It's dead due to the horrible decisions and Korean grind clone and the declining player base. Retro STO being back up brought back more people than any of the past few updates and was the greatest chance for STO being decent again. Heko probably didn't enjoy people praising the contentless, horribly balanced old STO other than his unfun, second-job levels of grind STO.
Also with Iconian content coming out, and Iconians being the known end of the story line it's quite obvious this game is going into maintenance mode soon after. Champions being a prime example of how this game is going to end up in a few months.
#gaem is ded
yup clearly thats how it works with every game...
not.
even if they Iconians are defeated there are plenty of opportunities to expand outside of the known lore. Thats what great about universe stories, is that the universe is much bigger than one galaxy or two, that was the whole point of the statement ....
"where no man has gone before".
Sure its been the main theme for a while that the iconians are the proverbial bogeyman of the universe but themes change and so can stories. People with your mentality need to think outside the box.
Right, it's dead. However, there is a minor issue with your "claim," and that issue is that there are players who are actively still playing the game, so if the game is dead, wouldn't the server be shut down already? With regard to the "grind" of STO, it's only a "grind" if you think of it that way...
There are people still playing champions as well. Its a thriving community full of 20 very active players. lmao
Come on, man, you're just being mean now. So what if people wanted to download a joke for the sake of nostalgia? It doesn't affect you, you don't need to mock the people that did it.
"mean" implies I am intentionally causing offence.
As I said I am intentionally speaking the truth and if they find the truth offensive then thats not my problem...they are complaining about something which is there fault to begin with... thats not my problem its theirs..
He can't elaborate on it because he doesn't work on PvP.
No one does man... we know that. There is NO PvP developer. That is the problem. The last one quit... the one before that was fired... and I won't pretend to know what happened to the ones before that.
He is the one that suggested the possibility of the update so I asked him. Stop it dude you don't need to protect that man from a simple question.
Here I'll make it easier on you though...
"Hey Mr. T. Fangs... you been asked to work on any new map art for PvP lately ? "
(As THE art guy... yes he is involved in almost everything that happens in sto)
they are complaining about something which is there fault to begin with
So are you. You choose to read the forums, which everyone knows are full of complaining. Now you are complaining about other people complaining. So the end result is the very same thing you just said above: complaining about something which is your own fault to begin with.
Uh, that's a bit of a leap. Just because we're not going to be running a 5 year old build as a separate PVP shard, doesn't mean that PVP will never see an update. . .
Srsly, there hasn't been an update for a very very long time - I guess you know that aswell. There hasn't been the slightest sign of a PvP update beeing on the way. Everytime the PvP crowds asks "when will we see an update", they get rejected.
So how in the world do you think we're supposed to not think there won't ever be an update?
Even IF there is an update on the way - it won't be enough to restore PvP. It's that much broken that it will require multiple seasons dedicated only to PvP in order to fix what is left.
As part of the team, you might have a diffent (positive) view on your product and you still believe in it. But as a former PvP player, all hope is gone, I've completely lost my faith in STO. I'm not the only one thinking this way - it's pretty much every PvPer thinking this way.
A dedicated PvP shard has been the only hope and last chance to safe PvP. Now that's off the table aswell.
I made no assumption. I asked you a question(about whether you knew what a word meant), and left your answer open either way.
Unless you are a dev posting on a regular account, you can't speak for their intent. That said, I think it was a combination of the 2 things; both a joke and a look back to see how far the game has come in 5 years.
The problem seems to be that you are not willing to accept that other people think differently than you. As you said, you did not download the server, and neither did I for that matter. It seems neither of us thought it was worth the time. But just because other people thought differently does not make them wrong or foolish.
HA you assumed I didnt know what nostalgic means.
On the contrary it clearly wasnt meant to invoke nostalgia as it was a joke. If you think you need to be a specific person to read the intent of others then you need to broaden your observational skills and social skill in general (in that I mean no offence, I do seriously think you need to).
Unable to accept that others will think differently? nope.
Why? I accept the fact that people believed they could/would have time to play it and have enough time enjoy it. There is nothing in what I said that pushes the idea of me not accepting others think differently. Please stop making assumptions.
There is nothing wrong with being foolish I have been foolish plenty of times, the fact that you take such offence to it is truely astounding. Foolish is a word with a meaning, its supposed to be used in the correct context and it was so I used it.
To moan about it not being on there long enough when it was clearly intended not to be there past the day as they are a business not a fan service is what? you guessed it foolish.
They are a company and every second they left it up, it costs money.
So are you. You choose to read the forums, which everyone knows are full of complaining. Now you are complaining about other people complaining. So the end result is the very same thing you just said above: complaining about something which is your own fault to begin with.
I suppose that's your long winded way of calling me a hypocrite?
I never said I wasn't. I merely spoke honestly, people are complaining about it not being up long enough when it was there fault for downloading the "joke" in the first place.
anyway Im done, clearly this is going no where.
you may want to read what you've said to me and then ponder "what am i doing wrong?"
Every single fault you've pointed out is actually the exact faults you've got.
No, I asked if you did. Then I have 2 alternatives: "if you don't..." or "if you do".... So I left it open either way, without assuming which alternative was true.
On the contrary it clearly wasnt meant to invoke nostalgia as it was a joke.
Once again, unless you are claiming to be a dev, then you cannot speak for them. You do not know their intent. And it is possible for something to be both a joke and nostalgic.
There is nothing wrong with being foolish I have been foolish plenty of times, the fact that you take such offence to it is truely astounding. Foolish is a word with a meaning, its supposed to be used in the correct context and it was so I used it.
Don't worry, I am not offended in the least. I learned a very long time ago that getting offended by words on a computer screen is silly. I also learned how sad a tactic it is to insult other people to try to win an argument, and hope one day you will learn the same thing.
Even IF there is an update on the way - it won't be enough to restore PvP. It's that much broken that it will require multiple seasons dedicated only to PvP in order to fix what is left.
That isn't completely true. Players have detailed ways for it to be saved in one update. Other developers have even shown how it can be done in a Theme park MMO and work.
1 PvP update... that removed PvP from the current meta... and created a GW2 Style system where PvE and PvP gear where 2 different things. would be all it would take.
The tech is all in place at this point as well...
1) create a PvP Ship doll.
2) set the PVP ship doll up so that it can only slot "-p" PvP gear... and then populate some consoles on all the stations with ZERO Ec PvP gear. Things like "Phaser Beam Array MK X [acc] -p" Populate the consoles with all standard gear... but with a -p... don't allow this gear to be slotted on anything but the ships PvP doll.
3) delete the current PvP ques... and recreate them. (if the rumors are true and the old PvP code is a mess that no one there can read anymore) - this would allow for new maps to be created... and add the option for the foundry to be used to create Private Que PvP maps.
4) When loading a PVP map... have the map use the PvP ship doll. (just like a shuttle map switches you to your shuttle doll)... disable DOFFS and TRAITS completely when on a PvP map.
5) create a new PvP hub. (YES this would be alot of Mr. Fangs work) It would see 100x more use then the ESD disco area. Things like a leaderboard are possible (but not needed... although mancom would GIVE them his working code). However they could also include a PvP reputation system that allowed TITLES and COSMETICS to be unlocked... which would give them a way to SELL PvP cosmetics. Or include them in lockboxes. Each PvP ship doll could have a Engine / Shield / Deflector / Fireworks Cosmetic slot. They could then recycle a ton of existing artwork... and create the odd new thing here and there for a lockbox ect.
IMO that would 100% fix pvp. There would be no need for multiple patches... I also don't think it would be a ton of work comparatively. The main issue is eko and perhaps some of the other companies leaders don't see it as something worth doing... as they can't push the result into a metric chart that makes them appear to be doing a fantastic job.
What they fail to understand is its systems like this that keep games like GW on peoples machines. As an example I rarely play GW2 anymore... however I keep it around cause at any time I can pop back in and PvP and I don't have to go and grind a bunch of PVE to catch up ect. I can come back 2 months after my last log in and PvP at a high level. Often when I do that... I end up making a weekend out of it, and go and check out whats new with the rest of the game... and more then once I personally have thrown some $ at them, cause why not. STO is at a point where if you leave, coming back is so painful it just doesn't happen. Who wants to come back to a game to have fun... and realize first you have to spend a few weeks doing things you find unfun first.
My suggestion: Template Ships - premade and easy to balance.
You could have a new tab on your character screen called "combat simulation templates". There you can select one of many premade ship templates - gear, skills...already made up. Just select, hop in and set up your key binds -> rdy for fair and balanced pvp.
There are even lots of ways cryptic might monetize this:
- new ZEN templates
- more slots for templates
- skins!!! make your crappy default template ship look awesome
Further, to provide the maximum fairness and balance: all doffs, traits, rep traits, ship traits, crafting traits and spec trees should be disabled and ships should be T4 (or T5) only with blue mk xi gear. -> same conditions for all players using the same template!
Once a player successfully made up his "combat simulation templates" he is allowed to queue and engage in a new premade but balanced arena.
I believe, considering the current state of the game, this is the only way you can rescue PvP right now.
Pros and Cons in a nutshell:
- you will be limited in your personal and your teams setup
- you will find many players using the same templates and strats
+ easy to balance
+ it all comes down to individual skill and team performance
+ it will attract many new players cuz it's just 1 click until you're ready to roll and you're on par with veteran players
+ cryptic doesn't need to bother about the impact of new stuff they release outside of this mode
Either way, I currently believe that the chances any of the stuff ever happens equals zero. Needless to say that no Dev ever posted a comment on that idea. Hell, I'm sure that no Dev even read it at all since it was posted in the PvP forums - a place that the Devs have been avoiding for years...
Either way, I currently believe that the chances any of the stuff ever happens equals zero.
I agree with you completely. Its not going to happen of course. Cryptic has confused the concepts of game design and business models.
If they took a few days to do nothing but go and play some of the other MMOs on the market perhaps they would realize most of them make A LOT of $ selling cosmetics. I have detailed a way they could provide a mid season level patch that would set them up with a PvP system that would pay for itself with cosmetic sales. I simply don't think they believe any of us would spend $ if the shiny stuff we where buying wasn't OP in more then just looks. lol
For there to be the # of players present to make cosmetic only sales work... they need to provide something worth playing.
If Rebirth was the joke or a joke -- it still remains to be determined .
Heck, it could be that the joke was when it was removed .
Or ... -- considering that this was Cryptic's first April's Fool's joke in 5 years, that they may need some practice (to avoid unintentionally pissing off their nostalgic / classic PVP loving / classic STF loving humorless vets) .
... I guess we can take comfort and solace in the thought that while Cryptic's April's Fool's may have been wonky, the rest of the 364 days of the year give us plenty of things to celebrate about STO and it's fools ... , be they Dev or player alike ...
Your ideas would pretty much fly in the face of Trek. You know those missions where you have to fly some other ship that is not yours. Most people hate them. Why? Because people love their ships and being forced out of them suck.
Also. "The tech is all in place at this point as well..."
Cryptic sometimes act like they barely know their own code and let you do?
Your ideas would pretty much fly in the face of Trek. You know those missions where you have to fly some other ship that is not yours. Most people hate them. Why? Because people love their ships and being forced out of them suck.
My idea involves you flying the exact same ships you fly now... just with different gear slotted.
Think of it as a forced PvP load out.
I'm not saying you need to give up any of your BOFF skills... you can fly your lockboxes fleets what ever you want.
I am simply suggesting you have a second "PvP ship doll"... one you can load out with FREE PvP only gear for any ship you want to fly. So fly your "fleet" or lockbox versions of anything you want... but the number of consoles should be a standard. (so yes using those ships in PvP may mean giving up one potential console compared to the PvE version. Things like X escort has 5 tac consoles and Y escort has 4 tac but one more sci ect... would be fine. Boff layouts being different is also fine. As for T6 still having the extra boff skill... well we can't have everything. If that is the case so be it. I don't have any issue with PvP people still being pushed toward T6... its not like Cryptic hasn't given a few away at this point. Its also not balance breaking as much as traits and gear sets can be.
I'm not suggesting we all fly 2-3 of the same ship...
Again go explore the GW2 PvP system for reference.
The tech to make it happen is already in STO... at one time perhaps it would have involved creating new systems. However as it is now... everything they would need to make this happen is already in the code. They simply need to extend it to PvP.
My idea involves you flying the exact same ships you fly now... just with different gear slotted.
Think of it as a forced PvP load out.
I'm not saying you need to give up any of your BOFF skills... you can fly your lockboxes fleets what ever you want.
I am simply suggesting you have a second "PvP ship doll"... one you can load out with FREE PvP only gear for any ship you want to fly. So fly your "fleet" or lockbox versions of anything you want... but the number of consoles should be a standard. (so yes using those ships in PvP may mean giving up one potential console compared to the PvE version. Things like X escort has 5 tac consoles and Y escort has 4 tac but one more sci ect... would be fine. Boff layouts being different is also fine. As for T6 still having the extra boff skill... well we can't have everything. If that is the case so be it. I don't have any issue with PvP people still being pushed toward T6... its not like Cryptic hasn't given a few away at this point. Its also not balance breaking as much as traits and gear sets can be.
I'm not suggesting we all fly 2-3 of the same ship...
Again go explore the GW2 PvP system for reference.
The tech to make it happen is already in STO... at one time perhaps it would have involved creating new systems. However as it is now... everything they would need to make this happen is already in the code. They simply need to extend it to PvP.
I have played GW2's PvP. Not really much of a fan. It takes away the feeling of the win when fights pretty much come down to the "meta" more then anything else. You will always know what is coming.
Also when I'm talking about ships I mean gear as well. Do I get to use the weapon types that I want to? Or do I get to pick where my universal consoles go? Do I even get universals?
Also STO is not Guild Wars 2. If I'm remembering right at most someone will have to face around 15 skills, more if you count engineers and their kits. STO is a whole other beast.
Anyway STO is STO and GW2 is GW2. I don't think copying is the key to good games. Balance is happening. Maybe not at the speed or the way you want but it is happening.
edited:And I still don't see where this "tech" you think can fix pvp is at.
I have played GW2's PvP. Not really much of a fan. It takes away the feeling of the win when fights pretty much come down to the "meta" more then anything else. You will always know what is coming.
Also when I'm talking about ships I mean gear as well. Do I get to use the weapon types that I want to? Or do I get to pick where my universal consoles go? Do I even get universals?
Also STO is not Guild Wars 2. If I'm remembering right at most someone will have to face around 15 skills, more if you count engineers and their kits. STO is a whole other beast.
Anyway STO is STO and GW2 is GW2. I don't think copying is the key to good games. Balance is happening. Maybe not at the speed or the way you want but it is happening.
edited:And I still don't see where this "tech" you think can fix pvp is at.
The tech... is simple... Ship dolls (exists since they added the shuttle doll) meaning it is possible for them to force a ship swap on map load.
Loadouts... it is also possible for them on the fly to change your setup of Consoles (and even boff skills although I don't think that is needed) this can be triggered on a map load.
As for shutting off Duty officers and traits... this tech exists because bort said it did. Around a year and a half ago or so. (I am not going to go and try and find his post) he posted in a thread in the PVP section asking for the reaction people would have to them... either buffing player specs on PvP maps and or shutting off some systems on those maps. His post made it clear it was possible due to new tech they had added around that time.
As to the GW2 not being STO... your right its not. I never said it was. I was simply suggesting that other Theme park MMOs. (cause this game is nothing new my friend) have found a way to allow PvP to co exist. Theme parks have had issues with PvP for a long time. Yes games like WOW/Rift/STO/TOR they are all theme park MMOs. With the exception of Cryptic I would say every other Theme park developer has tired to support PVP by in someway splitting the mechanics off. Some go with PVP specs which I feel was a terrible way to go (some go the opposite route and add PVE specs, games like LOTRO for instance have or had radiance which was a PVE spec intended to keep high end PvE gear out of PvP by having less regular stats but enhanced pve specs)... some go with PvP gear which simply becomes another grind... some have went the way of GW2 and removed the grind for the gear and tried to create a market for $ sales of cosmetics.
Of all the systems I have seen GW2 imo is the best of them.
As for universals and such... no they have no place in PvP. There PvE items, and that's where they should stay. This game has plenty of buttons to push. 4 Captain skills + 2 Fleet skills + 12 Bridge officer skills + ship skills like evasive, brace for impact, and ramming speed. By my count that is at least 21 "skills". The possible number of builds is still very much more complicated then GW2... and that isn't counting the options of weapon layouts ect.
As for those free PvP vendors I suggest... yes I am suggesting every possible weapon type be added, as well as every possible Standard engine / defelector ect.
Yes the PVE sets and gear need to go for the PvP game to be esport level instead of the sad pile of junk it has become.
maybe if people weren't so busy making 30+ pages of posts about how it was clearly a joke and there's no way cryptic could or would do something like this on redshirt, they could have gotten on earlier and enjoyed it more.
As for universals and such... no they have no place in PvP. There PvE items, and that's where they should stay. This game has plenty of buttons to push. 4 Captain skills + 2 Fleet skills + 12 Bridge officer skills + ship skills like evasive, brace for impact, and ramming speed. By my count that is at least 21 "skills". The possible number of builds is still very much more complicated then GW2... and that isn't counting the options of weapon layouts ect.
As for those free PvP vendors I suggest... yes I am suggesting every possible weapon type be added, as well as every possible Standard engine / defelector ect.
Yes the PVE sets and gear need to go for the PvP game to be esport level instead of the sad pile of junk it has become.
Only quoting this part so I don't have to write out a big reply.
I understand how people felt when exploration was removed now. Thanks for that. Universals are kind of a risk/reward system. You go into a match a console short but now you have an ace. Removing those would really push same builds which I thought PvPers did not want.
Also every game does not have to be an esport.
If people want a Star Trek game STO is the final frontier. There is a lot of starship combat games. I see your ideas maybe taking away what makes Star Trek Online STO and just turning it into yet another space combat game.
As for a Borg Cube I can't imagine it working well at all. Picture ESD filled with Cubes and everyone stuck on each other trying to move! Sector Space with much of the same!
There are already people claiming all they're doing is converting Zen to Dil bc they don't need any other Fed ships ever.
It's begun!
If STO is using a final money grab, then what does it matter if CBS said no? Unless it specifically mentions that STO can't use endgame Constitutions or has to follow every order that CBS tells Cryptic within reason in their contract with CBS or else pay a substantial fee, then Cryptic could release an endgame Constitution if they know that their license is being pulled.
In my opinion, the reason why Cryptic hasn't released an endgame Constitution is due to Cryptic wanting to keep a civil relationship with CBS so that Cryptic can keep the STO license as long as they can.
Removing those would really push same builds which I thought PvPers did not want.
I don't think you understand what PvPers want. Allowing Cryptic to continue selling aces defeats the purpose of a ONLY one ever needed balance pass.
The point being Mr. Eko could continue selling what ever click toys he likes after such a move. In fact he could even feel free to release even more powerful (in pve) click toys all he likes.
If you think the system I propose would limit build you have very little imagination. Trust me there is nothing at all fresh and innovative nor is there any skill involved with loading things like Plasmotic leech ect.
They are the height of P2W silly development. Really they remove choice more then add to it. If everyone has to load a Plasmotic leech it is no longer a wise choice of a console slot. It becomes a standard thing and everyone looses one console slot. Ditto for any other Console worth slotting. When X or Y console becomes as useful as a Boff skill... it ceases to become a real built choice.
I don't think you understand what PvPers want. Allowing Cryptic to continue selling aces defeats the purpose of a ONLY one ever needed balance pass.
The point being Mr. Eko could continue selling what ever click toys he likes after such a move. In fact he could even feel free to release even more powerful (in pve) click toys all he likes.
If you think the system I propose would limit build you have very little imagination. Trust me there is nothing at all fresh and innovative nor is there any skill involved with loading things like Plasmotic leech ect.
They are the height of P2W silly development. Really they remove choice more then add to it. If everyone has to load a Plasmotic leech it is no longer a wise choice of a console slot. It becomes a standard thing and everyone looses one console slot. Ditto for any other Console worth slotting. When X or Y console becomes as useful as a Boff skill... it ceases to become a real built choice.
How about we don't remove content and make the other consoles useful? Going back to Guild Wars 2. Some sigils and items. They are pretty much on the same level as leech.
Also, one of the big reasons why universals are such a big deal is because eng and somethings science console slots are thought to be close to pointless for people. A good revamp to science and engineering consoles would help with that.
Last point. outside of ships that are trying to do science I'm pretty sure I know their console loadout, if they are not using universals I mean.
How about we don't remove content and make the other consoles useful? Going back to Guild Wars 2. Some sigils and items. They are pretty much on the same level as leech.
Also, one of the big reasons why universals are such a big deal is because eng and somethings science console slots are thought to be close to pointless for people. A good revamp to science and engineering consoles would help with that.
Last point. outside of ships that are trying to do science I'm pretty sure I know their console loadout, if they are not using universals I mean.
I wouldn't propose doing anything that would effect PVE... or introduce a second game that people would have to learn. The consoles should be the same with the acception that the -p branded PvP consoles should be standard consoles. Your right could they do -p branded Universals that may work.. sure, but they won't cause they won't give them away. Part of the point is that anyone could come in even if they where away for 6 months and not have to grind out things like consoles ect to compete with anyone.
As for knowing someones console layout... so what. If you think that would help you Vs a good player your mistaken. I have never hidden any of my builds, I have have and always was more then willing to share exactly what I was doing. Guess what still found people had fits trying to counter me for the most part... and I also 100% knew exactly what the other guys was loading as well... still good players made me sweet.
There isn't anything wrong with... Particle builds running pgens... or hold builds running gravs... or drainers running flows. Its no different then saying if I see someone shoot Phasers I know what tac cosnoles there running. Of course you do unless there stupid there running phaser consoles.
The consoles don't need changed... but having a system where people didn't have to grind for Uber Crafted gear, or lobi consoles for more stats... or hunt old lockboxes to get there leech/jump ect... makes it that much easier for returning players and completely new players to jump in right away. Which makes for more PvP... which believe it or not makes PvP players happy.
Comments
yup clearly thats how it works with every game...
not.
even if they Iconians are defeated there are plenty of opportunities to expand outside of the known lore. Thats what great about universe stories, is that the universe is much bigger than one galaxy or two, that was the whole point of the statement ....
"where no man has gone before".
Sure its been the main theme for a while that the iconians are the proverbial bogeyman of the universe but themes change and so can stories. People with your mentality need to think outside the box.
There are people still playing champions as well. Its a thriving community full of 20 very active players. lmao
He can't elaborate on it because he doesn't work on PvP.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Sometimes I'll install CO for a bit...just so I can punch stuff. Then I feel better...and uninstall it again.
"mean" implies I am intentionally causing offence.
As I said I am intentionally speaking the truth and if they find the truth offensive then thats not my problem...they are complaining about something which is there fault to begin with... thats not my problem its theirs..
No one does man... we know that. There is NO PvP developer. That is the problem. The last one quit... the one before that was fired... and I won't pretend to know what happened to the ones before that.
He is the one that suggested the possibility of the update so I asked him. Stop it dude you don't need to protect that man from a simple question.
Here I'll make it easier on you though...
"Hey Mr. T. Fangs... you been asked to work on any new map art for PvP lately ? "
(As THE art guy... yes he is involved in almost everything that happens in sto)
So are you. You choose to read the forums, which everyone knows are full of complaining. Now you are complaining about other people complaining. So the end result is the very same thing you just said above: complaining about something which is your own fault to begin with.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Srsly, there hasn't been an update for a very very long time - I guess you know that aswell. There hasn't been the slightest sign of a PvP update beeing on the way. Everytime the PvP crowds asks "when will we see an update", they get rejected.
So how in the world do you think we're supposed to not think there won't ever be an update?
Even IF there is an update on the way - it won't be enough to restore PvP. It's that much broken that it will require multiple seasons dedicated only to PvP in order to fix what is left.
As part of the team, you might have a diffent (positive) view on your product and you still believe in it. But as a former PvP player, all hope is gone, I've completely lost my faith in STO. I'm not the only one thinking this way - it's pretty much every PvPer thinking this way.
A dedicated PvP shard has been the only hope and last chance to safe PvP. Now that's off the table aswell.
HA you assumed I didnt know what nostalgic means.
On the contrary it clearly wasnt meant to invoke nostalgia as it was a joke. If you think you need to be a specific person to read the intent of others then you need to broaden your observational skills and social skill in general (in that I mean no offence, I do seriously think you need to).
Unable to accept that others will think differently? nope.
Why? I accept the fact that people believed they could/would have time to play it and have enough time enjoy it. There is nothing in what I said that pushes the idea of me not accepting others think differently. Please stop making assumptions.
There is nothing wrong with being foolish I have been foolish plenty of times, the fact that you take such offence to it is truely astounding. Foolish is a word with a meaning, its supposed to be used in the correct context and it was so I used it.
To moan about it not being on there long enough when it was clearly intended not to be there past the day as they are a business not a fan service is what? you guessed it foolish.
They are a company and every second they left it up, it costs money.
I suppose that's your long winded way of calling me a hypocrite?
I never said I wasn't. I merely spoke honestly, people are complaining about it not being up long enough when it was there fault for downloading the "joke" in the first place.
anyway Im done, clearly this is going no where.
you may want to read what you've said to me and then ponder "what am i doing wrong?"
Every single fault you've pointed out is actually the exact faults you've got.
No, I asked if you did. Then I have 2 alternatives: "if you don't..." or "if you do".... So I left it open either way, without assuming which alternative was true.
Once again, unless you are claiming to be a dev, then you cannot speak for them. You do not know their intent. And it is possible for something to be both a joke and nostalgic.
Don't worry, I am not offended in the least. I learned a very long time ago that getting offended by words on a computer screen is silly. I also learned how sad a tactic it is to insult other people to try to win an argument, and hope one day you will learn the same thing.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That isn't completely true. Players have detailed ways for it to be saved in one update. Other developers have even shown how it can be done in a Theme park MMO and work.
1 PvP update... that removed PvP from the current meta... and created a GW2 Style system where PvE and PvP gear where 2 different things. would be all it would take.
The tech is all in place at this point as well...
1) create a PvP Ship doll.
2) set the PVP ship doll up so that it can only slot "-p" PvP gear... and then populate some consoles on all the stations with ZERO Ec PvP gear. Things like "Phaser Beam Array MK X [acc] -p" Populate the consoles with all standard gear... but with a -p... don't allow this gear to be slotted on anything but the ships PvP doll.
3) delete the current PvP ques... and recreate them. (if the rumors are true and the old PvP code is a mess that no one there can read anymore) - this would allow for new maps to be created... and add the option for the foundry to be used to create Private Que PvP maps.
4) When loading a PVP map... have the map use the PvP ship doll. (just like a shuttle map switches you to your shuttle doll)... disable DOFFS and TRAITS completely when on a PvP map.
5) create a new PvP hub. (YES this would be alot of Mr. Fangs work) It would see 100x more use then the ESD disco area. Things like a leaderboard are possible (but not needed... although mancom would GIVE them his working code). However they could also include a PvP reputation system that allowed TITLES and COSMETICS to be unlocked... which would give them a way to SELL PvP cosmetics. Or include them in lockboxes. Each PvP ship doll could have a Engine / Shield / Deflector / Fireworks Cosmetic slot. They could then recycle a ton of existing artwork... and create the odd new thing here and there for a lockbox ect.
IMO that would 100% fix pvp. There would be no need for multiple patches... I also don't think it would be a ton of work comparatively. The main issue is eko and perhaps some of the other companies leaders don't see it as something worth doing... as they can't push the result into a metric chart that makes them appear to be doing a fantastic job.
What they fail to understand is its systems like this that keep games like GW on peoples machines. As an example I rarely play GW2 anymore... however I keep it around cause at any time I can pop back in and PvP and I don't have to go and grind a bunch of PVE to catch up ect. I can come back 2 months after my last log in and PvP at a high level. Often when I do that... I end up making a weekend out of it, and go and check out whats new with the rest of the game... and more then once I personally have thrown some $ at them, cause why not. STO is at a point where if you leave, coming back is so painful it just doesn't happen. Who wants to come back to a game to have fun... and realize first you have to spend a few weeks doing things you find unfun first.
Sorry for the wall of post.
I also made some suggestions how to save PvP:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1375531
Either way, I currently believe that the chances any of the stuff ever happens equals zero. Needless to say that no Dev ever posted a comment on that idea. Hell, I'm sure that no Dev even read it at all since it was posted in the PvP forums - a place that the Devs have been avoiding for years...
I agree with you completely. Its not going to happen of course. Cryptic has confused the concepts of game design and business models.
If they took a few days to do nothing but go and play some of the other MMOs on the market perhaps they would realize most of them make A LOT of $ selling cosmetics. I have detailed a way they could provide a mid season level patch that would set them up with a PvP system that would pay for itself with cosmetic sales. I simply don't think they believe any of us would spend $ if the shiny stuff we where buying wasn't OP in more then just looks. lol
For there to be the # of players present to make cosmetic only sales work... they need to provide something worth playing.
Heck, it could be that the joke was when it was removed .
Or ... -- considering that this was Cryptic's first April's Fool's joke in 5 years, that they may need some practice (to avoid unintentionally pissing off their nostalgic / classic PVP loving / classic STF loving humorless vets) .
... I guess we can take comfort and solace in the thought that while Cryptic's April's Fool's may have been wonky, the rest of the 364 days of the year give us plenty of things to celebrate about STO and it's fools ... , be they Dev or player alike ...
Actually no. The final money grab would be an endgame Constitution and Borg Cube.
Your ideas would pretty much fly in the face of Trek. You know those missions where you have to fly some other ship that is not yours. Most people hate them. Why? Because people love their ships and being forced out of them suck.
Also. "The tech is all in place at this point as well..."
Cryptic sometimes act like they barely know their own code and let you do?
I thought the borg lockbox was the final money grab? Also TNG was not my Trek. I found Picard to a bit of a bootlicker in my mind.
My idea involves you flying the exact same ships you fly now... just with different gear slotted.
Think of it as a forced PvP load out.
I'm not saying you need to give up any of your BOFF skills... you can fly your lockboxes fleets what ever you want.
I am simply suggesting you have a second "PvP ship doll"... one you can load out with FREE PvP only gear for any ship you want to fly. So fly your "fleet" or lockbox versions of anything you want... but the number of consoles should be a standard. (so yes using those ships in PvP may mean giving up one potential console compared to the PvE version. Things like X escort has 5 tac consoles and Y escort has 4 tac but one more sci ect... would be fine. Boff layouts being different is also fine. As for T6 still having the extra boff skill... well we can't have everything. If that is the case so be it. I don't have any issue with PvP people still being pushed toward T6... its not like Cryptic hasn't given a few away at this point. Its also not balance breaking as much as traits and gear sets can be.
I'm not suggesting we all fly 2-3 of the same ship...
Again go explore the GW2 PvP system for reference.
The tech to make it happen is already in STO... at one time perhaps it would have involved creating new systems. However as it is now... everything they would need to make this happen is already in the code. They simply need to extend it to PvP.
I have played GW2's PvP. Not really much of a fan. It takes away the feeling of the win when fights pretty much come down to the "meta" more then anything else. You will always know what is coming.
Also when I'm talking about ships I mean gear as well. Do I get to use the weapon types that I want to? Or do I get to pick where my universal consoles go? Do I even get universals?
Also STO is not Guild Wars 2. If I'm remembering right at most someone will have to face around 15 skills, more if you count engineers and their kits. STO is a whole other beast.
Anyway STO is STO and GW2 is GW2. I don't think copying is the key to good games. Balance is happening. Maybe not at the speed or the way you want but it is happening.
edited:And I still don't see where this "tech" you think can fix pvp is at.
The tech... is simple... Ship dolls (exists since they added the shuttle doll) meaning it is possible for them to force a ship swap on map load.
Loadouts... it is also possible for them on the fly to change your setup of Consoles (and even boff skills although I don't think that is needed) this can be triggered on a map load.
As for shutting off Duty officers and traits... this tech exists because bort said it did. Around a year and a half ago or so. (I am not going to go and try and find his post) he posted in a thread in the PVP section asking for the reaction people would have to them... either buffing player specs on PvP maps and or shutting off some systems on those maps. His post made it clear it was possible due to new tech they had added around that time.
As to the GW2 not being STO... your right its not. I never said it was. I was simply suggesting that other Theme park MMOs. (cause this game is nothing new my friend) have found a way to allow PvP to co exist. Theme parks have had issues with PvP for a long time. Yes games like WOW/Rift/STO/TOR they are all theme park MMOs. With the exception of Cryptic I would say every other Theme park developer has tired to support PVP by in someway splitting the mechanics off. Some go with PVP specs which I feel was a terrible way to go (some go the opposite route and add PVE specs, games like LOTRO for instance have or had radiance which was a PVE spec intended to keep high end PvE gear out of PvP by having less regular stats but enhanced pve specs)... some go with PvP gear which simply becomes another grind... some have went the way of GW2 and removed the grind for the gear and tried to create a market for $ sales of cosmetics.
Of all the systems I have seen GW2 imo is the best of them.
As for universals and such... no they have no place in PvP. There PvE items, and that's where they should stay. This game has plenty of buttons to push. 4 Captain skills + 2 Fleet skills + 12 Bridge officer skills + ship skills like evasive, brace for impact, and ramming speed. By my count that is at least 21 "skills". The possible number of builds is still very much more complicated then GW2... and that isn't counting the options of weapon layouts ect.
As for those free PvP vendors I suggest... yes I am suggesting every possible weapon type be added, as well as every possible Standard engine / defelector ect.
Yes the PVE sets and gear need to go for the PvP game to be esport level instead of the sad pile of junk it has become.
Only quoting this part so I don't have to write out a big reply.
I understand how people felt when exploration was removed now. Thanks for that. Universals are kind of a risk/reward system. You go into a match a console short but now you have an ace. Removing those would really push same builds which I thought PvPers did not want.
Also every game does not have to be an esport.
If people want a Star Trek game STO is the final frontier. There is a lot of starship combat games. I see your ideas maybe taking away what makes Star Trek Online STO and just turning it into yet another space combat game.
If STO is using a final money grab, then what does it matter if CBS said no? Unless it specifically mentions that STO can't use endgame Constitutions or has to follow every order that CBS tells Cryptic within reason in their contract with CBS or else pay a substantial fee, then Cryptic could release an endgame Constitution if they know that their license is being pulled.
In my opinion, the reason why Cryptic hasn't released an endgame Constitution is due to Cryptic wanting to keep a civil relationship with CBS so that Cryptic can keep the STO license as long as they can.
I don't think you understand what PvPers want. Allowing Cryptic to continue selling aces defeats the purpose of a ONLY one ever needed balance pass.
The point being Mr. Eko could continue selling what ever click toys he likes after such a move. In fact he could even feel free to release even more powerful (in pve) click toys all he likes.
If you think the system I propose would limit build you have very little imagination. Trust me there is nothing at all fresh and innovative nor is there any skill involved with loading things like Plasmotic leech ect.
They are the height of P2W silly development. Really they remove choice more then add to it. If everyone has to load a Plasmotic leech it is no longer a wise choice of a console slot. It becomes a standard thing and everyone looses one console slot. Ditto for any other Console worth slotting. When X or Y console becomes as useful as a Boff skill... it ceases to become a real built choice.
How about we don't remove content and make the other consoles useful? Going back to Guild Wars 2. Some sigils and items. They are pretty much on the same level as leech.
Also, one of the big reasons why universals are such a big deal is because eng and somethings science console slots are thought to be close to pointless for people. A good revamp to science and engineering consoles would help with that.
Last point. outside of ships that are trying to do science I'm pretty sure I know their console loadout, if they are not using universals I mean.
in that regards, by your own series of post, your opinion is just as valuable as that fat hobo at an intersection asking for food.
I wouldn't propose doing anything that would effect PVE... or introduce a second game that people would have to learn. The consoles should be the same with the acception that the -p branded PvP consoles should be standard consoles. Your right could they do -p branded Universals that may work.. sure, but they won't cause they won't give them away. Part of the point is that anyone could come in even if they where away for 6 months and not have to grind out things like consoles ect to compete with anyone.
As for knowing someones console layout... so what. If you think that would help you Vs a good player your mistaken. I have never hidden any of my builds, I have have and always was more then willing to share exactly what I was doing. Guess what still found people had fits trying to counter me for the most part... and I also 100% knew exactly what the other guys was loading as well... still good players made me sweet.
There isn't anything wrong with... Particle builds running pgens... or hold builds running gravs... or drainers running flows. Its no different then saying if I see someone shoot Phasers I know what tac cosnoles there running. Of course you do unless there stupid there running phaser consoles.
The consoles don't need changed... but having a system where people didn't have to grind for Uber Crafted gear, or lobi consoles for more stats... or hunt old lockboxes to get there leech/jump ect... makes it that much easier for returning players and completely new players to jump in right away. Which makes for more PvP... which believe it or not makes PvP players happy.