Proof that Starfleet is a naval force (military)

oliviaclaire

This naturally goes for both, STO and Star Trek.

TOS: "Tomorrow is Yesterday"

CHRISTOPHER: Must have taken quite a lot to build a ship like this.
KIRK: There are only twelve like it in the fleet.
CHRISTOPHER: I see. Did the Navy
KIRK: We're a combined service, Captain. Our authority is the United Earth Space Probe Agency.

This proves that they are at least a navy in a "combined service".

United Earth Space Probe Agency

UESPA (pronounced "you-spah") was [. . .] one of several names given in early episodes for the agency under which the Enterprise and its crew operated before writers finally settled on "Starfleet".

TAS: "The Counter-Clock Incident"

APRIL: I was there in the San Francisco Navy Yards when her unit components were built. [referring to the Enterprise]

Star Trek: The Animated Series

With the release of The Animated Series DVD, the studio appears to have changed its stance, and is leaning towards the animated series being part of established Star Trek canon.

TOS: "Catspaw"

DESALLE: Maybe we can't break it, but I'll bet you credits to navy beans we can put a dent in it.

Navy bean

It is commonly known as the "Navy Bean" due to its use as a staple of United States Navy rations in the 19th century.

Star Trek: Generations, 19th century naval uniforms.



DS9: "Rapture"

WORF: That will not do. Rifkin commands a starship. Protocol requires he be given equal quarters.
ODO: But he's only a captain.
WORF: It is naval tradition.

DS9: "Behind the Lines"

DAX: Are you two ever going to be finished?
NOG: Just a few more minutes, Commander.
O'BRIEN: That's Captain. It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as Captain.

Navy

A navy or maritime force is a fleet of waterborne military vessels (watercraft) and its associated naval aviation, both sea-based and land-based. [. . .] recent developments have included space-related operations.

[. . .]

In most nations, the term "naval", as opposed to "navy", is interpreted as encompassing all maritime military forces, e.g., navy, marine / marine corps, and coast guard forces.

In the case of Starfleet, it is a fleet of spaceborne military vessels (spacecraft). A real-life navy includes non-combat duties too, but it's still a military service.

USS Enterprise (CVN-65) was an aircraft carrier and the flagship of Nuclear Task Force One in the United States Navy. It is one of the drawings on the ship wall in Star Trek: The Motion Picture and in Captain Archer's ready room (pictured below):



Star Trek's USS Enterprise carries shuttlecraft, so it's a carrier too.

Naval officers first attend a naval college or academy such as the United States Naval Academy. This corresponds to Starfleet Academy in Star Trek.

Therefore, Starfleet is a naval force in space that combines military forces such as navy, marine corps and coast guard. It also means that the Federation is a militaristic society.

This should settle it.


UPDATE:

Starfleet Marine Corps

Colonel West, reinstated in the VHS version of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

While identified in dialogue as a "colonel", West wore the uniform of a Starfleet vice admiral (equivalent to a lieutenant general).

EDIT: Removed the references to "Operation Retrieve", as it wasn't the original prop used in the film.

With the exception of this case, Starfleet doesn't use "colonel" as a rank, yet Colonel West is a Starfleet officer, which in this case can only be Marine Corps.

Oh, by the way, this is not a ship of exploration:




UPDATE:

Navy

In modern usage "navy" used alone always denotes a military fleet.

Additionally, "the Navy" in TOS: "Tomorrow is Yesterday" was a specific reference to the U.S. Navy, which is a military service.

This should settle any confusion about other types of navies.


UPDATE:

Militarism

• the opinions or actions of people who believe that a country should use military methods, forces, etc., to gain power and to achieve its goals
  
• predominance of the military class or its ideals
  
• exaltation of military virtues and ideals
  
• a policy of aggressive military preparedness

Star Trek has been predominantly about Starfleet and its ideals, a military organization that the Federation uses to achieve its goals, despite the existence of Federation civilians who captain non-Starfleet ships. Therefore, the Federation is a militaristic society.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (canon)



David Marcus.

CHEKOV (on viewscreen): The order comes from Admiral James T. Kirk.
DAVID: I knew it! I knew it! All along the military has wanted to get their han... [referring to Starfleet]

[. . .]

DAVID: I've tried to tell you before. Scientists have always been pawns of the military [referring to Starfleet].

David Marcus was a Federation scientist who worked on Project Genesis.

TNG: "The Measure of a Man" (canon)



Captain Phillipa Louvois, Starfleet Officer Judge Advocate General.

PHILLIPA: I am in charge of the Twenty third Sector JAG office. We're brand new.

[. . .]

PHILLIPA: When I prosecuted you in the Stargazer court martial, I was doing my job.
PICARD: Oh, you did more than your job. You enjoyed it.
PHILLIPA: Not true! A court martial is standard procedure when a ship is lost. I was doing my duty as an officer of the Judge Advocate General.

[. . .]

PHILLIPA: So you came to me for help.
PICARD: Yes, I came to you. You're the JAG officer for this sector. I had no choice but to come to you.

Judge Advocate General's Corps

Judge Advocate General's Corps, also known as JAG or JAG Corps, refers to the legal branch or specialty of a military concerned with military justice and military law.

Court-martial

A court-martial (plural courts-martial, as "martial" is postpositive) is a military court.

[. . .]

Most navies have a standard court-martial which convenes whenever a ship is lost.

Therefore, Starfleet is a military organization at all times. It also means that Picard and Scotty were lying.




UPDATE:

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (transcript)

AIDE-DE-CAMP: This briefing is classified. Ladies and Gentlemen, the C-in-C.
C in C: As you were. I'll break this information down succinctly. The Klingon Empire has roughly fifty years of life left. ...For full details, I am turning this briefing over to Federation Special Envoy.

[. . .]

MILITARY AIDE: Bill, are we talking about mothballing the Starfleet?

AIDE-DE-CAMP

aide-de-camp (ād′dĭ-kămp′)
n. pl. aides-de-camp

A military officer acting as secretary and confidential assistant to a superior officer of general or flag rank.

C in C

commander in chief
n. pl. commanders in chief Abbr. CINC or C in C

1. The supreme commander of all the armed forces of a nation.
2. The officer commanding a major armed force.

Military aide: a military assistant.

Mothballed: a term for a reserve fleet.

A reserve fleet is a collection of naval vessels of all types that are fully equipped for service but are not currently needed, and thus partially or fully decommissioned. A reserve fleet is informally said to be "in mothballs" or "mothballed".

More evidence that Starfleet is a navy; therefore, a military force.

TNG: "The Perfect Mate"

KAMALA: Perhaps the ambassador is right. Perhaps I should remain in my quarters.
PICARD: I have confidence in the self-control of my crew, Kamala, but there are guests and civilians on board.

A clear line of dialogue that Picard doesn't consider the crew of the Enterprise to be civilians.

DS9: "The Sound of Her Voice"

KASIDY: I'm a civilian. Isn't it awkward having me aboard a warship?
O'BRIEN: We've had civilians aboard before. It doesn't bother me.

A clear line of dialogue that O'Brien doesn't consider the crew of the Defiant to be civilians.

Paramilitary:

paramilitary ‎(plural paramilitaries)

1. A group of civilians trained and organized in a military fashion, but which do not represent the formal forces of a sovereign power.
2. (colloquial) A member of a paramilitary group.

TNG: "Preemptive Strike"

GUL EVEK: The fact that my ship was attacked suggests that your efforts have met with limited success. They came at us with photon torpedoes and type eight phasers. Tell me, Captain, how do you suppose that a group of civilians acquired such weaponry?
PICARD: I can assure you it was not through official channels.
GUL EVEK: So you don't think the fact that some of the Maquis are former Starfleet officers has anything to do with it?
PICARD: Starfleet does not condone the Maquis' actions in the Demilitarised Zone any more than your government would condone the paramilitary actions of Cardassian civilians.

A clear evidence that Starfleet is not a paramilitary.

Rick Berman Talks 18 Years of Trek In Extensive Oral History

Berman notes that veterans feel Sisko is "the most believable" as a military commander of the Star Trek captains.

Rick Berman

Richard Keith "Rick" Berman (born December 25, 1945) is an American television producer. He is best known for his work as the executive producer of several of the Star Trek series, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek: Voyager; and several of the Star Trek theatrical productions, and for succeeding Gene Roddenberry as head of the Star Trek franchise, until the cancellation of Star Trek: Enterprise in 2005.

What would he know, right?

Star Trek: Into Darkness

SCOTT: That's what scares me. This is clearly a military operation. ls that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers.
KIRK: Sign for the torpedoes, that's an order.
SCOTT: Right, well, you leave me no choice but to resign my duties.
KIRK: Oh, come on, Scotty.
SCOTT: You're giving me no choice, sir. I will not stand by
KIRK: You're not giving me much of a choice. Will you just make an exception and sign
SCOTT: Do you accept my resignation or not?
KIRK: I do!
KIRK: I do. You are relieved, Mister Scott.

Maybe Starfleet hasn't told Scotty it's a "paramilitary" yet?

Star Trek is being shown in the present and uses the language of the present such as court-martial. What some posters are essentially suggesting is that people need a special dictionary that discards the existing dictionaries, just to be able to properly watch the show. It doesn't work like that.


UPDATE:

Don't you see where this is going?



A "GLOBAL" force?

Coronado Naval Base, San Diego:





For "GOOD", indeed.

[Fascist] Symbols in the US Military: “Accidental” Giant US Navy Swastika Building Was No Accident.



Signed off on March 5, 1968 by United States Rear Admiral Robert Reynolds Wooding.

Was Star Trek created to promote American fascism under the guise of "democracy"?


UPDATE:

STO Wiki: Aegis Technological Research

The Aegis Technological Research is a set of three items that are available from high-end R&D.

Wikipedia: Aegis Combat System

The Aegis Combat System is an integrated naval weapons system developed by the Missile and Surface Radar Division of RCA, and now produced by Lockheed Martin. It uses powerful computer and radar technology to track and guide weapons to destroy enemy targets.

"USS Lake Champlain, a Ticonderoga-class Aegis guided missile cruiser, launched in 1987."

United States Marine Corps promotional images:




Star Trek Online-related image:



Memory Beta: MACO

The MACO motto was Semper Invictus, Latin for "forever invincible". (ENT - The Romulan War novel: Beneath the Raptor's Wing, STO novel: The Needs of the Many)

Wikipedia: Semper fidelis

Semper fidelis is a Latin phrase that means "always faithful" or "always loyal". In the United States it is best known as the motto of the United States Marine Corps.

The same theme.


UPDATE:

Robert Fletcher’s Costume Design – Forgotten Trek

When Meyer joined the production, he had some very specific ideas about what he wanted to see in the costumes.

I decided that this was going to be Hornblower in outer space, so I said, ‘OK, if this is going to be the navy, let’s hem them look like the navy; they shouldn’t be walking around in pyjamas,’ which seemed to me to be what the uniforms in the first movie and the TV show looked like.

Fletcher then designed several variations of the uniform, most of which were worn by Kirk and not by the other characters.

It’s normal in any kind of military organization that you don’t have just one uniform; you have uniforms for specific tasks and specific times of day — formal, informal, combat, and so on. Kirk is the lead, so he goes through the most variations. When it seemed appropriate, he had a change.

More evidence.


UPDATE:

TNG: "Time's Arrow, part 2"

CLEMENS: Well, I know what you say, that this is a vessel of exploration and that your mission is to discover new worlds.
CLEMENS: That's what the Spanish said.
[. . . ]
CLEMENS: And the Dutch and the Portuguese. It's what all conquerors say.

There were periods in Earth's history when the navies were dedicated to exploration, which was also used as a euphemism for colonial conquest. Additionally, Starfleet has JAG officers who administer courts-martial, no matter what its mission is.


UPDATE:

Memory Alpha: Reserve activation clause

The reserve activation clause was a Starfleet regulation which was in force during the 2270s. Described as "little-known" and "seldom-used," the clause provided for the recall of a discharged or retired Starfleet officer to active duty in response to a crisis or emergency.

In the mid-2270s, Fleet Admiral Nogura, at the request of Rear Admiral James T. Kirk, recalled Leonard McCoy to active duty in the Starfleet using the reserve activation clause. Upon reporting to the USS Enterprise, Doctor McCoy stated "In simpler language... they drafted me!" (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)

UPDATE:

TNG: "Hide and Q"

PICARD: Why? At our first meeting you seized my vessel.

[. . .]

Q: Seized my vessel. These are the complaints of a closed mind too accustomed to military privileges.

baudl

didn't know that this was even debated

"It also means that the Federation is a militaristic society."
No it doesn't, that was simply your conclusion. Starfleet is however not the same as the UFP... Starfleet is the name of the military of the UFP.
In other words: If UFP was a country, Starfleet would be its army. Starfleet is not the governing body of the UFP.
The assumption that since we only ever see TV shows, games based around Starfleet, and therefore their society is based around Starfleet is wrong. The viewer is always given the perspective of a Starfleet officer or crew, when in reality what we see is only a small spectrum of the UFP citizens.

mustrumridcully0

Carriers?




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkRJoPzT6gs

Unknown

This content has been removed.

jade1280

Starfleet
The high horse moral long arm of the human race.

comrademoco

I thought this was common knowledge...


uuuuhhh!

K

Mmk

leemwatson

Err.....we knew this already, like 30 years ago!

Starfleet is the military part of the UFP, BUT not all Starfleet ships are 'military' vessels such as the Oberth (Science) and Daedalus (Medical) Class ships. Starfleet does alot of exploration and science missions too you know.

szim

Oh Olivia. You're gonna have to try a lot harder if you want to start a forum fire. Your facts are nothing but cold coffee...

fmgtorres1979

There's no water though, so maybe....

snoggymack22

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the navy beans comment can be removed from the examples though as it's just an expression or euphemism. While I like the cut of this thread's jib, I'm pretty sure the navy beans comment is surplus to requirements.

thelordofshades

navy (ˈneɪvɪ)
n, pl -vies
1. (Military) the warships and auxiliary vessels of a nation or ruler
2. (Military) the navy (often capital) the branch of a country's armed services comprising such ships, their crews, and all their supporting services and equipment
3. (Colours) Also: navy blue dark blue

4. archaic or literary A FLEET OF SHIPS

5. (as modifier): a navy custom.


I.e. Navy not necessarily = military.
Dictionary is power.

brian334

Wait, an armed uniformed service is military? Let me check my Funk and Wagnalls... yep, that is pretty much the definition of a military force.

claudiusdk

While debating if its a military force or not... Shouldn't we also look at the fact we are calling ships, when they are techically more like submarines ?

(BTW I do know they are SPACE ships, not sail ship. But still.)

Unknown

This content has been removed.

jtoon74

You also have to remeber that Starfleet ships are a mutli mission entities, they do whatever they need to do at the time. The exceptions are the later generation of ships like the U.S.S. Defiant which where created for to fight against foes like the Dominion aant the Borg, when more combat orientated ships had to be created for more dangerous foes.

khan5000

In other news...water is wet

iconians

claudiusdk wrote: »

While debating if its a military force or not... Shouldn't we also look at the fact we are calling ships, when they are techically more like submarines ?

(BTW I do know they are SPACE ships, not sail ship. But still.)

So, would that make them Spacemarines?​​

thelordofshades

iconians wrote: »

So, would that make them Spacemarines?​​

* Imagines Kirk in a bulky ugly armour, crying a "FOR THE EMPERAAAAAH!!!!" *

evilmark444

This thread will heat up once more of the Starfleet=military deniers get wind of it and start posting examples of in-universe characters making the delusional claim that starfleet is not a military organization. In preparation of that argument, I'd like to state that the belief of a few individuals does not make it true, especially when all other evidence points to Starfleet being the Federation's military.

Also, military organizations can, and do, conduct humanitarian missions, and also took part in exploration a long time ago, so these things do not rule it out as a military.

misterferengi

Starfleet is a military organisation a very relaxed one but they are a military, the TOS Movies show they are far more than the TNG which blurred the lines but DS9 very much defined starfleet as the military, the coast guard/police forces when a war breaks out don't go on the offensive and take action against the opposing nation. Only the Military do which starfleet has been show to do against the Klingons/Romulans/Tholians/Dominion Alliance/Cardassians to name a few.

Starfleet field and maintain a large armada of ships which are very well armed for a so called non-military, charged with the defence of the Federation, they use military type rank and command structure, They have military type trials, they have different departments, such as medical, operations, tactical and command. TheY fight the Federations wars on the front lines.

In peace time they operative like a modern navy being used for research and exploration, humanitarian aid and patrol against piracy and general peacekeeping/deterrence

alexraptorr

Starfleet isn't a military, it has been explicitly stated time and again, even as recently as Star Trek Beyond.

hypl

*scratches head*

Okay then.

trennan

Starfleet is the Military Force of the Federation. It's primary focus however is exploration, not war. Roddenberry himself said he thought of Starfleet as the Coast Guard. So this is nothing new. The debate happens over size and strength that happens. Which it's stated, the actual military force of Starfleet is small. To end this simple debate over how big the military force is. Anytime you think that Starfleet is the big dog on the block. Remember, by the storyline, in game, all players count a one Captain. This means if there's 10,000,000 Federation players, they're all the same 1 by the storyline. This means that Starfleet is the smallest and youngest military force. Which is why Starfleet has to hide behind the Klingons and Romulans. Remember, Starfleet still hasn't fully recovered from the Dominion War, which would have been lost without the Klingons and Romulans. Nor have they fully recovered from the loss of 40% of Starfleet during the Borg Invasion.


And if you go here. You'll see the rank structure is the exact same for Starfleet, as it is for the U.S. Navy. With TOS adding Lieutenant Junior Grade. They finally use all of them.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ranks/officers/o-rank.html

evilmark444

alexraptorr wrote: »

Starfleet isn't a military, it has been explicitly stated time and again, even as recently as Star Trek Beyond.

Whatever character said that was both overly idealistic and delusional.

angrytarg

evilmark444 wrote: »

alexraptorr wrote: »

Starfleet isn't a military, it has been explicitly stated time and again, even as recently as Star Trek Beyond.

Whatever character said that was both overly idealistic and delusional.

That's not how canon works. You have to accept exposition dialogue, not ignore it for the sake of your own headcanon.

valoreah wrote: »

I don't see any of those examples proving Starfleet is a military organization.

Also this.​​

jaguarskx

Hey, thanks for providing me with proof that Starfleet is a military operation.

After watching the various TV series, movies and leveling several Federation captains up to level 60, I had always thought Starfleet was more like the Girl Scouts.

antonine3258

I can understand the first part (Starfleet's duties include exploration and defense), but I'm not sure how you get the Federation is a militaristic society from Starfleet fulfilling its defense obligations (if anything, in TOS, the Federation is primarily an economic entity - there's a lot of trading, sometimes of unusual rarities beyond the frontier).

angrytarg

antonine3258 wrote: »

I can understand the first part (Starfleet's duties include exploration and defense), but I'm not sure how you get the Federation is a militaristic society from Starfleet fulfilling its defense obligations (if anything, in TOS, the Federation is primarily an economic entity - there's a lot of trading, sometimes of unusual rarities beyond the frontier).

I suspect the OP is unaware of what "militaristic society" means. In general, a whole lot of this debate is based on misconception of terms.​​

evilmark444

antonine3258 wrote: »

I can understand the first part (Starfleet's duties include exploration and defense), but I'm not sure how you get the Federation is a militaristic society from Starfleet fulfilling its defense obligations (if anything, in TOS, the Federation is primarily an economic entity - there's a lot of trading, sometimes of unusual rarities beyond the frontier).

It's not a militaristic society, no one has compared Starfleet to North Korea or Imperial Japan. It is a military organization that adheres to military customs and traditions and performs all the duties of a military.

angrytarg wrote: »

evilmark444 wrote: »

alexraptorr wrote: »

Starfleet isn't a military, it has been explicitly stated time and again, even as recently as Star Trek Beyond.

Whatever character said that was both overly idealistic and delusional.

That's not how canon works. You have to accept exposition dialogue, not ignore it for the sake of your own headcanon.

This is not about headcanon, it's about common sense. Aside from the delusional comments of a few overly idealistic Starfleet Officers, please give me one shred of evidence that even suggests Starfleet might not be a military.

anazonda

Starfleet is the extended arm of the federation...

If they want rescue, their ships are rescue ships...
If they want exploration, their ships are exploration ships...
If they want war, their ships are war ships...

Proof?

The Galaxy Class.

angrytarg

evilmark444 wrote: »

This is not about headcanon, it's about common sense. Aside from the delusional comments of a few overly idealistic Starfleet Officers, please give me one shred of evidence that even suggests Starfleet might not be a military.

None is required as the source material says it. What you have to do now, "connecting the dots" is to from there. The conclusion that can be drawn from canon is that Starfleet is a non-military combined service unifying a broad array of duties under the roof of a explorative space service with a paramilitary structure that continues ancient naval traditions and uses certain terms associated with them but also in a different context.

Star Trek is fiction. Starfleet is fictional. It does not fit with real-life definitions, if you have to ignore exposition given in the work in question to make it fit your definition than you are in the wrong. That's not meant rude, it's a fact. This is the same with technology used in Star Trek. When they say you devolve into a lizard breaching the threshold of a certain speed than this is true for the world of Star Trek. It defying anything we know about real life science is irrelevant.​​