Oh ok, so they have financial documents that proves he was making profit from Star Trek. It confuses me why CBS didn't open with that instead?
Honestly, that looks to me like they want to avoid setting a legal precedent for where the line is in regards to intellectual property law and fan fiction. Remember that US court decisions are considered to have the force of law; if I were CBS I'd want to leave my options open afterward.
But yes, based on the timing of the lawsuit (it was filed literally within a week after those financial statements were sent out to the Kickstarter backers; CBS had completely ignored him before that), it does appear that the accounting information he disclosed was what pissed them off.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I know that. Let me clarify. I was asking why they didn't sue them for deliberately using crowdfund project to make profit, instead of the added "nonsense" part. I think your following post explains that.
"from what I know CBS slapped them with a lawsuit and Axanar countered by saying it wasn't specific enough. So... CBS got VERY specific."
So they sued them for making profit from their crowdfunds and Axanar said they weren't being more specific.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I know that. Let me clarify. I was asking why they didn't sue them for deliberately using crowdfund project to make profit, instead of the added "nonsense" part. I think your following post explains that.
"from what I know CBS slapped them with a lawsuit and Axanar countered by saying it wasn't specific enough. So... CBS got VERY specific."
So they sued them for making profit from their crowdfunds and Axanar said they weren't being more specific.
By "specific", Rattler meant that Peters basically challenged CBS to enumerate each and every individual use of copyrighted material he'd made.
The resulting document was on the order of thirty pages long. XD
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
"Honestly, that looks to me like they want to avoid setting a legal precedent for where the line is in regards to intellectual property law and fan fiction. Remember that US court decisions are considered to have the force of law; if I were CBS I'd want to leave my options open afterward.
But yes, based on the timing of the lawsuit (it was filed literally within a week after those financial statements were sent out to the Kickstarter backers; CBS had completely ignored him before that), it does appear that the accounting information he disclosed was what pissed them off. " - starswordc
Thanks for explaining it to me. Makes much more sense now.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"Honestly, that looks to me like they want to avoid setting a legal precedent for where the line is in regards to intellectual property law and fan fiction. Remember that US court decisions are considered to have the force of law; if I were CBS I'd want to leave my options open afterward.
But yes, based on the timing of the lawsuit (it was filed literally within a week after those financial statements were sent out to the Kickstarter backers; CBS had completely ignored him before that), it does appear that the accounting information he disclosed was what pissed them off. " - starswordc
Thanks for explaining it to me. Makes much more sense now.
Court logic and real-world logic frequently don't match up. That's where we get the loony idea that corporations are people from: It was supposed to allow the government to prosecute entire companies for things like environmental disasters but ended up somehow creating black-box political campaign committees when some lawyer tied two completely unrelated laws together.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Also before 'people' start accusing anyone of not reading. I did happen to read the linked article in the first post before commenting, but I was hoping someone could update me quickly without reading a total of 32 pages of posts.
You could have read the last one or two.
I think it is wrong for CBS to wait until the last minute to decide to sue a company on the basis of fan film looking too professional.
The timing of the lawsuit actually coincided with Peters releasing a poorly worded document detailing how he spent the money he got from supporters.
Oh ok, so they have financial documents that proves he was making profit from Star Trek. It confuses me why CBS didn't open with that instead?
The documents don't prove Peters did something wrong on their own. First CBS must establish context to demonstrate why the financial documents are relevant.
I did hear about people accusing him of using crowd fund money to pay himself and crew wages. I don't know how true that is. Someone even said he was telling others that he was going to use the studio and equipment to make profitable projects. But why wouldn't he be allowed to use future equipment for other projects?
The wages aren't really the issue; sure, it's bad in combination with other stuff, but a case could be made that they merely needed to survive the project.
However, in the December statement Peters did make it clear that some of the crowdfunds, raised using the name of Star Trek, would be going toward funding his own for-profit company, Ares Studios. That, in combination with his mildly aggressive marketing campaign on his website (Axanar-brand coffee, for the Great Bird's sake!), constituted misuse of an IP for personal profit in violation of trademark and copyright laws.
Admittedly, some of the specifics (the Klingon language, for instance) might sound a little silly - but Peters demanded specifics, and CBS provided them in spades. Besides, certain other factors, such as the use of the character of Ambassador Soval (from ENT), are more clear as violations.
I looked at their website and they are selling Axanar labelled merchandise. You could say they are walking a thin line. But it says the purchases are donations. I have bought Star Wars and Marvel T-shirts from other artists, and I can probably say that they didn't have a license to sell them and they certainly weren't going towards as donations or funding for Star Wars fan films. I don't see Disney and Lucasfilm suing for copyright infringements on them or the other fan films that were funded. Does it just become a problem when they generate exceedingly large amount of money off of their franchise, and they are suing based on that alone? Seems that way. If they win, then they should reinforce that on everything whether it be crowdfunded or not. I expect them to send cease and desist letters like all the other companies that become excessively over protective. If they don't want people to recreate themes from Star Trek, then it should apply to everyone without exceptions.
If they manage to prove he was exploiting the crowdfunds for his own private golden yacht and jet i.e. personal gains. Then yes he deserves it. But people shouldn't jump the gun, there hasn't been full blown investigation. So I would keep finger pointing to minimum until it's resolved.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I looked at their website and they are selling Axanar labelled merchandise. You could say they are walking a thin line. But it says the purchases are donations. I have bought Star Wars and Marvel T-shirts from other artists, and I can probably say that they didn't have a license to sell them and they certainly weren't going towards as donations or funding for Star Wars fan films. I don't see Disney and Lucasfilm suing for copyright infringements on them or the other fan films that were funded. Does it just become a problem when they generate exceedingly large amount of money off of their franchise, and they are suing based on that alone? Seems that way. If they win, then they should reinforce that on everything whether it be crowdfunded or not. I expect them to send cease and desist letters like all the other companies that become excessively over protective. If they don't want people to recreate themes from Star Trek, then it should apply to everyone without exceptions.
If they manage to prove he was exploiting the crowdfunds for his own private golden yacht and jet i.e. personal gains. Then yes he deserves it. But people shouldn't jump the gun, there hasn't been full blown investigation. So I would keep finger pointing to minimum until it's resolved.
He raised approximately 1.3 mil in crowdfunds for "Axanar". To give you an idea, the average fan film is 10,000 to 60,000. That is WAY in excess of what is needed to make a fan-film and borders on Hollywood level funding.
He has had this money for approximately a year. And has nothing to show for it, but a private studio and a 38k salary. All paid for by crowdfunding supposedly for Axanar.
He is creating and selling merchandise not only based on Axanar, but other copyrighted works. None of which he has the licensing for.
Whenever any donor questions his business practices or where THEIR money has gone to on Axanar's official site, they are censured. To the point that His site shows NO criticism of him, His business practices, Axanar, or where donar money goes.
If you read though this thread you will see Alec Peters has more then crossed the line on what a fan film should or should not do. He deserves CBS/Paramount coming after him. If you want CBS/Paramount to shut down all fan made material, that is fine, but rather sad.
I looked at their website and they are selling Axanar labelled merchandise. You could say they are walking a thin line. But it says the purchases are donations. I have bought Star Wars and Marvel T-shirts from other artists, and I can probably say that they didn't have a license to sell them and they certainly weren't going towards as donations or funding for Star Wars fan films. I don't see Disney and Lucasfilm suing for copyright infringements on them or the other fan films that were funded. Does it just become a problem when they generate exceedingly large amount of money off of their franchise, and they are suing based on that alone? Seems that way. If they win, then they should reinforce that on everything whether it be crowdfunded or not. I expect them to send cease and desist letters like all the other companies that become excessively over protective. If they don't want people to recreate themes from Star Trek, then it should apply to everyone without exceptions.
If they manage to prove he was exploiting the crowdfunds for his own private golden yacht and jet i.e. personal gains. Then yes he deserves it. But people shouldn't jump the gun, there hasn't been full blown investigation. So I would keep finger pointing to minimum until it's resolved.
I'm still of the opinion that CBS/Paramount are suing because of the proximity Axanar would have to the new TV series and the next movie, and are simply using the infringement/profit angle as a legal justification, because the first, would get them laughed out of court.
That said, Alec Peters is guilty of obtaining funds by deception, of essentially starting business off the funders' dime, and trying to leverage himself into the self-appointed status of 'Star Trek Producer'. A couple of pages back, there was a link to a nearly two-hour long podcast... It's worth watching, simply to see how unprofessionally Mr Peters conducts himself, and when the interviewer tries to ask him questions he doesn't want to answer, he starts phoning his PR guy while online, to bleat to him that he's being asked questions which he feels the PR guy should address (instead of him) Alec Peters is clearly a tool* of the highest order... He deserves to get hit by whatever book they decide to throw at him, and if fans at a convention were to 'react aggressively' to his presence, I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for him
*a bit of an unfair descriptor, as tools are normally useful
If any artist is selling Marvel-based merchandise and doesn't have a license from Disney, trust me, it's a matter of time until the legal bulldozer arrives. (Had you not heard of the daycare in Florida, sued in 2003 for having unlicensed Disney characters painted on the wall?) Simply because someone has managed to evade detection for a time doesn't make their conduct legal, any more than you can justify robbing a bank because someone else managed to escape police pursuit after they did it.
Same applies to DC-based merchandise - when Warner Brothers learns about it, their legal team shuts it down. It's fear of those legal teams, in fact, that leads Cryptic to "genericize" any copycat heroes in Champions Online the moment they learn about them. (With the tiny team CO has, they mostly have to wait until someone files a ticket regarding the character - but after their previous debacle with Marvel and City of Heroes, derailed only because the characters being used as examples were created by Marvel employees, they're pretty strict about enforcing trademark when they find the violations.)
And if you create a "fan film", then start selling Star Trek-branded merch (call it a "donation" all you want, but if you won't send it to me for free, you're selling it), you can expect the cease-and-desist sooner rather than later. Even worse if you haven't actually made your "fan film" yet, but are gathering funds to back the studio you want to make a profit off of later by using the Star Trek IP. (Somewhere back in the beginning of the discussion, someone made mention of having a financial expert of their acquaintance look at the December statement; said expert reportedly said it was more of a confession than a statement.)
I looked at their website and they are selling Axanar labelled merchandise. You could say they are walking a thin line. But it says the purchases are donations. I have bought Star Wars and Marvel T-shirts from other artists, and I can probably say that they didn't have a license to sell them and they certainly weren't going towards as donations or funding for Star Wars fan films. I don't see Disney and Lucasfilm suing for copyright infringements on them or the other fan films that were funded. Does it just become a problem when they generate exceedingly large amount of money off of their franchise, and they are suing based on that alone? Seems that way. If they win, then they should reinforce that on everything whether it be crowdfunded or not. I expect them to send cease and desist letters like all the other companies that become excessively over protective. If they don't want people to recreate themes from Star Trek, then it should apply to everyone without exceptions.
If they manage to prove he was exploiting the crowdfunds for his own private golden yacht and jet i.e. personal gains. Then yes he deserves it. But people shouldn't jump the gun, there hasn't been full blown investigation. So I would keep finger pointing to minimum until it's resolved.
I'm still of the opinion that CBS/Paramount are suing because of the proximity Axanar would have to the new TV series and the next movie, and are simply using the infringement/profit angle as a legal justification, because the first, would get them laughed out of court.
That said, Alec Peters is guilty of obtaining funds by deception, of essentially starting business off the funders' dime, and trying to leverage himself into the self-appointed status of 'Star Trek Producer'. A couple of pages back, there was a link to a nearly two-hour long podcast... It's worth watching, simply to see how unprofessionally Mr Peters conducts himself, and when the interviewer tries to ask him questions he doesn't want to answer, he starts phoning his PR guy while online, to bleat to him that he's being asked questions which he feels the PR guy should address (instead of him) Alec Peters is clearly a tool* of the highest order... He deserves to get hit by whatever book they decide to throw at him, and if fans at a convention were to 'react aggressively' to his presence, I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for him
*a bit of an unfair descriptor, as tools are normally useful
Honestly, At this point I am not sure Alec Peters ever had any real intention of making Axanar. I think he would probably make a few more "snippets" a la the vulcan scene, to convince donors that he was working on it. But in reality, he is just using the Star Trek IP to get rich and start his own production studio.
He has had a year to make Axanar, not even counting all the funding (which again is staggering in the amount) and he claims there isn't even a script yet. What exactly is taking so long? And if you are that behind schedule, What are you PAYING yourself for? What work have you done to actually justify that salary?
(seem to be having issues with quoting, so sorry if it's messy and broken) *The quote had to be converted from BBCode to Text. Some formatting may have been lost.*
If your on an android phone, I had to go to the full site to get quotes to work, the mobile version seems to be broken in that regard. Mobile also does not show any signatures.
Lifetime Subscriber since Beta ^ Click image to listen to my favorite Trek theme song! ^
I looked at their website and they are selling Axanar labelled merchandise. You could say they are walking a thin line. But it says the purchases are donations. I have bought Star Wars and Marvel T-shirts from other artists, and I can probably say that they didn't have a license to sell them and they certainly weren't going towards as donations or funding for Star Wars fan films. I don't see Disney and Lucasfilm suing for copyright infringements on them or the other fan films that were funded. Does it just become a problem when they generate exceedingly large amount of money off of their franchise, and they are suing based on that alone? Seems that way. If they win, then they should reinforce that on everything whether it be crowdfunded or not. I expect them to send cease and desist letters like all the other companies that become excessively over protective. If they don't want people to recreate themes from Star Trek, then it should apply to everyone without exceptions.
If they manage to prove he was exploiting the crowdfunds for his own private golden yacht and jet i.e. personal gains. Then yes he deserves it. But people shouldn't jump the gun, there hasn't been full blown investigation. So I would keep finger pointing to minimum until it's resolved.
I'm still of the opinion that CBS/Paramount are suing because of the proximity Axanar would have to the new TV series and the next movie, and are simply using the infringement/profit angle as a legal justification, because the first, would get them laughed out of court.
That said, Alec Peters is guilty of obtaining funds by deception, of essentially starting business off the funders' dime, and trying to leverage himself into the self-appointed status of 'Star Trek Producer'. A couple of pages back, there was a link to a nearly two-hour long podcast... It's worth watching, simply to see how unprofessionally Mr Peters conducts himself, and when the interviewer tries to ask him questions he doesn't want to answer, he starts phoning his PR guy while online, to bleat to him that he's being asked questions which he feels the PR guy should address (instead of him) Alec Peters is clearly a tool* of the highest order... He deserves to get hit by whatever book they decide to throw at him, and if fans at a convention were to 'react aggressively' to his presence, I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for him
*a bit of an unfair descriptor, as tools are normally useful
Honestly, At this point I am not sure Alec Peters ever had any real intention of making Axanar. I think he would probably make a few more "snippets" a la the vulcan scene, to convince donors that he was working on it. But in reality, he is just using the Star Trek IP to get rich and start his own production studio.
He has had a year to make Axanar, not even counting all the funding (which again is staggering in the amount) and he claims there isn't even a script yet. What exactly is taking so long? And if you are that behind schedule, What are you PAYING yourself for? What work have you done to actually justify that salary?
That's a very interesting suggestion... I'm not sure if it's an avenue of discussion which has been raised thus far, but I think it certainly has merit... I stopped following a sci-fi film production on fb (never gave them a dime, but was interested(ish) in the production) as I was getting the feeling that the producer was simply travelling around and Living the Life off the donor's dime. There have been updates suggesting that films are being made etc, and that subsequent films are under pre-production, but that never sat comfortably with me... IMHO, why start pre-production on sequels when the primary film hasn't been released? That didn't quite ring true, so they lost my interest (as well as considerably souring my opinion towards crowdfunding)
(I did appropriate one of their character names though (he appears in Acadamy Daze) so that'll teach them* )
* I know it won't really, but WTF, it was a name I liked and decided to re-purpose into a very different character than what they claimed to intend to use
** Virtual cookies and kudos to anyone who can name the character I'm refering to
If any artist is selling Marvel-based merchandise and doesn't have a license from Disney, trust me, it's a matter of time until the legal bulldozer arrives. (Had you not heard of the daycare in Florida, sued in 2003 for having unlicensed Disney characters painted on the wall?)
"A daycare is for the kids!" It's still a business. That is not counted under fair use any more than a restaurant. Disney doesn't actually go after things that are fair use. And fair use means not making money off of it. Which a daycare most certainly does.
If any artist is selling Marvel-based merchandise and doesn't have a license from Disney, trust me, it's a matter of time until the legal bulldozer arrives. (Had you not heard of the daycare in Florida, sued in 2003 for having unlicensed Disney characters painted on the wall?)
"A daycare is for the kids!" It's still a business. That is not counted under fair use any more than a restaurant. Disney doesn't actually go after things that are fair use. And fair use means not making money off of it. Which a daycare most certainly does.
I think that was the point. Disney is extremely aggressive with there brand. You do NOT mess with The Mouse. That guy will take you down.
Even something as fairly innocent as painting disney characters to decorate a wall.
"He raised approximately 1.3 mil in crowdfunds for "Axanar". To give you an idea, the average fan film is 10,000 to 60,000. That is WAY in excess of what is needed to make a fan-film and borders on Hollywood level funding.
He has had this money for approximately a year. And has nothing to show for it, but a private studio and a 38k salary. All paid for by crowdfunding supposedly for Axanar.
He is creating and selling merchandise not only based on Axanar, but other copyrighted works. None of which he has the licensing for.
Whenever any donor questions his business practices or where THEIR money has gone to on Axanar's official site, they are censured. To the point that His site shows NO criticism of him, His business practices, Axanar, or where donar money goes.
If you read though this thread you will see Alec Peters has more then crossed the line on what a fan film should or should not do. He deserves CBS/Paramount coming after him. If you want CBS/Paramount to shut down all fan made material, that is fine, but rather sad." - voyagerfan9751
So? There is no law to on how much your allowed to have on crowdfunding. That is not how it works. There are plenty of projects that have exceeded far higher than 1.3 mil. That's peanuts. Hollywood films are around 150-200mil or more.
Movies don't instantly come out of microwaves. And fan films even less so. $1.3mil is not as big as you think it is. There is an awful lot of work and hassle in order to make a 1 hour film if you want it to be down properly. Well that's news to me, never seen him selling other products from other brands.
That doesn't sound surprising. Do you think I would be welcomed with open arms if I wrote on the forums that STO Agents of Yesterday was shameless cash grab? Doesn't matter if I am right or not. You will get shot down the moment someone views it as personal attack. You can say it to their face in public or another site in which they have no control over, but when they have the power to silence you it's pointless. Same thing for everything. I wouldn't blame them, I don't think they need people shouting on their site when they are in the middle of being sued.
hey, I am not Judge, Jury and Executioner. And neither should pretend to be. Everyone's welcomed to their own opinion on the matter. I still think if CBS/Paramount wins they will destroy the very idea of fan fiction, art, literature. Because that's what they are trying to achieve here.
[insert jonsills quotes]
I think you going overboard to compare Disney characters painted on a wall to robbing a bank at gun point. I have been at plenty of conventions and seen plenty of artists work on many works and brands without direct permission. I have yet to see Disney or Paramount come marching down and demanding that they are infringing upon their rights and take them to court. I doubt it's a matter of time, merely if they see it as direct threat to their purchased franchise.
They could sue this sites fan fiction if they wanted too, doesn't necessarily mean they will. And that's the problem. It looks like they are just cherry picking the ones that they don't like, which leads the whole confusion whether fanfilms, art, and literature should be automatically issued cease and desist threats. CBS and Paramount are not just suing because a guy may or may not be making a profit, they are challenging the works of non-CBS Paramount works as well.
About the COH being sued by Marvel. That kind of ridiculous issue happens all the time. You can no more sue someone for cosplaying, how is that any different? In DCUO they are selling Batman Cowl for $30 for crying out loud. Not exactly discouraging people to run around as recognisable/similar characters. It's absurd. But I'd have a good laugh if Warner Brothers came to my house telling me they were going to sue me for crating virtual character to represent a character that they happen to legally own.
Hell I was even thinking of making Captain Sulu in STO. Guess I'll have to wait to see if Paramount/Cryptic want's to punish me for that.
And why doesn't CBS/Paramount sue that adult flick "This Ain’t Star Trek" it's using everything CBS/Paramount are complaining about (TOS characters, theme, outfits) and it's selling it for direct profit.
But I do understand your points. Them using the Crowdfund to finance other projects directly is wrong (if that is indeed the case). The whole situation sounds shady for both sides.
"I'm still of the opinion that CBS/Paramount are suing because of the proximity Axanar would have to the new TV series and the next movie, and are simply using the infringement/profit angle as a legal justification, because the first, would get them laughed out of court." - marcusdkane
Now that sounds pretty spot on. CBS and Paramount are pretty close to selling their TV series (sigh) and releasing their own movie. They don't want direct view ship competition or to lose a portion of their fan base (wallets).
"That said, Alec Peters is guilty of obtaining funds by deception, of essentially starting business off the funders' dime, and trying to leverage himself into the self-appointed status of 'Star Trek Producer'. A couple of pages back, there was a link to a nearly two-hour long podcast... It's worth watching, simply to see how unprofessionally Mr Peters conducts himself, and when the interviewer tries to ask him questions he doesn't want to answer, he starts phoning his PR guy while online, to bleat to him that he's being asked questions which he feels the PR guy should address (instead of him) Alec Peters is clearly a tool* of the highest order... He deserves to get hit by whatever book they decide to throw at him, and if fans at a convention were to 'react aggressively' to his presence, I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for him ;)"
Well I wouldn't hit him with a book, lol. Guess I'll have to watch that if I can find it. I don't know if him starting off a business is just a by-product. I can't believe he would directly steal money from a crowdfund to support his own business. I'll wait to see how it turns out. Still going to be a blow to all crowdfunded fan films if they win. That and I want to watch that film *free* sounds good to me.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Fun fact, @terranempire, since you mentioned Warner Brothers. They once sent a C&D to a team making a Middle-Earth total conversion for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion on grounds of it breaching copyright on The Lord of the Rings Online. As if a free-to-play MMO and a mod for a single-player RPG that, let's face it, even the vast majority of Oblivion players will never download (the majority of Oblivion's sales came from the console versions, not PC), could ever possibly meaningfully compete with one another.
Contrast CBS and Paramount, who once told YouTube to drop a third-party copyright claim against the fan film series Star Trek Continues and put it back on the web. They also for a long time financially supported fan fiction through their licensee Pocket Books with the Strange New Worlds competition, where fanfics written to particular criteria* would be professionally published in a yearly anthology for which the winning authors were paid.
So clearly, given the C/P track record of favorable regard for fan works, there's something different about the whole Axanar situation.
As for This Ain't Star Trek, parody, even laughably bad TRIBBLE parody, is fair use. That's also why Family Guy, Saturday Night Live, and The Carol Burnett Show could do Star Trek sketches: they're spoofs and therefore legally protected.
* Mainly "safe for work", no hurt/comfort fics, and you have to use canon characters as your protagonists.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Ok, my head officially hurts now, lol. Made an awful lot of mistakes and I can't seem to edit it. So if you find couple of sentences with missing words that's because I forgot to add them. :/
I don't think CBS/Paramount is suing because of money or people complaining about them using funds to create a business once the fan film is over. It's because they see them as a threat on their intellectual property. Especially when they can't afford to have any competition when the new film is coming out this summer and a planned TV series that they are wanting to charge people to view online. Pretty much what marcusdkane said and I agree with him.There well within their rights to sue them for that alone. That's the issue here.
The same happened when community tried to make mod recreation of Tolkien world of LOTR in Skyrim. Warner Bros threatened to sue that fan made project. Not because they were attempting to make profit or gain career publicity. But because it was a threat on their intellectual property. The fan made community was giving something similar for free of the same standard, when Warner Bros are trying to sell people theirs. Competition is bad for their business and it doesn't matter if it's free, it's perceived as an attack.
Really hope CBS/Paramount doesn't win the case, but they probably will solely based on this. This pretty much means that you can be sue for anything, except your own ideas. Which thankfully they can't sue on, even if it's similar to theirs.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Not wanting to appear smug starswordc. But you might want to look up that fun fact. It was Elder Scrolls: Skyrim V, not Oblivion IV.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
So? There is no law to on how much your allowed to have on crowdfunding. That is not how it works. There are plenty of projects that have exceeded far higher than 1.3 mil. That's peanuts. Hollywood films are around 150-200mil or more.
Well I wouldn't hit him with a book, lol. Guess I'll have to watch that if I can find it. I don't know if him starting off a business is just a by-product. I can't believe he would directly steal money from a crowdfund to support his own business. I'll wait to see how it turns out. Still going to be a blow to all crowdfunded fan films if they win. That and I want to watch that film *free* sounds good to me.
It's not a matter of the amount he has made via the crowdfunding, but a matter of him i) Selling other Axanar merch (aka profit) without CBS/Paramount sanction and ii) He's had the money that long, and 'all' he's done, is build a studio which, by his own admission, will be used in the future for other non-Axanar projects: He's used crowdfunding money to start his own production company. There wouldn't be anything wrong with that if that had been his original 'mission statement', but it wasn't... He dangled Prelude before the fandom, raked in the $$s for people to see the Main Event, but then did nothing to actually bring the main event to fruition.
As for the second boldened point, I don't mean to be harsh, but if you had actually read this thread fully, you would be well aware of the past discussions of this very point, and you would understand that there is absolutely no question, that Mr Peters has used the funds to create Ares Studios, a production facility which is not exclusive to Axanar, and is intended to be used as a leasable movie production facility to future projects, so shelve the benefit of the doubt you are extending him, and bring yourself upto date with the particulars of the case, rather than embarassing yourself through cognitive dissonance and extending good-will...
Look at his attempt to evade the lawsuit by trying to say that the suit wasn't specific in his IP violations... He never denied violation, he just turned round and said "Tell me what I've copied..." and then attempted to ludicrously break down to the concepts (ie pointy eared beings not being unique to Star Trek) beyond recognition to try and claim 'fair use'... Again, the near-two hour podcast shows just what an evasive and prevaricative piece of s**t he is... Sorry for the wake-up call, but Alec Peters is slime, plain and simple. He's pulled a really nice scam, and deserves whatever the courts hit him with... I actually now agree with the above-raised notion, of if he ever even intended to produce Axanar, but simply used that to bait the hook so he could get the $$s to build his own production company...
Not wanting to appear smug starswordc. But you might want to look up that fun fact. It was Elder Scrolls: Skyrim V, not Oblivion IV.
Whatever, you get my point, though.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Ok, my head officially hurts now, lol. Made an awful lot of mistakes and I can't seem to edit it. So if you find couple of sentences with missing words that's because I forgot to add them.
I don't think CBS/Paramount is suing because of money or people complaining about them using funds to create a business once the fan film is over. It's because they see them as a threat on their intellectual property. Especially when they can't afford to have any competition when the new film is coming out this summer and a planned TV series that they are wanting to charge people to view online. Pretty much what marcusdkane said and I agree with him.There well within their rights to sue them for that alone. That's the issue here.
The same happened when community tried to make mod recreation of Tolkien world of LOTR in Skyrim. Warner Bros threatened to sue that fan made project. Not because they were attempting to make profit or gain career publicity. But because it was a threat on their intellectual property. The fan made community was giving something similar for free of the same standard, when Warner Bros are trying to sell people theirs. Competition is bad for their business and it doesn't matter if it's free, it's perceived as an attack.
Really hope CBS/Paramount doesn't win the case, but they probably will solely based on this. This pretty much means that you can be sue for anything, except your own ideas. Which thankfully they can't sue on, even if it's similar to theirs.
Absolutely, I believe absolutely that that is why CBS/Paramount are suing, and they are simply using copyright infringement as the legal framework to do so. But. They absolutely deserve to win, for the simple reason that Alec Peters absolutely deserves to lose... He has obtained funds by deception. He has played on people's goodwill and love of the franchise, and he has used those funds to further his own production company... Frankly, I think he deserves jail-time for fraud, and what will likely be an inability to refund those who thought they were funding a Star Trek fanfilm...
So? There is no law to on how much your allowed to have on crowdfunding. That is not how it works. There are plenty of projects that have exceeded far higher than 1.3 mil. That's peanuts. Hollywood films are around 150-200mil or more.
Big budget hollywood movies are 150-200 mil. Smaller independent films are much small. Though most are probably closer to 10-15 mil. Veronica Mars, on the other had, made a TV movie to follow after the series, for 5 mil.
Regardless, Using the Star Trek name, to make a film, set in the Star Trek universe for 1.3 mil and thinking you can avoid the ire of the IP holder is foolish.
That doesn't sound surprising. Do you think I would be welcomed with open arms if I wrote on the forums that STO Agents of Yesterday was shameless cash grab? Doesn't matter if I am right or not. You will get shot down the moment someone views it as personal attack. You can say it to their face in public or another site in which they have no control over, but when they have the power to silence you it's pointless. Same thing for everything. I wouldn't blame them, I don't think they need people shouting on their site when they are in the middle of being sued.
You clearly haven't been on these Forums long. Plenty of people have expressed displeasure with Cryptic/PWE over various decisions they have made. Some of them have even gone to criticize the professional integrity of Cryptic and its employees. And They remain on the forums. Read a forum thread on a new lockbox release, you will see just how much some people on the forum "love" those boxes.
Again, this thread has had multiple examples of Peters backpeddling in an effort to get out of the legal mess he is in. He says he is making a for profit studio. Then he says he is looking for non-profit status. He claims the script for Axanar is done. Then he claims CBS is suing prematurely, because there isn't even a script yet. He has likewise made claims that Vulcans are not copyrights of Star Trek as Vulcan is a Roman God. Despite using the character of Soval (and the actor who played him) in his vulcan scene, I believe.
Well I don't know what to say about that. There's an awful amount of accounts being made to make aggressive comments at Axanar. I just want to watch the movie. If he happens to win and complete the project I'd be more than happy just because I get to see it. After that he can use the studio and equipment for whatever it is. Really is none of my business so long as he delivers on what he promised in the first place. But with all the hate and upcoming copyright claims it seems less likely.
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Well I don't know what to say about that. There's an awful amount of accounts being made to make aggressive comments at Axanar. I just want to watch the movie. If he happens to win and complete the project I'd be more than happy just because I get to see it. After that he can use the studio and equipment for whatever it is. Really is none of my business so long as he delivers on what he promised in the first place. But with all the hate and upcoming copyright claims it seems less likely.
I can understand that point of view. And I think that is what makes it all the more aggravating what Peters did. From what i heard, a lot of people thought Axanar was going to be a great film. Not major motion picture great, but still well worth a watch.
But given the level of time he had to make the film and all the rest of it, I am more convinced then ever that somewhere along the process (and BEFORE either CBS/Paramount got involved) Peters stopped thinking about making the movie and just worked on how he could get more money from people who wanted to see his "awesome" movie (I have awesome in quotes only because there is literally NOTHING to judge really as far as what the movie would have been)
Again, I use the Veronica Mars movie, because despite being done by a major production company it WAS crowdfunded. After they raise the funds, a year later, They HAD the movie. It was a done deal and all the fans (and donors) got the movie they were promised.
By extension, Peters has had roughly the same amount of time (again figuring before the lawsuit as I am sure a temporary C&D was part of the initial litigation) and has NOTHING to show for it. No script, No sets, nothing. I think if you donated to the axanar crowdfund you have a right to ask where exactly your money went, when you are not seeing a movie you were promised.
Well I don't know what to say about that. There's an awful amount of accounts being made to make aggressive comments at Axanar. I just want to watch the movie. If he happens to win and complete the project I'd be more than happy just because I get to see it. After that he can use the studio and equipment for whatever it is. Really is none of my business so long as he delivers on what he promised in the first place. But with all the hate and upcoming copyright claims it seems less likely.
Had you read the thread in its entirity, you'd not be surprised and would know exactly what to say about it I'm sure a lot of people want to see the movie, but the reality is that it is likely to never happen, and as mentioned above, was possibly never going to happen anyway... As for your naive comment about his use of the studio, No, it doesn't work that way... If someone asks for $$s for a specific project, then that is what they use the $$s for. Not for any other purpose. If he wanted to go on Kickstarter and say "Hi, My name's Alec and I want to be a film producer... Please give me $$s so I can build a film studio, and I'll produce some awesome work, and be able to help others with their film-making dreams... One of the projects I want to make, is inspired by the Battle of Axanar, and will show Star Trek as you've never seen it before..." Then that would be a different matter, as people would know they were funding a film studio, which would then produce other projects. But that's NOT what he did... It's the reverse of what he did... He's a pan-handler, plain and simple... Like I said, CBS/Paramount have their own motives, but that doesn't relieve Mr Peters of being a slime and ripping people off... As Tony Todd tweeted #NoAccountability...
If any artist is selling Marvel-based merchandise and doesn't have a license from Disney, trust me, it's a matter of time until the legal bulldozer arrives. (Had you not heard of the daycare in Florida, sued in 2003 for having unlicensed Disney characters painted on the wall?)
"A daycare is for the kids!" It's still a business. That is not counted under fair use any more than a restaurant. Disney doesn't actually go after things that are fair use. And fair use means not making money off of it. Which a daycare most certainly does.
I think that was the point. Disney is extremely aggressive with there brand. You do NOT mess with The Mouse. That guy will take you down.
Even something as fairly innocent as painting disney characters to decorate a wall.
Yes, and no, if it's the people who run the daycare doing it to attract business... that's not good ethics. You don't NEED to use Disney characters for that. Heck, you can paint pictures of Snow White, Cinderella etc! Just not the Disney version. Yes, there are a lot of old drawings to use as source material.
"You clearly haven't been on these Forums long. Plenty of people have expressed displeasure with Cryptic/PWE over various decisions they have made. Some of them have even gone to criticize the professional integrity of Cryptic and its employees. And They remain on the forums. Read a forum thread on a new lockbox release, you will see just how much some people on the forum "love" those boxes."
Oh jeez. What gave it away? Clearly not my post count or that I said "newcomer". I mentioned it because people's expression, ideas, or opinions are not protected by human rights on the internet. It's there to protect you against your government, not mean admins on forum sites. I have seen people criticise on forums as well. And awful lot of them don't remain on the forums for long... Cryptic/PWE aren't any different. They can remove you without a reason, because they own the site. Anyone that thinks otherwise is very naïve. If anyone manages to remain it's because they were careful to follow the rules closely, walked a very fine line, or happened to have many accounts. But this is entirely off-topic. I don't want to argue if PWE is fair to it's forum members. But that making any kind of criticism on a forum site (including Axanar) isn't going to grantee that you will not be censored or forcible removed as punishment.
"Again, this thread has had multiple examples of Peters backpeddling in an effort to get out of the legal mess he is in. He says he is making a for profit studio. Then he says he is looking for non-profit status. He claims the script for Axanar is done. Then he claims CBS is suing prematurely, because there isn't even a script yet. He has likewise made claims that Vulcans are not copyrights of Star Trek as Vulcan is a Roman God. Despite using the character of Soval (and the actor who played him) in his vulcan scene, I believe." - voyagerfan9751
Well I can't comment on that at all. I'll wait and see in 2017 if he is what you say "back peddling".
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
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Honestly, that looks to me like they want to avoid setting a legal precedent for where the line is in regards to intellectual property law and fan fiction. Remember that US court decisions are considered to have the force of law; if I were CBS I'd want to leave my options open afterward.
But yes, based on the timing of the lawsuit (it was filed literally within a week after those financial statements were sent out to the Kickstarter backers; CBS had completely ignored him before that), it does appear that the accounting information he disclosed was what pissed them off.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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"from what I know CBS slapped them with a lawsuit and Axanar countered by saying it wasn't specific enough. So... CBS got VERY specific."
So they sued them for making profit from their crowdfunds and Axanar said they weren't being more specific.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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By "specific", Rattler meant that Peters basically challenged CBS to enumerate each and every individual use of copyrighted material he'd made.
The resulting document was on the order of thirty pages long. XD
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
But yes, based on the timing of the lawsuit (it was filed literally within a week after those financial statements were sent out to the Kickstarter backers; CBS had completely ignored him before that), it does appear that the accounting information he disclosed was what pissed them off. " - starswordc
Thanks for explaining it to me. Makes much more sense now.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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Court logic and real-world logic frequently don't match up. That's where we get the loony idea that corporations are people from: It was supposed to allow the government to prosecute entire companies for things like environmental disasters but ended up somehow creating black-box political campaign committees when some lawyer tied two completely unrelated laws together.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
However, in the December statement Peters did make it clear that some of the crowdfunds, raised using the name of Star Trek, would be going toward funding his own for-profit company, Ares Studios. That, in combination with his mildly aggressive marketing campaign on his website (Axanar-brand coffee, for the Great Bird's sake!), constituted misuse of an IP for personal profit in violation of trademark and copyright laws.
Admittedly, some of the specifics (the Klingon language, for instance) might sound a little silly - but Peters demanded specifics, and CBS provided them in spades. Besides, certain other factors, such as the use of the character of Ambassador Soval (from ENT), are more clear as violations.
If they manage to prove he was exploiting the crowdfunds for his own private golden yacht and jet i.e. personal gains. Then yes he deserves it. But people shouldn't jump the gun, there hasn't been full blown investigation. So I would keep finger pointing to minimum until it's resolved.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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He raised approximately 1.3 mil in crowdfunds for "Axanar". To give you an idea, the average fan film is 10,000 to 60,000. That is WAY in excess of what is needed to make a fan-film and borders on Hollywood level funding.
He has had this money for approximately a year. And has nothing to show for it, but a private studio and a 38k salary. All paid for by crowdfunding supposedly for Axanar.
He is creating and selling merchandise not only based on Axanar, but other copyrighted works. None of which he has the licensing for.
Whenever any donor questions his business practices or where THEIR money has gone to on Axanar's official site, they are censured. To the point that His site shows NO criticism of him, His business practices, Axanar, or where donar money goes.
If you read though this thread you will see Alec Peters has more then crossed the line on what a fan film should or should not do. He deserves CBS/Paramount coming after him. If you want CBS/Paramount to shut down all fan made material, that is fine, but rather sad.
I'm still of the opinion that CBS/Paramount are suing because of the proximity Axanar would have to the new TV series and the next movie, and are simply using the infringement/profit angle as a legal justification, because the first, would get them laughed out of court.
That said, Alec Peters is guilty of obtaining funds by deception, of essentially starting business off the funders' dime, and trying to leverage himself into the self-appointed status of 'Star Trek Producer'. A couple of pages back, there was a link to a nearly two-hour long podcast... It's worth watching, simply to see how unprofessionally Mr Peters conducts himself, and when the interviewer tries to ask him questions he doesn't want to answer, he starts phoning his PR guy while online, to bleat to him that he's being asked questions which he feels the PR guy should address (instead of him) Alec Peters is clearly a tool* of the highest order... He deserves to get hit by whatever book they decide to throw at him, and if fans at a convention were to 'react aggressively' to his presence, I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for him
*a bit of an unfair descriptor, as tools are normally useful
Same applies to DC-based merchandise - when Warner Brothers learns about it, their legal team shuts it down. It's fear of those legal teams, in fact, that leads Cryptic to "genericize" any copycat heroes in Champions Online the moment they learn about them. (With the tiny team CO has, they mostly have to wait until someone files a ticket regarding the character - but after their previous debacle with Marvel and City of Heroes, derailed only because the characters being used as examples were created by Marvel employees, they're pretty strict about enforcing trademark when they find the violations.)
And if you create a "fan film", then start selling Star Trek-branded merch (call it a "donation" all you want, but if you won't send it to me for free, you're selling it), you can expect the cease-and-desist sooner rather than later. Even worse if you haven't actually made your "fan film" yet, but are gathering funds to back the studio you want to make a profit off of later by using the Star Trek IP. (Somewhere back in the beginning of the discussion, someone made mention of having a financial expert of their acquaintance look at the December statement; said expert reportedly said it was more of a confession than a statement.)
Honestly, At this point I am not sure Alec Peters ever had any real intention of making Axanar. I think he would probably make a few more "snippets" a la the vulcan scene, to convince donors that he was working on it. But in reality, he is just using the Star Trek IP to get rich and start his own production studio.
He has had a year to make Axanar, not even counting all the funding (which again is staggering in the amount) and he claims there isn't even a script yet. What exactly is taking so long? And if you are that behind schedule, What are you PAYING yourself for? What work have you done to actually justify that salary?
If your on an android phone, I had to go to the full site to get quotes to work, the mobile version seems to be broken in that regard. Mobile also does not show any signatures.
^ Click image to listen to my favorite Trek theme song! ^
That's a very interesting suggestion... I'm not sure if it's an avenue of discussion which has been raised thus far, but I think it certainly has merit... I stopped following a sci-fi film production on fb (never gave them a dime, but was interested(ish) in the production) as I was getting the feeling that the producer was simply travelling around and Living the Life off the donor's dime. There have been updates suggesting that films are being made etc, and that subsequent films are under pre-production, but that never sat comfortably with me... IMHO, why start pre-production on sequels when the primary film hasn't been released? That didn't quite ring true, so they lost my interest (as well as considerably souring my opinion towards crowdfunding)
(I did appropriate one of their character names though (he appears in Acadamy Daze) so that'll teach them*
* I know it won't really, but WTF, it was a name I liked and decided to re-purpose into a very different character than what they claimed to intend to use
** Virtual cookies and kudos to anyone who can name the character I'm refering to
My character Tsin'xing
I think that was the point. Disney is extremely aggressive with there brand. You do NOT mess with The Mouse. That guy will take you down.
Even something as fairly innocent as painting disney characters to decorate a wall.
He has had this money for approximately a year. And has nothing to show for it, but a private studio and a 38k salary. All paid for by crowdfunding supposedly for Axanar.
He is creating and selling merchandise not only based on Axanar, but other copyrighted works. None of which he has the licensing for.
Whenever any donor questions his business practices or where THEIR money has gone to on Axanar's official site, they are censured. To the point that His site shows NO criticism of him, His business practices, Axanar, or where donar money goes.
If you read though this thread you will see Alec Peters has more then crossed the line on what a fan film should or should not do. He deserves CBS/Paramount coming after him. If you want CBS/Paramount to shut down all fan made material, that is fine, but rather sad." - voyagerfan9751
So? There is no law to on how much your allowed to have on crowdfunding. That is not how it works. There are plenty of projects that have exceeded far higher than 1.3 mil. That's peanuts. Hollywood films are around 150-200mil or more.
Movies don't instantly come out of microwaves. And fan films even less so. $1.3mil is not as big as you think it is. There is an awful lot of work and hassle in order to make a 1 hour film if you want it to be down properly.
Well that's news to me, never seen him selling other products from other brands.
That doesn't sound surprising. Do you think I would be welcomed with open arms if I wrote on the forums that STO Agents of Yesterday was shameless cash grab? Doesn't matter if I am right or not. You will get shot down the moment someone views it as personal attack. You can say it to their face in public or another site in which they have no control over, but when they have the power to silence you it's pointless. Same thing for everything. I wouldn't blame them, I don't think they need people shouting on their site when they are in the middle of being sued.
hey, I am not Judge, Jury and Executioner. And neither should pretend to be. Everyone's welcomed to their own opinion on the matter. I still think if CBS/Paramount wins they will destroy the very idea of fan fiction, art, literature. Because that's what they are trying to achieve here.
[insert jonsills quotes]
I think you going overboard to compare Disney characters painted on a wall to robbing a bank at gun point. I have been at plenty of conventions and seen plenty of artists work on many works and brands without direct permission. I have yet to see Disney or Paramount come marching down and demanding that they are infringing upon their rights and take them to court. I doubt it's a matter of time, merely if they see it as direct threat to their purchased franchise.
They could sue this sites fan fiction if they wanted too, doesn't necessarily mean they will. And that's the problem. It looks like they are just cherry picking the ones that they don't like, which leads the whole confusion whether fanfilms, art, and literature should be automatically issued cease and desist threats. CBS and Paramount are not just suing because a guy may or may not be making a profit, they are challenging the works of non-CBS Paramount works as well.
About the COH being sued by Marvel. That kind of ridiculous issue happens all the time. You can no more sue someone for cosplaying, how is that any different? In DCUO they are selling Batman Cowl for $30 for crying out loud. Not exactly discouraging people to run around as recognisable/similar characters. It's absurd. But I'd have a good laugh if Warner Brothers came to my house telling me they were going to sue me for crating virtual character to represent a character that they happen to legally own.
Hell I was even thinking of making Captain Sulu in STO. Guess I'll have to wait to see if Paramount/Cryptic want's to punish me for that.
And why doesn't CBS/Paramount sue that adult flick "This Ain’t Star Trek" it's using everything CBS/Paramount are complaining about (TOS characters, theme, outfits) and it's selling it for direct profit.
But I do understand your points. Them using the Crowdfund to finance other projects directly is wrong (if that is indeed the case). The whole situation sounds shady for both sides.
"I'm still of the opinion that CBS/Paramount are suing because of the proximity Axanar would have to the new TV series and the next movie, and are simply using the infringement/profit angle as a legal justification, because the first, would get them laughed out of court." - marcusdkane
Now that sounds pretty spot on. CBS and Paramount are pretty close to selling their TV series (sigh) and releasing their own movie. They don't want direct view ship competition or to lose a portion of their fan base (wallets).
"That said, Alec Peters is guilty of obtaining funds by deception, of essentially starting business off the funders' dime, and trying to leverage himself into the self-appointed status of 'Star Trek Producer'. A couple of pages back, there was a link to a nearly two-hour long podcast... It's worth watching, simply to see how unprofessionally Mr Peters conducts himself, and when the interviewer tries to ask him questions he doesn't want to answer, he starts phoning his PR guy while online, to bleat to him that he's being asked questions which he feels the PR guy should address (instead of him) Alec Peters is clearly a tool* of the highest order... He deserves to get hit by whatever book they decide to throw at him, and if fans at a convention were to 'react aggressively' to his presence, I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for him ;)"
Well I wouldn't hit him with a book, lol. Guess I'll have to watch that if I can find it. I don't know if him starting off a business is just a by-product. I can't believe he would directly steal money from a crowdfund to support his own business. I'll wait to see how it turns out. Still going to be a blow to all crowdfunded fan films if they win. That and I want to watch that film *free* sounds good to me.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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Contrast CBS and Paramount, who once told YouTube to drop a third-party copyright claim against the fan film series Star Trek Continues and put it back on the web. They also for a long time financially supported fan fiction through their licensee Pocket Books with the Strange New Worlds competition, where fanfics written to particular criteria* would be professionally published in a yearly anthology for which the winning authors were paid.
So clearly, given the C/P track record of favorable regard for fan works, there's something different about the whole Axanar situation.
As for This Ain't Star Trek, parody, even laughably bad TRIBBLE parody, is fair use. That's also why Family Guy, Saturday Night Live, and The Carol Burnett Show could do Star Trek sketches: they're spoofs and therefore legally protected.
* Mainly "safe for work", no hurt/comfort fics, and you have to use canon characters as your protagonists.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I don't think CBS/Paramount is suing because of money or people complaining about them using funds to create a business once the fan film is over. It's because they see them as a threat on their intellectual property. Especially when they can't afford to have any competition when the new film is coming out this summer and a planned TV series that they are wanting to charge people to view online. Pretty much what marcusdkane said and I agree with him.There well within their rights to sue them for that alone. That's the issue here.
The same happened when community tried to make mod recreation of Tolkien world of LOTR in Skyrim. Warner Bros threatened to sue that fan made project. Not because they were attempting to make profit or gain career publicity. But because it was a threat on their intellectual property. The fan made community was giving something similar for free of the same standard, when Warner Bros are trying to sell people theirs. Competition is bad for their business and it doesn't matter if it's free, it's perceived as an attack.
Really hope CBS/Paramount doesn't win the case, but they probably will solely based on this. This pretty much means that you can be sue for anything, except your own ideas. Which thankfully they can't sue on, even if it's similar to theirs.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
As for the second boldened point, I don't mean to be harsh, but if you had actually read this thread fully, you would be well aware of the past discussions of this very point, and you would understand that there is absolutely no question, that Mr Peters has used the funds to create Ares Studios, a production facility which is not exclusive to Axanar, and is intended to be used as a leasable movie production facility to future projects, so shelve the benefit of the doubt you are extending him, and bring yourself upto date with the particulars of the case, rather than embarassing yourself through cognitive dissonance and extending good-will...
Look at his attempt to evade the lawsuit by trying to say that the suit wasn't specific in his IP violations... He never denied violation, he just turned round and said "Tell me what I've copied..." and then attempted to ludicrously break down to the concepts (ie pointy eared beings not being unique to Star Trek) beyond recognition to try and claim 'fair use'... Again, the near-two hour podcast shows just what an evasive and prevaricative piece of s**t he is... Sorry for the wake-up call, but Alec Peters is slime, plain and simple. He's pulled a really nice scam, and deserves whatever the courts hit him with... I actually now agree with the above-raised notion, of if he ever even intended to produce Axanar, but simply used that to bait the hook so he could get the $$s to build his own production company...
Whatever, you get my point, though.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Big budget hollywood movies are 150-200 mil. Smaller independent films are much small. Though most are probably closer to 10-15 mil. Veronica Mars, on the other had, made a TV movie to follow after the series, for 5 mil.
Regardless, Using the Star Trek name, to make a film, set in the Star Trek universe for 1.3 mil and thinking you can avoid the ire of the IP holder is foolish.
You clearly haven't been on these Forums long. Plenty of people have expressed displeasure with Cryptic/PWE over various decisions they have made. Some of them have even gone to criticize the professional integrity of Cryptic and its employees. And They remain on the forums. Read a forum thread on a new lockbox release, you will see just how much some people on the forum "love" those boxes.
Again, this thread has had multiple examples of Peters backpeddling in an effort to get out of the legal mess he is in. He says he is making a for profit studio. Then he says he is looking for non-profit status. He claims the script for Axanar is done. Then he claims CBS is suing prematurely, because there isn't even a script yet. He has likewise made claims that Vulcans are not copyrights of Star Trek as Vulcan is a Roman God. Despite using the character of Soval (and the actor who played him) in his vulcan scene, I believe.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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I can understand that point of view. And I think that is what makes it all the more aggravating what Peters did. From what i heard, a lot of people thought Axanar was going to be a great film. Not major motion picture great, but still well worth a watch.
But given the level of time he had to make the film and all the rest of it, I am more convinced then ever that somewhere along the process (and BEFORE either CBS/Paramount got involved) Peters stopped thinking about making the movie and just worked on how he could get more money from people who wanted to see his "awesome" movie (I have awesome in quotes only because there is literally NOTHING to judge really as far as what the movie would have been)
Again, I use the Veronica Mars movie, because despite being done by a major production company it WAS crowdfunded. After they raise the funds, a year later, They HAD the movie. It was a done deal and all the fans (and donors) got the movie they were promised.
By extension, Peters has had roughly the same amount of time (again figuring before the lawsuit as I am sure a temporary C&D was part of the initial litigation) and has NOTHING to show for it. No script, No sets, nothing. I think if you donated to the axanar crowdfund you have a right to ask where exactly your money went, when you are not seeing a movie you were promised.
My character Tsin'xing
Oh jeez. What gave it away? Clearly not my post count or that I said "newcomer". I mentioned it because people's expression, ideas, or opinions are not protected by human rights on the internet. It's there to protect you against your government, not mean admins on forum sites. I have seen people criticise on forums as well. And awful lot of them don't remain on the forums for long... Cryptic/PWE aren't any different. They can remove you without a reason, because they own the site. Anyone that thinks otherwise is very naïve. If anyone manages to remain it's because they were careful to follow the rules closely, walked a very fine line, or happened to have many accounts. But this is entirely off-topic. I don't want to argue if PWE is fair to it's forum members. But that making any kind of criticism on a forum site (including Axanar) isn't going to grantee that you will not be censored or forcible removed as punishment.
"Again, this thread has had multiple examples of Peters backpeddling in an effort to get out of the legal mess he is in. He says he is making a for profit studio. Then he says he is looking for non-profit status. He claims the script for Axanar is done. Then he claims CBS is suing prematurely, because there isn't even a script yet. He has likewise made claims that Vulcans are not copyrights of Star Trek as Vulcan is a Roman God. Despite using the character of Soval (and the actor who played him) in his vulcan scene, I believe." - voyagerfan9751
Well I can't comment on that at all. I'll wait and see in 2017 if he is what you say "back peddling".
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes