I never said I wanted 5 factions. I just think if the Klingon Empire is to survive aliens need to know their place. its only the game that is allowing you aliens to think such things. I still don't see a high council member of an alien race thankfully.
and to the guy who never changed his avatar and is crying that im assuming. id like to meet your Klingon in game just to see this long played lvl 50 well outfitted Klingon that you like so much. My EC is on it being an alien. since you are defending them so.
Also I try very hard not to get personal with things I say and keep it game based so if you have a federation avatar you might as well be walking around in a feddy bear uniform to me.
and me practice what I teach/ preach LOL all along I have been consistent or used sarcasm to point out why others are not following their own beliefs. Probably just a problem with one of our universal translators not working properly that is causing the confusion.
what I wish J'mpok would do is dump any alliance with the feddy bears go to the Voth ally with them ( their beef is with the alpha quad and the theory of origin threat, which the Klingons are not a threat too) then use this alliance with the voth to defeat the undine and by proxy the Federation once we show them the evidence that the federation is heavily infiltrated. and let the war escalate.
Then the feddy bears can show the galaxy their truly evil colors once again by entering an alliance with the BORG AGAIN! to try and save themselves. that is till the borg find out they are also infiltrated by their most dangerous enemy the undine.
Actually, youre wrong. High King Slathis of the Gorn is a (non-voting) member of the High Council according to the path to 2409. He won it when he and J'mpok dueled on Gornar, and its implied he's the one who gave J'mpok that scar, not Martok.
The rest of your argument is straight up Racism and ignoring facts. The Voth view you as a lesser lifeform, they'll never ally with you.
Putting other races "in their place?" Can't be playable then, alienating players who might perfer to play a Gorn or Orion.
@_@ Clearly, either you're a troll or your acting like a petulant child who wants the Klingons to go back to their 23rd Century roots. I much prefer my Klingon to be more than a two dimensional charicature, thank you very much.
I disagree that the Federation does nothing when they learn of Undine in their midst.
Truth is they bury it so it does not get out.
I disagree that there are no undine in the KDF. As a fed you find 1(2?) And assist the Klingons in destroying an undine ship. This gets praise from the klingon force commander.
However there is also stupidity in the rank and file warriors. (and a bit un-klingon if you ask me)
Sent to find Undine infiltrators, a klingon officer you do not know runs up to you and says:
"Warriors! There is a group of StarFleet officers behind me. One of them is the foul shapeshifter. Don't let them leave this planet alive. I am returning to the ship."
Response(s): "Qa'pla!" "Yes Sir!"
Yes I have run that enough to memorize it. . . Unknown officer running from a fight and orders you to deal with a group of officers. . No one challenges the cowardice? None of them question it?
As for J'mpok. Listen to Spock. He believes the empire needs to reassert itself in battle to prove they are still Klingon. The fracturing of the romulans means new territory to take back from the back stabbers. The undine threat means you need to watch for treachery everywhere. And then the allies turn against you yet again.
No from his point of view he is totally justified. And he does not seem to play favourites within the empire. But lead as he should from ideals and wisdom.
As to the issue of Orions and nausicaans and gorn. How better to hold their leashes than to put them to use and absorbing them into the empire? And I do not fear the honourable mercenary, they may fight for money. But as long as they are under contract, they fight for you. (Mercenaries that break contracts and switch sides don't get more work.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Actually, youre wrong. High King Slathis of the Gorn is a (non-voting) member of the High Council according to the path to 2409. He won it when he and J'mpok dueled on Gornar, and its implied he's the one who gave J'mpok that scar, not Martok.
The rest of your argument is straight up Racism and ignoring facts. The Voth view you as a lesser lifeform, they'll never ally with you.
Putting other races "in their place?" Can't be playable then, alienating players who might perfer to play a Gorn or Orion.
@_@ Clearly, either you're a troll or your acting like a petulant child who wants the Klingons to go back to their 23rd Century roots. I much prefer my Klingon to be more than a two dimensional charicature, thank you very much.
Having a non voting member is like saying Puerto Rico has senators. yeah they are there but its just all show not power.
And now im being called a racist when in fact im a Klingon supremacist. providing my opinion of the KLINGON EMPIRE that we are a part of.
And what proof do you have on the feelings of the Voth towards other life forms? we only know that they think they are superior but that does not imply they are unwilling to deal with other species. they really only had a problem with the Voyager when the distant origin theory was brought up. and that theory would exclude the Klingon species.
we know out home worlds were all seeded that canon and we share some commonalities. but its stated that the Voth evolved on earth and they had the common markers with humans. and the idea of them evolving on Earth was the Issue that the Voth had, Not that other species were flying around in spaceships.
And now im also a troll and or a petulant child. its just more of the name calling is all it is. Rather than any willingness to to see that Klingons are different, im not even asking that other species not be allowed t5 ships they should just be treated as the Romulan and have to use species specific ships. give us a reason to make different species toons in the game. by making us a little different. all of you diversity people should embrace this, since its what you proclaim to be asking for. yet in reality the aliens in the KDF are just like the Federation they/you want everything the Klingons have, they/you want the Klingons to change all while not giving up anything of your own in return.
I can only say the same things at this point as you and your ilk just keep resorting to name calling and pointing out irrelvent things rather than actually trying to prove a point.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
As to the issue of Orions and nausicaans and gorn. How better to hold their leashes than to put them to use and absorbing them into the empire? And I do not fear the honourable mercenary, they may fight for money. But as long as they are under contract, they fight for you. (Mercenaries that break contracts and switch sides don't get more work.)
And what is to happen with the High End Klingon tech these mercs have acquired while in service when their contract is up? so we then have to fight a Nausicaan pirate along some border that is now in a MOGH? I say sure use the aliens the mercs or what ever but they can not be truly trusted. even if they honor a contract what happens when the contract expires?
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
And what is to happen with the High End Klingon tech these mercs have acquired while in service when their contract is up? so we then have to fight a Nausicaan pirate along some border that is now in a MOGH? I say sure use the aliens the mercs or what ever but they can not be truly trusted. even if they honor a contract what happens when the contract expires?
Same thing as happens when another captain steps down. His ship goes to another. You do not keep the vessel you are assigned to command.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Same thing as happens when another captain steps down. His ship goes to another. You do not keep the vessel you are assigned to command.
That's the way the federation does it, they own the ships and assign captain to them , but in the Klingon empire the houses can have their own ships outside of the defense force.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
A possible future timeline that may or may not happen based on any action of any relevant individual in between ENT and the suposed battle against the sphere builders. And even then, as far as I remember, there was no mention that the forces fighting are all members of the Federation, but rather an alliance against the sphere builders led by the Federation. What to me sounds much more similar to the DS9 alliance against the Dominion.
Sorry, this particular episode has always been a nitpick of mine.
Besides, as far as STO is concerned, the Klingons are not a part of the Federation in the 29-th century if we judge by the different timeships that were captured from the Tholians.
If my memory doesnt fool my Daniels clearly states that the Klingon and Xindi are Federation MEMBERS.
Also judged by the fact that KLINGON ships were involved in that battle, clearly to distinguish from FEDs, you could speculate that while the Klingons joined the Federation the Klingon Deffense force might not have been assimilated into Starfleet, like its usually the case. That might explain the different timeships, too.
That's the way the federation does it, they own the ships and assign captain to them , but in the Klingon empire the houses can have their own ships outside of the defense force.
then if a merc walks off with a house ship, it's that house's responsibility to get it back or prevent it from being used against the empire
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
if a merc walks off with a house's ship it's the house's duty and HONOR to retrieve the ship or destroy it.
i house also has the right to give the ship to the merc if they wish
but very few houses are going to give away valuable hardware to a merc that isn't actively working for them, no matter how well they've performed for the house previously
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I disagree that the Federation does nothing when they learn of Undine in their midst.
Truth is they bury it so it does not get out.
I disagree that there are no undine in the KDF. As a fed you find 1(2?) And assist the Klingons in destroying an undine ship. This gets praise from the klingon force commander.
However there is also stupidity in the rank and file warriors. (and a bit un-klingon if you ask me)
Sent to find Undine infiltrators, a klingon officer you do not know runs up to you and says:
"Warriors! There is a group of StarFleet officers behind me. One of them is the foul shapeshifter. Don't let them leave this planet alive. I am returning to the ship."
Response(s): "Qa'pla!" "Yes Sir!"
Yes I have run that enough to memorize it. . .[COLOR="rgb(72, 209, 204)"] Unknown officer running from a fight and orders you to deal with a group of officers. . No one challenges the cowardice? None of them question it? [/COLOR]
As for J'mpok. Listen to Spock. He believes the empire needs to reassert itself in battle to prove they are still Klingon. The fracturing of the romulans means new territory to take back from the back stabbers. The undine threat means you need to watch for treachery everywhere. And then the allies turn against you yet again.
No from his point of view he is totally justified. And he does not seem to play favourites within the empire. But lead as he should from ideals and wisdom.
As to the issue of Orions and nausicaans and gorn. How better to hold their leashes than to put them to use and absorbing them into the empire? And I do not fear the honourable mercenary, they may fight for money. But as long as they are under contract, they fight for you. (Mercenaries that break contracts and switch sides don't get more work.)
Thanks for pointing that one out, Feds aren't the only ones fooled by undine, though that doesn't excuse the feds failure to prevent an entire ship from being taken
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
If my memory doesnt fool my Daniels clearly states that the Klingon and Xindi are Federation MEMBERS.
Also judged by the fact that KLINGON ships were involved in that battle, clearly to distinguish from FEDs, you could speculate that while the Klingons joined the Federation the Klingon Deffense force might not have been assimilated into Starfleet, like its usually the case. That might explain the different timeships, too.
I suppose it's also possiable Daniels was lying through his teeth
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Yes, Sirella has declared a vengeance agains his Great House and yet J'mpok sends you (the player) to assist the House of Martok in the storyline.
This is actually not true anymore after Cryptic gave the KDF tutorial an overhaul. You now visit Lady Sirella on Alexander's suggestion because Worf doesn't want to listen to the two of you, dismissing the possibility that there's a House collaborating with the Tal Shiar (something Worf thinks no House would do after both the Khitomer Massacre and the dishonoring of the House of Duras) and planning to assasinate the members of the House of Martok. Only after M'ven's death Worf is willing to listen to Alexander.
This is actually not true anymore after Cryptic gave the KDF tutorial an overhaul. You now visit Lady Sirella on Alexander's suggestion because Worf doesn't want to listen to the two of you, dismissing the possibility that there's a House collaborating with the Tal Shiar (something Worf thinks no House would do after both the Khitomer Massacre and the dishonoring of the House of Duras) and planning to assasinate the members of the House of Martok. Only after M'ven's death Worf is willing to listen to Alexander.
you may visit sirella on alexander's suggestion, but the quest involving said visit is still given by j'mpok, using his original dialogue, so that is still true until cryptic removes or changes it
i actually just popped ingame to confirm he was still the quest giver, as i checked the wiki first, which claims the same thing, but i take anything said on the wiki with a grain of salt unless it's backed up with solid proof
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
If my memory doesnt fool my Daniels clearly states that the Klingon and Xindi are Federation MEMBERS.
Also judged by the fact that KLINGON ships were involved in that battle, clearly to distinguish from FEDs, you could speculate that while the Klingons joined the Federation the Klingon Deffense force might not have been assimilated into Starfleet, like its usually the case. That might explain the different timeships, too.
Personally, I'd love to forget/ignore/delete/make Q wish away that particular episode of Star Trek anyway because of it being a major suckfest. And this is comming from someone that liked ENT.
But that episode was the embodiment of suckfest, not only because of all the temporal mumbo jumbo that makes more of a mess in storylines that it's worth, but also because the crappiest design in sci-fi history - the Enterprise-J. And I like to pretend that fail-ship never happened.
I suppose it's also possiable Daniels was lying through his teeth
There is this possibility as well. Daniels's faction, group of whatever they are probably has their own interests in the entire ordeal and who's to say he's always being sincere and truthfull.
Thanks for pointing that one out, Feds aren't the only ones fooled by undine, though that doesn't excuse the feds failure to prevent an entire ship from being taken
Oh I do not excuse them in the least. Divide et Imperia makes me ill in RL.
Now I do have thoughts concerning an area of the Federation. Specifically Section 31 and Drake.
Klingon intro missions. He is captured, but can't be transported by the Seg'pa to Qo'nos. So he is transferred to your ship. A ship with a captain so weak a branch of the Federation thought was so weak they setup him being put down by his first officer. Sadly Doran was not up to the task. Then he very clumsily excapes prison and runs for. . wait for it. . . A federation listening post. On Qo'nos. This post it seemed was not a section 31 facility but Star Fleet Intelligence. You trash it, and track him to another dishonour in the empire and arranges for you to handle it. And gives you information to find more evidence.
Why?
The only answer I have comes from the fact that K'men will be giving you the exact same missions that Drake will give a Fed captain later. Imperial Intelligence and Section 31 are working together. The Chancellor has K'men close at hand giving him information, and ordered the fleet to work closely with them.
It makes the concept that J'mpok is fighting a two front war very plausible. Overtly he is 'warring' with the Federation. Covertly he is using this as a mask to ferret out infiltration and weakness in both sides. The listening posts could compromise his real intelligence network, so he has Feds uncover his, and a fresh minted (and unlikely to be an undine) captain uproot the Fed one in his city.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
divide et impera was the one that sent you on a wild goose chase after fake subspace weapons
BTW, can I say thank you Captain.Hunter for giving us an explanation for that nonsense with "Divide ut Regnes", if unofficially?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
then if a merc walks off with a house ship, it's that house's responsibility to get it back or prevent it from being used against the empire
If a house GIVES a ship to mercenary it becomes HIS ship (differently from the Federation where it is still a Federation ship and Captains are just assigned).
And thats not that unlikely as you think, things like that happened in feudal states regularly.
That would indicate the opposite of "Klingons joined the Federation".
When the Andorians and Vulcans joined the federation they didn't build Andorian and Vulcan ships any more, they combined their efforts into developing "Federation ships".
If the Klingons would have JOINED you could assume the same happening to them. That would mean no Klingon ships any more, at least from some point on...
Personally, I'd love to forget/ignore/delete/make Q wish away that particular episode of Star Trek anyway because of it being a major suckfest. And this is comming from someone that liked ENT.
But that episode was the embodiment of suckfest, not only because of all the temporal mumbo jumbo that makes more of a mess in storylines that it's worth, but also because the crappiest design in sci-fi history - the Enterprise-J. And I like to pretend that fail-ship never happened.
There is this possibility as well. Daniels's faction, group of whatever they are probably has their own interests in the entire ordeal and who's to say he's always being sincere and truthfull.
Well the ENt-J... we honestly hardly saw anything. (Ok what we saw sucked but...???!!!...)
And beside the time travel parts I liked that episode. The Temporal cold war arc sucked from start to finish.
But I personally liked the Idea of at some point Klingons joining the federation.
Its simply indicates progression.
Not long ago it was unimaginable to have open boarders and a general association that includes Italy, Germany and France (at least not without... you know... violent conquest...), still today we have the EU.
Today probably nobody (in the EU or US) can imagine to be "one state" with north korea or... a lot of african states... or china... or Russia, Afghanistan......
In in "optimistic" Star Trek history progressed to a point where all of them are one "Earth state".
During Enterprise nobody (in verse) could imagine Tellerites, Vulcans and Andorian beeing united under one flag, yet in TOS and later they all are "the Federation".
Including Klingons (may be even Romulans and Cardassians) ect is IMO a logical Step in that progression, especially if may be the universe becomes a little bigger (Easier travel to the different quadrants, may be even into different Galaxies, which is kind of the only way the ST universe could advance from that current point) which might be possible in THAT time.
either you quoted the wrong person or i'm missing something here...who is captain hunter?
Guy who wrote a Foundry Spotlight fedside that's sort of a Fix Fic for "Divide et Impera". E.g. explains that you couldn't stop butchering Romulan doctors because you were being mind-controlled by Zelle (it's not a spoiler; that's in the mission briefing in the first five minutes).
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Guy who wrote a Foundry Spotlight fedside that's sort of a Fix Fic for "Divide et Impera". E.g. explains that you couldn't stop butchering Romulan doctors because you were being mind-controlled by Zelle (it's not a spoiler; that's in the mission briefing in the first five minutes).
well, that does make sense...if an undine can influence a strong telepath like tuvok, someone without telepathy at all would be easy prey
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
But I personally liked the Idea of at some point Klingons joining the federation.
Its simply indicates progression.
Not long ago it was unimaginable to have open boarders and a general association that includes Italy, Germany and France (at least not without... you know... violent conquest...), still today we have the EU.
Today probably nobody (in the EU or US) can imagine to be "one state" with north korea or... a lot of african states... or china... or Russia, Afghanistan......
In in "optimistic" Star Trek history progressed to a point where all of them are one "Earth state".
During Enterprise nobody (in verse) could imagine Tellerites, Vulcans and Andorian beeing united under one flag, yet in TOS and later they all are "the Federation".
Including Klingons (may be even Romulans and Cardassians) ect is IMO a logical Step in that progression, especially if may be the universe becomes a little bigger (Easier travel to the different quadrants, may be even into different Galaxies, which is kind of the only way the ST universe could advance from that current point) which might be possible in THAT time.
See, I'm a bit wary about that particular thing.
As a person and who I am, what I stand for and believe in, I'm completely fine in wellcoming all species into the Federation and everyone working togehter on improvements for everyone. It's a very noble idea, full of hope.
I do consider opening the borders and opening communication and coexistence between the countries in EU as one of the most significant steps in human history. Hopefully, in time, the entire world will follow.
But I as a viewer, as the audience of a TV show called Star Trek for entertainment purposes kinda' am against having the Federation just assimilating everyone in the vicinity like the Borg.
In a way, it kills the point of ST for me, I know that there are a million other things to ST than just that - but I always observed the other major factions like the Klingons, Romulans & Cardassians as a counterweight for what the Federation represents and stands for, and as an example that the entire galaxy is a miraculous place where civilizations based on much different values, beliefs and behavior emerge.
If we just say that everyone's goal in life is to be a part of the Federation....well...that's kinda' lame to me and would probably make for a lame show that not many would watch.
As a person and who I am, what I stand for and believe in, I'm completely fine in wellcoming all species into the Federation and everyone working togehter on improvements for everyone. It's a very noble idea, full of hope.
I do consider opening the borders and opening communication and coexistence between the countries in EU as one of the most significant steps in human history. Hopefully, in time, the entire world will follow.
But I as a viewer, as the audience of a TV show called Star Trek for entertainment purposes kinda' am against having the Federation just assimilating everyone in the vicinity like the Borg.
In a way, it kills the point of ST for me, I know that there are a million other things to ST than just that - but I always observed the other major factions like the Klingons, Romulans & Cardassians as a counterweight for what the Federation represents and stands for, and as an example that the entire galaxy is a miraculous place where civilizations based on much different values, beliefs and behavior emerge.
If we just say that everyone's goal in life is to be a part of the Federation....well...that's kinda' lame to me and would probably make for a lame show that not many would watch.
I consider that less as a matter of "assimilation" and more a matter of "growing together".
Societys change. Klingons are not Klingons because of randomness, its because the environment is hostile and they had adapt to survive. For them that meant becoming the warrior society they are.
With things arrond them changing they might change. Complelty by their own, not because of "federation influence".
They might learn the value of cooperation, and ultimately adapt to that.
I mean it is a natural thing that the views of a society change. Even if I compare MY views with the view of parents those are different in many points.
And those who cling on dated views... well.... look at the catholic church and you have the perfect example on how pathetic that is.
The Federation might change until them, too.
They already become "more Klingon like" during the series. In season 2 the TNG crew was almost INSULTED by being ask to make Wargames, because thats so much against their principles.
When the Defiant was planed it could not be classed "Warship" because that would insult federation principles.
2 Years later? Prometheus, Defiant in regular production....
Bottom line: I don't want the Klingons or anybody to subjugate themselves under the holy cow of federation principles.
I want them to see their societies progress and SOME DAY realize "you know... we... kind of have the same views... why keeping up those needless borders?"
That happened before. And, after all, before anything else, before any phaser or space travel, an optimistic view of the future is what Star Trek IS ABOUT. Thats the real core of the franchise, no matter how many people don't like that and just want to see people killing each other and explosions.
Also I don't want to see the Klingons as Federation members in 2409. Or 2509. Thats something that IMO happens with the time, so may be by 2609. I just like thought of "that could or will happen SOMEDAY".
But, which is why I HATE that war arc, I want to see profession ion the Star Trek universe. The STO story is the OPPOSITE.
It would be a foolish mistake on the part of CBS to make the Klingon Empire merge with Starfleet, it would remove one of the oldest and greatest protagonists in the history of Star Trek, a protaganist that has given us interesting characters like Worf. Plus it would be erasing all the lore and backstory the Klingons have gained since the time of
MP.
That and in universe I can't see the Klingons ever bending knee to the Federation and abandoning their history and the teachings of Kahless to go hug a tree or scan a planet. Plus as others have pointed out the KDF ships were at Battle of Procyon V which would indicate that the defence forces haven't been merged with Starfleet which is what happens when someone joins the Federation. (Sisko even talks about merging the Bajor Milita when they were going to join)
It is far more likely that at the Battle of Procyon V the KDF and the Federation work together as they have done in the past against a common enemy because it benefits them more than fighting each other. Pretty much like Omega task force or against the Dominion.
divide et impera was the one that sent you on a wild goose chase after fake subspace weapons
Led by an undine to wipe out means of detecting undine. Cause strife between two powers. And admiral T'nae swept it under the rug and ordered you silent.
No stopping because butchering a hospital was wrong.
No let's go after that infiltrator.
No honour. Just bile.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
It would be a foolish mistake on the part of CBS to make the Klingon Empire merge with Starfleet, it would remove one of the oldest and greatest protagonists in the history of Star Trek, a protaganist that has given us interesting characters like Worf. Plus it would be erasing all the lore and backstory the Klingons have gained since the time of
MP.
That and in universe I can't see the Klingons ever bending knee to the Federation and abandoning their history and the teachings of Kahless to go hug a tree or scan a planet. Plus as others have pointed out the KDF ships were at Battle of Procyon V which would indicate that the defence forces haven't been merged with Starfleet which is what happens when someone joins the Federation. (Sisko even talks about merging the Bajor Milita when they were going to join)
It is far more likely that at the Battle of Procyon V the KDF and the Federation work together as they have done in the past against a common enemy because it benefits them more than fighting each other. Pretty much like Omega task force or against the Dominion.
Agreed, as I said Daniels had an agenda and would think NOTHING of lying about it all if it served his purposes, and Daniels was indeed trying to persuade Archer towards a course of action. I mean if they ahd flash forwarded to the Dominion war, we'd have seen Fed, Klingon and Rommy ships fighting together, but we would have known it was nothing more then an alliance.
There's also the fact that even using 24th century technology, completly fooling archer would have been almost effortless. I speak of course of holodecks.
Comments
Actually, youre wrong. High King Slathis of the Gorn is a (non-voting) member of the High Council according to the path to 2409. He won it when he and J'mpok dueled on Gornar, and its implied he's the one who gave J'mpok that scar, not Martok.
The rest of your argument is straight up Racism and ignoring facts. The Voth view you as a lesser lifeform, they'll never ally with you.
Putting other races "in their place?" Can't be playable then, alienating players who might perfer to play a Gorn or Orion.
@_@ Clearly, either you're a troll or your acting like a petulant child who wants the Klingons to go back to their 23rd Century roots. I much prefer my Klingon to be more than a two dimensional charicature, thank you very much.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I disagree that the Federation does nothing when they learn of Undine in their midst.
Truth is they bury it so it does not get out.
I disagree that there are no undine in the KDF. As a fed you find 1(2?) And assist the Klingons in destroying an undine ship. This gets praise from the klingon force commander.
However there is also stupidity in the rank and file warriors. (and a bit un-klingon if you ask me)
Sent to find Undine infiltrators, a klingon officer you do not know runs up to you and says:
"Warriors! There is a group of StarFleet officers behind me. One of them is the foul shapeshifter. Don't let them leave this planet alive. I am returning to the ship."
Response(s): "Qa'pla!" "Yes Sir!"
Yes I have run that enough to memorize it. . . Unknown officer running from a fight and orders you to deal with a group of officers. . No one challenges the cowardice? None of them question it?
As for J'mpok. Listen to Spock. He believes the empire needs to reassert itself in battle to prove they are still Klingon. The fracturing of the romulans means new territory to take back from the back stabbers. The undine threat means you need to watch for treachery everywhere. And then the allies turn against you yet again.
No from his point of view he is totally justified. And he does not seem to play favourites within the empire. But lead as he should from ideals and wisdom.
As to the issue of Orions and nausicaans and gorn. How better to hold their leashes than to put them to use and absorbing them into the empire? And I do not fear the honourable mercenary, they may fight for money. But as long as they are under contract, they fight for you. (Mercenaries that break contracts and switch sides don't get more work.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Having a non voting member is like saying Puerto Rico has senators. yeah they are there but its just all show not power.
And now im being called a racist when in fact im a Klingon supremacist. providing my opinion of the KLINGON EMPIRE that we are a part of.
And what proof do you have on the feelings of the Voth towards other life forms? we only know that they think they are superior but that does not imply they are unwilling to deal with other species. they really only had a problem with the Voyager when the distant origin theory was brought up. and that theory would exclude the Klingon species.
we know out home worlds were all seeded that canon and we share some commonalities. but its stated that the Voth evolved on earth and they had the common markers with humans. and the idea of them evolving on Earth was the Issue that the Voth had, Not that other species were flying around in spaceships.
And now im also a troll and or a petulant child. its just more of the name calling is all it is. Rather than any willingness to to see that Klingons are different, im not even asking that other species not be allowed t5 ships they should just be treated as the Romulan and have to use species specific ships. give us a reason to make different species toons in the game. by making us a little different. all of you diversity people should embrace this, since its what you proclaim to be asking for. yet in reality the aliens in the KDF are just like the Federation they/you want everything the Klingons have, they/you want the Klingons to change all while not giving up anything of your own in return.
I can only say the same things at this point as you and your ilk just keep resorting to name calling and pointing out irrelvent things rather than actually trying to prove a point.
And what is to happen with the High End Klingon tech these mercs have acquired while in service when their contract is up? so we then have to fight a Nausicaan pirate along some border that is now in a MOGH? I say sure use the aliens the mercs or what ever but they can not be truly trusted. even if they honor a contract what happens when the contract expires?
Same thing as happens when another captain steps down. His ship goes to another. You do not keep the vessel you are assigned to command.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
That's the way the federation does it, they own the ships and assign captain to them , but in the Klingon empire the houses can have their own ships outside of the defense force.
If my memory doesnt fool my Daniels clearly states that the Klingon and Xindi are Federation MEMBERS.
Also judged by the fact that KLINGON ships were involved in that battle, clearly to distinguish from FEDs, you could speculate that while the Klingons joined the Federation the Klingon Deffense force might not have been assimilated into Starfleet, like its usually the case. That might explain the different timeships, too.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
i house also has the right to give the ship to the merc if they wish
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Thanks for pointing that one out, Feds aren't the only ones fooled by undine, though that doesn't excuse the feds failure to prevent an entire ship from being taken
I suppose it's also possiable Daniels was lying through his teeth
Vor'cha-class. Clearly shown.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
This is actually not true anymore after Cryptic gave the KDF tutorial an overhaul. You now visit Lady Sirella on Alexander's suggestion because Worf doesn't want to listen to the two of you, dismissing the possibility that there's a House collaborating with the Tal Shiar (something Worf thinks no House would do after both the Khitomer Massacre and the dishonoring of the House of Duras) and planning to assasinate the members of the House of Martok. Only after M'ven's death Worf is willing to listen to Alexander.
got to hand it to the klingons 200 years later and the vor'cha class is still taking names. same with the nova and prometheus
and we complain about the galaxy and a excelsior still being in service in 2409
i actually just popped ingame to confirm he was still the quest giver, as i checked the wiki first, which claims the same thing, but i take anything said on the wiki with a grain of salt unless it's backed up with solid proof
the b'rel has been in service just as long as the excelsior, possibly even longer
some designs were just made to last
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Personally, I'd love to forget/ignore/delete/make Q wish away that particular episode of Star Trek anyway because of it being a major suckfest. And this is comming from someone that liked ENT.
But that episode was the embodiment of suckfest, not only because of all the temporal mumbo jumbo that makes more of a mess in storylines that it's worth, but also because the crappiest design in sci-fi history - the Enterprise-J. And I like to pretend that fail-ship never happened.
There is this possibility as well. Daniels's faction, group of whatever they are probably has their own interests in the entire ordeal and who's to say he's always being sincere and truthfull.
Oh I do not excuse them in the least. Divide et Imperia makes me ill in RL.
Now I do have thoughts concerning an area of the Federation. Specifically Section 31 and Drake.
Klingon intro missions. He is captured, but can't be transported by the Seg'pa to Qo'nos. So he is transferred to your ship. A ship with a captain so weak a branch of the Federation thought was so weak they setup him being put down by his first officer. Sadly Doran was not up to the task. Then he very clumsily excapes prison and runs for. . wait for it. . . A federation listening post. On Qo'nos. This post it seemed was not a section 31 facility but Star Fleet Intelligence. You trash it, and track him to another dishonour in the empire and arranges for you to handle it. And gives you information to find more evidence.
Why?
The only answer I have comes from the fact that K'men will be giving you the exact same missions that Drake will give a Fed captain later. Imperial Intelligence and Section 31 are working together. The Chancellor has K'men close at hand giving him information, and ordered the fleet to work closely with them.
It makes the concept that J'mpok is fighting a two front war very plausible. Overtly he is 'warring' with the Federation. Covertly he is using this as a mask to ferret out infiltration and weakness in both sides. The listening posts could compromise his real intelligence network, so he has Feds uncover his, and a fresh minted (and unlikely to be an undine) captain uproot the Fed one in his city.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
divide et impera was the one that sent you on a wild goose chase after fake subspace weapons
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
BTW, can I say thank you Captain.Hunter for giving us an explanation for that nonsense with "Divide ut Regnes", if unofficially?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If a house GIVES a ship to mercenary it becomes HIS ship (differently from the Federation where it is still a Federation ship and Captains are just assigned).
And thats not that unlikely as you think, things like that happened in feudal states regularly.
That would indicate the opposite of "Klingons joined the Federation".
When the Andorians and Vulcans joined the federation they didn't build Andorian and Vulcan ships any more, they combined their efforts into developing "Federation ships".
If the Klingons would have JOINED you could assume the same happening to them. That would mean no Klingon ships any more, at least from some point on...
Still since daniels SAYS they joined... well...
Well the ENt-J... we honestly hardly saw anything. (Ok what we saw sucked but...???!!!...)
And beside the time travel parts I liked that episode. The Temporal cold war arc sucked from start to finish.
But I personally liked the Idea of at some point Klingons joining the federation.
Its simply indicates progression.
Not long ago it was unimaginable to have open boarders and a general association that includes Italy, Germany and France (at least not without... you know... violent conquest...), still today we have the EU.
Today probably nobody (in the EU or US) can imagine to be "one state" with north korea or... a lot of african states... or china... or Russia, Afghanistan......
In in "optimistic" Star Trek history progressed to a point where all of them are one "Earth state".
During Enterprise nobody (in verse) could imagine Tellerites, Vulcans and Andorian beeing united under one flag, yet in TOS and later they all are "the Federation".
Including Klingons (may be even Romulans and Cardassians) ect is IMO a logical Step in that progression, especially if may be the universe becomes a little bigger (Easier travel to the different quadrants, may be even into different Galaxies, which is kind of the only way the ST universe could advance from that current point) which might be possible in THAT time.
Guy who wrote a Foundry Spotlight fedside that's sort of a Fix Fic for "Divide et Impera". E.g. explains that you couldn't stop butchering Romulan doctors because you were being mind-controlled by Zelle (it's not a spoiler; that's in the mission briefing in the first five minutes).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
See, I'm a bit wary about that particular thing.
As a person and who I am, what I stand for and believe in, I'm completely fine in wellcoming all species into the Federation and everyone working togehter on improvements for everyone. It's a very noble idea, full of hope.
I do consider opening the borders and opening communication and coexistence between the countries in EU as one of the most significant steps in human history. Hopefully, in time, the entire world will follow.
But I as a viewer, as the audience of a TV show called Star Trek for entertainment purposes kinda' am against having the Federation just assimilating everyone in the vicinity like the Borg.
In a way, it kills the point of ST for me, I know that there are a million other things to ST than just that - but I always observed the other major factions like the Klingons, Romulans & Cardassians as a counterweight for what the Federation represents and stands for, and as an example that the entire galaxy is a miraculous place where civilizations based on much different values, beliefs and behavior emerge.
If we just say that everyone's goal in life is to be a part of the Federation....well...that's kinda' lame to me and would probably make for a lame show that not many would watch.
I consider that less as a matter of "assimilation" and more a matter of "growing together".
Societys change. Klingons are not Klingons because of randomness, its because the environment is hostile and they had adapt to survive. For them that meant becoming the warrior society they are.
With things arrond them changing they might change. Complelty by their own, not because of "federation influence".
They might learn the value of cooperation, and ultimately adapt to that.
I mean it is a natural thing that the views of a society change. Even if I compare MY views with the view of parents those are different in many points.
And those who cling on dated views... well.... look at the catholic church and you have the perfect example on how pathetic that is.
The Federation might change until them, too.
They already become "more Klingon like" during the series. In season 2 the TNG crew was almost INSULTED by being ask to make Wargames, because thats so much against their principles.
When the Defiant was planed it could not be classed "Warship" because that would insult federation principles.
2 Years later? Prometheus, Defiant in regular production....
Bottom line: I don't want the Klingons or anybody to subjugate themselves under the holy cow of federation principles.
I want them to see their societies progress and SOME DAY realize "you know... we... kind of have the same views... why keeping up those needless borders?"
That happened before. And, after all, before anything else, before any phaser or space travel, an optimistic view of the future is what Star Trek IS ABOUT. Thats the real core of the franchise, no matter how many people don't like that and just want to see people killing each other and explosions.
Also I don't want to see the Klingons as Federation members in 2409. Or 2509. Thats something that IMO happens with the time, so may be by 2609. I just like thought of "that could or will happen SOMEDAY".
But, which is why I HATE that war arc, I want to see profession ion the Star Trek universe. The STO story is the OPPOSITE.
MP.
That and in universe I can't see the Klingons ever bending knee to the Federation and abandoning their history and the teachings of Kahless to go hug a tree or scan a planet. Plus as others have pointed out the KDF ships were at Battle of Procyon V which would indicate that the defence forces haven't been merged with Starfleet which is what happens when someone joins the Federation. (Sisko even talks about merging the Bajor Milita when they were going to join)
It is far more likely that at the Battle of Procyon V the KDF and the Federation work together as they have done in the past against a common enemy because it benefits them more than fighting each other. Pretty much like Omega task force or against the Dominion.
Led by an undine to wipe out means of detecting undine. Cause strife between two powers. And admiral T'nae swept it under the rug and ordered you silent.
No stopping because butchering a hospital was wrong.
No let's go after that infiltrator.
No honour. Just bile.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Agreed, as I said Daniels had an agenda and would think NOTHING of lying about it all if it served his purposes, and Daniels was indeed trying to persuade Archer towards a course of action. I mean if they ahd flash forwarded to the Dominion war, we'd have seen Fed, Klingon and Rommy ships fighting together, but we would have known it was nothing more then an alliance.
There's also the fact that even using 24th century technology, completly fooling archer would have been almost effortless. I speak of course of holodecks.