But many see the words the devs say as proof that it is happening, must happen, then when it doesn't (if it doesn't at all, or not the way they expected), blame them for it when no blame was needed in the first place (at least in regards to the changes themselves)
I think a big problem with Cryptic's communication (back when they still talked about their plans) was that they never told us when a plan didn't work out.
I'm fairly certain that most players would understand if they were told "Sorry, we had announced that we wanted to get feature XYZ into the game, but we ran into technical difficulties while implementing it / decided that something else was more important / (some other reason), so we had to postpone / cancel / modify it". But Cryptic never communicated those changes.
We were told (in July 2010) that PVP tournament queues and leaderboards were in development or already in testing - and then we never heard a single thing again about this topic from Cryptic.
We were told that there were possibly going to be 8-10 feature episode series (!) per year, so essentially almost a new episode every week - and again we never got a "sorry, change of plans" message. When Stahl left, it appeared that d'Angelo hadn't even heard of Stahl's FE series plan.
Skill Points grind Issue - Will this ever be addressed?
D,
Once again, taco cannot fix these bugs so :P
I truly wish that statement had come from a Dev, askray... having the current progression acknowledged as working badly and that it could be fixed would be a wonderful thing.
Overall... taco at least comes on, braves the fires of the forums, to communicate openly and honestly with us. Of the devs, tacofangs is probably the best communicator, and he is one of the few that I really do believe are listening when we provide feedback (he's not the only one). Yes, there have got to be certain devs, related to certain aspects of the game, that aren't listening based on what we've seen of late... but all indications are that our environmental artist isn't one of them. It's easy to let frustration about some aspects of the game (progression, for example) make us want to criticize things they do in other aspects (environments, for example), but it's important to remember that one isn't necessarily related to another.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
In the future, if there is a dispute about something I (or any dev) say, can we please leave it at the question, and wait for a response? Please?
Question... Do you come with a dilithium buy now button? Unfortunately most people have been conditioned with instant gratification that can be solved with money.
Someday I hope to get a response before I hit the reply button just because posting is sooooooo tedious.
Oh goodie, another cheerleader recruit, pray tell where in the game is your happy majority?
Not in ques, not in social zones and Delta Quadrant isn't really packed, so since population as a whole is polar opposite of the forumgoers, where are they?
I'll believe your assertion as soon as you get me the logs from the server detailing player numbers and where they are. Oh, you don't have those? I don't either, but, then, I don't claim to speak for the majority, only claim that it *may* think differently from what the (again, 3% per Tacofangs) forum base does.
As far as cheerleaders, I'm no cheerleader. The game has flaws. My opinjon of the severity of said flaws may differ from yours. However, I don't like to waste my time whining about things I can't change. You seem to enjoy the activity, however.
I don't know. Some people in this world just need a good killing. And of course dependant entirely on who they targeted, might cause applause from some parts of the forums (and some parts of the world).
Of course, my personal feelings on which targets I would support being murdered are entirely irrelevant.
Just saying, that it is human nature to often support harm done to others who we believe deserve it. So, you would be technically correct... if Cryptic got away with murder, in the very literal sense of the term, people who did not like their target enough to encourage their demise would, perhaps, support them in that action.
I'll believe your assertion as soon as you get me the logs from the server detailing player numbers and where they are. Oh, you don't have those? I don't either, but, then, I don't claim to speak for the majority, only claim that it *may* think differently from what the (again, 3% per Tacofangs) forum base does.
As far as cheerleaders, I'm no cheerleader. The game has flaws. My opinjon of the severity of said flaws may differ from yours. However, I don't like to waste my time whining about things I can't change. You seem to enjoy the activity, however.
No, you are just another preachy parrot rehashing PR.
Yes, they are all hiding under the pier on Risa instance #1, I need official data to confirm my observation and especially empty ques.
I don't know. Some people in this world just need a good killing. And of course dependant entirely on who they targeted, might cause applause from some parts of the forums (and some parts of the world).
Of course, my personal feelings on which targets I would support being murdered are entirely irrelevant.
Just saying, that it is human nature to often support harm done to others who we believe deserve it. So, you would be technically correct... if Cryptic got away with murder, in the very literal sense of the term, people who did not like their target enough to encourage their demise would, perhaps, support them in that action.
Totally agree, and some monkies deserve a good whipping because why soil your hands with such mongrels? For example those with veiled threats of physical violence on forums of a videogame, naturally I don't claim I know any.
Totally agree, and some monkies deserve a good whipping because why soil your hands with such mongrels? For example those with veiled threats of physical violence on forums of a videogame, naturally I don't claim I know any.
If those statements are gonna be like "Delta Rising is our greatest expansion ever. And the people love it!", then he need not bother, fas as I'm concerned.
Note that the "Most Successful Expansion Ever!" comment was something like a day after launch. And yes, at that moment, the day prior had been (at least one of) our biggest sales days ever. So yes, it was. Is it now, 6 weeks later? I don't know. But please stop trotting that line around as an example of "Cryptic Lying to us."
Note that the "Most Successful Expansion Ever!" comment was something like a day after launch. And yes, at that moment, the day prior had been (at least one of) our biggest sales days ever. So yes, it was. Is it now, 6 weeks later? I don't know. But please stop trotting that line around as an example of "Cryptic Lying to us."
OK, fair enough, thank you, and that couldn't be said before forums turned into Stalingrad?
I would like to point out that statement, among many other things, was one of the conflict focal points including bans and thread closures well within 6 weeks and after the launch.
I believe part of the problem may that, well, people equate listening with 'being worked on/will be done/etc' The problem with that is, listening is just that; not a guarantee that it will be done, or done the way it was thought to be, and so forth.
While our views differ, you're absolutely right about the above. Every time I've appeared in court, the judge has listened to me, but he's never once done what I wanted him to, and dismissed the charges
OK, fair enough, thank you, and that couldn't be said before forums turned into Stalingrad?
I would like to point out that statement, among many other things, was one of the conflict focal points including bans and thread closures well after 6 weeks.
it can't have been well after six weeks because six weeks ago it launched. Unless you're time traveling back from the future to have this conversation there's no way your timeline matches up.
it can't have been well after six weeks because six weeks ago it launched. Unless you're time traveling back from the future to have this conversation there's no way your timeline matches up.
Note that the "Most Successful Expansion Ever!" comment was something like a day after launch. And yes, at that moment, the day prior had been (at least one of) our biggest sales days ever. So yes, it was. Is it now, 6 weeks later? I don't know. But please stop trotting that line around as an example of "Cryptic Lying to us."
The snark in your last sentence was totally uncalled for. For starters, 'trotting that line around'?! It's probably the first time I mentioned it.
It's true, though, that I do not think D'Angelo has been very honest to us (recall Specgate?). Sorry if that upsets you.
i get over excited sometimes with the game, and have once or twice have vented on the forums as a release socket, fell upon deaf ears or was met with disapline or answered. point being some of us enjoy the game and get bent out of shape when its not perfect, with noone to fix the problem gets more fustrating. so the forums and devs and mods become targets. im not saying it is correct or if it works, im just saying how it is and i for one am guilty.
i think all we want is game to work correctly. i understand all games have bugs and glitches, but sto seems to have more then its fair share and people react.
Note that the "Most Successful Expansion Ever!" comment was something like a day after launch. And yes, at that moment, the day prior had been (at least one of) our biggest sales days ever. So yes, it was. Is it now, 6 weeks later? I don't know. But please stop trotting that line around as an example of "Cryptic Lying to us."
For myself, I wouldn't call it lying ... these things are for marketing and get written up based on data at the moment and can't reflect things that come up after they went out. I would, however, call it ironic that the comment hit just as fallout was starting to come down and people grabbed hold of it during the firestorms that followed.
My only real complaints about DR involve the handling of progression:
- the Delta Quadrant story arc is great, I love the work that went into it, but the start-stop progression is so jarring and uneven that it become more aggrivating than enjoyable.
- the new queue progression (normal > advanced > elite) is a fine idea and it was demonstrated early on that a pre-made group could handle Advanced with just a few tactical modifications. The problem is that you need good gear for the Advanced and higher runs but you can't get some of that without the rewards from the Advanced queues. It's an annoying Catch 22 situation.
heh so now we have F2Q model (free 2 quit) - cryptic dont want long time players - they just want their money (new lockboxes, lifetime, upgrades etc).
so yes i believie him when he say:
Note that the "Most Successful Expansion Ever!" comment was something like a day after launch. And yes, at that moment, the day prior had been (at least one of) our biggest sales days ever. So yes, it was. Is it now, 6 weeks later? I don't know. But please stop trotting that line around as an example of "Cryptic Lying to us."
but from customers side this looks like: empty queues, nerfs, more mad peps, less fun.
About new content:
- YOU GUYS JUST disable few patrols and drag it into new sector space,
- u create 2 elite mission (still bugged korfez, and ironic "bug" hunt)
- new difficulty is a joke (old missions/stf have only advanced lvl)
So this succesfull expansion overall imho is a lie - marketing lie, nothing else...
Now i know in 100% - this is time to leave this fake product.
This is not company policy I'm stating, it is simple facts of business transactions.
We are a business. We want you to buy our products. We want to hear about what you want from us. If you don't like what we sell, don't buy it. That doesn't mean we don't want your business.
Ones 2-3 years ago I bought some of your products you can guess 2 outfit slots for my Klingon toon and they are still not working. If I ever new that I never buy it and now I have 5 slots for outfit and can use only one.
No one ever try to fix the problem (dev says its hard one !! my TRIBBLE), I wrote god knows how many times about the bug nothing happens.
How can we call that ?
In the beginning there was all and then become nothing
I AM PISSED OFF AFTER 3 YRS. I STILL CAN'T USE OR CHANGE OR DELETE OUTFIT IN 3 OF 5 OUTFIT SLOTS ON MY KLINGON TOON !
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If those statements are gonna be like "Delta Rising is our greatest expansion ever. And the people love it!", then he need not bother, fas as I'm concerned.
anyhow I am gonna stop reading this crazy thread. Its just moved from the sublime to the ridiculous.
I think a big problem with Cryptic's communication (back when they still talked about their plans) was that they never told us when a plan didn't work out.
I'm fairly certain that most players would understand if they were told "Sorry, we had announced that we wanted to get feature XYZ into the game, but we ran into technical difficulties while implementing it / decided that something else was more important / (some other reason), so we had to postpone / cancel / modify it". But Cryptic never communicated those changes.
We were told (in July 2010) that PVP tournament queues and leaderboards were in development or already in testing - and then we never heard a single thing again about this topic from Cryptic.
We were told that there were possibly going to be 8-10 feature episode series (!) per year, so essentially almost a new episode every week - and again we never got a "sorry, change of plans" message. When Stahl left, it appeared that d'Angelo hadn't even heard of Stahl's FE series plan.
Sadly, I can't argue with any of that, except possibly the use of the word 'never'.
They have told us, many times over, when something wasn't technically feasible or practical or couldn't be fit into the schedule. But yes, they have not shouted these things from the rooftop and have been silent about a lot of other things.
Do we really expect them to make an announcement about what they're NOT doing, though? Major shifts in direction, possibly, such as the PvP and FE development you mentioned above. Those kinds of things they probably should talk about more.
But they're a business. Does the local supermarket hold a press release when they raise their prices or discontinue a product? No, they don't. I agree it's not quite the same thing, but it's not all that different either. They try to accentuate the positives and downplay the negatives like every other business.
If the forums weren't so toxic a lot of the time, we might get more of the kinds of explanations you're talking about. Too many people are way too quick to jump on a Dev's comments as an excuse to accuse. Complaining is fine. It's the "Attack Pattern Zulu" approach to responding to Devs that's a problem.
I am grateful to Tacofangs, Jheinig, zer0niusrex, Crypticfrost, Borticuscryptic, and the other Devs who show up on the forums more or less regularly and give it to us straight whenever they can. I do wish that Geko would show up here more often... but given his communication style maybe it's for the best if he doesn't. D'Angelo? I figure he figures that posting on the forums isn't his primary job function and I'd probably agree with him.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Ones 2-3 years ago I bought some of your products you can guess 2 outfit slots for my Klingon toon and they are still not working. If I ever new that I never buy it and now I have 5 slots for outfit and can use only one.
No one ever try to fix the problem (dev says its hard one !! my TRIBBLE), I wrote god knows how many times about the bug nothing happens.
How can we call that ?
I would call that 'win some, lose some'. For every long-standing bug in the game, I can point to two or more that have gotten fixed.
You represent a minority of a minority. This doesn't mean your issues should be dismissed or ignored, and quite to the contrary, I believe issues like yours should be at the forefront of bug fixing.
But in terms of the overall game, you are one of the people allowed to fall through the cracks.
At least you recognize your hypocrisy. There should be more people like that on the forums. I know I certainly recognize mine.
Can you guys perhaps take this little side-discussion to PM? It's off-topic and it's not helping the tone of the thread.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
If the forums weren't so toxic a lot of the time, we might get more of the kinds of explanations you're talking about. Too many people are way too quick to jump on a Dev's comments as an excuse to accuse. Complaining is fine. It's the "Attack Pattern Zulu" approach to responding to Devs that's a problem.
In a nutshell it's players' fault for not gobbling down everything quietly and gratefully, good to know.
Did it ever occur to you to ask why people, many of whom once were staunch supporters, became so toxic?
Oh sorry, volunteer moderator, of course it didn't.
Note that the "Most Successful Expansion Ever!" comment was something like a day after launch. And yes, at that moment, the day prior had been (at least one of) our biggest sales days ever. So yes, it was. Is it now, 6 weeks later? I don't know. But please stop trotting that line around as an example of "Cryptic Lying to us."
I'm noticing a distinct lack of chroniton in this post. :P
The snark in your last sentence was totally uncalled for. For starters, 'trotting that line around'?! It's probably the first time I mentioned it.
It's true, though, that I do not think D'Angelo has been very honest to us (recall Specgate?). Sorry if that upsets you.
I don't think he meant you specifically, even though it was your post that he was quoting. Lots of people have been trotting that out; yours just happened to be the most readily available one for him to cite.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Comments
I'm fairly certain that most players would understand if they were told "Sorry, we had announced that we wanted to get feature XYZ into the game, but we ran into technical difficulties while implementing it / decided that something else was more important / (some other reason), so we had to postpone / cancel / modify it". But Cryptic never communicated those changes.
We were told (in July 2010) that PVP tournament queues and leaderboards were in development or already in testing - and then we never heard a single thing again about this topic from Cryptic.
We were told that there were possibly going to be 8-10 feature episode series (!) per year, so essentially almost a new episode every week - and again we never got a "sorry, change of plans" message. When Stahl left, it appeared that d'Angelo hadn't even heard of Stahl's FE series plan.
Aren't we witty, care to elaborate or are you too busy trembling in righteous rage over the treatment poor devs are receiving?
Selfless martyrs who have to deal with mean forumgoers all the while selling 8 missions tacked to a huge game-changing grind as an expansion.
If it wasn't sad it would be funny.
I truly wish that statement had come from a Dev, askray... having the current progression acknowledged as working badly and that it could be fixed would be a wonderful thing.
Overall... taco at least comes on, braves the fires of the forums, to communicate openly and honestly with us. Of the devs, tacofangs is probably the best communicator, and he is one of the few that I really do believe are listening when we provide feedback (he's not the only one). Yes, there have got to be certain devs, related to certain aspects of the game, that aren't listening based on what we've seen of late... but all indications are that our environmental artist isn't one of them. It's easy to let frustration about some aspects of the game (progression, for example) make us want to criticize things they do in other aspects (environments, for example), but it's important to remember that one isn't necessarily related to another.
lol, if i knew all that was coming i'd buy my next sub in a 6month chunk
Question... Do you come with a dilithium buy now button? Unfortunately most people have been conditioned with instant gratification that can be solved with money.
Someday I hope to get a response before I hit the reply button just because posting is sooooooo tedious.
I'll believe your assertion as soon as you get me the logs from the server detailing player numbers and where they are. Oh, you don't have those? I don't either, but, then, I don't claim to speak for the majority, only claim that it *may* think differently from what the (again, 3% per Tacofangs) forum base does.
As far as cheerleaders, I'm no cheerleader. The game has flaws. My opinjon of the severity of said flaws may differ from yours. However, I don't like to waste my time whining about things I can't change. You seem to enjoy the activity, however.
I don't know. Some people in this world just need a good killing. And of course dependant entirely on who they targeted, might cause applause from some parts of the forums (and some parts of the world).
Of course, my personal feelings on which targets I would support being murdered are entirely irrelevant.
Just saying, that it is human nature to often support harm done to others who we believe deserve it. So, you would be technically correct... if Cryptic got away with murder, in the very literal sense of the term, people who did not like their target enough to encourage their demise would, perhaps, support them in that action.
No, you are just another preachy parrot rehashing PR.
Yes, they are all hiding under the pier on Risa instance #1, I need official data to confirm my observation and especially empty ques.
Totally agree, and some monkies deserve a good whipping because why soil your hands with such mongrels? For example those with veiled threats of physical violence on forums of a videogame, naturally I don't claim I know any.
Do you?
I know plenty of video games!
Note that the "Most Successful Expansion Ever!" comment was something like a day after launch. And yes, at that moment, the day prior had been (at least one of) our biggest sales days ever. So yes, it was. Is it now, 6 weeks later? I don't know. But please stop trotting that line around as an example of "Cryptic Lying to us."
OK, fair enough, thank you, and that couldn't be said before forums turned into Stalingrad?
I would like to point out that statement, among many other things, was one of the conflict focal points including bans and thread closures well within 6 weeks and after the launch.
While our views differ, you're absolutely right about the above. Every time I've appeared in court, the judge has listened to me, but he's never once done what I wanted him to, and dismissed the charges
it can't have been well after six weeks because six weeks ago it launched. Unless you're time traveling back from the future to have this conversation there's no way your timeline matches up.
OK, fixed, and the statement stands.
The snark in your last sentence was totally uncalled for. For starters, 'trotting that line around'?! It's probably the first time I mentioned it.
It's true, though, that I do not think D'Angelo has been very honest to us (recall Specgate?). Sorry if that upsets you.
i think all we want is game to work correctly. i understand all games have bugs and glitches, but sto seems to have more then its fair share and people react.
For myself, I wouldn't call it lying ... these things are for marketing and get written up based on data at the moment and can't reflect things that come up after they went out. I would, however, call it ironic that the comment hit just as fallout was starting to come down and people grabbed hold of it during the firestorms that followed.
My only real complaints about DR involve the handling of progression:
- the Delta Quadrant story arc is great, I love the work that went into it, but the start-stop progression is so jarring and uneven that it become more aggrivating than enjoyable.
- the new queue progression (normal > advanced > elite) is a fine idea and it was demonstrated early on that a pre-made group could handle Advanced with just a few tactical modifications. The problem is that you need good gear for the Advanced and higher runs but you can't get some of that without the rewards from the Advanced queues. It's an annoying Catch 22 situation.
so yes i believie him when he say:
but from customers side this looks like: empty queues, nerfs, more mad peps, less fun.
About new content:
- YOU GUYS JUST disable few patrols and drag it into new sector space,
- u create 2 elite mission (still bugged korfez, and ironic "bug" hunt)
- new difficulty is a joke (old missions/stf have only advanced lvl)
So this succesfull expansion overall imho is a lie - marketing lie, nothing else...
Now i know in 100% - this is time to leave this fake product.
Ones 2-3 years ago I bought some of your products you can guess 2 outfit slots for my Klingon toon and they are still not working. If I ever new that I never buy it and now I have 5 slots for outfit and can use only one.
No one ever try to fix the problem (dev says its hard one !! my TRIBBLE), I wrote god knows how many times about the bug nothing happens.
How can we call that ?
I AM PISSED OFF AFTER 3 YRS. I STILL CAN'T USE OR CHANGE OR DELETE OUTFIT IN 3 OF 5 OUTFIT SLOTS ON MY KLINGON TOON !
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
err did you read what you wrote? your pretty hard on people and are doing the same thing.
anyhow I am gonna stop reading this crazy thread. Its just moved from the sublime to the ridiculous.
Sadly, I can't argue with any of that, except possibly the use of the word 'never'.
They have told us, many times over, when something wasn't technically feasible or practical or couldn't be fit into the schedule. But yes, they have not shouted these things from the rooftop and have been silent about a lot of other things.
Do we really expect them to make an announcement about what they're NOT doing, though? Major shifts in direction, possibly, such as the PvP and FE development you mentioned above. Those kinds of things they probably should talk about more.
But they're a business. Does the local supermarket hold a press release when they raise their prices or discontinue a product? No, they don't. I agree it's not quite the same thing, but it's not all that different either. They try to accentuate the positives and downplay the negatives like every other business.
If the forums weren't so toxic a lot of the time, we might get more of the kinds of explanations you're talking about. Too many people are way too quick to jump on a Dev's comments as an excuse to accuse. Complaining is fine. It's the "Attack Pattern Zulu" approach to responding to Devs that's a problem.
I am grateful to Tacofangs, Jheinig, zer0niusrex, Crypticfrost, Borticuscryptic, and the other Devs who show up on the forums more or less regularly and give it to us straight whenever they can. I do wish that Geko would show up here more often... but given his communication style maybe it's for the best if he doesn't. D'Angelo? I figure he figures that posting on the forums isn't his primary job function and I'd probably agree with him.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I would call that 'win some, lose some'. For every long-standing bug in the game, I can point to two or more that have gotten fixed.
You represent a minority of a minority. This doesn't mean your issues should be dismissed or ignored, and quite to the contrary, I believe issues like yours should be at the forefront of bug fixing.
But in terms of the overall game, you are one of the people allowed to fall through the cracks.
I'm rather sarcastic when it involves D'Angelo, true. I wonder why (that too was sarcasm, btw)
At least you recognize your hypocrisy. There should be more people like that on the forums. I know I certainly recognize mine.
Can you guys perhaps take this little side-discussion to PM? It's off-topic and it's not helping the tone of the thread.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
In a nutshell it's players' fault for not gobbling down everything quietly and gratefully, good to know.
Did it ever occur to you to ask why people, many of whom once were staunch supporters, became so toxic?
Oh sorry, volunteer moderator, of course it didn't.
Is it hypocrisy to mistrust some Devs, and not others?! I hope not. For future reference, btw, I do not like Geko ether.
/10char
I'm noticing a distinct lack of chroniton in this post. :P
I don't think he meant you specifically, even though it was your post that he was quoting. Lots of people have been trotting that out; yours just happened to be the most readily available one for him to cite.
Joined January 2009