As for me, I'll wait and see what the max-crafting kiddies charge for the upgrade parts before I render judgement. Not costing dil should in theory keep prices down just be virtue of them being cheaper to mass produce, but if the demand is such that idiots are willing to pay massive EC for them, then it may not mean much. I want nothing to do with this grindy crafting system myself, only bothering to do it in Beams school because I really want some omni-directional phasers and I don't feel like paying the insane prices being charged on the Exchange. Stll, this will have the pleasant side effect of allowing me to upgrade my beams with my own upgrade baubles, so there's that.
Did you READ the question I asked? Because I was asking if the upgrade system was the ONLY way to get MkXIV gear (if I mcan also buy it and/or it also drops, fime, then they AREN'T double dipping and following in tthe footsteps of other MMO models (which is fine.)
But, if the ONLY way to get MkXIV is to BUY a MkXII Fleet or other item and then have to use the Upgrade system to get what you just bought to MkXIV <--- That IS double-dipping on the playerbase.
TLDR: aGo back and re-read what I asked. As you obviously didn't bother to read the question fully.
i was only responding to the double dipping comment (IE ignoring the stuff i dont know yet) .....thanks....bye
I may hit Lvl15 in a few schools before christmas, and i've been on it since day 1 (wanted the omni-beams primarily). But since I don't have millions of dil to waste on levelling the system, it goes up so unbearably slowly.
Are you only leveling via research project? If so, that's the reason why.
Crafting gives double the exp that does. Craft a Mk X item for 3 hours, it's worth 6 hours of the research project.
Here are some answers to some of those question marks that are floating over your heads!
* Upgrading Item Mark is Always Successful
When your item gains enough Tech Points to upgrade to a higher Mark, this operation always succeeds. Your Mark 12 Breen shield will become a Mark 13 Breen shield with no failure chance. It's only when your item reaches maximum Mark and you are trying to improve its quality (color) that there is a chance that the upgrade won't succeed -- but even then, you keep your quality improvement chance and add to it for the next upgrade, and eventually you will reach a 100% chance of quality improvement.
* Item mods are not re-rolled
Your item's mods don't change as part of the upgrade, so if you like the mods on your Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3, you won't lose them. You just have a chance to get a new, extra mod. You might turn your array into a Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x4, or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [Dmg], or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [CrtH].
For most items, if you get a new mod, it is randomly selected. Set reputation gear does not get a random modifier; instead, the mod gained is always the same for a specific item. When you upgrade a MACO deflector to ultra-rare (ultraviolet) quality, for instance, it will always get one specific mod. That way you never have to worry about a random mod and having to grind out another piece of expensive rep gear and then upgrading it again -- once it improves in quality, you know that you have gained the one upgraded version.
* Epic (Gold) items have special bonus mods
The bonus mod for an item at Epic (Gold) quality is a unique special mod that doesn't otherwise appear, generally more powerful than other mods. These are: Space Shield: [Cp/Rg] Combined capacity/regen boost Space Impulse Engine: [Drv2] Overcharged driver coil, double coil bonus Space Deflector: [SS/SI] Interlaced integrity, structural integrity/shield systems combined bonus Space Weapon: [Ac/Dm]: Bonus accuracy/damage combo Ground Shield: [Cap2] Double capacity bonus Ground Armor: [ResAll/HP] Bonus HP and bonus resist all damage Ground Weapon: [Dm/CrH] Bonus damage and critical chance combo
* Your item can't accidentally out-level you
If you aren't a max level captain, you can't upgrade an item past the Mark that you can currently use. You don't need to worry about accidentally making a good piece of gear unusable.
* Making Tech Upgrades doesn't cost crafters dilithium
Tech Upgrades do not require dilithium to make; the dilithium cost is on use. This means that crafters don't have to worry about spending their dilithium to make Tech Upgrades for their friends and fleet, or for sale on the Exchange.
* Set Gear
As part of the upgrade system implementation, we've made set bonuses Mark-independent. This means that you can have Jem'Hadar shields Mk 10, deflector Mk 11, engines Mk 12, and still get the three-piece set bonus.
* Levelless items
Many pieces of levelless gear will stop receiving bonuses at level 50. After this, you can upgrade the item and it will gain a Mark, and will then improve after this. This will allow your levelless gear to actually keep up with your other gear, since Mk 12 gear is actually above level 50 and Mk 14 is even better than that.
* Special Mission Rewards
Almost everything you can get should be upgradeable. As noted in the blog, you can upgrade Breen set gear, caustic plasma beams, Hargh'peng torpedoes -- if you're on Tribble and you find something that you can't upgrade, post on the Tribble forum.
Thanks Jesse. This is an important post. I was really apprehensive of the upgrade system until you confirmed that mods don't get re-rolled. That's a critical piece of info that's missing from the blog.
(psssst, these should be added to an FAQ at the bottom)
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Here are some answers to some of those question marks that are floating over your heads!
*hugs Jheinig for taking the time to post some additional tidbits that weren't in the blog!*
* Upgrading Item Mark is Always Successful
When your item gains enough Tech Points to upgrade to a higher Mark, this operation always succeeds. Your Mark 12 Breen shield will become a Mark 13 Breen shield with no failure chance. It's only when your item reaches maximum Mark and you are trying to improve its quality (color) that there is a chance that the upgrade won't succeed -- but even then, you keep your quality improvement chance and add to it for the next upgrade, and eventually you will reach a 100% chance of quality improvement.
In other words, you can work on simply upgrading your tech and worry about quality improvement later.
* Item mods are not re-rolled
Your item's mods don't change as part of the upgrade, so if you like the mods on your Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3, you won't lose them. You just have a chance to get a new, extra mod. You might turn your array into a Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x4, or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [Dmg], or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [CrtH].
For most items, if you get a new mod, it is randomly selected. Set reputation gear does not get a random modifier; instead, the mod gained is always the same for a specific item. When you upgrade a MACO deflector to ultra-rare (ultraviolet) quality, for instance, it will always get one specific mod. That way you never have to worry about a random mod and having to grind out another piece of expensive rep gear and then upgrading it again -- once it improves in quality, you know that you have gained the one upgraded version.
I honestly love the fact that we can gain specific mods on the reputation gear.
* Epic (Gold) items have special bonus mods
The bonus mod for an item at Epic (Gold) quality is a unique special mod that doesn't otherwise appear, generally more powerful than other mods. These are: Space Shield: [Cp/Rg] Combined capacity/regen boost Space Impulse Engine: [Drv2] Overcharged driver coil, double coil bonus Space Deflector: [SS/SI] Interlaced integrity, structural integrity/shield systems combined bonus Space Weapon: [Ac/Dm]: Bonus accuracy/damage combo Ground Shield: [Cap2] Double capacity bonus Ground Armor: [ResAll/HP] Bonus HP and bonus resist all damage Ground Weapon: [Dm/CrH] Bonus damage and critical chance combo
That'll give people a reason to shoot for epic gear!
* Your item can't accidentally out-level you
If you aren't a max level captain, you can't upgrade an item past the Mark that you can currently use. You don't need to worry about accidentally making a good piece of gear unusable.
I honestly expected this. It makes sense that you can't upgrade past the Mark you can currently use. This system though means that once crafting unlocks, people won't be throwing away old gear!
* Making Tech Upgrades doesn't cost crafters dilithium
Tech Upgrades do not require dilithium to make; the dilithium cost is on use. This means that crafters don't have to worry about spending their dilithium to make Tech Upgrades for their friends and fleet, or for sale on the Exchange.
Not a heavy dilthium sink. If we take the upgrade example from the blog, it won't cost people more than a day's worth of dilithium to upgrade at the most.
So if I read that response correctly, If it doesn't upgrade in quality ( Not mk, in quality) the points carry over and adds to your next chance of improving it?
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
OK, so if I've read this correctly, tier 5 in a crafting school lets you build packs cheaply that are then applied using dilithium to individual items.
Well, so long as the dilithium price point isn't too high then I see no problem.
However, if that price point is, say, greater than a days refining on one toon, then we may be looking at something a bit too pricey.
Depends on the details, which we dont have yet.
I do have one query though, sorry if iots been asked/answered before.
I have a mark XII space set, after following the correct procedure I upgrade the engines to MK XIII.
Do I still get my three piece set bonus, or do i lose it until all three pieces are the same mark? And, if one get a quality boost, does that effect the bonus elgibility?
Yes, I read the same thing in the blog and thought the same thing. Hate the gigantic Klingon weapons and the Holographic fed weapons.
Indeed, For my KDF character theres a good chance I'll be going for an upgrade on the retro disruptor pistol
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
and so begins the LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG road to gold mk14 versions of all your gear, were gear can now fully be a replacement for skill, and the unapproachability of pvp reaches critical mass.
Well, yes, I see the down side for Grind/Pay-To-Win ruling PvP.
On the other hand, it may be that it's worth it to some of the PvPers to keep their edge and that will translate into more sales for Cryptic.
Personally, I can foresee the distinct possibility that I won't bother with gear upgrades at all. Or at least, I won't want to do it indiscriminately.
I agree with the posters who are saying that we need to understand the dilithium costs and such before we can write it off. It seems like a very good complement to the R&D system, if nothing else, and will get even better when the R&D system lets you customize some of your mods.
If upgraded gear can be traded, it makes Crafting as a character occupation viable within the game's economy system. I have a feeling that if it started out unbound, it will stay unbound. That's a huge implication right there.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
So if I read that response correctly, If it doesn't upgrade in quality ( Not mk, in quality) the points carry over and adds to your next chance of improving it?
2 toons, no dil by the time i use it on rep gear or fleet projects
time to find another game that isnt all about greed and grind.
Seen a lot of people sayin same thing actually, people leaving, maybe dis is what craptic wants
good luck with finding an mmo that doesnt involve grinds, sinks or real money input.
this game may not be perfect and many of us may whine about stuff, but as far as
i'm concerned, this game has the best F2P model on the market. i cant decide if you
are just young, nieve or 'hit yourself on the head with a soft plush tribble' crazy. but
happy travels either way.
Here are some answers to some of those question marks that are floating over your heads!
* Upgrading Item Mark is Always Successful
When your item gains enough Tech Points to upgrade to a higher Mark, this operation always succeeds. Your Mark 12 Breen shield will become a Mark 13 Breen shield with no failure chance. It's only when your item reaches maximum Mark and you are trying to improve its quality (color) that there is a chance that the upgrade won't succeed -- but even then, you keep your quality improvement chance and add to it for the next upgrade, and eventually you will reach a 100% chance of quality improvement.
* Item mods are not re-rolled
Your item's mods don't change as part of the upgrade, so if you like the mods on your Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3, you won't lose them. You just have a chance to get a new, extra mod. You might turn your array into a Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x4, or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [Dmg], or Phaser Beam Array [Acc]x3 [CrtH].
For most items, if you get a new mod, it is randomly selected. Set reputation gear does not get a random modifier; instead, the mod gained is always the same for a specific item. When you upgrade a MACO deflector to ultra-rare (ultraviolet) quality, for instance, it will always get one specific mod. That way you never have to worry about a random mod and having to grind out another piece of expensive rep gear and then upgrading it again -- once it improves in quality, you know that you have gained the one upgraded version.
* Epic (Gold) items have special bonus mods
The bonus mod for an item at Epic (Gold) quality is a unique special mod that doesn't otherwise appear, generally more powerful than other mods. These are: Space Shield: [Cp/Rg] Combined capacity/regen boost Space Impulse Engine: [Drv2] Overcharged driver coil, double coil bonus Space Deflector: [SS/SI] Interlaced integrity, structural integrity/shield systems combined bonus Space Weapon: [Ac/Dm]: Bonus accuracy/damage combo Ground Shield: [Cap2] Double capacity bonus Ground Armor: [ResAll/HP] Bonus HP and bonus resist all damage Ground Weapon: [Dm/CrH] Bonus damage and critical chance combo
* Your item can't accidentally out-level you
If you aren't a max level captain, you can't upgrade an item past the Mark that you can currently use. You don't need to worry about accidentally making a good piece of gear unusable.
* Making Tech Upgrades doesn't cost crafters dilithium
Tech Upgrades do not require dilithium to make; the dilithium cost is on use. This means that crafters don't have to worry about spending their dilithium to make Tech Upgrades for their friends and fleet, or for sale on the Exchange.
* Set Gear
As part of the upgrade system implementation, we've made set bonuses Mark-independent. This means that you can have Jem'Hadar shields Mk 10, deflector Mk 11, engines Mk 12, and still get the three-piece set bonus.
* Levelless items
Many pieces of levelless gear will stop receiving bonuses at level 50. After this, you can upgrade the item and it will gain a Mark, and will then improve after this. This will allow your levelless gear to actually keep up with your other gear, since Mk 12 gear is actually above level 50 and Mk 14 is even better than that.
* Special Mission Rewards
Almost everything you can get should be upgradeable. As noted in the blog, you can upgrade Breen set gear, caustic plasma beams, Hargh'peng torpedoes -- if you're on Tribble and you find something that you can't upgrade, post on the Tribble forum.
Still have one question open if all set bonuses will be scaling up with quality. If the Breen 3-piece set bonus scales, it might mean they are finally giving some love to older sets.
2nd curious question:
Since some of these sets can increase in quality while upgrading. When you have mixed quality, but same mark set items, do you still get the set bonus?
I have a feeling that gear that only exists at lower tiers won't be upgradeable.
The Chromodynamic Mk II armor, for example. Since higher mark versions don't already exist in the system, you won't be able to upgrade it. Because there are no base stats for anything like a Mk X Chromodynamic armor and the upgrade system converts the item from low tier to high tier... it doesn't add stats.
True, or false?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The improvement to Mk+1 comes when a threshold of points is reached, automatically.
As you rightly say, its only the quality boost thats subject to RNG.
However, there is a question of how many points each pack gives, and how many are needed to reach those thresholds.
The number of point infusions, or more exactly, the dilithium cost for the apppopriate number of infusions is the query.
This was from when the Exchange in Holodeck showed TP values (which was patched after I posted it). Look at the TP value needed for a VR mk X item right there.
"Each time you apply a Tech Upgrade, your item gains tech points. When the item earns enough tech points, it is eligible to upgrade. The number of tech points required to upgrade varies by the type of item, the quality of the item, and the Mark of the item. For example, a green Mark 4 ground weapon and a blue Mark 11 space shield will require different numbers of tech points before they are eligible to upgrade."
I think the issue we're still at with the upgrading is that, like the current crafting system, your outcomes are random. While the upgrade process is somewhat of an improvement in that you can build up to a Quality improvement even at maximum Mk rating (thanks for the clarification earlier, jheinig), you still have no option to select the [Mods] you receive.
Yes, we've been told that [Mod] customization is one of their goals with the crafting system... but it was not available at the launch of Season 9.5, has not been announced for X2 - Delta Rising, and we don't know what order of priority that has relative to or within any other current or future projects. Since last time the doffing UI and removal of Exploration and Cluster maps seemed to take priority over finishing [Mod] customization in Season 9.5 dedicated to crafting, I don't hold out a lot of hope for that being available.
I can wait for [Mod] customization, though... I'd rather have the new things finished and functional than see that added to their plate. More things half-finished does not make for a net win. :P
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I finally got caught up reading and see we've had a response from the Dev Team,
answers pretty much all the questions tumbling around my head.... Thx Muchly!!
Try to answer questions sooner instead of letting these threads turning into crazy talk. You let these blog posts go out early, and then you don't see responses until around 3:30PM PST or later (4 hours and a half later), and things get completely out of hand.
i strongly agree with this statement, i appreciate you may not be able to answer all questions
but you are quite literally throwing yourselves to the lions by not answering at least some of
concerns raised when the blogs are posted.
i do recall you guys admit that you needed to work on your communication systems, just after
Delta Rising was announced - this is a golden opportunity to make good on that.
2nd curious question:
Since some of these sets can increase in quality while upgrading. When you have mixed quality, but same mark set items, do you still get the set bonus?
Yes how is this going to work ??
Also how many of the upgrade tech will you need ?? 10, 100's ??
Comments
As for me, I'll wait and see what the max-crafting kiddies charge for the upgrade parts before I render judgement. Not costing dil should in theory keep prices down just be virtue of them being cheaper to mass produce, but if the demand is such that idiots are willing to pay massive EC for them, then it may not mean much. I want nothing to do with this grindy crafting system myself, only bothering to do it in Beams school because I really want some omni-directional phasers and I don't feel like paying the insane prices being charged on the Exchange. Stll, this will have the pleasant side effect of allowing me to upgrade my beams with my own upgrade baubles, so there's that.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
And I don't see Role Playing in the Game either, point?
i was only responding to the double dipping comment (IE ignoring the stuff i dont know yet) .....thanks....bye
Crafting gives double the exp that does. Craft a Mk X item for 3 hours, it's worth 6 hours of the research project.
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Thanks Jesse. This is an important post. I was really apprehensive of the upgrade system until you confirmed that mods don't get re-rolled. That's a critical piece of info that's missing from the blog.
(psssst, these should be added to an FAQ at the bottom)
Joined January 2009
*hugs Jheinig for taking the time to post some additional tidbits that weren't in the blog!*
In other words, you can work on simply upgrading your tech and worry about quality improvement later.
I honestly love the fact that we can gain specific mods on the reputation gear.
That'll give people a reason to shoot for epic gear!
I honestly expected this. It makes sense that you can't upgrade past the Mark you can currently use. This system though means that once crafting unlocks, people won't be throwing away old gear!
Not a heavy dilthium sink. If we take the upgrade example from the blog, it won't cost people more than a day's worth of dilithium to upgrade at the most.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I read the same thing in the blog and thought the same thing. Hate the gigantic Klingon weapons and the Holographic fed weapons.
Well, so long as the dilithium price point isn't too high then I see no problem.
However, if that price point is, say, greater than a days refining on one toon, then we may be looking at something a bit too pricey.
Depends on the details, which we dont have yet.
I do have one query though, sorry if iots been asked/answered before.
I have a mark XII space set, after following the correct procedure I upgrade the engines to MK XIII.
Do I still get my three piece set bonus, or do i lose it until all three pieces are the same mark? And, if one get a quality boost, does that effect the bonus elgibility?
Potentially a lot of dilithium there
and its still just a "chance" to upgrade not guaranteed
x7 weapons average and x10 consoles on each ship
Indeed, For my KDF character theres a good chance I'll be going for an upgrade on the retro disruptor pistol
Well, yes, I see the down side for Grind/Pay-To-Win ruling PvP.
On the other hand, it may be that it's worth it to some of the PvPers to keep their edge and that will translate into more sales for Cryptic.
Personally, I can foresee the distinct possibility that I won't bother with gear upgrades at all. Or at least, I won't want to do it indiscriminately.
I agree with the posters who are saying that we need to understand the dilithium costs and such before we can write it off. It seems like a very good complement to the R&D system, if nothing else, and will get even better when the R&D system lets you customize some of your mods.
If upgraded gear can be traded, it makes Crafting as a character occupation viable within the game's economy system. I have a feeling that if it started out unbound, it will stay unbound. That's a huge implication right there.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
There you go.
Yes. /10char
I don't think you read the dev's post. Going from MK XII to MMK XIII will always happen, the lottery part is the quality upgrade.
this game may not be perfect and many of us may whine about stuff, but as far as
i'm concerned, this game has the best F2P model on the market. i cant decide if you
are just young, nieve or 'hit yourself on the head with a soft plush tribble' crazy. but
happy travels either way.
That clears a few things up. Thanks for that.
You don't need to craft.
Oh, i read it slightly differently.
The improvement to Mk+1 comes when a threshold of points is reached, automatically.
As you rightly say, its only the quality boost thats subject to RNG.
However, there is a question of how many points each pack gives, and how many are needed to reach those thresholds.
The number of point infusions, or more exactly, the dilithium cost for the apppopriate number of infusions is the query.
Still have one question open if all set bonuses will be scaling up with quality. If the Breen 3-piece set bonus scales, it might mean they are finally giving some love to older sets.
2nd curious question:
Since some of these sets can increase in quality while upgrading. When you have mixed quality, but same mark set items, do you still get the set bonus?
The Chromodynamic Mk II armor, for example. Since higher mark versions don't already exist in the system, you won't be able to upgrade it. Because there are no base stats for anything like a Mk X Chromodynamic armor and the upgrade system converts the item from low tier to high tier... it doesn't add stats.
True, or false?
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
YES!
Ok, I'm good and you have my buy in
This was from when the Exchange in Holodeck showed TP values (which was patched after I posted it). Look at the TP value needed for a VR mk X item right there.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=142zbx3&s=8#.VBije_ldW_g
I think the issue we're still at with the upgrading is that, like the current crafting system, your outcomes are random. While the upgrade process is somewhat of an improvement in that you can build up to a Quality improvement even at maximum Mk rating (thanks for the clarification earlier, jheinig), you still have no option to select the [Mods] you receive.
Yes, we've been told that [Mod] customization is one of their goals with the crafting system... but it was not available at the launch of Season 9.5, has not been announced for X2 - Delta Rising, and we don't know what order of priority that has relative to or within any other current or future projects. Since last time the doffing UI and removal of Exploration and Cluster maps seemed to take priority over finishing [Mod] customization in Season 9.5 dedicated to crafting, I don't hold out a lot of hope for that being available.
I can wait for [Mod] customization, though... I'd rather have the new things finished and functional than see that added to their plate. More things half-finished does not make for a net win. :P
I finally got caught up reading and see we've had a response from the Dev Team,
answers pretty much all the questions tumbling around my head.... Thx Muchly!!
i strongly agree with this statement, i appreciate you may not be able to answer all questions
but you are quite literally throwing yourselves to the lions by not answering at least some of
concerns raised when the blogs are posted.
i do recall you guys admit that you needed to work on your communication systems, just after
Delta Rising was announced - this is a golden opportunity to make good on that.
Yes how is this going to work ??
Also how many of the upgrade tech will you need ?? 10, 100's ??