone is super, no one is. This is just as bad as the major ground nerfs.
What's embarrassing -- beyond having to listen to folks parrot a cartoon supervillain like Pixar is the home of deep philosophy -- is watching people just clever enough to copy a build from the people who understand the game come on here to a) argue with those same people just because they're afraid of any change whatsoever and b) freak out like they somehow won't be able to copy the new best build off the internet within a week or three.
Seriously: Fear not. The people that like game mechanics and puzzling out optimal solutions will have your new cheat sheets available shortly. It may mean giving more thought to other builds (if you want to try something different...), and maybe swap around a few Boff abilities.
Cope. Or if you're really that terrible at the game that you can't cope with an utterly routine part of the MMO experience, then move on.
This.
Really am starting to wonder if some really do think that the Devs are group of cartoonish moustache-twirling villans sat around a meeting table in a dark room, plotting ways of making players who are too set in their ways miserable.
Some of it looks interesting, a lot of it looks "meh," but one thing looks definitely bad:
All "Hot Restart" powers that automatically remove a subsystem offline can no longer apply more than once per 60 seconds.
This is going to make certain enemies totally PITA again, spamming weapon disables.
player disables are having disable immunities added to them to prevent chain-disables - i would hope that also applies to NPC disables
Except there are different kinds of "disables" in the game and I for one have never been exactly clear what counts as what. Is the tholians' weapon-disabling BFAW for example the kind of "disable" intended to give an immunity, or does it work by draining your weapon power to 0 or something? And is the disable immunity long enough for Hot Restart to be usable again?
All I know the iconian set countered all the annoyances and now it will apparently stop doing that.
On the good side, the pet improvements look promising. I just hope the "updated AI to be more responsive" can finally hit it's full impulse when I do so my pets don't get left behind every time I move.
i think it's just a bog-standard subsystem offline; if it were just draining weapons power to zero, anything that gives weapons power (like the 2-piece effect from the assimilated weapon set) would instantly being them back online - unless it also prevents any kind of power gain as well
and as for pets, they ought to just remove FI from them entirely and have their speed be equal to the player's current impulse speed + 20 - that way, no matter how fast YOU get, your TRIBBLE will always keep up
and this should also apply to everything summonable as well; fleet support, photonic fleet, nimbus/delta summonables, separation pets, etc.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
i think it's just a bog-standard subsystem offline; if it were just draining weapons power to zero, anything that gives weapons power (like the 2-piece effect from the assimilated weapon set) would instantly being them back online - unless it also prevents any kind of power gain as well
Maybe, maybe not. Certainly your weapon power shows 0 when affected by that condition. Amd is a "bog-standard subsystem offline" the same thing as a "subsystem disable?" Do both of them give immunity? Is it 60 seconds?
It's by no means clear what that whole "disable immunity" thing actually applies.
i think it's just a bog-standard subsystem offline; if it were just draining weapons power to zero, anything that gives weapons power (like the 2-piece effect from the assimilated weapon set) would instantly being them back online - unless it also prevents any kind of power gain as well
Maybe, maybe not. Certainly your weapon power shows 0 when affected by that condition. Amd is a "bog-standard subsystem offline" the same thing as a "subsystem disable?" Do both of them give immunity? Is it 60 seconds?
It's by no means clear what that whole "disable immunity" thing actually applies.
The skill revamp should have standardized the terms, but of course everyone of us old geezers still remembers the confusion and hasn't really learned the "correct" vocabulary yet.
IIRC: What used to be subsystem disables should be subsystem offline.
There are still holds and disables, though. Holds are things like Tractor Beam, disables are things like Photonic Shockwave.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
One thing that I haven't seen addressed yet: What about the embassy consoles? They are basically the only choice for science console slots these days, which conflicts with the mission statement for the balance changes.
Shared 10 second cool down and you'll see people jettison all but one of them as fast as their airlock will open.
I'd go for making them an equip limit of one that goes back to th DoT style effect. Basically hybridizing a plasma proc onto your weapons for the cost of a console.
And really the hostility to PvP-based balancing is petulant. Why shouldn't the game be based around opponents that are actually dangerous? The better your system's PvP set up, the easier it is to create PvE encounters with smart/tough enemies.
There is still a very compelling reason not to balance around PVP issues:
Too small a sample size to create useful data.
There just isn't enough of the game dedicated to PVP or enough players using that part of the game to really justify making wholesale and large changes based on PVP.
Luckily as you yourself noted, these changes are all PVE centered.
I for one am pretty excited by the possibilities of these changes. The change to science captains that makes sub nuc a boff power and adds the new deflector captain power sounds AWESOME and the changes to Engineers EPS power buff sounds awesome too. Maybe my scis and engs won't be so crappy anymore!
I'm excited about the changes too, but man, your SCI isn't crappy at all right now. You can build a very effective science toon for damage. The revamp is going to be a lot of fun because it will improve something that is already really good.
Comments
What in the name of the Nine TRIBBLE are you shopping for??!
Players can dislike the embassy consoles as much as they do but there aren’t cheaper performance consoles around in STO. Remove their worth opens the door for more variety, nice, but you can also count on the fact that the results will only widen the gap between rich and poor players.
This thread deals with the concerns of the revamp. The growing gap is mine.
Nerfing the embassy consoles is only beneficial for bored über performers who would like to try out something different or players who don’t care about their performance anyway.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Cry some more.
Had you an iota of rational thought, you would understand that the math behind the mechanics of any MMO are not, and should never be assumed to be, set in stone. As time passes and new things are added, problems crop up that may not have originally been anticipated, synergies emerge that weren't intended or thoroughly considered, and you get what we've got now - a bunch of people doing damage that's wildly disproportionate for what the game expects. Occasionally, this situation must be dealt with, and sometimes that means nerfs.
If breaking the game is how you have fun, consider this a new opportunity to test your skills. Find new ways to be broken and insanely overpowered. Cryptic is essentially handing you new content, kinda like how they revamped old story missions by removing most of them, only with under-the-hood math instead of actual content.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
We get new lock box ships each quarter. There will always be new "best" ways to fill sci console slots as dumping ground for universals if the embassy ones loose thier meaning. 25mil and under consoles will surely work too but bet on cryptic that the expensive ones will just work better.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Should embassy consoles lose their meaning, then you only have to look at how pure (not exotic hybrid) torp ships are built. Their sci consoles are usually dumping ground for universals which may include Lobi and Lockbox consoles. So in a way, you are right. Though I doubt it (hope it won't?) would end up to be that extreme.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
since when? last i checked, 2 minute clickies were a MAJOR no-no for DPS builds, and it's stats are certainly nothing impressive...a 17% cat1 damage bonus - that isn't even 1/2 of a maxed tac console
so what's so spectacular about it?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Quiet that yea. For me personally it’s not even a thing as I have 2-5 consoles on each toon already in bank that I heavy-heartedly removed in favor of the embassy console mata. We shall see.
The thing for me is that cryptic may freely change or adjust the rules as far as captains and boff powers are concerned. Doesn’t really matter to me as this stuff has always been free and if it is time for a change then so be it.
Gear on the other had is stupidly expensive in this game and takes weeks if not moth to gather. Hope Spartan respects that!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
When everyone is super, no one is. This is just as bad as the major ground nerfs.
I’m optimistic with that as well. I played ground almost exclusively the past 3 weeks. What they did with engineers and scis there was quiet cool.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
What's embarrassing -- beyond having to listen to folks parrot a cartoon supervillain like Pixar is the home of deep philosophy -- is watching people just clever enough to copy a build from the people who understand the game come on here to a) argue with those same people just because they're afraid of any change whatsoever and b) freak out like they somehow won't be able to copy the new best build off the internet within a week or three.
Seriously: Fear not. The people that like game mechanics and puzzling out optimal solutions will have your new cheat sheets available shortly. It may mean giving more thought to other builds (if you want to try something different...), and maybe swap around a few Boff abilities.
Cope. Or if you're really that terrible at the game that you can't cope with an utterly routine part of the MMO experience, then move on.
Pet and warp core breaches. That is a good change, but take things a step further. Get rid of it all together or tone it down. Was it supposed to work as a damage doing abillity? What is more realistic, to fly inside a bomb, or a mechanic that shuts down the warp core in case of massive incoming damage. Keep the blow up animation, but lower the damage.
Subtarget systems works now also on cannons. Fantastic, this gives good options for a science ship with turrets and a beam for beam overload. Now I would like to see that we can mount single cannons in the aft slots.
I would like to see some more use of mines. Despite long thinking about the mechanics, I don't have a real solution. Let's begin with lowering the boff abillities, to bring them on the same level as torpedo abillities. Is this also an idea for cannons?
@crypticspartan#0627
3) Are there any plans to change the functionality and/or performance of fleet Plasma-Generating Weapon Signature Nullifiers /Amplifiers or the Iconian Space Set and if so what are they?
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
player disables are having disable immunities added to them to prevent chain-disables - i would hope that also applies to NPC disables
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Well, there is Gecko on the payroll..
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All I know the iconian set countered all the annoyances and now it will apparently stop doing that.
On the good side, the pet improvements look promising. I just hope the "updated AI to be more responsive" can finally hit it's full impulse when I do so my pets don't get left behind every time I move.
and as for pets, they ought to just remove FI from them entirely and have their speed be equal to the player's current impulse speed + 20 - that way, no matter how fast YOU get, your TRIBBLE will always keep up
and this should also apply to everything summonable as well; fleet support, photonic fleet, nimbus/delta summonables, separation pets, etc.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
It's by no means clear what that whole "disable immunity" thing actually applies.
IIRC: What used to be subsystem disables should be subsystem offline.
There are still holds and disables, though. Holds are things like Tractor Beam, disables are things like Photonic Shockwave.
Yes, being an exotic ability, EPG will still scale it.
I'd go for making them an equip limit of one that goes back to th DoT style effect. Basically hybridizing a plasma proc onto your weapons for the cost of a console.
There is still a very compelling reason not to balance around PVP issues:
Too small a sample size to create useful data.
There just isn't enough of the game dedicated to PVP or enough players using that part of the game to really justify making wholesale and large changes based on PVP.
Luckily as you yourself noted, these changes are all PVE centered.
I'm excited about the changes too, but man, your SCI isn't crappy at all right now. You can build a very effective science toon for damage. The revamp is going to be a lot of fun because it will improve something that is already really good.
Which things do you label as the most challenging the game has to offer?