Can I make a point though? Anyone trying to sell Mk XI or higher gear *cannot make back the Dilithium they lost to create said item?* Perhaps the better way to do this is to make Dil costs to upgrading items that are already bound or become bound on acquire. So Fleet-grade items would be bind on acquire. But Mk XII purples or below are acct bind on equip. And so that people who are buying crafted items can spend their Dilithium to have their item crafted but need to team up with the crafter for it to be done so.
I'm not sure what you're saying here.
Currently, the non replicable materials are free to trade or sell, but the crafted items are bind on equip. Fleet equipment is character bind on pickup. And dilithium can only be sold for zen not traded.
There isn't a balance between a person purchasing any dilithium requirement to do the actual crafting and someone actually purchasing the item from them in any capacity actually trading dilithium for it. It would be one thing if crafting was difficult and one needed the assistance of someone else, or if we could recoup the dilithium cost of manufacturing the item at the sale. As it stands it's basically a way to convert dilithium into EC via sale of the item. This only applies to commerce of crafted items as items you make for yourself are simply your graft and work.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Currently, the non replicable materials are free to trade or sell, but the crafted items are bind on equip. Fleet equipment is character bind on pickup. And dilithium can only be sold for zen not traded.
There isn't a balance between a person purchasing any dilithium requirement to do the actual crafting and someone actually purchasing the item from them in any capacity actually trading dilithium for it. It would be one thing if crafting was difficult and one needed the assistance of someone else, or if we could recoup the dilithium cost of manufacturing the item at the sale. As it stands it's basically a way to convert dilithium into EC via sale of the item. This only applies to commerce of crafted items as items you make for yourself are simply your graft and work.
What Im askign is maybe have the person who wants the item, be in a team with the crafter. And the Dil comes from the Buyer instead of the Crafter through a UI option via the crafting window. Otherwise, the crafter loses dil they could put into their fleets or reputation projects instead.
Are you actually replacing them with something? Or are you just killing off exploration?
I think that since they're aiming to fix up parts of the game that are of bad quality to them, they probably have something in the works for exploration.
I think that since they're aiming to fix up parts of the game that are of bad quality to them, they probably have something in the works for exploration.
Is there something wrong with your forum software? I could have sworn I read a post by jheinig in this thread, to which mightybobcnc replied. Now, both posts are gone. Did I just imagine it?
Umm, yes, I replied to Jheinig's post. He was saying clusters become interactible points like systems in a given sectors. Calling upon them is then supposed to offer appropriated doff assignements.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I just had another thought about the removal of exploration clusters that I don't think has been brought up. Diplomacy XP is currently tied into the exploration clusters via the diplomatic missions and first contact missions that you can obtain here. Will we still be able to do these?
What Im askign is maybe have the person who wants the item, be in a team with the crafter. And the Dil comes from the Buyer instead of the Crafter through a UI option via the crafting window. Otherwise, the crafter loses dil they could put into their fleets or reputation projects instead.
But that's one of the things that Hawk brought up...
Worth noting that the Dil costs are entirely on the syntehsizing materials into components - so you can build Mk XI and XII for EC only, as long as someone's selling their Very Rare components.
...you wouldn't need multiple folks in the UI to do something like that to avoid using your Dil for the item, you could simply buy the part requiring Dil to do the crafting or have somebody craft the item for you.
You don't have to use your Dil for it - you could use EC or whatever was used for trade instead.
I think that since they're aiming to fix up parts of the game that are of bad quality to them, they probably have something in the works for exploration.
In a perfect world perhaps; but a cynical person might observe that, in a way, just removing exploration is fixing the quality problem.
What Im askign is maybe have the person who wants the item, be in a team with the crafter. And the Dil comes from the Buyer instead of the Crafter through a UI option via the crafting window. Otherwise, the crafter loses dil they could put into their fleets or reputation projects instead.
Hmm, fascinating. A new mechanic where the person needing the item can share materials with the person doing the crafting. Team crafting. I actually like your train of thought here, this could work.
I just had another thought about the removal of exploration clusters that I don't think has been brought up. Diplomacy XP is currently tied into the exploration clusters via the diplomatic missions and first contact missions that you can obtain here. Will we still be able to do these?
Actually in two years, in fact my second anniversary is next week, across two Federation characters I have gotten a grand total of One, First Contact assignments. I'm rather ticked about that actually.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
But that's one of the things that Hawk brought up...
...you wouldn't need multiple folks in the UI to do something like that to avoid using your Dil for the item, you could simply buy the part requiring Dil to do the crafting or have somebody craft the item for you.
You don't have to use your Dil for it - you could use EC or whatever was used for trade instead.
Of which, was already done in this game for the Unreplicatable Materials. No one wanted to spend EC or Dilithium for something that was sold solely through Dilithium. They cost several thousand EC per item at present. There should be an option for an EC upgrade that might take longer and reward fewer of the items needed for those of us who dont had the Dil to spare or waste alot of EC for an item they will probably not be able to sell above cost.
Will completing doff assignments in the altered star clusters still affect the accolade for the appropriate star cluster exploration progression?
I.E. If I complete X amount of doff missions in Delta Volanis, will my accolade progress for the Delta Volanis explorer accolade increase?
Might have been answered already, but I don't feel like going through all 19 pages.
In my opinion, they should. Completing a doff mission there would take substantially longer than going there yourself, for what would more or less be the exact amount of challenging 'content', off-set by the fact there's a mission timer and the chances for failure/disaster.
I'm glad they are looking at the materials, and will make it more fun or challenge to work. As we create our own gear.
Also I'm happy that the old stuff no longer useable, can be exchanged for something useable. So at least that didn't go to waste. And they are looking at keeping it more simple to save on storage space.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I disagree with that assertion. Are you telling me you wouldn't pay 5k Dil for a piece of Mk XI gear on an alt you're gearing up or for a new build you wanted to try out? That's pretty easily earned by playing content in the game.
I think the 20k may be a bit high for a Mk XII, but compared to the 30-40k range for buying gear out of Reputations or the Dil Store, it still feels pretty reasonable to me.
Mk X and XI gear was removed from reputation stores/projects because players only went after the XII gear and it created unnecessary clutter.
Now you are adding a new system with new Mk XI gear that will cost dilithium and are debating if the players will want it.
Not trying to be mean here. I just don't understand. Lack of consistency annoys me.
Of which, was already done in this game for the Unreplicatable Materials. No one wanted to spend EC or Dilithium for something that was sold solely through Dilithium. They cost several thousand EC per item at present. There should be an option for an EC upgrade that might take longer and reward fewer of the items needed for those of us who dont had the Dil to spare or waste alot of EC for an item they will probably not be able to sell above cost.
On the subject of Unreplicatable materials, they're going to have to go through a conversion as well into the new system. Wonder what they're going to be replaced with.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
May I make another point? Why should ANYTHING in this system cost Dilitium AT ALL?
Why should there be a time currency on a system where the currency is already TIME? Time in the form of acquiring materials through Doffing, EC to purchase said materials easier... and or the 7+ days it could take to craft an item(because who doesn't love WEEK-LONG FLEET HOLDING COMPLETIONS?!?!)
Time and again Cryptic, by way of it's parent company, shows it's complete incompetence by trying to monetize every single new aspect of its game. Then, on TOP of that monetization input, creates a time-gate to even receive the benefits of said monetized investment...
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Mk X and XI gear was removed from reputation stores/projects because players only went after the XII gear and it created unnecessary clutter.
Now you are adding a new system with new Mk XI gear that will cost dilithium and are debating if the players will want it.
Not trying to be mean here. I just don't understand. Lack of consistency annoys me.
It's a fair critique on its face - the key difference is that the market demand for a good and the creator's personal demand for a good are divorced in crafting, while not divorced in reputation. Since crafted stuff is BoE, crafters are able to determine more dynamically if there is a need for a given quality of good (like Mk XI gear) and will fill the niche if and only if the demand outweighs the creation cost (the "price floor").
Basically, the crafting system can serve gear for players of any level of investment in the game, while players committed enough to participate in Reputation were functionally not interested in Mk X or XI gear at the time we removed it from the system.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Right now it costs 5k Dil to make a Mk XI item and 20k Dil to make a Mk XII item. Those prices are subject to change pending testing on Tribble - our goal is to make it much cheaper to buy a given piece via crafting than it would be to just buy it from the Dilithium Store, since crafting requires time and effort as well.
*sigh*
Congratulations, you've just fulfilled my greatest fear for the new system, and killed my hopes for it.
Dilithium is already the choke point for everything in this game. New gear, upgraded fleet holdings, practically whatever you want to do, you have to expect to spend @#$@loads of dilithium...and now you want to add another dilithium-choked method of advancement?
I'll admit, you've gotten better at treating dilithium as the XP of the level capped characters, and enabling us to get some regardless of what we're doing, but this was really an opportunity to give us an alternate path, a way to progress even when all our dilithium is being spent on something else the instant we get it...and you blew it. With more dilithium costs. It'll be *cheaper*, but it's still charging a currency that I'm already far in debt with my current obligations.
Remember the Star Trek TV series where no matter what the crew needed to do, they needed lots of dilithium for it, and spent every episode doing the same things over and over and over so they could get enough dilithium by the end of the episode to resolve whatever that week's problem was? Oh, right, that was Star Trek Online.
Congratulations, you've just fulfilled my greatest fear for the new system, and killed my hopes for it.
Dilithium is already the choke point for everything in this game. New gear, upgraded fleet holdings, practically whatever you want to do, you have to expect to spend @#$@loads of dilithium...and now you want to add another dilithium-choked method of advancement?
I'll admit, you've gotten better at treating dilithium as the XP of the level capped characters, and enabling us to get some regardless of what we're doing, but this was really an opportunity to give us an alternate path, a way to progress even when all our dilithium is being spent on something else the instant we get it...and you blew it. With more dilithium costs. It'll be *cheaper*, but it's still charging a currency that I'm already far in debt with my current obligations.
Remember the Star Trek TV series where no matter what the crew needed to do, they needed lots of dilithium for it, and spent every episode doing the same things over and over and over so they could get enough dilithium by the end of the episode to resolve whatever that week's problem was? Oh, right, that was Star Trek Online.
This, Absolutely. Dilithium has been overused by now in this game. Asking more from us isn't going to get us to do this revamped crafting. We've got too many Dil sinks already competing for our wallets. Please, Dev Team, enough is enough. We need a progression system that isnt gated by Dilithium. I get Fleet-grade crafted gear costing Dilithium. But anything that equal to being sold on the exchange has no business costing the premium currency.
One minor UI thing I want to ask about. With the new materials and inventory system, are we going to see an end to 0 EC materials cluttering up the vendor sell tab?
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
and now you want to add another dilithium-choked method of advancement?
So removing the Dilithium cost on crafting below Mk XI...
So reducing the Diltihium cost on crafting Mk XI...
So introducing Mk XII with a lower Dilithium cost than crafting Mk XI had...
So removing the Dilithium cost on crafting below Mk XI...
So reducing the Diltihium cost on crafting Mk XI...
So introducing Mk XII with a lower Dilithium cost than crafting Mk XI had...
...how exactly are they doing what you're saying?
At this point, I think no one will be happy until the game is 100% free.
Right now it costs 5k Dil to make a Mk XI item and 20k Dil to make a Mk XII item. Those prices are subject to change pending testing on Tribble - our goal is to make it much cheaper to buy a given piece via crafting than it would be to just buy it from the Dilithium Store, since crafting requires time and effort as well.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
It's a fair critique on its face - the key difference is that the market demand for a good and the creator's personal demand for a good are divorced in crafting, while not divorced in reputation. Since crafted stuff is BoE, crafters are able to determine more dynamically if there is a need for a given quality of good (like Mk XI gear) and will fill the niche if and only if the demand outweighs the creation cost (the "price floor").
Basically, the crafting system can serve gear for players of any level of investment in the game, while players committed enough to participate in Reputation were functionally not interested in Mk X or XI gear at the time we removed it from the system.
The 'marketability' of easily crafted gear almost always hits rock bottom right away unless the ability to create it has heavy time gates. If those time gates exist why would someone craft XI instead of XII with the 'time' resources? Unless they are not linked at least.
But beyond even that small detail. 12.5 Contraband = 5000 dil = .56 mil EC
*Added a 0 to the EC cost in original post, editing to fix it*
Assuming the EC cost is the determining factor and not the refining time investment bottleneck 5k is a fair market value of dilithium for Mk XI gear. However, I still don't think people will bother with it much but they might.
*Original, now incorrect but kept to remind myself to be less hasty in jumping to conclusions*
Checking exchange Very Rare Mk XI distruptor beam arrays shows 7 pages under 1 mil EC.
Sure, it may not have the exact mods I want, but if I'm that invested in my weapon selection I'm not going to settle for MK XI in the first place.
Their has always been a big disconnect between the value Cryptic thinks something has, and the value the player base thinks something has. That disconnect is the reason the DOFF system hasn't provided enough of a monetary return for Cryptic to bother creating new DOFFs for a new new pack with shiny new mechanics in quite awhile.
At most Mk XI gear should cost 2k dilithium. Ideally the player should be given an option of a low time investment high dilithium investment OR high time investment low dilithium investment. Especially considering the puple rock is intended to represent time investment anyway but without further information on the crafting system I cannot be more specific.
Yes, Hawk's post is where I got the reduced costs from...er...you know nothing about current crafting costs do you? 5k Mk XI is a MASSIVE reduction in cost. 20k Mk XII is a HUGE reduction in cost compared to Mk XI currently.
Yes, Hawk's post is where I got the reduced costs from...er...you know nothing about current crafting costs do you? 5k Mk XI is a MASSIVE reduction in cost. 20k Mk XII is a HUGE reduction in cost compared to Mk XI currently.
a massive redution for a, now dead, system is still a Dilitium sink for /IF/ they make it a viable career again...
You're time gated in the refinement of Dilithium
You're time gated in the collection of materials
You're time gated in the time to complete the research
You're time gated because dilithium goes to EVERY OTHER THING Endgame or Fleet Holding....
It's still a choke point of a time-gated currency...
It's stupid to choke a new system before it's even launched ESPECIALLY if new players want to endgame and DON'T know how to make/spend Dilithium
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Comments
I'm not sure what you're saying here.
Currently, the non replicable materials are free to trade or sell, but the crafted items are bind on equip. Fleet equipment is character bind on pickup. And dilithium can only be sold for zen not traded.
There isn't a balance between a person purchasing any dilithium requirement to do the actual crafting and someone actually purchasing the item from them in any capacity actually trading dilithium for it. It would be one thing if crafting was difficult and one needed the assistance of someone else, or if we could recoup the dilithium cost of manufacturing the item at the sale. As it stands it's basically a way to convert dilithium into EC via sale of the item. This only applies to commerce of crafted items as items you make for yourself are simply your graft and work.
What Im askign is maybe have the person who wants the item, be in a team with the crafter. And the Dil comes from the Buyer instead of the Crafter through a UI option via the crafting window. Otherwise, the crafter loses dil they could put into their fleets or reputation projects instead.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I think that since they're aiming to fix up parts of the game that are of bad quality to them, they probably have something in the works for exploration.
Gets into the whole X2 thing, eh?
Umm, yes, I replied to Jheinig's post. He was saying clusters become interactible points like systems in a given sectors. Calling upon them is then supposed to offer appropriated doff assignements.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
But that's one of the things that Hawk brought up...
...you wouldn't need multiple folks in the UI to do something like that to avoid using your Dil for the item, you could simply buy the part requiring Dil to do the crafting or have somebody craft the item for you.
You don't have to use your Dil for it - you could use EC or whatever was used for trade instead.
In a perfect world perhaps; but a cynical person might observe that, in a way, just removing exploration is fixing the quality problem.
Actually in two years, in fact my second anniversary is next week, across two Federation characters I have gotten a grand total of One, First Contact assignments. I'm rather ticked about that actually.
Of which, was already done in this game for the Unreplicatable Materials. No one wanted to spend EC or Dilithium for something that was sold solely through Dilithium. They cost several thousand EC per item at present. There should be an option for an EC upgrade that might take longer and reward fewer of the items needed for those of us who dont had the Dil to spare or waste alot of EC for an item they will probably not be able to sell above cost.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I.E. If I complete X amount of doff missions in Delta Volanis, will my accolade progress for the Delta Volanis explorer accolade increase?
Might have been answered already, but I don't feel like going through all 19 pages.
In my opinion, they should. Completing a doff mission there would take substantially longer than going there yourself, for what would more or less be the exact amount of challenging 'content', off-set by the fact there's a mission timer and the chances for failure/disaster.
Also I'm happy that the old stuff no longer useable, can be exchanged for something useable. So at least that didn't go to waste. And they are looking at keeping it more simple to save on storage space.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Mk X and XI gear was removed from reputation stores/projects because players only went after the XII gear and it created unnecessary clutter.
Now you are adding a new system with new Mk XI gear that will cost dilithium and are debating if the players will want it.
Not trying to be mean here. I just don't understand. Lack of consistency annoys me.
On the subject of Unreplicatable materials, they're going to have to go through a conversion as well into the new system. Wonder what they're going to be replaced with.
If so, that could be a long wait for a yes or no.
Why should there be a time currency on a system where the currency is already TIME? Time in the form of acquiring materials through Doffing, EC to purchase said materials easier... and or the 7+ days it could take to craft an item(because who doesn't love WEEK-LONG FLEET HOLDING COMPLETIONS?!?!)
Time and again Cryptic, by way of it's parent company, shows it's complete incompetence by trying to monetize every single new aspect of its game. Then, on TOP of that monetization input, creates a time-gate to even receive the benefits of said monetized investment...
It's a fair critique on its face - the key difference is that the market demand for a good and the creator's personal demand for a good are divorced in crafting, while not divorced in reputation. Since crafted stuff is BoE, crafters are able to determine more dynamically if there is a need for a given quality of good (like Mk XI gear) and will fill the niche if and only if the demand outweighs the creation cost (the "price floor").
Basically, the crafting system can serve gear for players of any level of investment in the game, while players committed enough to participate in Reputation were functionally not interested in Mk X or XI gear at the time we removed it from the system.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
*sigh*
Congratulations, you've just fulfilled my greatest fear for the new system, and killed my hopes for it.
Dilithium is already the choke point for everything in this game. New gear, upgraded fleet holdings, practically whatever you want to do, you have to expect to spend @#$@loads of dilithium...and now you want to add another dilithium-choked method of advancement?
I'll admit, you've gotten better at treating dilithium as the XP of the level capped characters, and enabling us to get some regardless of what we're doing, but this was really an opportunity to give us an alternate path, a way to progress even when all our dilithium is being spent on something else the instant we get it...and you blew it. With more dilithium costs. It'll be *cheaper*, but it's still charging a currency that I'm already far in debt with my current obligations.
Remember the Star Trek TV series where no matter what the crew needed to do, they needed lots of dilithium for it, and spent every episode doing the same things over and over and over so they could get enough dilithium by the end of the episode to resolve whatever that week's problem was? Oh, right, that was Star Trek Online.
This, Absolutely. Dilithium has been overused by now in this game. Asking more from us isn't going to get us to do this revamped crafting. We've got too many Dil sinks already competing for our wallets. Please, Dev Team, enough is enough. We need a progression system that isnt gated by Dilithium. I get Fleet-grade crafted gear costing Dilithium. But anything that equal to being sold on the exchange has no business costing the premium currency.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
So removing the Dilithium cost on crafting below Mk XI...
So reducing the Diltihium cost on crafting Mk XI...
So introducing Mk XII with a lower Dilithium cost than crafting Mk XI had...
...how exactly are they doing what you're saying?
At this point, I think no one will be happy until the game is 100% free.
Read above....
Even if the game was 100% free, people would still be unhappy.
Cryptic could send every player a stack of $20 bills in the mail and players would complain the serial numbers on the bills weren't sequential.
The 'marketability' of easily crafted gear almost always hits rock bottom right away unless the ability to create it has heavy time gates. If those time gates exist why would someone craft XI instead of XII with the 'time' resources? Unless they are not linked at least.
But beyond even that small detail. 12.5 Contraband = 5000 dil = .56 mil EC
*Added a 0 to the EC cost in original post, editing to fix it*
Assuming the EC cost is the determining factor and not the refining time investment bottleneck 5k is a fair market value of dilithium for Mk XI gear. However, I still don't think people will bother with it much but they might.
*Original, now incorrect but kept to remind myself to be less hasty in jumping to conclusions*
Checking exchange Very Rare Mk XI distruptor beam arrays shows 7 pages under 1 mil EC.
Sure, it may not have the exact mods I want, but if I'm that invested in my weapon selection I'm not going to settle for MK XI in the first place.
Their has always been a big disconnect between the value Cryptic thinks something has, and the value the player base thinks something has. That disconnect is the reason the DOFF system hasn't provided enough of a monetary return for Cryptic to bother creating new DOFFs for a new new pack with shiny new mechanics in quite awhile.
At most Mk XI gear should cost 2k dilithium. Ideally the player should be given an option of a low time investment high dilithium investment OR high time investment low dilithium investment. Especially considering the puple rock is intended to represent time investment anyway but without further information on the crafting system I cannot be more specific.
Yes, Hawk's post is where I got the reduced costs from...er...you know nothing about current crafting costs do you? 5k Mk XI is a MASSIVE reduction in cost. 20k Mk XII is a HUGE reduction in cost compared to Mk XI currently.
a massive redution for a, now dead, system is still a Dilitium sink for /IF/ they make it a viable career again...
You're time gated in the refinement of Dilithium
You're time gated in the collection of materials
You're time gated in the time to complete the research
You're time gated because dilithium goes to EVERY OTHER THING Endgame or Fleet Holding....
It's still a choke point of a time-gated currency...
It's stupid to choke a new system before it's even launched ESPECIALLY if new players want to endgame and DON'T know how to make/spend Dilithium
Ignorance and stupidity is the player's problem, not Cryptic's.
True... the more they make you want to spend money for their time currency the more stupid you are....