vegie0, I acknowledge that you are offended... but in that, you're believing that you were shown the door, when you never were in the first place, but continue to believe that you have The issue simply isn't with the statement Taco made
Yes, it is. He told me I was free to leave??? I am not of lesser mental capacity, I was aware of this. Telling me this is either ignorance, or was just blatently rude. Which would you have it?
I do not see simple mistakes in the Professional world. I see a Buisness Professional telling me what he thinks I should know. How to leave.
Yes, it is. He told me I was free to leave??? I am not of lesser mental capacity, I was aware of this. Telling me this is either ignorance, or was just blatently rude. Which would you have it?
I do not see simple mistakes in the Professional world. I see a Buisness Professional telling me what he thinks I should know. How to leave.
For the last time, it was a statement that we all know, and that needed repeating. It is a reality, and stating it is not telling us to leave, or to show us the door. And there is no good reason to take that statement to mean such.
It's not ignorant or rude; it's just what it is. Why not accept that and move on?
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
So while we, as customers, have the right to not use the service or products being offered by PWE/Cryptic as Tacofangs said, maybe PWE/Cryptic should read the following and try to use these everyday.
Ten Commandments of Great Customer Service
By Susan A. Friedmann
"1. Know who is boss. You are in business to service customer needs, and you can only do that if you know what it is your customers want. When you truly listen to your customers, they let you know what they want and how you can provide good service. Never forget that the customer pays our salary and makes your job possible.
2. Be a good listener. Take the time to identify customer needs by asking questions and concentrating on what the customer is really saying. Listen to their words, tone of voice, body language, and most importantly, how they feel. Beware of making assumptions - thinking you intuitively know what the customer wants.
Do you know what three things are most important to your customer?
3. Identify and anticipate needs. Customers don't buy products or services. They buy good feelings and solutions to problems. Most customer needs are emotional rather than logical. The more you know your customers, the better you become at anticipating their needs. Communicate regularly so that you are aware of problems or upcoming needs.
4. Make customers feel important and appreciated. Treat them as individuals. Always use their name and find ways to compliment them, but be sincere. People value sincerity. It creates good feeling and trust. Think about ways to generate good feelings about doing business with you. Customers are very sensitive and know whether or not you really care about them. Thank them every time you get a chance. On the show floor be sure that your body language conveys sincerity. Your words and actions should be congruent.
5. Help customers understand your systems. Your organization may have the world's best systems for getting things done, but if customers don't understand them, they can get confused, impatient and angry. Take time to explain how your systems work and how they simplify transactions. Be careful that your systems don't reduce the human element of your organization.
6. Appreciate the power of "Yes". Always look for ways to help your customers. When they have a request (as long as it is reasonable) tell them that you can do it. Figure out how afterwards. Look for ways to make doing business with you easy. Always do what you say you are going to do.
7. Know how to apologize. When something goes wrong, apologize. It's easy and customers like it. The customer may not always be right, but the customer must always win. Deal with problems immediately and let customers know what you have done. Make it simple for customers to complain. Value their complaints. As much as we dislike it, it gives us an opportunity to improve. Even if customers are having a bad day, go out of your way to make them feel comfortable.
8. Give more than expected. Since the future of all companies lies in keeping customers happy, think of ways to elevate yourself above the competition. Consider the following:
What can you give customers that they cannot get elsewhere?
What can you do to follow-up and thank people even when they don't buy?
What can you give customers that is totally unexpected?
9. Get regular feedback. Encourage and welcome suggestions about how you could improve. There are several ways in which you can find out what customers think and feel about your services.
Listen carefully to what they say.
Check back regularly to see how things are going.
Provide a method that invites constructive criticism, comments and suggestions.
10. Treat employees well. Employees are your internal customers and need a regular dose of appreciation. Thank them and find ways to let them know how important they are. Treat your employees with respect and chances are they will have a higher regard for customers. Appreciation stems from the top. Treating customers and employees well is equally important.
Customer service is an integral part of our job and should not be seen as an extension of it. A companys most vital asset is its customers. Without them, we would not and could not exist in business. When you satisfy our customers, they not only help us grow by continuing to do business with you, but recommend you to friends and associates."
Maybe the Customer relationship can be repaired. I don't know, but if the above is followed and used everyday by PWE/Cryptic, I think there is a chance.
Wow, I really missed the fun part of this thread already.
I should probably reiterate something, though.
There is a difference between Cryptic listening to feedback, and Cryptic acting on feedback.
Cryptic listens to most feedback, but they do not always act on that feedback. As STO players, we can provide feedback and make suggestions, but they are the creators and they will ultimately do what they are paid to do, which is create.
This is why I never expect or demand my feedback acted upon. I can make suggestions, I can produce facts and reality to Cryptic, I can provide anecdotal experiences. I can hope they act on it in a meaningful way which benefits my personal game experience.
But I don't bank on it. I don't gamble on it. I put nothing emotionally invested in my feedback, because I know the line between player and developer.
If Cryptic does not act on my feedback (which is oftentimes the case), I shrug it off and get over it. I might say I feel it's a bad call, a bad decision. But I recognize that they are not obligated to obey my every whim, and that I will often have differences of opinion with the developers and their decisions.
If I have a problem with STO? I speak up. I provide what is wrong. I provide why it is wrong. And I attempt to provide short-term and long-term solutions for that problem.
I can do all of this without resorting to slurs, ad hominem fallacies, calling for people to get fired, invoking Godwin's Law, or attacking the character of the people for or against my feedback.
If I can do it, anybody can. The fact is people choose not to. If they choose not to, then it is on their own heads, and Cryptic is not responsible for forcing players on the STO forums to regurgitate toxic vitriol.
Holy Hell Zues... good find for one, granted that type of Verbal Kung Fu is a bit above my capabilities but that is what this come to.
You were correct in posting it. We in my opinion are being treated as sub par members of the community. Were as the Developers it feels are making the game they want. As per Taco Fang's statement. They do what THEY feel is best.
Please see it from the side of those offended. You have closed threads for less offensive things.
FYI - I hate it when people add things into the quote it makes it annoying to reply too lol. But that's just my personal opinion.
(I dont think that is fair, the anger here is that we were told in no uncertain words where the door is to leave. We did not force him to make that statement. He did that of his own free will. Please see that this makes us upset, I am, and most of my friends are waiting for some kind of respons... Something... Anything to clarify that this is not what Cryptic believes.)
I cannot speak for anyone at Cryptic especially for Taco himself, however he was making his own opinion on the matter. Does he or anyone on the team WANT you to leave? Hell no! They want you to keep playing their product, keep making them money! :P But also, they truly do want to see you all enjoy this game. If you're not enjoying it, and if the dev's aren't making as much progress as you think they should then yes, leave for a bit. Take a break go play something else. That I honestly believe is what their opinion is. From Cryptic's dev team to their exec's to the PWE execs. However again, I cannot speak for anyone but myself in this matter.
(Yes your opinions are your own. How did you take his message? Can you honestly say it is not the smallest bit offensive?)
I re-read taco's post. I can see where people can take the message the way you have, and can feel offended by it. How I took it was if you're not happy with the game then stop playing. Again personal opinion but that's how i took it.
(We are not so much attacking, atleast I am not. I want an appology, as I see that I am owed one for being told to leave. That means no matter if I quit or not, I am not important enough to matter.)
Wasn't directed at you but more so a general statement so if you thought it was directed at you that's my bad.
Please see it from the side of those offended. You have closed threads for less offensive things.
I know but in this case we're trying to keep a conversation going. If Smirk wants to close it then he can, but i think a thread like this every now and then does a world of good
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Refresh my memory, that was before or after certain team changes?
I could have sworn there was a nice long lull between "Best Expansion Ever" and forums blowing up, apparently for no reason since it is so grand.
I think you are on fire duty as well, and I am not your "dude".
Oh don't worry, you can always quickly ban me if the discussion becomes too much.
You'd like that, wouldn't you? Banning you would only vindicate your opinion...
But the fact is, despite everything that's been said in this thread, it's still standing. No bannings, no infracations, no warnings even - not by Askray, or by the devs, which says something. I'd like it to stay that way, if everyone would agree
And besides, the dev tracker has always been active. Several posts a day, no posts for a day here and there, a lot of posts one day; it changes day by day, but it has been active more-or-less
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Wow, I really missed the fun part of this thread already.
I should probably reiterate something, though.
There is a difference between Cryptic listening to feedback, and Cryptic acting on feedback.
Cryptic listens to most feedback, but they do not always act on that feedback. As STO players, we can provide feedback and make suggestions, but they are the creators and they will ultimately do what they are paid to do, which is create.
This is why I never expect or demand my feedback acted upon. I can make suggestions, I can produce facts and reality to Cryptic, I can provide anecdotal experiences. I can hope they act on it in a meaningful way which benefits my personal game experience.
But I don't bank on it. I don't gamble on it. I put nothing emotionally invested in my feedback, because I know the line between player and developer.
If Cryptic does not act on my feedback (which is oftentimes the case), I shrug it off and get over it. I might say I feel it's a bad call, a bad decision. But I recognize that they are not obligated to obey my every whim, and that I will often have differences of opinion with the developers and their decisions.
If I have a problem with STO? I speak up. I provide what is wrong. I provide why it is wrong. And I attempt to provide short-term and long-term solutions for that problem.
I can do all of this without resorting to slurs, ad hominem fallacies, calling for people to get fired, invoking Godwin's Law, or attacking the character of the people for or against my feedback.
If I can do it, anybody can. The fact is people choose not to. If they choose not to, then it is on their own heads, and Cryptic is not responsible for forcing players on the STO forums to regurgitate toxic vitriol.
Go to Page 8 for the great parts. Where we get told to leave. That is where the meat and potatoes of this one is. Really surprised that the Developers have not responded yet.
Go to Page 8 for the great parts. Where we get told to leave. That is where the meat and potatoes of this one is. Really surprised that the Developers have not responded yet.
Which not everyone will see as being told to leave, as I've tried to say.
But anyway, yes, they make the game as they see fit; that's their job. Ours is to pay for it, and suggest things to change as a result of feedback, but what the devs do with that is up to them; we can't expect anything to be done just because we suggested it, or want it to be done
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Go to Page 8 for the great parts. Where we get told to leave. That is where the meat and potatoes of this one is. Really surprised that the Developers have not responded yet.
This is called quoting somebody out of context, and it is intellectually dishonest.
Mr. Duguid is a good guy who speaks quite honestly and truthfully, which is what the STO forums need more of.
Quoting devs out of context does not help anything, and if anything only encourages them to say less, for fear of being quoted out of context to provide whatever narrative somebody wants.
So please, stop quoting people at PWE/Cryptic out of context.
If by associates you mean Askray, he is a community moderator; he doesn't work for Cryptic, or is even paid to do what he does
For the last time, it was a statement that we all know, and that needed repeating. It is a reality, and stating it is not telling us to leave, or to show us the door. And there is no good reason to take that statement to mean such.
It's not ignorant or rude; it's just what it is. Why not accept that and move on?
Is he a community moderator? Do you feel as if he is still truly part of the community? If you ask me, he's been a moderator so long he isn't really anymore. Neither Cryptic nor community at this point, but nearer to Cryptic. To be honest I'm amazed he still bothers, Cryptic doesn't pay him, most of the community doesn't appreciate what he does at all. Then there's the fact some of our community moderators actually don't mind to do some flaming of the community on their own, although that is something I've witnessed more from Bluegeek then Askray. Though Askray's dealings with the PvP subthreads haven't been that wonderfull...
Regardless, I don't think the community mods need more power as someone suggested, instead they need less. If Cryptic want's the forums moderated more then they are now, they should hire someone if smirk can't handle it on his own. Or get some additional volunteer mods. Not give the current ones more power. Power corrupts, and the current ones have been in power for far too long already...
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
If by associates you mean Askray, he is a community moderator; he doesn't work for Cryptic, or is even paid to do what he does
[\QUOTE]
And hence the work associate, as one who associates with, instead of employee. Yes Askray is an associate of cryptic, he was given moderator superpowers by cryptic.
Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
You'd like that, wouldn't you? Banning you would only vindicate your opinion...
But the fact is, despite everything that's been said in this thread, it's still standing. No bannings, no infracations, no warnings even - not by Askray, or by the devs, which says something. I'd like it to stay that way, if everyone would agree
And besides, the dev tracker has always been active. Several posts a day, no posts for a day here and there, a lot of posts one day; it changes day by day, but it has been active more-or-less
You do know the difference between a two-way communication and one-way information?
Should I remind you of that wonderful Tau Dewa "exploit" incident?
Cryptic, Smirk & Taco's jolly comrades, at its best.
Oh and btw, we can argue here until we are all blue in the face, game is empty and getting emptier but do go on. I am sure you will find some excuse claiming how it isn't so, everything is booming.
FYI - I hate it when people add things into the quote it makes it annoying to reply too lol. But that's just my personal opinion.
I cannot speak for anyone at Cryptic especially for Taco himself, however he was making his own opinion on the matter. Does he or anyone on the team WANT you to leave? Hell no! They want you to keep playing their product, keep making them money! :P But also, they truly do want to see you all enjoy this game. If you're not enjoying it, and if the dev's aren't making as much progress as you think they should then yes, leave for a bit. Take a break go play something else. That I honestly believe is what their opinion is. From Cryptic's dev team to their exec's to the PWE execs. However again, I cannot speak for anyone but myself in this matter.
I re-read taco's post. I can see where people can take the message the way you have, and can feel offended by it. How I took it was if you're not happy with the game then stop playing. Again personal opinion but that's how i took it.
Easier responses now, but the over all meaning is that if I am not happy, I may leave.
I am a logic based person and I base my understanding of his message based on it's context. He in this states changes will happen as the team sees fit. Great, what about if changes are not happening? Then get lost. We do not need you. He mentioned it TWICE. That hurts, it makes people like me see that he saw that us leaving was not just a one time mentioning thing, and his opinion while using that company sponsored account is the company opinion. Until redacted he does speak for them, while he uses that Tag.
Do I want him fired? HELL NO. I believe he should either Clarify, or Apologize. It shouldnt take that long. But the statement shows us, it really does, that we are not important. That hurt, I was going to quit until change came. But now I do not see indications of the game changing. Or that the game would welcome me back.
If by associates you mean Askray, he is a community moderator; he doesn't work for Cryptic, or is even paid to do what he does
[\QUOTE]
And hence the work associate, as one who associates with, instead of employee. Yes Askray is an associate of cryptic, he was given moderator superpowers by cryptic.
Just because he was given them by Cryptic does not mean he does everything for their benefit... and like I said, he's not paid to do this work, but he does so anyway. To me that speaks to his commitment, but not to Cryptic
You do know the difference between a two-way communication and one-way information?
Should I remind you of that wonderful Tau Dewa "exploit" incident?
Cryptic, Smirk & Taco's jolly comrades, at its best.
Oh and btw, we can argue here until we are all blue in the face, game is empty and getting emptier but do go on. I am sure you will find some excuse claiming how it isn't so, everything is booming.
Of course I know the difference, and what we've been arguing isn't either, but in-between the two
And yes, there have been incidents, and I never claimed things were booming. I never said anything to that evidence, and I don't claim to now, but people are still playing the game - and I play for hours across characters, so I speak from experience, not wishful thinking
Do I want him fired? HELL NO. I believe he should either Clarify, or Apologize. It shouldnt take that long. But the statement shows us, it really does, that we are not important. That hurt
I think vegie0, due to your anger, you only saw what you wanted to see (that you were being shown the door) - and due to that hurt, you can't see it any other way Some of us haven't regarded it that way, or even thought that was his intended message - just the statement that it was, accepted it, and moved on
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
This is called quoting somebody out of context, and it is intellectually dishonest.
Mr. Duguid is a good guy who speaks quite honestly and truthfully, which is what the STO forums need more of.
Quoting devs out of context does not help anything, and if anything only encourages them to say less, for fear of being quoted out of context to provide whatever narrative somebody wants.
So please, stop quoting people at PWE/Cryptic out of context.
Not quoting them out of context. Read his post... HIS post. READ what Taco Fangs wrote. You can put it into context there. He tells us in no uncertain terms... TWICE, that we are free to leave. That hurts. Even somebody like me feels that sting.
Is he a community moderator? Do you feel as if he is still truly part of the community? If you ask me, he's been a moderator so long he isn't really anymore. Neither Cryptic nor community at this point, but nearer to Cryptic. To be honest I'm amazed he still bothers, Cryptic doesn't pay him, most of the community doesn't appreciate what he does at all. Then there's the fact some of our community moderators actually don't mind to do some flaming of the community on their own, although that is something I've witnessed more from Bluegeek then Askray. Though Askray's dealings with the PvP subthreads haven't been that wonderfull...
Regardless, I don't think the community mods need more power as someone suggested, instead they need less. If Cryptic want's the forums moderated more then they are now, they should hire someone if smirk can't handle it on his own. Or get some additional volunteer mods. Not give the current ones more power. Power corrupts, and the current ones have been in power for far too long already...
So this begs an interesting question, if he is volunteer and not paid and generally disliked for it why is he doing it?
Nobody does stuff like this without some sort of compensation.
Me, I think he gets his ego shots from it, naturally he can now ban me for discussing the moderator
Easier responses now, but the over all meaning is that if I am not happy, I may leave.
I am a logic based person and I base my understanding of his message based on it's context.
The context is this, plain and simple.
"We listen to your feedback, we record it, and we send it to the appropriate people. It is not always acted upon, but that is the industry. But, if you don't like the product, you are free to stop using it."
What he provides is a simple reality check. He isn't telling anybody to leave. He's saying that we can provide suggestions and constructive criticism to make a better game for everybody, and that they do make an effort to cater to the playerbase, but they must also be free to create their own game.
If people feel that strongly about their feedback not being acted upon, they can always just leave, but it does no help to inject venom into the forums when you can just as easily keep providing feedback.
That goes double for people who quote devs out of context to support and fabricate their own narrative.
"We listen to your feedback, we record it, and we send it to the appropriate people. It is not always acted upon, but that is the industry. But, if you don't like the product, you are free to stop using it."
What he provides is a simple reality check. He isn't telling anybody to leave. He's saying that we can provide suggestions and constructive criticism to make a better game for everybody, and that they do make an effort to cater to the playerbase, but they must also be free to create their own game.
If people feel that strongly about their feedback not being acted upon, they can always just leave, but it does no help to inject venom into the forums when you can just as easily keep providing feedback.
That goes double for people who quote devs out of context to support and fabricate their own narrative.
Do you really believe any of us had trouble realizing that we could leave? Do you believe he did? Come on.
So this begs an interesting question, if he is volunteer and not paid and generally disliked for it why is he doing it?
Nobody does stuff like this without some sort of compensation.
Me, I think he gets his ego shots from it, naturally he can now ban me for discussing the moderator
LOL!! Like I said, I've moderated other places, so "ego" shots have no bearing on it.
I do this because it has to be done. It's something I know how to do so I do it. Plain and simple. I've spoken against cryptic, I've spoken in defense of cryptic. But apparently people seem to only remember me speaking in defense of them... oh well.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Do you really believe any of us had trouble realizing that we could leave? Do you believe he did? Come on.
To be perfectly honest? Yes.
So many people in the STO forums have lost their grip on reality that what I think he was saying was a reminder that nobody is being forced here at gunpoint, so if they aren't, why do they need to be so toxic?
They don't need to be toxic. It helps nobody.
No, what I see is people getting butthurt over the fact that someone decided to put some reality into the equation -- as they always seem to do, and decide to accuse the people of talking down to them, or being condescending, or whatever for the unpleasant reminder that what they are doing is juvenile.
And if you need to quote a dev out of context like you have been doing, then yes, I think he is 100% justifiable in providing that reality check.
"We listen to your feedback, we record it, and we send it to the appropriate people. It is not always acted upon, but that is the industry. But, if you don't like the product, you are free to stop using it."
What he provides is a simple reality check. He isn't telling anybody to leave. He's saying that we can provide suggestions and constructive criticism to make a better game for everybody, and that they do make an effort to cater to the playerbase, but they must also be free to create their own game.
If people feel that strongly about their feedback not being acted upon, they can always just leave, but it does no help to inject venom into the forums when you can just as easily keep providing feedback.
That goes double for people who quote devs out of context to support and fabricate their own narrative.
I took it as more of not really caring if we left. Something like "you can talk, we'll do what we want, and if you don't like it don't let the door hit you in the TRIBBLE on the way out".
Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
Please guys keep it civil, how many threads have you seen lately where Smirk has responded in, or any of them as much as this one in a long time?
You have their ear here, which was the point, they are indeed listening, be constructive and they may even listen more, continue getting upset and going overboard and it will simply cause a traffic accident that probably is indeed waiting to happen.
We do indeed want to be heard and they are indeed listening.
No, you don't. Pre-DR the team of devs were told about many bugs of the game. Your company had two months to fix things and didn't do a blasted thing about it. Here we are in November and still things are not getting done. Just more nerfs to the game. How many more times is PWE going to lie like this? You are just making matters worse and p*****g more people off.
So many people in the STO forums have lost their grip on reality that what I think he was saying was a reminder that nobody is being forced here at gunpoint, so if they aren't, why do they need to be so toxic?
They don't need to be toxic. It helps nobody.
No, what I see is people getting butthurt over the fact that someone decided to put some reality into the equation -- as they always seem to do, and decide to accuse the people of talking down to them, or being condescending, or whatever for the unpleasant reminder that what they are doing is juvenile.
And if you need to quote a dev out of context like you have been doing, then yes, I think he is 100% justifiable in providing that reality check.
Now you say I am taking it out of context? But you have to read HIS words... what did I make him type it? NO, clearly you are educated enough to know I did not. He stated a reality, to a knowlege based community. He insulted us either by telling us we are too Stupid to know how to leave, or that we are so uninportant that we should leave, as we will not be missed. I have put his words into context many times. He stated what he wants. Us to leave.
No, you don't. Pre-DR the team of devs were told about many bugs of the game. Your company had two months to fix things and didn't do a blasted thing about it. Here we are in November and still things are not getting done. Just more nerfs to the game. How many more times is PWE going to lie like this? You are just making matters worse and p*****g more people off.
You do realize stating issues like this isn't gonna help anyone, right? It needs to be civil, and reasonably stated, no matter what our personal feelings, or no one gets anywhere
And yes, getting a little anywhere is better than none at all
Im not the only one hurting over it. It is clearly not imagined if others are involved in my delusion...
Now you say I am taking it out of context? But you have to read HIS words... what did I make him type it? NO, clearly you are educated enough to know I did not. He stated a reality, to a knowlege based community. He insulted us either by telling us we are too Stupid to know how to leave, or that we are so uninportant that we should leave, as we will not be missed. I have put his words into context many times. He stated what he wants. Us to leave.
The few others in this thread? Sure, but you're still missing the point; no insult was intended, and you continue to be intractable in feeling hurt over it, refusing to see reason that it was not as such
You're not moving forward, just being stubborn and unreasonable in your hurt
Plus, you're also missing the point that not everyone sees his words as 'leave', but you don't see that
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
He stated a reality, to a knowlege based community
a knowlege based community
I think the jury is still out on this 'fact'. Have you seen some of the lunacy people 'opinionize' in the STO forums? I can go through 5 random threads right now and point out what is blatant proof of people who do not live in the real world.
Comments
Yes, it is. He told me I was free to leave??? I am not of lesser mental capacity, I was aware of this. Telling me this is either ignorance, or was just blatently rude. Which would you have it?
I do not see simple mistakes in the Professional world. I see a Buisness Professional telling me what he thinks I should know. How to leave.
It's not ignorant or rude; it's just what it is. Why not accept that and move on?
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Ten Commandments of Great Customer Service
By Susan A. Friedmann
"1. Know who is boss. You are in business to service customer needs, and you can only do that if you know what it is your customers want. When you truly listen to your customers, they let you know what they want and how you can provide good service. Never forget that the customer pays our salary and makes your job possible.
2. Be a good listener. Take the time to identify customer needs by asking questions and concentrating on what the customer is really saying. Listen to their words, tone of voice, body language, and most importantly, how they feel. Beware of making assumptions - thinking you intuitively know what the customer wants.
Do you know what three things are most important to your customer?
3. Identify and anticipate needs. Customers don't buy products or services. They buy good feelings and solutions to problems. Most customer needs are emotional rather than logical. The more you know your customers, the better you become at anticipating their needs. Communicate regularly so that you are aware of problems or upcoming needs.
4. Make customers feel important and appreciated. Treat them as individuals. Always use their name and find ways to compliment them, but be sincere. People value sincerity. It creates good feeling and trust. Think about ways to generate good feelings about doing business with you. Customers are very sensitive and know whether or not you really care about them. Thank them every time you get a chance. On the show floor be sure that your body language conveys sincerity. Your words and actions should be congruent.
5. Help customers understand your systems. Your organization may have the world's best systems for getting things done, but if customers don't understand them, they can get confused, impatient and angry. Take time to explain how your systems work and how they simplify transactions. Be careful that your systems don't reduce the human element of your organization.
6. Appreciate the power of "Yes". Always look for ways to help your customers. When they have a request (as long as it is reasonable) tell them that you can do it. Figure out how afterwards. Look for ways to make doing business with you easy. Always do what you say you are going to do.
7. Know how to apologize. When something goes wrong, apologize. It's easy and customers like it. The customer may not always be right, but the customer must always win. Deal with problems immediately and let customers know what you have done. Make it simple for customers to complain. Value their complaints. As much as we dislike it, it gives us an opportunity to improve. Even if customers are having a bad day, go out of your way to make them feel comfortable.
8. Give more than expected. Since the future of all companies lies in keeping customers happy, think of ways to elevate yourself above the competition. Consider the following:
What can you give customers that they cannot get elsewhere?
What can you do to follow-up and thank people even when they don't buy?
What can you give customers that is totally unexpected?
9. Get regular feedback. Encourage and welcome suggestions about how you could improve. There are several ways in which you can find out what customers think and feel about your services.
Listen carefully to what they say.
Check back regularly to see how things are going.
Provide a method that invites constructive criticism, comments and suggestions.
10. Treat employees well. Employees are your internal customers and need a regular dose of appreciation. Thank them and find ways to let them know how important they are. Treat your employees with respect and chances are they will have a higher regard for customers. Appreciation stems from the top. Treating customers and employees well is equally important.
Customer service is an integral part of our job and should not be seen as an extension of it. A companys most vital asset is its customers. Without them, we would not and could not exist in business. When you satisfy our customers, they not only help us grow by continuing to do business with you, but recommend you to friends and associates."
Maybe the Customer relationship can be repaired. I don't know, but if the above is followed and used everyday by PWE/Cryptic, I think there is a chance.
Zeus
Refresh my memory, that was before or after certain team changes?
I could have sworn there was a nice long lull between "Best Expansion Ever" and forums blowing up, apparently for no reason since it is so grand.
I think you are on fire duty as well, and I am not your "dude".
Oh don't worry, you can always quickly ban me if the discussion becomes too much.
I should probably reiterate something, though.
There is a difference between Cryptic listening to feedback, and Cryptic acting on feedback.
Cryptic listens to most feedback, but they do not always act on that feedback. As STO players, we can provide feedback and make suggestions, but they are the creators and they will ultimately do what they are paid to do, which is create.
This is why I never expect or demand my feedback acted upon. I can make suggestions, I can produce facts and reality to Cryptic, I can provide anecdotal experiences. I can hope they act on it in a meaningful way which benefits my personal game experience.
But I don't bank on it. I don't gamble on it. I put nothing emotionally invested in my feedback, because I know the line between player and developer.
If Cryptic does not act on my feedback (which is oftentimes the case), I shrug it off and get over it. I might say I feel it's a bad call, a bad decision. But I recognize that they are not obligated to obey my every whim, and that I will often have differences of opinion with the developers and their decisions.
If I have a problem with STO? I speak up. I provide what is wrong. I provide why it is wrong. And I attempt to provide short-term and long-term solutions for that problem.
I can do all of this without resorting to slurs, ad hominem fallacies, calling for people to get fired, invoking Godwin's Law, or attacking the character of the people for or against my feedback.
If I can do it, anybody can. The fact is people choose not to. If they choose not to, then it is on their own heads, and Cryptic is not responsible for forcing players on the STO forums to regurgitate toxic vitriol.
You were correct in posting it. We in my opinion are being treated as sub par members of the community. Were as the Developers it feels are making the game they want. As per Taco Fang's statement. They do what THEY feel is best.
I cannot speak for anyone at Cryptic especially for Taco himself, however he was making his own opinion on the matter. Does he or anyone on the team WANT you to leave? Hell no! They want you to keep playing their product, keep making them money! :P But also, they truly do want to see you all enjoy this game. If you're not enjoying it, and if the dev's aren't making as much progress as you think they should then yes, leave for a bit. Take a break go play something else. That I honestly believe is what their opinion is. From Cryptic's dev team to their exec's to the PWE execs. However again, I cannot speak for anyone but myself in this matter.
I re-read taco's post. I can see where people can take the message the way you have, and can feel offended by it. How I took it was if you're not happy with the game then stop playing. Again personal opinion but that's how i took it.
Wasn't directed at you but more so a general statement so if you thought it was directed at you that's my bad.
I know but in this case we're trying to keep a conversation going. If Smirk wants to close it then he can, but i think a thread like this every now and then does a world of good
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
But the fact is, despite everything that's been said in this thread, it's still standing. No bannings, no infracations, no warnings even - not by Askray, or by the devs, which says something. I'd like it to stay that way, if everyone would agree
And besides, the dev tracker has always been active. Several posts a day, no posts for a day here and there, a lot of posts one day; it changes day by day, but it has been active more-or-less
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Go to Page 8 for the great parts. Where we get told to leave. That is where the meat and potatoes of this one is. Really surprised that the Developers have not responded yet.
But anyway, yes, they make the game as they see fit; that's their job. Ours is to pay for it, and suggest things to change as a result of feedback, but what the devs do with that is up to them; we can't expect anything to be done just because we suggested it, or want it to be done
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
This is called quoting somebody out of context, and it is intellectually dishonest.
Mr. Duguid is a good guy who speaks quite honestly and truthfully, which is what the STO forums need more of.
Quoting devs out of context does not help anything, and if anything only encourages them to say less, for fear of being quoted out of context to provide whatever narrative somebody wants.
So please, stop quoting people at PWE/Cryptic out of context.
Is he a community moderator? Do you feel as if he is still truly part of the community? If you ask me, he's been a moderator so long he isn't really anymore. Neither Cryptic nor community at this point, but nearer to Cryptic. To be honest I'm amazed he still bothers, Cryptic doesn't pay him, most of the community doesn't appreciate what he does at all. Then there's the fact some of our community moderators actually don't mind to do some flaming of the community on their own, although that is something I've witnessed more from Bluegeek then Askray. Though Askray's dealings with the PvP subthreads haven't been that wonderfull...
Regardless, I don't think the community mods need more power as someone suggested, instead they need less. If Cryptic want's the forums moderated more then they are now, they should hire someone if smirk can't handle it on his own. Or get some additional volunteer mods. Not give the current ones more power. Power corrupts, and the current ones have been in power for far too long already...
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... and when all players are gone they will say something like "people are not that much interested in star trek anymore" or something like that
You do know the difference between a two-way communication and one-way information?
Should I remind you of that wonderful Tau Dewa "exploit" incident?
Cryptic, Smirk & Taco's jolly comrades, at its best.
Oh and btw, we can argue here until we are all blue in the face, game is empty and getting emptier but do go on. I am sure you will find some excuse claiming how it isn't so, everything is booming.
Easier responses now, but the over all meaning is that if I am not happy, I may leave.
I am a logic based person and I base my understanding of his message based on it's context. He in this states changes will happen as the team sees fit. Great, what about if changes are not happening? Then get lost. We do not need you. He mentioned it TWICE. That hurts, it makes people like me see that he saw that us leaving was not just a one time mentioning thing, and his opinion while using that company sponsored account is the company opinion. Until redacted he does speak for them, while he uses that Tag.
Do I want him fired? HELL NO. I believe he should either Clarify, or Apologize. It shouldnt take that long. But the statement shows us, it really does, that we are not important. That hurt, I was going to quit until change came. But now I do not see indications of the game changing. Or that the game would welcome me back.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Not quoting them out of context. Read his post... HIS post. READ what Taco Fangs wrote. You can put it into context there. He tells us in no uncertain terms... TWICE, that we are free to leave. That hurts. Even somebody like me feels that sting.
So this begs an interesting question, if he is volunteer and not paid and generally disliked for it why is he doing it?
Nobody does stuff like this without some sort of compensation.
Me, I think he gets his ego shots from it, naturally he can now ban me for discussing the moderator
The context is this, plain and simple.
"We listen to your feedback, we record it, and we send it to the appropriate people. It is not always acted upon, but that is the industry. But, if you don't like the product, you are free to stop using it."
What he provides is a simple reality check. He isn't telling anybody to leave. He's saying that we can provide suggestions and constructive criticism to make a better game for everybody, and that they do make an effort to cater to the playerbase, but they must also be free to create their own game.
If people feel that strongly about their feedback not being acted upon, they can always just leave, but it does no help to inject venom into the forums when you can just as easily keep providing feedback.
That goes double for people who quote devs out of context to support and fabricate their own narrative.
Do you really believe any of us had trouble realizing that we could leave? Do you believe he did? Come on.
I do this because it has to be done. It's something I know how to do so I do it. Plain and simple. I've spoken against cryptic, I've spoken in defense of cryptic. But apparently people seem to only remember me speaking in defense of them... oh well.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Restating something we already know is not an insult imo - and there's no need for you to feel hurt over an imagined insult
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
To be perfectly honest? Yes.
So many people in the STO forums have lost their grip on reality that what I think he was saying was a reminder that nobody is being forced here at gunpoint, so if they aren't, why do they need to be so toxic?
They don't need to be toxic. It helps nobody.
No, what I see is people getting butthurt over the fact that someone decided to put some reality into the equation -- as they always seem to do, and decide to accuse the people of talking down to them, or being condescending, or whatever for the unpleasant reminder that what they are doing is juvenile.
And if you need to quote a dev out of context like you have been doing, then yes, I think he is 100% justifiable in providing that reality check.
I took it as more of not really caring if we left. Something like "you can talk, we'll do what we want, and if you don't like it don't let the door hit you in the TRIBBLE on the way out".
You have their ear here, which was the point, they are indeed listening, be constructive and they may even listen more, continue getting upset and going overboard and it will simply cause a traffic accident that probably is indeed waiting to happen.
We do indeed want to be heard and they are indeed listening.
No, you don't. Pre-DR the team of devs were told about many bugs of the game. Your company had two months to fix things and didn't do a blasted thing about it. Here we are in November and still things are not getting done. Just more nerfs to the game. How many more times is PWE going to lie like this? You are just making matters worse and p*****g more people off.
Im not the only one hurting over it. It is clearly not imagined if others are involved in my delusion...
Now you say I am taking it out of context? But you have to read HIS words... what did I make him type it? NO, clearly you are educated enough to know I did not. He stated a reality, to a knowlege based community. He insulted us either by telling us we are too Stupid to know how to leave, or that we are so uninportant that we should leave, as we will not be missed. I have put his words into context many times. He stated what he wants. Us to leave.
And yes, getting a little anywhere is better than none at all The few others in this thread? Sure, but you're still missing the point; no insult was intended, and you continue to be intractable in feeling hurt over it, refusing to see reason that it was not as such
You're not moving forward, just being stubborn and unreasonable in your hurt
Plus, you're also missing the point that not everyone sees his words as 'leave', but you don't see that
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I think the jury is still out on this 'fact'. Have you seen some of the lunacy people 'opinionize' in the STO forums? I can go through 5 random threads right now and point out what is blatant proof of people who do not live in the real world.