How Many Iconians Starships would it take to “Blot out the Sun”?

ddesjardins

From the lootcritter.com STO blog:

The following is math performed by an idiot. On a napkin. While drinking. View accordingly.

Lets assume that the surface of the Iconian Dyson Sphere is ‘slightly’ less than 1 AU from its power-source star, matching to some degree the other two Dyson Spheres we have encountered.

1 a.u. = 149597871 kilometers.

Lets assume that you only need enough spindly star ships to blot out enough sky to prevent reflected light around the edges. For the purposes of this argument, lets say half of the surface area is all that is needed.

Area= 4 π r²
Area= 4*3.14*(149597871)²
Area=2.87×10^17 Square Kilometers
or in this case half 14,400,000,000,000,000,000 sq.Km

That’s something between quadrillion and quintillion. Even Google has issues with this.

Lets be generous and say it only takes 10 starships to blot out 1 square kilometer of space. I know, I know, this is a guess.

That would make the number of Iconian starships necessary to ‘blot out the sun':
144 QUINTILLION (18 zeros) starships.

We are seriously in trouble – or – Cryptic is trolling us about the grind to come.

‘Just sayin we need 1 red matter torpedo.

Could not agree more

ladymyajha

ddesjardins wrote: »

From the lootcritter.com STO blog:




Could not agree more

I could come up with all kinds of White Knight reasoning to counter the math if I really wanted to... smaller stars... bigger ships... blah blah blah...

But even after doing all of that I would have to agree with the fact that Cryptic is trolling us with the grind to come.

thegrandnagus1

My reply from the page(currently awaiting approval):

The answer is obvious: Sela was wrong. The ship’s weren’t blocking out the sun, the star has just died out in this incredibly ancient sphere. Or Alternatively, the atmosphere has become extremely polluted in some way hiding it. I mean, there are times here on Earth when the sun is hidden behind clouds, so let’s not be ridiculous here.

eiledon

of course this math is predicated on the ships being close to that 1 AU distance from the stellar body in question. if they were located near or within the stars corona I would expect the number would be much less, probably still in the neighbourhood of hundreds of thousands though.

ladymyajha

thegrandnagus1 wrote: »

My reply from the page(currently awaiting approval):

The other option here is the sun going dark had something to do with the sphere jumping such long distances from galaxy to galaxy.

Still... I have to think that Cryptic is trolling us.

ladymyajha

eiledon wrote: »

of course this math is predicated on the ships being close to that 1 AU distance from the stellar body in question. if they were located near or within the stars corona I would expect the number would be much less, probably still in the neighbourhood of hundreds of thousands though.

hundreds of thousands is a bit more believable though. One has to wonder how many starships the Republic, the Klingons, and the Federation have combined.

Then think that the Iconians aren't acting alone either... they have their own allies and client races (the Elachi, the Vaadwaar, the Heralds... those bug like science thingings that I'm drawing a blank on...) so hundreds of thousands is probably closes to accurate when you combine them all in an enclosed space.

drakethewhite

Well, one ship could block out the sun if it was large enough and close enough. But I assume this blocked light not just on that platform but out to the visible horizon. So the real question is what's the visible horizon in that, and we don't know.

However the fact that it was more efficient to move the whole sphere and it's contents than have the ships go on their own through gateways does indicate that there are... insane numbers.

The very existence of one of those (let alone 3) those spheres is already insane.

But then again, I don't turn to Star Trek in any modern form for serious and detailed out simulation of possible futures. So I had but one thought...

Look at all that XP!

erei1

Well, if they are all in front of you, I'm pretty sure they can make a wall of ship that block the sun light.

Either that, or the answer is "as many as reapers in ME".

bobtheskull99

drakethewhite wrote: »

Well, one ship could block out the sun if it was large enough and close enough. But I assume this blocked light not just on that platform but out to the visible horizon. So the real question is what's the visible horizon in that, and we don't know.

However the fact that it was more efficient to move the whole sphere and it's contents than have the ships go on their own through gateways does indicate that there are... insane numbers.

The very existence of one of those (let alone 3) those spheres is already insane.

But then again, I don't turn to Star Trek in any modern form for serious and detailed out simulation of possible futures. So I had but one thought...

Look at all that XP!

pretty much this...without knowing the distances involved I wouldn't bother trying to guestimate how many ship we are talking about.......I mean a single tree can block out the sun if you happen to be standing directly under it

ladymyajha

Here's another thing of interest. The Federation, Republic, and Klingons have really only been active for a few thousands of years in building star ships... lets add in the Cardassians, Ferengi.. .etc etc... and really we're talking in our minds a lot of ships. But a lot of those ships have been involved in wars etc.. and there have been losses.

Now lets assume that whatever foothold the Iconians have in the Adromeda is pretty stable and their losses are on par with the losses of the Alpha and Beta quadrant forces for about the same time table.. We still come up with a net gain.

Thing is... the Iconians have been around for MILLIONS of years doing this... even with all their losses in their own war... they still had to have something... and they obviously had a fallback safe zone allowing them to rebuild... and assuming that their size probably isn't much bigger then a quadrant in their galaxy due to other races in that galaxy holding them off...

It's pretty safe to say that they have a lot more ships then we do.... barring some other unforseen catastrophe or other issues in the Adromeda that we're not aware of.

That and since they still had access to their own transportation systems... resources wouldn't be much of an issue since you have near instantaneous transportation of resources.

quintaris

The Federation only needs one starship to stop the Iconians...the USS Player Character. When you absolutely, positively, have to kill every mob on the map, accept no substitutes.

ddesjardins

Or just maybe, just maybe, theres a solution to this crisis that doesn't involve destroying everything we meet.

Now how Star Trek would that be?

Also.. don't take the numbers to seriously. He did say:

The following is math performed by an idiot. On a napkin. While drinking. View accordingly.

quintaris

ddesjardins wrote: »

Or just maybe, just maybe, theres a solution to this crisis that doesn't involve destroying everything we meet.

I don't understand.

legendarylycan

ddesjardins wrote: »

Or just maybe, just maybe, theres a solution to this crisis that doesn't involve destroying everything we meet.

Now how Star Trek would that be?

Also.. don't take the numbers to seriously. He did say:

and you can bet whatever deus ex machina cryptic pulls out of its TRIBBLE for this, it's going to involve time travel, because "The Iconians can't travel through time. It destroys their minds."

hypl

The ships are probably un-manned, or operated by one or a handful of Heralds. Or perhaps the Heralds are like the Jem'Hadar and were "created" by the Iconians to serve as bodyguards. Mass produce soldiers and ships for them to use against us, utilizing the full resources of the Dyson Sphere.

Doesn't matter how many there are. They're mortal, and they bleed and die like every other life form. And we also know the Iconians are vulnerable to temporal phenomena, perhaps chronitons. Zap them with chronitons and they're dead. End of story.

ladymyajha

ddesjardins wrote: »

Or just maybe, just maybe, theres a solution to this crisis that doesn't involve destroying everything we meet.

Now how Star Trek would that be?

Also.. don't take the numbers to seriously. He did say:

Yeah I was just toying with the math now that he started it and coming up with other explinations and such... basically he caused me to geek out there for a bit..

Though wait... a diplomatic solution to the crisis... in STO... HAhahahahahaaha... omg that was great.... HAHAHahahaa... lol.... hahah...

lordvalecortez

ladymyajha wrote: »

Yeah I was just toying with the math now that he started it and coming up with other explinations and such... basically he caused me to geek out there for a bit..

Though wait... a diplomatic solution to the crisis... in STO... HAhahahahahaaha... omg that was great.... HAHAHahahaa... lol.... hahah...

Wait wait wait. We can get them to not kill us? Without killing them first? By talking to them? So you mean that nice diplomatic uniform isn't just a nice dress uniform to wear at parties?

rattler2

quintaris wrote: »

The Federation only needs one starship to stop the Iconians...the USS Player Character. When you absolutely, positively, have to kill every mob on the map, accept no substitutes.

That is almost sig worthy...

If I didn't already have my pic and quote that skirts the line limit already I'd ask if I could use that. :cool:

On another note... I already have a couple ideas on what music to blast while fighting them. All from the RWBY soundtrack.

warmaker001b

'How Many Iconians Starships would it take to “Blot out the Sun”?'

Doesn't matter. Because we'll destroy them all as if they were normal Borg Spheres and Probes.

rattler2

After a bit of a learning curve that always comes with a new enemy type. I remember when the Tholians were first brought in. They were tough. Same with the Vaadwaur and Voth. Now... I know how to fight them and what to expect.


*Mutters about Vaadwaur Anchor Drones being evil*

welcome2earf

I suppose if you're close enough to the ships, they'll block out anything?

Unknown

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legendarylycan

rattler2 wrote: »

*Mutters about Vaadwaur Anchor Drones being evil*

And this is why we FAW

rattler2

westmetals wrote: »

Also, there are (not that I recall in the ST universe, but in other universes) non-solid "ships" (actually swarms of ships) or other artificial substances which could be used in such a case. My main thought here is the Babylon 5 universe's Shadow Planetkiller, which was actually a cloud made up of a very large number of very small ships/guided missiles. It was not "solid" but was opaque to visible light.

Actually... if you watched the Babylon 5 movie A Call to Arms, we learn that the Shadow Cloud isn't exactly a cloud. It has a superstructure hidded inside that consists of basically a lattice that surrounds a planet before launching its missiles. There are beam weapons as well for point defence if any enemy ships actually get close enough to the structure itself.

http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Cloud

shadowfang240 wrote: »

And this is why we FAW

Not on my cannon equipped Phantom, the USS Erza Scarlet. Luckilly I have AP Omega. But I can get unlucky enough to get caught facing away from one with my AP Omega on cooldown. >.<

markhawkman

I'm going with several thousand. not necessarily large ships, but ships.

culmenation

ladymyajha wrote: »

Thing is... the Iconians have been around for MILLIONS of years doing this... even with all their losses in their own war... they still had to have something... and they obviously had a fallback safe zone allowing them to rebuild... and assuming that their size probably isn't much bigger then a quadrant in their galaxy due to other races in that galaxy holding them off...

It's pretty safe to say that they have a lot more ships then we do.... barring some other unforseen catastrophe or other issues in the Adromeda that we're not aware of.

That and since they still had access to their own transportation systems... resources wouldn't be much of an issue since you have near instantaneous transportation of resources.

Thats the thing about a number with 18 zeroes behind. Assuming that the iconians have had 100 Million years to construct, they would not to build 1,440,000,000,000 ships every year with no losses.
Put it another way. If every star system in the Milkyway had a ship yard, each shipyard would have to produce 14.4 ships every year for that 100 Million years.

Then again they built multiple dyson shells. So construction is not a big issue.
Lets consider crews instead.
If every star system in the milkyway had 10 billion people in it. And each ship was crewed by 1 iconian/servitor. Than the Iconian fleet's population would still out number the entire galaxy by a factor of 144.

You see. This is what happens when you start doing calculation on things that are literally astronomical in size.

I think its only plausible if the overwhelming majority of those ships were drone controlled.
Meaning we'll probably get to hack it at some point.

kitsunesnout

Hack em'? I knew it, Independence Day parody, here we come! :P.

Unknown

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rattler2

I guess so. *shrug*

warmaker001b

rattler2 wrote: »

After a bit of a learning curve that always comes with a new enemy type. I remember when the Tholians were first brought in. They were tough. Same with the Vaadwaur and Voth. Now... I know how to fight them and what to expect.


*Mutters about Vaadwaur Anchor Drones being evil*

BFAW is the getaway card. The Vaadwaur also like to use Tricobalts. Again, BFAW is the getaway card. Like it always is.

millimidget

What I'm now wondering is how many other galaxies the Iconians have a sphere presence in.

I think it'd be pretty cool if there were only a handful in each of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies, and most of the thousands of spheres were scattered across thousands more galaxies.