Most of my characters will probably not use it. The one exception being Koth, my TOS themed Klingon "I am Koth of the Vengeance, and this ship is my prize!" Agonizer was actually shown being used by Klingons in the episode of TOS that introduced Kang. One was used on Chekov. Koth frankly will look at it and go "Ranged version? Hell, this sounds interesting." But he's the only one really.
Don't take this the wrong way but, of all the more disturbing things that happen in this game, THIS is the one that bothers you. In the lore the mirror universe always had what's known as agony chambers, portable agonizers and so on. for the mirror universe in game this is nothing new at all and is actually conceivably something that the Terran Empire would have invented at some point. I honestly find it more disturbing that when assimilated by the Borg they use no anesthetics as demonstrated by Voyager and you lose your individuality, than I find this rifle. If it bothers you that much you don't have to use the rifle.
although what you say about the riffle is true, I cant see anyone from the star trek prime universe using such a weapon, sure they might use the beam but never the agony field as such this weapon is only good as half a standard weapon in the hands of a star fleet officer.
its also true that what the borg do to assimilate an individual is even worse but don't forget borg are the quintessential bad guys and bad guys don't play by star fleet rules, star fleet are the good guys and would never forcibly impose their will on another race.
that's why its normal for mirror universe terrans to use agonizer weapons they are after all the bad guys.
I would discard this item rather then equip any of my characters or their boffs with it.
when copying technology from alien races I believe that any weapon that inflicts unnecessary suffering like this would never be allowed, after all star fleet never starts a conflict they only use weapons for defence, if there is a diplomatic solution they would always use that first and foremost.
I don't even believe that Klingons or romulans would use such a weapon they would think anyone who did use it without honour.
even cardasians would shun it.
I would also remind you that there are various settings you can place a weapon on in the star trek lore. Several times in the show we see the crews adjusting the power level of the phasers they're using, anywhere from stun, heavy stun, to kill. The same could be said from a lore standpoint with the agonizer rifles.
The point of the mirror universe is it's like looking into a mirror. So for someone such as Leeta who is pretty harmless normally and sort of a happy go lucky type of character, mirror Leeta is well, you see. I see no reason why the prime universe starfleet couldn't just adapt a version that holds but kills without all the pain, speaking from a lore standpoint. there's also certain weapons that starfleet keeps on hand in case of various situations happening. one example is the tr-116 rifles. they're designed to work in situations where normal energy weapons can't.
The Klingons yes may consider certain things dishonorable and so on but would not be above using a weapon such as the agonizer rifles. The klingons would simply make it work for them. The romulans could honestly fall on either side of the spectrum but I suspect they would use them if the situation demanded it. This weapon would be used more widely than you think imo. Not all species share the federation's disdain for such weaponry.
though its true that there is no reason why the prime universe starfleet couldn't just adapt a version that holds or even kills without all the pain you can see from the stats that this is not the case.
once the agony field is active it inflicts heavy physical damage unlike a simple force field that holds without causing any damage.
I could believe they might use a standard force field to temporarily incapacitate a foe but I will never believe they would use this.
although some Klingons might not be against causing pain as such they would want an enemy to be free to inflict pain also as there is no glory in a battle that is being fought against a foe who cannot defend themselves, i believe the same is true of romulans.
naturally there will be certain individuals on any side who doesn't always live by this ethos but for the most part it would be abhorrent.
I'm kinda on the fence with cardasians, although they might be not averse to giving pain as a means of torture they would want the subject that is receiving pain to survive with the knowledge that they were broken.
as a means of killing I think even they would not stoop so low as to use this.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
The op is forgetting that the agony beam is not supposed to kill (well, unless the setting is on max) so compared to killing them outright as we often do (with great relish), surely its better to disable them from combat (OP, just headcanon the beam takes them out of the battle as incapacitated and a new opponent takes their place)
If you want a weapon which HOLDS, Stasis relativity pistol is your goto weapon. this agonizer rifle is sick and none of my characters, KDF, Romulan, or Fed will be using it.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I actually RP'd out my main captain getting her agony rifle with some friends. Something along the lines of her pulling it out of a Imperial's hands and killing him with it after seeing it used on her squad, then having it mounted on her wall next to Gauls pistol.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
I actually RP'd out my main captain getting her agony rifle with some friends. Something along the lines of her pulling it out of a Imperial's hands and killing him with it after seeing it used on her squad, then having it mounted on her wall next to Gauls pistol.
I misread that as "gauss pistol" and got excited for a second :<
ktamradio If you are looking for some nice music while playing clicky clicky click!
Not letting any of someone's characters use it!! What do those characters have to say about that? Cryptic is not forcing people to use or not use the gun, however players are forcing their characters to use it or not. Hypocrisy I say, Hypocrisy!!!
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans
Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans
S31 is not Starfleet nor anything else. Them using the weapon is not an argument for or against anything.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans
Sec31 avoids my main captain, after she broke Drake's knee on his own holodeck. She also tends to open fire on the Gestapo uniformed scum whenever she sees them.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
The op is forgetting that the agony beam is not supposed to kill (well, unless the setting is on max) so compared to killing them outright as we often do (with great relish), surely its better to disable them from combat (OP, just headcanon the beam takes them out of the battle as incapacitated and a new opponent takes their place)
Think of it like a taser rifle on steroids
The description of the rifle seems to state that the target still takes damage when inside the agony field - which suggest to me that it's a weapon used to kill people, and it happens to do so while inflicting more pain than others.
It really does not sound like something a Starfleet character would use. I am not so sure about any other faction. The Klingons used pain sticks, after all, though that seemed to have been a lost art after the TNG episode where Worf did his Klingon initiation ritual.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The description of the rifle seems to state that the target still takes damage when inside the agony field - which suggest to me that it's a weapon used to kill people, and it happens to do so while inflicting more pain than others.
It really does not sound like something a Starfleet character would use. I am not so sure about any other faction. The Klingons used pain sticks, after all, though that seemed to have been a lost art after the TNG episode where Worf did his Klingon initiation ritual.
Those weren't weapons though, but part of a ritual. I don't know and highly doubt Klingons would show too much concern about unnecessary pain for their enemies but I assume generally would consider the weapon dishonourable due to the stasis field which renders the target defenseless and thus robs it of a honourable fight. But the majority of Klingons and especially the common footsoldier would use anything to achieve victory and make a name for themselves.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Why would the Klingons care? They seem to have no compunction about executing crew members for incompetence - like what forgetting to restock the toilet paper (nah, that's not a good example), speaking while under cloak, cooking the meat, whatever?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The op is forgetting that the agony beam is not supposed to kill (well, unless the setting is on max) so compared to killing them outright as we often do (with great relish), surely its better to disable them from combat (OP, just headcanon the beam takes them out of the battle as incapacitated and a new opponent takes their place)
Think of it like a taser rifle on steroids
The description of the rifle seems to state that the target still takes damage when inside the agony field - which suggest to me that it's a weapon used to kill people, and it happens to do so while inflicting more pain than others.
It really does not sound like something a Starfleet character would use. I am not so sure about any other faction. The Klingons used pain sticks, after all, though that seemed to have been a lost art after the TNG episode where Worf did his Klingon initiation ritual.
klingon probably not, blood knights hate anything that slows a fight. the more angry romulans would in a heartbeat... hmm I may have to replay cut the cord after I get it.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I would like to point out that it isn't the tool that's evil, it's what it is used for by you.
A tool has no conscience, agreed. But a tool has uses and disadvantages in using it. And what is the use of causing unnecessary pain to somebody? How can this part be used for something "good"?
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I would like to point out that it isn't the tool that's evil, it's what it is used for by you.
A tool has no conscience, agreed. But a tool has uses and disadvantages in using it. And what is the use of causing unnecessary pain to somebody? How can this part be used for something "good"?
breaking enemy resistance faster so there is less lost of life? same reason america used nukes ww II.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Basically if you get hit with the secondary you become immune to damage for X time. The damage done... well... if you use the secondary you'll just be making X longer to kill.
it's more the in game explanation of how it works that is repulsive O_o "after suffering the effects of an Agony field" doesn't really help keeping my lunch in either X_X
I was unable to participate in the Mirror Event because of my main laptop having to go into the shop for (likely) two weeks, so it's a bit of a moot point for me--but I definitely understand your discomfort with the Agony Rifle. I would've taken the dilithium and destroyed the rifle with no regrets. Consider it confiscating and destroying dangerous contraband. You're doing everyone a favor by permanently removing it from circulation.
IMO it's almost if not actually comparable to the Varon-T disruptor in the intent of its manufacturers so I would treat it as such (illegal, to be destroyed).
My Fed-Reman wouldn't use it either. She saw people tortured and was perhaps tortured herself during the part of her life when she was a slave to the Romulans. She would be too sick about using it to consider it.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
they do; the varon-t was banned for exactly that reason
The Federation banned them and there were only five (?) in existence, so it was not a weapon mass produced, but at least MA has no mention of Klingon opinion on the weapon. Do they have a line in that episode?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
they do; the varon-t was banned for exactly that reason
The Federation banned them and there were only five (?) in existence, so it was not a weapon mass produced, but at least MA has no mention of Klingon opinion on the weapon. Do they have a line in that episode?
seems it was just the federation; but honestly, a race of belligerents stopping production of a weapon after only 5 prototypes is telling - i certainly don't think mass production was scrapped due to economics or technical difficulties with the design
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans
S31 is not Starfleet nor anything else. Them using the weapon is not an argument for or against anything.
As S31 is an organization whose authority is derived from the Starfleet Charter, the part is one with the body, so S31 is starfleet, as much as any other part of it from shipworks, to r&d, to the pseudo-military academy in san francisco. It's just the part that some people don't want to acknowledge or exist. So, now that it's established that they're as much starfleet as captain fancypants, then YES there IS and Argument for them using it.
Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans
S31 is not Starfleet nor anything else. Them using the weapon is not an argument for or against anything.
As S31 is an organization whose authority is derived from the Starfleet Charter, the part is one with the body, so S31 is starfleet,
The Earth Starfleet charter. We don't know if that is the same charter as Federation Starfleet. And it seems in fact very unlikely, because if Section 31 is a real part of Federation Starfleet's charter and thus actually sanctioned, than Bashir trapping and killing an agent of Section 31 to sabotage a Section 31 operation would have had serious repercussions, no matter how black ops Sloane was.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
(...) So, now that it's established that they're as much starfleet as captain fancypants, then YES there IS and Argument for them using it.
By my authority I hereby declare that my previous explanation overrules your theory and thus your point is null and void
Seriously, nothing you say can be "established". You have to be very ignorant to the things actually happening on-screen to set S31 (a villian organisation for DS9) and Starfleet on equal footing.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
though its true that there is no reason why the prime universe starfleet couldn't just adapt a version that holds or even kills without all the pain you can see from the stats that this is not the case.
once the agony field is active it inflicts heavy physical damage unlike a simple force field that holds without causing any damage.
I could believe they might use a standard force field to temporarily incapacitate a foe but I will never believe they would use this.
although some Klingons might not be against causing pain as such they would want an enemy to be free to inflict pain also as there is no glory in a battle that is being fought against a foe who cannot defend themselves, i believe the same is true of romulans.
naturally there will be certain individuals on any side who doesn't always live by this ethos but for the most part it would be abhorrent.
I'm kinda on the fence with cardasians, although they might be not averse to giving pain as a means of torture they would want the subject that is receiving pain to survive with the knowledge that they were broken.
as a means of killing I think even they would not stoop so low as to use this.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
Think of it like a taser rifle on steroids
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"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
See? Isnt that simple then trying to get rid of something thats part of Trek lore?
I misread that as "gauss pistol" and got excited for a second :<
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
S31 is not Starfleet nor anything else. Them using the weapon is not an argument for or against anything.
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Sec31 avoids my main captain, after she broke Drake's knee on his own holodeck. She also tends to open fire on the Gestapo uniformed scum whenever she sees them.
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
It really does not sound like something a Starfleet character would use. I am not so sure about any other faction. The Klingons used pain sticks, after all, though that seemed to have been a lost art after the TNG episode where Worf did his Klingon initiation ritual.
Those weren't weapons though, but part of a ritual. I don't know and highly doubt Klingons would show too much concern about unnecessary pain for their enemies but I assume generally would consider the weapon dishonourable due to the stasis field which renders the target defenseless and thus robs it of a honourable fight. But the majority of Klingons and especially the common footsoldier would use anything to achieve victory and make a name for themselves.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
klingon probably not, blood knights hate anything that slows a fight. the more angry romulans would in a heartbeat... hmm I may have to replay cut the cord after I get it.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
they do; the varon-t was banned for exactly that reason
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
A tool has no conscience, agreed. But a tool has uses and disadvantages in using it. And what is the use of causing unnecessary pain to somebody? How can this part be used for something "good"?
breaking enemy resistance faster so there is less lost of life? same reason america used nukes ww II.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I was unable to participate in the Mirror Event because of my main laptop having to go into the shop for (likely) two weeks, so it's a bit of a moot point for me--but I definitely understand your discomfort with the Agony Rifle. I would've taken the dilithium and destroyed the rifle with no regrets. Consider it confiscating and destroying dangerous contraband. You're doing everyone a favor by permanently removing it from circulation.
IMO it's almost if not actually comparable to the Varon-T disruptor in the intent of its manufacturers so I would treat it as such (illegal, to be destroyed).
My Fed-Reman wouldn't use it either. She saw people tortured and was perhaps tortured herself during the part of her life when she was a slave to the Romulans. She would be too sick about using it to consider it.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
The Federation banned them and there were only five (?) in existence, so it was not a weapon mass produced, but at least MA has no mention of Klingon opinion on the weapon. Do they have a line in that episode?
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seems it was just the federation; but honestly, a race of belligerents stopping production of a weapon after only 5 prototypes is telling - i certainly don't think mass production was scrapped due to economics or technical difficulties with the design
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
As S31 is an organization whose authority is derived from the Starfleet Charter, the part is one with the body, so S31 is starfleet, as much as any other part of it from shipworks, to r&d, to the pseudo-military academy in san francisco. It's just the part that some people don't want to acknowledge or exist. So, now that it's established that they're as much starfleet as captain fancypants, then YES there IS and Argument for them using it.
By my authority I hereby declare that my previous explanation overrules your theory and thus your point is null and void
Seriously, nothing you say can be "established". You have to be very ignorant to the things actually happening on-screen to set S31 (a villian organisation for DS9) and Starfleet on equal footing.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!