"As for the second boldened point, I don't mean to be harsh, but if you had actually read this thread fully, you would be well aware of the past discussions of this very point, and you would understand that there is absolutely no question, that Mr Peters has used the funds to create Ares Studios, a production facility which is not exclusive to Axanar, and is intended to be used as a leasable movie production facility to future projects, so shelve the benefit of the doubt you are extending him, and bring yourself upto date with the particulars of the case, rather than embarassing yourself through cognitive dissonance and extending good-will...
Look at his attempt to evade the lawsuit by trying to say that the suit wasn't specific in his IP violations... He never denied violation, he just turned round and said "Tell me what I've copied..." and then attempted to ludicrously break down to the concepts (ie pointy eared beings not being unique to Star Trek) beyond recognition to try and claim 'fair use'... Again, the near-two hour podcast shows just what an evasive and prevaricative piece of s**t he is... Sorry for the wake-up call, but Alec Peters is slime, plain and simple. He's pulled a really nice scam, and deserves whatever the courts hit him with... I actually now agree with the above-raised notion, of if he ever even intended to produce Axanar, but simply used that to bait the hook so he could get the $$s to build his own production company..." - marcusdkane
You're right way too far... I have read enough to get a sense of what people are complaining about. But you can't accuse me of deliberately being ignorant... I had to read that twice just so I wasn't mistaken of what I just read. Telling me to "shelve the benefit of the doubt your giving him" Excuse me?!
"Bring myself up to date with the particulars of the case, rather than embarassing yourself through cognitive dissonance and extending good-will..."
Oh so having a open view on it and not passionately bashing the guy like all of you have done makes me an embarrassment? And misfit. Well that's good to know... Glad we cleared that up. Not like I had intelligent or otherwise conflicting view on the matter. I knew earlier people passionately disagreed with me and thought I was probably some fool coming here and crashing in the thread... but wow.
If I want to extend good will to someone that you despise, that's my call to make. Not you, or anyone else here.
"Sorry for the wake-up call"
Yeah I am sorry I even came across this thread or anticipated in it. I am starting to wonder if my friends in-game were correct on their stance of why not to come to this particular forum. But I thought it was just like any other place on the internet. It's a pity they were right and I was hugely mistaken.
Sorry that you all felt that I was an embarrassment. I won't be discussing anything more on this matter. Have a nice day arguing over it..... :s And to update you on what have just done here, intentionally or unintentionally, is probably considered cyber bullying.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Terr, I stopped reading when you attempted to claim that DCUO selling a Batman cowl for $30 had anything to do with trademark or fair use. The company making DCUO paid the license fees to use that universe. It's not some third party who just decided one day to make a game based on DC Comics' properties; it's a company that officially licensed the right to make an MMO from Warner Brothers' DC Comics division. Everything they do has been paid for and approved by the IP holder, just as every T1 Constitution- and NX-class you see flying around in the early missions was approved by CBS (the primary reason why there's no such thing as a Tier 6 Connie - Cryptic would love to have the money for that rolling into their coffers, but the IP owner, CBS, says no).
And my point about the day care is that it doesn't matter how "small-time" the business is, if you infringe on the IP of a major player (like, for instance, Disney, now the parent company of Marvel), they're going to come down on you like a ton of adamantium. Anyone selling Marvel merch online is living on borrowed time - just as Peters was, in selling his Trek merch without permission.
Really, you should take an hour or so and at least skim the first 32 pages of this thread before making us debunk various arguments again. It gets tiresome.
"As for the second boldened point, I don't mean to be harsh, but if you had actually read this thread fully, you would be well aware of the past discussions of this very point, and you would understand that there is absolutely no question, that Mr Peters has used the funds to create Ares Studios, a production facility which is not exclusive to Axanar, and is intended to be used as a leasable movie production facility to future projects, so shelve the benefit of the doubt you are extending him, and bring yourself upto date with the particulars of the case, rather than embarassing yourself through cognitive dissonance and extending good-will...
Look at his attempt to evade the lawsuit by trying to say that the suit wasn't specific in his IP violations... He never denied violation, he just turned round and said "Tell me what I've copied..." and then attempted to ludicrously break down to the concepts (ie pointy eared beings not being unique to Star Trek) beyond recognition to try and claim 'fair use'... Again, the near-two hour podcast shows just what an evasive and prevaricative piece of s**t he is... Sorry for the wake-up call, but Alec Peters is slime, plain and simple. He's pulled a really nice scam, and deserves whatever the courts hit him with... I actually now agree with the above-raised notion, of if he ever even intended to produce Axanar, but simply used that to bait the hook so he could get the $$s to build his own production company..." - marcusdkane
You're right way too far... I have read enough to get a sense of what people are complaining about. But you can't accuse me of deliberately being ignorant... I had to read that twice just so I wasn't mistaken of what I just read. Telling me to "shelve the benefit of the doubt your giving him" Excuse me?!
It's an easy enough suggestion, and no, I won't excuse you... You've wandered into a 30+ page discussion which has been underway for months, and started posting opinions without availing yourself of the facts of the case, or even the discussions which have taken place. Why should we bring you upto date with our conversation, when you not only couldn't bother to catch up yourself, but are questioning the very things which, had you read the thread, you would have seen have already been discussed at length...
Oh so having a open view on it and not passionately bashing the guy like all of you have done makes me an embarrassment? And misfit.
Not at all, it's certainly your prerogative to have your own view and opinion on the subject. But to start posting it without taking the time to catch up on the existing discussions, which have already covered the points you are bringing up and trying to suggest, is embarassing yourself due to you not familiarizing yourself with the topic and discussions under conversation...
Not like I had intelligent or otherwise conflicting view on the matter. I knew earlier people passionately disagreed with me and thought I was probably some fool coming here and crashing in the thread... but wow.
So why did you do it? So you could play victim when you embarassed yourself for questioning facts of the case which were discussed months ago? As above, 30+ pages... Everyone is welcome to comment, that's what the forum is here for, but at least have the self-respect to bring yourself up to date with the conversation first, so you can contribute constructively, not just make observations which are nothing more than cognitive dissonance and benefit of the doubt to someone who demonstrably (and has been demonstrated in this thread ) doesn't deserve it...
Yeah I am sorry I even came across this thread or anticipated in it. I am starting to wonder if my friends in-game were correct on their stance of why not to come to this particular forum. But I thought it was just like any other place on the internet. It's a pity they were right and I was hugely mistaken.
Sorry that you all felt that I was an embarrassment. I won't be discussing anything more on this matter. Have a nice day arguing over it..... And to update you on what have just done here, intentionally or unintentionally, is probably considered cyber bullying.
Sorry, but correcting points which you are not only making in error, but would have not made had you familiarized yourself with the conversation, is certainly not cyber-bullying... It's called 'being corrected'... If you think that is 'cyber-bullying', then, I won't tell you to jog on to a 'safe-space', but I would advise you to bring yourself upto speed on any topics you decide to wander into, like a child walking into the middle of a movie, and then wondering what is going on, on any forum you may post on in the future...
If this was all simply conjecture, then I would be a bit more understanding, but not only is the information all contained in the preceding 30+ pages, but since you've commented, myself and others have tried to clarify exactly what is going on, and all you've done, is say "I don't believe it..." Well, if you had read those 30+ pages (in addition to dozens of articles flying round the net on the subject) then you not only would believe it, but you'd understand full well why people are massively ticked off with Alec Peters... This is not just 'random hate at some dude', but several legitimate beefs with a guy who could potentially spell the end of all fan productions, for no reason beyond his own greed and ego. Had you read the thread, read the articles, watched the pod-cast, I assure you that you would understand the ire, and possibly even agree with it...
"Terr, I stopped reading when you attempted to claim that DCUO selling a Batman cowl for $30 had anything to do with trademark or fair use. The company making DCUO paid the license fees to use that universe. It's not some third party who just decided one day to make a game based on DC Comics' properties; it's a company that officially licensed the right to make an MMO from Warner Brothers' DC Comics division. Everything they do has been paid for and approved by the IP holder, just as every T1 Constitution- and NX-class you see flying around in the early missions was approved by CBS (the primary reason why there's no such thing as a Tier 6 Connie - Cryptic would love to have the money for that rolling into their coffers, but the IP owner, CBS, says no).
And my point about the day care is that it doesn't matter how "small-time" the business is, if you infringe on the IP of a major player (like, for instance, Disney, now the parent company of Marvel), they're going to come down on you like a ton of adamantium. Anyone selling Marvel merch online is living on borrowed time - just as Peters was, in selling his Trek merch without permission.
Really, you should take an hour or so and at least skim the first 32 pages of this thread before making us debunk various arguments again. It gets tiresome." - jonsills
Well that's really unfortunate for me for reading all of yours. Looks like I wasted my time. You mentioned that Marvel sued Cryptic because people could make carbon copies. And Cryptic would go to great lengths to remove anyone infringing upon it that would do so by making characters almost like the main characters from other franchises. When I mentioned the Batman Cowl I meant to say they are not exactly discouraging people to recreate other recognisable characters. I could easily make Black Panther with the cowl in their game. And you don't even need that, you can already make large number of other franchise characters in DCUO. You can do the same thing in STO.
So if I happen to sell painting of Darth Vader, you trying to say to me it's only a matter of time before Micky Mouse suits are knocking on my door from the US? Yep, they probably could. The same goes for any fan art, and fan fiction. But they won't. Because they would have to do the same thing for the other 1000 artists that do the same thing. That and it's not considered harmful enough for them. Not to mention the backlash they would receive for little to no return.
You also make it sound like a certainty that they will 'win'. Which I can happily "debunk" you. I can post links. But the man who created the original stormtrooper helmets was sued by Lucas film for making new molds and selling them. And guess what he won!
Nobody is forcing you. I did eventually read some more pages. I even watched a video of someone claiming he was a fraud months ago. That doesn't mean I am going to agree with you solely because you have personal issues with the guy (which some of you clearly go out of your way to show). This thread is not a pleasant discussion anymore. It has become a negative and hate fuelled pool of toxic. And frankly becoming really unpleasant just to spend anymore time looking at it. I'd flag and report it if it wasn't due to the problematic circumstance that I haven't been here long to give me the ability to report flaming. So I'll make it simpler for you by not engaging and I hope you're 'tired' enough to follow suit.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"Terr, I stopped reading when you attempted to claim that DCUO selling a Batman cowl for $30 had anything to do with trademark or fair use. The company making DCUO paid the license fees to use that universe. It's not some third party who just decided one day to make a game based on DC Comics' properties; it's a company that officially licensed the right to make an MMO from Warner Brothers' DC Comics division. Everything they do has been paid for and approved by the IP holder, just as every T1 Constitution- and NX-class you see flying around in the early missions was approved by CBS (the primary reason why there's no such thing as a Tier 6 Connie - Cryptic would love to have the money for that rolling into their coffers, but the IP owner, CBS, says no).
And my point about the day care is that it doesn't matter how "small-time" the business is, if you infringe on the IP of a major player (like, for instance, Disney, now the parent company of Marvel), they're going to come down on you like a ton of adamantium. Anyone selling Marvel merch online is living on borrowed time - just as Peters was, in selling his Trek merch without permission.
Really, you should take an hour or so and at least skim the first 32 pages of this thread before making us debunk various arguments again. It gets tiresome." - jonsills
Well that's really unfortunate for me for reading all of yours. Looks like I wasted my time. You mentioned that Marvel sued Cryptic because people could make carbon copies. And Cryptic would go to great lengths to remove anyone infringing upon it that would do so by making characters almost like the main characters from other franchises. When I mentioned the Batman Cowl I meant to say they are not exactly discouraging people to recreate other recognisable characters. I could easily make Black Panther with the cowl in their game. And you don't even need that, you can already make large number of other franchise characters in DCUO. You can do the same thing in STO.
So if I happen to sell painting of Darth Vader, you trying to say to me it's only a matter of time before Micky Mouse suits are knocking on my door from the US? Yep, they probably could. The same goes for any fan art, and fan fiction. But they won't. Because they would have to do the same thing for the other 1000 artists that do the same thing. That and it's not considered harmful enough for them. Not to mention the backlash they would receive for little to no return.
You also make it sound like a certainty that they will 'win'. Which I can happily "debunk" you. I can post links. But the man who created the original stormtrooper helmets was sued by Lucas film for making new molds and selling them. And guess what he won!
Nobody is forcing you. I did eventually read some more pages. I even watched a video of someone claiming he was a fraud months ago. That doesn't mean I am going to agree with you solely because you have personal issues with the guy (which some of you clearly go out of your way to show). This thread is not a pleasant discussion anymore. It has become a negative and hate fuelled pool of toxic. And frankly becoming really unpleasant just to spend anymore time looking at it. I'd flag and report it if it wasn't due to the problematic circumstance that I haven't been here long to give me the ability to report flaming. So I'll make it simpler for you by not engaging and I hope you're 'tired' enough to follow suit.
Get a grip! What exactly is 'toxic' about opinions different to yours? The fact you used the word 'problematic' says all I need to know about you. You're clearly a social justice warrior. So now I will say go back to your safe-space... If you don't want to take part in our conversation, then don't. This topic has been under discussion for almost six months, and the content explored and discussed within, is precisely why people feel so strongly about this issue. Had you bothered to read the thread, or as jonsills suggested, at least skimmed it, you would understand those feelings, and as suggested above, possibly even agree with them. As I said, there is a pod-cast (possibly within the previous five pages, certainly within the past ten) which not only explains exactly what is going on, but explores exactly what is going on, as well as some extremely damning behaviour by Alec Peters. As mentioned, it's nearly two hours long, but it is worth watching, because it will bring you right up to speed with things, and shows Alec Peters' true colors. Watch it, and see for yourself...
[Edit] Here's the link... Please consider watching it... (It's actually just over an hour long, I mis-remembered the timing as I was continually interrupted while watching it before...)
marcusdkane I'd advise you to stop while you're ahead and re-read the kind of behaviour you're proudly displaying. You can't accuse someone of being ignorant... and call me an embarrassment... then you say you're not trying to be hurtful? Do you even care about what who you upset? That by itself is pretty hurtful. Then you start accusing me of 'pretending' to give good-will to Axanar? And then you have the nerve to defend it by saying I didn't read 33 pages, when I have been on the first two and have already caught up. But because I don't agree with you and some others your going to start running me down like I shouldn't be on the forums?
How on earth can you think that's acceptable behaviour. It doesn't matter what happens on 'safe-space' or any other social media you use. There are just some certain things you just don't do. I am fine if most of you completely disagree with me. You can call me whatever name you want offline. But you can't belittle someone on the threads just because they don't happen to nod their heads in agreement with you. It wouldn't matter if I came here at the beginning. Who's to say you wouldn't have ended up accusing me of the exact same things solely because I don't share you stance on the topic.
What's with the metaphor?
"I would advise you to bring yourself upto speed on any topics you decide to wander into, like a child walking into the middle of a movie, and then wondering what is going on, on any forum you may post on in the future..."
Now your accusing me of being an ignorant child... so you're telling me that I am suppose to take that as "correctness" and not an insult and attempt at cyberbullying? Must be very pleasant to live in a world where all can start slandering people you don't like and pass it off as "correcting errors" and say my views are facts. I already agreed with most with on many points and caught up with everything, but because I still stubbornly agreeing with you at the end you resort to this?
All I see is someone attempting to justify their actions to ridicule someone that hasn't agreed with their own views. You can pass it on to yourself however you like. And I wasn't purposely going out of my way to become as you say "victim".
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I think you should re-read the last 2 pages if you don't think this thread has become "toxic".
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"Disney and Lucasfilm WAAAAYYYY before being bought by Disney are extremely lawsuit happy. There is a little mom and pop bakery in my town that has a big sign stating that they cannot do Disney characters on cakes or other baked good, first thing you see coming in the door. If you find someplace selling Disney or SW merch they are licensed or heading for a shut down at warp speed. Lucas himself has sued dozens of people over the years and under Disney the rules are even tighter."
Yeah I have noticed. They tried suing the guy that made the original storm trooper helmets for making new ones and selling them. Lucas lost the case. And the guy won. There are plenty of cases of copyright infringements backfiring on the people that issued them.
Just have to wait and see how this one turns out.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
marcusdkane I'd advise you to stop while you're ahead and re-read the kind of behaviour you're proudly displaying. You can't accuse someone of being ignorant... and call me an embarrassment... then you say you're not trying to be hurtful? Do you even care about what who you upset? That by itself is pretty hurtful. Then you start accusing me of 'pretending' to give good-will to Axanar? And then you have the nerve to defend it by saying I didn't read 33 pages, when I have been on the first two and have already caught up. But because I don't agree with you and some others your going to start running me down like I shouldn't be on the forums?
How on earth can you think that's acceptable behaviour. It doesn't matter what happens on 'safe-space' or any other social media you use. There are just some certain things you just don't do. I am fine if most of you completely disagree with me. You can call me whatever name you want offline. But you can't belittle someone on the threads just because they don't happen to nod their heads in agreement with you. It wouldn't matter if I came here at the beginning. Who's to say you wouldn't have ended up accusing me of the exact same things solely because I don't share you stance on the topic.
What's with the metaphor?
"I would advise you to bring yourself upto speed on any topics you decide to wander into, like a child walking into the middle of a movie, and then wondering what is going on, on any forum you may post on in the future..."
Now your accusing me of being an ignorant child... so you're telling me that I am suppose to take that as "correctness" and not an insult and attempt at cyberbullying? Must be very pleasant to live in a world where all can start slandering people you don't like and pass it off as "correcting errors" and say my views are facts. I already agreed with most with on many points and caught up with everything, but because I still stubbornly agreeing with you at the end you resort to this?
All I see is someone attempting to justify their actions to ridicule someone that hasn't agreed with their own views. You can pass it on to yourself however you like. And I wasn't purposely going out of my way to become as you say "victim".
I haven't called you an embarassment, I said that you have embarassed yourself. There is a difference... I also never accused you of 'pretending' to give good will to Axanar... I stated that your statement that you didn't believe (whatever the point was) was cognitive dissonance... (a valid psychological term) By your own admission, you came into a thread knowing (or at the very least suspecting) that people were going to disagree with the points you made. Points which you might not have made had you actually read the entire thread, and read the articles, and viewed the pod-cast... As before, you have not 'been bullied', you have 'been corrected'. Again, there is a difference, so yes, you have clearly tried to put yourself in the role of victim.
This is not a case of 'disagreement of opinion', but you are making statements which simply do not apply, and have been shown to not apply, to this case, over five months of conversation. If you don't understand the metaphor, I doubt I could explain it any more simply...
As above, please consider watching the pod-cast. But don't think that you can guilt me into retracting my statements or reviewing my stance, because I have stated nothing but the truth or plain facts: All you had to do was read the whole thread so you understood the case, before commenting... It's not our fault you couldn't/wouldn't do that... You've already stated you don't wish to continue the conversation, so please follow your own advice...
"Disney and Lucasfilm WAAAAYYYY before being bought by Disney are extremely lawsuit happy. There is a little mom and pop bakery in my town that has a big sign stating that they cannot do Disney characters on cakes or other baked good, first thing you see coming in the door. If you find someplace selling Disney or SW merch they are licensed or heading for a shut down at warp speed. Lucas himself has sued dozens of people over the years and under Disney the rules are even tighter."
Yeah I have noticed. They tried suing the guy that made the original storm trooper helmets for making new ones and selling them. Lucas lost the case. And the guy won. There are plenty of cases of copyright infringements backfiring on the people that issued them.
Just have to wait and see how this one turns out.
Yet when Lucas sued Battlestar Galactica back in the late 70s the show was cancelled. For every case you might find of a copyright lawsuit "backfiring" on the IP holder I guarantee you will find dozens more where the IP holder won easily. Alec Peters is going to lose period, only question is if he settles out of court or if he actually manages to make it into court with his skin intact, no matter what he loses.
If I recall correctly, Lucas still lost that case. It was cancelled because ABC deliberately moved it into the family time slot so it would die and they could air other shows instead.
I loved the 70s BSG. The cylons had more personality and in my opinion looked better. "By you command!" That legal dispute was ridiculous though. I think those two had a habit of suing each other frequently. I wasn't aware that the actual show was cancelled because of it. I was too young then.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I loved the 70s BSG. The cylons had more personality and in my opinion looked better. "By you command!" That legal dispute was ridiculous though. I think those two had a habit of suing each other frequently. I wasn't aware that the actual show was cancelled because of it. I was too young then.
It wasn't. It was cancelled because it had too few ratings (which was because ABC moved it to a time slot where they knew nobody would watch it).
Expected as much. They had to change some things. But the presiding judge probably ultimately realized that every sci-fi book/movie/etc. is just a variant of another sci-fi book/movie/etc.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Expected as much. They had to change some things. But the presiding judge probably ultimately realized that every sci-fi book/movie/etc. is just a variant of another sci-fi book/movie/etc.
Probably. The funny part was that Lucas sued over BSG using practical models for the special effects and the use of lasers, like he'd been the first to do it in the first place! (Star Trek, Buck Rogers, etc.)
"Yes if you sell paintings of Darth Vader then you will get Disney/Lucasfilm coming down on your neck hard with a diamond edged axe."
Well I did. I'll be waiting for them if they want to wrestle me over it. But if they bring a lightsaber it better not be that silly cross guard or I'll smack them silly with my FX Darth Maul lightsaber.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I'll be straight forward and say I do like the JJ trek a little bit and might for a few seconds get into the fast and the federation because that is what this game ended out to be so its roughly got some common ground with STO. Although the way they are coming after the production leader and fans who donated I really can't see myself wanting to go see their new movie. That is one reason I believe Justin Lin spoke up because its down right stupid what cbs is doing down to owning vulcans and owning the klingon language its only going to hurt his first run at this franchise movie. On the other hand it may just be a ploy to show how much he cares about the franchise and right when the movie comes out they will say okay we are dropping the lawsuit because we value you fans lol
I'll be straight forward and say I do like the JJ trek a little bit and might for a few seconds get into the fast and the federation because that is what this game ended out to be so its roughly got some common ground with STO. Although the way they are coming after the production leader and fans who donated I really can't see myself wanting to go see their new movie. That is one reason I believe Justin Lin spoke up because its down right stupid what cbs is doing down to owning vulcans and owning the klingon language its only going to hurt his first run at this franchise movie. On the other hand it may just be a ploy to show how much he cares about the franchise and right when the movie comes out they will say okay we are dropping the lawsuit because we value you fans lol
Good for you. And I apologise if anyone has issues with your opinion and attempts to take a 'dump' on it so to speak for not seeing it their way.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I'll be straight forward and say I do like the JJ trek a little bit and might for a few seconds get into the fast and the federation because that is what this game ended out to be so its roughly got some common ground with STO. Although the way they are coming after the production leader and fans who donated I really can't see myself wanting to go see their new movie. That is one reason I believe Justin Lin spoke up because its down right stupid what cbs is doing down to owning vulcans and owning the klingon language its only going to hurt his first run at this franchise movie. On the other hand it may just be a ploy to show how much he cares about the franchise and right when the movie comes out they will say okay we are dropping the lawsuit because we value you fans lol
First, To my knowledge neither CBS nor Paramount have ever, nor shown any indication they might ever go after donors. Their beef is with Axanar Productions and its Principal, Alec Peters.
Second, As much as you might like Axanar, and wish it could/would get made (and you are NOT alone on that AT ALL), I can't blame CBS or Paramount for going after Peters. Especially in this case though.
1) Remember that Fan films in general are subject to potential litigation by IP holders. No, most don't face legal action. And yes, Fan films have been a part of Star Trek for a very long time, if not from the beginning. However, that does not change the fact that there is no "Legitimate" fan film. You are using someone else's intellectual property, without their permission. Those are the Facts. That said, CBS has been shown to be very willing to overlook fan films in the past. And as noted in this thread, Even went to bat for Star Trek Continues (a fan film) when You Tube took it down because they felt it violated copyright.
2) Alec Peters has crowdfunded roughly 1.3 mil for "Axanar". By his own admission. Most fan-films are in the order of 10,000 to 60,000. So he raised WAY in excess of what many would consider needed to make a good fan film. The amount alone should have told him it would raise a few eyebrows with CBS/Paramount.
3) His site has also sold merchandise related to Axanar, And (If I remember correctly) other properties, all of which he has no legal right to do.
4) he has used the funds from the "Axanar" crowdfund to pay himself 38k salary, and purchase a Film Studio. Which he himself has said, he would use for profit, for other projects besides just Axanar.
5) Alec Peters has been "working" on Axanar for roughly a year. And it is still in "pre-production". A year and 1.3 million dollars in crowdfunds and he has NOTHING to show for it. Even in Hollywood terms if a project is in Pre-production for a year, with nothing to show for it, it is said to be in "Development Hell" meaning it most likely isn't going to be made. Granted getting a project started in Hollywood should be much harder then doing a fan-film. Which is suppose to be a labor of love.
6) He has consistently changed his story. as to his intent and what he is or isn't planning on doing. Depending on the situation. I can't go over all of them. But this thread has multiple examples where he has said one thing about his intentions, and then later said literally the exact opposite.
How you can look at all this. Again, all detailed in this thread with various sources sited, and still feel Alec Peters is the victim in all this, being bullied by the evil corporations of CBS/Paramount, I do not know. If anyone is the victim(s) here, it is the fans who truely wanted to see this fan-film. I however am more convinced then ever that, with or without CBS/Paramount's lawsuit, it was NEVER going to happen.
Yes, CBS has a trademark on aliens called "Vulcans", with pointed ears and a love of logic. You can have aliens with pointy ears; you can have aliens with a logical mindset; but if you combine the two and call them "Vulcans", you're obviously in violation of trademark, and only a litigious fool would even pretend otherwise.
Same for the Klingon language; I can show you the copyright statement in every copy, if you'd like. Marc Okrand would also like to be paid for his work, if that's all the same to you.
Terr, if you're what folks have taken to calling a "social justice warrior", please - stop letting the words be perverted like that. Disagreement with your precious ignorance isn't "bullying", nor is attempting to educate you before you embarrass yourself further. Now, if you want to look like you're being willfully ignorant of the facts of this case, feel free - but you needn't expect to see anything like what you might call "respect" in exchange.
Edit: Deleted. I decided to remove this because it will just encourage more arguing. I still stand firm to my opinion. If anyone has a problem with me giving "good-will" to Axanar and it's crew. I am sorry, but that's my decision. You can't justify to me all the naming of "Justice Social Warrior" or being an "embarrassment" because you take offence for me supporting a company you despise.
And apologise for allowing it to continue.
"Live Long and Prosper"
Post edited by terranempire#7881 on
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I haven't seen anyone be particularly mean to you Terranempire, blunt in pointing out that your opinion is uninformed yes but not mean. People have pointed out facts to you such as mr. Peters using the crowdfunding for Axanar to pay himself and a few other people on his crew salaries, using crowdfunding from Axanar to set up his own for-profit production studio, and selling Axanar merchandise using copyright and trademarked Star Trek images all without permission. That is only what I could think of off the top of my head.
As for people being impatient with you, this incident has hit a lot of people hard. I know there were many people looking forward to Axanar and the initial reaction many had to the lawsuit was to immediately jump to Axanar's defense. However as time has gone on and more information has come to light it looks more and more like mr. Peters was scamming the donors funding Axanar, or at the very least is being dishonest with what he was using the donor funds for and for some insane reason know only to him believed he could get away with it.
The actions of mr. Peters have upset many people who were once staunch supporters of him and Axanar and turned them against him.
Edit: Deleted. I decided to remove this because it will just encourage more arguing. I still stand firm to my opinion. If anyone has a problem with me giving "good-will" to Axanar and it's crew. I am sorry, but that's my decision. You can't justify to me all the naming of "Justice Social Warrior" or being an "embarrassment" because you take offence for me supporting a company you despise.
And apologise for allowing it to continue.
"Live Long and Prosper"
No one ever called you an embarrassment, they said you were embarrassing yourself, there is a huge difference between the two statements.
A Canadian calling a basketball hoop a ring is embarrassing.
I never embarrassed myself. I was accused of it. And it was solely because I hadn't made my mind about it at the time and I got grief because of it. And even after that I still support Axanar. And I like JJ Trek, TNG, and Voyager.
A Canadian calling a basketball hoop a ring is embarrassing.
An orange billionaire is an embarrassment.
Some people would call JJ Trek an embarrassment or calling Star Trek Into Darkness a Star Trek film is embarrassing. Doesn't mean they are right. And I don't care to argue upon it with you.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Comments
Look at his attempt to evade the lawsuit by trying to say that the suit wasn't specific in his IP violations... He never denied violation, he just turned round and said "Tell me what I've copied..." and then attempted to ludicrously break down to the concepts (ie pointy eared beings not being unique to Star Trek) beyond recognition to try and claim 'fair use'... Again, the near-two hour podcast shows just what an evasive and prevaricative piece of s**t he is... Sorry for the wake-up call, but Alec Peters is slime, plain and simple. He's pulled a really nice scam, and deserves whatever the courts hit him with... I actually now agree with the above-raised notion, of if he ever even intended to produce Axanar, but simply used that to bait the hook so he could get the $$s to build his own production company..." - marcusdkane
You're right way too far... I have read enough to get a sense of what people are complaining about. But you can't accuse me of deliberately being ignorant... I had to read that twice just so I wasn't mistaken of what I just read. Telling me to "shelve the benefit of the doubt your giving him" Excuse me?!
"Bring myself up to date with the particulars of the case, rather than embarassing yourself through cognitive dissonance and extending good-will..."
Oh so having a open view on it and not passionately bashing the guy like all of you have done makes me an embarrassment? And misfit. Well that's good to know... Glad we cleared that up. Not like I had intelligent or otherwise conflicting view on the matter. I knew earlier people passionately disagreed with me and thought I was probably some fool coming here and crashing in the thread... but wow.
If I want to extend good will to someone that you despise, that's my call to make. Not you, or anyone else here.
"Sorry for the wake-up call"
Yeah I am sorry I even came across this thread or anticipated in it. I am starting to wonder if my friends in-game were correct on their stance of why not to come to this particular forum. But I thought it was just like any other place on the internet. It's a pity they were right and I was hugely mistaken.
Sorry that you all felt that I was an embarrassment. I won't be discussing anything more on this matter. Have a nice day arguing over it..... :s And to update you on what have just done here, intentionally or unintentionally, is probably considered cyber bullying.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
And my point about the day care is that it doesn't matter how "small-time" the business is, if you infringe on the IP of a major player (like, for instance, Disney, now the parent company of Marvel), they're going to come down on you like a ton of adamantium. Anyone selling Marvel merch online is living on borrowed time - just as Peters was, in selling his Trek merch without permission.
Really, you should take an hour or so and at least skim the first 32 pages of this thread before making us debunk various arguments again. It gets tiresome.
Not at all, it's certainly your prerogative to have your own view and opinion on the subject. But to start posting it without taking the time to catch up on the existing discussions, which have already covered the points you are bringing up and trying to suggest, is embarassing yourself due to you not familiarizing yourself with the topic and discussions under conversation...
So why did you do it? So you could play victim when you embarassed yourself for questioning facts of the case which were discussed months ago? As above, 30+ pages... Everyone is welcome to comment, that's what the forum is here for, but at least have the self-respect to bring yourself up to date with the conversation first, so you can contribute constructively, not just make observations which are nothing more than cognitive dissonance and benefit of the doubt to someone who demonstrably (and has been demonstrated in this thread ) doesn't deserve it...
Sorry, but correcting points which you are not only making in error, but would have not made had you familiarized yourself with the conversation, is certainly not cyber-bullying... It's called 'being corrected'... If you think that is 'cyber-bullying', then, I won't tell you to jog on to a 'safe-space', but I would advise you to bring yourself upto speed on any topics you decide to wander into, like a child walking into the middle of a movie, and then wondering what is going on, on any forum you may post on in the future...
If this was all simply conjecture, then I would be a bit more understanding, but not only is the information all contained in the preceding 30+ pages, but since you've commented, myself and others have tried to clarify exactly what is going on, and all you've done, is say "I don't believe it..." Well, if you had read those 30+ pages (in addition to dozens of articles flying round the net on the subject) then you not only would believe it, but you'd understand full well why people are massively ticked off with Alec Peters... This is not just 'random hate at some dude', but several legitimate beefs with a guy who could potentially spell the end of all fan productions, for no reason beyond his own greed and ego. Had you read the thread, read the articles, watched the pod-cast, I assure you that you would understand the ire, and possibly even agree with it...
And my point about the day care is that it doesn't matter how "small-time" the business is, if you infringe on the IP of a major player (like, for instance, Disney, now the parent company of Marvel), they're going to come down on you like a ton of adamantium. Anyone selling Marvel merch online is living on borrowed time - just as Peters was, in selling his Trek merch without permission.
Really, you should take an hour or so and at least skim the first 32 pages of this thread before making us debunk various arguments again. It gets tiresome." - jonsills
Well that's really unfortunate for me for reading all of yours. Looks like I wasted my time. You mentioned that Marvel sued Cryptic because people could make carbon copies. And Cryptic would go to great lengths to remove anyone infringing upon it that would do so by making characters almost like the main characters from other franchises. When I mentioned the Batman Cowl I meant to say they are not exactly discouraging people to recreate other recognisable characters. I could easily make Black Panther with the cowl in their game. And you don't even need that, you can already make large number of other franchise characters in DCUO. You can do the same thing in STO.
So if I happen to sell painting of Darth Vader, you trying to say to me it's only a matter of time before Micky Mouse suits are knocking on my door from the US? Yep, they probably could. The same goes for any fan art, and fan fiction. But they won't. Because they would have to do the same thing for the other 1000 artists that do the same thing. That and it's not considered harmful enough for them. Not to mention the backlash they would receive for little to no return.
You also make it sound like a certainty that they will 'win'. Which I can happily "debunk" you. I can post links. But the man who created the original stormtrooper helmets was sued by Lucas film for making new molds and selling them. And guess what he won!
Nobody is forcing you. I did eventually read some more pages. I even watched a video of someone claiming he was a fraud months ago. That doesn't mean I am going to agree with you solely because you have personal issues with the guy (which some of you clearly go out of your way to show). This thread is not a pleasant discussion anymore. It has become a negative and hate fuelled pool of toxic. And frankly becoming really unpleasant just to spend anymore time looking at it. I'd flag and report it if it wasn't due to the problematic circumstance that I haven't been here long to give me the ability to report flaming. So I'll make it simpler for you by not engaging and I hope you're 'tired' enough to follow suit.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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[Edit] Here's the link... Please consider watching it... (It's actually just over an hour long, I mis-remembered the timing as I was continually interrupted while watching it before...)
How on earth can you think that's acceptable behaviour. It doesn't matter what happens on 'safe-space' or any other social media you use. There are just some certain things you just don't do. I am fine if most of you completely disagree with me. You can call me whatever name you want offline. But you can't belittle someone on the threads just because they don't happen to nod their heads in agreement with you. It wouldn't matter if I came here at the beginning. Who's to say you wouldn't have ended up accusing me of the exact same things solely because I don't share you stance on the topic.
What's with the metaphor?
"I would advise you to bring yourself upto speed on any topics you decide to wander into, like a child walking into the middle of a movie, and then wondering what is going on, on any forum you may post on in the future..."
Now your accusing me of being an ignorant child... so you're telling me that I am suppose to take that as "correctness" and not an insult and attempt at cyberbullying? Must be very pleasant to live in a world where all can start slandering people you don't like and pass it off as "correcting errors" and say my views are facts. I already agreed with most with on many points and caught up with everything, but because I still stubbornly agreeing with you at the end you resort to this?
All I see is someone attempting to justify their actions to ridicule someone that hasn't agreed with their own views. You can pass it on to yourself however you like. And I wasn't purposely going out of my way to become as you say "victim".
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Yeah I have noticed. They tried suing the guy that made the original storm trooper helmets for making new ones and selling them. Lucas lost the case. And the guy won. There are plenty of cases of copyright infringements backfiring on the people that issued them.
Just have to wait and see how this one turns out.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
This is not a case of 'disagreement of opinion', but you are making statements which simply do not apply, and have been shown to not apply, to this case, over five months of conversation. If you don't understand the metaphor, I doubt I could explain it any more simply...
As above, please consider watching the pod-cast. But don't think that you can guilt me into retracting my statements or reviewing my stance, because I have stated nothing but the truth or plain facts: All you had to do was read the whole thread so you understood the case, before commenting... It's not our fault you couldn't/wouldn't do that... You've already stated you don't wish to continue the conversation, so please follow your own advice...
If I recall correctly, Lucas still lost that case. It was cancelled because ABC deliberately moved it into the family time slot so it would die and they could air other shows instead.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
It wasn't. It was cancelled because it had too few ratings (which was because ABC moved it to a time slot where they knew nobody would watch it).
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Probably. The funny part was that Lucas sued over BSG using practical models for the special effects and the use of lasers, like he'd been the first to do it in the first place! (Star Trek, Buck Rogers, etc.)
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Well I did. I'll be waiting for them if they want to wrestle me over it. But if they bring a lightsaber it better not be that silly cross guard or I'll smack them silly with my FX Darth Maul lightsaber.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Good for you. And I apologise if anyone has issues with your opinion and attempts to take a 'dump' on it so to speak for not seeing it their way.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
First, To my knowledge neither CBS nor Paramount have ever, nor shown any indication they might ever go after donors. Their beef is with Axanar Productions and its Principal, Alec Peters.
Second, As much as you might like Axanar, and wish it could/would get made (and you are NOT alone on that AT ALL), I can't blame CBS or Paramount for going after Peters. Especially in this case though.
1) Remember that Fan films in general are subject to potential litigation by IP holders. No, most don't face legal action. And yes, Fan films have been a part of Star Trek for a very long time, if not from the beginning. However, that does not change the fact that there is no "Legitimate" fan film. You are using someone else's intellectual property, without their permission. Those are the Facts. That said, CBS has been shown to be very willing to overlook fan films in the past. And as noted in this thread, Even went to bat for Star Trek Continues (a fan film) when You Tube took it down because they felt it violated copyright.
2) Alec Peters has crowdfunded roughly 1.3 mil for "Axanar". By his own admission. Most fan-films are in the order of 10,000 to 60,000. So he raised WAY in excess of what many would consider needed to make a good fan film. The amount alone should have told him it would raise a few eyebrows with CBS/Paramount.
3) His site has also sold merchandise related to Axanar, And (If I remember correctly) other properties, all of which he has no legal right to do.
4) he has used the funds from the "Axanar" crowdfund to pay himself 38k salary, and purchase a Film Studio. Which he himself has said, he would use for profit, for other projects besides just Axanar.
5) Alec Peters has been "working" on Axanar for roughly a year. And it is still in "pre-production". A year and 1.3 million dollars in crowdfunds and he has NOTHING to show for it. Even in Hollywood terms if a project is in Pre-production for a year, with nothing to show for it, it is said to be in "Development Hell" meaning it most likely isn't going to be made. Granted getting a project started in Hollywood should be much harder then doing a fan-film. Which is suppose to be a labor of love.
6) He has consistently changed his story. as to his intent and what he is or isn't planning on doing. Depending on the situation. I can't go over all of them. But this thread has multiple examples where he has said one thing about his intentions, and then later said literally the exact opposite.
How you can look at all this. Again, all detailed in this thread with various sources sited, and still feel Alec Peters is the victim in all this, being bullied by the evil corporations of CBS/Paramount, I do not know. If anyone is the victim(s) here, it is the fans who truely wanted to see this fan-film. I however am more convinced then ever that, with or without CBS/Paramount's lawsuit, it was NEVER going to happen.
Same for the Klingon language; I can show you the copyright statement in every copy, if you'd like. Marc Okrand would also like to be paid for his work, if that's all the same to you.
Terr, if you're what folks have taken to calling a "social justice warrior", please - stop letting the words be perverted like that. Disagreement with your precious ignorance isn't "bullying", nor is attempting to educate you before you embarrass yourself further. Now, if you want to look like you're being willfully ignorant of the facts of this case, feel free - but you needn't expect to see anything like what you might call "respect" in exchange.
And apologise for allowing it to continue.
"Live Long and Prosper"
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
As for people being impatient with you, this incident has hit a lot of people hard. I know there were many people looking forward to Axanar and the initial reaction many had to the lawsuit was to immediately jump to Axanar's defense. However as time has gone on and more information has come to light it looks more and more like mr. Peters was scamming the donors funding Axanar, or at the very least is being dishonest with what he was using the donor funds for and for some insane reason know only to him believed he could get away with it.
The actions of mr. Peters have upset many people who were once staunch supporters of him and Axanar and turned them against him.
No one ever called you an embarrassment, they said you were embarrassing yourself, there is a huge difference between the two statements.
A Canadian calling a basketball hoop a ring is embarrassing.
An orange billionaire is an embarrassment.
Some people would call JJ Trek an embarrassment or calling Star Trek Into Darkness a Star Trek film is embarrassing. Doesn't mean they are right. And I don't care to argue upon it with you.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes