Apparently some folks think "military" = "evil". It's an amusingly naive position, which can become irritating if repeated often enough, much like a toddler's first naughty word.
I believe Starfleet's General Order 24 is compketely destroying the surface of a planet.
It was never spelled out, but it the contexts it was invoked in involved obliterating a civilization. Garth carried it out and apparently wiped out an entire race. Kirk used it (as a show of force) in response to a race attacking the Enterprise.
No one saying they're military is denying their other roles. Its just some people clinging to a few contradictory statements that fly in the face of observable fact, canonical statements, and common sense insisting that they aren't military at all.
Because the military is a filthy, dirty, scary thing we should just all evolve out of into a mysteriously happy fluffy universe where no one would ever want to harm us. Because TOS and its spiritual heirs are just SOOOO 60's.
If you remove all combat related duties from a present military they stop being a military. They merely engage in non-military scientific tasks and humanitarian aid missions because they have the manpower and gear available and on site. If you do the same to Starfleet nothing in their primary mission changes. They provide defense because with everything they do they have the manpower and gear available and on site.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If you remove all combat related duties from a present military they stop being a military. They merely engage in non-military scientific tasks and humanitarian aid missions because they have the manpower and gear available and on site. If you do the same to Starfleet nothing in their primary mission changes. They provide defense because with everything they do they have the manpower and gear available and on site.
I'm guessing you've never served, because that statement started at wrong and went downhill from there.
I really don't see how this is so difficult to understand. Starfleet is a MULTI-ROLE service with a quasi-military structure and a wide variety of tasks and missions under its umbrella. Yes, defense is ONE of them, but it is only one of many. To look at that and say "ah ha! See, they ARE a military!" is as narrow and distorted a view as looking at the hundreds or thousands of cargo vessels they run and say they're a shipping company. Starfleet does it ALL. And they are not any one of those many mission responsibilities, they are the sum of all of them.
However, if any one can be defined as their primary one, it is space exploration in the interest of science, a direct carry on of NASA's mission. That's in the opening monologue of every episode! How much more do they have to spell it out for you? It doesn't say "to protect and defend" or "to defeat all enemies", it says
To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before!
Anything else is secondary at best.
At various points in human history military organizations have conducted exploration. They also regularly conduct humanitarian missions. And make no mistake, Starfleet is more concerned with defense than exploration, even though exploration is one of it's biggest drivers. If an armada of Klingon Battlecruisers was flying directly towards Andoria, do you think any nearby ships conducting survey missions or something would be allowed to finish what their doing? No, Starfleet Command would order them to immediately gather with all other available ships to repel the Klingons, and the survey would be finished after the crises was over.
The exploration missions depicted in TOS and TNG were conducted during times of relative peace, once the Dominion War kicked off exploration was put on the back burner, and rightly so.
Obviously if someone is trying to kill you it's kind of important to stop what you're doing and take care of that before getting back to it. That doesn't make it your primary job, just a vital necessity of the moment.
Again, defense is PART of Starfleet's mission list but it has been stated time and again that the primary mission is scientific exploration of space. Alongside that, it does pretty much everything ELSE you need spaceships for as well. Starfleet does everything. To pretend they are merely a military / defense organization is to overlook everything else that comprises them to focus on one and only one aspect. As I said, it's as foolish as looking at all their cargo vessels and concluding they're a shipping company.
Merely a military?? You DO realize modern militaries do all of these things as well, right?
The only things starfleet does that modern militaries do not do are things that, at this point in time, only exist in science fiction, like regularly making first contact with alien species. Science, space, exploration, etc, all of these are things modern militaries either are working on, or have done in the past (there's not much left to explore on earth, and our ability to explore space is extremely limited at this point).
I challenge you to A.) list some things modern militaries do that Starfleet does not, and B.) list some (realistic) things starfleet does that modern militaries do not do.
I'm guessing you've never served, because that statement started at wrong and went downhill from there.
You're simply, in my opinion, misinterpreting the situation. You assume by following the non-military route people are somehow speaking negatively about militaries. For you, obviously, it is a strong personal desire to counter this attitude which I can completely understand. But at least from me I'm not even arguing in that direction.
What stands is that Starfleet is not a military organization. This is made clear throughout incarnations of Star Trek via exposition dialogue. These are not single opinions because this is not how screenwriting works. You mentioned Data being called non-sentient by Dr. Pulaski. This is not exposition, this is dialogue used in a plot. There are different elements used in writing of a play which you have to treat differently, because Star Trek just doesn't show random people talking their way as if it was a reality show, it is a written play with conditions set by the writing. I said it before, the notion that Starfleet is not a military orgaization has been reinforced by exposition dialogue a few times now. When we now put together the nature of Starfleet which we only get glimpses here and there we have to put those statements at the very base of that oservation and go from there.
I realize that for you this is a emotional debate, for me it's not. I can only repeat the same things I've said over all the years on this forum once again, you repeat the same things you've said again and nobody will change their point of view. So maybe it's just best to agree to disagree here and no feelings are hurt.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I really don't see how this is so difficult to understand. Starfleet is a MULTI-ROLE service with a quasi-military structure and a wide variety of tasks and missions under its umbrella. Yes, defense is ONE of them, but it is only one of many. To look at that and say "ah ha! See, they ARE a military!" is as narrow and distorted a view as looking at the hundreds or thousands of cargo vessels they run and say they're a shipping company. Starfleet does it ALL. And they are not any one of those many mission responsibilities, they are the sum of all of them.
However, if any one can be defined as their primary one, it is space exploration in the interest of science, a direct carry on of NASA's mission. That's in the opening monologue of every episode! How much more do they have to spell it out for you? It doesn't say "to protect and defend" or "to defeat all enemies", it says
To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before!
Anything else is secondary at best.
Just food for thought, not everything the US Military does is attack attack attack.
Nasa pilots? oh wait Military pilots.
John C Stennis Oceanographic center. Who runs that? Oh wait the US NAVY.
Tsunami in Phuket Thailand, 2005. Who did the Humanitarian Assistance Operation? Oh wait that's right 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit.
Hurrican Katrina, which 2 MEUs showed up for humanitarian assistance? Oh waith that's right 11th MEU and 2-4 MEU.
Not everything a military does is "go here, blow this up".
If you take away disaster relief or exploration from the US military, it still would be the US military.
If you take away exploration and scientific research from Starfleet, it would no longer be Starfleet.
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I really don't see how this is so difficult to understand. Starfleet is a MULTI-ROLE service with a quasi-military structure and a wide variety of tasks and missions under its umbrella. Yes, defense is ONE of them, but it is only one of many. To look at that and say "ah ha! See, they ARE a military!" is as narrow and distorted a view as looking at the hundreds or thousands of cargo vessels they run and say they're a shipping company. Starfleet does it ALL. And they are not any one of those many mission responsibilities, they are the sum of all of them.
However, if any one can be defined as their primary one, it is space exploration in the interest of science, a direct carry on of NASA's mission. That's in the opening monologue of every episode! How much more do they have to spell it out for you? It doesn't say "to protect and defend" or "to defeat all enemies", it says
To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before!
Anything else is secondary at best.
Just food for thought, not everything the US Military does is attack attack attack.
Nasa pilots? oh wait Military pilots.
John C Stennis Oceanographic center. Who runs that? Oh wait the US NAVY.
Tsunami in Phuket Thailand, 2005. Who did the Humanitarian Assistance Operation? Oh wait that's right 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit.
Hurrican Katrina, which 2 MEUs showed up for humanitarian assistance? Oh waith that's right 11th MEU and 2-4 MEU.
Not everything a military does is "go here, blow this up".
If you take away disaster relief or exploration from the US military, it still would be the US military.
If you take away exploration and scientific research from Starfleet, it would no longer be Starfleet.
Funny, I seem to remember it still being called Starfleet during the Dominion War, and there wasn't exactly much exploration going on at that time ...
military
ˈmɪlɪt(ə)ri/Submit
adjective
1.
relating to or characteristic of soldiers or armed forces.
1.
the armed forces of a country (Federation).
To make it clearer:
Is Starfleet armed? Of course they are.
Which affiliation do they serve in the interests of? The Federation.
I mean, if Starfleet aren't the military branch of the Federation, then why do they keep getting involved in all the wars? Why are they dealing with Romulan incursions of the Neutral zone? What a blunder it was when they rallied at Wolf 359 instead of retreating letting the actual military (that no one has seen) do their job.
We're overthinking it all. It's as easy and clear as that definition makes it.
military
ˈmɪlɪt(ə)ri/Submit
adjective
1.
relating to or characteristic of soldiers or armed forces.
1.
the armed forces of a country (Federation).
To make it clearer:
Is Starfleet armed? Of course they are.
Which affiliation do they serve in the interests of? The Federation.
I mean, if Starfleet aren't the military branch of the Federation, then why do they keep getting involved in all the wars? Why are they dealing with Romulan incursions of the Neutral zone? What a blunder it was when they rallied at Wolf 359 instead of retreating letting the actual military (that no one has seen) do their job.
We're overthinking it all. It's as easy and clear as that definition makes it.
This is not a matter of definition. It is entirely irrelevant how anyone would define a military, the work in question defines Starfleet as a non-military organization which however substitutes for the UFPs armed forces in case of a conflict. Since real life examples are unable to fit the canonical evidence it must be concluded that Starfleet is a organization different from the narrow definition we know.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You're simply, in my opinion, misinterpreting the situation. You assume by following the non-military route people are somehow speaking negatively about militaries. For you, obviously, it is a strong personal desire to counter this attitude which I can completely understand. But at least from me I'm not even arguing in that direction.
No... I just find it tedious when people who seemingly don't know THING ONE about what the military actually does make statements about "taking away the military duties and it's not military anymore". Guess what, the US Navy and Army haven't been engaged in constant maneuver warfare for 240 continuous years and they never stopped being military. It not a hat you put on only after the shooting starts. The training is there plain as day in the show. The crew of the Enterprise - even the love-boat Enterprise C - display military discipline in combat. Along with military rank structure, military MISSIONS, and fight battles with full-fledged purpose-built military warships of similar size and tech level.
When it quacks like a duck and leaves duck TRIBBLE all over the place, it's a duck.
What stands is that Starfleet is not a military organization. This is made clear throughout incarnations of Star Trek via exposition dialogue.
And it's made EQUALLY CLEAR they ARE, you're just selectively editing that dialogue out of your argument so you don't have to weigh it in the balance. Yes, there are contradictory statements, but the fact remains there is NO OTHER AGENCY in the setting to act as the military, and Star Fleet serves as the go to navy every single time someone attacks the Federation. Or even makes the Federation nervous. Explorers don't patrol. Patrollers sometimes explore.
Or have you just decided that David Marcus was just talking out his backside when he says "Scientists have always been pawns of the military." Because I doubt anyone failed to understand he was talking about Star Fleet. Though some may willfully ignore it.
Or oh, I dunno, pretty much everything about Captain Edward Jellico. Episodes which (while sporting some terrible writing for Riker, who should NEVER have to have a bluff explained to him) is pretty much wall to wall "cripes, this place is run as a hotel, not a Star Fleet ship"
We see captains scripting personal combat patterns and I hate to say it but the 'Picard Maneuver' isn't a handshake.
So yes, I DO find it offensive that the underlying tone of many episodes and the fans that cling to them slavishly is that "oh, we're just too enlightened to have something as crass and brutal as a 'military'..." and then go right on having a setting where the need for one never, ever lets up.
I really don't see how this is so difficult to understand. Starfleet is a MULTI-ROLE service with a quasi-military structure and a wide variety of tasks and missions under its umbrella. Yes, defense is ONE of them, but it is only one of many. To look at that and say "ah ha! See, they ARE a military!" is as narrow and distorted a view as looking at the hundreds or thousands of cargo vessels they run and say they're a shipping company. Starfleet does it ALL. And they are not any one of those many mission responsibilities, they are the sum of all of them.
However, if any one can be defined as their primary one, it is space exploration in the interest of science, a direct carry on of NASA's mission. That's in the opening monologue of every episode! How much more do they have to spell it out for you? It doesn't say "to protect and defend" or "to defeat all enemies", it says
To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before!
Anything else is secondary at best.
Just food for thought, not everything the US Military does is attack attack attack.
Nasa pilots? oh wait Military pilots.
John C Stennis Oceanographic center. Who runs that? Oh wait the US NAVY.
Tsunami in Phuket Thailand, 2005. Who did the Humanitarian Assistance Operation? Oh wait that's right 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit.
Hurrican Katrina, which 2 MEUs showed up for humanitarian assistance? Oh waith that's right 11th MEU and 2-4 MEU.
Not everything a military does is "go here, blow this up".
If you take away disaster relief or exploration from the US military, it still would be the US military.
If you take away exploration and scientific research from Starfleet, it would no longer be Starfleet.
Funny, I seem to remember it still being called Starfleet during the Dominion War, and there wasn't exactly much exploration going on at that time ...
Actually, there was. Even by the ship that's inofficially a warship that was used to guard the most important strategic position in the entire war. The Defiant was send to investigate a subspace compression anomaly.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
You're missing the point entirely. A military, any military, has defense and strategic operations as the primary mission and reason for being. Starfleet's primary mission is scientific space exploration, as stated numerous times in canon which you seem to willfully ignore.
Starfleet's list of mission statements might look like this:
1: TO EXPLORE SPACE IN SEARCH OF KNOWLEDGE AND SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT
1b: To initiate First Contact with all interstellar civilizations unknown to us, in service to mission 1.
and in no particular order
* Maintain full diplomatic relations with all other known civilizations and be prepared for other diplomatic functions of all kinds
* Administer a colonization program to spread population to currently uninhabited worlds and support both our own colonies and those of private entities.
* Provide search and rescue services for all space under our jurisdiction
* Enforce Federation law in interstellar space within Federation borders
* Conduct general scientific research in all branches and technological research and development
* Provide for the defense of Federation territory and citizenry in coordination with the local defense fleets and planetary defense systems of member worlds
* Provide medical services to all member worlds and colonies as well as any citizen or being in need
* Administrate a cargo and supply fleet to service our own base infrastructure as well as other colonies and worlds in need beyond what private trade can provide
* Provide passenger services for interstellar travel
* Build and maintain Starbases and other vital space infrastructure
1: TO EXPLORE SPACE IN SEARCH OF KNOWLEDGE AND SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT
1b: To initiate First Contact with all interstellar civilizations unknown to us, in service to mission 1.
and in no particular order
* Maintain full diplomatic relations with all other known civilizations and be prepared for other diplomatic functions of all kinds
Militaries already do diplomatic functions like "showing the flag"
* Administer a colonization program to spread population to currently uninhabited worlds and support both our own colonies and those of private entities.
Again military support in those functions.
* Provide search and rescue services for all space under our jurisdiction
You honestly don't think that the US military does S&R? I don't think the coast guard is always on call 5000 miles from home. And what do the Air force Para Jumpers do?
* Enforce Federation law in interstellar space within Federation borders
No different than the US Navy doing the same maratime enforcement currently
* Conduct general scientific research in all branches and technological research and development
Every branch of the US Military does this already
* Provide for the defense of Federation territory and citizenry in coordination with the local defense fleets and planetary defense systems of member worlds
Gee same thing US Military does
* Provide medical services to all member worlds and colonies as well as any citizen or being in need
Sounding like a broken record but the US Miltary does this as well.
* Administrate a cargo and supply fleet to service our own base infrastructure as well as other colonies and worlds in need beyond what private trade can provide
Gee wonder what MAC flights are. US Airforce does the same thing
* Provide passenger services for interstellar travel
Actually no they don't. They only provide space travel for signatories, VIP and Starfleet/Military personnel. Gee much like our military does now
* Build and maintain Starbases and other vital space infrastructure
Nothing the US Military and or National guard doesn't do now
and the list goes on and on and on...
All this TRIBBLE shows you really don't know everything a Military does.
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Directive 010: "Before engaging alien species in battle, any and all attempts to make first contact and achieve nonmilitary resolution must be made."
Why would you even need to say that? Unless many of your captains DON'T think of themselves as diplomats first and foremost. I guess some of the 'explorers' were a little too eager to open up discussions with a hail of phaser fire .
Directive 010: "Before engaging alien species in battle, any and all attempts to make first contact and achieve nonmilitary resolution must be made."
Why would you even need to say that? Unless many of your captains DON'T think of themselves as diplomats first and foremost. I guess some of the 'explorers' were a little too eager to open up discussions with a hail of phaser fire .
What we call "Rules of Engagement". Even the US Military has them.
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Most militaries do. Sorry if the sarcasm was insufficiently dripping . Most explorers don't need a pre-established protocol for going to war. Usually "if they try to kill you, run" will suffice.
Most militaries do. Sorry if the sarcasm was insufficiently dripping . Most explorers don't need a pre-established protocol for going to war. Usually "if they try to kill you, run" will suffice.
Just re-enforcing the point. Amazing how many military things a non-military force has. But some people will cling to anything so they don't have to deal with that ugly word....military.
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Comments
My character Tsin'xing
Because the military is a filthy, dirty, scary thing we should just all evolve out of into a mysteriously happy fluffy universe where no one would ever want to harm us. Because TOS and its spiritual heirs are just SOOOO 60's.
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I'm guessing you've never served, because that statement started at wrong and went downhill from there.
Merely a military?? You DO realize modern militaries do all of these things as well, right?
The only things starfleet does that modern militaries do not do are things that, at this point in time, only exist in science fiction, like regularly making first contact with alien species. Science, space, exploration, etc, all of these are things modern militaries either are working on, or have done in the past (there's not much left to explore on earth, and our ability to explore space is extremely limited at this point).
I challenge you to A.) list some things modern militaries do that Starfleet does not, and B.) list some (realistic) things starfleet does that modern militaries do not do.
You're simply, in my opinion, misinterpreting the situation. You assume by following the non-military route people are somehow speaking negatively about militaries. For you, obviously, it is a strong personal desire to counter this attitude which I can completely understand. But at least from me I'm not even arguing in that direction.
What stands is that Starfleet is not a military organization. This is made clear throughout incarnations of Star Trek via exposition dialogue. These are not single opinions because this is not how screenwriting works. You mentioned Data being called non-sentient by Dr. Pulaski. This is not exposition, this is dialogue used in a plot. There are different elements used in writing of a play which you have to treat differently, because Star Trek just doesn't show random people talking their way as if it was a reality show, it is a written play with conditions set by the writing. I said it before, the notion that Starfleet is not a military orgaization has been reinforced by exposition dialogue a few times now. When we now put together the nature of Starfleet which we only get glimpses here and there we have to put those statements at the very base of that oservation and go from there.
I realize that for you this is a emotional debate, for me it's not. I can only repeat the same things I've said over all the years on this forum once again, you repeat the same things you've said again and nobody will change their point of view. So maybe it's just best to agree to disagree here and no feelings are hurt.
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If you take away exploration and scientific research from Starfleet, it would no longer be Starfleet.
Funny, I seem to remember it still being called Starfleet during the Dominion War, and there wasn't exactly much exploration going on at that time ...
ˈmɪlɪt(ə)ri/Submit
adjective
1.
relating to or characteristic of soldiers or armed forces.
1.
the armed forces of a country (Federation).
To make it clearer:
Is Starfleet armed? Of course they are.
Which affiliation do they serve in the interests of? The Federation.
I mean, if Starfleet aren't the military branch of the Federation, then why do they keep getting involved in all the wars? Why are they dealing with Romulan incursions of the Neutral zone? What a blunder it was when they rallied at Wolf 359 instead of retreating letting the actual military (that no one has seen) do their job.
We're overthinking it all. It's as easy and clear as that definition makes it.
This is not a matter of definition. It is entirely irrelevant how anyone would define a military, the work in question defines Starfleet as a non-military organization which however substitutes for the UFPs armed forces in case of a conflict. Since real life examples are unable to fit the canonical evidence it must be concluded that Starfleet is a organization different from the narrow definition we know.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
No... I just find it tedious when people who seemingly don't know THING ONE about what the military actually does make statements about "taking away the military duties and it's not military anymore". Guess what, the US Navy and Army haven't been engaged in constant maneuver warfare for 240 continuous years and they never stopped being military. It not a hat you put on only after the shooting starts. The training is there plain as day in the show. The crew of the Enterprise - even the love-boat Enterprise C - display military discipline in combat. Along with military rank structure, military MISSIONS, and fight battles with full-fledged purpose-built military warships of similar size and tech level.
When it quacks like a duck and leaves duck TRIBBLE all over the place, it's a duck.
And it's made EQUALLY CLEAR they ARE, you're just selectively editing that dialogue out of your argument so you don't have to weigh it in the balance. Yes, there are contradictory statements, but the fact remains there is NO OTHER AGENCY in the setting to act as the military, and Star Fleet serves as the go to navy every single time someone attacks the Federation. Or even makes the Federation nervous. Explorers don't patrol. Patrollers sometimes explore.
Or have you just decided that David Marcus was just talking out his backside when he says "Scientists have always been pawns of the military." Because I doubt anyone failed to understand he was talking about Star Fleet. Though some may willfully ignore it.
Or oh, I dunno, pretty much everything about Captain Edward Jellico. Episodes which (while sporting some terrible writing for Riker, who should NEVER have to have a bluff explained to him) is pretty much wall to wall "cripes, this place is run as a hotel, not a Star Fleet ship"
We see captains scripting personal combat patterns and I hate to say it but the 'Picard Maneuver' isn't a handshake.
So yes, I DO find it offensive that the underlying tone of many episodes and the fans that cling to them slavishly is that "oh, we're just too enlightened to have something as crass and brutal as a 'military'..." and then go right on having a setting where the need for one never, ever lets up.
Actually, there was. Even by the ship that's inofficially a warship that was used to guard the most important strategic position in the entire war. The Defiant was send to investigate a subspace compression anomaly.
I'd copy paste but it's stupidly long. It definitely sounds like the sort of thing a real military would have.
My character Tsin'xing
All this TRIBBLE shows you really don't know everything a Military does.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Why would you even need to say that? Unless many of your captains DON'T think of themselves as diplomats first and foremost. I guess some of the 'explorers' were a little too eager to open up discussions with a hail of phaser fire
What we call "Rules of Engagement". Even the US Military has them.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Just re-enforcing the point. Amazing how many military things a non-military force has. But some people will cling to anything so they don't have to deal with that ugly word....military.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Blue-water naval patrols.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!