lifetime membership ton of money already spent on lock box, cstore, fleet ship modules and now your going to tack on more expense to upgrade ships I've played with and grind grind grind to get to they point they are now.
I can tell you if its 10 bucks a ship I quit and as for your 150 dollar delta pack are you insane or do you just assume I am????? I can find other sources of entertainment you know.
I love this game but you can only push me so far dudes please think long and hard on this cause you can kill mmo's its been done before.
so please don't let greed win keep it within reason give us a long time multiple toon {29 at last count} players a break I've paid and still do often by choise, but I wont be extorted.
Cryptic/PWE... You don't care about your consumer. Prove me wrong!
I've seen the upgrade for the only ship I'd pay to upgrade to T5U11, and even though I'm impressed by the initial stats, I still won't do it. Why? It's just going to be obsolete very soon down-the-line from the information that's being released. Why bother spending money on a new-and-improved crutch if you keep making replaceable legs that will kick it out from underneath? Didn't like the crutch analogy? Here comes the car.
If I want to keep a car I like, no matter how old, I can upgrade it. I can drop in a new engine. I can change the height and the stance. I can tweak it for an American muscle or a Tuner. I can rebuild it any way I want. It's my choice to put the money into it if I want it better than new, no matter what year it was forged. This upgrade system doesn't do that.
Give us some comfort here. Give us some lovin'. Give us an option to keep upgrading our favorite rides as you churn out new models. (Upgrading to be on-par, not "competitive".) Most of us would certainly pay for these upgrades.
We're not stupid.
An 11th console and +hull/shield does not make up for that T6 Boff loadout. It's been said before, but it must be said again. The meta is found within synergy. The core source of synergy in this game is found within Boffs, not consoles. Therefore, T5U11s pretty much give us the one-finger-salute. T5Us do it with both hands.
Just let us upgrade to a full T6 and so on. Not asking for a handout here. Most of us wouldn't complain to pay for the option to keep our favorite ships from finishing last in the Antarian Trans-stellar Rally.
TL;DR : Pretty much everything that's been said before with a bit of color added to it.
this will probably get me in trouble but I would like to add. If your going to make me pay to upgrade all my ships. Make it a full UPGRADE.
I love this game and have spent a fortune over the last 3 years. I really hate the fact that it appears the powers that be spend their days thinking of new and exciting ways to jerk me over.
Now you want more money to upgrade to tier 6 light???????? if I pay I want something for my money not half step.
@marieland and bumperthumper, the sad truth is, cryptic and their defenders rather argue how its not a half step than simply understand that, WE ARE NOT HAPPY! The funny thing is people who don't play this game daily, and haven't realized the unfixed bugs, extortions, and endless grinds this game has, will say Cryptic is doing a great job and that these actions should continue. As I have proven, these particular people have no credibility, but Cryptic rather listens to them. I wonder why?
@marieland and bumperthumper, the sad truth is, cryptic and their defenders rather argue how its not a half step than simply understand that, WE ARE NOT HAPPY! The funny thing is people who don't play this game daily, and haven't realized the unfixed bugs, extortions, and endless grinds this game has, will say Cryptic is doing a great job and that these actions should continue. As I have proven, these particular people have no credibility, but Cryptic rather listens to them. I wonder why?
I DO play daily.
One thing you seem to have missed is that T5U is a LOT cheaper than buying a T6 ship. And you get what you pay for.
And no, Cryptic doesn't listen to me any more than they listen to you when it comes to marketing. Cryptic does what they see as good business.... and giving away the top of the line stuff isn't good business.
One thing you seem to have missed is that T5U is a LOT cheaper than buying a T6 ship. And you get what you pay for.
And no, Cryptic doesn't listen to me any more than they listen to you when it comes to marketing. Cryptic does what they see as good business.... and giving away the top of the line stuff isn't good business.
Who said I was talking about you? I guess you just proclaimed yourself as being that which shall not be named since its "offensive". And you just proved my point.... Instead of giving a damn about our satisfaction, You and Cryptic rather worry about money than the source of it. Its similar to the California water crisis... The state spent money into being able to make use of the water but didn't pay attention/care about where it was coming from and so now the state has a water crisis. Same holds true for Cryptic/PWE, except instead of water, it's money and the same will hold true if change is not made. Eventually the source of the money (us) will run dry if not replenished, or satisfied.
Eventually the source of the money (us) will run dry if not replenished, or satisfied.
^QFT.
If customers are unhappy, they will not return. They will, however, tell their peers to stay away from said establishment. Business 101.
If prospective customers hear from former customers on their unfortunate experience, then the "twice as many" bad vs good reviews applies, which disourages new revenue.
One thing you seem to have missed is that T5U is a LOT cheaper than buying a T6 ship. And you get what you pay for.
And no, Cryptic doesn't listen to me any more than they listen to you when it comes to marketing. Cryptic does what they see as good business.... and giving away the top of the line stuff isn't good business.
Is it, though? T5-U might be significantly cheaper than T6 if you're upgrading your free RA ship, sure. But if you're upgrading one of the C-Store ships and/or a Fleet ship, I think the total investment might end up being really close.
Granted we won't know for sure until the actual prices for upgrades and fresh T6 are revealed.
Is it, though? T5-U might be significantly cheaper than T6 if you're upgrading your free RA ship, sure. But if you're upgrading one of the C-Store ships and/or a Fleet ship, I think the total investment might end up being really close.
Granted we won't know for sure until the actual prices for upgrades and fresh T6 are revealed.
Is it, though? T5-U might be significantly cheaper than T6 if you're upgrading your free RA ship, sure. But if you're upgrading one of the C-Store ships and/or a Fleet ship, I think the total investment might end up being really close.
Granted we won't know for sure until the actual prices for upgrades and fresh T6 are revealed.
This.
The way I figure, the cost of some FleetT5U's will probably surpass, or at least equal, the cost of T6's.
Lets think about it for a mo. Taking the Regent as an example.
The T5 version costs 2500 zen. Another 500 zen for a fleet ship module. Then at least another 500 zen for the upgrade token. Not so speak of costs to get the fleet shipyard to a high enough level.
And thats for one character. Each alt would need its own FSM for another 500 zen each.
So at the barest minimum 3500 zen, though admittedly some like the excelsior will be a little less. That assumes upgrade tokens will only cost 500 zen, i think they mentioned somewhere it could be anywhere from 500 to 1000 zen.
The biggest cost/time losers are in my mind the lockbox ships, lobi ships and 3 pack ships.
Of course we cant know anything for sure till we get some hard figures. But I cant imagine any single T6 ship costing much more than 3500.
I'm just glad I didnt get the Gal-3 pack. 4000 zen, plus the FSM costs then upgrade token costs only to be inferior to that hideous Eclipse class, which will probably be cheaper? I think Id puke.
EDIT:
The free RA ships dont get an upgrade. The only "free" ships to get an upgrade iirc are the Breen and Risian ships (which is really weird imo, since I probably spent less than 2 hours total grinding for mine).
Got a cat? Have 10 minutes to help someone make the best degree dissertation of all time?
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
i've been playing this game for going on 3 years myself back when a Call to arms was fresh off the presses so to speak, in my opinion i don't see why we even bother argueing over the Tier 5 ship upgrades, we all know they will cost SOMETHING be it Zen, Dil, lobi, or EC etc.... this supposedly free to play game is exactly what it says, FREE TO PLAY, that's about where it stops if you reach level cap, the big clue there should have been no free ship at LVL 50 as you had recieved at 40,30, 20 , 10 etc.
Regardless of what the currency is that is required we all know 9 times out of 10 the biggest opponents of said changes are usually the FIRST ones to cave in and make said purchase because they can't bear to not be " top dog" .
Basicly what i'm saying is this guys, stop argueing about this and let's have a constructive conversation here, as for my humble opinion i think the upgrades should be free for every tier 5 ship you currently own, and IF/when you purchase new ones THEN you have to pay for said upgrade, and Fleets should have an option to invest in a project that offsets the cost by changing the currency type for its members such as when using Fleet modules/credits/dil to buy Fleet ships.......
That is a WHOLE other issue that kind of goes along with this as well, Zen is required to purchase fleet mods unless you want to pay ridiculously high EC costs on exchange, so technicly you're paying $$$ for fleet ships too. So we're already "paying to upgrade our T5 " to fleet ship variants.
i don't recall seeing this much of a stink over that soooooo why now when it's essentially the same thing?
i don't recall seeing this much of a stink over that soooooo why now when it's essentially the same thing?
Think of the player that Cryptic has tried to get to play the game since S5/S6...
...different kind of player. So you're seeing stink about things that have happened before (many situations) where the stink was not the same previously.
@marieland and bumperthumper, the sad truth is, cryptic and their defenders rather argue how its not a half step than simply understand that, WE ARE NOT HAPPY! The funny thing is people who don't play this game daily, and haven't realized the unfixed bugs, extortions, and endless grinds this game has, will say Cryptic is doing a great job and that these actions should continue. As I have proven, these particular people have no credibility, but Cryptic rather listens to them. I wonder why?
One thing you seem to have missed is that T5U is a LOT cheaper than buying a T6 ship. And you get what you pay for.
And no, Cryptic doesn't listen to me any more than they listen to you when it comes to marketing. Cryptic does what they see as good business.... and giving away the top of the line stuff isn't good business.
Who said I was talking about you? I guess you just proclaimed yourself as being that which shall not be named since its "offensive". And you just proved my point.... Instead of giving a damn about our satisfaction, You and Cryptic rather worry about money than the source of it. Its similar to the California water crisis... The state spent money into being able to make use of the water but didn't pay attention/care about where it was coming from and so now the state has a water crisis. Same holds true for Cryptic/PWE, except instead of water, it's money and the same will hold true if change is not made. Eventually the source of the money (us) will run dry if not replenished, or satisfied.
Let me shed some - perspective - on the situation...
I once worked in an internet call center - fixing problems people had with their internet service. All aspects of it, even billing. One day, I had a fine lady call in and "insist" that we give her a massive credit for her "spotty" service etc. In an attempt to put this credit request into perspective, I asked her what she did for a living. She claimed she sold jewelry. I asked her what she would do if I bought a $1,000 necklace and attempted to return it asking for $10,000 because it turned my wife's neck green? She replied she would flat out deny the request - eventually laughing me out of the store for being "so ridiculous". When I asked her why she expected me to do the "internet company equivalent" of what she clearly wouldn't do for her own customers, she said that because we were a different company we aren't bound by her "common sense morals" and needs to do what she wants - just short of actually playing the "because the customer is always right" card. When I attempted to use said "counter" argument in the jewelry example - by nearly invoking the "customer is always right" card myself, same thing again - she doesn't have to be bound by "customer is always right" when she's the salesperson, but when she's the customer she's always right. Suffice it to say, I elected to let my supervisor "practically laugh her off the phone" after 20 minutes of "if it's not good enough for you, why is it mandatory for me?"
I see a lot of this in the "free T5U" upgrade argument. This is why I went off before, and avoided the thread for so long. When you run a F2P MMO, and you face the crunch of pleasing the playerbase, the bosses, accountants telling you they need money to pay the bills, etc. etc. that goes into running the game - what are you going to do? Give everything to the playerbase and essentially rely on their generosity to keep the lights on - or attempt to entice (what we commonly call milking) the customers into paying again?
If I had to put this into a real-world analogy, look at "fashion" - as it seems to run the closest to the service model we're getting... Is that dress from last year so clearly unable to perform it's duties of keeping someone covered? Probably not (think T5.5 in DR). Is that dress going to look "fashionable" today? Again, probably not (think lack of powers on said T5.5). Is tacking a new scarf onto said dress if scarves are the thing (T5U) going to make the dress look a little better but maybe not have the right frills on the blouse-part, and the clutch that came with it can't hold that phablet phone - situations that can only be remedied by "keeping up with this year's fashion trends for all the outrageous sums of money required to do so" (aka going all-out T6)?
And yes, if someone were to think there's a bit of taint in that statement, I'm one of those "jeans and t-shirts" type guys who doesn't do the "fashionable scene" where I have to look stylish, and proudly fit my high school clothes for 10 years after I graduated - still have a Patriots shirt in the closet from the days when they made those "jersey sleeves but regular cloth" things instead of selling "game identical" jerseys for $100... Am I, however, contemplating a touch of "STO fashion" in that I might wind up with a T6 or 2 as budget allows? Yeah, I am... Also waiting to see what the "non intelligence" T6s bring - as the Sci Intel ship definitely needs some work in the looks department...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The way I figure, the cost of some FleetT5U's will probably surpass, or at least equal, the cost of T6's.
Lets think about it for a mo. Taking the Regent as an example.
The T5 version costs 2500 zen. Another 500 zen for a fleet ship module. Then at least another 500 zen for the upgrade token. Not so speak of costs to get the fleet shipyard to a high enough level.
And thats for one character. Each alt would need its own FSM for another 500 zen each.
So at the barest minimum 3500 zen, though admittedly some like the excelsior will be a little less. That assumes upgrade tokens will only cost 500 zen, i think they mentioned somewhere it could be anywhere from 500 to 1000 zen.
The biggest cost/time losers are in my mind the lockbox ships, lobi ships and 3 pack ships.
Of course we cant know anything for sure till we get some hard figures. But I cant imagine any single T6 ship costing much more than 3500.
I'm just glad I didnt get the Gal-3 pack. 4000 zen, plus the FSM costs then upgrade token costs only to be inferior to that hideous Eclipse class, which will probably be cheaper? I think Id puke.
EDIT:
The free RA ships dont get an upgrade. The only "free" ships to get an upgrade iirc are the Breen and Risian ships (which is really weird imo, since I probably spent less than 2 hours total grinding for mine).
Agreed. (And the fact that RA ships don't get an upgrade only helps this argument.)
Look, I'm not even advocating for free upgrades for the T5 to T6/T5-U ships. I have no qualms grinding or paying for the upgrade (indeed, that's what I'd expect). I just think it's silly to differentiate between T5-U and T6. And if it meant grinding or paying a little more so that it DOES cost the same to get a T5-U ship as compared to a fresh T6 ship so that the two tiers could have equal (not "competitive") performance, I think a lot of players would do it.
But as it is, the costs are probably going to come out pretty close, but I don't think the performance is going to be commensurably close.
Agreed. (And the fact that RA ships don't get an upgrade only helps this argument.)
Look, I'm not even advocating for free upgrades for the T5 to T6/T5-U ships. I have no qualms grinding or paying for the upgrade (indeed, that's what I'd expect). I just think it's silly to differentiate between T5-U and T6. And if it meant grinding or paying a little more so that it DOES cost the same to get a T5-U ship as compared to a fresh T6 ship so that the two tiers could have equal (not "competitive") performance, I think a lot of players would do it.
But as it is, the costs are probably going to come out pretty close, but I don't think the performance is going to be commensurably close.
Great point. so how far back in this thread to I have to hunt to get to the part about the upgrade plans not being good enough? Why not include in the upgrade some Boff capabilities/slots now that we know more about what they will be? Wouldn't that make the investment worth the effort?
It's just "Dr Doom" Roubini
Refugee from those other games!
Let me shed some - perspective - on the situation...
I once worked in an internet call center - fixing problems people had with their internet service. All aspects of it, even billing. One day, I had a fine lady call in and "insist" that we give her a massive credit for her "spotty" service etc. In an attempt to put this credit request into perspective, I asked her what she did for a living. She claimed she sold jewelry. I asked her what she would do if I bought a $1,000 necklace and attempted to return it asking for $10,000 because it turned my wife's neck green? She replied she would flat out deny the request - eventually laughing me out of the store for being "so ridiculous". When I asked her why she expected me to do the "internet company equivalent" of what she clearly wouldn't do for her own customers, she said that because we were a different company we aren't bound by her "common sense morals" and needs to do what she wants - just short of actually playing the "because the customer is always right" card. When I attempted to use said "counter" argument in the jewelry example - by nearly invoking the "customer is always right" card myself, same thing again - she doesn't have to be bound by "customer is always right" when she's the salesperson, but when she's the customer she's always right. Suffice it to say, I elected to let my supervisor "practically laugh her off the phone" after 20 minutes of "if it's not good enough for you, why is it mandatory for me?"
I see a lot of this in the "free T5U" upgrade argument. This is why I went off before, and avoided the thread for so long. When you run a F2P MMO, and you face the crunch of pleasing the playerbase, the bosses, accountants telling you they need money to pay the bills, etc. etc. that goes into running the game - what are you going to do? Give everything to the playerbase and essentially rely on their generosity to keep the lights on - or attempt to entice (what we commonly call milking) the customers into paying again?
If I had to put this into a real-world analogy, look at "fashion" - as it seems to run the closest to the service model we're getting... Is that dress from last year so clearly unable to perform it's duties of keeping someone covered? Probably not (think T5.5 in DR). Is that dress going to look "fashionable" today? Again, probably not (think lack of powers on said T5.5). Is tacking a new scarf onto said dress if scarves are the thing (T5U) going to make the dress look a little better but maybe not have the right frills on the blouse-part, and the clutch that came with it can't hold that phablet phone - situations that can only be remedied by "keeping up with this year's fashion trends for all the outrageous sums of money required to do so" (aka going all-out T6)?
And yes, if someone were to think there's a bit of taint in that statement, I'm one of those "jeans and t-shirts" type guys who doesn't do the "fashionable scene" where I have to look stylish, and proudly fit my high school clothes for 10 years after I graduated - still have a Patriots shirt in the closet from the days when they made those "jersey sleeves but regular cloth" things instead of selling "game identical" jerseys for $100... Am I, however, contemplating a touch of "STO fashion" in that I might wind up with a T6 or 2 as budget allows? Yeah, I am... Also waiting to see what the "non intelligence" T6s bring - as the Sci Intel ship definitely needs some work in the looks department...
I think you're right about them needing to charge us for upgrades - personally I never had a problem with that side of it. Apart from the T5U system Im actually really optimistic about DR as a season.
That said, I do think if we're going to pay for an upgrade it should bring us to full T6, with the opportunity to upgrade again to Fleet Tier 6 down the line. I do believe that this would encourage zen purchases to pick up upgrade tokens, fleet ship modules and T5 ships and in turn keep the game profitable.
The biggest irony to me is that I would have invested in a new T6 even if I could get my excelsior and charal up to par. The Guardian and non-intel Rom Warbird both look delicious.
The only differences now are that I wont be spending on upgrade tokens, and that I have lost a lot of trust in cryptic's word.
Its a little galling to me that they keep telling us that T5U will be competitive with T6. From what we know, it is not competitive. And certainly not with the Fleet T6's.
My current, un-upgraded Fleet Excelsior will likely steamroll the new story content. And probably the new "Advanced" queues as well (I heard that they're buffing the difficulty on the current elite queues and renaming them as advanced, though I doubt theyll be that challenging).
But when it comes to PVP, the "new Elite" queues and Ranked content it will be at a very profound disadvantage. While I get thats (understandably) not important to a big portion of the playerbase, it is to me and many others. And from what we know, the T6's will kick the butt of T5Us.
If it aint competitive in competitive content, but does perfectly everywhere else, why should I bother upgrading it if I'm going to be getting a T6 anyway for said new content?
Got a cat? Have 10 minutes to help someone make the best degree dissertation of all time?
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
Trying to have a constructive conversation here is basically pointless, I'm afraid.
Some have posted their ideas of a compromise, which is good for the conversation. However, compromise means both parties agree to a little give and take. Some of the posters here do not care to see the other side of the fence and anyone who disagreed with them and pointed out the flaws in their thinking, were lumped into a category of Cryptic/PWE fanboys.
For example: Cryptic's current plan is for us to pay to upgrade certain ships. These upgraded ships do not gain the Tier 5 mastery (which unlocks a new starship trait), an additional Bridge Officer ability, and does not gain a Specialist Bridge Officer seat (which not all Tier 6 ships will gain).
Some posters idea of a compromise is for Cryptic to give us the upgrades for free. No other quarter given.
Other posters asked, that if since we have to pay, to have the ships be given true T6 upgrades, so there is no difference between the T6 and the T5 upgrades. A slightly different version of this was to also grant the additional Bridge Officer ability to the T5 upgrades, on top of Cryptic's current plan.
If one would assign a point for each extra the T6 ships have over the T5U ships would look something like this:
T6 Ships
Scaling HP from 50 to 60: 1
Additional Console Slot: 1
Starship Mastery Levels: 1 (1 point for 4 levels, as the Trait is listed separately on the blog post)
Starship Trait: 1
Additional Bridge Officer Ability: 1
Specialist Bridge Officer Seat: 0.5 (awarded a half point as not all T6 ships will have this)
Total: 5.5
Personally I would have given the Additional Bridge Officer Seat 2 points, as it can usually trump an extra console slot depending on what level that ability is and how the player sets up the ability to be without conflict with other abilities.
Now trying to get both sides to agree to a little give and take, is going to be difficult. There is too much in-fighting with the player base on what they consider to be a compromise.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Thing is, one has to take a look at the various parts - all the parts - not just the major parts, because there's little things here and there that are traded off for this and that. Can really do the blanket comparison.
Will help more when we see the normal T6 ships, to see how what the Intel T6 ships traded balances or not for those so we can compare both the T6 and Intel T6 to the T5-U 10 console ships...since we don't have the Fleet T6 ships yet for the comparison to the T5-U 11 console ships. Given that Cryptic wants us to see T5U-10 ~ T6 and T5U-11 ~ FT6.
Kind of like the T6 Intel blog gives us this for those particular T6 ships...
Faster and more agile than non-intel ships of the same category
Less hull strength (HP) than non-intel ships of the same category
Cloaking Device
Starfleet Intel ships have a standard Cloak
Klingon Intel ships have Battle Cloak
Romulan Intel ships have Enhanced Romulan Battle Cloak
Can equip Dual Cannons
All Intel ships are Tier 6, so include standard features for this tier
Scaling HP
Starship Mastery passive abilities
Starship Trait
Have a Commander hybrid Intelligence bridge officer seat
Have at least one other lower rank hybrid Intelligence bridge officer seat
Have the Gather Intelligence mechanic
So we can expect the non-Intel T6 to be slower, less agile, and have more HP than the Intel T6, eh?
One thing you seem to have missed is that T5U is a LOT cheaper than buying a T6 ship. And you get what you pay for.
And no, Cryptic doesn't listen to me any more than they listen to you when it comes to marketing. Cryptic does what they see as good business.... and giving away the top of the line stuff isn't good business.
I have no problem with corporations making money. I know they need to pay their tec's and programmers and show a profit as well.
If they make a product that is great I find myself wanting to buy it. I bought the avenger and liked it so much I couldn't wait till I could buy the fleet ship module to make it even better.
What I do take exception to is to be painted into a corner where I'm extorted into buying a sub standard product just to remain competitive when the very nature of the product means I wont be.
IE give up all the ships you love and have spent a fortune on, and buy one of these hand full of ships even though they are ugly and you don't really want them. If you don't you will always be a half step behind those that did.
So I'm not asking for them to give me anything!!! all I'm asking for form the game I have spent years of loyal playing time and a great great deal of money nearly 1000 dollars. is simple let me [us] upgrade our ships. the full upgrade so our ships are same as the t6 whoopee doo ugly things you've slapped together you made the dyson ships look cool what happened here??
But I digress beauty is in eye of beholder. If you want me to pay make it worth while and I will, but to force me into paying for half an upgrade just so I can continue to fly my fleet defiant, avenger, multi vec, oddy, ect. ect. feels like a slap in the face.
With a lot of the way Cryptic is putting things (and I'm not necessarily buying it, mind you); it kind of makes folks looking to upgrade their T5 boats to T6 like somebody asking to upgrade their Ha'feh to a Scimitar.
Let me shed some - perspective - on the situation...
I once worked in an internet call center - fixing problems people had with their internet service. All aspects of it, even billing. One day, I had a fine lady call in and "insist" that we give her a massive credit for her "spotty" service etc. In an attempt to put this credit request into perspective, I asked her what she did for a living. She claimed she sold jewelry. I asked her what she would do if I bought a $1,000 necklace and attempted to return it asking for $10,000 because it turned my wife's neck green? She replied she would flat out deny the request - eventually laughing me out of the store for being "so ridiculous". When I asked her why she expected me to do the "internet company equivalent" of what she clearly wouldn't do for her own customers, she said that because we were a different company we aren't bound by her "common sense morals" and needs to do what she wants - just short of actually playing the "because the customer is always right" card. When I attempted to use said "counter" argument in the jewelry example - by nearly invoking the "customer is always right" card myself, same thing again - she doesn't have to be bound by "customer is always right" when she's the salesperson, but when she's the customer she's always right. Suffice it to say, I elected to let my supervisor "practically laugh her off the phone" after 20 minutes of "if it's not good enough for you, why is it mandatory for me?"
I see a lot of this in the "free T5U" upgrade argument. This is why I went off before, and avoided the thread for so long. When you run a F2P MMO, and you face the crunch of pleasing the playerbase, the bosses, accountants telling you they need money to pay the bills, etc. etc. that goes into running the game - what are you going to do? Give everything to the playerbase and essentially rely on their generosity to keep the lights on - or attempt to entice (what we commonly call milking) the customers into paying again?
If I had to put this into a real-world analogy, look at "fashion" - as it seems to run the closest to the service model we're getting... Is that dress from last year so clearly unable to perform it's duties of keeping someone covered? Probably not (think T5.5 in DR). Is that dress going to look "fashionable" today? Again, probably not (think lack of powers on said T5.5). Is tacking a new scarf onto said dress if scarves are the thing (T5U) going to make the dress look a little better but maybe not have the right frills on the blouse-part, and the clutch that came with it can't hold that phablet phone - situations that can only be remedied by "keeping up with this year's fashion trends for all the outrageous sums of money required to do so" (aka going all-out T6)?
And yes, if someone were to think there's a bit of taint in that statement, I'm one of those "jeans and t-shirts" type guys who doesn't do the "fashionable scene" where I have to look stylish, and proudly fit my high school clothes for 10 years after I graduated - still have a Patriots shirt in the closet from the days when they made those "jersey sleeves but regular cloth" things instead of selling "game identical" jerseys for $100... Am I, however, contemplating a touch of "STO fashion" in that I might wind up with a T6 or 2 as budget allows? Yeah, I am... Also waiting to see what the "non intelligence" T6s bring - as the Sci Intel ship definitely needs some work in the looks department...
Your examples are intriguing and present an interesting point. However, the first example does not work for everyone and the second just does not apply.
In your first point you mentioned, what I would call, a mutual understanding between companies and/or their representatives. This does not apply to everyone since not every consumer or customer has a business of their own with that similar model (myself included). In cases with MMOs, the customer IS always right, unlike a cable company. Without us the game would not be here today. But a cable company can have no customers and still be getting paid because they could provide services to government establishments, military bases, etc etc. This opportunity is seldom available to game companies.
To your second point, I will put it very simply: My ships do not go out of style, because they are Trek canon. These new ships are not. I agree with marielang, I'm not necessarily asking for anything free (as much as it would be,actually, nice for them to do considering it would be no sweat off their backs). One thing everyone needs to learn is that this video game does NOT apply to real life for obvious reasons. It isn't real life (similar to Trek's idea of an alternate universe, our laws of physics do not apply). So any comparison between the game and real life holds no water. "But...But...but..., its a business. That's real. We...we..we.. should just keep forking out money because we need to all hail the mighty dollar and do our part in making this game great". If you can't see the flaw in this. I have no time for you.
With a lot of the way Cryptic is putting things (and I'm not necessarily buying it, mind you); it kind of makes folks looking to upgrade their T5 boats to T6 like somebody asking to upgrade their Ha'feh to a Scimitar.
It's really more like asking to upgrade the T4.5 ships (Valiant/Bellephoron/Venture) to T5, isn't it? But that upgrade path is buying the retrofit outright at T5.
Let me shed some - perspective - on the situation...
I once worked in an internet call center - fixing problems people had with their internet service. All aspects of it, even billing. One day, I had a fine lady call in and "insist" that we give her a massive credit for her "spotty" service etc. In an attempt to put this credit request into perspective, I asked her what she did for a living. She claimed she sold jewelry. I asked her what she would do if I bought a $1,000 necklace and attempted to return it asking for $10,000 because it turned my wife's neck green? She replied she would flat out deny the request - eventually laughing me out of the store for being "so ridiculous". When I asked her why she expected me to do the "internet company equivalent" of what she clearly wouldn't do for her own customers, she said that because we were a different company we aren't bound by her "common sense morals" and needs to do what she wants - just short of actually playing the "because the customer is always right" card. When I attempted to use said "counter" argument in the jewelry example - by nearly invoking the "customer is always right" card myself, same thing again - she doesn't have to be bound by "customer is always right" when she's the salesperson, but when she's the customer she's always right. Suffice it to say, I elected to let my supervisor "practically laugh her off the phone" after 20 minutes of "if it's not good enough for you, why is it mandatory for me?"
I see a lot of this in the "free T5U" upgrade argument. This is why I went off before, and avoided the thread for so long. When you run a F2P MMO, and you face the crunch of pleasing the playerbase, the bosses, accountants telling you they need money to pay the bills, etc. etc. that goes into running the game - what are you going to do? Give everything to the playerbase and essentially rely on their generosity to keep the lights on - or attempt to entice (what we commonly call milking) the customers into paying again?
If I had to put this into a real-world analogy, look at "fashion" - as it seems to run the closest to the service model we're getting... Is that dress from last year so clearly unable to perform it's duties of keeping someone covered? Probably not (think T5.5 in DR). Is that dress going to look "fashionable" today? Again, probably not (think lack of powers on said T5.5). Is tacking a new scarf onto said dress if scarves are the thing (T5U) going to make the dress look a little better but maybe not have the right frills on the blouse-part, and the clutch that came with it can't hold that phablet phone - situations that can only be remedied by "keeping up with this year's fashion trends for all the outrageous sums of money required to do so" (aka going all-out T6)?
And yes, if someone were to think there's a bit of taint in that statement, I'm one of those "jeans and t-shirts" type guys who doesn't do the "fashionable scene" where I have to look stylish, and proudly fit my high school clothes for 10 years after I graduated - still have a Patriots shirt in the closet from the days when they made those "jersey sleeves but regular cloth" things instead of selling "game identical" jerseys for $100... Am I, however, contemplating a touch of "STO fashion" in that I might wind up with a T6 or 2 as budget allows? Yeah, I am... Also waiting to see what the "non intelligence" T6s bring - as the Sci Intel ship definitely needs some work in the looks department...
The thing is, yes Cryptic and PWE needs money to keep the game running, and yes you could say that's a good reason to charge for ship upgrades, however, that's only applying to cash shop and fleet ships not to lobi and lock box ships which are getting thrown a freebie so why should people who want a freebie for their cash shop or fleet ships feel bad for it when people using lobi and lock box ships are getting it free? Or why not just make everyone pay? or make upgrades cost dilithium so it could go either way depending on how someone chooses to get the dilithium? Depending on what cash shop ship it is anyway someones still getting hosed.
Some of the T5 cash shop ships are already sub par like the Odyssey, all those people get for the money is for their ships to be a tiiiny bit less sub par compared to other T5 ships.
The thing is, yes Cryptic and PWE needs money to keep the game running, and yes you could say that's a good reason to charge for ship upgrades, however, that's only applying to cash shop and fleet ships not to lobi and lock box ships which are getting thrown a freebie so why should people who want a freebie for their cash shop or fleet ships feel bad for it when people using lobi and lock box ships are getting it free? Or why not just make everyone pay? or make upgrades cost dilithium so it could go either way depending on how someone chooses to get the dilithium? Depending on what cash shop ship it is anyway someones still getting hosed.
Some of the T5 cash shop ships are already sub par like the Odyssey, all those people get for the money is for their ships to be a tiiiny bit less sub par compared to other T5 ships.
The lockbox and lobi ships are getting free upgrades because the average investment per ship was a lot more than the cash shop or fleet ships. Using the Temporal lock box for example. According to the STO gamepedia (http://sto.gamepedia.com/Temporal_Lock_Box) there is a 0.41% chance of getting the Temporal Science Vessel. Using the same method that is used for procs (1/0.0041), the number of boxes to open for a Temporal Science Vessel is about 244 lockboxs. At 125 zen per key, that is 30,500 zen. Now the Temporal Destroyer worth 800 lobi and getting an average 5.44826 lobi per Temporal lockbox, comes out to 147 boxes. 147 keys, costing 18375 zen.
So with the lockbox ship averaging a cost of 30,500 zen and the lobi ships averaging a cost of 18,375 zen; compared to a cash shop ship that cost 2,500 zen; it is understandable that the lockbox and lobi get free upgrades. They had an already HUGE investment versus the cash shop and fleet ships.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
The lockbox and lobi ships are getting free upgrades because the average investment per ship was a lot more than the cash shop or fleet ships. Using the Temporal lock box for example. According to the STO gamepedia (http://sto.gamepedia.com/Temporal_Lock_Box) there is a 0.41% chance of getting the Temporal Science Vessel. Using the same method that is used for procs (1/0.0041), the number of boxes to open for a Temporal Science Vessel is about 244 lockboxs. At 125 zen per key, that is 30,500 zen. Now the Temporal Destroyer worth 800 lobi and getting an average 5.44826 lobi per Temporal lockbox, comes out to 147 boxes. 147 keys, costing 18375 zen.
So with the lockbox ship averaging a cost of 30,500 zen and the lobi ships averaging a cost of 18,375 zen; compared to a cash shop ship that cost 2,500 zen; it is understandable that the lockbox and lobi get free upgrades. They had an already HUGE investment versus the cash shop and fleet ships.
Which is extortion. Instead of making the game fun they implemented a lottery system. As far as trek is concerned, Dabo should be the only gambling in the game. Its one thing to make money to keep the game running, its another thing entirely to keep the game running to make money.
Which is extortion. Instead of making the game fun they implemented a lottery system. As far as trek is concerned, Dabo should be the only gambling in the game. Its one thing to make money to keep the game running, its another thing entirely to keep the game running to make money.
In reality Perfect World implemented their standard business model. Your money is now their money.
Comments
Cryptic/PWE... You don't care about your consumer. Prove me wrong!
If I want to keep a car I like, no matter how old, I can upgrade it. I can drop in a new engine. I can change the height and the stance. I can tweak it for an American muscle or a Tuner. I can rebuild it any way I want. It's my choice to put the money into it if I want it better than new, no matter what year it was forged. This upgrade system doesn't do that.
If I were to buy a car off the lot and the only option was "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black", I'd just walk away.
Give us some comfort here. Give us some lovin'. Give us an option to keep upgrading our favorite rides as you churn out new models. (Upgrading to be on-par, not "competitive".) Most of us would certainly pay for these upgrades.
We're not stupid.
An 11th console and +hull/shield does not make up for that T6 Boff loadout. It's been said before, but it must be said again. The meta is found within synergy. The core source of synergy in this game is found within Boffs, not consoles. Therefore, T5U11s pretty much give us the one-finger-salute. T5Us do it with both hands.
Just let us upgrade to a full T6 and so on. Not asking for a handout here. Most of us wouldn't complain to pay for the option to keep our favorite ships from finishing last in the Antarian Trans-stellar Rally.
TL;DR : Pretty much everything that's been said before with a bit of color added to it.
I love this game and have spent a fortune over the last 3 years. I really hate the fact that it appears the powers that be spend their days thinking of new and exciting ways to jerk me over.
Now you want more money to upgrade to tier 6 light???????? if I pay I want something for my money not half step.
One thing you seem to have missed is that T5U is a LOT cheaper than buying a T6 ship. And you get what you pay for.
And no, Cryptic doesn't listen to me any more than they listen to you when it comes to marketing. Cryptic does what they see as good business.... and giving away the top of the line stuff isn't good business.
My character Tsin'xing
Who said I was talking about you? I guess you just proclaimed yourself as being that which shall not be named since its "offensive". And you just proved my point.... Instead of giving a damn about our satisfaction, You and Cryptic rather worry about money than the source of it. Its similar to the California water crisis... The state spent money into being able to make use of the water but didn't pay attention/care about where it was coming from and so now the state has a water crisis. Same holds true for Cryptic/PWE, except instead of water, it's money and the same will hold true if change is not made. Eventually the source of the money (us) will run dry if not replenished, or satisfied.
^QFT.
If customers are unhappy, they will not return. They will, however, tell their peers to stay away from said establishment. Business 101.
If prospective customers hear from former customers on their unfortunate experience, then the "twice as many" bad vs good reviews applies, which disourages new revenue.
How much room do you have? ��
Is it, though? T5-U might be significantly cheaper than T6 if you're upgrading your free RA ship, sure. But if you're upgrading one of the C-Store ships and/or a Fleet ship, I think the total investment might end up being really close.
Granted we won't know for sure until the actual prices for upgrades and fresh T6 are revealed.
RA ships don't get an upgrade
This.
The way I figure, the cost of some FleetT5U's will probably surpass, or at least equal, the cost of T6's.
Lets think about it for a mo. Taking the Regent as an example.
The T5 version costs 2500 zen. Another 500 zen for a fleet ship module. Then at least another 500 zen for the upgrade token. Not so speak of costs to get the fleet shipyard to a high enough level.
And thats for one character. Each alt would need its own FSM for another 500 zen each.
So at the barest minimum 3500 zen, though admittedly some like the excelsior will be a little less. That assumes upgrade tokens will only cost 500 zen, i think they mentioned somewhere it could be anywhere from 500 to 1000 zen.
The biggest cost/time losers are in my mind the lockbox ships, lobi ships and 3 pack ships.
Of course we cant know anything for sure till we get some hard figures. But I cant imagine any single T6 ship costing much more than 3500.
I'm just glad I didnt get the Gal-3 pack. 4000 zen, plus the FSM costs then upgrade token costs only to be inferior to that hideous Eclipse class, which will probably be cheaper? I think Id puke.
EDIT:
The free RA ships dont get an upgrade. The only "free" ships to get an upgrade iirc are the Breen and Risian ships (which is really weird imo, since I probably spent less than 2 hours total grinding for mine).
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
Regardless of what the currency is that is required we all know 9 times out of 10 the biggest opponents of said changes are usually the FIRST ones to cave in and make said purchase because they can't bear to not be " top dog" .
Basicly what i'm saying is this guys, stop argueing about this and let's have a constructive conversation here, as for my humble opinion i think the upgrades should be free for every tier 5 ship you currently own, and IF/when you purchase new ones THEN you have to pay for said upgrade, and Fleets should have an option to invest in a project that offsets the cost by changing the currency type for its members such as when using Fleet modules/credits/dil to buy Fleet ships.......
That is a WHOLE other issue that kind of goes along with this as well, Zen is required to purchase fleet mods unless you want to pay ridiculously high EC costs on exchange, so technicly you're paying $$$ for fleet ships too. So we're already "paying to upgrade our T5 " to fleet ship variants.
i don't recall seeing this much of a stink over that soooooo why now when it's essentially the same thing?
why not their technically T5 .
Think of the player that Cryptic has tried to get to play the game since S5/S6...
...different kind of player. So you're seeing stink about things that have happened before (many situations) where the stink was not the same previously.
Here's your list of upgradeable ships: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002163
Let me shed some - perspective - on the situation...
I once worked in an internet call center - fixing problems people had with their internet service. All aspects of it, even billing. One day, I had a fine lady call in and "insist" that we give her a massive credit for her "spotty" service etc. In an attempt to put this credit request into perspective, I asked her what she did for a living. She claimed she sold jewelry. I asked her what she would do if I bought a $1,000 necklace and attempted to return it asking for $10,000 because it turned my wife's neck green? She replied she would flat out deny the request - eventually laughing me out of the store for being "so ridiculous". When I asked her why she expected me to do the "internet company equivalent" of what she clearly wouldn't do for her own customers, she said that because we were a different company we aren't bound by her "common sense morals" and needs to do what she wants - just short of actually playing the "because the customer is always right" card. When I attempted to use said "counter" argument in the jewelry example - by nearly invoking the "customer is always right" card myself, same thing again - she doesn't have to be bound by "customer is always right" when she's the salesperson, but when she's the customer she's always right. Suffice it to say, I elected to let my supervisor "practically laugh her off the phone" after 20 minutes of "if it's not good enough for you, why is it mandatory for me?"
I see a lot of this in the "free T5U" upgrade argument. This is why I went off before, and avoided the thread for so long. When you run a F2P MMO, and you face the crunch of pleasing the playerbase, the bosses, accountants telling you they need money to pay the bills, etc. etc. that goes into running the game - what are you going to do? Give everything to the playerbase and essentially rely on their generosity to keep the lights on - or attempt to entice (what we commonly call milking) the customers into paying again?
If I had to put this into a real-world analogy, look at "fashion" - as it seems to run the closest to the service model we're getting... Is that dress from last year so clearly unable to perform it's duties of keeping someone covered? Probably not (think T5.5 in DR). Is that dress going to look "fashionable" today? Again, probably not (think lack of powers on said T5.5). Is tacking a new scarf onto said dress if scarves are the thing (T5U) going to make the dress look a little better but maybe not have the right frills on the blouse-part, and the clutch that came with it can't hold that phablet phone - situations that can only be remedied by "keeping up with this year's fashion trends for all the outrageous sums of money required to do so" (aka going all-out T6)?
And yes, if someone were to think there's a bit of taint in that statement, I'm one of those "jeans and t-shirts" type guys who doesn't do the "fashionable scene" where I have to look stylish, and proudly fit my high school clothes for 10 years after I graduated - still have a Patriots shirt in the closet from the days when they made those "jersey sleeves but regular cloth" things instead of selling "game identical" jerseys for $100... Am I, however, contemplating a touch of "STO fashion" in that I might wind up with a T6 or 2 as budget allows? Yeah, I am... Also waiting to see what the "non intelligence" T6s bring - as the Sci Intel ship definitely needs some work in the looks department...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Agreed. (And the fact that RA ships don't get an upgrade only helps this argument.)
Look, I'm not even advocating for free upgrades for the T5 to T6/T5-U ships. I have no qualms grinding or paying for the upgrade (indeed, that's what I'd expect). I just think it's silly to differentiate between T5-U and T6. And if it meant grinding or paying a little more so that it DOES cost the same to get a T5-U ship as compared to a fresh T6 ship so that the two tiers could have equal (not "competitive") performance, I think a lot of players would do it.
But as it is, the costs are probably going to come out pretty close, but I don't think the performance is going to be commensurably close.
Great point. so how far back in this thread to I have to hunt to get to the part about the upgrade plans not being good enough? Why not include in the upgrade some Boff capabilities/slots now that we know more about what they will be? Wouldn't that make the investment worth the effort?
It's just "Dr Doom" Roubini
Refugee from those other games!
I think you're right about them needing to charge us for upgrades - personally I never had a problem with that side of it. Apart from the T5U system Im actually really optimistic about DR as a season.
That said, I do think if we're going to pay for an upgrade it should bring us to full T6, with the opportunity to upgrade again to Fleet Tier 6 down the line. I do believe that this would encourage zen purchases to pick up upgrade tokens, fleet ship modules and T5 ships and in turn keep the game profitable.
The biggest irony to me is that I would have invested in a new T6 even if I could get my excelsior and charal up to par. The Guardian and non-intel Rom Warbird both look delicious.
The only differences now are that I wont be spending on upgrade tokens, and that I have lost a lot of trust in cryptic's word.
Its a little galling to me that they keep telling us that T5U will be competitive with T6. From what we know, it is not competitive. And certainly not with the Fleet T6's.
My current, un-upgraded Fleet Excelsior will likely steamroll the new story content. And probably the new "Advanced" queues as well (I heard that they're buffing the difficulty on the current elite queues and renaming them as advanced, though I doubt theyll be that challenging).
But when it comes to PVP, the "new Elite" queues and Ranked content it will be at a very profound disadvantage. While I get thats (understandably) not important to a big portion of the playerbase, it is to me and many others. And from what we know, the T6's will kick the butt of T5Us.
If it aint competitive in competitive content, but does perfectly everywhere else, why should I bother upgrading it if I'm going to be getting a T6 anyway for said new content?
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
Some have posted their ideas of a compromise, which is good for the conversation. However, compromise means both parties agree to a little give and take. Some of the posters here do not care to see the other side of the fence and anyone who disagreed with them and pointed out the flaws in their thinking, were lumped into a category of Cryptic/PWE fanboys.
For example: Cryptic's current plan is for us to pay to upgrade certain ships. These upgraded ships do not gain the Tier 5 mastery (which unlocks a new starship trait), an additional Bridge Officer ability, and does not gain a Specialist Bridge Officer seat (which not all Tier 6 ships will gain).
Some posters idea of a compromise is for Cryptic to give us the upgrades for free. No other quarter given.
Other posters asked, that if since we have to pay, to have the ships be given true T6 upgrades, so there is no difference between the T6 and the T5 upgrades. A slightly different version of this was to also grant the additional Bridge Officer ability to the T5 upgrades, on top of Cryptic's current plan.
If one would assign a point for each extra the T6 ships have over the T5U ships would look something like this:
T6 Ships
Scaling HP from 50 to 60: 1
Additional Console Slot: 1
Starship Mastery Levels: 1 (1 point for 4 levels, as the Trait is listed separately on the blog post)
Starship Trait: 1
Additional Bridge Officer Ability: 1
Specialist Bridge Officer Seat: 0.5 (awarded a half point as not all T6 ships will have this)
Total: 5.5
T5U Ships
Scaling HP from 50 to 60: 1
Additional Console Slot: 1
Starship Mastery Levels: 1
Starship Trait: 0
Additional Bridge Officer Ability: 0
Specialist Bridge Officer Seat: 0
Total: 3
Personally I would have given the Additional Bridge Officer Seat 2 points, as it can usually trump an extra console slot depending on what level that ability is and how the player sets up the ability to be without conflict with other abilities.
Now trying to get both sides to agree to a little give and take, is going to be difficult. There is too much in-fighting with the player base on what they consider to be a compromise.
Will help more when we see the normal T6 ships, to see how what the Intel T6 ships traded balances or not for those so we can compare both the T6 and Intel T6 to the T5-U 10 console ships...since we don't have the Fleet T6 ships yet for the comparison to the T5-U 11 console ships. Given that Cryptic wants us to see T5U-10 ~ T6 and T5U-11 ~ FT6.
Kind of like the T6 Intel blog gives us this for those particular T6 ships...
So we can expect the non-Intel T6 to be slower, less agile, and have more HP than the Intel T6, eh?
Oh well, we'll see that info eventually...
I have no problem with corporations making money. I know they need to pay their tec's and programmers and show a profit as well.
If they make a product that is great I find myself wanting to buy it. I bought the avenger and liked it so much I couldn't wait till I could buy the fleet ship module to make it even better.
What I do take exception to is to be painted into a corner where I'm extorted into buying a sub standard product just to remain competitive when the very nature of the product means I wont be.
IE give up all the ships you love and have spent a fortune on, and buy one of these hand full of ships even though they are ugly and you don't really want them. If you don't you will always be a half step behind those that did.
So I'm not asking for them to give me anything!!! all I'm asking for form the game I have spent years of loyal playing time and a great great deal of money nearly 1000 dollars. is simple let me [us] upgrade our ships. the full upgrade so our ships are same as the t6 whoopee doo ugly things you've slapped together you made the dyson ships look cool what happened here??
But I digress beauty is in eye of beholder. If you want me to pay make it worth while and I will, but to force me into paying for half an upgrade just so I can continue to fly my fleet defiant, avenger, multi vec, oddy, ect. ect. feels like a slap in the face.
In your first point you mentioned, what I would call, a mutual understanding between companies and/or their representatives. This does not apply to everyone since not every consumer or customer has a business of their own with that similar model (myself included). In cases with MMOs, the customer IS always right, unlike a cable company. Without us the game would not be here today. But a cable company can have no customers and still be getting paid because they could provide services to government establishments, military bases, etc etc. This opportunity is seldom available to game companies.
To your second point, I will put it very simply: My ships do not go out of style, because they are Trek canon. These new ships are not. I agree with marielang, I'm not necessarily asking for anything free (as much as it would be,actually, nice for them to do considering it would be no sweat off their backs). One thing everyone needs to learn is that this video game does NOT apply to real life for obvious reasons. It isn't real life (similar to Trek's idea of an alternate universe, our laws of physics do not apply). So any comparison between the game and real life holds no water. "But...But...but..., its a business. That's real. We...we..we.. should just keep forking out money because we need to all hail the mighty dollar and do our part in making this game great". If you can't see the flaw in this. I have no time for you.
It's really more like asking to upgrade the T4.5 ships (Valiant/Bellephoron/Venture) to T5, isn't it? But that upgrade path is buying the retrofit outright at T5.
The thing is, yes Cryptic and PWE needs money to keep the game running, and yes you could say that's a good reason to charge for ship upgrades, however, that's only applying to cash shop and fleet ships not to lobi and lock box ships which are getting thrown a freebie so why should people who want a freebie for their cash shop or fleet ships feel bad for it when people using lobi and lock box ships are getting it free? Or why not just make everyone pay? or make upgrades cost dilithium so it could go either way depending on how someone chooses to get the dilithium? Depending on what cash shop ship it is anyway someones still getting hosed.
Some of the T5 cash shop ships are already sub par like the Odyssey, all those people get for the money is for their ships to be a tiiiny bit less sub par compared to other T5 ships.
The lockbox and lobi ships are getting free upgrades because the average investment per ship was a lot more than the cash shop or fleet ships. Using the Temporal lock box for example. According to the STO gamepedia (http://sto.gamepedia.com/Temporal_Lock_Box) there is a 0.41% chance of getting the Temporal Science Vessel. Using the same method that is used for procs (1/0.0041), the number of boxes to open for a Temporal Science Vessel is about 244 lockboxs. At 125 zen per key, that is 30,500 zen. Now the Temporal Destroyer worth 800 lobi and getting an average 5.44826 lobi per Temporal lockbox, comes out to 147 boxes. 147 keys, costing 18375 zen.
So with the lockbox ship averaging a cost of 30,500 zen and the lobi ships averaging a cost of 18,375 zen; compared to a cash shop ship that cost 2,500 zen; it is understandable that the lockbox and lobi get free upgrades. They had an already HUGE investment versus the cash shop and fleet ships.
Which is extortion. Instead of making the game fun they implemented a lottery system. As far as trek is concerned, Dabo should be the only gambling in the game. Its one thing to make money to keep the game running, its another thing entirely to keep the game running to make money.
In reality Perfect World implemented their standard business model. Your money is now their money.