the TRIBBLE thing went completely unnoticed by myself. maybe because, as an australian, 'mate' registers differently, or maybe i am just thick, or maybe i am more enlightened than i realise.
as a proud warrior of the kdf i didnt understand why it was assumed i had no cloaking ability of my own, or needed help to understand units measure.
as a dahar master i dont understand why i was so demure when confronted by an abrasive underling that actually called me a petaq!
and considering i literally went to hell and back for a shard of kahless, i find it pretty shocking that i so easily left the actual sword of kahless behind and beamed up like a coward.
today is a good day to- zomg hurry and beam me up!
geko was really talking up how this mission would be told from the kdf perspective, but (unsurprisingly) it felt very fedcentric. how is that even possible? cyrptic seem to do it pretty predictably.
Can I hug you for that perfectly expressed explanation about what is wrong with the flaming and reminding people to be nice to each other? :O
ktamradio If you are looking for some nice music while playing clicky clicky click!
The backstory hinted for HoP was excellent and complimentary to the series. It was believable and frankly 'way cool'.
The environment of the Iconian base was VERY COOL.
The forced trope of the historical leader fighting a valiant yet hopeless fight against an unstoppable enemy - meh - still worked. Then again so do space TRIBBLE and iotian mobsters. This is Star Trek afterall.
ahh so that how it works, thank you, btw didn't you think that mates reaction was odd? doesn't she understand what happens if omega molecules start a chain reaction?
To be honest, the mission did feel more like it would have been suited to Romulans. The whole 'Klingon undercover' just didn't feel quite right. Plus as you say, the fact that she seemed to prefer the risk of vaporization to the risk of being discovered and actually having to fight was a bit un-Klingon.
Though I still did enjoy it for the most part. Except for the emergency beam out at the end, to hell with the scared Klingons, I wanted to fight my way out!
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
i dont post much but i do have to say i was a little shocked when i played the episode, see them as a couple did upset me a little because i do enjoy the game , and seeing something i dont agree with forced into a game i like took me back a little. but i will continue to play and continue to pay but if more political issue start to move into the game i may have to reconsider .
i dont post much but i do have to say i was a little shocked when i played the episode, see them as a couple did upset me a little because i do enjoy the game , and seeing something i dont agree with forced into a game i like took me back a little. but i will continue to play and continue to pay but if more political issue start to move into the game i may have to reconsider .
Your comment was valid, but as with anything that's changing in our culture, there's often no easy way to discuss it without violating someones boundaries.
I agree with those who thought the episode was short. It was a bit brief for a feature episode. I also had a problem with the couple in question. The reason I didn't like it is because it felt tacked on to the episode in order to be pc.It would have worked better if there had been time to examine, explore, and flesh out the relationship and in turn its relationship to a militaristic culture.
You took a great thread and turned it into a warring political discussion. I'm perfectly happy for political discussions, but not ones with the volatility and disrespect I'm seeing. Hell, I'm even going through posts about TRIBBLE Germany! And for what? A difference for opinion displayed in what is very, very unfortunately a horrendous way (on both accounts even).
There is political necessity and the values that we find in our civil liberties. When we defend them, we are defending ourselves. But too often do we flat out go on the attack. Don't like the fact that you thought the TRIBBLE couple was placed in awkwardly to you? Say that. Are you happy that you saw a progressive inclusion of marganilized groups? Say that!
But don't flame each other for it. If you're unhappy with someone or something and cannot constructively express it, then take some to cool down before you post. This applies to both sides of the parties.
Now listen up.
If you are unhappy about the lesbians then you should explain why in a constructive manner. Be civil and be respectful. It's in the ToS. It's really not hard to do. If you find people are getting upset and arguing with you a lot, re-examine your posts.
If you are unhappy about others being unhappy about the lesbians, you can disagree but be civil and respectful. I'm bisexual myself, and even I'm appalled at the manner people here are treating those who disagree with the episode and/or LGBT folks. Do you think calling someone a bigot is going to suddenly make them decide :
"You know what? I'm going to rethink my stance on this considering you just publically called me that!"
God no! It furthers a divide and shuts down the conversation by creating an even greater rift between you. It awards you no points other than venting at their expense. It doesn't help make progressive momentum. It creates an 'Us' vs 'Them'. The only way to bridge that divide is with some god damn compassion.
Seriously. I'm going to unleash the hammer if this doesn't knock off. Please. Impress me and show civility and kindness to each other.
You opened up yourself, allowed things to become personal, for a goal of civility and community. I applaud you Trendy!
I agree with those who thought the episode was short. It was a bit brief for a feature episodes. I also had a problem with the couple in question. The reason I didn't like it is because it felt tacked on to the episode. I would have enjoyed more time to get to know the couple and explore what it means to be a same gender couple in what seems to be a very militaristic culture (although I know that Spartan men were often lovers). It would have been better character development than an off hand remark.
To be honest, I wouldn't. Not in this instance. It was a briefing for a top secret military offensive, not a get to know the team over drinks mission. I felt it was done right. It was an off hand comment that was easily ignored, but did include that minority.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that there is some kind of representation of that, but not at the start of the mission. Maybe at the end, you beam back on board the Klingon ship and can explore all that stuff then when things have cooled off. And you can also question some of the other members of the House, so it blends in more of a 'Get to know these people' rather than "HEY LOOK! WE'RE PROGRESSIVE!"
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A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
i dont post much but i do have to say i was a little shocked when i played the episode, see them as a couple did upset me a little because i do enjoy the game , and seeing something i dont agree with forced into a game i like took me back a little. but i will continue to play and continue to pay but if more political issue start to move into the game i may have to reconsider .
You see though, it's not JUST a political issue. It's a daily fact of life for millions and millions of people. So while there may be a potential for a political aspect for the inclusion of this couple, their addition is also a quality of life improvement if you think about it.
In the real world, there are same sex couples, and you will encounter them. They are doing their own thing, and you can do yours. Gene always wanted to show ***** characters on the shows, but the network censors shot it down. So by including characters like this into the game, an element of reality and realism is added, as well as honoring the wishes of the creator of this entire fake universe. So like it or not, it makes the game more true, both to life, and to original creative intent.
In regards to couples going to a fight, I would want to bring up one thing. I remember a certain Klingon war ballad recited by Quark about a couple who were heavily engaged in combat. I wouldn't say it was unbecoming of Klingons to embrace war and their relationship.
Now, as for them being TRIBBLE. With the lack of representation you usually see of it in video games, I know it might come across as a big play up. I actually... missed it the first time. Probably because I was very tired, but I would argue that in that case it wasn't really unnaturally portrayed. It just so happens this couple was TRIBBLE.
Maybe if we treat it as that we'll start to give the LGBT crowd what I feel they deserve, a sense of normalcy. I'm happy that they're represented. Let's consider this a normal set of Klingon warriors who embrace honor, war, and each other?
Thank you, Trendy. That's exactly how I took it as well. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Fun fact: B'rel (or whatever her name is) has been on Ganalda Station for years and in one of her dialogues says something to the effect of "You sound just like my mate; she's always worrying about me..."
This isn't "shoving it in." It's been part of the character for five years.
I would just like to say thanks to the team for putting this up and progressing the story, but I have to say as a player I did NOT enjoy it.
I don't know if it was still bugged or not but I had opponents materialize half way in walls allowing them to shoot me but I couldn't shoot back, 3/4 of the time the klingons may as well have not been there because they did nothing, and the final space battles I spent more time just trying to stay alive than actually attacking and in the end found it faster to die and respawn, that is of course if my weapons were online in order to do anything with them in the first place.
Way to many probes and gateways just being spammed as well as ships that healed themselves faster than I could do dammage. Quite frankly I felt I was trying to solo Cure Found not a feature episode!
I'll be blunt, but sexual preferences should be kept out of the game.
What people do in RP or in their fleet is their choice, but things like this bit of trash (not because of a dislike towards LGBT but because of its place in the game) should be kept out of general content of the game.
This game is supposed to be for all ages and anything sexual should be not have made it into the game.
I played through the new FE to see what all the hulla baloo was all about and was quite frankly disgusted and saddened.
LGBT themes or there of have no place in games or anywhere else to be honest.
I fully expect to be belittled by so called tolerants, but it has to be said.
This was a bad move on the part of the writers and devs and they should be ashamed.
As I have said in a direct e-mail to the company, I will not spend a dime on this game over this nor will I ever support them or PWE unless they re-verse this move and leave such things out moving forward.
I don't recall the other times this theme has showed up in the other parts of the game to be honest, but the point still stands.
This is a game all ages play, shame......
Edit..........
To clarify theme... It soley is just for general speaking terms, don't take it too literal.
It's simply saying cases where the writers felt it necessary to include, mention, and etc.
An encompassing term to mean all the mentioned above examples.
I should of gotten that written from the get go, but what can ya do.
The overall point still stands as I have said in the above original statement.
I know that some might be in the minority view but why the innuendo within a virtual MMO? If I watch TV and there's something questionable I can always change the channel. What would you want some of us to do here? swallow it and pretend it's innocent innuendo...come on. This should not have ANY place in an MMO or at least put some ADULT references/disclaimer to it.
After all.. is this Second Life or Tera?
For one thing they won't let players wear bikinis/exotic outfits outside RISA...due to the morality policing. However, it is OK with these innuendos to play the diversity card. You can't have it both ways and still be politically correct.
Enough is enough and respectfully agree with Questerius on this one.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that there is some kind of representation of that, but not at the start of the mission. Maybe at the end, you beam back on board the Klingon ship and can explore all that stuff then when things have cooled off. And you can also question some of the other members of the House, so it blends in more of a 'Get to know these people' rather than "HEY LOOK! WE'RE PROGRESSIVE!"
EXACTLY!!! Homosexuality (or non-heterosexuality to be more accurate) is a very passionate topic and I can respect the writer wanting to address that topic.
But... they way it was done was just so bad. The overall storytelling has been pretty weak but this really makes me want to just stick to the queues or skip all the dialog, and the main reason I play this game is for the story!
Those characters had no meaning, I wasn't invested in them, they were supposed to be an elite group of covert Klingon operatives. Ignoring their orientation, how did that brief exchange where we learned of their relationship status have any impact on the plot of the story? It was completely extraneous to the story and there for... what? To cause drama with the players? Get people talking about homosexuality? Make me somehow become emotionally invested in them because they are TRIBBLE? And really, "covert" Klingons? That's just weird.. Klingons are anything but subtle and the weak justification for it didn't fly with me. This totally should have been a Romulan-centric mission.
Personally... I found the whole "grumpy TRIBBLE" character to be infuriatingly offensive. I'm sorry but the stereotype that TRIBBLE couples are comprised of one woman and one angry man-hating woman who wishes she was a man is worse than the opinions that "homosexuality is a sin". UGH!! I have no problem respecting a person's beliefs even when I disagree but I can't respect trying to perpetuate stereotypes.
On top of that, there's no way that Klingon Captain would not have executed that officer immediately for being rude and disrespectful to my character, who in his eyes was a decorated, honorable war hero that completely out ranked her. And really... what woman wants to be with someone who is that overbearing, and a Klingon woman no less! I'm guessing she certainly did not NEED that overbearing, i mean "over protective" grumpy woman saving her from some questions related to her area of expertise.
Please... focus more on character development... focus more on plots that don't make make our characters and NPC leaders appear to be incompetent losers... I don't know but above all please don't try to tackle any more "hot button" issues through story telling unless it somehow furthers the plot of the story. It's as great a fail as not blowing up the station, leaving the friggin Sword of Kahless with the Iconians and simply standing by watching Kahless get killed...
I havent read the whole thread (sorry for that), but i'm a bit surprised that the "same sex" couple is such a big deal for some people.
Star Trek always was about tangenting cultural issues (well at least a bit.), so i don't quite understand. What's the big deal about it?
People should expect things like that from Star Trek.
Sure some people just want to see war, killing, shooting and destroying worlds, but a same sex couple is what bothers them... :rolleyes:
I don't want to go into details, but Star Trek never was all about Starships fighting or fighting wars, it was a mirror to OUR society first and foremost.
Frankly, i'm really disappointed a bit by some reactions, and even more disappointed that this spirit has been forgotten by some "fans".
Because if there's anything to learn from Star Trek, then it is how to live with each other in peace without choking each others throat.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the TRIBBLE thing went completely unnoticed by myself. maybe because, as an australian, 'mate' registers differently, or maybe i am just thick, or maybe i am more enlightened than i realise.
as a proud warrior of the kdf i didnt understand why it was assumed i had no cloaking ability of my own, or needed help to understand units measure.
as a dahar master i dont understand why i was so demure when confronted by an abrasive underling that actually called me a petaq!
and considering i literally went to hell and back for a shard of kahless, i find it pretty shocking that i so easily left the actual sword of kahless behind and beamed up like a coward.
today is a good day to- zomg hurry and beam me up!
geko was really talking up how this mission would be told from the kdf perspective, but (unsurprisingly) it felt very fedcentric. how is that even possible? cyrptic seem to do it pretty predictably.
HA, I thought the petaq comment was just because I was Fed. I'll have to replay as KDF.
Excuse me but am I playing the same episode as some people?
I get to interact with a grumpy, over-protective lady who probably doesn't like me because I'm in Starfleet and I want to change mission parameters that could endanger the whole team even more, with me just meeting them for the first time and already slightly bossing them around. And this lady just happens to be in a relationship with another lady.
But according to others, the lady they saw is like an offensive homosexual stereotype who rubs her sexuality all over the place and the reason she's hostile is because of that.
What am I missing?
I know that some might be in the minority view but why the innuendo within a virtual MMO? If I watch TV and there's something questionable I can always change the channel. What would you want some of us to do here? swallow it and pretend it's innocent innuendo...come on. This should not have ANY place in an MMO or at least put some ADULT references/disclaimer to it.
How can portraying a couple who happens to be TRIBBLE even be considered an innuendo? That's not what an innuendo even is!
Personally... I found the whole "grumpy TRIBBLE" character to be infuriatingly offensive. I'm sorry but the stereotype that TRIBBLE couples are comprised of one woman and one angry man-hating woman who wishes she was a man is worse than the opinions that "homosexuality is a sin". UGH!! I have no problem respecting a person's beliefs even when I disagree but I can't respect trying to perpetuate stereotypes.
To that i have to agree, it was a bit too much of a stereotype.
On top of that, there's no way that Klingon Captain would not have executed that officer immediately for being rude and disrespectful to my character, who in his eyes was a decorated, honorable war hero that completely out ranked her.
Yeah i found her bahavior disrespectful too.
Maybe i have misread but did she say "petaQ" at the end?
Even the most peaceful Starfleet officer HAD to react, in order not to look like a fool to anyone else in the room!
It's the same thing as if the positions where reversed and a Starfleet officer would say "moron" to Kahless and no one would react...
Please... focus more on character development... focus more on plots that don't make make our characters and NPC leaders appear to be incompetent losers... I don't know but above all please don't try to tackle any more "hot button" issues through story telling unless it somehow furthers the plot of the story. It's as great a fail as not blowing up the station, leaving the friggin Sword of Kahless with the Iconians and simply standing by watching Kahless get killed...
agreed the mission was a utter failure.
What bothers me the most, is that we didn't get ANY choice whatsoever to influence the missions outcome.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You took a great thread and turned it into a warring political discussion. I'm perfectly happy for political discussions, but not ones with the volatility and disrespect I'm seeing. Hell, I'm even going through posts about TRIBBLE Germany! And for what? A difference for opinion displayed in what is very, very unfortunately a horrendous way (on both accounts even).
There is political necessity and the values that we find in our civil liberties. When we defend them, we are defending ourselves. But too often do we flat out go on the attack. Don't like the fact that you thought the TRIBBLE couple was placed in awkwardly to you? Say that. Are you happy that you saw a progressive inclusion of marganilized groups? Say that!
But don't flame each other for it. If you're unhappy with someone or something and cannot constructively express it, then take some to cool down before you post. This applies to both sides of the parties.
Now listen up.
If you are unhappy about the lesbians then you should explain why in a constructive manner. Be civil and be respectful. It's in the ToS. It's really not hard to do. If you find people are getting upset and arguing with you a lot, re-examine your posts.
If you are unhappy about others being unhappy about the lesbians, you can disagree but be civil and respectful. I'm bisexual myself, and even I'm appalled at the manner people here are treating those who disagree with the episode and/or LGBT folks. Do you think calling someone a bigot is going to suddenly make them decide :
"You know what? I'm going to rethink my stance on this considering you just publically called me that!"
God no! It furthers a divide and shuts down the conversation by creating an even greater rift between you. It awards you no points other than venting at their expense. It doesn't help make progressive momentum. It creates an 'Us' vs 'Them'. The only way to bridge that divide is with some god damn compassion.
Seriously. I'm going to unleash the hammer if this doesn't knock off. Please. Impress me and show civility and kindness to each other.
from my end i got no problem with people who have a different sexual oreintation, ethnic issues or anything like that. people are allowed to be left alone to follow their own path. people are allowed to follow their own heart for love and the way i always see it; love is where you find it. however it is not my business to know what others choose, that is their choice and conseqnetly their responsibility how ever it goes. none the less i still wish them luck for their future.
for me i see scotland locked into the uk now, i am english, born and raised and i want to see scotland free. in the usa, the black rights movement gained huge strides for freedom for all black people, now they have it for almost the most part, and i am fully supportive of this process to see these ethnic issues solved and for there to be true equality. ireland has passed some political bill recently allowing TRIBBLE marriages and i welcome it, because people have that right to be happy and free to choose. women in the workplace, in motorsports and other things of high visibility, i have no problem with women becoming the big star that is usually male dominated either.
unfortunately trendy there are some issues that will become warzones from it and it will bring in religious discussions on the subject of bisexual discussions. that is where this will likely go next as its a fertile ground for the next point.
the world is not fully embraced the idea of bisexual outings, thats just a fact at this point regardless and on one hand this thread should be kept open regardless because star trek is always been about tough social and political changes, some of which has transformed the society of this this world and if cryptic can change society with a simple game and two characters.. wow, that would be something.
but on the other end it will probably get a lot worse.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Over all I liked the mission, though I found it funny when "he" said "An honorable warrior is always victorious" after we interfered with a 1 on 1 fight, doesn't seem very honorable to me :P
Sad that he's dead though. Also not sure why but I found the idea of a TRIBBLE Klingon couple amusing :P
I also find it funny how they tell us to stay tuned until next week to find out what the trait is going to be when anyone with a brain can look at this weeks and the name of next weeks and figure out what it does.
If you read the Romulan War novels (can't remember which one) you will find that this is not the first time that a Klingon same sex couple was mentioned. The infamous Admiral Krell was mated to his male doctor.
There's one really positive thing about that episode i want to mention.
Ramir is much less of an dislikeable A$$ as Franklin Drake.
In fact i found Ramir one of the more positve displayed Klingons in STO. He was professional and not a loudmouthed bragger like 95% of Klingons we encounter. (especially Capt. Koren :mad: :mad: :mad:) @devs: Please give us more characters like him!
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Excuse me but am I playing the same episode as some people?
I get to interact with a grumpy, over-protective lady who probably doesn't like me because I'm in Starfleet and I want to change mission parameters that could endanger the whole team even more, with me just meeting them for the first time and already slightly bossing them around. And this lady just happens to be in a relationship with another lady.
But according to others, the lady they saw is like an offensive homosexual stereotype who rubs her sexuality all over the place and the reason she's hostile is because of that.
What am I missing?
How can portraying a couple who happens to be TRIBBLE even be considered an innuendo? That's not what an innuendo even is!
what she didn't get is that by changing the mission parameters to reduce the chance of a cataclysmic reaction to zero the chance of her mate making it out alive and not be vaporized by omega exploding isn't exactly "endangering" her but rather improving her safety even if they get caught and have to fight their way out at least they have a CHANCE rather them FWOMP *gone*
ktamradio If you are looking for some nice music while playing clicky clicky click!
To that i have to agree, it was a bit too much of a stereotype.
I agree, a I have somewhere earlier in the thread. I don't know why so many people think there has to be a "dom" and a "sub" in a relationship. However:
Yeah i found her bahavior disrespectful too.
Maybe i have misread but did she say "petaQ" at the end?
Even the most peaceful Starfleet officer HAD to react, in order not to look like a fool to anyone else in the room!
It's the same thing as if the positions where reversed and a Starfleet officer would say "moron" to Kahless and no one would react...
Does this make sense?
I liked that bit. It was clear that she got upset because she saw her wife in danger and she is a Klingon with an attitude, after all. Standing inf or her wife in that way that she goes so far as openly disagreeing and even willing to pick a fight with a superior officer did, in fact, deeply impress my Klingon captain. That takes courage. And that is something a Klingon can respect just as well. It's not that she called you a petaQ in front of your assembled crew, it was amongst the Pegh crew which are warriors but seem to operate under a loose protocol. My Klingon at least would have given her a smirk and a nod - encouraging her to not do it again, but respecting her attitude in the given situation. He's not an emotionless robot wanting to kill because someone "insults his honor".
agreed the mission was a utter failure.
What bothers me the most, is that we didn't get ANY choice whatsoever to influence the missions outcome.
Here, however, I agree again. I just don't undertand what the point of the mission was, why Khaless had to be there - why why why? There are so many huge holes in that plot...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Fun fact: B'rel (or whatever her name is) has been on Ganalda Station for years and in one of her dialogues says something to the effect of "You sound just like my mate; she's always worrying about me..."
This isn't "shoving it in." It's been part of the character for five years.
that's different situation though, isn't it? that was on a space station, doing dull, menial tasks where some chatting and fraternizing may happen out of boredom.
a military briefing is a professional, matter-of-fact meeting where only important info related to the mission's goal is discussed, and people don't normally behave like jealous adolescent teenagers during those just because someone talked to another person.
there's time for that after the mission success/failure and after debriefing, possibly before a final beam out, when there's no more urgency.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
I'm going to say that I am a little disappointed by the House Pegh storyline. I've only played it part way through so far, so I can't comment on everything. I may have more comments later.
SPOILERS FOLLOW!!!!
What should have been a moving story about the sacrifice one man makes to stand against evil and save others was turned into a politically correct/incorrect sideshow. I do not support that or agree with it.
I mean, you have freaking Kahless himself being killed by the Iconians and the Sword of Kahless lost in an Iconian base. It's a tragedy! Very dramatic storytelling! But it ends up being about a TRIBBLE couple in the forums.
I can admire devotion and affection for another person, regardless of gender. It doesn't have to be about sex. It didn't have to be about sex here, and would have played just as well without using the word 'mate'. It's a word with a very specific meaning in a specific biological context.
I feel that in their attempt to be politically correct, Cryptic not only invited controversy they also distracted and detracted from the story they were trying to tell. The death of Kahless at the hands of the Iconians.
I feel they also showed a lack of respect for the fact that the game is played by children as well as adults (rated T!) and this was an inappropriate subject to casually toss in.
I will say that it was at least not extremely overt and many children will miss it (as some of the adults did). But I feel parents have the right to be aware when things like this are brought up in a game context and not be blindsided by them. I am previewing the episode and have a chance to be a responsible parent to my teenage sons who play STO and have a discussion about it. If Cryptic wants to set this as a precedent and abuse my trust in their discretion, then I either need to preview every single episode before my sons get a chance to play it or I need to prevent them from playing at all. Either way, Cryptic, do you really want people preventing their kids from logging in at convenient times?
There was one other thing that bothered me about the story and it had nothing to do with the subject of mates. The fact that a character gets away with calling a Dahar Master a petaQ and I don't get to knock them on their butts or threaten to kill them for it like a good Klingon would have done, that was very unsatisfying.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
There's one really positive thing about that episode i want to mention.
Ramir is much less of an dislikeable A$$ as Franklin Drake.
In fact i found Ramir one of the more positve displayed Klingons in STO. He was professional and not a loudmouthed bragger like 95% of Klingons we encounter. (especially Capt. Koren :mad: :mad: :mad:) @devs: Please give us more characters like him!
Hey, I liked Drake. He's an TRIBBLE, yes but I like him. Did like Ramir as well.
what she didn't get is that by changing the mission parameters to reduce the chance of a cataclysmic reaction to zero the chance of her mate making it out alive and not be vaporized by omega exploding isn't exactly "endangering" her but rather improving her safety even if they get caught and have to fight their way out at least they have a CHANCE rather them FWOMP *gone*
Especially since how quickly Ramir NOPE'd us the hell outta here.
This should not have ANY place in an MMO or at least put some ADULT references/disclaimer to it.
ESRB: Content Descriptors: Fantasy Violence, Mild Suggestive Themes
Ignoring that, a game where there's constant violence up to and including completely disintegrating people and killing up to thousands of people every time you blow up a space ship is fine and dandy but acknowledging that two people are a couple is not?
Now I know some of you are thinking, "But...but...the couple's the same sex!"
Ignoring that, a game where there's constant violence up to and including completely disintegrating people and killing up to thousands of people every time you blow up a space ship is fine and dandy but acknowledging that two people are a couple is not?
Now I know some of you are thinking, "But...but...the couple's the same sex!"
My rebuttal, "So?"
Funny that. Hack up thousands of people with a sword, vaporize thousands more, condemn tens of thousands to horrific death by asphyxiation? Including at points literally sucking people out an airlock?
Fine for the kids!
But two alien ladies are mentioned once to be a couple and nothing is really made of it. It's just part of their character. But then it's "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"
I feel that in their attempt to be politically correct, Cryptic not only invited controversy they also distracted and detracted from the story they were trying to tell. The death of Kahless at the hands of the Iconians.
I feel they also showed a lack of respect for the fact that the game is played by children as well as adults (rated T!) and this was an inappropriate subject to casually toss in.
I will say that it was at least not extremely overt and many children will miss it (as some of the adults did). But I feel parents have the right to be aware when things like this are brought up in a game context and not be blindsided by them. I am previewing the episode and have a chance to be a responsible parent to my teenage sons who play STO and have a discussion about it. If Cryptic wants to set this as a precedent and abuse my trust in their discretion, then I either need to preview every single episode before my sons get a chance to play it or I need to prevent them from playing at all. Either way, Cryptic, do you really want people preventing their kids from logging in at convenient times?
So, someone being electrocuted, losing an arm while screaming in agony, having this butchered remaining of arm shown, having someone stabbed from behind and gruesomely disintegrated, dramatically dropping a precious artefact as he dies, etc... is OK to show to children...
But... a TRIBBLE couple who doesn't partake in any sexual innuendos or more, merely having one being grumpy is inappropriate for them?
Comments
Can I hug you for that perfectly expressed explanation about what is wrong with the flaming and reminding people to be nice to each other? :O
The backstory hinted for HoP was excellent and complimentary to the series. It was believable and frankly 'way cool'.
The environment of the Iconian base was VERY COOL.
The forced trope of the historical leader fighting a valiant yet hopeless fight against an unstoppable enemy - meh - still worked. Then again so do space TRIBBLE and iotian mobsters. This is Star Trek afterall.
Overall I thought the episode to be quite short
My Two Bits
Admiral Thrax.
To be honest, the mission did feel more like it would have been suited to Romulans. The whole 'Klingon undercover' just didn't feel quite right. Plus as you say, the fact that she seemed to prefer the risk of vaporization to the risk of being discovered and actually having to fight was a bit un-Klingon.
Though I still did enjoy it for the most part. Except for the emergency beam out at the end, to hell with the scared Klingons, I wanted to fight my way out!
Your comment was valid, but as with anything that's changing in our culture, there's often no easy way to discuss it without violating someones boundaries.
You opened up yourself, allowed things to become personal, for a goal of civility and community. I applaud you Trendy!
To be honest, I wouldn't. Not in this instance. It was a briefing for a top secret military offensive, not a get to know the team over drinks mission. I felt it was done right. It was an off hand comment that was easily ignored, but did include that minority.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that there is some kind of representation of that, but not at the start of the mission. Maybe at the end, you beam back on board the Klingon ship and can explore all that stuff then when things have cooled off. And you can also question some of the other members of the House, so it blends in more of a 'Get to know these people' rather than "HEY LOOK! WE'RE PROGRESSIVE!"
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
You see though, it's not JUST a political issue. It's a daily fact of life for millions and millions of people. So while there may be a potential for a political aspect for the inclusion of this couple, their addition is also a quality of life improvement if you think about it.
In the real world, there are same sex couples, and you will encounter them. They are doing their own thing, and you can do yours. Gene always wanted to show ***** characters on the shows, but the network censors shot it down. So by including characters like this into the game, an element of reality and realism is added, as well as honoring the wishes of the creator of this entire fake universe. So like it or not, it makes the game more true, both to life, and to original creative intent.
Thank you, Trendy. That's exactly how I took it as well. Nothing out of the ordinary.
This isn't "shoving it in." It's been part of the character for five years.
I don't know if it was still bugged or not but I had opponents materialize half way in walls allowing them to shoot me but I couldn't shoot back, 3/4 of the time the klingons may as well have not been there because they did nothing, and the final space battles I spent more time just trying to stay alive than actually attacking and in the end found it faster to die and respawn, that is of course if my weapons were online in order to do anything with them in the first place.
Way to many probes and gateways just being spammed as well as ships that healed themselves faster than I could do dammage. Quite frankly I felt I was trying to solo Cure Found not a feature episode!
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I know that some might be in the minority view but why the innuendo within a virtual MMO? If I watch TV and there's something questionable I can always change the channel. What would you want some of us to do here? swallow it and pretend it's innocent innuendo...come on. This should not have ANY place in an MMO or at least put some ADULT references/disclaimer to it.
After all.. is this Second Life or Tera?
For one thing they won't let players wear bikinis/exotic outfits outside RISA...due to the morality policing. However, it is OK with these innuendos to play the diversity card. You can't have it both ways and still be politically correct.
Enough is enough and respectfully agree with Questerius on this one.
EXACTLY!!! Homosexuality (or non-heterosexuality to be more accurate) is a very passionate topic and I can respect the writer wanting to address that topic.
But... they way it was done was just so bad. The overall storytelling has been pretty weak but this really makes me want to just stick to the queues or skip all the dialog, and the main reason I play this game is for the story!
Those characters had no meaning, I wasn't invested in them, they were supposed to be an elite group of covert Klingon operatives. Ignoring their orientation, how did that brief exchange where we learned of their relationship status have any impact on the plot of the story? It was completely extraneous to the story and there for... what? To cause drama with the players? Get people talking about homosexuality? Make me somehow become emotionally invested in them because they are TRIBBLE? And really, "covert" Klingons? That's just weird.. Klingons are anything but subtle and the weak justification for it didn't fly with me. This totally should have been a Romulan-centric mission.
Personally... I found the whole "grumpy TRIBBLE" character to be infuriatingly offensive. I'm sorry but the stereotype that TRIBBLE couples are comprised of one woman and one angry man-hating woman who wishes she was a man is worse than the opinions that "homosexuality is a sin". UGH!! I have no problem respecting a person's beliefs even when I disagree but I can't respect trying to perpetuate stereotypes.
On top of that, there's no way that Klingon Captain would not have executed that officer immediately for being rude and disrespectful to my character, who in his eyes was a decorated, honorable war hero that completely out ranked her. And really... what woman wants to be with someone who is that overbearing, and a Klingon woman no less! I'm guessing she certainly did not NEED that overbearing, i mean "over protective" grumpy woman saving her from some questions related to her area of expertise.
Please... focus more on character development... focus more on plots that don't make make our characters and NPC leaders appear to be incompetent losers... I don't know but above all please don't try to tackle any more "hot button" issues through story telling unless it somehow furthers the plot of the story. It's as great a fail as not blowing up the station, leaving the friggin Sword of Kahless with the Iconians and simply standing by watching Kahless get killed...
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
Star Trek always was about tangenting cultural issues (well at least a bit.), so i don't quite understand. What's the big deal about it?
People should expect things like that from Star Trek.
Sure some people just want to see war, killing, shooting and destroying worlds, but a same sex couple is what bothers them... :rolleyes:
I don't want to go into details, but Star Trek never was all about Starships fighting or fighting wars, it was a mirror to OUR society first and foremost.
Frankly, i'm really disappointed a bit by some reactions, and even more disappointed that this spirit has been forgotten by some "fans".
Because if there's anything to learn from Star Trek, then it is how to live with each other in peace without choking each others throat.
LLAP @all
HA, I thought the petaq comment was just because I was Fed. I'll have to replay as KDF.
I get to interact with a grumpy, over-protective lady who probably doesn't like me because I'm in Starfleet and I want to change mission parameters that could endanger the whole team even more, with me just meeting them for the first time and already slightly bossing them around. And this lady just happens to be in a relationship with another lady.
But according to others, the lady they saw is like an offensive homosexual stereotype who rubs her sexuality all over the place and the reason she's hostile is because of that.
What am I missing?
How can portraying a couple who happens to be TRIBBLE even be considered an innuendo? That's not what an innuendo even is!
Yeah i found her bahavior disrespectful too.
Maybe i have misread but did she say "petaQ" at the end?
Even the most peaceful Starfleet officer HAD to react, in order not to look like a fool to anyone else in the room!
It's the same thing as if the positions where reversed and a Starfleet officer would say "moron" to Kahless and no one would react...
Does this make sense?
agreed the mission was a utter failure.
What bothers me the most, is that we didn't get ANY choice whatsoever to influence the missions outcome.
from my end i got no problem with people who have a different sexual oreintation, ethnic issues or anything like that. people are allowed to be left alone to follow their own path. people are allowed to follow their own heart for love and the way i always see it; love is where you find it. however it is not my business to know what others choose, that is their choice and conseqnetly their responsibility how ever it goes. none the less i still wish them luck for their future.
for me i see scotland locked into the uk now, i am english, born and raised and i want to see scotland free. in the usa, the black rights movement gained huge strides for freedom for all black people, now they have it for almost the most part, and i am fully supportive of this process to see these ethnic issues solved and for there to be true equality. ireland has passed some political bill recently allowing TRIBBLE marriages and i welcome it, because people have that right to be happy and free to choose. women in the workplace, in motorsports and other things of high visibility, i have no problem with women becoming the big star that is usually male dominated either.
unfortunately trendy there are some issues that will become warzones from it and it will bring in religious discussions on the subject of bisexual discussions. that is where this will likely go next as its a fertile ground for the next point.
the world is not fully embraced the idea of bisexual outings, thats just a fact at this point regardless and on one hand this thread should be kept open regardless because star trek is always been about tough social and political changes, some of which has transformed the society of this this world and if cryptic can change society with a simple game and two characters.. wow, that would be something.
but on the other end it will probably get a lot worse.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
If you read the Romulan War novels (can't remember which one) you will find that this is not the first time that a Klingon same sex couple was mentioned. The infamous Admiral Krell was mated to his male doctor.
Ramir is much less of an dislikeable A$$ as Franklin Drake.
In fact i found Ramir one of the more positve displayed Klingons in STO. He was professional and not a loudmouthed bragger like 95% of Klingons we encounter. (especially Capt. Koren :mad: :mad: :mad:)
@devs: Please give us more characters like him!
what she didn't get is that by changing the mission parameters to reduce the chance of a cataclysmic reaction to zero the chance of her mate making it out alive and not be vaporized by omega exploding isn't exactly "endangering" her but rather improving her safety even if they get caught and have to fight their way out at least they have a CHANCE rather them FWOMP *gone*
I agree, a I have somewhere earlier in the thread. I don't know why so many people think there has to be a "dom" and a "sub" in a relationship. However:
I liked that bit. It was clear that she got upset because she saw her wife in danger and she is a Klingon with an attitude, after all. Standing inf or her wife in that way that she goes so far as openly disagreeing and even willing to pick a fight with a superior officer did, in fact, deeply impress my Klingon captain. That takes courage. And that is something a Klingon can respect just as well. It's not that she called you a petaQ in front of your assembled crew, it was amongst the Pegh crew which are warriors but seem to operate under a loose protocol. My Klingon at least would have given her a smirk and a nod - encouraging her to not do it again, but respecting her attitude in the given situation. He's not an emotionless robot wanting to kill because someone "insults his honor".
Here, however, I agree again. I just don't undertand what the point of the mission was, why Khaless had to be there - why why why? There are so many huge holes in that plot...
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a military briefing is a professional, matter-of-fact meeting where only important info related to the mission's goal is discussed, and people don't normally behave like jealous adolescent teenagers during those just because someone talked to another person.
there's time for that after the mission success/failure and after debriefing, possibly before a final beam out, when there's no more urgency.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
SPOILERS FOLLOW!!!!
What should have been a moving story about the sacrifice one man makes to stand against evil and save others was turned into a politically correct/incorrect sideshow. I do not support that or agree with it.
I mean, you have freaking Kahless himself being killed by the Iconians and the Sword of Kahless lost in an Iconian base. It's a tragedy! Very dramatic storytelling! But it ends up being about a TRIBBLE couple in the forums.
I can admire devotion and affection for another person, regardless of gender. It doesn't have to be about sex. It didn't have to be about sex here, and would have played just as well without using the word 'mate'. It's a word with a very specific meaning in a specific biological context.
I feel that in their attempt to be politically correct, Cryptic not only invited controversy they also distracted and detracted from the story they were trying to tell. The death of Kahless at the hands of the Iconians.
I feel they also showed a lack of respect for the fact that the game is played by children as well as adults (rated T!) and this was an inappropriate subject to casually toss in.
I will say that it was at least not extremely overt and many children will miss it (as some of the adults did). But I feel parents have the right to be aware when things like this are brought up in a game context and not be blindsided by them. I am previewing the episode and have a chance to be a responsible parent to my teenage sons who play STO and have a discussion about it. If Cryptic wants to set this as a precedent and abuse my trust in their discretion, then I either need to preview every single episode before my sons get a chance to play it or I need to prevent them from playing at all. Either way, Cryptic, do you really want people preventing their kids from logging in at convenient times?
There was one other thing that bothered me about the story and it had nothing to do with the subject of mates. The fact that a character gets away with calling a Dahar Master a petaQ and I don't get to knock them on their butts or threaten to kill them for it like a good Klingon would have done, that was very unsatisfying.
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The dude's Kahless, if he wants to charge an Iconian all by his lonesome, well, Qa'pla!
As for the other matter, it's basically a damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Don't mention it, and you're ignoring <group> and a bigot. Mention it and it's SJW bait.
Hey, I liked Drake. He's an TRIBBLE, yes but I like him. Did like Ramir as well.
Especially since how quickly Ramir NOPE'd us the hell outta here.
ESRB: Content Descriptors: Fantasy Violence, Mild Suggestive Themes
Ignoring that, a game where there's constant violence up to and including completely disintegrating people and killing up to thousands of people every time you blow up a space ship is fine and dandy but acknowledging that two people are a couple is not?
Now I know some of you are thinking, "But...but...the couple's the same sex!"
My rebuttal, "So?"
Funny that. Hack up thousands of people with a sword, vaporize thousands more, condemn tens of thousands to horrific death by asphyxiation? Including at points literally sucking people out an airlock?
Fine for the kids!
But two alien ladies are mentioned once to be a couple and nothing is really made of it. It's just part of their character. But then it's "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"
Seriously? TRIBBLE people exist. Get used to it.
So, someone being electrocuted, losing an arm while screaming in agony, having this butchered remaining of arm shown, having someone stabbed from behind and gruesomely disintegrated, dramatically dropping a precious artefact as he dies, etc... is OK to show to children...
But... a TRIBBLE couple who doesn't partake in any sexual innuendos or more, merely having one being grumpy is inappropriate for them?
I... I don't even...