and no one gives a damn what you think is best for the romulan people, least of all cryptic who are the final authority in what direction the republic storyline will be heading
you don't like it? make your own foundry missions or fanfiction with your idealistic republic and stop cluttering up this thread with offtopic nonsense
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
If the next chancellor become Ja'rod , a member of the House of Duras, than it is an alliance with the Romulans more than likely. But it probably will have to wait until the second STO. Personally, I see it rather than binding to the story line JarJar popcorn movies with the destruction of Romulus and the Romulan people divide on either psychotic killers with spiky ships (Nero, Tal'Shiar) or rebels from StarWars (RR)
Btw, I expect the destruction of Kronos in the third JarJar universe movie , because the kids love big explosions and planets running out.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
It's kind of a nerd rage thing. Star Trek fans need to understand what caused JJ Abrams to nuke existing canon. Take this for example...
In TOS, there was an episode where Kirk and Spock went over to a romulan ship and stole their cloaking device and sexy female captain respectively. They used said cloaking device to make their getaway and it didn't fry out in the process.
This opened up a plot hole towards future episodes regarding why Federation ships weren't cloaked since they had a working copy of the technology, so the writers had to add this treaty in a TNG episode.
Furthermore, in DS9 when they wanted to write in a few adventures about a cloaked Defiant, they had to have a few Romulans on the ship to "guard the cloaking device" in order to honor the treaty meantioned in TNG.
You had writing precident lead to writing precident - the longer the shows went on the more the writers had written themselves into a corner.
Which leads us to the real reason...because cloaking disrupts the "feel" of what a Federation mission usually is. They are supposed to be the straight-up open ones.
It's also making Romulan characters obsolete, since at present Fed ships have intrinsic power level advantages to counterbalance their lack of cloak. The devs typically overlook Romulans, so we're probably not going to get a power level boost.
Soooo.... some of you want to attack the Federation? And you want the Klingon Empire to help?
So you want the Klingon to attack the people that helped save their homeworld (and the Republic's homeworld too)
You want to launch an attack against a major force of the universe while fighting off Tholians, Elachi, Voth, Borg, Undine, and Iconians?
"3 Planet Killers and a Voth City Ship has made it out of the Gateway!"
"Leave it! The Federation has cloaks! Let's go attack them!"
I get it. D'Tan is no "normal" Romulan leader. Like Sela or Hakeev or Shinzon and as much you may love for the return of the good ol days, we (UFP, Klingon Empire, and Republic) have to stand as one or lose everything.
And I'm sure no Romulan ever want to feel that level of lost again.
Soooo.... some of you want to attack the Federation? And you want the Klingon Empire to help?
So you want the Klingon to attack the people that helped save their homeworld (and the Republic's homeworld too)
You want to launch an attack against a major force of the universe while fighting off Tholians, Elachi, Voth, Borg, Undine, and Iconians?
"3 Planet Killers and a Voth City Ship has made it out of the Gateway!"
"Leave it! The Federation has cloaks! Let's go attack them!"
I get it. D'Tan is no "normal" Romulan leader. Like Sela or Hakeev or Shinzon and as much you may love for the return of the good ol days, we (UFP, Klingon Empire, and Republic) have tostand as one or lose everything.
And I'm sure no Romulan ever want to feel that level of lost again.
Well frankly an actual war was obviously never going to happen but there's this diplomatic thing called "Sabre Rattling" but aside from that you seem to have totally missed the point, and general flow of the conversation in this topic. Mostly my original intent was a bit of in character RP raging at the bull cryptic is pulling by making the federation the be all faction, ignoring the other 2 fractions, and removing any sense of uniqueness those other 2 fractions might have.
also... I don't know what you think is a "normal" Romulan leader but Sela, Hakeev and Shinzon are pretty much the antithesis of a "normal" Romulan period.
I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of the sound of all of the Starfleet and KDF aid the Romulans (players and NPCs) get :P
Back on topic. From what it looks like the cloaks are only going to intel ships and based on what I'm reading the KDF and Romulan intel ships will still be the masters of cloaks. Let the spoonfeds have their toy. The KDF still has a stronger battlecruiser, carrier, and flight deck cruiser line then the Federation. And the Romulans have super battlecloak on everything down to the toilet and that is not the strongest thing they have.
Federation ships may out number the KDF and Romulans together but for ever 3 Starfleet ships there is one KDF/Republic ship better than them.
Also I don't anyone should be "Sabre Rattling" while a battle for our right to live is raging on. I dislike those Vulcans more then anyone but there is nothing to gain from taunting them or their human masters now.
Before you say something I'm Republic first and for most. D'tan has much for the Romulan people but it does not mean we follow him to the Vulcans' feet
I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of the sound of all of the Starfleet and KDF aid the Romulans (players and NPCs) get :P
Back on topic. From what it looks like the cloaks are only going to intel ships and based on what I'm reading the KDF and Romulan intel ships will still be the masters of cloaks. Let the spoonfeds have their toy. The KDF still has a stronger battlecruiser, carrier, and flight deck cruiser line then the Federation. And the Romulans have super battlecloak on everything down to the toilet and that is not the strongest thing they have.
Federation ships may out number the KDF and Romulans together but for ever 3 Starfleet ships there is one KDF/Republic ship better than them.
Also I don't anyone should be "Sabre Rattling" while a battle for our right to live is raging on. I dislike those Vulcans more then anyone but there is nothing to gain from taunting them or their human masters now.
Before you say something I'm Republic first and for most. D'tan has much for the Romulan people but it does not mean we follow him to the Vulcans' feet
The point of saber rattling is to remind politicians of military ability and to influence their decisions toward those parties. Right this moment there are cloaks going onto just intel ships that will be used in the Delta quadrant. But Star Fleet has shown a precedent of ignoring such promises when it suits them. Again referring to the actions of Captain Benjamin Sisko in his illegal use of a cloaking device in the alpha quadrant. This with his apparent lack of even modest rebuke from his commanders marks a precedent for the Federation to ignore treaty stipulations when they have the whim to do so. Ignored they will see what other 'minor issues' will slip. Perhaps a freighter of medicine for Mol'Rihan is needed to transport grain to cardassia. Well resources are tight are they not? And the freighter will return and be loaded in a few months. Assuming no other troubles occur? But a bit of saber rattling now, and they know that to push such issues is a bad idea. Having the consequence of those actions more likely to send us asking for closer ties to Federation rivals increases the delicacy of their negotiations and actions.
So I heartily disagree with you on the effectiveness of saber rattling.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The point of saber rattling is to remind politicians of military ability and to influence their decisions toward those parties. Right this moment there are cloaks going onto just intel ships that will be used in the Delta quadrant. But Star Fleet has shown a precedent of ignoring such promises when it suits them. Again referring to the actions of Captain Benjamin Sisko in his illegal use of a cloaking device in the alpha quadrant. This with his apparent lack of even modest rebuke from his commanders marks a precedent for the Federation to ignore treaty stipulations when they have the whim to do so. Ignored they will see what other 'minor issues' will slip. Perhaps a freighter of medicine for Mol'Rihan is needed to transport grain to cardassia. Well resources are tight are they not? And the freighter will return and be loaded in a few months. Assuming no other troubles occur? But a bit of saber rattling now, and they know that to push such issues is a bad idea. Having the consequence of those actions more likely to send us asking for closer ties to Federation rivals increases the delicacy of their negotiations and actions.
So I heartily disagree with you on the effectiveness of saber rattling.
There are hawks within the KDF, Republic Navy, and even Starfleet that wish for the good old days where everyone kept their guns pointed at each other.
The rattling of sabers could be taken as the beating of war drums for these people.
And you know what? I'm somewhat ok with this but not right now.
The Alliance of the our three people right now is not as strong as it should and can be. And I don't think Starfleet fielding a new class of ship is a good enough reason to risk these weakened bonds.
There are hawks within the KDF, Republic Navy, and even Starfleet that wish for the good old days where everyone kept their guns pointed at each other.
The rattling of sabers could be taken as the beating of war drums for these people.
And you know what? I'm somewhat ok with this but not right now.
The Alliance of the our three people right now is not as strong as it should and can be. And I don't think Starfleet fielding a new class of ship is a good enough reason to risk these weakened bonds.
As they say, "There are bigger fish to fry."
And while big fish fry in those fires, the small ones burn.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The point of saber rattling is to remind politicians of military ability and to influence their decisions toward those parties. Right this moment there are cloaks going onto just intel ships that will be used in the Delta quadrant. But Star Fleet has shown a precedent of ignoring such promises when it suits them. Again referring to the actions of Captain Benjamin Sisko in his illegal use of a cloaking device in the alpha quadrant. This with his apparent lack of even modest rebuke from his commanders marks a precedent for the Federation to ignore treaty stipulations when they have the whim to do so. Ignored they will see what other 'minor issues' will slip. Perhaps a freighter of medicine for Mol'Rihan is needed to transport grain to cardassia. Well resources are tight are they not? And the freighter will return and be loaded in a few months. Assuming no other troubles occur? But a bit of saber rattling now, and they know that to push such issues is a bad idea. Having the consequence of those actions more likely to send us asking for closer ties to Federation rivals increases the delicacy of their negotiations and actions.
So I heartily disagree with you on the effectiveness of saber rattling.
indeed, and everyone knows that if Earth had been blown up by a supernova, the Enterprise would have said F*#kall to the Temporal Prime Directive and undone the damage.
I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of the sound of all of the Starfleet and KDF aid the Romulans (players and NPCs) get :P
Back on topic. From what it looks like the cloaks are only going to intel ships and based on what I'm reading the KDF and Romulan intel ships will still be the masters of cloaks. Let the spoonfeds have their toy. The KDF still has a stronger battlecruiser, carrier, and flight deck cruiser line then the Federation. And the Romulans have super battlecloak on everything down to the toilet and that is not the strongest thing they have.
Federation ships may out number the KDF and Romulans together but for ever 3 Starfleet ships there is one KDF/Republic ship better than them.
Also I don't anyone should be "Sabre Rattling" while a battle for our right to live is raging on. I dislike those Vulcans more then anyone but there is nothing to gain from taunting them or their human masters now.
Before you say something I'm Republic first and for most. D'tan has much for the Romulan people but it does not mean we follow him to the Vulcans' feet
I don't completely agree with this, while the RR does have nice ships the KDF doesn't...the huge majority of the KDF fleet is rather generic and falls behind anything Starfleet has.
The KDF doesn't really have a stronger BC as their best is based off the Avenger. They may have a better full carrier and FDC's...but the Feds have the DNC, HEC, and the MME's.
The KDF hasn't gotten a new original ship in over 3 years and I'm not sure if I would call these new ships they're getting *original* seeing as Starfleet is getting a Escort, Sci, and 2 Cruisers. So they may very well just be a copy of the Fed cruiser with less hull, more turn, and cannons.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
But why are everyone but the feds are allowed to have cloak?
Faction diversity. There's got to be reasons to play the other factions. Otherwise why bother having multiple factions if the differences are only cosmetic?
Canon loyalty. This is supposed to be a Star Trek game, not just any random sci-fi MMO. Outside of the original USS Defiant, which was explicitly stated to have been given special permission for it by the Romulan government, no Federation ship in the canon has ever been permanently equipped with a cloaking device. Even leaving aside the legality question, it's a purely military device that doesn't jibe with Federation ethics any more than "raiders" do. People expect the Federation to act like the Federation, otherwise it's not Star Trek.
PVP. If everybody has cloaks, battles are reduced to waiting for somebody to get bored and decloak just to get something to happen. Somebody's got to be the side that can't cloak, and Feds drew the short straw because they don't have cloaks in the shows.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Faction diversity. There's got to be reasons to play the other factions. Otherwise why bother having multiple factions if the differences are only cosmetic?
Other games do exactly this, and they've been as or more successful than STO. It seems like this isn't an issue for the majority of MMO players -- most people understand that gameplay balance between factions is more important than unique abilities that throw balance way off. Cryptic has yet to learn this lesson, and it's why PVP is such a mess right now.
Speaking of...
PVP. If everybody has cloaks, battles are reduced to waiting for somebody to get bored and decloak just to get something to happen. Somebody's got to be the side that can't cloak, and Feds drew the short straw because they don't have cloaks in the shows.
This is exactly the problem with PVP. PVP can't thrive if one side has to draw "the short straw" in order to play, and be the perpetual victim. People talk about Feds having better scanners, but that's really just in one ship... their other ships just explode to Alpha strikes most of the time. There's no way to prepare for an Alpha strike, because that requires anticipating it.
As it stands, whenever I enter Ker'rat, if I ever see a lone ship flying around, it's always just acting as bait for its cloaked friends waiting in the wings.
What PVP needs is maps that have "gas pockets" or other environmental hazards that knock ships out of cloak. Cloaking has ruined PVP, and unless they give all Fed ships a cost-free way to detect cloaked vessels in the same way as KDF and Rom ships get cost-free cloaks, or just make Cloaking very difficult in all PVP maps, PVP is never going to improve.
Saying Feds shouldn't get cloaks just because "they drew the short straw" is just flat-out stupid.
After thinking on this subject for a couple of days. Here is what I come to on this.
1: Star Trek Lore:
Its bad due to its against Federation ways. As they have always tried not to sneak around and was proud. So this goes against their ways set in the shows/movies. Yes at times they did it as it created a good story or other reasons. Even the Show's creator Gene had this to say: Indicated in various interviews that "our heroes don't sneak around", indicating that the Federation made a conscious decision to not develop cloaking technology. According to Memory Alpha. Plus if they didn't want to go by that. The Federation would be cloaking since TOS days after capturing the first Romulan Cloaking Device. As it wouldn't take them long to reverse engineer it and equip it to the whole Fleet. Granted at times they did use cloaking. The most honorable way was the agreement with the Romulan with the Defiant. As both sides gained valuable info on the Dominion. In that situation it called for extreme measures. However the rest was done and was usually dealt with. Like the Pegasus and Insurrection mess. Both which didn't go well and usually ended up someone getting killed for their treachery/corruption. Or was punished via courts.
2: Game wise:
Game wise this don't help much on PVP. As now everyone can just go by the battle ground and not be spotted. To counter this. Instead of giving the Feds cloaking to match the Romulans and KDF. They should gave them sensor moves or a passive that helps detect them better. As in the past shows/movies showed the Federation eventually overcoming the cloak. The new T6 ships with their Intelligent probes/ sensors could do this. Saying now the law/rule isn't in effect. Just shows they want more freedom on the game to do what they want. Even toss some of the ideals set by the show/movies. Where which the Federation was always looked more of the good guy role. Where the war/ battle hungry KDF and sneaky/ treachery Romulans used the cloak. As it matched their roles.
3: New Items to buy:
Its all about money. Look now the Feds can get cloak on the new T6 ships. Now spend that money on them. To me this is the main driving point on why STO wants to lean away from the shows/movies always tried to stay away from. Or its a quick exit on trying to balance things out. Might as well give all factions all the stuff. So there won't be something unique about them. Which is why I play all 3. Each one has their own style.
4: I will not use it on my Federation:
As a RPer view point. I will uphold the Federation's long lasting rules on cloaking. My captain and ship will not result to flying around cloaked. So I won't use it as it don't fit well with my "hero role". If I want to sneak around. I will get on my Romulan or KDF.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
"I have to agree that the Romulan Empire no longer exists, so treaties with them are now null and void.
There is no such treaty with the Romulan Republic (as far as we know?) so it would not violate any treaty to actively pursue a Fed Cloaking Device, phased or not.
I doubt D'Tan would tell the Feds they can't research cloaking technology."
~CaptainSmirk
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
"I have to agree that the Romulan Empire no longer exists, so treaties with them are now null and void.
There is no such treaty with the Romulan Republic (as far as we know?) so it would not violate any treaty to actively pursue a Fed Cloaking Device, phased or not.
I doubt D'Tan would tell the Feds they can't research cloaking technology."
~CaptainSmirk
Plus would D'Tan really care if the federation had cloaking tech?
Not entering this pointles and useless debate again, but all you people starting to quote Smirk do realize that he's just a person and player of STO, not the arbiter of right and wrong in the ST IP, right? He's wellcomed to share his opinion, but in the end it is just that - his opinion, like yours or mine. Sorry to burst your bubble, but quoting Smirk doesn't give any aditional credibility to any claims.
He's also a PWE employee, so ofcourse he was "setting up ground" with his posts in that thread, as he was certainly aware of the 3 new cloaking ships they had ready.
I agree its all about the Money. As its the main player in our game. As we need them to come out with new stuff and keep us playing for enjoyment. This is why they offering cloaks on the new ships to get more people to buy them. If not they will keep playing their current ships or just upgrade them. Then those T6 ships would turn into a waste. They had to put something on them to get buyers.
I wouldn't use Smirk as hard facts. He is just like us, giving opinions. Only hard facts we have is what lore says.
To fix all this fuss about it. It should be added into the game via some kind of cutscene, text, mission or what ever. To say why the Feds can fully use cloaks. That way everyone can be satisfied. As the old saying goes on games. If its in the game, then its considered game lore.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
So I haven't seen this explanation yet for Starfleet cloaks though I'm only on page 6.... In the Romulan storyline, Republic officers have to choose allegiances with either Starfleet or the KDF. That meant that these officers take their own Romulan ships with Romulan cloaks into the fleets of their new allies. Essentially they received a battle field commission (honoring their equivilant Romulan ranks) as officers of either Starfleet or KDF. It was almost like a dual citizenship agreement in some ways. So the fact that Romulan officers were essentially joining Starfleet and bringing their cloaked ships with them it only makes sense that Starfleet captains be allowed to use cloaks along side their new officers and partners.
The Treaty of Algeron, if it still existed in any way, and the Executive Order would have been nullified by this new arrangement with D'Tan and the Republic.
However I do agree with the comments that Cryptic was far less concerned with keeping to any expressly stated rules or lore from Star Trek than in making something a bit more random in order to make money. The idea that is a game and not traditionally seen as cannon may have signaled to Cryptic that they didn't have to play by all the rules to begin with.
Not entering this pointles and useless debate again, but all you people starting to quote Smirk do realize that he's just a person and player of STO, not the arbiter of right and wrong in the ST IP, right? He's wellcomed to share his opinion, but in the end it is just that - his opinion, like yours or mine. Sorry to burst your bubble, but quoting Smirk doesn't give any aditional credibility to any claims.
He's also a PWE employee, so ofcourse he was "setting up ground" with his posts in that thread, as he was certainly aware of the 3 new cloaking ships they had ready.
It's all about the $$$.
That's because people have a black and white view of what's canon in regards to this game. IMO there are two forms of canon (in regards to this game) TV and Movies and what they put forth in this game. The stories the STO writers are NOT canon for Star Trek proper but are for this game.
You can argue what would Roddenberry do or the plans and hopes and dreams of TNG writers but in the end...the writers of this game are setting canon for this game...if you don't like game canon...dont play the game.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Otherwise why bother having multiple factions if the differences are only cosmetic?
Are you serious? Alliance vs Horde in WoW? Republic vs Empire in TOR? Guardian vs Defiant in RIFT? The only MMO I can think of that have factions where the differences aren't cosmetic is Order vs Destruction in Warhammer Online, but those differences are minor.
Comments
you don't like it? make your own foundry missions or fanfiction with your idealistic republic and stop cluttering up this thread with offtopic nonsense
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Btw, I expect the destruction of Kronos in the third JarJar universe movie , because the kids love big explosions and planets running out.
Give me back my Romulans from TNG , DS9 and ENT.
"Your Romulus is dead and won't be coming back."
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
or a medal, or command of the flagship, or the praetor's seats :P or anything but 'atta boy now I have a quest for you'
My character Tsin'xing
But why are everyone but the feds are allowed to have cloak?
In TOS, there was an episode where Kirk and Spock went over to a romulan ship and stole their cloaking device and sexy female captain respectively. They used said cloaking device to make their getaway and it didn't fry out in the process.
This opened up a plot hole towards future episodes regarding why Federation ships weren't cloaked since they had a working copy of the technology, so the writers had to add this treaty in a TNG episode.
Furthermore, in DS9 when they wanted to write in a few adventures about a cloaked Defiant, they had to have a few Romulans on the ship to "guard the cloaking device" in order to honor the treaty meantioned in TNG.
You had writing precident lead to writing precident - the longer the shows went on the more the writers had written themselves into a corner.
Which leads us to the real reason...because cloaking disrupts the "feel" of what a Federation mission usually is. They are supposed to be the straight-up open ones.
It's also making Romulan characters obsolete, since at present Fed ships have intrinsic power level advantages to counterbalance their lack of cloak. The devs typically overlook Romulans, so we're probably not going to get a power level boost.
Soooo.... some of you want to attack the Federation? And you want the Klingon Empire to help?
So you want the Klingon to attack the people that helped save their homeworld (and the Republic's homeworld too)
You want to launch an attack against a major force of the universe while fighting off Tholians, Elachi, Voth, Borg, Undine, and Iconians?
"3 Planet Killers and a Voth City Ship has made it out of the Gateway!"
"Leave it! The Federation has cloaks! Let's go attack them!"
I get it. D'Tan is no "normal" Romulan leader. Like Sela or Hakeev or Shinzon and as much you may love for the return of the good ol days, we (UFP, Klingon Empire, and Republic) have to stand as one or lose everything.
And I'm sure no Romulan ever want to feel that level of lost again.
Well frankly an actual war was obviously never going to happen but there's this diplomatic thing called "Sabre Rattling" but aside from that you seem to have totally missed the point, and general flow of the conversation in this topic. Mostly my original intent was a bit of in character RP raging at the bull cryptic is pulling by making the federation the be all faction, ignoring the other 2 fractions, and removing any sense of uniqueness those other 2 fractions might have.
also... I don't know what you think is a "normal" Romulan leader but Sela, Hakeev and Shinzon are pretty much the antithesis of a "normal" Romulan period.
Back on topic. From what it looks like the cloaks are only going to intel ships and based on what I'm reading the KDF and Romulan intel ships will still be the masters of cloaks. Let the spoonfeds have their toy. The KDF still has a stronger battlecruiser, carrier, and flight deck cruiser line then the Federation. And the Romulans have super battlecloak on everything down to the toilet and that is not the strongest thing they have.
Federation ships may out number the KDF and Romulans together but for ever 3 Starfleet ships there is one KDF/Republic ship better than them.
Also I don't anyone should be "Sabre Rattling" while a battle for our right to live is raging on. I dislike those Vulcans more then anyone but there is nothing to gain from taunting them or their human masters now.
Before you say something I'm Republic first and for most. D'tan has much for the Romulan people but it does not mean we follow him to the Vulcans' feet
The point of saber rattling is to remind politicians of military ability and to influence their decisions toward those parties. Right this moment there are cloaks going onto just intel ships that will be used in the Delta quadrant. But Star Fleet has shown a precedent of ignoring such promises when it suits them. Again referring to the actions of Captain Benjamin Sisko in his illegal use of a cloaking device in the alpha quadrant. This with his apparent lack of even modest rebuke from his commanders marks a precedent for the Federation to ignore treaty stipulations when they have the whim to do so. Ignored they will see what other 'minor issues' will slip. Perhaps a freighter of medicine for Mol'Rihan is needed to transport grain to cardassia. Well resources are tight are they not? And the freighter will return and be loaded in a few months. Assuming no other troubles occur? But a bit of saber rattling now, and they know that to push such issues is a bad idea. Having the consequence of those actions more likely to send us asking for closer ties to Federation rivals increases the delicacy of their negotiations and actions.
So I heartily disagree with you on the effectiveness of saber rattling.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
There are hawks within the KDF, Republic Navy, and even Starfleet that wish for the good old days where everyone kept their guns pointed at each other.
The rattling of sabers could be taken as the beating of war drums for these people.
And you know what? I'm somewhat ok with this but not right now.
The Alliance of the our three people right now is not as strong as it should and can be. And I don't think Starfleet fielding a new class of ship is a good enough reason to risk these weakened bonds.
As they say, "There are bigger fish to fry."
I'll gladly blow up the Federation off the skies for a crate of fresh gagh!
And while big fish fry in those fires, the small ones burn.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
indeed, and everyone knows that if Earth had been blown up by a supernova, the Enterprise would have said F*#kall to the Temporal Prime Directive and undone the damage.
I don't completely agree with this, while the RR does have nice ships the KDF doesn't...the huge majority of the KDF fleet is rather generic and falls behind anything Starfleet has.
The KDF doesn't really have a stronger BC as their best is based off the Avenger. They may have a better full carrier and FDC's...but the Feds have the DNC, HEC, and the MME's.
The KDF hasn't gotten a new original ship in over 3 years and I'm not sure if I would call these new ships they're getting *original* seeing as Starfleet is getting a Escort, Sci, and 2 Cruisers. So they may very well just be a copy of the Fed cruiser with less hull, more turn, and cannons.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Other games do exactly this, and they've been as or more successful than STO. It seems like this isn't an issue for the majority of MMO players -- most people understand that gameplay balance between factions is more important than unique abilities that throw balance way off. Cryptic has yet to learn this lesson, and it's why PVP is such a mess right now.
Speaking of...
This is exactly the problem with PVP. PVP can't thrive if one side has to draw "the short straw" in order to play, and be the perpetual victim. People talk about Feds having better scanners, but that's really just in one ship... their other ships just explode to Alpha strikes most of the time. There's no way to prepare for an Alpha strike, because that requires anticipating it.
As it stands, whenever I enter Ker'rat, if I ever see a lone ship flying around, it's always just acting as bait for its cloaked friends waiting in the wings.
What PVP needs is maps that have "gas pockets" or other environmental hazards that knock ships out of cloak. Cloaking has ruined PVP, and unless they give all Fed ships a cost-free way to detect cloaked vessels in the same way as KDF and Rom ships get cost-free cloaks, or just make Cloaking very difficult in all PVP maps, PVP is never going to improve.
Saying Feds shouldn't get cloaks just because "they drew the short straw" is just flat-out stupid.
@kodachikuno, Agreed. Amazing how if it is for the Federation it is fine but anyone else has to be stopped.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
1: Star Trek Lore:
Its bad due to its against Federation ways. As they have always tried not to sneak around and was proud. So this goes against their ways set in the shows/movies. Yes at times they did it as it created a good story or other reasons. Even the Show's creator Gene had this to say: Indicated in various interviews that "our heroes don't sneak around", indicating that the Federation made a conscious decision to not develop cloaking technology. According to Memory Alpha. Plus if they didn't want to go by that. The Federation would be cloaking since TOS days after capturing the first Romulan Cloaking Device. As it wouldn't take them long to reverse engineer it and equip it to the whole Fleet. Granted at times they did use cloaking. The most honorable way was the agreement with the Romulan with the Defiant. As both sides gained valuable info on the Dominion. In that situation it called for extreme measures. However the rest was done and was usually dealt with. Like the Pegasus and Insurrection mess. Both which didn't go well and usually ended up someone getting killed for their treachery/corruption. Or was punished via courts.
2: Game wise:
Game wise this don't help much on PVP. As now everyone can just go by the battle ground and not be spotted. To counter this. Instead of giving the Feds cloaking to match the Romulans and KDF. They should gave them sensor moves or a passive that helps detect them better. As in the past shows/movies showed the Federation eventually overcoming the cloak. The new T6 ships with their Intelligent probes/ sensors could do this. Saying now the law/rule isn't in effect. Just shows they want more freedom on the game to do what they want. Even toss some of the ideals set by the show/movies. Where which the Federation was always looked more of the good guy role. Where the war/ battle hungry KDF and sneaky/ treachery Romulans used the cloak. As it matched their roles.
3: New Items to buy:
Its all about money. Look now the Feds can get cloak on the new T6 ships. Now spend that money on them. To me this is the main driving point on why STO wants to lean away from the shows/movies always tried to stay away from. Or its a quick exit on trying to balance things out. Might as well give all factions all the stuff. So there won't be something unique about them. Which is why I play all 3. Each one has their own style.
4: I will not use it on my Federation:
As a RPer view point. I will uphold the Federation's long lasting rules on cloaking. My captain and ship will not result to flying around cloaked. So I won't use it as it don't fit well with my "hero role". If I want to sneak around. I will get on my Romulan or KDF.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
"I have to agree that the Romulan Empire no longer exists, so treaties with them are now null and void.
There is no such treaty with the Romulan Republic (as far as we know?) so it would not violate any treaty to actively pursue a Fed Cloaking Device, phased or not.
I doubt D'Tan would tell the Feds they can't research cloaking technology."
~CaptainSmirk
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Plus would D'Tan really care if the federation had cloaking tech?
He's also a PWE employee, so ofcourse he was "setting up ground" with his posts in that thread, as he was certainly aware of the 3 new cloaking ships they had ready.
It's all about the $$$.
I wouldn't use Smirk as hard facts. He is just like us, giving opinions. Only hard facts we have is what lore says.
To fix all this fuss about it. It should be added into the game via some kind of cutscene, text, mission or what ever. To say why the Feds can fully use cloaks. That way everyone can be satisfied. As the old saying goes on games. If its in the game, then its considered game lore.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
It hadn't been proved in the game either way. So its a toss up on the thoughts on this. It needs to be in a future part of the game, explaining it.
At least when they used it on the Defiant, it was explained. And made it possible to use. Where in STO they have yet to explain it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Treaty of Algeron, if it still existed in any way, and the Executive Order would have been nullified by this new arrangement with D'Tan and the Republic.
However I do agree with the comments that Cryptic was far less concerned with keeping to any expressly stated rules or lore from Star Trek than in making something a bit more random in order to make money. The idea that is a game and not traditionally seen as cannon may have signaled to Cryptic that they didn't have to play by all the rules to begin with.
That's because people have a black and white view of what's canon in regards to this game. IMO there are two forms of canon (in regards to this game) TV and Movies and what they put forth in this game. The stories the STO writers are NOT canon for Star Trek proper but are for this game.
You can argue what would Roddenberry do or the plans and hopes and dreams of TNG writers but in the end...the writers of this game are setting canon for this game...if you don't like game canon...dont play the game.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Are you serious? Alliance vs Horde in WoW? Republic vs Empire in TOR? Guardian vs Defiant in RIFT? The only MMO I can think of that have factions where the differences aren't cosmetic is Order vs Destruction in Warhammer Online, but those differences are minor.