Yes it is. But he just recently challenged Martok and became a Chancellor.
And in order for someone to be able to challenge the Chancellor of the Empire, that certain someone needs to have evidence of the Chancellor's incompetence, treason or inability to properly fulfill the role of the Chancellor.
Think of it as challenging a honorless Captain for the command of a Klingon ship - only the first officer can do that and only if the first officer has clear evidence against the Captain. Otherwise anyone can challenge anyone else for anything just for the sake of it and it'll all end up in a bloodbath.
How many Klingons would find him agreeing to a peace accord with the Federation as the sign of incompetence or treason?
The first officer only rule is in question here because they allowed Worf to challenge Gowron. Was Worf even on the council?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The explanation of Mediclorians begs to differ(on not wanting to be scifi), Actually star Wars has one bit of Hard Scifi. In the Expanded universe, humans and Aliens can't interbreed. Not without gen tinkering and only with the original Sith species.
Near Human, are human offshoot species from the sleeper ship days 25,000+ years before the current story .
This is literally the only attempt of Star Wars trying to be sci fi.... and this scene alone is wildly considered one of the worst moments in cinema history. And never mentioned again in the other movies.
Which only proves that "sci fi" does not really blend in well with the Star Wars universe. Not being sci fi is essentially what makes the charm of those movies so unique.
How many Klingons would find him agreeing to a peace accord with the Federation as the sign of inompetence or treason?
Only time can tell. Gowron also had good relations with the Federation after a war, just because of the Dominion and noone challenged him for incompetence.
If the new peace accord or cease fire or whatever it'll be shows that J'mpok through the war has convinced the Federation to finally reckognize and act on the Undine threat themselves as well as join forces with the KDF in their campaign against the Qa'meH quv - then others would probably not see this as incompetence or treason, maybe even as a triumph.
The first officer only rule is in question here because they allowed Worf to challenge Gowron. Was Worf even on the council?
You may have a point there, I don't remember clearly how that particular episode revolved. Need to rewatch.
What I'm sure of is that Worf was not on the High Council, but Martok was and he was a member of the House of Martok by the time. Need to rewatch, don't remember all the details atm.
Only time can tell. Gowron also had good relations with the Federation after a war, just because of the Dominion and noone challenged him for incompetence.
If the new peace accord or cease fire or whatever it'll be shows that J'mpok through the war has convinced the Federation to finally reckognize and act on the Undine threat themselves as well as join forces with the KDF in their campaign against the qamet'quv - then others would probably not see this as incompetence or treason, maybe even as a triumph.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Only time can tell. Gowron also had good relations with the Federation after a war, just because of the Dominion and noone challenged him for incompetence.
If the new peace accord or cease fire or whatever it'll be shows that J'mpok through the war has convinced the Federation to finally reckognize and act on the Undine threat themselves as well as join forces with the KDF in their campaign against the qamet'quv - then others would probably not see this as incompetence or treason, maybe even as a triumph.
Good point.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
This is literally the only attempt of Star Wars trying to be sci fi.... and this scene alone is wildly considered one of the worst moments in cinema history. And never mentioned again in the other movies.
Which only proves that "sci fi" does not really blend in well with the Star Wars universe. Not being sci fi is essentially what makes the charm of those movies so unique.
it wasn't a normal explosion, though, because it released a subspace shockwave...praxis was a dilithium mining operation, but as far as i know, dilithium doesn't have supspace properties of any kind, so i don't know how the hell that happened
maybe it wasn't overmining; maybe they were testing subspace weapons and something went wrong
Just like the mysterious subspace jump of the Hobus supernova blast...
Prepare for the 'Iconians did Praxis' retcon of 2415!
Just like the mysterious subspace jump of the Hobus supernova blast...
Prepare for the 'Iconians did Praxis' retcon of 2415!
that's actually a possibility...the iconians had an empire spanning most of the galaxy - maybe they had an outpost deep in praxis' crust, and all the mining going on triggered some kind of iconian subspace explosive or something
although, why they'd possibly have an outpost on praxis and not qo'nos itself is something i couldn't explain
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
You may have a point there, I don't remember clearly how that particular episode revolved. Need to rewatch.
What I'm sure of is that Worf was not on the High Council, but Martok was and he was a member of the House of Martok by the time. Need to rewatch, don't remember all the details atm.
Worf stands up during meeting and tells Gowron he dishonors the empire and himself. Gowron grabs a bat'leth.
I don't know if it would be considered a traditionally legal challenge or not, but Gowron accepted so I think its legality is a moot point.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Worf stands up during meeting and tells Gowron he dishonors the empire and himself. Gowron grabs a bat'leth.
I don't know if it would be considered a traditionally legal challenge or not, but Gowron accepted so I think its legality is a moot point.
Worf: "What I say now, I say as a member of the House of Martok, not a Starfleet officer. Gowron, son of M'Rel, you have dishonored yourself and the Empire, and you are not worthy of leading the Council."
Gowron: "There can be only one answer to that!"
and then we get 5 minutes or so of pure worf awesomeness
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I think there is more to J'mpok then what we see. Especially to his rise of power.
And I'm not meaning he is an undine. He seems to act irrational on purpose. As if that entire war was a play to distract someone.
Also, I'd like to mention: According to the Path to 2409 there are no witnesses on how J'mpok killed Martok. They talked in the great hall alone, then J'mpok came out alone and stated he killed Martok.
May be the whole thing is a ruse from the beginning.
Or may be he is an honor less dog.
Or may be he is just a poorly written NPC and I put way to much thought into that...
My oldest KDF Character, Keth, was created as someone who someday hoped to kill J'mpok. However I've seen the sort of speculation you set forth, here, and wonder if, perhaps, the J'mpok story line wasn't set up, from the beginning, to have a neat little twist later on that would reveal that J'mpok is either A. Undine himself... or B. Didn't really kill Martok and the whole thing has been a setup. It has always seemed odd to me that, given the way Martok was supposedly killed, Worf doesn't seem to have ever challenged the claim. As devoted to truth and honor as he is... :cool:
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
My oldest KDF Character, Keth, was created as someone who someday hoped to kill J'mpok. However I've seen the sort of speculation you set forth, here, and wonder if, perhaps, the J'mpok story line wasn't set up, from the beginning, to have a neat little twist later on that would reveal that J'mpok is either A. Undine himself... or B. Didn't really kill Martok and the whole thing has been a setup. It has always seemed odd to me that, given the way Martok was supposedly killed, Worf doesn't seem to have ever challenged the claim. As devoted to truth and honor as he is... :cool:
maybe both? he was/is an undine infiltrator that decided he liked klingons for whatever reason. so he asked martok to the great hall alone to reveal himself and tell him the undine's plan. they made a plan in which martok fakes his death to go somewhere and quietly build an army, while j'mpok runs the empire and does whatever he can to slow the undine down. and in the empires darkest moment matok will return with a huge army and take his rightful place.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
maybe both? he was/is an undine infiltrator that decided he liked klingons for whatever reason. so he asked martok to the great hall alone to reveal himself and tell him the undine's plan. they made a plan in which martok fakes his death to go somewhere and quietly build an army, while j'mpok runs the empire and does whatever he can to slow the undine down. and in the empires darkest moment matok will return with a huge army and take his rightful place.
I agree with this, I think that Martok is alive and it has all been a massive conspiracy to deal with the Undine.
Truthfully, I think J'mpok is a straight up dude. And the latest developments in the storyline certainly seem to suggest that. He's just your basic Klingon, not very pragmatic, but with a strong drive and sense of obligation.
This him being an Undine, Founder or whatever wishfull thinking needs to stop, it's very clear who he is.
I believe they disposed of Martok in this game in the first place is due to him being a canon character, so Cryptic would be very limited in what they can do or don't do with the character, they wouldn't have the liberty they have with J'mpok as the Chancellor of the Empire. Furthermore, there might be even some legal issues involved, like liscencing for the actor's likeness, etc.
Should the STO storyline eventually overthrow J'mpok?
I am curious what Klingon players think.
J'mpok's rise to power was questionable, maybe even dishonorable, considering his ties to the House of Duras. Does Lady Sirella still seek revenge? Should the player assist his defeat either through personal combat or perhaps assisting another NPC warrior/politician who is loyal to House of Martok?
Would returning the power to House of Martok solidify the Klingon/Federation alliance as it prepares for the Undine and other threats?
Cheers
TJ
Good idea for the foundry mission.
But i think Martok is not capable of such a conspiracy , Martok is honest klingon, who handles a things on the spot.
And it is so incomprehensible that Martok lost the battle with J'mpok ? After all, J'mpok is one of the best duelist in the Empire,he defeated the younger Drex and not kill him , he could defeat Worf but he did not.
What would be great Klingon lore/story for this issue of J'mpok is if this whole thing was a collaboration to feuds between Klingon Houses knowing that house of torg was the last really ally to the duras sisters. An elaborate plot like one person suggested in this thread months ago something like this. One founder remained that was originally captured and held prisoner by the Klingon Empire but returned to help deal with the remaining true way/alpha jem hadar and renegade founders. The reason Jar'rod was able to kill this undine on shore leave was due to the fact that the founders could not have anyone impersonating them to incur another war due to unseen effects of the dominion war. So when Martok and J'mpok are alone Martok is taken as a guest to a dominion stronghold in the gamma quadrant where he basically runs the empire from there while secretly building a beachfront with the help of the orion syndicate being able to some how go from gamma quadrant to delta quadrant by using a combined orion syndicate and dominion transporter device.
So with your help as the player outting torg and his house and Ja'rod and Worf burying the hatchet to speak. A false disagreement on the verge of war between houses of J'mpok, Martok, and Duras spark helped fueled by elements of the Romulan Republic to use the undines tricks against them to devote large amounts of resources to give them a crippling blow so the iconians will resort to other means which most likely the end game is for them to use the fek'ihr for a final battle to save the alpha and beta quadrants and finally rid or atleast prepare for an iconian and fek'ihr invasion of the quadrant(s).
So basically a mystery of many former enemies doing something similar to that of the federation to some degree doing what the federation cannot in the eyes of the neighbors and former distant enemies of both the empire and the federation The iconians probally saw this as a potential threat but what if all these heads of the Klingon houses, the leaders of the absorbed races gorn, nausicaan, orion syndicate, as well as the dominion all joining forces but the iconians can't see the big picture until its too late. To top it off Martok's old prison becomes his command center roflmao.
Nah, too late, the time has already passed. Someone should have challenged and killed that idiot back just before the start of the Klingon-Federation war.
That way we might have saved thousands of lives on both sides by not playing into the Undine's hands.
Nah, too late, the time has already passed. Someone should have challenged and killed that idiot back just before the start of the Klingon-Federation war.
That way we might have saved thousands of lives on both sides by not playing into the Undine's hands.
Yes, because the Feds. didn't play into the Undine's hands with their ignorance and sheer stupidity. :rolleyes:
J'mpok is a Undine. Everybody knows that. He is secretly planing to ambush the Federation when they get ready for the Ultimate battle. He will send the Klingons on a wild goose chase and lead the feds right into the hands of the Undine. MWA HA HA HA HA MWA HA HA HA cough....cough...Ha Ha Ha.....
Yes, because the Feds. didn't play into the Undine's hands with their ignorance and sheer stupidity. :rolleyes:
*Chuckle.* I never said anything about the Federation or Starfleet regarding how smart/foolish we were. Just that J'mpok was a total idiot for starting an unnecessary war.
*Chuckle.* I never said anything about the Federation or Starfleet regarding how smart/foolish we were. Just that J'mpok was a total idiot for starting an unnecessary war.
Ah, well, I'm just tired of people accusing J'mpok for behaving more or less as any other Klingon would behave in the same situation.
Metaphorically, it's like accusing an Englishman for his accent or accusing a black person for being black.
Ah, well, I'm just tired of people accusing J'mpok for behaving more or less as any other Klingon would behave in the same situation.
Metaphorically, it's like accusing an Englishman for his accent or accusing a black person for being black.
hey you ever watched House M.D. those Englishmen you speak of don't have to talk with that silly accent LOL.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Comments
How many Klingons would find him agreeing to a peace accord with the Federation as the sign of incompetence or treason?
The first officer only rule is in question here because they allowed Worf to challenge Gowron. Was Worf even on the council?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
This is literally the only attempt of Star Wars trying to be sci fi.... and this scene alone is wildly considered one of the worst moments in cinema history. And never mentioned again in the other movies.
Which only proves that "sci fi" does not really blend in well with the Star Wars universe. Not being sci fi is essentially what makes the charm of those movies so unique.
Only time can tell. Gowron also had good relations with the Federation after a war, just because of the Dominion and noone challenged him for incompetence.
If the new peace accord or cease fire or whatever it'll be shows that J'mpok through the war has convinced the Federation to finally reckognize and act on the Undine threat themselves as well as join forces with the KDF in their campaign against the Qa'meH quv - then others would probably not see this as incompetence or treason, maybe even as a triumph.
You may have a point there, I don't remember clearly how that particular episode revolved. Need to rewatch.
What I'm sure of is that Worf was not on the High Council, but Martok was and he was a member of the House of Martok by the time. Need to rewatch, don't remember all the details atm.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Good point.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I don't deny it was bad but it was still done.
Edited. Thanks for the correction.
Just like the mysterious subspace jump of the Hobus supernova blast...
Prepare for the 'Iconians did Praxis' retcon of 2415!
although, why they'd possibly have an outpost on praxis and not qo'nos itself is something i couldn't explain
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Worf stands up during meeting and tells Gowron he dishonors the empire and himself. Gowron grabs a bat'leth.
I don't know if it would be considered a traditionally legal challenge or not, but Gowron accepted so I think its legality is a moot point.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Gowron: "There can be only one answer to that!"
and then we get 5 minutes or so of pure worf awesomeness
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My oldest KDF Character, Keth, was created as someone who someday hoped to kill J'mpok. However I've seen the sort of speculation you set forth, here, and wonder if, perhaps, the J'mpok story line wasn't set up, from the beginning, to have a neat little twist later on that would reveal that J'mpok is either A. Undine himself... or B. Didn't really kill Martok and the whole thing has been a setup. It has always seemed odd to me that, given the way Martok was supposedly killed, Worf doesn't seem to have ever challenged the claim. As devoted to truth and honor as he is... :cool:
maybe both? he was/is an undine infiltrator that decided he liked klingons for whatever reason. so he asked martok to the great hall alone to reveal himself and tell him the undine's plan. they made a plan in which martok fakes his death to go somewhere and quietly build an army, while j'mpok runs the empire and does whatever he can to slow the undine down. and in the empires darkest moment matok will return with a huge army and take his rightful place.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I agree with this, I think that Martok is alive and it has all been a massive conspiracy to deal with the Undine.
add in warriors from Sto'Vo'Kor and you have something close to a proper epic.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
This him being an Undine, Founder or whatever wishfull thinking needs to stop, it's very clear who he is.
I believe they disposed of Martok in this game in the first place is due to him being a canon character, so Cryptic would be very limited in what they can do or don't do with the character, they wouldn't have the liberty they have with J'mpok as the Chancellor of the Empire. Furthermore, there might be even some legal issues involved, like liscencing for the actor's likeness, etc.
Good idea for the foundry mission.
But i think Martok is not capable of such a conspiracy , Martok is honest klingon, who handles a things on the spot.
And it is so incomprehensible that Martok lost the battle with J'mpok ? After all, J'mpok is one of the best duelist in the Empire,he defeated the younger Drex and not kill him , he could defeat Worf but he did not.
bah, a warrior wouldn't calll such a petty thing a handicap. :P
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
So with your help as the player outting torg and his house and Ja'rod and Worf burying the hatchet to speak. A false disagreement on the verge of war between houses of J'mpok, Martok, and Duras spark helped fueled by elements of the Romulan Republic to use the undines tricks against them to devote large amounts of resources to give them a crippling blow so the iconians will resort to other means which most likely the end game is for them to use the fek'ihr for a final battle to save the alpha and beta quadrants and finally rid or atleast prepare for an iconian and fek'ihr invasion of the quadrant(s).
So basically a mystery of many former enemies doing something similar to that of the federation to some degree doing what the federation cannot in the eyes of the neighbors and former distant enemies of both the empire and the federation
Nah, too late, the time has already passed. Someone should have challenged and killed that idiot back just before the start of the Klingon-Federation war.
That way we might have saved thousands of lives on both sides by not playing into the Undine's hands.
Yes, because the Feds. didn't play into the Undine's hands with their ignorance and sheer stupidity. :rolleyes:
*Chuckle.* I never said anything about the Federation or Starfleet regarding how smart/foolish we were. Just that J'mpok was a total idiot for starting an unnecessary war.
Ah, well, I'm just tired of people accusing J'mpok for behaving more or less as any other Klingon would behave in the same situation.
Metaphorically, it's like accusing an Englishman for his accent or accusing a black person for being black.
hey you ever watched House M.D. those Englishmen you speak of don't have to talk with that silly accent LOL.
You mean Dr.House? I actually preferred him in Black Adder.