Which is extortion. Instead of making the game fun they implemented a lottery system. As far as trek is concerned, Dabo should be the only gambling in the game. Its one thing to make money to keep the game running, its another thing entirely to keep the game running to make money.
It is not extortion. There were no shows of force or threats made. If anything, it is more like giving preferential treatment to one group of customers that spent X amount of dollars.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
The lockbox and lobi ships are getting free upgrades because the average investment per ship was a lot more than the cash shop or fleet ships. Using the Temporal lock box for example. According to the STO gamepedia (http://sto.gamepedia.com/Temporal_Lock_Box) there is a 0.41% chance of getting the Temporal Science Vessel. Using the same method that is used for procs (1/0.0041), the number of boxes to open for a Temporal Science Vessel is about 244 lockboxs. At 125 zen per key, that is 30,500 zen. Now the Temporal Destroyer worth 800 lobi and getting an average 5.44826 lobi per Temporal lockbox, comes out to 147 boxes. 147 keys, costing 18375 zen.
So with the lockbox ship averaging a cost of 30,500 zen and the lobi ships averaging a cost of 18,375 zen; compared to a cash shop ship that cost 2,500 zen; it is understandable that the lockbox and lobi get free upgrades. They had an already HUGE investment versus the cash shop and fleet ships.
While I agree that people spend more money on those than the rest of us do on cash shop ships that is their choice, no ones forcing anyone at gun point to buy keys and open boxes and we all know the slim odds of getting the ships. Personally, my advice would be save your money, go to the casinos in Vegas where the odds are more in your favor. That still doesn't make up for the fact that a lot of the cash shop ships are noticeably below lock box and fleet ships already. Like the Odyssey, the Federation flagship, may as well be a T4 compaired to those ships, now we're told pay yet another $5 to $10 to maaaybbbeee get it up to a T4.5 equivalent while those ships get a freebie and go to T5.5.
My suggestion, let them have their freebie, give us some upgrades, add 3 extra console slots to the cash shop ships, the ones that come in 3's like the Odyssey and Galaxy variants, so we can keep the consoles we paid good money for without being forced to turn our ships into flying Ford Pintos. We want to be able to equip tactical, engineering, and science consoles like everyone else without having to give up the consoles we bought. I think that's a fair trade if we're going to be asked to spend even more on the ships we bought as some sort of penalty for using the cash shop.
It is not extortion. There were no shows of force or threats made. If anything, it is more like giving preferential treatment to one group of customers that spent X amount of dollars.
Yeah, it's kind of like how hotels will throw in free breakfast for people who rent the expensive suites.
While I agree that people spend more money on those than the rest of us do on cash shop ships that is their choice, no ones forcing anyone at gun point to buy keys and open boxes and we all know the slim odds of getting the ships. Personally, my advice would be save your money, go to the casinos in Vegas where the odds are more in your favor. That still doesn't make up for the fact that a lot of the cash shop ships are noticeably below lock box and fleet ships already. Like the Odyssey, the Federation flagship, may as well be a T4 compaired to those ships, now we're told pay yet another $5 to $10 to maaaybbbeee get it up to a T4.5 equivalent while those ships get a freebie and go to T5.5.
My suggestion, let them have their freebie, give us some upgrades, add 3 extra console slots to the cash shop ships, the ones that come in 3's like the Odyssey and Galaxy variants, so we can keep the consoles we paid good money for without being forced to turn our ships into flying Ford Pintos. We want to be able to equip tactical, engineering, and science consoles like everyone else without having to give up the consoles we bought. I think that's a fair trade if we're going to be asked to spend even more on the ships we bought as some sort of penalty for using the cash shop.
The lockbox gambling is another issue entirely. And, so is the disparity between different cash shop ships.
When trying to reach a compromise, we do need to be reasonable in what we ask. We are going to have to pay for the upgrade, that will not change. Any suggestion to make the upgrade ships a full T6 is probably not happen as they want to sell those ships. We need to find something that Cryptic/PWE would be willing agree to.
The way I see it, we have only four choices:
1) Try to get the upgraded ships the additional Bridge Officer ability. The T6 ships would still be able to reach the 5th Ship Mastery level, thereby unlocking a new Starship Trait and they would still be only ships to be able to utilize the Specialist (Intel) Bridge Officer slots.
2) Try to get the upgraded ships to be able to reach the 5th Ship Mastery level, making them able to unlock a new Starship Trait. The T6 ships would still get the additional Bridge Officer ability and the use of the Specialist (Intel) Bridge Officer slots.
3) Keep making demands that Cryptic/PWE would find outrageous and simply ignore them. i.e., free upgrades for all ships or full T6 upgrades for all ships.
4) Take our ball and go home.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
The game really needed to move forward with a traditional MMO expansion. I applaud the Devs for makeing the couragous steep forward. I can' wait to get my hands on some new Tier 6 ships. For STO to have a future I think a step like this needed to be taken. Well done.
It is not extortion. There were no shows of force or threats made. If anything, it is more like giving preferential treatment to one group of customers that spent X amount of dollars.
That's not the point. The point is, it should have not been there to begin with. Choosing who gets free upgrades and who doesn't shouldn't be determined by the overall investment. A game is suppose to be fun. Where's the fun in being shafted because you are not a high roller?
The lockbox gambling is another issue entirely. And, so is the disparity between different cash shop ships.
When trying to reach a compromise, we do need to be reasonable in what we ask. We are going to have to pay for the upgrade, that will not change. Any suggestion to make the upgrade ships a full T6 is probably not happen as they want to sell those ships. We need to find something that Cryptic/PWE would be willing agree to.
The way I see it, we have only four choices:
1) Try to get the upgraded ships the additional Bridge Officer ability. The T6 ships would still be able to reach the 5th Ship Mastery level, thereby unlocking a new Starship Trait and they would still be only ships to be able to utilize the Specialist (Intel) Bridge Officer slots.
2) Try to get the upgraded ships to be able to reach the 5th Ship Mastery level, making them able to unlock a new Starship Trait. The T6 ships would still get the additional Bridge Officer ability and the use of the Specialist (Intel) Bridge Officer slots.
3) Keep making demands that Cryptic/PWE would find outrageous and simply ignore them. i.e., free upgrades for all ships or full T6 upgrades for all ships.
4) Take our ball and go home.
5) Give upgraded ships additional Bridge Officer ability and 5th starship mastery, but increase the amount of money/grinding required to upgrade as compared to what is currently planned for T5-U.
(realistically, I think the best that can be hoped for is option 1, but I'm going to keep banging the T5-U shouldn't exist and there should only be a straight upgrade path to T6 drum as long as I can.)
5) Give upgraded ships additional Bridge Officer ability and 5th starship mastery, but increase the amount of money/grinding required to upgrade as compared to what is currently planned for T5-U.
(realistically, I think the best that can be hoped for is option 1, but I'm going to keep banging the T5-U shouldn't exist and there should only be a straight upgrade path to T6 drum as long as I can.)
While I like your option, I don't see Cryptic/PWE going for it unfortunately.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
That's not the point. The point is, it should have not been there to begin with. Choosing who gets free upgrades and who doesn't shouldn't be determined by the overall investment. A game is suppose to be fun. Where's the fun in being shafted because you are not a high roller?
I posted why I thought Cryptic/PWE gave the lockbox and lobi ships free upgrades and not the rest. Most companies treat the high spending customers a bit better. You don't have to agree with it, but it is the truth. No one forced those customers to spend more, just as no one forced you to spend less. At the end of the day they may have more baubles in the game, and you have more cash in your pocket. If Cryptic/PWE wants to give free upgrades to those who invested more, they have every right to do so. And you have every right not to like it.
But arguing their stance on it, will not change anything, we need to focus more on a realistic compromise for their upgrade plans. To be honest, you are starting to come across as a whiney spoiled child who isn't getting his or her own way; and I don't think that is an accurate characterization of you.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
The lockbox gambling is another issue entirely. And, so is the disparity between different cash shop ships.
When trying to reach a compromise, we do need to be reasonable in what we ask. We are going to have to pay for the upgrade, that will not change. Any suggestion to make the upgrade ships a full T6 is probably not happen as they want to sell those ships. We need to find something that Cryptic/PWE would be willing agree to.
The way I see it, we have only four choices:
1) Try to get the upgraded ships the additional Bridge Officer ability. The T6 ships would still be able to reach the 5th Ship Mastery level, thereby unlocking a new Starship Trait and they would still be only ships to be able to utilize the Specialist (Intel) Bridge Officer slots.
2) Try to get the upgraded ships to be able to reach the 5th Ship Mastery level, making them able to unlock a new Starship Trait. The T6 ships would still get the additional Bridge Officer ability and the use of the Specialist (Intel) Bridge Officer slots.
3) Keep making demands that Cryptic/PWE would find outrageous and simply ignore them. i.e., free upgrades for all ships or full T6 upgrades for all ships.
4) Take our ball and go home.
How is my suggestion unreasonable? Those of us who bought what was supposed to be a T5 ship expect a T5 ship, not a 4.5. I'm just suggesting bringing those ships up to an actual T5. The people who own lobi and box ships seem to be getting super defensive for whatever reason, wanting people who bought from the cash shop to remain in sub par, obsolete ships, I guess so you can keep winning at pvp or something. The fact remains we bought a T5, we want a T5, can't be more reasonable than that.
How is my suggestion unreasonable? Those of us who bought what was supposed to be a T5 ship expect a T5 ship, not a 4.5. I'm just suggesting bringing those ships up to an actual T5. The people who own lobi and box ships seem to be getting super defensive for whatever reason, wanting people who bought from the cash shop to remain in sub par, obsolete ships, I guess so you can keep winning at pvp or something. The fact remains we bought a T5, we want a T5, can't be more reasonable than that.
What ship did you buy that should be T5 but is actually T4.5 (which doesn't exist)?
How is my suggestion unreasonable? Those of us who bought what was supposed to be a T5 ship expect a T5 ship, not a 4.5. I'm just suggesting bringing those ships up to an actual T5. The people who own lobi and box ships seem to be getting super defensive for whatever reason, wanting people who bought from the cash shop to remain in sub par, obsolete ships, I guess so you can keep winning at pvp or something. The fact remains we bought a T5, we want a T5, can't be more reasonable than that.
While I quoted you, I was not specifically referencing your suggestion as being outrageous. You will see in Option 3 in my post, I gave two examples of unreasonable suggestions, at least from Cryptic/PWE's point of view, in regards to the T5 Upgrades.
The lockbox and lobi ships were always a slight grade above T5 ships, and that was by design, to get the players to try for them. The difference between them really is a separate topic altogether and not related to the T5 upgrade topic of this thread.
And, just FYI, I fly cash shop ships almost exclusively.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
That's not the point. The point is, it should have not been there to begin with. Choosing who gets free upgrades and who doesn't shouldn't be determined by the overall investment. A game is suppose to be fun. Where's the fun in being shafted because you are not a high roller?
All free give away ships get a free upgrade. My fleet and c-store ships don't. Stop the damn whining.
As I've said on other post you (Cryptic) want to charge us (the players) for ships we already bought and you are charging us just to bring them up to T5-U not even bring them to T6 yet you want to charge us money well my wallet speaks louder then this post and my wallet says you are not getting any of my money :cool: Whoever thought it was a great idea to charge people to bring ships up just slightly and then have the nerve to charge us money for it needs to be fired :mad:
What ship did you buy that should be T5 but is actually T4.5 (which doesn't exist)?
If you look at the stats and all for every ship theres the freebies we all get with each rank which is at the bottom, just barly above that is cash shop ships, then half a tier worth of stats above that is fleet ships, then a tier and a half worth above that is lobi and box ships. That's what I ment, so those of us using cash shop ships really won't be getting anything for the extra $5 to $10 other than a ship that's almost up to par maybe with the current fleet ships so in the end we're still stuck with vastly inferior ships only paying extra for the privilege.
Most C-Store ships were already garbage before Delta Rising. I bought the Atrox and the Kumari 3 pack with "real" money. I must have been TRIBBLE!
The only purchase of t5 I dont regret was the Scimitar Pack and the T'varo. So those are the only current ships that will become obsolete for me.
This is what I'm talking about, cash shop ships have always been the most inferior ships unless you count the in game ships we get at each rank.
As far as wanting something for free, no, wanting what we paid for isn't wanting something free. Personally, I'd be happy with what I suggested, giving those ships 3 extra console slots so we can use our universal consoles without having to give up tactical, engineering, and science consoles.
If you look at the stats and all for every ship theres the freebies we all get with each rank which is at the bottom, just barly above that is cash shop ships, then half a tier worth of stats above that is fleet ships, then a tier and a half worth above that is lobi and box ships. That's what I ment, so those of us using cash shop ships really won't be getting anything for the extra $5 to $10 other than a ship that's almost up to par maybe with the current fleet ships so in the end we're still stuck with vastly inferior ships only paying extra for the privilege.
This is what I'm talking about, cash shop ships have always been the most inferior ships unless you count the in game ships we get at each rank.
As far as wanting something for free, no, wanting what we paid for isn't wanting something free. Personally, I'd be happy with what I suggested, giving those ships 3 extra console slots so we can use our universal consoles without having to give up tactical, engineering, and science consoles.
You already have what you paid for. You paid for a T5 ship, and you have one. At no point did Cryptic promise to give you anything but what you have already.
You already have what you paid for. You paid for a T5 ship, and you have one. At no point did Cryptic promise to give you anything but what you have already.
At no point did they say we would be wasting our money on a T5 either. We have what we paid for but what we paid for no longer holds the value we paid since both that and our gear are being rendered obsolete regardless of upgrades. It doesn't matter if other games do it, its sly and deceptive. I do not like it.
It doesnt matter how much we say against it Cryptic are going to go a head with it i'm not fussed about them chrging to upgrade my B'rel or T'varo but my star cruiser which I spent money on keys for my collection of MU ships are not included with a free upgrade well my wallet spaks loud I'll grind dil for the upgrade if I decide to get them or I will use the ships I got in the events as it makes no difference as they be inferior to Tier 6 anyay but in PVE you can possibly do everythng in a Tier 4 ship anyway.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So the 2 ships i play with,which cost me about £25 each then paid extra 2 upgrade to fleet version are not on the free upgrade !!!! Ive been a paying monthly member for 5+ years now and spent a small fortune on this game and you want me to pay even more money !!!! think not, im gone for good in october !!!!
The upcoming release of Delta Rising will bring many new and exciting things to Star Trek Online. As with most major game changes, there is also frustration from the player base about how some of these changes are being implemented. There has been a lot of misplaced anger on the forums over the costs of upgrading a ship to Tier 5-U, and a focus on cost has blinded players from the more pressing issues surrounding these changes. It is to be expected that since the transition to a free-to-play model that in the absence of monthly subscription revenue there will be an increased focus on in-game transactions, including ship upgrade modules. Like many players, I'm not a huge fan of having to sink continuous streams of money into the game, however, I'm willing to do so if that money is going towards something worthwhile. In the case of upgrading existing ships to Tier 5-U, I don't think a solid argument exists that that money would be going towards a worthwhile alternative to Tier 6 ships.
- PLAYERS AND THEIR SHIPS - MORE THAN JUST AN INVESTMENT
Across a single tier of ships, many of the differences between ships come from either aesthetic presentation or the character of the ship (usually through special weapons or universal consoles that are tied to the ship). This means that much of the time a player is deciding which ship to play based on some kind of attachment to a particular ship, be it part of the story of the ship, the look and feel of the ship, or the bond they have formed with a ship from flying it for upwards of 4 years. For many players, being able to get access to these ships is a very big part of their in-game experience, they have waited for ships from different factions or different parts of the Star Trek canon to be released, and now many of these ships that players waited for and celebrated their release will now be obsolete. PWE claims to not want to devalue the time and money that players have invested into their current Tier 5 ships, and thus proposes these upgrade options as a solution, however, these upgrades don't solve the problem that PWE is trying to fix. The only way to not devalue Tier 5 ships is to prevent them from being obsolete, charging a fee and calling them Tier 5-U does not accomplish that goal. Yes, the upgrade to a Tier 5-U does provide access to some important benefits, namely an additional console slot and scaling ship hit points, but all that does is make them <less> obsolete than if the upgrade option were not available. By no means does it actually put Tier 5 ships on par with Tier 6 ships.
- PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO SETTLE
For purposes of clarity, I think it's important to note that not all Tier 5 ships are created equal. Tier 5 is an expansive term used to describe endgame ships, however, within Tier 5 there are two distinct groups. To try to make it easier, we can look at them as regular and advanced. The regular ships include standard Zen store ships like the D'Kyr and Guramba that don't have corresponding fleet versions, as well as the base versions of ships that do have a fleet counterpart, like the Avenger Battle Cruiser and the Caitain Atrox Carrier. These ships tend to have lower hull and shields, and only 9 console slots. The advanced ships include fleet ships that are purchased with Fleet Modules, Lobi Store ships, Event Reputation ships like the Risian Corvette, Lock Box ships, and Zen store 3-pack ships like the Vesta and Andorian escorts. These ships come with extra advantages over the regular ships, including higher shields and hull (in the case of fleet ships, 10% each over their non-fleet counterparts) and a 10th console slot. These same distinctions exist in the Tier 6 ships as well, with fleet versions of the intelligence ships coming some time after the launch of Delta Rising.
When comparing the impact of Tier 5-U ships, it makes more sense to compare similar ships, meaning that comparing the Tier 6 ships that are available at launch against Tier 5-U versions of the "advanced" ships is not an accurate comparison. Rather we should compare the "regular" Tier 5-U ships against the "regular" Tier 6 ships, and the same for the "advanced."
When we compare the ships this way, the disparity becomes much more pronounced. A Tier 5-U D'kyr for instance, will have a lower hull than any Tier 6 ship (they will both scale, but at level 60, the D'kyr will lag greatly), and will only have 10 console slots. All Tier 6 ships will have access to an extra Lt. Commander bridge officer ability, a starship trait, and a higher hull. If we compare a Tier 5-U advanced ship, like the Vesta against a Tier 6 advanced ship, like the Fleet Scryer, there is no real comparison. They will both have 11 console slots, but the Vesta is going to scale its HP to top out on hull HP around 35,000 against the Scryer's 40,000. The Scryer, like all Tier 6 ships, will also have two Lt. Commander slots, intelligence bridge officer abilities, and a starship trait.
While players may have adapted to changes in the past, PWE has also been moderately good at keeping players from having to settle when it comes to their ships. When Tier 5 was released, retrofits gave players an option to have Tier 5 versions of their previous ships, the later release of fleet ships allowed older ships to have increased hull and shields and a full complement of 10 console slots, making them equal to other advanced ships. That just doesn't seem to be the case here. Players shouldn't have to settle, adjust, or adapt when it comes to their ship choices, especially since in the past, PWE has shown that there are ways to keep players in the ships that they have become attached to. Tier 5-U ships may give an advantage (if you believe that an extra console slot outweighs all the other benefits available at Tier 6) to players playing an advanced Tier 5-U ship for the first couple weeks, but after Tier 6 fleet ships, and other Tier 6 advanced ships, become available, that advantage is completely erased, and Tier 5-U ships become greatly outclassed.
- "BELLS AND WHISTLES" VS. SIGNFICANT CHANGES
In the developer's notes, they say that Tier 5-U ships will be like Tier 6, minus "a few Bells and Whistles." Generally when we speak of Bells and Whistles, we think of things that are not of material value, maybe aesthetic changes, or quirky functions, that don't necessarily affect the ships ability to function. This would include things like additional ship materials, different ship registries and alternative costume options. Instead, PWE refers to include an additional bridge officer ability, a starship trait, a 5th level of ship mastery, and on some ships, the ability to slot specialist bridge officers. These are hardly Bells and Whistles, these are changes that make Tier 5 (and Tier 5-U) ships unable to compete with Tier 6 ships.
- TIER 5-U DOESN'T ADD ENOUGH VALUE TO MATCH WHAT PLAYERS ARE MISSING OUT ON
Even though some of those additions may seem innocuous, they are far from it. One of the most noticeable differences between Tier 5-U ships and Tier 6 ships is the additional bridge officer ability. These abilities come in the form of Lieutenant Commander abilities, which are some of the strongest, most impactful abilities in the game. Some of the strongest offensive and defensive abilities are in the Lt. Commander slot, including the level 3 Sci/Tac/Eng Team abilities, Attack Pattern Omega 1, Gravity Well 1 and so on. Additional access to these abilities can make or break a ships performance, especially when they are used over the duration of a PvE or PvP event, and are certainly enough to push Tier 6 ships to be the only ships that are competitive in PvP environments. These abilities are far more powerful than built in abilities that are tacked on to some ships, like the subsystems targeting abilities on some cruisers and science ships, or even the recently released cruiser commands. But furthermore, now there will be Tier 6 ships available that have the built in abilities in addition to the bonus Lt. Commander ability, which continues to outclass anything that a Tier 5-U ship can offer.
When it comes to starship skills, ship mastery, and specialist bridge officer slots, we only have an initial picture from the development blogs of their impact, but they are certainly far from "Bells and Whistles." The starship traits that have been released so far include damage resistance buffs, bridge officer recharge buffs, and exotic particle damage buffs, all of which stack on an incredibly regular basis. These are not the kinds of immaterial changes that would be referred to as "Bells and Whistles," but rather these starship traits drastically affect strategic choices when deciding on a build, and increase the effectiveness of the ship by a great deal. Additionally, the intel abilities give a hearty edge to the Tier 6 Intel ships, and further push Tier 5-U ships out of the realm of playability during PvP events. Given the damage and damage resistance buffs granted by the intel abilities, there would be no way for a Tier 5-U ship to be competitive against a Tier 6 ship in PvP, and it is all but guaranteed that a Tier 6 ship would significantly outperform a Tier 5-U in any PvE event.
- SOLUTIONS
Tier 5-U ships are not the solution here, all that does is make the disparity between Tier 5 and Tier 6 ships smaller, it certainly does not make Tier 5 ships competitive with Tier 6 ones. Previous solutions in the game have been more expensive, but have allowed players to play with the ships that they are attached to, and that is the release of "retrofit" and fleet versions of lower tiered ships that are legitimate Tier 5 ships. Release Tier 6 retrofits, possibly as advanced retrofit versions, of existing Tier 5 ships is the only answer that allows for older ships to be truly competitive amongst the newest echelons of ships. Yes, it is probably more expensive, but at the same time allows players to continue to play the ships they love, while also creating a new tier of ships. This could be accomplished by releasing new versions in the Zen and Lobi stores of Tier 6 versions of existing ships, and could even be offered at a discount for players that have a current version of the ship, or by offering Tier 6 upgrade modules, similar to way people currently get top-tier versions of T5 Ships via Fleet Ships . This would also prevent the new ships from being heavily devalued as the excitement over new ships is always already high among the player base (as long as they don't feel that these new ships are the only way to be competitive).
- EXPENSIVE DIGITAL PAPERWEIGHTS
When it comes down to it, Tier 5-U ships aren't a compromise, they are still unfortunately going to be unplayable for players who expect to be able to compete with each other. The problem with Tier 5-U ships is that they will be too much of a downgrade from the new Tier 6 ships. Right now ships like the Mirror Universe ships that come out of the lock box system are technically Tier 5, they are certainly not competitive with the ships at the highest level of Tier 5 (like the Lobi store ships, Zen store ships, or even ships from the Summer and Winter Events). Currently players can choose to compromise and use a Mirror Universe ship because they're cheaper, but players should not have to compromise when it comes to the entire fleet of ships released in the past 4 years. Sure, you'll be able to complete a PvE queue or a storyline mission with a Tier 5-U ship, but you'll be doing so at a noticeable handicap to anyone doing the same in a Tier 6 ship. PvP and high level PvE queues (like No-Win Scenario) may be physically accessible with a Tier 5-U ship, but don't expect to win. Right now I don't show up to PvP with a Mirror Universe Patrol Escort (for obvious reasons) and come October, even showing up in a bug ship will be a losing proposition. With the release of Tier 6 ships, everything we've worked on for the past 4 years will be expensive digital paperweights, holding space in our ship inventory for nostalgia purposes only, which doesn't seem like a solid solution for people who have spent a great amount of time and money securing their favorite ships. Releasing Tier 6 retrofits of current Tier 5 ships is truly the only way to ensure that these ships will remain competitive at level 60, hopefully PWE figures that out and offers us better options.
I know I'm not alone in the group of players that really cares about their ship and hopes that a solution is offered to help preserve the ships that we collectively have spent a lot of time obtaining. Thanks for reading, I hope we can continue the conversation about ways to best address this issue given its effect on a great number of players.
Yes we do need more console slots available for all our Tac, Sci and Eng gear. Under the Reputation System some neat universal consoles are dropping in my inventory and a lot of them I just can't use. Each ship has max number of consoles some limited. Why not give use the option to upgrade them to the max 5 each.
I'm sorry guys. I try not to be downright rude, because I'm sure someone put a lot of hard work into those ships. They might be fine work for some other game, but they DO NOT look like Federation ships. As a person who is committed to Federation design and feel- I can't be seen in one of those.
The only ship in that whole pack that is attractive is the MaHa Klingon ship. It is mean, modern, and looks genuinely Klingon. Good job there.
I would've been interested in buying this pack if it wasn't for the design direction that those Federation ships have taken. They are unforgivable. To create a new top-tier class of starships, then to make them so visually undesirable is a hard pill for me to swallow. Count me out.
I think most people buy ships for the stats. If looks was the issue. Nobody would fly a xindi escort or bother upgradeing to fleet ships. Its all about the stats.
You already have what you paid for. You paid for a T5 ship, and you have one. At no point did Cryptic promise to give you anything but what you have already.
Your right, those of us who bought those ships from the cash shop did pay for as tier 5, did we get a tier 5? hardly, the stats and all of those ships can barely match a tier 4 much less a tier 5 so I'm not saying I want more than what I paid for, I'm saying I want what I paid for. if people would bother to read what I say instead of picking a word here and there, manufacturing sentences from them and claiming that's what I said they'd get that. I'm just saying those ships need a buff, they have for a long time now. Either a boost in stats, 3 new slots added for those universal consoles, or merge all three into 1 console for ships that come in sets of 3. Alternatively they could change those "special" consoles from universal to some other classification and give each ship 3 new console slots just for them. That could be applied to every ship since theres consoles from the reps and lock boxes.
The upcoming release of Delta Rising will bring many new and exciting things to Star Trek Online. As with most major game changes, there is also frustration from the player base about how some of these changes are being implemented. There has been a lot of misplaced anger on the forums over the costs of upgrading a ship to Tier 5-U, and a focus on cost has blinded players from the more pressing issues surrounding these changes. It is to be expected that since the transition to a free-to-play model that in the absence of monthly subscription revenue there will be an increased focus on in-game transactions, including ship upgrade modules. Like many players, I'm not a huge fan of having to sink continuous streams of money into the game, however, I'm willing to do so if that money is going towards something worthwhile. In the case of upgrading existing ships to Tier 5-U, I don't think a solid argument exists that that money would be going towards a worthwhile alternative to Tier 6 ships.
- PLAYERS AND THEIR SHIPS - MORE THAN JUST AN INVESTMENT
Across a single tier of ships, many of the differences between ships come from either aesthetic presentation or the character of the ship (usually through special weapons or universal consoles that are tied to the ship). This means that much of the time a player is deciding which ship to play based on some kind of attachment to a particular ship, be it part of the story of the ship, the look and feel of the ship, or the bond they have formed with a ship from flying it for upwards of 4 years. For many players, being able to get access to these ships is a very big part of their in-game experience, they have waited for ships from different factions or different parts of the Star Trek canon to be released, and now many of these ships that players waited for and celebrated their release will now be obsolete. PWE claims to not want to devalue the time and money that players have invested into their current Tier 5 ships, and thus proposes these upgrade options as a solution, however, these upgrades don't solve the problem that PWE is trying to fix. The only way to not devalue Tier 5 ships is to prevent them from being obsolete, charging a fee and calling them Tier 5-U does not accomplish that goal. Yes, the upgrade to a Tier 5-U does provide access to some important benefits, namely an additional console slot and scaling ship hit points, but all that does is make them <less> obsolete than if the upgrade option were not available. By no means does it actually put Tier 5 ships on par with Tier 6 ships.
- PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO SETTLE
For purposes of clarity, I think it's important to note that not all Tier 5 ships are created equal. Tier 5 is an expansive term used to describe endgame ships, however, within Tier 5 there are two distinct groups. To try to make it easier, we can look at them as regular and advanced. The regular ships include standard Zen store ships like the D'Kyr and Guramba that don't have corresponding fleet versions, as well as the base versions of ships that do have a fleet counterpart, like the Avenger Battle Cruiser and the Caitain Atrox Carrier. These ships tend to have lower hull and shields, and only 9 console slots. The advanced ships include fleet ships that are purchased with Fleet Modules, Lobi Store ships, Event Reputation ships like the Risian Corvette, Lock Box ships, and Zen store 3-pack ships like the Vesta and Andorian escorts. These ships come with extra advantages over the regular ships, including higher shields and hull (in the case of fleet ships, 10% each over their non-fleet counterparts) and a 10th console slot. These same distinctions exist in the Tier 6 ships as well, with fleet versions of the intelligence ships coming some time after the launch of Delta Rising.
When comparing the impact of Tier 5-U ships, it makes more sense to compare similar ships, meaning that comparing the Tier 6 ships that are available at launch against Tier 5-U versions of the "advanced" ships is not an accurate comparison. Rather we should compare the "regular" Tier 5-U ships against the "regular" Tier 6 ships, and the same for the "advanced."
When we compare the ships this way, the disparity becomes much more pronounced. A Tier 5-U D'kyr for instance, will have a lower hull than any Tier 6 ship (they will both scale, but at level 60, the D'kyr will lag greatly), and will only have 10 console slots. All Tier 6 ships will have access to an extra Lt. Commander bridge officer ability, a starship trait, and a higher hull. If we compare a Tier 5-U advanced ship, like the Vesta against a Tier 6 advanced ship, like the Fleet Scryer, there is no real comparison. They will both have 11 console slots, but the Vesta is going to scale its HP to top out on hull HP around 35,000 against the Scryer's 40,000. The Scryer, like all Tier 6 ships, will also have two Lt. Commander slots, intelligence bridge officer abilities, and a starship trait.
While players may have adapted to changes in the past, PWE has also been moderately good at keeping players from having to settle when it comes to their ships. When Tier 5 was released, retrofits gave players an option to have Tier 5 versions of their previous ships, the later release of fleet ships allowed older ships to have increased hull and shields and a full complement of 10 console slots, making them equal to other advanced ships. That just doesn't seem to be the case here. Players shouldn't have to settle, adjust, or adapt when it comes to their ship choices, especially since in the past, PWE has shown that there are ways to keep players in the ships that they have become attached to. Tier 5-U ships may give an advantage (if you believe that an extra console slot outweighs all the other benefits available at Tier 6) to players playing an advanced Tier 5-U ship for the first couple weeks, but after Tier 6 fleet ships, and other Tier 6 advanced ships, become available, that advantage is completely erased, and Tier 5-U ships become greatly outclassed.
- "BELLS AND WHISTLES" VS. SIGNFICANT CHANGES
In the developer's notes, they say that Tier 5-U ships will be like Tier 6, minus "a few Bells and Whistles." Generally when we speak of Bells and Whistles, we think of things that are not of material value, maybe aesthetic changes, or quirky functions, that don't necessarily affect the ships ability to function. This would include things like additional ship materials, different ship registries and alternative costume options. Instead, PWE refers to include an additional bridge officer ability, a starship trait, a 5th level of ship mastery, and on some ships, the ability to slot specialist bridge officers. These are hardly Bells and Whistles, these are changes that make Tier 5 (and Tier 5-U) ships unable to compete with Tier 6 ships.
- TIER 5-U DOESN'T ADD ENOUGH VALUE TO MATCH WHAT PLAYERS ARE MISSING OUT ON
Even though some of those additions may seem innocuous, they are far from it. One of the most noticeable differences between Tier 5-U ships and Tier 6 ships is the additional bridge officer ability. These abilities come in the form of Lieutenant Commander abilities, which are some of the strongest, most impactful abilities in the game. Some of the strongest offensive and defensive abilities are in the Lt. Commander slot, including the level 3 Sci/Tac/Eng Team abilities, Attack Pattern Omega 1, Gravity Well 1 and so on. Additional access to these abilities can make or break a ships performance, especially when they are used over the duration of a PvE or PvP event, and are certainly enough to push Tier 6 ships to be the only ships that are competitive in PvP environments. These abilities are far more powerful than built in abilities that are tacked on to some ships, like the subsystems targeting abilities on some cruisers and science ships, or even the recently released cruiser commands. But furthermore, now there will be Tier 6 ships available that have the built in abilities in addition to the bonus Lt. Commander ability, which continues to outclass anything that a Tier 5-U ship can offer.
When it comes to starship skills, ship mastery, and specialist bridge officer slots, we only have an initial picture from the development blogs of their impact, but they are certainly far from "Bells and Whistles." The starship traits that have been released so far include damage resistance buffs, bridge officer recharge buffs, and exotic particle damage buffs, all of which stack on an incredibly regular basis. These are not the kinds of immaterial changes that would be referred to as "Bells and Whistles," but rather these starship traits drastically affect strategic choices when deciding on a build, and increase the effectiveness of the ship by a great deal. Additionally, the intel abilities give a hearty edge to the Tier 6 Intel ships, and further push Tier 5-U ships out of the realm of playability during PvP events. Given the damage and damage resistance buffs granted by the intel abilities, there would be no way for a Tier 5-U ship to be competitive against a Tier 6 ship in PvP, and it is all but guaranteed that a Tier 6 ship would significantly outperform a Tier 5-U in any PvE event.
- SOLUTIONS
Tier 5-U ships are not the solution here, all that does is make the disparity between Tier 5 and Tier 6 ships smaller, it certainly does not make Tier 5 ships competitive with Tier 6 ones. Previous solutions in the game have been more expensive, but have allowed players to play with the ships that they are attached to, and that is the release of "retrofit" and fleet versions of lower tiered ships that are legitimate Tier 5 ships. Release Tier 6 retrofits, possibly as advanced retrofit versions, of existing Tier 5 ships is the only answer that allows for older ships to be truly competitive amongst the newest echelons of ships. Yes, it is probably more expensive, but at the same time allows players to continue to play the ships they love, while also creating a new tier of ships. This could be accomplished by releasing new versions in the Zen and Lobi stores of Tier 6 versions of existing ships, and could even be offered at a discount for players that have a current version of the ship, or by offering Tier 6 upgrade modules, similar to way people currently get top-tier versions of T5 Ships via Fleet Ships . This would also prevent the new ships from being heavily devalued as the excitement over new ships is always already high among the player base (as long as they don't feel that these new ships are the only way to be competitive).
- EXPENSIVE DIGITAL PAPERWEIGHTS
When it comes down to it, Tier 5-U ships aren't a compromise, they are still unfortunately going to be unplayable for players who expect to be able to compete with each other. The problem with Tier 5-U ships is that they will be too much of a downgrade from the new Tier 6 ships. Right now ships like the Mirror Universe ships that come out of the lock box system are technically Tier 5, they are certainly not competitive with the ships at the highest level of Tier 5 (like the Lobi store ships, Zen store ships, or even ships from the Summer and Winter Events). Currently players can choose to compromise and use a Mirror Universe ship because they're cheaper, but players should not have to compromise when it comes to the entire fleet of ships released in the past 4 years. Sure, you'll be able to complete a PvE queue or a storyline mission with a Tier 5-U ship, but you'll be doing so at a noticeable handicap to anyone doing the same in a Tier 6 ship. PvP and high level PvE queues (like No-Win Scenario) may be physically accessible with a Tier 5-U ship, but don't expect to win. Right now I don't show up to PvP with a Mirror Universe Patrol Escort (for obvious reasons) and come October, even showing up in a bug ship will be a losing proposition. With the release of Tier 6 ships, everything we've worked on for the past 4 years will be expensive digital paperweights, holding space in our ship inventory for nostalgia purposes only, which doesn't seem like a solid solution for people who have spent a great amount of time and money securing their favorite ships. Releasing Tier 6 retrofits of current Tier 5 ships is truly the only way to ensure that these ships will remain competitive at level 60, hopefully PWE figures that out and offers us better options.
I know I'm not alone in the group of players that really cares about their ship and hopes that a solution is offered to help preserve the ships that we collectively have spent a lot of time obtaining. Thanks for reading, I hope we can continue the conversation about ways to best address this issue given its effect on a great number of players.
QFT
I have been already suggesting your solution. T5-U is not an upgrade worth paying for. Therefore, full T6 or I quit. Its that simple.
Ok so I just got the Xindi carrier. First of all 100% pure awesome.
It's equiped with no special gear. Crafted purple 10 weapons. Junk consoles (some level 6 and 8).
I got 1st in Crystaline this morning.
Somehow I think that the 11 console upgrade fully loaded will be able to handle anything that is thrown at us - maybe even solid for pvp.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
QFT
I have been already suggesting your solution. T5-U is not an upgrade worth paying for. Therefore, full T6 or I quit. Its that simple.
Well since as of today they haven't even finished getting fleet ship upgrades added to tribble the chance of them changing their mind and redoing all the upgrade ships to Full T6 is improbable in the month left before DR launches.
If "Full T6 or I quit" is your stance you might want to start packing those digital bags now.
Comments
It is not extortion. There were no shows of force or threats made. If anything, it is more like giving preferential treatment to one group of customers that spent X amount of dollars.
While I agree that people spend more money on those than the rest of us do on cash shop ships that is their choice, no ones forcing anyone at gun point to buy keys and open boxes and we all know the slim odds of getting the ships. Personally, my advice would be save your money, go to the casinos in Vegas where the odds are more in your favor. That still doesn't make up for the fact that a lot of the cash shop ships are noticeably below lock box and fleet ships already. Like the Odyssey, the Federation flagship, may as well be a T4 compaired to those ships, now we're told pay yet another $5 to $10 to maaaybbbeee get it up to a T4.5 equivalent while those ships get a freebie and go to T5.5.
My suggestion, let them have their freebie, give us some upgrades, add 3 extra console slots to the cash shop ships, the ones that come in 3's like the Odyssey and Galaxy variants, so we can keep the consoles we paid good money for without being forced to turn our ships into flying Ford Pintos. We want to be able to equip tactical, engineering, and science consoles like everyone else without having to give up the consoles we bought. I think that's a fair trade if we're going to be asked to spend even more on the ships we bought as some sort of penalty for using the cash shop.
My character Tsin'xing
The lockbox gambling is another issue entirely. And, so is the disparity between different cash shop ships.
When trying to reach a compromise, we do need to be reasonable in what we ask. We are going to have to pay for the upgrade, that will not change. Any suggestion to make the upgrade ships a full T6 is probably not happen as they want to sell those ships. We need to find something that Cryptic/PWE would be willing agree to.
The way I see it, we have only four choices:
1) Try to get the upgraded ships the additional Bridge Officer ability. The T6 ships would still be able to reach the 5th Ship Mastery level, thereby unlocking a new Starship Trait and they would still be only ships to be able to utilize the Specialist (Intel) Bridge Officer slots.
2) Try to get the upgraded ships to be able to reach the 5th Ship Mastery level, making them able to unlock a new Starship Trait. The T6 ships would still get the additional Bridge Officer ability and the use of the Specialist (Intel) Bridge Officer slots.
3) Keep making demands that Cryptic/PWE would find outrageous and simply ignore them. i.e., free upgrades for all ships or full T6 upgrades for all ships.
4) Take our ball and go home.
That's not the point. The point is, it should have not been there to begin with. Choosing who gets free upgrades and who doesn't shouldn't be determined by the overall investment. A game is suppose to be fun. Where's the fun in being shafted because you are not a high roller?
5) Give upgraded ships additional Bridge Officer ability and 5th starship mastery, but increase the amount of money/grinding required to upgrade as compared to what is currently planned for T5-U.
(realistically, I think the best that can be hoped for is option 1, but I'm going to keep banging the T5-U shouldn't exist and there should only be a straight upgrade path to T6 drum as long as I can.)
While I like your option, I don't see Cryptic/PWE going for it unfortunately.
I posted why I thought Cryptic/PWE gave the lockbox and lobi ships free upgrades and not the rest. Most companies treat the high spending customers a bit better. You don't have to agree with it, but it is the truth. No one forced those customers to spend more, just as no one forced you to spend less. At the end of the day they may have more baubles in the game, and you have more cash in your pocket. If Cryptic/PWE wants to give free upgrades to those who invested more, they have every right to do so. And you have every right not to like it.
But arguing their stance on it, will not change anything, we need to focus more on a realistic compromise for their upgrade plans. To be honest, you are starting to come across as a whiney spoiled child who isn't getting his or her own way; and I don't think that is an accurate characterization of you.
How is my suggestion unreasonable? Those of us who bought what was supposed to be a T5 ship expect a T5 ship, not a 4.5. I'm just suggesting bringing those ships up to an actual T5. The people who own lobi and box ships seem to be getting super defensive for whatever reason, wanting people who bought from the cash shop to remain in sub par, obsolete ships, I guess so you can keep winning at pvp or something. The fact remains we bought a T5, we want a T5, can't be more reasonable than that.
What ship did you buy that should be T5 but is actually T4.5 (which doesn't exist)?
While I quoted you, I was not specifically referencing your suggestion as being outrageous. You will see in Option 3 in my post, I gave two examples of unreasonable suggestions, at least from Cryptic/PWE's point of view, in regards to the T5 Upgrades.
The lockbox and lobi ships were always a slight grade above T5 ships, and that was by design, to get the players to try for them. The difference between them really is a separate topic altogether and not related to the T5 upgrade topic of this thread.
And, just FYI, I fly cash shop ships almost exclusively.
The only purchase of t5 I dont regret was the Scimitar Pack and the T'varo. So those are the only current ships that will become obsolete for me.
All free give away ships get a free upgrade. My fleet and c-store ships don't. Stop the damn whining.
If you look at the stats and all for every ship theres the freebies we all get with each rank which is at the bottom, just barly above that is cash shop ships, then half a tier worth of stats above that is fleet ships, then a tier and a half worth above that is lobi and box ships. That's what I ment, so those of us using cash shop ships really won't be getting anything for the extra $5 to $10 other than a ship that's almost up to par maybe with the current fleet ships so in the end we're still stuck with vastly inferior ships only paying extra for the privilege.
This is what I'm talking about, cash shop ships have always been the most inferior ships unless you count the in game ships we get at each rank.
As far as wanting something for free, no, wanting what we paid for isn't wanting something free. Personally, I'd be happy with what I suggested, giving those ships 3 extra console slots so we can use our universal consoles without having to give up tactical, engineering, and science consoles.
My character Tsin'xing
At no point did they say we would be wasting our money on a T5 either. We have what we paid for but what we paid for no longer holds the value we paid since both that and our gear are being rendered obsolete regardless of upgrades. It doesn't matter if other games do it, its sly and deceptive. I do not like it.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
- PLAYERS AND THEIR SHIPS - MORE THAN JUST AN INVESTMENT
Across a single tier of ships, many of the differences between ships come from either aesthetic presentation or the character of the ship (usually through special weapons or universal consoles that are tied to the ship). This means that much of the time a player is deciding which ship to play based on some kind of attachment to a particular ship, be it part of the story of the ship, the look and feel of the ship, or the bond they have formed with a ship from flying it for upwards of 4 years. For many players, being able to get access to these ships is a very big part of their in-game experience, they have waited for ships from different factions or different parts of the Star Trek canon to be released, and now many of these ships that players waited for and celebrated their release will now be obsolete. PWE claims to not want to devalue the time and money that players have invested into their current Tier 5 ships, and thus proposes these upgrade options as a solution, however, these upgrades don't solve the problem that PWE is trying to fix. The only way to not devalue Tier 5 ships is to prevent them from being obsolete, charging a fee and calling them Tier 5-U does not accomplish that goal. Yes, the upgrade to a Tier 5-U does provide access to some important benefits, namely an additional console slot and scaling ship hit points, but all that does is make them <less> obsolete than if the upgrade option were not available. By no means does it actually put Tier 5 ships on par with Tier 6 ships.
- PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO SETTLE
For purposes of clarity, I think it's important to note that not all Tier 5 ships are created equal. Tier 5 is an expansive term used to describe endgame ships, however, within Tier 5 there are two distinct groups. To try to make it easier, we can look at them as regular and advanced. The regular ships include standard Zen store ships like the D'Kyr and Guramba that don't have corresponding fleet versions, as well as the base versions of ships that do have a fleet counterpart, like the Avenger Battle Cruiser and the Caitain Atrox Carrier. These ships tend to have lower hull and shields, and only 9 console slots. The advanced ships include fleet ships that are purchased with Fleet Modules, Lobi Store ships, Event Reputation ships like the Risian Corvette, Lock Box ships, and Zen store 3-pack ships like the Vesta and Andorian escorts. These ships come with extra advantages over the regular ships, including higher shields and hull (in the case of fleet ships, 10% each over their non-fleet counterparts) and a 10th console slot. These same distinctions exist in the Tier 6 ships as well, with fleet versions of the intelligence ships coming some time after the launch of Delta Rising.
When comparing the impact of Tier 5-U ships, it makes more sense to compare similar ships, meaning that comparing the Tier 6 ships that are available at launch against Tier 5-U versions of the "advanced" ships is not an accurate comparison. Rather we should compare the "regular" Tier 5-U ships against the "regular" Tier 6 ships, and the same for the "advanced."
When we compare the ships this way, the disparity becomes much more pronounced. A Tier 5-U D'kyr for instance, will have a lower hull than any Tier 6 ship (they will both scale, but at level 60, the D'kyr will lag greatly), and will only have 10 console slots. All Tier 6 ships will have access to an extra Lt. Commander bridge officer ability, a starship trait, and a higher hull. If we compare a Tier 5-U advanced ship, like the Vesta against a Tier 6 advanced ship, like the Fleet Scryer, there is no real comparison. They will both have 11 console slots, but the Vesta is going to scale its HP to top out on hull HP around 35,000 against the Scryer's 40,000. The Scryer, like all Tier 6 ships, will also have two Lt. Commander slots, intelligence bridge officer abilities, and a starship trait.
While players may have adapted to changes in the past, PWE has also been moderately good at keeping players from having to settle when it comes to their ships. When Tier 5 was released, retrofits gave players an option to have Tier 5 versions of their previous ships, the later release of fleet ships allowed older ships to have increased hull and shields and a full complement of 10 console slots, making them equal to other advanced ships. That just doesn't seem to be the case here. Players shouldn't have to settle, adjust, or adapt when it comes to their ship choices, especially since in the past, PWE has shown that there are ways to keep players in the ships that they have become attached to. Tier 5-U ships may give an advantage (if you believe that an extra console slot outweighs all the other benefits available at Tier 6) to players playing an advanced Tier 5-U ship for the first couple weeks, but after Tier 6 fleet ships, and other Tier 6 advanced ships, become available, that advantage is completely erased, and Tier 5-U ships become greatly outclassed.
- "BELLS AND WHISTLES" VS. SIGNFICANT CHANGES
In the developer's notes, they say that Tier 5-U ships will be like Tier 6, minus "a few Bells and Whistles." Generally when we speak of Bells and Whistles, we think of things that are not of material value, maybe aesthetic changes, or quirky functions, that don't necessarily affect the ships ability to function. This would include things like additional ship materials, different ship registries and alternative costume options. Instead, PWE refers to include an additional bridge officer ability, a starship trait, a 5th level of ship mastery, and on some ships, the ability to slot specialist bridge officers. These are hardly Bells and Whistles, these are changes that make Tier 5 (and Tier 5-U) ships unable to compete with Tier 6 ships.
- TIER 5-U DOESN'T ADD ENOUGH VALUE TO MATCH WHAT PLAYERS ARE MISSING OUT ON
Even though some of those additions may seem innocuous, they are far from it. One of the most noticeable differences between Tier 5-U ships and Tier 6 ships is the additional bridge officer ability. These abilities come in the form of Lieutenant Commander abilities, which are some of the strongest, most impactful abilities in the game. Some of the strongest offensive and defensive abilities are in the Lt. Commander slot, including the level 3 Sci/Tac/Eng Team abilities, Attack Pattern Omega 1, Gravity Well 1 and so on. Additional access to these abilities can make or break a ships performance, especially when they are used over the duration of a PvE or PvP event, and are certainly enough to push Tier 6 ships to be the only ships that are competitive in PvP environments. These abilities are far more powerful than built in abilities that are tacked on to some ships, like the subsystems targeting abilities on some cruisers and science ships, or even the recently released cruiser commands. But furthermore, now there will be Tier 6 ships available that have the built in abilities in addition to the bonus Lt. Commander ability, which continues to outclass anything that a Tier 5-U ship can offer.
When it comes to starship skills, ship mastery, and specialist bridge officer slots, we only have an initial picture from the development blogs of their impact, but they are certainly far from "Bells and Whistles." The starship traits that have been released so far include damage resistance buffs, bridge officer recharge buffs, and exotic particle damage buffs, all of which stack on an incredibly regular basis. These are not the kinds of immaterial changes that would be referred to as "Bells and Whistles," but rather these starship traits drastically affect strategic choices when deciding on a build, and increase the effectiveness of the ship by a great deal. Additionally, the intel abilities give a hearty edge to the Tier 6 Intel ships, and further push Tier 5-U ships out of the realm of playability during PvP events. Given the damage and damage resistance buffs granted by the intel abilities, there would be no way for a Tier 5-U ship to be competitive against a Tier 6 ship in PvP, and it is all but guaranteed that a Tier 6 ship would significantly outperform a Tier 5-U in any PvE event.
- SOLUTIONS
Tier 5-U ships are not the solution here, all that does is make the disparity between Tier 5 and Tier 6 ships smaller, it certainly does not make Tier 5 ships competitive with Tier 6 ones. Previous solutions in the game have been more expensive, but have allowed players to play with the ships that they are attached to, and that is the release of "retrofit" and fleet versions of lower tiered ships that are legitimate Tier 5 ships. Release Tier 6 retrofits, possibly as advanced retrofit versions, of existing Tier 5 ships is the only answer that allows for older ships to be truly competitive amongst the newest echelons of ships. Yes, it is probably more expensive, but at the same time allows players to continue to play the ships they love, while also creating a new tier of ships. This could be accomplished by releasing new versions in the Zen and Lobi stores of Tier 6 versions of existing ships, and could even be offered at a discount for players that have a current version of the ship, or by offering Tier 6 upgrade modules, similar to way people currently get top-tier versions of T5 Ships via Fleet Ships . This would also prevent the new ships from being heavily devalued as the excitement over new ships is always already high among the player base (as long as they don't feel that these new ships are the only way to be competitive).
- EXPENSIVE DIGITAL PAPERWEIGHTS
When it comes down to it, Tier 5-U ships aren't a compromise, they are still unfortunately going to be unplayable for players who expect to be able to compete with each other. The problem with Tier 5-U ships is that they will be too much of a downgrade from the new Tier 6 ships. Right now ships like the Mirror Universe ships that come out of the lock box system are technically Tier 5, they are certainly not competitive with the ships at the highest level of Tier 5 (like the Lobi store ships, Zen store ships, or even ships from the Summer and Winter Events). Currently players can choose to compromise and use a Mirror Universe ship because they're cheaper, but players should not have to compromise when it comes to the entire fleet of ships released in the past 4 years. Sure, you'll be able to complete a PvE queue or a storyline mission with a Tier 5-U ship, but you'll be doing so at a noticeable handicap to anyone doing the same in a Tier 6 ship. PvP and high level PvE queues (like No-Win Scenario) may be physically accessible with a Tier 5-U ship, but don't expect to win. Right now I don't show up to PvP with a Mirror Universe Patrol Escort (for obvious reasons) and come October, even showing up in a bug ship will be a losing proposition. With the release of Tier 6 ships, everything we've worked on for the past 4 years will be expensive digital paperweights, holding space in our ship inventory for nostalgia purposes only, which doesn't seem like a solid solution for people who have spent a great amount of time and money securing their favorite ships. Releasing Tier 6 retrofits of current Tier 5 ships is truly the only way to ensure that these ships will remain competitive at level 60, hopefully PWE figures that out and offers us better options.
I know I'm not alone in the group of players that really cares about their ship and hopes that a solution is offered to help preserve the ships that we collectively have spent a lot of time obtaining. Thanks for reading, I hope we can continue the conversation about ways to best address this issue given its effect on a great number of players.
Time will only tell!
I must have missed the blog on the T7 ships and there being no upgrade path for the T5 ships.
I think most people buy ships for the stats. If looks was the issue. Nobody would fly a xindi escort or bother upgradeing to fleet ships. Its all about the stats.
Your right, those of us who bought those ships from the cash shop did pay for as tier 5, did we get a tier 5? hardly, the stats and all of those ships can barely match a tier 4 much less a tier 5 so I'm not saying I want more than what I paid for, I'm saying I want what I paid for. if people would bother to read what I say instead of picking a word here and there, manufacturing sentences from them and claiming that's what I said they'd get that. I'm just saying those ships need a buff, they have for a long time now. Either a boost in stats, 3 new slots added for those universal consoles, or merge all three into 1 console for ships that come in sets of 3. Alternatively they could change those "special" consoles from universal to some other classification and give each ship 3 new console slots just for them. That could be applied to every ship since theres consoles from the reps and lock boxes.
QFT
I have been already suggesting your solution. T5-U is not an upgrade worth paying for. Therefore, full T6 or I quit. Its that simple.
It's equiped with no special gear. Crafted purple 10 weapons. Junk consoles (some level 6 and 8).
I got 1st in Crystaline this morning.
Somehow I think that the 11 console upgrade fully loaded will be able to handle anything that is thrown at us - maybe even solid for pvp.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
This is what the devs have been trying to tell us for months.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
Well since as of today they haven't even finished getting fleet ship upgrades added to tribble the chance of them changing their mind and redoing all the upgrade ships to Full T6 is improbable in the month left before DR launches.
If "Full T6 or I quit" is your stance you might want to start packing those digital bags now.