Honestly remember that the kelvin incident happened 20+ years before the episode "The Cage" (which itself was 12 years prior to the years TOS took place in). Bottom line: that was the first time we saw Federation ships and uniforms from the era of Star Trek, prime timeline or not.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The same could be said for Steve Jobs and Apple. No matter what the papers may says Apple was his and every time he left or was forced out they nearly collapsed because of it. They depended on him for survival.
Kirk's birth isn't really an issue. The stress his mother came under when the Kelvin was attacked could have sent her into Labor early. Had they not been attacked, she might have made it back to Earth and Kirk would have been born in Iowa.
And how do you explain Sela? She was born to an alternate Tasha Yar. So technically from Yesterday's Enterprise, we were in an alternate universe as Tasha Yar had died, yet is also the mother of Sela.
Star Trek is no stranger to branching realities. Think about that episode with Worf jumping between realities. There was one where the Enterprise barely survived the Borg, there was one with Riker as Captain of the Enterprise because Picard died, there was the one that Worf originally came from...
2.5 months premature? I could understand a couple of weeks early, but a baby being born even in the 23rd Century would not look right coming out that early
My grandson was born nine weeks early and he still looked like a baby.
But I seriously doubt that he looked healthy. The baby used in Star Trek 2009 looked like he came out right on time at 9 months and not at 6.5 months.
Actually, for a nine week early he was pretty heavy at about four pounds. I admit he had some breathing problems, but that was about it. Today he's a healthy growing boy who only occasionally has breathing problems.
And I will admit that baby Kirk was too large to be much of a preemie. My point was that you implied they didn't look like babies and they do. *Shrug* They do that in film and tv all the time, so I didn't really think about it. I don't even recall hearing in the movie that it was two months early, so this was a surprise.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
That's also assuming that Stardate 2233.04 is January 4, 2233. If we assume that the decimal = number of day in the Earth Year (which might not make sense to anyone but humans/Federation members) Then we have 2 possible outcomes for 2233.04. It could be 2233.004 meaning January 4th, or it could be 2233.040, which would put it I believe in February.
Now... we consider that if it is .040, then that means that they may shorthand it to .04 like how decimals are shorthanded from 1.010 to 1.01 for example.
So are we saying that 'Star Trek V' influenced 'Total Recall'? With the three...
You see 'Star Trek V' was more influential than first thought.
So the Navy can't wear dress whites after Labor Day?
Post edited by ltminns on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Kirk's birth isn't really an issue. The stress his mother came under when the Kelvin was attacked could have sent her into Labor early. Had they not been attacked, she might have made it back to Earth and Kirk would have been born in Iowa.
And how do you explain Sela? She was born to an alternate Tasha Yar. So technically from Yesterday's Enterprise, we were in an alternate universe as Tasha Yar had died, yet is also the mother of Sela.
Star Trek is no stranger to branching realities. Think about that episode with Worf jumping between realities. There was one where the Enterprise barely survived the Borg, there was one with Riker as Captain of the Enterprise because Picard died, there was the one that Worf originally came from...
2.5 months premature? I could understand a couple of weeks early, but a baby being born even in the 23rd Century would not look right coming out that early
My grandson was born nine weeks early and he still looked like a baby.
But I seriously doubt that he looked healthy. The baby used in Star Trek 2009 looked like he came out right on time at 9 months and not at 6.5 months.
Actually, for a nine week early he was pretty heavy at about four pounds. I admit he had some breathing problems, but that was about it. Today he's a healthy growing boy who only occasionally has breathing problems.
And I will admit that baby Kirk was too large to be much of a preemie. My point was that you implied they didn't look like babies and they do. *Shrug* They do that in film and tv all the time, so I didn't really think about it. I don't even recall hearing in the movie that it was two months early, so this was a surprise.
All I said that 2.5 month premature babies would not look right coming out that early not that they don't look like babies. Premature babies usually have some skin discoloration and smaller bodies compared to regular babies.
That's true. However, the film industry has never factually represented newborns in birth scenes. As was stated, most of the babies used for newborns are several months old and quite healthy-looking. I've pretty much given up on seeing a factual representation of a full-term newborn birth, much less a preemie birth. It's one of those things that I overlook when watching films or tv.
I generally overlook a lot when watching anything and just watch for entertainment value. If it entertained me, fine. If it didn't I won't watch it again.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
That's true. However, the film industry has never factually represented newborns in birth scenes. As was stated, most of the babies used for newborns are several months old and quite healthy-looking. I've pretty much given up on seeing a factual representation of a full-term newborn birth, much less a preemie birth. It's one of those things that I overlook when watching films or tv.
I generally overlook a lot when watching anything and just watch for entertainment value. If it entertained me, fine. If it didn't I won't watch it again.
But a regular newborn usually looks more like a baby 2 months old than a baby that was 2.5 months premature. So while there are some minor differences, it is not too noticeable.
For me, it makes total sense that the Nerada, and Spock, not only traveled back in time but to a parallel universe that was already on a slightly different path, which easiliy explains away the different design cues of the Kelvin and other ships not being as consistant as the gap between Enterprise, and The Cage.
Everything after the instant when the Kelvin encountered Nero's black hole Borg-looking Narada mining vessel was a completely different reality than the one we've come to experience in Trek.
IMO, the KT timeline has zero connection to the prime timeline. There are too many differences that would never have been changed due to 1 ship coming back in time. It's a similar but separate universe.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
For me, it makes total sense that the Nerada, and Spock, not only traveled back in time but to a parallel universe that was already on a slightly different path, which easiliy explains away the different design cues of the Kelvin and other ships not being as consistant as the gap between Enterprise, and The Cage.
But how do we know that they traveled back in time? They could have just went to another dimension that looked similar to the 23rd Century. Assuming a rate of 1 second per second for the original universe and Kelvin universe, Star Trek 2009 took place in the year 2412 STO time. So if we are interacting with 0718 after Into Darkness happened, then 0718 is travelling back in time to STO's present even though it seems like they are travelling to an alternate version of their future.
But how do we know that they traveled back in time? They could have just went to another dimension that looked similar to the 23rd Century. Assuming a rate of 1 second per second for the original universe and Kelvin universe, Star Trek 2009 took place in the year 2412 STO time. So if we are interacting with 0718 after Into Darkness happened, then 0718 is traveling back in time to STO's present even though it seems like they are traveling to an alternate version of their future.
Hey! You stole my idea from an older thread!
Yup, once you accept that it's a totally separate universe, there's no necessity to travel through time also. The KT timeline could even be the 'future'; who knows how long it took that Earth to get space travel...
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
The NuTrek Enterprise is almost certainly not 'slightly' longer than the TOS Connie. Aside from the bridge viewscreen/window shot, basically everything that one can get a reasonable approximation of scale has shown it to be far, far larger. The Engineering section, the shuttlebay, when we see it under construction on earth. It's a large ship by Trek standards, extremely large considering the time period.
The Kelvin is likewise quite large for the time period, but doesn't have the excuse of time travel interference to justify the differences. Hence the arguments that the JJVerse is best defined as either a completely parallel dimension (like the mirror universe), as a completely different setting, or as the result of the timeline being affected by time travel prior to the Kelvin incident.
It's the other way around sorry. Other than the shuttlebay everything else points to the shorter length the model was built to.
Except the officially stated size: ~725 meters.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Well seeing how CBS and Paramount both state it branched off the prime timeline makes all other points and or assumptions moot.
The problem with their stupid insistence on having it branch off of the prime timeline is that everything before the USS Kelvin was destroyed has to be exactly the same.
There is the problem of every instance of Star Trek except for Enterprise where someone went back in time and change the past. So Kelvin Universe Kirk has to go back in time to the 60s and 80s for the Air Force Base, Gary Seven, and capture some whales, Kelvin Universe Picard has to go back in time to stop the Borg from assimilating 21st Century Earth, and Kelvin Universe Janeway has to go back in time to the 90s. Without those changes to the past, then they won't come from the prime timeline.
Having to keep everything the same will just immensely restrict their creativity and have fans point out any discrepancy they make. It is easier just to say that it happens in another universe that looks similar to the 23rd Century and not care about what happens in the Prime Universe before 2233.
Can you confirm that the creatures we see with Kirk during his off-hours on Earth are Caitians?
LINDELOF: You mean the women with the tails?
Yes, this is the species that Lt. M'Ress was, from The Animated Series.
LINDELOF: Yes, we can confirm this.
And don't ask for a link to something that confirms the two unnamed male Caitian admirals from "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home".. I am not gonna look for a link to something said in the 80s. So just give up asking for it.
Also the 3 breasted dancing cat alien in Star Trek V isn't a caitian. She is something entirely diffrent.
also, inb4 "IT WAS NEVER SAID ONSCREEN SO THEREFOR IT DOESN'T COUNT!"
Yeah it was never said onscreen, but we only got the out-of-screen confirmations made by people that made the movies, that those are caitians. So until it either gets proven or disproven on screen, they are caitians until then.
Heck did we ever get the green ladies confirmed as orions onscreen in the new movie?
It's not onscreen so it doesn't count. I'm sorry CBS' official canon policy upsets you, it obviously means a lot to you that the Humans-with-pointed-ears-and-a-tail are Caitians.
Did we get them confirmed? No. I guess not. Are they identical to Orions from any other series? Yes. It's reasonable to assume they're Orions. Could they be another race of green skinned Humans? Yes. Do I care? Not really, they're identical to previous Orions, why wouldn't they be Orions. Incidentally that's how the two Cat Admirals are identified as Caitians by the way, the fact that they look like M'Ress. I don't even think costume notes exist for them.
The NuTrek Enterprise is almost certainly not 'slightly' longer than the TOS Connie. Aside from the bridge viewscreen/window shot, basically everything that one can get a reasonable approximation of scale has shown it to be far, far larger. The Engineering section, the shuttlebay, when we see it under construction on earth. It's a large ship by Trek standards, extremely large considering the time period.
The Kelvin is likewise quite large for the time period, but doesn't have the excuse of time travel interference to justify the differences. Hence the arguments that the JJVerse is best defined as either a completely parallel dimension (like the mirror universe), as a completely different setting, or as the result of the timeline being affected by time travel prior to the Kelvin incident.
It's the other way around sorry. Other than the shuttlebay everything else points to the shorter length the model was built to.
Except the officially stated size: ~725 meters.
Official yes, canon no. The offical size contradicts the canon size. Hell, the canon size contradicts the canon size, but an accurate assessment can still be made.
Has anybody read the 'official' DS9 technical manual? You want a bet as to how many 'official' sizes in there are correct?
But how do we know that they traveled back in time? They could have just went to another dimension that looked similar to the 23rd Century. Assuming a rate of 1 second per second for the original universe and Kelvin universe, Star Trek 2009 took place in the year 2412 STO time. So if we are interacting with 0718 after Into Darkness happened, then 0718 is traveling back in time to STO's present even though it seems like they are traveling to an alternate version of their future.
Hey! You stole my idea from an older thread!
Yup, once you accept that it's a totally separate universe, there's no necessity to travel through time also. The KT timeline could even be the 'future'; who knows how long it took that Earth to get space travel...
And you both stole mine .
I've always (well since 2009) held that eNT and TAR are in the same quantum reality separated from the main one. Some people (like @angrytarg) believe it stated with FC, whereas I think it was the Temporal Cold War, started as a result of the destruction of Romulus.
But just to point out, Caitians and Humans-with-pointed-ears-and-a-tail are not the same species in either theory.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@artan42 It could have very well started with The Voyage Home. I somehow like to think that every time someone in Star Trek "time travels" they always open a portal to the same alternate reality where they TRIBBLE things up and then return to the original one. That however doesn't really hold true because the bit in DS9 does change the current timeline in "real time", but that could also be due to Sisko's Jesus powers.
In any case, yes for me it's definitely FC (if not earlier) that has the audeince be "trapped" in the AR for ENT while the Enterprise returned to the PU. The Temporal Cold War could also be a reason of course, but I hate that plot so much I get heartburn thinking about it for too long
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
No there isn't. It's just another alien. You can tell because she has three **** not two.
As I'm on mobile I can't quote but the Andorian subspecies is grey/white skinned. That's the beginning and end of their differences.
They were also Blind and somewhat Psychic.
So your statement is completely wrong.
Also, how many cats have there been that have SIX toes on each paw?
Why can't an ALIEN have variations in number of "other things"?
Post edited by daveyny on
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
No there isn't. It's just another alien. You can tell because she has three **** not two.
As I'm on mobile I can't quote but the Andorian subspecies is grey/white skinned. That's the beginning and end of their differences.
They were also Blind and somewhat Psychic.
So your statement is completely wrong.
Also, how many cats have there been that have SIX toes on each paw?
Why can't an ALIEN have variations in number of "other things"?
I think it should also be noted that Shran's daughter had green skin, since he mated with Jhamel, who was an Aenar. The difference in appearance for KT-Caitians can be explained as easily as humans having differences in appearance - we have white people, black people, Asian people..it really depends on your heritage and where your ancestors came from. The furless Caitians can quite easily come from a desert or swampy region of Cait, just like the denser-furred Caitians we see in ST IV could possibly be from a colder climate.
Honestly, even M'Ress is likely from another region than the Admirals in ST IV. It's surely not that much of a stretch of the imagination, is it? Just because they are aliens, it doesn't mean that they can't have different denominations/subspecies.
We also have to remember that the sets and models built for the PT were less-than appropriately sized considering the supposed-size of the model. Yes, I'm aware that it's canon..but fiscal constraints in the '60s were quite a bit different from those same limitations of today.
A +300-metre ship has a shuttlebay with enough room for *only* one shuttle to exit or enter at any one time? Also..do we have a given size for the Kelvin?
We also have to remember that the sets and models built for the PT were less-than appropriately sized considering the supposed-size of the model. Yes, I'm aware that it's canon..but fiscal constraints in the '60s were quite a bit different from those same limitations of today.
A +300-metre ship has a shuttlebay with enough room for *only* one shuttle to exit or enter at any one time? Also..do we have a given size for the Kelvin?
Going by the 'Official Starships Collection' by Eaglemoss the Kelvin is 315 meters long. Which I find hard to believe considering the shuttles and the crew of 800+.
It's not onscreen so it doesn't count. I'm sorry CBS' official canon policy upsets you, it obviously means a lot to you that the Humans-with-pointed-ears-and-a-tail are Caitians.
First off: Not upset here or anything, and never gave you any reason to think that. And it doens't mean anything to me if they are caitian or not. Just stating the fact they been called caitians by people behind the show.
Second off: Canon? Yeah nothing in canon ever said they are caitians since they never were called it on the shows. But I never spoke of canon. Just saying we got out-of-show refs by people making the shows.. saying they are caitian. So that means so far.. thats all I will refer to them as until any infomation contradicts that.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
We also have to remember that the sets and models built for the PT were less-than appropriately sized considering the supposed-size of the model. Yes, I'm aware that it's canon..but fiscal constraints in the '60s were quite a bit different from those same limitations of today.
A +300-metre ship has a shuttlebay with enough room for *only* one shuttle to exit or enter at any one time? Also..do we have a given size for the Kelvin?
Going by the 'Official Starships Collection' by Eaglemoss the Kelvin is 315 meters long. Which I find hard to believe considering the shuttles and the crew of 800+.
Well, the USS Enterprise (CVN-65) is 342m long and had an operational compliment of 4800, including the air wing. The USS Gerald R. Ford is 337m and has a compliment of 4660. It's not in the realm of disbelief to imagine that a slightly smaller (fictional) ship has approximately 6-times fewer crew members, 200 years in the future.
Anyway, back on topic. The Kelvins size and specs was off imo. Which I agree on that this is an alternate reality. Not an alternate timeline.
Plus all the other things that are diffrent and shouldn't have been affected by Nero going back and altering things.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
If I recall correctly, if one pauses the film just before the first wave of torpedoes from the Narada strikes the Kelvin, all three of her bridge windows are clearly visible, and they are quite large compared to the rest of the saucer, thus supporting the 315m
figure.
The two red circles are the Kelvin's bridge windows.
And the rim of the saucer with part of the registry number is clearly visible through the windows in this shot.
By that same token, in the same film, there is a pull-away panning shot of the Enterprise that starts at the ship's bridge and pans across the hull, and said shot clearly shows the size of the bridge window compared to the rest of the saucer. So unless the people visible on the bridge in that shot are fifteen feet tall, the bridge of the KT Enterprise seems to support the 366m figure.
Furthermore, based on this shot, I have a hard time believing I'm looking at 700+ meters of starship:
We also have to remember that the sets and models built for the PT were less-than appropriately sized considering the supposed-size of the model. Yes, I'm aware that it's canon..but fiscal constraints in the '60s were quite a bit different from those same limitations of today.
A +300-metre ship has a shuttlebay with enough room for *only* one shuttle to exit or enter at any one time? Also..do we have a given size for the Kelvin?
Going by the 'Official Starships Collection' by Eaglemoss the Kelvin is 315 meters long. Which I find hard to believe considering the shuttles and the crew of 800+.
Well, the USS Enterprise (CVN-65) is 342m long and had an operational compliment of 4800, including the air wing. The USS Gerald R. Ford is 337m and has a compliment of 4660. It's not in the realm of disbelief to imagine that a slightly smaller (fictional) ship has approximately 6-times fewer crew members, 200 years in the future.
Well, yeah. It's just that navy carriers don't have to deal with enclosed environments, support systems and so on that is required to keep those people alive in space. Plus the sheer number of shuttles the Kelvin had when the original Enterprise carried something like three.
Furthermore, based on this shot, I have a hard time believing I'm looking at 700+ meters of starship:
Well, yeah. The design was based on around 366 meters. It's just that it was inflated later on. So, what we get is a mess of 366 meter size shots and 725 meter shots. Going by Into Darkness, though, the Kelvin-verse Enterprise has to be 725 meters because the Vengeance is officially 1459 meters. So, with it being twice as long as the Enterprise that would have to make it around 725 meters.
The NuTrek Enterprise is almost certainly not 'slightly' longer than the TOS Connie. Aside from the bridge viewscreen/window shot, basically everything that one can get a reasonable approximation of scale has shown it to be far, far larger. The Engineering section, the shuttlebay, when we see it under construction on earth. It's a large ship by Trek standards, extremely large considering the time period.
The Kelvin is likewise quite large for the time period, but doesn't have the excuse of time travel interference to justify the differences. Hence the arguments that the JJVerse is best defined as either a completely parallel dimension (like the mirror universe), as a completely different setting, or as the result of the timeline being affected by time travel prior to the Kelvin incident.
Now, now... There's no arguing with a fan with a protractor. Clinging to shooting errors over plainly stated creator AND owner intent is the Star Trek fan way. And why nobody wants to work on a property mired in 50 years of random accumulated detritus.
Why do you hold creator intent over creator product? Do you buy shoddy cars or other products in real life because they were meant to be better?
I've learned to ignore his posts, its clear someone who insists on referring to the Prime timeline as the "Closed for businessverse" is a troll looking for reactions.
Comments
The people behind JJ Trek might C your post as nothing but a line of BS.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Actually, for a nine week early he was pretty heavy at about four pounds. I admit he had some breathing problems, but that was about it. Today he's a healthy growing boy who only occasionally has breathing problems.
And I will admit that baby Kirk was too large to be much of a preemie. My point was that you implied they didn't look like babies and they do. *Shrug* They do that in film and tv all the time, so I didn't really think about it. I don't even recall hearing in the movie that it was two months early, so this was a surprise.
Now... we consider that if it is .040, then that means that they may shorthand it to .04 like how decimals are shorthanded from 1.010 to 1.01 for example.
You see 'Star Trek V' was more influential than first thought.
So the Navy can't wear dress whites after Labor Day?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
All I said that 2.5 month premature babies would not look right coming out that early not that they don't look like babies. Premature babies usually have some skin discoloration and smaller bodies compared to regular babies.
I generally overlook a lot when watching anything and just watch for entertainment value. If it entertained me, fine. If it didn't I won't watch it again.
But a regular newborn usually looks more like a baby 2 months old than a baby that was 2.5 months premature. So while there are some minor differences, it is not too noticeable.
IMO, the KT timeline has zero connection to the prime timeline. There are too many differences that would never have been changed due to 1 ship coming back in time. It's a similar but separate universe.
But how do we know that they traveled back in time? They could have just went to another dimension that looked similar to the 23rd Century. Assuming a rate of 1 second per second for the original universe and Kelvin universe, Star Trek 2009 took place in the year 2412 STO time. So if we are interacting with 0718 after Into Darkness happened, then 0718 is travelling back in time to STO's present even though it seems like they are travelling to an alternate version of their future.
Hey! You stole my idea from an older thread!
Yup, once you accept that it's a totally separate universe, there's no necessity to travel through time also. The KT timeline could even be the 'future'; who knows how long it took that Earth to get space travel...
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
Except the officially stated size: ~725 meters.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
wth? lol
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
The problem with their stupid insistence on having it branch off of the prime timeline is that everything before the USS Kelvin was destroyed has to be exactly the same.
There is the problem of every instance of Star Trek except for Enterprise where someone went back in time and change the past. So Kelvin Universe Kirk has to go back in time to the 60s and 80s for the Air Force Base, Gary Seven, and capture some whales, Kelvin Universe Picard has to go back in time to stop the Borg from assimilating 21st Century Earth, and Kelvin Universe Janeway has to go back in time to the 90s. Without those changes to the past, then they won't come from the prime timeline.
Having to keep everything the same will just immensely restrict their creativity and have fans point out any discrepancy they make. It is easier just to say that it happens in another universe that looks similar to the 23rd Century and not care about what happens in the Prime Universe before 2233.
It's not onscreen so it doesn't count. I'm sorry CBS' official canon policy upsets you, it obviously means a lot to you that the Humans-with-pointed-ears-and-a-tail are Caitians.
Did we get them confirmed? No. I guess not. Are they identical to Orions from any other series? Yes. It's reasonable to assume they're Orions. Could they be another race of green skinned Humans? Yes. Do I care? Not really, they're identical to previous Orions, why wouldn't they be Orions. Incidentally that's how the two Cat Admirals are identified as Caitians by the way, the fact that they look like M'Ress. I don't even think costume notes exist for them.
Official yes, canon no. The offical size contradicts the canon size. Hell, the canon size contradicts the canon size, but an accurate assessment can still be made.
Has anybody read the 'official' DS9 technical manual? You want a bet as to how many 'official' sizes in there are correct?
And you both stole mine
I've always (well since 2009) held that eNT and TAR are in the same quantum reality separated from the main one. Some people (like @angrytarg) believe it stated with FC, whereas I think it was the Temporal Cold War, started as a result of the destruction of Romulus.
But just to point out, Caitians and Humans-with-pointed-ears-and-a-tail are not the same species in either theory.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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In any case, yes for me it's definitely FC (if not earlier) that has the audeince be "trapped" in the AR for ENT while the Enterprise returned to the PU. The Temporal Cold War could also be a reason of course, but I hate that plot so much I get heartburn thinking about it for too long
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They were also Blind and somewhat Psychic.
So your statement is completely wrong.
Also, how many cats have there been that have SIX toes on each paw?
Why can't an ALIEN have variations in number of "other things"?
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I think it should also be noted that Shran's daughter had green skin, since he mated with Jhamel, who was an Aenar. The difference in appearance for KT-Caitians can be explained as easily as humans having differences in appearance - we have white people, black people, Asian people..it really depends on your heritage and where your ancestors came from. The furless Caitians can quite easily come from a desert or swampy region of Cait, just like the denser-furred Caitians we see in ST IV could possibly be from a colder climate.
Honestly, even M'Ress is likely from another region than the Admirals in ST IV. It's surely not that much of a stretch of the imagination, is it? Just because they are aliens, it doesn't mean that they can't have different denominations/subspecies.
A +300-metre ship has a shuttlebay with enough room for *only* one shuttle to exit or enter at any one time? Also..do we have a given size for the Kelvin?
Going by the 'Official Starships Collection' by Eaglemoss the Kelvin is 315 meters long. Which I find hard to believe considering the shuttles and the crew of 800+.
First off: Not upset here or anything, and never gave you any reason to think that. And it doens't mean anything to me if they are caitian or not. Just stating the fact they been called caitians by people behind the show.
Second off: Canon? Yeah nothing in canon ever said they are caitians since they never were called it on the shows. But I never spoke of canon. Just saying we got out-of-show refs by people making the shows.. saying they are caitian. So that means so far.. thats all I will refer to them as until any infomation contradicts that.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Well, the USS Enterprise (CVN-65) is 342m long and had an operational compliment of 4800, including the air wing. The USS Gerald R. Ford is 337m and has a compliment of 4660. It's not in the realm of disbelief to imagine that a slightly smaller (fictional) ship has approximately 6-times fewer crew members, 200 years in the future.
Plus all the other things that are diffrent and shouldn't have been affected by Nero going back and altering things.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
figure.
The two red circles are the Kelvin's bridge windows.
And the rim of the saucer with part of the registry number is clearly visible through the windows in this shot.
By that same token, in the same film, there is a pull-away panning shot of the Enterprise that starts at the ship's bridge and pans across the hull, and said shot clearly shows the size of the bridge window compared to the rest of the saucer. So unless the people visible on the bridge in that shot are fifteen feet tall, the bridge of the KT Enterprise seems to support the 366m figure.
Furthermore, based on this shot, I have a hard time believing I'm looking at 700+ meters of starship:
Well, yeah. It's just that navy carriers don't have to deal with enclosed environments, support systems and so on that is required to keep those people alive in space. Plus the sheer number of shuttles the Kelvin had when the original Enterprise carried something like three.
Well, yeah. The design was based on around 366 meters. It's just that it was inflated later on. So, what we get is a mess of 366 meter size shots and 725 meter shots. Going by Into Darkness, though, the Kelvin-verse Enterprise has to be 725 meters because the Vengeance is officially 1459 meters. So, with it being twice as long as the Enterprise that would have to make it around 725 meters.
As such, they can feel free to produce more of the schlock trek. I don't care.
He very nearly got a reaction I can tell you :P