As originator of this thread, I would like to request therefore, that discussions on this topic is to cease, and for the conversation to go back to the topic at hand; finding comparisons between Dr Who and Star Trek to discuss them like reasonable individuals.
The original point of this thread was you thinking the Cybermen are copies of the Borg then being corrected on that. You then turned it into a weird rant on post 2005 Who.
If anyone wishes to continue their conversations amongst themselves privately, please do so, but I don't wish to discuss that topic further and would really just like to bring my thread back on topic, before this situation gets any further out of hand.
Fair doos. No Doctor Who does not have Borg envy...
...Hmm, I think we're in a time loop of sorts.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
As originator of this thread, I would like to request therefore, that discussions on this topic is to cease, and for the conversation to go back to the topic at hand; finding comparisons between Dr Who and Star Trek to discuss them like reasonable individuals.
The original point of this thread was you thinking the Cybermen are copies of the Borg then being corrected on that. You then turned it into a weird rant on post 2005 Who.
If anyone wishes to continue their conversations amongst themselves privately, please do so, but I don't wish to discuss that topic further and would really just like to bring my thread back on topic, before this situation gets any further out of hand.
Fair doos. No Doctor Who does not have Borg envy...
...Hmm, I think we're in a time loop of sorts.
It is your comments to which tilarta is objecting. Please let the issue drop.
Has it been considered that it is possible to start another thread to discuss the opinions which are derailing the topic?
The only way to interpret this situation is that by continuing to respond here instead of taking it to another thread is indicative of a desire to be argumentative with those who hold alternative views, not discuss the topic like rational contributors.
If the intent was to convince me that NuWho is worth investigating, then all that has been achieved is to push me away from it forever, based on the misconduct being exhibited here. Honey should have been used, not more vinegar.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
If the intent was to convince me that NuWho is worth investigating, then all that has been achieved is to push me away from it forever, based on the misconduct being exhibited here. Honey should have been used, not more vinegar.
Frankly... judge it for yourself rather than let others cloud your judgement based on what they say.
Me personally, I liked David Tennant as the 10th Doctor. Took me a long time to get used to Matt Smith as 11th, and Peter Capaldi as 12th is pretty good. Also there was that special with Tennant AND Smith working together as their respective Doctors.
As for the derailing argument about the Daleks... while they are powerful and came close to destroying all of reality, they do have a weakness. Arrogance. They believe they can not be stopped by anyone, and that is usually their downfall. They always underestimate their opponent. And so... they will never achieve their goals because they don't learn from that fundimental failure. Just like the Goa'uld in Stargate, a superiority complex is an achilles heel level weakness.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
that, and their inability to adapt to changing situations - though apophis did at least try with creating that super ha'tak, and anubis succeeded for the most part; he obtained immunity to tollan ion cannons (which also had the side effect of rendering most asgard weaponry impotent), he created super soldiers that were blindly loyal to him and he nearly succeded in wiping out all life in the milky way via the dakara superweapon - something no other goa'uld ever thought to do, despite dakara being a goa'uld world for many thousands of years...
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
that, and their inability to adapt to changing situations - though apophis did at least try with creating that super ha'tak, and anubis succeeded for the most part; he obtained immunity to tollan ion cannons (which also had the side effect of rendering most asgard weaponry impotent), he created super soldiers that were blindly loyal to him and he nearly succeded in wiping out all life in the milky way via the dakara superweapon - something no other goa'uld ever thought to do, despite dakara being a goa'uld world for many thousands of years...
The other Goa'uld may not have wanted to wipe out all life. Remember, they think they're gods. What good is a god with no worshipers?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
the dakara weapon doesn't just wipe out life - it also creates it, so any other goa'uld could've just created new life after using the weapon; worshippers beholden to only one 'god' because all the other 'gods' would be reconstituted as those worshippers
why reconstituted? because the dakara weapon is basically a galaxy-wide genesis device
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
From what I gather, the power demands of the SuperHatak weapon were so great, it was only with the eight eye crystals or naquadriah that it could be powered.
When both of those of those were lost, it was just a really big ship.
I assumed there was a limit to the defences fabricated, they developed a shield that could protect them from the weapons of one outdated Asgard science vessel, but apparently not two brand new Asgard warships.
As the commander put it "the capabilities of these vessels far exceed that of the one you priorly faced. If you engage us in combat, I cannot guarantee your survival".
Followed by the Gou'uld in question deciding this was a good time to leave, although they weren't happy about it!
As for the Dakara superweapon, the Goa'uld simply did not know it was there.
They thought it was just a building, they never found the master control unit or anything that indicated the true purpose of the structure.
Teal'c says something to the effect of the Joa'phur having recommenced searching once they reclaimed it and they still didn't find the control room.
It was only when Anubis ascended and gained the "knowledge of the Ancients" that he became aware of the structure's actual purpose.
And ultimately, had Anubis not ascended at all, then all the technological inventions he created would not have existed at all, since he used Ancient science as the basis for many, if not all of them.
Post edited by tilarta on
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
@tilarta Anubis' superweapon != Apophis' prototype (which is presumably what shadowfang was talking about). That being said, that 'really big ship' was still the most powerful craft in his fleet.
It was a Goa'uld shield enhanced with Ancient tech, allowing it to withstand more firepower - nothing more. Also, the Beliskner is still very much a warship - just not fresh off the assembly line like the two O'Neills that came after it.
Yes, Dakara was definitely an unknown element - but one still has to wonder if they'd have tried to use it if they did know.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
the dakara weapon doesn't just wipe out life - it also creates it, so any other goa'uld could've just created new life after using the weapon; worshippers beholden to only one 'god' because all the other 'gods' would be reconstituted as those worshippers
why reconstituted? because the dakara weapon is basically a galaxy-wide genesis device
Not automatically. You have to pre-program it to do the thing before activating it. Not only would the Goa'uld need to know how to program the superweapon for two different outputs, they would also need to know how to rewire a stargate to dial every other gate at once. Only Ba'al and Anubis knew that one.
More importantly, none of the other Goa'uld were energy beings. They wouldn't survive the process.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
the dakara weapon doesn't just wipe out life - it also creates it, so any other goa'uld could've just created new life after using the weapon; worshippers beholden to only one 'god' because all the other 'gods' would be reconstituted as those worshippers
why reconstituted? because the dakara weapon is basically a galaxy-wide genesis device
Not automatically. You have to pre-program it to do the thing before activating it. Not only would the Goa'uld need to know how to program the superweapon for two different outputs, they would also need to know how to rewire a stargate to dial every other gate at once. Only Ba'al and Anubis knew that one.
More importantly, none of the other Goa'uld were energy beings. They wouldn't survive the process.
Nerus, actually. IIRC he's the one who came up with the dialing program. (The superweapon programming you're absolutely right about, though.)
Not true. Aside from being able to make sure you're not in range of a targeted gate when it happens (either by just being that far out or by cutting your gates off like Ba'al was trying to do in late SG-1), there's also the superweapon control room being shielded from its effects as demonstrated when the Jaffa were trying to wipe out Ori troops.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Lets put it back on track with another convergence, the Federation's section 31 http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Section_31 and the Time lord's Celestial Intervention Agency http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Celestial_Intervention_Agency
Two secret organisations designed to give those they serve deniability and willing to go to any lengths to achieve their goals.
Those lengths including genocide of the Founders for Section 31 and the prevention of the creation of the Daleks for the CIA (yes, it was the CIA that was responsible for starting the Time War)
I'm not dismissing Gaiman's claim not to have heard of the Borg that cavalierly. Sometimes convergent ideas just happen.
Case in point: At roughly the same time that the Who episode "Blink", introducing the Weeping Angels, was being written, someone completely different created what became the very first SCP Foundation item, SCP-173, the Statue. The basic concept, a statue that only moves when you're not looking and kills you, is virtually identical, but in each case was created with no input from the other.
Enh, my conclusion was that the Dakara device was a giant planetary defense battery. I mean it was built by the Ancients... the same race that refused to use the San Greal device to kill their enemies the Ori.
Anyways, the idea of stone statues coming to life to attack people isn't really a new concept. There's not a whole lot of forms it can take.... as evidence... I present: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6gpndlepiM
What? she's not made of stone? meh... a minor detail.
it was neither a superweapon (though that's what it ended up being used as) nor a planetary defense - it was meant to be used to restore life to the milky way in the event of loss of life on a galactic scale
such as what happened the FIRST time the ori plague hit the galaxy millions of years prior
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Anyways, the idea of stone statues coming to life to attack people isn't really a new concept. There's not a whole lot of forms it can take.... as evidence... I present: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6gpndlepiM
What? she's not made of stone? meh... a minor detail.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Anyways, the idea of stone statues coming to life to attack people isn't really a new concept. There's not a whole lot of forms it can take.... as evidence... I present: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6gpndlepiM
What? she's not made of stone? meh... a minor detail.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
I was referring to the movie that was used as a reference. I'm familiar with the concept of stone coming to life. One classic example is probably the Gargoyle.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Daniel Jackson does a bit of exposition about the Dakara superweapon, he says while it can set the rules for the new life to exist as you want it to, you still have to wait for it to emerge naturally. Anubis being immortal can afford to wait the millions of years that would take.
But a regular Goa'uld has a maximum lifespan of somewhere around 10,000 years, using the Sarcophagus device to heal themselves and their host regularly. It is stated that Lord Yu is getting senile and that this is his age.
The Tok'ra who do not use this device, only have a life expectancy of 2000 years and they have to change partners every 200 years. Selmac reached this limit onscreen and because she'd held on longer to her partner then she should have to commit every last second of her life to fighting their enemies, they died together.
So a mortal Goa'uld just doesn't have the longevity to wait it out until the new life arises again.
I had confused Aphosis' flagships with Anubis' flagship, sorry.
But as far as I can tell, the only thing that made Aphosis' Hataks different was that it had a superior FTL drive, because it crosses the distance it takes a regular Hatak months in 2 days.
An Asgard drive can travel between galaxies in months. An Zero Point boosted drive can make the same journey in 2 days.
And it was a companion technical manual that identified the Belisknir as a science vessel. Sometimes I have wondered if the authors of these works make stuff up, because it does get invalidated by canon sometimes.
And since we're on that subject, I wonder why every sci-fi franchise has different rules for FTL travel.
Star Trek is the most realistic, but also the slowest, as it takes a Starfleet vessel 70 years at maximum warp speed just to cross from one quadrant to another.
Dark Matter refers to galaxy wide travel, but if you have a Blink Drive (prototype space/time jumping device), your ship can move from one place in the galaxy to another instantly without having to travel through physical space.
Defiance states that it took the Votan fleet 5000 years to get from their homeworld to our planet. They had to travel from the centre of the galaxy to the rim. I assume they didn't have true FTL drives, so they may not count.
Deepwater 2 can travel at speeds that allows it to get completely outside known space in months and that's at cruising speed!
The captain states that they can go much faster if they activate their timeblink drive, but as that's harder to control, they only use it sparingly for short jumps. The reason why isn't given directly, but it's implied if you don't emerge into open space while timeblinking, there is a risk of the vessel crashing into a object in your path, like an asteroid, moon or planet. Since they didn't clarify if Deepwater left the galaxy or the universe, I have no data on how far it can travel, but the first novel ends with it flying into "the chaos of creation" outside normal space.
The fastest ships I know of are Luminan, they can cross several galaxies in hours, perhaps as few as 1-3. Refenced onscreen because they expect the ship they contacted to arrive more or less instantly.
I have no data on Doctor Who or Star Wars, as far as I know, they were more foccussed on the story then the actual time it took for ships to get from point A to point B.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
star wars hyperdrives are relatively fast, since the millennium falcon manged a trip from tatooine (on the edges of the outer rim, rather close to wild space, in fact) to alderaan deep within the core worlds in about a day - assuming alderaan is still in the same place in the galaxy it was in the legends maps (since it doesn't show up on the new canon map) and assuming The Galaxy is roughly the size of the milky way, that's a distance of about 40-50,000 lightyears - and they can't just go in a straight line either, since you have to follow an established hyperlane to get around unless you feel like tempting fate
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I'm not dismissing Gaiman's claim not to have heard of the Borg that cavalierly. Sometimes convergent ideas just happen.
Case in point: At roughly the same time that the Who episode "Blink", introducing the Weeping Angels, was being written, someone completely different created what became the very first SCP Foundation item, SCP-173, the Statue. The basic concept, a statue that only moves when you're not looking and kills you, is virtually identical, but in each case was created with no input from the other.
Like Deep Space Nine and Babylon 5
Yes, convergent ideas do just happen. In Academy Daze, I cast Alexander Skarsgard and Margot Robbie as I'sH'd and Sh''Rr'y... Some time later, they appear oposite each other as Tarzan and Jane...
What I find unlikely, is an expert in their field, not having heard of something significant in said field. I admit, it's not impossible, I just find it highly unlikely, and find it more likely, that Gaiman is simply saying that to deflect criticism...
I would not have equated Section 31 to the Celestial Intervention Agency.
Section 31 is a rogue organization, not a legimate Starfleet or Federation agency.
The CIA has had a few rogue operatives in their time http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Torvald and even the Master once worked for them briefly, I'm not comparing the agencies themselves in this example, just the deniability that both organisations share with their governments
I would not have equated Section 31 to the Celestial Intervention Agency.
Section 31 is a rogue organization, not a legimate Starfleet or Federation agency.
No it's not. Section 31 is built into Starfleet's charter, they have the position to requisition Federation equipment, classify Starfleet Medical documents, have authority over Starfleet Security, give orders to people like Ross, have their headquarters in London, own their own starships, oh yeah, and have a Starbase orbiting Jupiter building dreadnoughts which are commissioned by Starfleet Command as evidenced by Marcus having such a prototype on his desk at SC.
Section 31 is official. The only person who thinks otherwise is Bashir and that's only until Inter Armi Whatsit where he realises Ross is taking orders from them. Sisko obviously cottons on earlier as his investigation was shut down by official channels.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
have their headquarters in London, own their own starships, oh yeah, and have a Starbase orbiting Jupiter building dreadnoughts which are commissioned by Starfleet Command as evidenced by Marcus having such a prototype on his desk at SC.
That's the Kelvin timeline, in the Prime Timeline Sloane says (in DS9 episode Extreme Measures) that Section 31 has no headquarters (that's if he's telling the truth)
Comments
Facts have been provided. You not liking them does not remove them.
An example of those very facts.
The original point of this thread was you thinking the Cybermen are copies of the Borg then being corrected on that. You then turned it into a weird rant on post 2005 Who.
Nobody here is in conflict except you.
Fair doos. No Doctor Who does not have Borg envy...
...Hmm, I think we're in a time loop of sorts.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It definitely has all the hallmarks of a chronic hysteresis http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_loop
The only way to interpret this situation is that by continuing to respond here instead of taking it to another thread is indicative of a desire to be argumentative with those who hold alternative views, not discuss the topic like rational contributors.
If the intent was to convince me that NuWho is worth investigating, then all that has been achieved is to push me away from it forever, based on the misconduct being exhibited here.
Honey should have been used, not more vinegar.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Frankly... judge it for yourself rather than let others cloud your judgement based on what they say.
Me personally, I liked David Tennant as the 10th Doctor. Took me a long time to get used to Matt Smith as 11th, and Peter Capaldi as 12th is pretty good. Also there was that special with Tennant AND Smith working together as their respective Doctors.
As for the derailing argument about the Daleks... while they are powerful and came close to destroying all of reality, they do have a weakness. Arrogance. They believe they can not be stopped by anyone, and that is usually their downfall. They always underestimate their opponent. And so... they will never achieve their goals because they don't learn from that fundimental failure. Just like the Goa'uld in Stargate, a superiority complex is an achilles heel level weakness.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The other Goa'uld may not have wanted to wipe out all life. Remember, they think they're gods. What good is a god with no worshipers?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
why reconstituted? because the dakara weapon is basically a galaxy-wide genesis device
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
When both of those of those were lost, it was just a really big ship.
I assumed there was a limit to the defences fabricated, they developed a shield that could protect them from the weapons of one outdated Asgard science vessel, but apparently not two brand new Asgard warships.
As the commander put it "the capabilities of these vessels far exceed that of the one you priorly faced. If you engage us in combat, I cannot guarantee your survival".
Followed by the Gou'uld in question deciding this was a good time to leave, although they weren't happy about it!
As for the Dakara superweapon, the Goa'uld simply did not know it was there.
They thought it was just a building, they never found the master control unit or anything that indicated the true purpose of the structure.
Teal'c says something to the effect of the Joa'phur having recommenced searching once they reclaimed it and they still didn't find the control room.
It was only when Anubis ascended and gained the "knowledge of the Ancients" that he became aware of the structure's actual purpose.
And ultimately, had Anubis not ascended at all, then all the technological inventions he created would not have existed at all, since he used Ancient science as the basis for many, if not all of them.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
*edit*, actually, this is a far better solution, thank you
It was a Goa'uld shield enhanced with Ancient tech, allowing it to withstand more firepower - nothing more. Also, the Beliskner is still very much a warship - just not fresh off the assembly line like the two O'Neills that came after it.
Yes, Dakara was definitely an unknown element - but one still has to wonder if they'd have tried to use it if they did know.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Not automatically. You have to pre-program it to do the thing before activating it. Not only would the Goa'uld need to know how to program the superweapon for two different outputs, they would also need to know how to rewire a stargate to dial every other gate at once. Only Ba'al and Anubis knew that one.
More importantly, none of the other Goa'uld were energy beings. They wouldn't survive the process.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Nerus, actually. IIRC he's the one who came up with the dialing program. (The superweapon programming you're absolutely right about, though.)
Not true. Aside from being able to make sure you're not in range of a targeted gate when it happens (either by just being that far out or by cutting your gates off like Ba'al was trying to do in late SG-1), there's also the superweapon control room being shielded from its effects as demonstrated when the Jaffa were trying to wipe out Ori troops.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
but this is kind of getting off topic - the thread is supposed to be about doctor who and star trek, after all
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Two secret organisations designed to give those they serve deniability and willing to go to any lengths to achieve their goals.
Those lengths including genocide of the Founders for Section 31 and the prevention of the creation of the Daleks for the CIA (yes, it was the CIA that was responsible for starting the Time War)
Case in point: At roughly the same time that the Who episode "Blink", introducing the Weeping Angels, was being written, someone completely different created what became the very first SCP Foundation item, SCP-173, the Statue. The basic concept, a statue that only moves when you're not looking and kills you, is virtually identical, but in each case was created with no input from the other.
Anyways, the idea of stone statues coming to life to attack people isn't really a new concept. There's not a whole lot of forms it can take.... as evidence... I present:
What? she's not made of stone? meh... a minor detail.
My character Tsin'xing
such as what happened the FIRST time the ori plague hit the galaxy millions of years prior
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Wow... I've never even heard of that one...
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Stones coming to life and attacking people, that's happened in Doctor Who http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Ogri
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Star Trek references and concepts in Doctor Who http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek
Doctor Who references and concepts in Star Trek http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Who
But a regular Goa'uld has a maximum lifespan of somewhere around 10,000 years, using the Sarcophagus device to heal themselves and their host regularly. It is stated that Lord Yu is getting senile and that this is his age.
The Tok'ra who do not use this device, only have a life expectancy of 2000 years and they have to change partners every 200 years. Selmac reached this limit onscreen and because she'd held on longer to her partner then she should have to commit every last second of her life to fighting their enemies, they died together.
So a mortal Goa'uld just doesn't have the longevity to wait it out until the new life arises again.
I had confused Aphosis' flagships with Anubis' flagship, sorry.
But as far as I can tell, the only thing that made Aphosis' Hataks different was that it had a superior FTL drive, because it crosses the distance it takes a regular Hatak months in 2 days.
An Asgard drive can travel between galaxies in months. An Zero Point boosted drive can make the same journey in 2 days.
And it was a companion technical manual that identified the Belisknir as a science vessel. Sometimes I have wondered if the authors of these works make stuff up, because it does get invalidated by canon sometimes.
And since we're on that subject, I wonder why every sci-fi franchise has different rules for FTL travel.
Star Trek is the most realistic, but also the slowest, as it takes a Starfleet vessel 70 years at maximum warp speed just to cross from one quadrant to another.
Dark Matter refers to galaxy wide travel, but if you have a Blink Drive (prototype space/time jumping device), your ship can move from one place in the galaxy to another instantly without having to travel through physical space.
Defiance states that it took the Votan fleet 5000 years to get from their homeworld to our planet. They had to travel from the centre of the galaxy to the rim. I assume they didn't have true FTL drives, so they may not count.
Deepwater 2 can travel at speeds that allows it to get completely outside known space in months and that's at cruising speed!
The captain states that they can go much faster if they activate their timeblink drive, but as that's harder to control, they only use it sparingly for short jumps. The reason why isn't given directly, but it's implied if you don't emerge into open space while timeblinking, there is a risk of the vessel crashing into a object in your path, like an asteroid, moon or planet. Since they didn't clarify if Deepwater left the galaxy or the universe, I have no data on how far it can travel, but the first novel ends with it flying into "the chaos of creation" outside normal space.
The fastest ships I know of are Luminan, they can cross several galaxies in hours, perhaps as few as 1-3. Refenced onscreen because they expect the ship they contacted to arrive more or less instantly.
I have no data on Doctor Who or Star Wars, as far as I know, they were more foccussed on the story then the actual time it took for ships to get from point A to point B.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Yes, convergent ideas do just happen. In Academy Daze, I cast Alexander Skarsgard and Margot Robbie as I'sH'd and Sh''Rr'y... Some time later, they appear oposite each other as Tarzan and Jane...
What I find unlikely, is an expert in their field, not having heard of something significant in said field. I admit, it's not impossible, I just find it highly unlikely, and find it more likely, that Gaiman is simply saying that to deflect criticism...
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
The CIA has had a few rogue operatives in their time http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Torvald and even the Master once worked for them briefly, I'm not comparing the agencies themselves in this example, just the deniability that both organisations share with their governments
No it's not. Section 31 is built into Starfleet's charter, they have the position to requisition Federation equipment, classify Starfleet Medical documents, have authority over Starfleet Security, give orders to people like Ross, have their headquarters in London, own their own starships, oh yeah, and have a Starbase orbiting Jupiter building dreadnoughts which are commissioned by Starfleet Command as evidenced by Marcus having such a prototype on his desk at SC.
Section 31 is official. The only person who thinks otherwise is Bashir and that's only until Inter Armi Whatsit where he realises Ross is taking orders from them. Sisko obviously cottons on earlier as his investigation was shut down by official channels.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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That's the Kelvin timeline, in the Prime Timeline Sloane says (in DS9 episode Extreme Measures) that Section 31 has no headquarters (that's if he's telling the truth)