rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
edited June 2016
Kirk's birth isn't really an issue. The stress his mother came under when the Kelvin was attacked could have sent her into Labor early. Had they not been attacked, she might have made it back to Earth and Kirk would have been born in Iowa.
And how do you explain Sela? She was born to an alternate Tasha Yar. So technically from Yesterday's Enterprise, we were in an alternate universe as Tasha Yar had died, yet is also the mother of Sela.
Star Trek is no stranger to branching realities. Think about that episode with Worf jumping between realities. There was one where the Enterprise barely survived the Borg, there was one with Riker as Captain of the Enterprise because Picard died, there was the one that Worf originally came from...
When Spock and Nero went back in time. They also went to a different Universe Reality as well. That is not part of the "Prime" Time and Reality. The Kelvin was a different ship than what the Prime had in that time. Thus that alone made it a different Reality from the start. The Uniforms was the 2nd clue. Then the Ceti Eel they used on Pike. Where in TWOK they showed and told how the Eel works on mind control later killing the host. Even if you do go back in time and change events. No were that would change the biology of humans and animals. More like how events unfolded and changed from what it should been. That alone also shows proof on not being the "Prime Reality". Final none of the TOS series character look and act the same. So once again you have a whole different group. Cause you can't change DNA and biology just going back in time.
All we know is that they traveled to a place that looked like the 23rd Century Federation. It is just as likely that they didn't travel back in time, but just traveled to a universe that looked like the 23rd Century. There is also the difference between both Kirk's birthplace and time and Caitians. Changing the past in Star Trek is usually permanent unless the hero goes back in time to save their familiar present with The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, Children of Time, and Storm Front. Alternate Kirk was born on January 4 in one of USS Kelvin's shuttle while Kirk was born on March 22 in Iowa. Caitians in Into Darkness don't have any fur. This is why I will use Kelvin Universe and not Kelvin Timeline for the new alternative reality.
The Caitians could easily be explained as a hairless breed.
Even easier. They aren't Caitians.
For goodness sake, that's even less of an issue than the size of the ship. The only reference to them being Caitians is some guy in an interview with the answer 'sure, why not'.
Not all aliens with catlike features are Caitians, the catgirl from V had three TRIBBLE for goodness sake, but people have been calling her a Caitian for decades because they suffer from a crippling lack of imagination or scope.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Kirk's birth isn't really an issue. The stress his mother came under when the Kelvin was attacked could have sent her into Labor early. Had they not been attacked, she might have made it back to Earth and Kirk would have been born in Iowa.
And how do you explain Sela? She was born to an alternate Tasha Yar. So technically from Yesterday's Enterprise, we were in an alternate universe as Tasha Yar had died, yet is also the mother of Sela.
Star Trek is no stranger to branching realities. Think about that episode with Worf jumping between realities. There was one where the Enterprise barely survived the Borg, there was one with Riker as Captain of the Enterprise because Picard died, there was the one that Worf originally came from...
2.5 months premature? I could understand a couple of weeks early, but a baby being born even in the 23rd Century would not look right coming out that early.
If there is an infinite number of realities, then a bunch of them will be almost identical. Even applies to our universe. If the universe is infinite, then there is a chance for there to be another Earth that is almost identical to our own in some far off galaxy and time. So there might have been a person that looks like me and has the same personality, but lived in the Andromeda Galaxy 1 million years ago.
The problem is that branching realities have some relation to an original reality. So if I reach an intersection, then 2 new realities will be created with me going left in one, going right in another, going back in a third, and screaming like a mad man in a fourth. Therefore, the amount of realities created every second would be astronomical since it would have to create an alternate reality for every choice being made in all previous alternate realities at that particular moment.
Our entire lives would be just jumping from alternate reality to alternate reality. We would only live for a brief moment in an alternate reality to be replaced by an almost identical copy in another alternate reality. So righting this post, would mean that numerous starkaoses have existed and ceased to exist since each sentence I choose to write is an event. Such a theory is extremely egotistical since it implies that the universe actually gives significance to every single event in our lives. It is about as bad as astrology. Why does the universe care enough about my life that it simulates what my life would be like if I drank Coke instead of Pepsi today? Why does a bunch of stars care enough about me that they want to make today miserable? The answer is they don't care about us to waste the effort to create alternate realities for each insignificant event or affect our luck just because a star or planet is in a certain position.
Parallel Universes, on the other hand, make far more sense. An infinite amount of realities were created from the Big Bang and some of them just so happen to be similar to our own with no new alternate realities being created due to some insignificant event. So we can have a Riker afraid of going back to his own reality due to the Borg winning, a Cardassian crew member, and one where Worf marries Troi.
The visual clues (other than the ridiculous TARDIS shuttlebay) on the hull of the Enterprise put her at 366 meters to have everything scaled properly. While larger than even a refit Prime Connie, that is still a reasonable size.
The Kelvin comes from a time not covered on screen, so uniforms and ship designs are naturally going to be up in the air. And arguing that uniforms = different universe is a sad attempt at best. How many times did the uniforms change in the TNG era? 4 times. In the span of how many years?
2350s-2365
2366
late 2360s-early 2370s
2373
We already have at least a 20 year timeline of uniform changes in TNG ALONE! That proves that uniforms can change quickly. We have no idea how long the Kelvin style uniforms had been in service. Your Cage style uniforms were said to be in service in the 2350s in the prime universe until about 2265. The Kelvin uniforms predate that by at least 20 years.
When Spock and Nero went back in time. They also went to a different Universe Reality as well. That is not part of the "Prime" Time and Reality. The Kelvin was a different ship than what the Prime had in that time. Thus that alone made it a different Reality from the start. The Uniforms was the 2nd clue. Then the Ceti Eel they used on Pike. Where in TWOK they showed and told how the Eel works on mind control later killing the host. Even if you do go back in time and change events. No were that would change the biology of humans and animals. More like how events unfolded and changed from what it should been. That alone also shows proof on not being the "Prime Reality". Final none of the TOS series character look and act the same. So once again you have a whole different group. Cause you can't change DNA and biology just going back in time.
All we know is that they traveled to a place that looked like the 23rd Century Federation. It is just as likely that they didn't travel back in time, but just traveled to a universe that looked like the 23rd Century. There is also the difference between both Kirk's birthplace and time and Caitians. Changing the past in Star Trek is usually permanent unless the hero goes back in time to save their familiar present with The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, Children of Time, and Storm Front. Alternate Kirk was born on January 4 in one of USS Kelvin's shuttle while Kirk was born on March 22 in Iowa. Caitians in Into Darkness don't have any fur. This is why I will use Kelvin Universe and not Kelvin Timeline for the new alternative reality.
The Caitians could easily be explained as a hairless breed.
Even easier. They aren't Caitians.
For goodness sake, that's even less of an issue than the size of the ship. The only reference to them being Caitians is some guy in an interview with the answer 'sure, why not'.
Not all aliens with catlike features are Caitians, the catgirl from V had three **** for goodness sake, but people have been calling her a Caitian for decades because they suffer from a crippling lack of imagination or scope.
And that is all that it takes for them to be Caitians. Until someone in authority says that they are not Caitians, then they are Caitians. However since it is the co-writer and co-producer of Into Darkness that said "Yes, we can confirm this" instead of a lazy "sure, why not", then they are Kelvin Universe Caitians. Although, I would prefer getting the Kelvin Universe Caitians over the regular version no matter what they are called.
When Spock and Nero went back in time. They also went to a different Universe Reality as well. That is not part of the "Prime" Time and Reality. The Kelvin was a different ship than what the Prime had in that time. Thus that alone made it a different Reality from the start. The Uniforms was the 2nd clue. Then the Ceti Eel they used on Pike. Where in TWOK they showed and told how the Eel works on mind control later killing the host. Even if you do go back in time and change events. No were that would change the biology of humans and animals. More like how events unfolded and changed from what it should been. That alone also shows proof on not being the "Prime Reality". Final none of the TOS series character look and act the same. So once again you have a whole different group. Cause you can't change DNA and biology just going back in time.
All we know is that they traveled to a place that looked like the 23rd Century Federation. It is just as likely that they didn't travel back in time, but just traveled to a universe that looked like the 23rd Century. There is also the difference between both Kirk's birthplace and time and Caitians. Changing the past in Star Trek is usually permanent unless the hero goes back in time to save their familiar present with The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, Children of Time, and Storm Front. Alternate Kirk was born on January 4 in one of USS Kelvin's shuttle while Kirk was born on March 22 in Iowa. Caitians in Into Darkness don't have any fur. This is why I will use Kelvin Universe and not Kelvin Timeline for the new alternative reality.
The Caitians could easily be explained as a hairless breed.
Even easier. They aren't Caitians.
For goodness sake, that's even less of an issue than the size of the ship. The only reference to them being Caitians is some guy in an interview with the answer 'sure, why not'.
Not all aliens with catlike features are Caitians, the catgirl from V had three **** for goodness sake, but people have been calling her a Caitian for decades because they suffer from a crippling lack of imagination or scope.
And that is all that it takes for them to be Caitians. Until someone in authority says that they are not Caitians, then they are Caitians. However since it is the co-writer and co-producer of Into Darkness that said "Yes, we can confirm this" instead of a lazy "sure, why not", then they are Kelvin Universe Caitians. Although, I would prefer getting the Kelvin Universe Caitians over the regular version no matter what they are called.
Um no. Caitians look like Caitians. That's why they're called Caitians. Humans with pointed ears and a tail are do not look like Caitians, so are not Caitians.
Were the called that in the film? No. Were the actors credited as that? No. So as far as canon material goes they are unnamed aliens no. 306.
No I'm sure somebody will bring up Trill, Klingons, or Gorn, the difference is that both drastically different designs of them were explicitly referred to in a canon source as being the same race.
There is absolutely nothing that has changed in the past of TAR only things in its present, ergo those humans with pointed ears and a tail can not be Caitians, a fact backed up by no canon reference to them being anything other than aliens. Also notice how no other race has changed Klingons, Romulans, Orions, Humans, Vulcans, all the same in the AR and PR.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
IMO JJ-Trek to begin with is a parallel/alternate universe (like the mirror universe), and not an alternate timeline created from Nero going back.
Too many things are diffrent right off the bat before Nero blew up the Kelvin and began to alter things.
And there are things that wouldn't have been effected even with the people from the future running around.
The tech. (even if that can be explained by the movies being made today and not in the 60s)
Kirk being born on the wrong time and place. (Still, some say it was the shock that made Kirks mom give birth almost a half year before time, or she used pregnacy delaying meds in the main universe cause she wanted Kirk to be born on Earth and not in space.)
Caitians looking more human than cat-people. (yes, those twins are caitians. No getting around that)
Alien races not even part of the federation in main universe, are suddenly are in Starfleet in JJtrek. Fx. multiple Orions running around. (But could just be few individuals that had proven themself worthy and willing to join, like Nog in DS9.)
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
When Spock and Nero went back in time. They also went to a different Universe Reality as well. That is not part of the "Prime" Time and Reality. The Kelvin was a different ship than what the Prime had in that time. Thus that alone made it a different Reality from the start. The Uniforms was the 2nd clue. Then the Ceti Eel they used on Pike. Where in TWOK they showed and told how the Eel works on mind control later killing the host. Even if you do go back in time and change events. No were that would change the biology of humans and animals. More like how events unfolded and changed from what it should been. That alone also shows proof on not being the "Prime Reality". Final none of the TOS series character look and act the same. So once again you have a whole different group. Cause you can't change DNA and biology just going back in time.
All we know is that they traveled to a place that looked like the 23rd Century Federation. It is just as likely that they didn't travel back in time, but just traveled to a universe that looked like the 23rd Century. There is also the difference between both Kirk's birthplace and time and Caitians. Changing the past in Star Trek is usually permanent unless the hero goes back in time to save their familiar present with The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, Children of Time, and Storm Front. Alternate Kirk was born on January 4 in one of USS Kelvin's shuttle while Kirk was born on March 22 in Iowa. Caitians in Into Darkness don't have any fur. This is why I will use Kelvin Universe and not Kelvin Timeline for the new alternative reality.
Very correct, which is why I been saying its like a parallel universe set up. Just going back in time don't change the biology of a person or animals. Going back in time does change events, but not the biology make up.
Also the Ceti Eel is a good one. Khan explained what they was and worked. It used babies to get into the ear and then into the brain. Where in the Kelvin Universe, they used an adult and stuff it down Pike's throat. Once again showing they just didn't go back in time only.
Also which explains why the Kirk and crew also looks and acts different. From their original counterparts. There is a lot of clues.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
When Spock and Nero went back in time. They also went to a different Universe Reality as well. That is not part of the "Prime" Time and Reality. The Kelvin was a different ship than what the Prime had in that time. Thus that alone made it a different Reality from the start. The Uniforms was the 2nd clue. Then the Ceti Eel they used on Pike. Where in TWOK they showed and told how the Eel works on mind control later killing the host. Even if you do go back in time and change events. No were that would change the biology of humans and animals. More like how events unfolded and changed from what it should been. That alone also shows proof on not being the "Prime Reality". Final none of the TOS series character look and act the same. So once again you have a whole different group. Cause you can't change DNA and biology just going back in time.
All we know is that they traveled to a place that looked like the 23rd Century Federation. It is just as likely that they didn't travel back in time, but just traveled to a universe that looked like the 23rd Century. There is also the difference between both Kirk's birthplace and time and Caitians. Changing the past in Star Trek is usually permanent unless the hero goes back in time to save their familiar present with The City on the Edge of Forever, First Contact, Children of Time, and Storm Front. Alternate Kirk was born on January 4 in one of USS Kelvin's shuttle while Kirk was born on March 22 in Iowa. Caitians in Into Darkness don't have any fur. This is why I will use Kelvin Universe and not Kelvin Timeline for the new alternative reality.
The Caitians could easily be explained as a hairless breed.
Even easier. They aren't Caitians.
For goodness sake, that's even less of an issue than the size of the ship. The only reference to them being Caitians is some guy in an interview with the answer 'sure, why not'.
Not all aliens with catlike features are Caitians, the catgirl from V had three **** for goodness sake, but people have been calling her a Caitian for decades because they suffer from a crippling lack of imagination or scope.
And that is all that it takes for them to be Caitians. Until someone in authority says that they are not Caitians, then they are Caitians. However since it is the co-writer and co-producer of Into Darkness that said "Yes, we can confirm this" instead of a lazy "sure, why not", then they are Kelvin Universe Caitians. Although, I would prefer getting the Kelvin Universe Caitians over the regular version no matter what they are called.
There is absolutely nothing that has changed in the past of TAR only things in its present, ergo those humans with pointed ears and a tail can not be Caitians, a fact backed up by no canon reference to them being anything other than aliens. Also notice how no other race has changed Klingons, Romulans, Orions, Humans, Vulcans, all the same in the AR and PR.
As I've said, considering how many people died as a result of Nero is entirely possible that the events of First Contact will never happen. If the Borg don't go back in time, numerous people who died in the prime universe (both in Montana and in the Regeneration incident) would instead be alive, which could potentially have drastic effects on the timeline from FC to the Kelvin incident. There are also numerous other temporal incidents that shaped the past of the prime universe, that likely will never happen in the JJ-verse as well. So while Nero arrived on the day Kirk was born, his actions helped shape the past of that timeline as well. So any technological inconsistencies can be explained by that.
When it comes to Caitians, seriously, considering how many breeds of cats exist on earth, why is it so hard to accept that a race we barely ever see on screen could have a hairless variation?
IMO JJ-Trek to begin with is a parallel/alternate universe (like the mirror universe), and not an alternate timeline created from Nero going back.
Too many things are diffrent right off the bat before Nero blew up the Kelvin and began to alter things.
And there are things that wouldn't have been effected even with the people from the future running around.
The tech. (even if that can be explained by the movies being made today and not in the 60s)
Kirk being born on the wrong time and place. (Still, some say it was the shock that made Kirks mom give birth almost a half year before time, or she used pregnacy delaying meds in the main universe cause she wanted Kirk to be born on Earth and not in space.)
Caitians looking more human than cat-people. (yes, those twins are caitians. No getting around that)
Alien races not even part of the federation in main universe, are suddenly are in Starfleet in JJtrek. Fx. multiple Orions running around. (But could just be few individuals that had proven themself worthy and willing to join, like Nog in DS9.)
Oh there really really is. The fact that they are not Caitians in any canon material means they are not canonically Caitians. It's really not that hard, really.
When it comes to Caitians, seriously, considering how many breeds of cats exist on earth, why is it so hard to accept that a race we barely ever see on screen could have a hairless variation?
Because they are Humans with pointed ears and tails. If you shaved M'Ress she wouldn't look like a Human with pointed ears and a tail, she still has a cats face and digigrade legs.
People are really over thinking this 'Caitian' thing.
"Why do they look so different?"
"Are they ever called Caitians in ID?"
"No."
"Problem solved."
"Why does the Kelvin look so different from other ships of the era?"
"Have we ever seen any ships from that era?"
"No."
"Problem solved"
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Or maybe those 'Caitians' are the result of some genetic experiment gone awry (like the overly complicated explanations needed to justify TOS Klingons to every other manifestation of them and not to the fact of pathetic Special Effects budgets for TOS).
Are these GMO Caitians so maybe we can start up some hysteria about that?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Or maybe those 'Caitians' are the result of some genetic experiment gone awry (like the overly complicated explanations needed to justify TOS Klingons to every other manifestation of them and not to the fact of pathetic Special Effects budgets for TOS).
Are these GMO Caitians so maybe we can start up some hysteria about that?
Even as probably the only person alive who liked ENT Augment Virus plot, I think that's stretching. Despite the insurmountable differences between TNG and DS9 Trill or ENT and TOS Gorn I'm content to just leave the differences be because they are canonically the same race. I'd have been happy to leave the TOS vs. TNG Klingons at that as well, but I happen to like how it was done. But there is no canonical evidence to say that the Caitians and the Humans-with-pointed-ears-and-tails are in any way related at all so there's no need to come up with convoluted plots for them.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I liked the Enterprise story arc as well but when you come right down to it, it was necessitated by a lack of money to begin with (and maybe imagination as well) that brought about all the rest.
My post was sarcastic to the core. People try to justify stuff in Star Trek, which is riddled with a lack of consistency, like Medieval Religious Scholars arguing about 'How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin'. They then get upset with others because they do not subscribe to their version of 'reality'.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Kirk's birth isn't really an issue. The stress his mother came under when the Kelvin was attacked could have sent her into Labor early. Had they not been attacked, she might have made it back to Earth and Kirk would have been born in Iowa.
And how do you explain Sela? She was born to an alternate Tasha Yar. So technically from Yesterday's Enterprise, we were in an alternate universe as Tasha Yar had died, yet is also the mother of Sela.
Star Trek is no stranger to branching realities. Think about that episode with Worf jumping between realities. There was one where the Enterprise barely survived the Borg, there was one with Riker as Captain of the Enterprise because Picard died, there was the one that Worf originally came from...
2.5 months premature? I could understand a couple of weeks early, but a baby being born even in the 23rd Century would not look right coming out that early
My grandson was born nine weeks early and he still looked like a baby.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I think we have a better understanding of how such ships would need to function today then we did fifty years ago so perhaps they are just correcting scale issues. What if the prime timeline ships are just too tiny? Furthermore earth ships over the last few decades have all been roughly the same size they just get more advanced technologically.
Who says starfleet couldn't have built much larger ships back then? The Kelvin was a long range explorer it makes sense it'd be bigger. It doesn't mean all the ships up until then were that huge or afterwards, the USA has tiny frigate class ships and massive Supercarriers each with their own purpose and design.
On the subject of uniform changes: in the US Navy, I have at least 4 different uniforms that I wear at one time. We change from dress blues to dress whites seasonally and if you consider full dress and service dress, that's 2 to 4 more right there(technically speaking). Oh and we have dinner dress too, which is optional, but exists. On top of that we are rolling out changes to those existing uniforms within the next couple years. Females have different uniforms for the moment too. Star Trek changing the uniforms each season isn't unbelievable, it's almost too realistic
Andorians have a sub-species that looks similar but is different, why can't Caitians?
Just look at all the different types of actual Cats we have in the world today, why can't an Alien-Cat Species have just as many differences?
(which includes a Hairless version)
Just comparing STO to TAS, shows that there are at lease Three different types already.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Also the Ceti Eel is a good one. Khan explained what they was and worked. It used babies to get into the ear and then into the brain. Where in the Kelvin Universe, they used an adult and stuff it down Pike's throat. Once again showing they just didn't go back in time only.
nero used centaurian slugs on pike, NOT ceti eels
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I don't like the Kelvin Timeline movies so I'm gonna nitpick the h377 out of them
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
IMO JJ-Trek to begin with is a parallel/alternate universe (like the mirror universe), anew individuals that had proven themself worthy and willing to join, like Nog in DS9.)[/i][/color]
Oh there really really is. The fact that they are not Caitians in any canon material means they are not canonically Caitians. It's really not that hard, really.
When it comes to Caitians, seriously, considering how many breeds of cats exist on earth, why is it so hard to accept that a race we barely ever see on screen could have a hairless variation?
Because they are Humans with pointed ears and tails. If you shaved M'Ress she wouldn't look like a Human with pointed ears and a tail, she still has a cats face and digigrade legs.
People are really over thinking this 'Caitian' thing.
"Why do they look so different?"
"Are they ever called Caitians in ID?"
"No."
"Problem solved."
"Why does the Kelvin look so different from other ships of the era?"
"Have we ever seen any ships from that era?"
"No."
"Problem solved"
Excuse me but they are in canon ever watch the god awful Star Trek 5 ? There is a Caitian go go girl in the bar.
No there isn't. It's just another alien. You can tell because she has three TRIBBLE not two.
As I'm on mobile I can't quote but the Andorian subspecies is grey/white skinned. That's the beginning and end of their differences.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Can you confirm that the creatures we see with Kirk during his off-hours on Earth are Caitians?
LINDELOF: You mean the women with the tails?
Yes, this is the species that Lt. M'Ress was, from The Animated Series.
LINDELOF: Yes, we can confirm this.
And don't ask for a link to something that confirms the two unnamed male Caitian admirals from "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home".. I am not gonna look for a link to something said in the 80s. So just give up asking for it.
Also the 3 breasted dancing cat alien in Star Trek V isn't a caitian. She is something entirely diffrent.
also, inb4 "IT WAS NEVER SAID ONSCREEN SO THEREFOR IT DOESN'T COUNT!"
Yeah it was never said onscreen, but we only got the out-of-screen confirmations made by people that made the movies, that those are caitians. So until it either gets proven or disproven on screen, they are caitians until then.
Heck did we ever get the green ladies confirmed as orions onscreen in the new movie?
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
The visual clues (other than the ridiculous TARDIS shuttlebay) on the hull of the Enterprise put her at 366 meters to have everything scaled properly. While larger than even a refit Prime Connie, that is still a reasonable size.
The Kelvin comes from a time not covered on screen, so uniforms and ship designs are naturally going to be up in the air. And arguing that uniforms = different universe is a sad attempt at best. How many times did the uniforms change in the TNG era? 4 times. In the span of how many years?
2350s-2365
2366
late 2360s-early 2370s
2373
We already have at least a 20 year timeline of uniform changes in TNG ALONE! That proves that uniforms can change quickly. We have no idea how long the Kelvin style uniforms had been in service. Your Cage style uniforms were said to be in service in the 2350s in the prime universe until about 2265. The Kelvin uniforms predate that by at least 20 years.
I'd like to point out that the late 2360s design is a variant of the 2366 uniform. Both are ins ervice simultaneously which is evident in the DS9 crossover episodes with TNG and the movie Generations as well as scenes in VOY. Nobody really knows why but it might have something to do with where the personnel is stationed or something like that, but point is it's not really a new/succesing uniform.
That doesn't change your point, though, Starfleet spends lots of resources for their tailors
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Kirk's birth isn't really an issue. The stress his mother came under when the Kelvin was attacked could have sent her into Labor early. Had they not been attacked, she might have made it back to Earth and Kirk would have been born in Iowa.
And how do you explain Sela? She was born to an alternate Tasha Yar. So technically from Yesterday's Enterprise, we were in an alternate universe as Tasha Yar had died, yet is also the mother of Sela.
Star Trek is no stranger to branching realities. Think about that episode with Worf jumping between realities. There was one where the Enterprise barely survived the Borg, there was one with Riker as Captain of the Enterprise because Picard died, there was the one that Worf originally came from...
2.5 months premature? I could understand a couple of weeks early, but a baby being born even in the 23rd Century would not look right coming out that early
My grandson was born nine weeks early and he still looked like a baby.
But I seriously doubt that he looked healthy. The baby used in Star Trek 2009 looked like he came out right on time at 9 months and not at 6.5 months.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
I'd like to point out that the late 2360s design is a variant of the 2366 uniform. Both are ins ervice simultaneously which is evident in the DS9 crossover episodes with TNG and the movie Generations as well as scenes in VOY. Nobody really knows why but it might have something to do with where the personnel is stationed or something like that, but point is it's not really a new/succesing uniform.
That doesn't change your point, though, Starfleet spends lots of resources for their tailors
The TNG s1 uniforms were also in service for a while after the transition to the more common TNG uniforms as well. Voyager had everyone wearing the DS9 style uniforms, indicating that that style was phased in across the fleet over time before they went with the First Contact style.
The only time we see a total transition rather than a phase in is with the First Contact style uniforms.
The TNG s1 uniforms were also in service for a while after the transition to the more common TNG uniforms as well. Voyager had everyone wearing the DS9 style uniforms, indicating that that style was phased in across the fleet over time before they went with the First Contact style.
The only time we see a total transition rather than a phase in is with the First Contact style uniforms.
VOY has, as far as I remember but I may be mistaken, scenes with Barclay in the alpha quadrant. Before the FC uniforms are introduced I think Barclay wears the TNG s3 style uniform. And right, the S1 uniforms are worn by crewmen at least until season 5. Voyager has this variant but I don't think they changed them throughout the fleet, the Enterprise uses them analogous for example.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
Right. Scenes in Voyager that were in the Alpha Quadrant used either the TNG or First Contact uniforms. Voyager used only the DS9 style uniforms her entire time in the Delta Quadrant even after establishing contact with Starfleet.
Comments
And how do you explain Sela? She was born to an alternate Tasha Yar. So technically from Yesterday's Enterprise, we were in an alternate universe as Tasha Yar had died, yet is also the mother of Sela.
Star Trek is no stranger to branching realities. Think about that episode with Worf jumping between realities. There was one where the Enterprise barely survived the Borg, there was one with Riker as Captain of the Enterprise because Picard died, there was the one that Worf originally came from...
And the later uniforms were two piece instead of one (usually), and had a looser fit in general.
There was also an 'in-between' uniform that was in the 3rd season, that people don't really talk about much.
Notice the two pleats on the front of the uniform.
There isn't any on screen reference to her size at all. Its only in the special features on the blu-ray I believe.
Even easier. They aren't Caitians.
For goodness sake, that's even less of an issue than the size of the ship. The only reference to them being Caitians is some guy in an interview with the answer 'sure, why not'.
Not all aliens with catlike features are Caitians, the catgirl from V had three TRIBBLE for goodness sake, but people have been calling her a Caitian for decades because they suffer from a crippling lack of imagination or scope.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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2.5 months premature? I could understand a couple of weeks early, but a baby being born even in the 23rd Century would not look right coming out that early.
If there is an infinite number of realities, then a bunch of them will be almost identical. Even applies to our universe. If the universe is infinite, then there is a chance for there to be another Earth that is almost identical to our own in some far off galaxy and time. So there might have been a person that looks like me and has the same personality, but lived in the Andromeda Galaxy 1 million years ago.
The problem is that branching realities have some relation to an original reality. So if I reach an intersection, then 2 new realities will be created with me going left in one, going right in another, going back in a third, and screaming like a mad man in a fourth. Therefore, the amount of realities created every second would be astronomical since it would have to create an alternate reality for every choice being made in all previous alternate realities at that particular moment.
Our entire lives would be just jumping from alternate reality to alternate reality. We would only live for a brief moment in an alternate reality to be replaced by an almost identical copy in another alternate reality. So righting this post, would mean that numerous starkaoses have existed and ceased to exist since each sentence I choose to write is an event. Such a theory is extremely egotistical since it implies that the universe actually gives significance to every single event in our lives. It is about as bad as astrology. Why does the universe care enough about my life that it simulates what my life would be like if I drank Coke instead of Pepsi today? Why does a bunch of stars care enough about me that they want to make today miserable? The answer is they don't care about us to waste the effort to create alternate realities for each insignificant event or affect our luck just because a star or planet is in a certain position.
Parallel Universes, on the other hand, make far more sense. An infinite amount of realities were created from the Big Bang and some of them just so happen to be similar to our own with no new alternate realities being created due to some insignificant event. So we can have a Riker afraid of going back to his own reality due to the Borg winning, a Cardassian crew member, and one where Worf marries Troi.
Forgot this one.....ugh.
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And that is all that it takes for them to be Caitians. Until someone in authority says that they are not Caitians, then they are Caitians. However since it is the co-writer and co-producer of Into Darkness that said "Yes, we can confirm this" instead of a lazy "sure, why not", then they are Kelvin Universe Caitians. Although, I would prefer getting the Kelvin Universe Caitians over the regular version no matter what they are called.
Um no. Caitians look like Caitians. That's why they're called Caitians. Humans with pointed ears and a tail are do not look like Caitians, so are not Caitians.
Were the called that in the film? No. Were the actors credited as that? No. So as far as canon material goes they are unnamed aliens no. 306.
No I'm sure somebody will bring up Trill, Klingons, or Gorn, the difference is that both drastically different designs of them were explicitly referred to in a canon source as being the same race.
There is absolutely nothing that has changed in the past of TAR only things in its present, ergo those humans with pointed ears and a tail can not be Caitians, a fact backed up by no canon reference to them being anything other than aliens. Also notice how no other race has changed Klingons, Romulans, Orions, Humans, Vulcans, all the same in the AR and PR.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Too many things are diffrent right off the bat before Nero blew up the Kelvin and began to alter things.
And there are things that wouldn't have been effected even with the people from the future running around.
The tech. (even if that can be explained by the movies being made today and not in the 60s)
Kirk being born on the wrong time and place. (Still, some say it was the shock that made Kirks mom give birth almost a half year before time, or she used pregnacy delaying meds in the main universe cause she wanted Kirk to be born on Earth and not in space.)
Caitians looking more human than cat-people. (yes, those twins are caitians. No getting around that)
Alien races not even part of the federation in main universe, are suddenly are in Starfleet in JJtrek. Fx. multiple Orions running around. (But could just be few individuals that had proven themself worthy and willing to join, like Nog in DS9.)
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Very correct, which is why I been saying its like a parallel universe set up. Just going back in time don't change the biology of a person or animals. Going back in time does change events, but not the biology make up.
Also the Ceti Eel is a good one. Khan explained what they was and worked. It used babies to get into the ear and then into the brain. Where in the Kelvin Universe, they used an adult and stuff it down Pike's throat. Once again showing they just didn't go back in time only.
Also which explains why the Kirk and crew also looks and acts different. From their original counterparts. There is a lot of clues.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
As I've said, considering how many people died as a result of Nero is entirely possible that the events of First Contact will never happen. If the Borg don't go back in time, numerous people who died in the prime universe (both in Montana and in the Regeneration incident) would instead be alive, which could potentially have drastic effects on the timeline from FC to the Kelvin incident. There are also numerous other temporal incidents that shaped the past of the prime universe, that likely will never happen in the JJ-verse as well. So while Nero arrived on the day Kirk was born, his actions helped shape the past of that timeline as well. So any technological inconsistencies can be explained by that.
When it comes to Caitians, seriously, considering how many breeds of cats exist on earth, why is it so hard to accept that a race we barely ever see on screen could have a hairless variation?
Oh there really really is. The fact that they are not Caitians in any canon material means they are not canonically Caitians. It's really not that hard, really.
Because they are Humans with pointed ears and tails. If you shaved M'Ress she wouldn't look like a Human with pointed ears and a tail, she still has a cats face and digigrade legs.
People are really over thinking this 'Caitian' thing.
"Why do they look so different?"
"Are they ever called Caitians in ID?"
"No."
"Problem solved."
"Why does the Kelvin look so different from other ships of the era?"
"Have we ever seen any ships from that era?"
"No."
"Problem solved"
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Are these GMO Caitians so maybe we can start up some hysteria about that?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Even as probably the only person alive who liked ENT Augment Virus plot, I think that's stretching. Despite the insurmountable differences between TNG and DS9 Trill or ENT and TOS Gorn I'm content to just leave the differences be because they are canonically the same race. I'd have been happy to leave the TOS vs. TNG Klingons at that as well, but I happen to like how it was done. But there is no canonical evidence to say that the Caitians and the Humans-with-pointed-ears-and-tails are in any way related at all so there's no need to come up with convoluted plots for them.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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My post was sarcastic to the core. People try to justify stuff in Star Trek, which is riddled with a lack of consistency, like Medieval Religious Scholars arguing about 'How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin'. They then get upset with others because they do not subscribe to their version of 'reality'.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My grandson was born nine weeks early and he still looked like a baby.
Who says starfleet couldn't have built much larger ships back then? The Kelvin was a long range explorer it makes sense it'd be bigger. It doesn't mean all the ships up until then were that huge or afterwards, the USA has tiny frigate class ships and massive Supercarriers each with their own purpose and design.
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Just look at all the different types of actual Cats we have in the world today, why can't an Alien-Cat Species have just as many differences?
(which includes a Hairless version)
Just comparing STO to TAS, shows that there are at lease Three different types already.
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nero used centaurian slugs on pike, NOT ceti eels
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A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Excuse me but they are in canon ever watch the god awful Star Trek 5 ? There is a Caitian go go girl in the bar.
As I'm on mobile I can't quote but the Andorian subspecies is grey/white skinned. That's the beginning and end of their differences.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Also the 3 breasted dancing cat alien in Star Trek V isn't a caitian. She is something entirely diffrent.
also, inb4 "IT WAS NEVER SAID ONSCREEN SO THEREFOR IT DOESN'T COUNT!"
Yeah it was never said onscreen, but we only got the out-of-screen confirmations made by people that made the movies, that those are caitians. So until it either gets proven or disproven on screen, they are caitians until then.
Heck did we ever get the green ladies confirmed as orions onscreen in the new movie?
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
I'd like to point out that the late 2360s design is a variant of the 2366 uniform. Both are ins ervice simultaneously which is evident in the DS9 crossover episodes with TNG and the movie Generations as well as scenes in VOY. Nobody really knows why but it might have something to do with where the personnel is stationed or something like that, but point is it's not really a new/succesing uniform.
That doesn't change your point, though, Starfleet spends lots of resources for their tailors
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But I seriously doubt that he looked healthy. The baby used in Star Trek 2009 looked like he came out right on time at 9 months and not at 6.5 months.
The TNG s1 uniforms were also in service for a while after the transition to the more common TNG uniforms as well. Voyager had everyone wearing the DS9 style uniforms, indicating that that style was phased in across the fleet over time before they went with the First Contact style.
The only time we see a total transition rather than a phase in is with the First Contact style uniforms.
VOY has, as far as I remember but I may be mistaken, scenes with Barclay in the alpha quadrant. Before the FC uniforms are introduced I think Barclay wears the TNG s3 style uniform. And right, the S1 uniforms are worn by crewmen at least until season 5. Voyager has this variant but I don't think they changed them throughout the fleet, the Enterprise uses them analogous for example.
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