Also
-Do you feel regret that you bought an Iphone 4 when they announced the Iphone 5?
-Did you regret buying windows XP after they announced widows vista and 7?
-Did you regret buying a 2014 car when they announced 2015 ones?
by your logic, buying anything ever, or working to get anything, is a pointless endeavor because something new and better will always come out later.
I did not make my post to have the thread be set off-topic by someone like you. But I will indulge you and ask that you look up the definition of obsolete and re-evaluate your post. Again, I will make the point that this is a video game and not real life. Please do not reply to this post because I will not indulge your "grasping at straws" to make an argument, and push this thread further into being off topic, any further. I will not lie, I have contributed to this. However, I only wish to make my opinion heard and satisfied. I thought diving into the thick of it would be the way to go. It is not. This will be my last off-topic post. Please don't reply unless you wish to not "grasp at straws" and actually want to have an on topic discussion. Thank you.
A. it was on topic as it was discussion the value of upgrading, and the value of gear after newer gear has been released
B. Grasping at straws would imply I somehow misrepresented your argument, when I didn't.
You said you regretted spending money on in-game items because better ones are now coming out, I asked you you also regretted spending money on things like phones, operating systems, and cars because new and better versions of those things come out eventually also.
If you want to believe that video games and the real world are the same in terms of propriety in conjunction with someone's logic, you are mistaken. With phones (in the real world) having bought, lets say, and Iphone 4, I would not be any less "competitive" to the Iphone 5, and subsequently, the Iphone 6 aside from operating system. Moreover, there would be no competition at all. At least for me personally. However, with ships (in-game) where competition and optimization are all relevant, competitiveness and equality are a bigger issue. Especially when you have already paid/ground for it. This leads back into my original statement. Hopefully I have satisfied your need to compare the real world to the game as opposed to addressing/discussing T5 ship upgrades.
If you want to believe that video games and the real world are the same in terms of propriety in conjunction with someone's logic, you are mistaken. With phones (in the real world) having bought, lets say, and Iphone 4, I would not be any less "competitive" to the Iphone 5, and subsequently, the Iphone 6 aside from operating system. Moreover, there would be no competition at all. At least for me personally. However, with ships (in-game) where competition and optimization are all relevant, competitiveness and equality are a bigger issue. Especially when you have already paid/ground for it. This leads back into my original statement. Hopefully I have satisfied your need to compare the real world to the game as opposed to T5 ship upgrades.
Well, It all depends on what you use the I-phone for. If all you do is call people, then it doesn't matter and you might as well use a flip-phone. But... if you're one of those people who likes to play games on your phone all day... the difference is much more relevant.
Well, It all depends on what you use the I-phone for. If all you do is call people, then it doesn't matter and you might as well use a flip-phone. But... if you're one of those people who likes to play games on your phone all day... the difference is much more relevant.
*facepalm* That's not the point! We are here to talk about T5 upgrades. Not use it as a "relevant" excuse to talk about other things. I'm sure Bluegeek will agree with me.
Ok, here is the bottom line as I see it everyone is trying to say that a boff power is superior to a console slot. I don't think it will be in this case, it seems they will be equal. So let's just strip out the rest of the junk and get to the root of this stupid argument.
With the intelligence boffs you have to CHOUSE if you want normal boff powers or the intelligence boff powers for 6 of your slots, 6 slots that potentially won't have normal powers but T5U gets a console slot to balance out and dare I say counter the intelligence powers. That extra console slot can up your damage, your resistances, or anything else that a console can do. That is a pretty big advantage and just as much a game changer as an extra boff power.
What we have here is a play style difference, do you want an extra power and some more varied powers or do you want extra ship capability through an extra console. Beyond that everything else about the ships is equal, they get the same boosts as you level up, the all get 4 passive abilities and they both can use the ship trait, T5U can't unlock one but they can be used by them and they won't be exlusive to T6 ships, I.E. you can unlock them in other ways.
If your going to keep arguing about this argue about it with the current facts not with guesses and undeserved vitriol. Cryptic didn't put the information out in the best way but there it is laid out in simple terms.
Get off your high horses, wait for all the information to come out, some of which might change and just enjoy the game. No one is winning anything and the devs want constructive feedback, not arguments or "it sucks because I said so". If you want to improve the T5U ships find something that would make them more competitive without taking away from the current uniqueness of the T6 ships.
Ok, here is the bottom line as I see it everyone is trying to say that a boff power is superior to a console slot. I don't think it will be in this case, it seems they will be equal. So let's just strip out the rest of the junk and get to the root of this stupid argument.
With the intelligence boffs you have to CHOUSE if you want normal boff powers or the intelligence boff powers for 6 of your slots, 6 slots that potentially won't have normal powers but T5U gets a console slot to balance out and dare I say counter the intelligence powers. That extra console slot can up your damage, your resistances, or anything else that a console can do. That is a pretty big advantage and just as much a game changer as an extra boff power.
What we have here is a play style difference, do you want an extra power and some more varied powers or do you want extra ship capability through an extra console. Beyond that everything else about the ships is equal, they get the same boosts as you level up, the all get 4 passive abilities and they both can use the ship trait, T5U can't unlock one but they can be used by them and they won't be exlusive to T6 ships, I.E. you can unlock them in other ways.
If your going to keep arguing about this argue about it with the current facts not with guesses and undeserved vitriol. Cryptic didn't put the information out in the best way but there it is laid out in simple terms.
Get off your high horses, wait for all the information to come out, some of which might change and just enjoy the game. No one is winning anything and the devs want constructive feedback, not arguments or "it sucks because I said so". If you want to improve the T5U ships find something that would make them more competitive without taking away from the current uniqueness of the T6 ships.
I agree with you. It is a matter of play style. I would just like to have both . But that's my opinion.
I wanted to point out something though. The plus 1 console wont give you an advantage over the intelligence boff abilities from a defensive point of view. Especially in a PvP scenario. For example, lets say the faeht Intel warbird was going against a Prometheus class escort. Given that the faeht has enhanced battle cloak, it would get the jump over the Prometheus. Upon decloak the faeht could open up with the plasma lance and a barrage of plasma fire. Simultaneously the faehht could use the new scanning abilities to get the exploit vulnerability. After that, the faeht could then use the teleporting torpedo, which could very well be used with a tricobalt torpedo and fire to inflict massive hull damage that would stack with the DoT proc of the plasma. If that's not enough, the faeht could standard fire the tricobalt and drop tricobalt mines and use the Intel magnet to give the torp(s) *if you use torp spread* and mines 100% accuracy.
From a console point of view, neutronium alloy is your best bet and that's assuming the Prometheus gets an engineering console. But even that wont stop the crippling effect the new Intel boff abilities could have.
From an offensive point of view, T5-U and T5-U11s could probably out DPS the Intel ships but with the new Intel boffs, that may be just a matter of play style.
Science captains,however, will have a field day with the Intel boffs and T6 Intel ships.
Now if a faeht tried pulling that on my fleet gal x, it would be a different story bit not by much. If my scenario proves anything, it proves to PvPers that the Intel boffs are completely viable.
Ok, here is the bottom line as I see it everyone is trying to say that a boff power is superior to a console slot. I don't think it will be in this case, it seems they will be equal. So let's just strip out the rest of the junk and get to the root of this stupid argument.
With the intelligence boffs you have to CHOUSE if you want normal boff powers or the intelligence boff powers for 6 of your slots, 6 slots that potentially won't have normal powers but T5U gets a console slot to balance out and dare I say counter the intelligence powers. That extra console slot can up your damage, your resistances, or anything else that a console can do. That is a pretty big advantage and just as much a game changer as an extra boff power.
What we have here is a play style difference, do you want an extra power and some more varied powers or do you want extra ship capability through an extra console. Beyond that everything else about the ships is equal, they get the same boosts as you level up, the all get 4 passive abilities and they both can use the ship trait, T5U can't unlock one but they can be used by them and they won't be exlusive to T6 ships, I.E. you can unlock them in other ways.
If your going to keep arguing about this argue about it with the current facts not with guesses and undeserved vitriol. Cryptic didn't put the information out in the best way but there it is laid out in simple terms.
Get off your high horses, wait for all the information to come out, some of which might change and just enjoy the game. No one is winning anything and the devs want constructive feedback, not arguments or "it sucks because I said so". If you want to improve the T5U ships find something that would make them more competitive without taking away from the current uniqueness of the T6 ships.
Very well described, thx.
I made a step by step comparison with the JHAS I fly one of my toons and the new Phatom Escort as direct counterpart. For what I do mostly in STO I would rarely need those new Intel powers simply through lack of contend (PvP Scenarios most likely but where else in this game are they supposed to do any good?? Pls give info if you can!) and bet I stay better of if I use important tac abilities like CSV or manoeuvres simply twice. I consider 1 more engineering power vs. 1 more console to be equal in my case.
Nevertheless are there any information of Tier 6 Fleetships? If tier 5 compared to Tier 5 Fleet is any indication (+1 console +10%Hull/shiled) this would clearly change the balance away from Tier 5U then.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I made a step by step comparison with the JHAS I fly one of my toons and the new Phatom Escort as direct counterpart. For what I do mostly in STO I would rarely need those new Intel powers simply through lack of contend (PvP Scenarios most likely but where else in this game are they supposed to do any good?? Pls give info if you can!) and bet I stay better of if I use important tac abilities like CSV or manoeuvres simply twice. I consider 1 more engineering power vs. 1 more console to be equal in my case.
Nevertheless are there any information of Tier 6 Fleetships? If tier 5 compared to Tier 5 Fleet is any indication (+1 console +10%Hull/shiled) this would clearly change the balance away from Tier 5U then.
Yes, they have already said in one of the News articles that...
...there will be T6 Fleet ships. So, at launch T5-U11 may be on par with T6-10, but you would probably benefit from planning on their replacement. We also don't know if the next lock box will include a T6-11 ship to promote Master Key sales... it's a bit of a No-Win Scenario for the company, since offering a T5-U11 or T6-10 ship probably won't drive folks to gamble (there are already far cheaper alternatives coming with Delta Rising just from what we've been told), and offering a T6-11 ship would make a mockery of all the statements about not making our T5 ship obsolete. I don't envy them that decision...
Anywho, yes T5-U11 and T6-10 ships will be comparable at launch based on what we've been told; however, plan ahead for the T6-11 Fleet ships... and the likelihood of T6-11 Event/Lobi/Lockbox/Promotion ships as well.
[EDIT] Oh, and as far as using the Starship Traits from Mastery L5 on other ships... ummm, first you still have to own and fly the T6 ship to unlock them. There are supposedly other sources of Starship Traits, but we don't yet know what those sources are, or even what Starship Traits those alternate sources will provide. The potential synergy of the Phantom and Eclipse Starship Traits in particular makes me concerned about just how well the Klingon and Romulan factions will match up... we'll have to wait and see what further info we get on that topic, but the ability to use Starship Traits with other ships does not mean you actually have those Starship Traits to use on other ships.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I can imagine that PwE wants to earn money and depending on my relative mood I dont have a problem with that and support it when I see fit. If Id see THE top trait on a tier 6 ship id even buy it BUT only in order to use it on a ship id like to fly (in my kase something canon or TV series related).
Cryptic surely did some work to design those Intel ships but for me they simply have a none canon, almost none Star Trek feeling attached to em. When the tier 6 fleetversions hit I think I have to ask myself a style over substance question. Hope it will happen a few month down the road.
On many occasions Cryptic managed to believable and creatively expand the canon. Especially Tholians and Elachi ships come to mind as well as the Enterprise E and Vesta.
This whole tier 6 thingy just feels just strange bit atm.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Ok, here is the bottom line as I see it everyone is trying to say that a boff power is superior to a console slot. I don't think it will be in this case, it seems they will be equal. So let's just strip out the rest of the junk and get to the root of this stupid argument.
With the intelligence boffs you have to CHOUSE if you want normal boff powers or the intelligence boff powers for 6 of your slots, 6 slots that potentially won't have normal powers but T5U gets a console slot to balance out and dare I say counter the intelligence powers. That extra console slot can up your damage, your resistances, or anything else that a console can do. That is a pretty big advantage and just as much a game changer as an extra boff power.
What we have here is a play style difference, do you want an extra power and some more varied powers or do you want extra ship capability through an extra console. Beyond that everything else about the ships is equal, they get the same boosts as you level up, the all get 4 passive abilities and they both can use the ship trait, T5U can't unlock one but they can be used by them and they won't be exlusive to T6 ships, I.E. you can unlock them in other ways.
If your going to keep arguing about this argue about it with the current facts not with guesses and undeserved vitriol. Cryptic didn't put the information out in the best way but there it is laid out in simple terms.
Get off your high horses, wait for all the information to come out, some of which might change and just enjoy the game. No one is winning anything and the devs want constructive feedback, not arguments or "it sucks because I said so". If you want to improve the T5U ships find something that would make them more competitive without taking away from the current uniqueness of the T6 ships.
Except an additional Lt. Cmdr. power IS superior to an extra console slot. And even if it weren't, that comparison would only apply to Fleet, Lockbox, and select C-Store T5-U, not ALL T5-U ships.
If you wanted to preserve a difference between T6 and T5-U tiers (and I'm honestly not sure why anyone objectively would), there's still Starship Mastery traits, Hybrid/Specialist BOFF seating, the availability of Intelligence ships...even if you gave all T5-U ships the extra Lt. Cmdr. seat.
My issue is that T6 was supposed to offer bells and whistles over T5-U, not a massive bloody gong. Because that's what the Lt. Cmdr. seat is: a gong that suppresses the competitiveness of T5 and T5-U ships. Sure, a skillful player can compensate for that, but...we're spending to get to T5/Fleet T5 and, subsequently, T5-U/Fleet T5-U as it is! I'm not asking for freebies here; just let me spend money or grind for a true upgrade path to T6 (Hell, release re-retrofits of old ships w/out new skins at T6 w/out discounts, just like we basically have to do to bring T1 through T4 ships up to T5 and Fleet T5, if you really want to).
I m looking forward to the new Delta Rising expansion and to flying my old ships upgraded to T5U (Defiant till the end of times ). I m also looking forward to the T6 ships.The only thing that really bugs me is that they release the c-store versions only and later the fleet versions (pay twice?). The Dysons didn't have extra fleet versions. Wot happens to them and why ist it like that?
Except an additional Lt. Cmdr. power IS superior to an extra console slot. And even if it weren't, that comparison would only apply to Fleet, Lockbox, and select C-Store T5-U, not ALL T5-U ships.
If you wanted to preserve a difference between T6 and T5-U tiers (and I'm honestly not sure why anyone objectively would), there's still Starship Mastery traits, Hybrid/Specialist BOFF seating, the availability of Intelligence ships...even if you gave all T5-U ships the extra Lt. Cmdr. seat.
My issue is that T6 was supposed to offer bells and whistles over T5-U, not a massive bloody gong. Because that's what the Lt. Cmdr. seat is: a gong that suppresses the competitiveness of T5 and T5-U ships. Sure, a skillful player can compensate for that, but...we're spending to get to T5/Fleet T5 and, subsequently, T5-U/Fleet T5-U as it is! I'm not asking for freebies here; just let me spend money or grind for a true upgrade path to T6 (Hell, release re-retrofits of old ships w/out new skins at T6 w/out discounts, just like we basically have to do to bring T1 through T4 ships up to T5 and Fleet T5, if you really want to).
Although, with your suggested solution, we would be getting T6 versions of the ships we already have, it would still be an issue. Since, instead of paying 5-10 USD, we are paying 20-30 USD, for ships we already have. I believe there should be T6 versions of our ships but we should at least get a massive discount given that we have already purchased the 9, and possibly, the 10 console ones. I know for a fact that I will be getting at least 1 of these intel ships for 1 of my 11 characters. But I don't like that my other 7 characters (3 excluded because they fly lobi/lockbox ships) are left to be stuck in a .5 mule of an upgrade.
You say upgraded ships are account wide... if I bought a fleet ship for 1 char with 4 modules, do all my other chars get that ship if I upgrade it?
If they turned around and bought (or already had) the same fleet ship, they would receive the upgraded version without an additional upgrade cost.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
This is outrageous. This game just lost a paying customer with this Tier 5 "Upgrade" system.
If the bottom line is the true driving force then a great potential source of revenue has been ignored. If what I see in these forums is correct then it would seem that this game has more trek loving gamers then pure gamers. at least it seems that way to me.
they seem to be ignoring their target audience in favor of trying to compete with newer hardcore gamer MMO's much like the first person shooter mode which most of us refuse to use in ground combat. So many of my friends are like me. I'm here because I love star trek and like playing trek based game.
I have tried many other space and fantasy games over the years, I down load play a few times and then I'm back in sto. It is my online home. I love my ships It is why I have 29 toons, when I see a new ship I want I cant take a toon out of her ship cause that's her identity so I make new toon for the new ship.
It is why the few times I have little extra cash I tend to spend it here rather then movie theater or other entertainment. I'm hooked LOL, but I love all the toons I've made I write actual bio's for them and often wish they would increase the space available for Bio's.
So as long as they did not make the cost prohibitive I would eventually and with a little grumbling pay to have all my toons and their ships upgraded to t6 and be happy. I would continue to invite new friends and old ones who still resist me (wich is futile LOL ) to come play sto with me.
I simply don't like the new ships look its way to un trek for my taste. I want to keep the ships I have PLEASE. I want to and will pay to have those ships be as good as any other ships [ie tier 6 full not light] I would not have bought the ship modules that I have to make those I've bought fleet versions.
So in closeing if you want me to continue to spend give me something I want to buy, but to offer me such limited options ignoreing those like me who are the base and backbone of this game is realy bad business.
I've spent time spanking kazon and other DR baddies in T5-U ships playing elite versions of patrol missions to level faster, (tal shiar adapted battle cruiser, and fleet sov)... They do JUST fine so long as you know how to fit your ships. At level 60 I had over 80k hull on each, and could probably add a lot more with traits and other gear sets, and still more with upgraded gear sets. So I think some of you over zealous whiners will be ok without a T6.
The only thing I do not suggest is upgrading basic c-store ships and they do not appear to get the same hull hp as fleet/lobi ships. Thats how it is so far.
I've spent time spanking kazon and other DR baddies in T5-U ships playing elite versions of patrol missions to level faster, (tal shiar adapted battle cruiser, and fleet sov)... They do JUST fine so long as you know how to fit your ships. At level 60 I had over 80k hull on each, and could probably add a lot more with traits and other gear sets, and still more with upgraded gear sets. So I think some of you over zealous whiners will be ok without a T6.
The only thing I do not suggest is upgrading basic c-store ships and they do not appear to get the same hull hp as fleet/lobi ships. Thats how it is so far.
We are not "whiners". We are simply stating our opinions and concerns. If you don't like it, make your own forum and, kindly, f#@* off.
On a different note. Has T5-U fleet been released yet?
We are not "whiners". We are simply stating our opinions and concerns. If you don't like it, make your own forum and, kindly, f#@* off.
On a different note. Has T5-U fleet been released yet?
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You mean your worthless opinion which carries no weight since you are complaining about something you havent even tried? That opinion you mean?
I also just said I used a T5-U sov in the previous statement. Perhaps buy a skill respec and take some points out of ******** and put them into reading comprehension. The more I read from you people, the more I can understand why Geko felt the need to go off on the player base a few months back.
You mean your worthless opinion which carries no weight since you are complaining about something you havent even tried? That opinion you mean?
I also just said I used a T5-U sov in the previous statement. Perhaps buy a skill respec and take some points out of ******** and put them into reading comprehension. The more I read from you people, the more I can understand why Geko felt the need to go off on the player base a few months back.
T5-U and T5-U fleet are 2 different things. I was not aware fleet ships had been upgraded on Tribble. My mistake.
Well, here's how it is. I WOULD try this stuff out if I could. But I can't, which is Cryptic/PWE's problem. Not mine. I have to develop my own opinion based on the facts and speculation provided by players who have had the opportunity to try it(Yourself included). And once I finally do have the opportunity to try it, it will be too late.
Can someone provide me with the upgraded stats for fleet ships?
Apologies if this has been answered (still going through 300 pages looking for any possible answers), but is there a reason why Mirror Universe ships will not get a T5-U upgrade?
I ask since I would love to continue using the I.S.S. tag instead of the U.S.S. tag on my favorite classes, such as the Multi-Vector Escort, and given that they're Lockbox items, I don't see why they couldn't get an upgrade as well, unless Cryptic will release another Cosmetic Ship "item" in the Cryptic store akin to the "NX-" tag ship cosmetic item, in which I'll gladly pay for an account-wide use of the tag (since the skin can be used regardless, but it doesn't complete my characters' time-displaced personalities).
Apologies if this has been answered (still going through 300 pages looking for any possible answers), but is there a reason why Mirror Universe ships will not get a T5-U upgrade?
I ask since I would love to continue using the I.S.S. tag instead of the U.S.S. tag on my favorite classes, such as the Multi-Vector Escort, and given that they're Lockbox items, I don't see why they couldn't get an upgrade as well, unless Cryptic will release another Cosmetic Ship "item" in the Cryptic store akin to the "NX-" tag ship cosmetic item, in which I'll gladly pay for an account-wide use of the tag (since the skin can be used regardless, but it doesn't complete my characters' time-displaced personalities).
Some people say it's because the MU ships are a booby prize imo a lockbox ship is a lockbox ship and not to pleased that Event ships get a upgrade but a lockbox ship just because it isn't a bug ship does not get the free upgrade. Won't be wasting anymore dil or cash to make zen for keys as it now seems a pointless exercise despite me being a MU ship collector it's either pay zen for Tier 6 fugly ships or pay zen to upgade your ship keep it but be horribly outgunned and not at all competitive in game
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That's honestly rather disappointing. I enjoy the MU ships specifically because of their unique configurations (in addition to their unique I.S.S. tag and skin), most of which works with my personal playstyle more than their standard universe counterparts. At the very least, they should be upgradable to T5-U, even if it costs Zen due to being faction-specific.
In fact, the MU ships being faction-specific seems to be the major difference between the rest of the lockbox ships getting an upgrade and the MU versions, despite being lockbox as well, not getting one. Cryptic can easily solve this just by permitting a Zen upgrade for all Mirror Universe ships like the C-Store ships.
And while they're at it, I'd also pay for T6 MU versions of the Vice Admiral ships that don't already have an MU variant, complete with alternate console loadout. They don't even need to throw in an extra console or special weapon.
As to the topic itself, there's three methods as to what what Cryptic should do regarding ship Tier upgrades.
- The first is to offer a cheap T5-U upgrade for 250 Zen for individual C-Store and Fleet upgrades; keeping it account-wide for all C-Store and Fleet upgrades to T5-U. Later, once the shininess of their flagship T6s wears out, replace the T5-U upgrade with a FULL T6 upgrade for 500 Zen; which would work on both T5s that were not upgraded for personal reasons or T-5Us that were upgraded for essential use. This 500 Zen cost would also be the only means for old Lockbox ships to go full T6, since they effectively upgrade to T5-U free.
Result: The first method generates smaller but constant income; especially since it favors laziness on Cryptic's part by just having it "there" as a quick and straightforward upgrade. However, this will definitely push away the players needing to upgrade the ships of more than 3 characters, and would be detrimental in the long-run.
- The second is to just offer a straight 2500 Zen for instant T5-U account upgrades for C-Store and Fleet Ships, then once their flagship T6s outlives their newness after 3-6 months, replace it with a FULL T6 account upgrade of most C-Store and Fleet ships, and ALL Lockbox ships, for 5000 Zen, regardless of whether they're T5 or T5-U. I say MOST because of this next part. Cryptic should then move some of the newest and in-game, most advanced, Tier 5 ships to Tier 6 by default such as the Dyson ships, Odyssey, Avenger, and the KDF equivalents. No further charging of the players who've already paid quite a bit for those, though individual ship price of the C-Store ships might cost an additional 500 Zen even if they are still level 50 ships. Bundle costs would remain as-is.
Result: The second generates one-time lump sum incomes, but is more likely to be accepted by players since it shows a bit more activeness on Cryptic's part by actually working to not gouge the players that already did pay for C-Store and certain Fleet variants, as well as allowing the rest of the playerbase a valid means of upgrading their favorite non-C-Store and not-as-advanced in-game-timeline-wise ships to Tier 6.
- The third takes both and ideas and makes it both available; with Cryptic offering both individual ship/account upgrades and bundled upgrades, as well as actively upgrading certain ship classes to Tier 6 by default without charging them again.
Result: This would be the best choice for both Cryptic and players, but is also the least likely as Cryptic hasn't shown more aggressiveness when it comes to really working hard to balance profits and player consensus. However, it's the one most likely to make money consistently as it takes into account that all players will upgrade differently. Some will just want to upgrade one ship; others, their entire personal collection. And it would also guarantee spending on Tier 6 ships regardless of whether they're the new Tron ships, the Dyson ships, or the currently iconic Odyssey and Avenger ships.
I still insist though that they add the Mirror Universe ships to the list, either as Zen upgrades or just as a set of three T6 Mirror Universe Super Collection Faction packs (MU Versions of all Tier 5 and 6; complete with alternate layout, I.S.S. nametag, and skin).
Use these to upgrade your Tier 5 ships for when you begin to explore the Delta Quadrant! Not all ships are upgrade-able.
*This option unlocks once per account on a character of your choice.
So, is it just me or is this completely contradictory? Does it unlock on the account for all characters from being used by a single character of my choice or does the once per account not mean anything much since it is a character of my choice and it's only on one account?
Use these to upgrade your Tier 5 ships for when you begin to explore the Delta Quadrant! Not all ships are upgrade-able.
*This option unlocks once per account on a character of your choice.
So, is it just me or is this completely contradictory? Does it unlock on the account for all characters from being used by a single character of my choice or does the once per account not mean anything much since it is a character of my choice and it's only on one account?
LoR came with a package of Master Keys. One character on your account could claim the item. Aside from that? They were just regular keys.
It's also a lot like the Nafar shuttle box from the Arc promo. ONE char gets it.
Oh and Mirror ships don't get upgrades because they're cheap-as-free.
Comments
I did not make my post to have the thread be set off-topic by someone like you. But I will indulge you and ask that you look up the definition of obsolete and re-evaluate your post. Again, I will make the point that this is a video game and not real life. Please do not reply to this post because I will not indulge your "grasping at straws" to make an argument, and push this thread further into being off topic, any further. I will not lie, I have contributed to this. However, I only wish to make my opinion heard and satisfied. I thought diving into the thick of it would be the way to go. It is not. This will be my last off-topic post. Please don't reply unless you wish to not "grasp at straws" and actually want to have an on topic discussion. Thank you.
If you want to believe that video games and the real world are the same in terms of propriety in conjunction with someone's logic, you are mistaken. With phones (in the real world) having bought, lets say, and Iphone 4, I would not be any less "competitive" to the Iphone 5, and subsequently, the Iphone 6 aside from operating system. Moreover, there would be no competition at all. At least for me personally. However, with ships (in-game) where competition and optimization are all relevant, competitiveness and equality are a bigger issue. Especially when you have already paid/ground for it. This leads back into my original statement. Hopefully I have satisfied your need to compare the real world to the game as opposed to addressing/discussing T5 ship upgrades.
My character Tsin'xing
*facepalm* That's not the point! We are here to talk about T5 upgrades. Not use it as a "relevant" excuse to talk about other things. I'm sure Bluegeek will agree with me.
With the intelligence boffs you have to CHOUSE if you want normal boff powers or the intelligence boff powers for 6 of your slots, 6 slots that potentially won't have normal powers but T5U gets a console slot to balance out and dare I say counter the intelligence powers. That extra console slot can up your damage, your resistances, or anything else that a console can do. That is a pretty big advantage and just as much a game changer as an extra boff power.
What we have here is a play style difference, do you want an extra power and some more varied powers or do you want extra ship capability through an extra console. Beyond that everything else about the ships is equal, they get the same boosts as you level up, the all get 4 passive abilities and they both can use the ship trait, T5U can't unlock one but they can be used by them and they won't be exlusive to T6 ships, I.E. you can unlock them in other ways.
If your going to keep arguing about this argue about it with the current facts not with guesses and undeserved vitriol. Cryptic didn't put the information out in the best way but there it is laid out in simple terms.
Get off your high horses, wait for all the information to come out, some of which might change and just enjoy the game. No one is winning anything and the devs want constructive feedback, not arguments or "it sucks because I said so". If you want to improve the T5U ships find something that would make them more competitive without taking away from the current uniqueness of the T6 ships.
I agree with you. It is a matter of play style. I would just like to have both
I wanted to point out something though. The plus 1 console wont give you an advantage over the intelligence boff abilities from a defensive point of view. Especially in a PvP scenario. For example, lets say the faeht Intel warbird was going against a Prometheus class escort. Given that the faeht has enhanced battle cloak, it would get the jump over the Prometheus. Upon decloak the faeht could open up with the plasma lance and a barrage of plasma fire. Simultaneously the faehht could use the new scanning abilities to get the exploit vulnerability. After that, the faeht could then use the teleporting torpedo, which could very well be used with a tricobalt torpedo and fire to inflict massive hull damage that would stack with the DoT proc of the plasma. If that's not enough, the faeht could standard fire the tricobalt and drop tricobalt mines and use the Intel magnet to give the torp(s) *if you use torp spread* and mines 100% accuracy.
From a console point of view, neutronium alloy is your best bet and that's assuming the Prometheus gets an engineering console. But even that wont stop the crippling effect the new Intel boff abilities could have.
From an offensive point of view, T5-U and T5-U11s could probably out DPS the Intel ships but with the new Intel boffs, that may be just a matter of play style.
Science captains,however, will have a field day with the Intel boffs and T6 Intel ships.
Now if a faeht tried pulling that on my fleet gal x, it would be a different story bit not by much. If my scenario proves anything, it proves to PvPers that the Intel boffs are completely viable.
Very well described, thx.
I made a step by step comparison with the JHAS I fly one of my toons and the new Phatom Escort as direct counterpart. For what I do mostly in STO I would rarely need those new Intel powers simply through lack of contend (PvP Scenarios most likely but where else in this game are they supposed to do any good?? Pls give info if you can!) and bet I stay better of if I use important tac abilities like CSV or manoeuvres simply twice. I consider 1 more engineering power vs. 1 more console to be equal in my case.
Nevertheless are there any information of Tier 6 Fleetships? If tier 5 compared to Tier 5 Fleet is any indication (+1 console +10%Hull/shiled) this would clearly change the balance away from Tier 5U then.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Anywho, yes T5-U11 and T6-10 ships will be comparable at launch based on what we've been told; however, plan ahead for the T6-11 Fleet ships... and the likelihood of T6-11 Event/Lobi/Lockbox/Promotion ships as well.
[EDIT] Oh, and as far as using the Starship Traits from Mastery L5 on other ships... ummm, first you still have to own and fly the T6 ship to unlock them. There are supposedly other sources of Starship Traits, but we don't yet know what those sources are, or even what Starship Traits those alternate sources will provide. The potential synergy of the Phantom and Eclipse Starship Traits in particular makes me concerned about just how well the Klingon and Romulan factions will match up... we'll have to wait and see what further info we get on that topic, but the ability to use Starship Traits with other ships does not mean you actually have those Starship Traits to use on other ships.
I can imagine that PwE wants to earn money and depending on my relative mood I dont have a problem with that and support it when I see fit. If Id see THE top trait on a tier 6 ship id even buy it BUT only in order to use it on a ship id like to fly (in my kase something canon or TV series related).
Cryptic surely did some work to design those Intel ships but for me they simply have a none canon, almost none Star Trek feeling attached to em. When the tier 6 fleetversions hit I think I have to ask myself a style over substance question. Hope it will happen a few month down the road.
On many occasions Cryptic managed to believable and creatively expand the canon. Especially Tholians and Elachi ships come to mind as well as the Enterprise E and Vesta.
This whole tier 6 thingy just feels just strange bit atm.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Except an additional Lt. Cmdr. power IS superior to an extra console slot. And even if it weren't, that comparison would only apply to Fleet, Lockbox, and select C-Store T5-U, not ALL T5-U ships.
If you wanted to preserve a difference between T6 and T5-U tiers (and I'm honestly not sure why anyone objectively would), there's still Starship Mastery traits, Hybrid/Specialist BOFF seating, the availability of Intelligence ships...even if you gave all T5-U ships the extra Lt. Cmdr. seat.
My issue is that T6 was supposed to offer bells and whistles over T5-U, not a massive bloody gong. Because that's what the Lt. Cmdr. seat is: a gong that suppresses the competitiveness of T5 and T5-U ships. Sure, a skillful player can compensate for that, but...we're spending to get to T5/Fleet T5 and, subsequently, T5-U/Fleet T5-U as it is! I'm not asking for freebies here; just let me spend money or grind for a true upgrade path to T6 (Hell, release re-retrofits of old ships w/out new skins at T6 w/out discounts, just like we basically have to do to bring T1 through T4 ships up to T5 and Fleet T5, if you really want to).
Although, with your suggested solution, we would be getting T6 versions of the ships we already have, it would still be an issue. Since, instead of paying 5-10 USD, we are paying 20-30 USD, for ships we already have. I believe there should be T6 versions of our ships but we should at least get a massive discount given that we have already purchased the 9, and possibly, the 10 console ones. I know for a fact that I will be getting at least 1 of these intel ships for 1 of my 11 characters. But I don't like that my other 7 characters (3 excluded because they fly lobi/lockbox ships) are left to be stuck in a .5 mule of an upgrade.
Care to elaborate?
If they turned around and bought (or already had) the same fleet ship, they would receive the upgraded version without an additional upgrade cost.
If the bottom line is the true driving force then a great potential source of revenue has been ignored. If what I see in these forums is correct then it would seem that this game has more trek loving gamers then pure gamers. at least it seems that way to me.
they seem to be ignoring their target audience in favor of trying to compete with newer hardcore gamer MMO's much like the first person shooter mode which most of us refuse to use in ground combat. So many of my friends are like me. I'm here because I love star trek and like playing trek based game.
I have tried many other space and fantasy games over the years, I down load play a few times and then I'm back in sto. It is my online home. I love my ships It is why I have 29 toons, when I see a new ship I want I cant take a toon out of her ship cause that's her identity so I make new toon for the new ship.
It is why the few times I have little extra cash I tend to spend it here rather then movie theater or other entertainment. I'm hooked LOL, but I love all the toons I've made I write actual bio's for them and often wish they would increase the space available for Bio's.
So as long as they did not make the cost prohibitive I would eventually and with a little grumbling pay to have all my toons and their ships upgraded to t6 and be happy. I would continue to invite new friends and old ones who still resist me (wich is futile LOL ) to come play sto with me.
I simply don't like the new ships look its way to un trek for my taste. I want to keep the ships I have PLEASE. I want to and will pay to have those ships be as good as any other ships [ie tier 6 full not light] I would not have bought the ship modules that I have to make those I've bought fleet versions.
So in closeing if you want me to continue to spend give me something I want to buy, but to offer me such limited options ignoreing those like me who are the base and backbone of this game is realy bad business.
The only thing I do not suggest is upgrading basic c-store ships and they do not appear to get the same hull hp as fleet/lobi ships. Thats how it is so far.
A free to play game lost a paying customer who refuses to pay... Thats all I read out of your statement.
We are not "whiners". We are simply stating our opinions and concerns. If you don't like it, make your own forum and, kindly, f#@* off.
On a different note. Has T5-U fleet been released yet?
You mean your worthless opinion which carries no weight since you are complaining about something you havent even tried? That opinion you mean?
I also just said I used a T5-U sov in the previous statement. Perhaps buy a skill respec and take some points out of ******** and put them into reading comprehension. The more I read from you people, the more I can understand why Geko felt the need to go off on the player base a few months back.
T5-U and T5-U fleet are 2 different things. I was not aware fleet ships had been upgraded on Tribble. My mistake.
Well, here's how it is. I WOULD try this stuff out if I could. But I can't, which is Cryptic/PWE's problem. Not mine. I have to develop my own opinion based on the facts and speculation provided by players who have had the opportunity to try it(Yourself included). And once I finally do have the opportunity to try it, it will be too late.
Can someone provide me with the upgraded stats for fleet ships?
I ask since I would love to continue using the I.S.S. tag instead of the U.S.S. tag on my favorite classes, such as the Multi-Vector Escort, and given that they're Lockbox items, I don't see why they couldn't get an upgrade as well, unless Cryptic will release another Cosmetic Ship "item" in the Cryptic store akin to the "NX-" tag ship cosmetic item, in which I'll gladly pay for an account-wide use of the tag (since the skin can be used regardless, but it doesn't complete my characters' time-displaced personalities).
Some people say it's because the MU ships are a booby prize imo a lockbox ship is a lockbox ship and not to pleased that Event ships get a upgrade but a lockbox ship just because it isn't a bug ship does not get the free upgrade. Won't be wasting anymore dil or cash to make zen for keys as it now seems a pointless exercise despite me being a MU ship collector it's either pay zen for Tier 6 fugly ships or pay zen to upgade your ship keep it but be horribly outgunned and not at all competitive in game
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
In fact, the MU ships being faction-specific seems to be the major difference between the rest of the lockbox ships getting an upgrade and the MU versions, despite being lockbox as well, not getting one. Cryptic can easily solve this just by permitting a Zen upgrade for all Mirror Universe ships like the C-Store ships.
And while they're at it, I'd also pay for T6 MU versions of the Vice Admiral ships that don't already have an MU variant, complete with alternate console loadout. They don't even need to throw in an extra console or special weapon.
As to the topic itself, there's three methods as to what what Cryptic should do regarding ship Tier upgrades.
- The first is to offer a cheap T5-U upgrade for 250 Zen for individual C-Store and Fleet upgrades; keeping it account-wide for all C-Store and Fleet upgrades to T5-U. Later, once the shininess of their flagship T6s wears out, replace the T5-U upgrade with a FULL T6 upgrade for 500 Zen; which would work on both T5s that were not upgraded for personal reasons or T-5Us that were upgraded for essential use. This 500 Zen cost would also be the only means for old Lockbox ships to go full T6, since they effectively upgrade to T5-U free.
Result: The first method generates smaller but constant income; especially since it favors laziness on Cryptic's part by just having it "there" as a quick and straightforward upgrade. However, this will definitely push away the players needing to upgrade the ships of more than 3 characters, and would be detrimental in the long-run.
- The second is to just offer a straight 2500 Zen for instant T5-U account upgrades for C-Store and Fleet Ships, then once their flagship T6s outlives their newness after 3-6 months, replace it with a FULL T6 account upgrade of most C-Store and Fleet ships, and ALL Lockbox ships, for 5000 Zen, regardless of whether they're T5 or T5-U. I say MOST because of this next part. Cryptic should then move some of the newest and in-game, most advanced, Tier 5 ships to Tier 6 by default such as the Dyson ships, Odyssey, Avenger, and the KDF equivalents. No further charging of the players who've already paid quite a bit for those, though individual ship price of the C-Store ships might cost an additional 500 Zen even if they are still level 50 ships. Bundle costs would remain as-is.
Result: The second generates one-time lump sum incomes, but is more likely to be accepted by players since it shows a bit more activeness on Cryptic's part by actually working to not gouge the players that already did pay for C-Store and certain Fleet variants, as well as allowing the rest of the playerbase a valid means of upgrading their favorite non-C-Store and not-as-advanced in-game-timeline-wise ships to Tier 6.
- The third takes both and ideas and makes it both available; with Cryptic offering both individual ship/account upgrades and bundled upgrades, as well as actively upgrading certain ship classes to Tier 6 by default without charging them again.
Result: This would be the best choice for both Cryptic and players, but is also the least likely as Cryptic hasn't shown more aggressiveness when it comes to really working hard to balance profits and player consensus. However, it's the one most likely to make money consistently as it takes into account that all players will upgrade differently. Some will just want to upgrade one ship; others, their entire personal collection. And it would also guarantee spending on Tier 6 ships regardless of whether they're the new Tron ships, the Dyson ships, or the currently iconic Odyssey and Avenger ships.
I still insist though that they add the Mirror Universe ships to the list, either as Zen upgrades or just as a set of three T6 Mirror Universe Super Collection Faction packs (MU Versions of all Tier 5 and 6; complete with alternate layout, I.S.S. nametag, and skin).
Use these to upgrade your Tier 5 ships for when you begin to explore the Delta Quadrant! Not all ships are upgrade-able.
*This option unlocks once per account on a character of your choice.
So, is it just me or is this completely contradictory? Does it unlock on the account for all characters from being used by a single character of my choice or does the once per account not mean anything much since it is a character of my choice and it's only on one account?
It's also a lot like the Nafar shuttle box from the Arc promo. ONE char gets it.
Oh and Mirror ships don't get upgrades because they're cheap-as-free.
My character Tsin'xing