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Space Revamp Thoughts and Concerns

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  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    nikephorus wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    jslyn wrote: »
    I do believe that AHOD is a C-Store Ship Trait and not Lockbox Ship Trait. It is a waste of $35 USD rather than millions of EC.

    So, "Player investment retains value" was just a bold-face lie then. Amirite!?
    Leech, from what I hear, only has the Self-Buff limited to +6. The enemy still has the same Drain Hit as they did before.

    Who cares about how much you drain a NPC!? Leech has always been about, you know, leeching power.
    And, honestly, +6 is not bad as that is +6 per Subsystem, so an effective +24 Power.

    On my Rom, starting with -40, +6 per subsystem is a joke. And, it's effectively +6, as 'vertical' is really the only meaningful measure.

    I agree with most of this... AOD nerf doesn't matter cause its c-store so affordable and doesn't matter? Nerf to leech is definitely a really huge nerf for romulans who suffer low subsystem power.


    The nerf to AHOD matters greatly to me. I couldn't care less about losing the $35 (although I care about that a bit); but seeing my Tact Captain's abilities cd reduction invalidated is a major thing, of course. On my Engineer main, yeah, I can use MW a few times less, yawn. But on my Tact, yeah, AHOD nerf is biggie.

    Yeah I worded that a little oddly AHOD matters to me as well. I didn't buy the Presidio just for that trait, but to see it nerfed so long after release is pretty annoying.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    what the hell are you people even bitching about? i just went back through the patch notes - there is not a SINGLE mention of AHOD anywhere in them, therefore it was not nerfed​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    what the hell are you people even bitching about? i just went back through the patch notes - there is not a SINGLE mention of AHOD anywhere in them, therefore it was not nerfed​​


    Therefore your logic is flawed: Captain Abilities will now be locked at a minimal cd, so AHOD can no longer shorten the cd of APA, FOMM, TI, etc, the way it could. Hence, major nerf.
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  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    @sophlogimo
    I was actually just thinking about that. :D Trying to get super high healing is kinda like what the dps guys do, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.
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  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    @sophlogimo
    I was actually just thinking about that. :D Trying to get super high healing is kinda like what the dps guys do, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.

    Well, if the changes on tribble go live the way they are now, some of DPS guys and other players wont be able to do that anymore :) There ships will detonate due to changes in some of the consoles they use
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    What do you mean 'if', these will probably go live by March 31st at the latest, just in time for April Fools Day. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • gtvadeimosgtvadeimos Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    Lets have a look at diversity.

    Assume a casual player is looking for fun on a budget and is space poor for ec. He picks ROM and goes with KDF. He grinds through a toon or 2 getting either the Braydon or Quantum sets for his shiny Warbird. Playing a touch of RP he wants to stick with plasma weapons and perhaps swap between sciscorts and sci ships as that suits how he wants to play. Tired of having no power for weapons or exotic damage and noticing that the sets have drain on them he invests in the Vandal to get leech for his toons. He also buys the Valdore for the Shield Console. Happy with his purchases improving his ship he grinds his way through stfs for rep and gear. He reads the Meta is Iconian but wants to play sci heavy and therefore be a be a bit different and keep his drain so he looks for rep sets to suit him. Lo and behold he sees that almost all the recent sets, both rep and mission reward are drain heavy. Terran, Temporal and Lukari Sets as well as the 2 mission reward sets mentioned all have drain and/or control which suits him for his off Meta style. He purchases fleet sci consoles eventually of some flavour from one of the outlets and begins to enjoy himself. Yes he is mostly off meta but having fun.

    Now devs want to bring in nerfs to make pvpers happy and generate a wholesale change in equipment to generate revenue. This is hidden behind claims of wanting to bring back fun and diversity to the game. Our poor little player who has been having fun finds his sci powers mostly nerfed, leech nerfed and his space set Braydon, Quantum, Terran, Temporal or Lukari is now poinless to have as he gets no benefit from them as he plays RP weapons that get nothing from drainx. His off meta semi RP fun build had just been sunk without trace and he is neither happy or having fun.

    The question is for this chap, if he deliberately kept off meta for the most part using sets and weapons that are less popular but therefore more diverse, why has someone in their wisdom decided to invalidate his zen purchase, make the last 5 sets in the game pointless as they major in drainx, his sci consoles worthless as they have had their damage/drainx nerfed (whether its energy or plasma explosion damage) and kick his warbird majorly down in power because he has no choice but to use a singularity core and claim it is in the interest of fun and diversity.

    Feeling a little bit unhappy he considers quitting and certainly feels that investing the little cash he has in a nice shiny Rom Vesta and Jhu'ael for his game style is now out of reach as he will have to change all his equipment before that can happen.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    gtvadeimos wrote: »
    Now devs want to bring in nerfs to make pvpers happy and generate a wholesale change in equipment to generate revenue. This is hidden behind claims of wanting to bring back fun and diversity to the game. Our poor little player who has been having fun finds his sci powers mostly nerfed, leech nerfed and his space set Braydon, Quantum, Terran, Temporal or Lukari is now poinless to have as he gets no benefit from them as he plays RP weapons that get nothing from drainx. His off meta semi RP fun build had just been sunk without trace and he is neither happy or having fun.

    That would describe me. A few months back, I decided to fully upgrade my Rom alt, at considerable cost. 'Buy ship for AHOD, get Krenim for Enhanced FBP, get fully ugraded Terran space set for DrainX, upgrade a few Embassy consoles, upgrade your beam weps, etc, etc.' All the time Spartan was already scheming to undo all of that -- not telling me, of course, or I would not have invested anything. Hence why I call that 'with malice aforethought.'

    So, yeah, not happy at all; and not having fun.
    The question is for this chap, if he deliberately kept off meta for the most part using sets and weapons that are less popular but therefore more diverse, why has someone in their wisdom decided to invalidate his zen purchase, make the last 5 sets in the game pointless as they major in drainx, his sci consoles worthless as they have had their damage/drainx nerfed (whether its energy or plasma explosion damage) and kick his warbird majorly down in power because he has no choice but to use a singularity core and claim it is in the interest of fun and diversity.

    Feeling a little bit unhappy he considers quitting and certainly feels that investing the little cash he has in a nice shiny Rom Vesta and Jhu'ael for his game style is now out of reach as he will have to change all his equipment before that can happen.

    Couldn't agree more!
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The nerf to AHOD matters greatly to me.

    I get that, and I do absolutely see the merit of the concern. What I'd ask is do you know what the minimum cooldowns are? Because the base cooldown time for Captain abilities is NOT the minimum cooldown. Captain skill tempo can still be sped up. All Hands on Deck is still going to work. I'm not sure its actually effected by the new minimum at all (it wouldn't be if the minimum cooldown is less than the cooldown reduction supplied by AHOD). At least, when used by itself.

    My impression was the minimum cooldown is there to cap the effectiveness of using several different cooldown reduction effects in conjunction. Maybe you have and are using all the pieces of the combo, in which case you'd see a nerf. But maybe not.

    (Sorry I don't have the minimum number so we could tackle the question mathmatically - the actual individual cooldown 'floors' were not listed in the patch notes.)

  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    foxman00 wrote: »
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    @sophlogimo
    I was actually just thinking about that. :D Trying to get super high healing is kinda like what the dps guys do, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.

    Well, if the changes on tribble go live the way they are now, some of DPS guys and other players wont be able to do that anymore :) There ships will detonate due to changes in some of the consoles they use

    I wasn't prepared to laugh as hard as I did. :D
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  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    What do you mean 'if', these will probably go live by March 31st at the latest, just in time for April Fools Day. ;)

    I can see it now. Cryptic says "just kidding" and deletes the changes. :D
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  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The nerf to AHOD matters greatly to me.

    I get that, and I do absolutely see the merit of the concern. What I'd ask is do you know what the minimum cooldowns are? Because the base cooldown time for Captain abilities is NOT the minimum cooldown. Captain skill tempo can still be sped up. All Hands on Deck is still going to work. I'm not sure its actually effected by the new minimum at all (it wouldn't be if the minimum cooldown is less than the cooldown reduction supplied by AHOD). At least, when used by itself.

    My impression was the minimum cooldown is there to cap the effectiveness of using several different cooldown reduction effects in conjunction. Maybe you have and are using all the pieces of the combo, in which case you'd see a nerf. But maybe not.

    (Sorry I don't have the minimum number so we could tackle the question mathmatically - the actual individual cooldown 'floors' were not listed in the patch notes.)

    Also, I am still pre-patching MEA at the moment, and I need to double check my findings, but it looks like so far, it might be a 50% global. Meaning if you general captain ability cooldown is 2 minutes, you can reduce it any further than 1 minute.

    Again, need to double check my findings, still waking up atm :)
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    nikeix wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The nerf to AHOD matters greatly to me.

    I get that, and I do absolutely see the merit of the concern. What I'd ask is do you know what the minimum cooldowns are? Because the base cooldown time for Captain abilities is NOT the minimum cooldown. Captain skill tempo can still be sped up. All Hands on Deck is still going to work. I'm not sure its actually effected by the new minimum at all (it wouldn't be if the minimum cooldown is less than the cooldown reduction supplied by AHOD). At least, when used by itself.

    My impression was the minimum cooldown is there to cap the effectiveness of using several different cooldown reduction effects in conjunction. Maybe you have and are using all the pieces of the combo, in which case you'd see a nerf. But maybe not.

    (Sorry I don't have the minimum number so we could tackle the question mathmatically - the actual individual cooldown 'floors' were not listed in the patch notes.)


    You ask a fair question. And, in equal fairness, no, I don't know what this alleged 'minimal' cd on Captain abilities is. I don't think the blog specified that. I just assumed it would be bad (as I figured there would otherwise be no good reason for them to mention it).
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    You ask a fair question. And, in equal fairness, no, I don't know what this alleged 'minimal' cd on Captain abilities is. I don't think the blog specified that. I just assumed it would be bad (as I figured there would otherwise be no good reason for them to mention it).

    Again, just my impression, but I thought there were combinations that could turn some Captain abilities essentially into toggles/100% up time because the cooldown had been cut to the length of the buff itself (or less). I can see how from the Dev side of things that's 'BAD'. Bad enough they wanted to specifically call out they were killing that **** DEAD. I'd guess getting such extreme cooldown reduction takes 3-4 abilities working together, but I don't know.

    Its a leap of faith on my part, but my first guess would be that the new floors are low enough no individual ability is directly being clipped. Hopefully player research or better patch notes can verify (or disprove) that belief.

  • xclusiv11xclusiv11 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Partly because WOW was referenced multiple times in this thread and others as justifications for "resets" I would like to point out a fallacy in that argument which I have not seen expressly made yet.

    The greatest issue with that comparison is WoW did it roughly annually (gear reset) but was always accompanied by certain requirements, a lvl cap increase and an expansion (massive new content which makes sense to have power creep and "new" gear... old t3 gear obviously over shadowed by blues 5lvls higher which was like WTF but it made sense).

    What we have here is minimal content increases (a new rep faction + que) 3-4 missions, etc. an expansion yes, but not on the same level as what wow did. Now in that same fashion we are having power creep negated with no level increase and the same content. Meaning we now have a "reset" with nothing being given in return. That is why this is not going to be received well.

    Ultimately I agree the power creep as described on the PC was/is outa hand but don't call this balancing, this is a reset for the sole purpose of $$ and they didn't even use the standard "scaling to new content" as an excuse, just flat out "reset, balance good, now buy these new lockboxes and r&d packs to get plasmonic 2.0"
  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    What do you mean 'if', these will probably go live by March 31st at the latest, just in time for April Fools Day. ;)

    Sorry, I didn't mean if it did or didnt go live. I meant for example "BFAW on tribble reduces accuracy by 20% at BFAW 1 rank, however a future tribble patch reduces that to a 15% reduction, and the 15% reduction goes live".

    Just in case your were also joking, just wanted to make sure I hadnt come across the wrong way :)
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    My entire build that I spent over 3500 hours of time and money on perfecting is now getting nerfed. They want to bring everyone down to the level of the casual player. STO is done. Put a fork in it.


    What they want, is to reset our spending cycle. All, from the lips of Spartan himself, with malice aforethought. Having us spend money on the power creep, then -- very deliberately -- invalidate our stuff afterwards, so they can start selling power creep to us again. I should have seen the cycle coming when Bort killed Intel.

    Why, I drafted many a post about Spartan et al., all of which would get me perma-banned instantly, I can assure you. Instead, I've simply decided not to give them any more of my money. They have swindled me for the last time. 'Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.' and all that.

    Totally agreed.

    I have played this game a long time and I have seen the cycle before, but never quite like this. There is nothing 'balancing' about this patch, it's a blanket nerf to all the big selling items. Simply put, they waited until everyone already had these items and now that they have the money it's time to reduce their effectiveness. Then you release new items to replace the old ones, get people to buy those, rinse and repeat.

    They can get away with it, but that doesn't make it right. Personally, while I know that I will still be able to tear through content even with these nerfs, I'm far less motivated to play now knowing the money grubbing nature of the dev team. There is zero chance I'll ever spend any more money and I'll just play casually as new content rolls out. This global nerf combined with things like the never ending warp out bug and general boredom are helping me find time for other games. I see my STO time being greatly reduced even though I can find ways around most of the nerfs.

    I have pretty much just had it with Cryptic's shoddy development team and money grubbing strategies.
    Insert witty signature line here.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    My entire build that I spent over 3500 hours of time and money on perfecting is now getting nerfed. They want to bring everyone down to the level of the casual player. STO is done. Put a fork in it.


    What they want, is to reset our spending cycle. All, from the lips of Spartan himself, with malice aforethought. Having us spend money on the power creep, then -- very deliberately -- invalidate our stuff afterwards, so they can start selling power creep to us again. I should have seen the cycle coming when Bort killed Intel.

    Why, I drafted many a post about Spartan et al., all of which would get me perma-banned instantly, I can assure you. Instead, I've simply decided not to give them any more of my money. They have swindled me for the last time. 'Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.' and all that.

    Totally agreed.

    I have played this game a long time and I have seen the cycle before, but never quite like this. There is nothing 'balancing' about this patch, it's a blanket nerf to all the big selling items. Simply put, they waited until everyone already had these items and now that they have the money it's time to reduce their effectiveness. Then you release new items to replace the old ones, get people to buy those, rinse and repeat.

    That's exactly the thing! I mean, if I could look back on this, saying "Wow, at least my Engineer is doing as good as a Rom Tact Captain now!", then there would have been a balance pass! What we got, however, is just a money-grubbing nerfing of everything good. And I didn't sign up for that.
    This global nerf combined with things like the never ending warp out bug and general boredom are helping me find time for other games. I see my STO time being greatly reduced even though I can find ways around most of the nerfs.

    Yeah, that's the other thing: saying 'Uh, I dunno' when it comes to the warp-out bug, which has been plaguing this game for over a year now, but they have the time and skill to uproot the whole system for this across-the-board nerf BS?!

    And don't get me started on pets. How's about they fix my detachable pets (saucers and such) first?! And by 'fix' I mean, don't SAY you fixed it, but actually do it.
    I have pretty much just had it with Cryptic's shoddy development team and money grubbing strategies.

    Indeed.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    This is the part in the TV show where I wonder if the people wailing and lamenting have actually mathed any of the changes....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    nikephorus wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    jslyn wrote: »
    I do believe that AHOD is a C-Store Ship Trait and not Lockbox Ship Trait. It is a waste of $35 USD rather than millions of EC.

    So, "Player investment retains value" was just a bold-face lie then. Amirite!?
    Leech, from what I hear, only has the Self-Buff limited to +6. The enemy still has the same Drain Hit as they did before.

    Who cares about how much you drain a NPC!? Leech has always been about, you know, leeching power.
    And, honestly, +6 is not bad as that is +6 per Subsystem, so an effective +24 Power.

    On my Rom, starting with -40, +6 per subsystem is a joke. And, it's effectively +6, as 'vertical' is really the only meaningful measure.

    I agree with most of this... AOD nerf doesn't matter cause its c-store so affordable and doesn't matter? Nerf to leech is definitely a really huge nerf for romulans who suffer low subsystem power.

    Have none of you ever heard of the term "trade-off"? Think long and hard about all the things Romulans as a faction get in return for that lower subsystem power. Are you really going to tell me that single sacrifice is unreasonable for the return?

    The amount of whining from people who unrealistically want every simultaneous advantage the game offers while giving nothing up is unbelievable.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
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  • sarah2774sarah2774 Member Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited March 2017

    yeesh, that's...major overkill

    for those levels, they ought to make it usable on allies for use on the transport in the (hopefully) returning NWS​​
    Definitely is overkill. I swapped out my enhanced neutroniums for sif generators during the buff. While they give more hull restoration, you lose the damage resistance buff. The hull healed in the miracle worker is like 4x what my ship normally has lol.

    shhh don't use overkill word, cryptic likes to nerf.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    My entire build that I spent over 3500 hours of time and money on perfecting is now getting nerfed. They want to bring everyone down to the level of the casual player. STO is done. Put a fork in it.


    What they want, is to reset our spending cycle. All, from the lips of Spartan himself, with malice aforethought. Having us spend money on the power creep, then -- very deliberately -- invalidate our stuff afterwards, so they can start selling power creep to us again. I should have seen the cycle coming when Bort killed Intel.

    Why, I drafted many a post about Spartan et al., all of which would get me perma-banned instantly, I can assure you. Instead, I've simply decided not to give them any more of my money. They have swindled me for the last time. 'Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.' and all that.

    Totally agreed.

    I have played this game a long time and I have seen the cycle before, but never quite like this. There is nothing 'balancing' about this patch, it's a blanket nerf to all the big selling items. Simply put, they waited until everyone already had these items and now that they have the money it's time to reduce their effectiveness. Then you release new items to replace the old ones, get people to buy those, rinse and repeat.

    They can get away with it, but that doesn't make it right. Personally, while I know that I will still be able to tear through content even with these nerfs, I'm far less motivated to play now knowing the money grubbing nature of the dev team. There is zero chance I'll ever spend any more money and I'll just play casually as new content rolls out. This global nerf combined with things like the never ending warp out bug and general boredom are helping me find time for other games. I see my STO time being greatly reduced even though I can find ways around most of the nerfs.

    I have pretty much just had it with Cryptic's shoddy development team and money grubbing strategies.
    If a major change to big nerfs really will end up alienating players that like to pay-for-power, it might be good for the game, because then Cryptic can stop selling power and work harder to keep things balanced (and off course, explore new revenue streams, which is of course a great unknown).

    Space Barbie players are unaffected and keep buying sexy new ships, and PvP might become more popular again when the item and power balance gets a bit better.

    But to be honest,I doubt that many people will end up leaving or stopping to buy stuff in STO. People already suspected great ruination from previous patches (like the last skill revamp), and every time it's unprecedented and the end of the world for the game.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • borgresearcherborgresearcher Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    i hope subnuke, now that it is a boff power, gets kinda nerfed, like removes 3buffs mk1 and 5buffs mk3, coz... pvp wise, 5 tacs with 5 nukes smells bad... very bad... aux2sif jam doff still needs a nerf, elachi hole is still op af... lots of stuff still needs to be adressed, but this is the way to go, props
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    the romulan version just does it better: +30% damage bonus instead of +15% (and the duration can be extended on the romulan version) and around 1K more stealth, so harder chance of being spotted - not that anything can see you in PvE anyway, even if you're sitting right on top of them​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,788 Arc User
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    Here's the one I made for the science command cruiser: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/22f791bb296e8817adc72e80410938a6

    That one should be the most up to date.


    A very Pineapple Salad trait line. It looks like ought to pretty much refill your hit points when you hit the near-dead mark.

    Would not Scramble Sensors be better than Jam Sensors for a healer? That would protect your nearby team mates rather than just you.

    How did you get 'Deprogrammed' as a Fed? I thought that was a Romulan-only Trait.
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