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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    He stated a reality, to a knowlege based community

    a knowlege based community

    I think the jury is still out on this 'fact'. Have you seen some of the lunacy people 'opinionize' in the STO forums? I can go through 5 random threads right now and point out what is blatant proof of people who do not live in the real world.
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  • vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    I think the jury is still out on this 'fact'.

    Well you are insulting the community, a dangerous line... I smell an incomming censor/possible ban. Insulting people is not allowed...

    Quick, into my Anti-Ban Bunker... Before they see it D:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    Well you are insulting the community, a dangerous line... I smell an incomming censor/possible ban. Insulting people is not allowed...

    Quick, into my Anti-Ban Bunker... Before they see it D:

    Pointing out reality isn't a bannable offense. The fact is there are posters here on the forums who need a reality check, they're just too embarassed to admit it.

    And they prefer to take it out on the people providing the reality check instead of looking on what they write and reflect on the possibility that maybe they could have said something better -- or not said it at all.

    If the STO forums were a knowledge based community, my post count would perpetually be at 0 and I would never speak on these forums ever.
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  • stonelokistoneloki Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    What Taco said was indeed Justified, playing this game is a choice, its not something we are held at gunpoint and told to do. People wanna walk away its going to happen, and if its that trivial for them in the first place then what has been lost?

    We all want 1 thing, for this game to be enjoyable, many can post and say they are not, but by the posts in this thread they see things aren't as they should and are working on ALL of it.

    Askray said Smirk has things cooking, and changes are coming down the line, I'm not going anywhere, and anyone who wants to take their ball and go home that's their choice.

    I would never get into an argument here about defending the team at Cryptic, cause I don't, but they have responded here and given us the answer that they are indeed listening, what happens now? The ball is in their court, that simple. They can take the advice people are giving them or not, but atleast EVERYONE here knows they are indeed listening to that advice.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    Not quoting them out of context. Read his post... HIS post. READ what Taco Fangs wrote. You can put it into context there. He tells us in no uncertain terms... TWICE, that we are free to leave. That hurts. Even somebody like me feels that sting.

    And someone like me doesn't feel the sting at all. Primarily because there isn't one. :)

    N.B. Not at you specifically, but it's kinda of funny, that when I'm not invested in the issue myself, I can so readily see how over-the-top and petulant some posts vs. Cryptic are. :P I mean, seriously, all this ranting at Taco, ALL of it, just looks like 'trying to find fault at all cost' to me, ad absurdum. And that is actually kinda sad, because, when the time comes for a real complaint, they'll take us yet a little less serious again because of it.
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  • vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    Pointing out reality isn't a bannable offense. The fact is there are posters here on the forums who need a reality check, they're just too embarassed to admit it.

    And they prefer to take it out on the people providing the reality check instead of looking on what they write and reflect on the possibility that maybe they could have said something better -- or not said it at all.

    If the STO forums were a knowledge based community, my post count would perpetually be at 0 and I would never speak on these forums ever.

    Cant tell if Troll or not. But im done arguing this with you. You are walking a line to get this thread closed due to you flaming it by insulting others. Stop... Seriously, some of us are trying to get a response to an insult. You insulting us could get this closed and no resolution.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • giveroffacialsgiveroffacials Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    aoax10 wrote: »
    No, you don't. Pre-DR the team of devs were told about many bugs of the game. Your company had two months to fix things and didn't do a blasted thing about it. Here we are in November and still things are not getting done. Just more nerfs to the game. How many more times is PWE going to lie like this? You are just making matters worse and p*****g more people off.

    I have to say from the outside at least, it does appear NERFS are taking priority over bug fixes. NERFS are showing up weekly, multiple times weekly and game rending bugs are still not fixed. I don"t know anything about cryptic/PWE internally, so I can't comment on what's really going on, but it certainly doesn't seem like enough or good enough people are working on fixes.
    Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    Cant tell if Troll or not. But im done arguing this with you. You are walking a line to get this thread closed due to you flaming it by insulting others. Stop... Seriously, some of us are trying to get a response to an insult. You insulting us could get this closed and no resolution.
    Absolutely nothing he said was flaming or insulting (or anything remotely bad, unless a reality check is one), despite you seeing it as such... and besides, no ones gotten warnings yet, so we're not even that close yet

    Plus, falling low enough to call him a Troll (the first time the word's been thrown around far as I know) doesn't reflect well on you, not him. I wish you'd see how you're sounding right now :(
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    And someone like me doesn't feel the sting at all. Primarily because there isn't one. :)

    N.B. Not at you specifically, but it's kinda of funny, that when I'm not invested in the issue myself, I can so readily see how over-the-top and petulant some posts vs. Cryptic are. :P I mean, seriously, all this ranting at Taco, ALL of it, just looks like 'trying to find fault at all cost' to me, ad absurdum. And that is actually kinda sad, because, when the time comes for a real complaint, they'll take us yet a little less serious again because of it.

    You are free to leave the game too. His statement was very braud and clear. Doesnt bother you one bit they he never once said you should stay? Never once did he say he wants us here. If we dont like what they did... Get OUT... Come on, you can only defend that so much. You cant speak for him either. He did throw down the gauntlet... He needs to either pick it up and clarify or apologize, its that simple.

    Two words, I'm Sorry... Granted one is a Contraction but still....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    Cant tell if Troll or not. But im done arguing this with you. You are walking a line to get this thread closed due to you flaming it by insulting others. Stop... Seriously, some of us are trying to get a response to an insult. You insulting us could get this closed and no resolution.

    I'm not saying specific names or specific posts. I'm not naming and shaming anybody, except perhaps you for quoting a dev out of context.

    But reality is what it is, and Tacofangs was doing this thread a favor by reminding people what it consists of in terms of the game.

    He wasn't telling anybody to leave anymore than I am saying grass isn't green by pointing out that the sky is blue.
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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    Try to see it from our end. We can try yours. He did wrong. I simply want him to clarify that we do matter. And that they do NOT want us to leave.

    Players do matter. I do not want Players to leave.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
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  • stonelokistoneloki Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    You are free to leave the game too. His statement was very braud and clear. Doesnt bother you one bit they he never once said you should stay? Never once did he say he wants us here. If we dont like what they did... Get OUT... Come on, you can only defend that so much. You cant speak for him either. He did throw down the gauntlet... He needs to either pick it up and clarify or apologize, its that simple.

    Two words, I'm Sorry... Granted one is a Contraction but still....

    He didn't say anything anyone else wouldn't have said. Again no one is holding anyone at gunpoint, if your gonna leave your gonna leave nothing anyone can or will do to stop you its your choice not anyone elses.
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  • vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    trek21 wrote: »
    Absolutely nothing he said was flaming or insulting (or anything remotely bad, unless a reality check is one), despite you seeing it as such... and besides, no ones gotten warnings yet, so we're not even that close yet

    Plus, falling low enough to call him a Troll (the first time the word's been thrown around far as I know) doesn't reflect well on you, not him

    He called the Community Dissociated morons.

    We are not connected to Reality?

    We are not intelligent?

    Insults... This time, actually the work of "Iconians"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    He called the Community Dissociated morons.

    We are not connected to Reality?

    We are not intelligent?

    Insults... This time, actually the work of "Iconians"
    He did not say morons, and he said some do not seem to be living with reality, just their own views - that is not an insult, just an observation

    Edit; no need for that last part anymore
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • stonelokistoneloki Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Players do matter. I do not want Players to leave.

    Bravo man your a straight shooter if there ever was one! :cool:
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  • vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Players do matter. I do not want Players to leave.

    This right here is enough for me to let it go. No amount of the defence of others would have made a difference, but you stood up to clarify it. Kudos to you. Please Re word statements like that.

    We dont need a door. A lot of us may get frustrated and want to quit. But we love this game. And your statement could be taken the wrong way.

    Thank you however for posting. Your bravery in walking into this Minefield is noted. Good on you. And Thank You again from a very Big Nerdy Trekie D:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    He called the Community Dissociated morons.

    We are not connected to Reality?

    We are not intelligent?

    Insults... This time, actually the work of "Iconians"

    I said some people. I never said everybody. I don't make such absolutions or generalizations unless necessary, and certainly not in the context of things like that.

    I also never said people weren't intelligent.

    Now you're quoting me out of context and exaggerating what I said. Although truth be told I would rather people spread misinformation about my opinions than someone at Cryptic's. Because I really don't care about my reputation.
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  • swatopswatop Member Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    trek21 wrote: »
    You do realize stating issues like this isn't gonna help anyone, right? It needs to be civil, and reasonably stated, no matter what our personal feelings, or no one gets anywhere

    And yes, getting a little anywhere is better than none at all

    The few others in this thread? Sure, but you're still missing the point; no insult was intended, and you continue to be intractable in feeling hurt over it, refusing to see reason that it was not as such

    You're not moving forward, just being stubborn and unreasonable in your hurt

    Plus, you're also missing the point that not everyone sees his words as 'leave', but you don't see that

    does it have to be civil?
    People were calm and reasonable for a very long time... what did it help?
    We are exactly here at this point.
    None of the reports were taking serious.... none of the devs did listen to suggestions or our feedback.
    We have been lied to and instead of admiting their mistakes they have pretty much insulted us by calling us exploiters.
    Being calm has lead to a weekly nerf-fest... treating us like **** .... and staying calm will not change anything on this messed up situation.

    The devs are happy with the situation (otherwise they would have put their energy into changing it)... if you as customer want changes then you have to force the devs to do them. That does not happen if you shut up and nod to everything.
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Players do matter. I do not want Players to leave.

    I think we can move on now, guys.
    Thank you, Taco.
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
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  • sirokksirokk Member Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Cryptic knows what they need to do, but will they do it... fast enough?

    The game used to be fun for casual play. My hero ships were so powerful. I felt like I was a part of Star Trek. But now the NPC are 10x tougher, the grind for Crafting is 10x more grindy, T5U doesn't cut it. To upgrade gear, you can't just buy it from the Fleet stores, you have to grind to get better stuff, you have to keep large spreadsheets to track where to get the stuff and otherwise monitor the Exchange market to get the best deals... this is Star Trek?

    It's a second job! I don't look forward to playing STO nearly as much anymore.

    Now for the first time (in the 2 years that I have been playing) that I have seen the game hit so hard by Cryptic's radical changes that so many players seemed to have actually not playing as much (or have left)... it's to a point of not being able to play certain queues any more because there aren't enough players. This halts reputation progression and trickles down to the rest of the gameplay, thus killing the game.

    I believe that Cryptic are under pressure from PWE and this is why STO is going in the direction that it is going.

    Unlike what PWE has seen work elsewhere in other markets, it is OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKING HERE.

    I am holding onto my money until Cryptic decides to make the right decisions and take the game back to be more like it was.... and this in effect not helping the game but I believe that this IS THE ONLY WAY THAT BOTH PWE AND CRYPTIC WILL TRULY LISTEN.

    Cryptic, you have done good things, I want to support you, I WANT the Operations Pack and I WANT the Pathfinder... but... you are continuing in a direction that no longer makes the game fun anymore. Why would anyone put money into a game that looks like it is dying?

    Cryptic, you need to figure out how to BRING THE PLAYERS BACK... AND FAST! ...and BTW... more SHIPS ARE NOT THE ANSWER! Please!
    Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home'
    SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Players do matter. I do not want Players to leave.

    Thought so but good to see outright.

    BTW, check your PM box. I know you can't answer PM's but still, have a look anyway, from late last night.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    xiaoping88 wrote: »
    I think we can move on now, guys.
    Thank you, Taco.

    I thanked him aswell, he did show a lot of bravery walking into a "Room" with tensions this high. Good on him for that. Really Brave... But I agree, this thread is going to die. As we now have some measure of closure, he is saying in that, We did misunderstand.

    I think it is understandable that the thread will probably be locked eventually, due to trolling... but I also think just about anybody could have taken that the way some of us did. However, we can NOT now, due to His words. He clarified it, problem solved D:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2014
  • stonelokistoneloki Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    A lot got thrown off topic here, but as everyone who has read and responded can now say they are indeed listening to us, and I thank them for that.

    Many of us can feel at times that all this is shouted on deft ears, its not, they have proven that.

    Also the original question of how they want us to respond has been answered by Smirk, Askray, and Tacofangs.

    They have spent time answering and responding and I again thank them for taking the time to do so, for all those that say its their jobs they NEVER once had to answer any question or respond to anyone in this thread.

    I do have a higher level of respect for all they have posted here, for all they have responded to.

    Again thank you guys, you didn't have to do any of this but you did and that's rather big of all you.
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  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Players do matter. I do not want Players to leave.

    Thanks :D

    Devs matter too because they can make cool stuff for us so on that note ..

    Plus please make more things like club 47 for instance one for the klingon side oh and maybe you can get a coder or two to make some more minigames like the dabo for us latinum horders for the klingon club.

    I think klingons would like to bet on some kind of batleth tournament or some other kind of "blood sport" in the center of said club that I could wager and buy some wierd things for latinum.
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    swatop wrote: »
    does it have to be civil?
    People were calm and reasonable for a very long time... what did it help?
    We are exactly here at this point.
    None of the reports were taking serious.... none of the devs did listen to suggestions or our feedback.
    We have been lied to and instead of admiting their mistakes they have pretty much insulted us by calling us exploiters.
    Being calm has lead to a weekly nerf-fest... treating us like **** .... and staying calm will not change anything on this messed up situation.

    The devs are happy with the situation (otherwise they would have put their energy into changing it)... if you as customer want changes then you have to force the devs to do them. That does not happen if you shut up and nod to everything.
    Actually, being here since Open Beta, the forums were always volatile - sure, some said their concerns reasonably, but most were just entitled and demanding (which is what drove the devs away). Many still are

    And besides, the reality is that they're a business. It's their job to decide how the game goes. We pay, and we can suggest what to do, and it's up to them to decide. But we can't expect that what we say is set in stone, then get mad that they didn't do it and demand that it be changed just because we want it this way; it doesn't work like that.

    Listening to suggestions/feedback is not the same thing as doing them.

    And besides, lied to is subjective, and statements can be generally directed, or at the vocal minority, etc etc... it's not a clear-cut process, and by no means will that change. We can't assume anything is easy to do, must be done above all else, anything is set in stone, or assume anything at all really.

    So yes, part of the problem is with us. I don't claim all of it (never has been), but we must work with the reality of things and be reasonable about it, because it's better than hate and flaming imo

    And edit, I haven't said this yet, but I should: Thank you Taco, for saying what you have :)
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vegie0 wrote: »
    You are free to leave the game too. His statement was very braud and clear. Doesnt bother you one bit they he never once said you should stay? Never once did he say he wants us here. If we dont like what they did... Get OUT... Come on, you can only defend that so much. You cant speak for him either. He did throw down the gauntlet... He needs to either pick it up and clarify or apologize, its that simple.

    Two words, I'm Sorry... Granted one is a Contraction but still....


    In all earnesty, I'd probably be upset if he told me to STAY. :P Nobody tells me what to do.

    And my ego, unlike those spanning a few galaxies, does not extend to me wanting to hear a Dev say he wants me to stay: companies not wanting to lose customers is simply a given.

    And he never said that if you don't like it, GET OUT. That's just you hyperboling. What he did say, however, is that they're trying to accommodate people, as far as is possible; but that if you really, really can't live with how they do things, that you don't have to.

    Sigh. What a bizarre turn this thread has taken.
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  • sirokksirokk Member Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Players do matter. I do not want Players to leave.

    Thank you for speaking up, Taco.

    I want to hear DIRECTLY from Stephen D'Angelo that HE IS GOING TO FIX THIS GAME AND FAST.
    Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home'
    SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
  • stonelokistoneloki Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    Sigh. What a bizarre turn this thread has taken.

    I never honestly expected it to get past a few posts, or that anyone at Cryptic would even give it a second glance lol.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    sirokk wrote: »
    Thank you for speaking up, Taco.

    I want to hear DIRECTLY from Stephen D'Angelo that HE IS GOING TO FIX THIS GAME AND FAST.

    Do you think he just has a switch on his desk that says, "Destroy Game." and "Fix Game." and we're just angry because he doesn't want to pull the switch from one direction to the other?

    I think it goes without saying that the EP of STO has 'fixing the game' as part of his day-to-day job agenda.
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This discussion has been closed.