LOL The things people on this forum will pull out off their respective posteriors, in belief that it could help them have their cake and eat it, too. :P
LOL The things people on this forum will pull out off their respective posteriors, in belief that it could help them have their cake and eat it, too. :P
I know I disagree with you a lot, but this time, this time you speak the truth. :P
The United Federation of planets never had a military department.. lol. Starfleet is just the deparment oriented to exploration and where all the cadets train, to say it in easy words lol.
The reason "Starfleet" dont use cloak its because of their directives. Thats all. They will never use something that is obviously oriented to "battle". It had been that way since i can remember, unless things changed in the post-nemesis movie.
Starfleet had MACO.
Military Assualt Command Operations.
Sounds military to me.
LOL The things people on this forum will pull out off their respective posteriors, in belief that it could help them have their cake and eat it, too. :P
You mean things like cake spoons? Or maybe trowels?
The Federation is the Civilian Government. Starfleet is the military and they ARE a military organization. If you apply common sense to it, there is no reason Starfleet would reject Battle Cloaking.
However, I agree that the factions should be distinctive.
With that said...it is about time all Federation ships had metaphasic scanning abilities to expose cloaked ships in say...a 5 km distance. It would be in line with the culture, and it would balance.
I like this idea. Except I'd push the distance out to 10km and give a percentile chance on detection as the cloaked ship gets closer - 5% at 10km, 50% at 5km, 100% at 0km. Something like that anyway. And it should be a button you'd have to push since cloak works that way.
It is unfortunate that you guys always blow everything so out of porportion on these forums.
I have already said that it probably won't end up in game, but the fact of the matter is, All of the barriers to the Federation using Battle Cloaks are gone.
1. The pact with the Romulan Star Empire I would think died as soon as a halfbreed weirdo took over with an army of outsiders.
2. The Romulan Republic SHOULD trust the Federation more then the KDF, and with all the assistance they need right now, I cannot see them holding back on at least a sample of the technology that the Federation can replicate.
3. The Prime Directive does not stand in the way of this, because it is about not interfering in inferior technologically advanced species, interfere in timelines, etc. There is nothing in the Prime Directive about not using any means necessary to protect the citizens of the Federation, and basically the Alpha quadrant for that matter. The KDF can't/won't do it, and you can all get pissed as much as you want. They are so busy fighting themselves, and doing Undine ghost hunts, they wouldn't last 2 seconds against a focused incursion by a fleet of the magnitude of the Borg invasion of Vega even.
4. They already have Tactical Escorts, Battle Cruisers, and Dreadnoughts that have cloaking, why wouldn't they be able to cloak in the heat of battle?
On another note, I seriously can't see another century of a divided Alpha and Beta quadrant in the future of the Star Trek galaxy. At least the way it's been written out in an STO point of view, there is nowhere left to expand in the main areas of the big 3 powers, and they have bigger things to worry about, and also as had been said in another topic, with the speed of Transwarp(some players are reporting Transwarp 50 speeds) not only is the Delta quadrant easily within our grasps, but other galaxies are explorable now.
I hope the haters who respond to this will actually read some of this before they whip out their flaming fingers.
Honestly the federation doesn't need battle cloaks. Infact I'd go so far as to say neither do the romulans since they have warp singularities.
IMHO the only faction that should have battle cloaks and it should be on ALL ships, is the Klingons. Not just their BoP.
That's just my two cents.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but now I think it is only logical that Starfleet has some ships that have Battle Cloak. It seems preposterous to think, with the alliance of the Romulan Republic, and the aid the Federation is rendering, and the basic collapse of the Romulan Star Empire as a serious threat to the Federation, that they still don't, or can't have obtained a Battle Cloaking device to install into at least one modern escort design. Hell if you have to for whatever reason, make the ship require Singularity cores, but seeing as how they have Cloaks running off matter/antimatter warp cores, and the KDF have battle cloaks on BoP's using same reactor technology, I don't see where the issue comes in.
If this is about fairness, or balance, then give the Romulans a ship with regular cloak that gets some native bonus that Federation ships get(what would that be?) and give the KDF something too, but I'm just trying to state that in this era of the Star Trek galaxy, and with the state of the Federation/Romulan Star Empire, and the threats coming in from every angle, I don't understand why they wouldn't have a ship with Battle Cloak.
Said it before, saying it again, the real dead horse is the supposed reasons for all fed and klingon ships not having battle cloak, it won't change anything for faction incentives as klingons will still have more cloak ship options, and the romulans still have the edge in the use of cloaks.
That's the annoying thing about being a fed who loves his faction for what it is (and battle cloak IS canon for the billionth time), but it seems to be a taboo to have anything that's considered fun on the blue side of the fence. Damn shame.
The alliance with the Romulan Republic has absolutely nothing to do with the Federation not being able to develop cloaking technology. It is the renewed treaty with the Romulan Star Empire that prevents Federation from developing cloaking technology. In the Path to 2409 accolades, it states that the Federation got caught using cloaking technology and had to renew their pledge of no cloaking technology to repair the damage to Romulan and Klingon relations. Numerous Starfleet personnel got fired due to this mess.
The alliance with the Romulan Republic has absolutely nothing to do with the Federation not being able to develop cloaking technology. It is the renewed treaty with the Romulan Star Empire that prevents Federation from developing cloaking technology. In the Path to 2409 accolades, it states that the Federation got caught using cloaking technology and had to renew their pledge of no cloaking technology to repair the damage to Romulan and Klingon relations. Numerous Starfleet personnel got fired due to this mess.
Well I'll freely admit that I, and numerous other Starfleet captains violate this treaty every day.
My main flies an Avenger, and until I can afford a complete revamp of consoles(not to far away) I'm gonna keep using my cloaking device.
One alt I have flies a Tactical Escort Retrofit, and he uses a cloaking device.
I will stop beating this horse because I understand what people are saying about the gameplay balance(though i think it's slightly irrelavent) but my point stands that there is no reason for them to worry about violating anything anymore. Flex the muscle if the decrepit RSE cries, and the KDF.....who cares what they think right now, we are at full scale war.
If you want Starfleet with Battle Cloak, play Romulan on the Starfleet side.
Easy peasy!
Not even the Negh'var or Vor'cha have a Battle Cloak. Not even the Qin Raptor has a Battle Cloak.
Why should the Defiant have Battle Cloak, which might be the only one that might even be considered for the Battle Cloak? The Qin doesn't have a Battle Cloak!
You might argue that the Defiant & GalX Cloak console is badwrong, and I could be down with moving the console to an ability like the Qin or the Klingon Cruisers... but Battle Cloak? Seriously?
For the KDF to have Battle Cloak, you have to drive a BoP, which is held together by bubble gum & duct tape.
Romulans having Battle Cloak really has no place in wanting Romulan abilities on every faction.
Well I'll freely admit that I, and numerous other Starfleet captains violate this treaty every day.
My main flies an Avenger, and until I can afford a complete revamp of consoles(not to far away) I'm gonna keep using my cloaking device.
One alt I have flies a Tactical Escort Retrofit, and he uses a cloaking device.
I will stop beating this horse because I understand what people are saying about the gameplay balance(though i think it's slightly irrelavent) but my point stands that there is no reason for them to worry about violating anything anymore. Flex the muscle if the decrepit RSE cries, and the KDF.....who cares what they think right now, we are at full scale war.
I am fine with Cloak Consoles , but Battle Cloak should be a Romulan only ability .
Only place Battle Cloak becomes extremely OP is PvP and that can be ended by having Cryptic block cloaking in PvP battle Groups ....
But in all forms of the matter Federation can have Battle Cloak by playing a Romulan Toon and same wtih Klingon .
Not all ships have battle cloak and only 1 type has the ability to fire while in it , maybe I am wrong I do not know .
On the extreme of this would be like saying , well because the scimitar can a power attack , all ships should be able to do it .
I mean really this is a fall downwards .
Klingons are a small population because not enough ships or tailor customizations .
Romulans ..........I think are decent size population but really they have not much tailor customization and ships either.
Federation on the other hand has the largest Population with large amounts of ships , tailor customiztions , Cstore items ..................etc
I mean Federation is pretty spoiled to be honest .
It shouldn't be a romulan ability at all! Romulans get singularities, basically a bunch of free science abilities. So giving them all battle cloak merely made them more powerful than any other faction.
Sorry IMO, romulans should LOSE the battle cloak ability, and battle cloak should be given to ALL klingon ships.
And as far as ships that can fire while cloaked, there are to. The T'varo refit, and the B'Rel refit. So again romulans in the cloaking department get everything the Klingon's have and have singularity abilities to boot.
So tell me, what incentive is there to play klingon when romulans get the best of everything?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
It shouldn't be a romulan ability at all! Romulans get singularities, basically a bunch of free science abilities. So giving them all battle cloak merely made them more powerful than any other faction.
Sorry IMO, romulans should LOSE the battle cloak ability, and battle cloak should be given to ALL klingon ships.
And as far as ships that can fire while cloaked, there are to. The T'varo refit, and the B'Rel refit. So again romulans in the cloaking department get everything the Klingon's have and have singularity abilities to boot.
So tell me, what incentive is there to play klingon when romulans get the best of everything?
Not to mention that Klingon BOPs pay a heavy price is ship durability and Boff stations for the privilege of battle cloak.
Not to mention that Klingon BOPs pay a heavy price is ship durability and Boff stations for the privilege of battle cloak.
You mean the difference in hull strength which will be nullified shortly? Or perhaps those horrible universal boff slots or that dreadful flanking bonus.
MES is not really an alternative for cloak, battle cloak or worse enhanced battle cloak.
Significant improvements in stealth detection and a build-in camouflage (detect from 5-8 Km out. depending on size of the vessel).
It does not have to be cloak or BC/EBC, but something to level the playing field would be nice.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
As I recall, the cloak the Defiant had was an older Romulan version, and it was essentially a "console". Federation ships don't need cloaking IMO. I rarely use it on my Defiant and Galaxy X.
You should use it more then. 15% Bonus damage is huge, even if it's short. My Avenger beam boat does ridiculous damage while buffed coming out of cloak.
I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but now I think it is only logical that Starfleet has some ships that have Battle Cloak. It seems preposterous to think, with the alliance of the Romulan Republic, and the aid the Federation is rendering, and the basic collapse of the Romulan Star Empire as a serious threat to the Federation, that they still don't, or can't have obtained a Battle Cloaking device to install into at least one modern escort design. Hell if you have to for whatever reason, make the ship require Singularity cores, but seeing as how they have Cloaks running off matter/antimatter warp cores, and the KDF have battle cloaks on BoP's using same reactor technology, I don't see where the issue comes in.
If this is about fairness, or balance, then give the Romulans a ship with regular cloak that gets some native bonus that Federation ships get(what would that be?) and give the KDF something too, but I'm just trying to state that in this era of the Star Trek galaxy, and with the state of the Federation/Romulan Star Empire, and the threats coming in from every angle, I don't understand why they wouldn't have a ship with Battle Cloak.
Apologies for runon sentences, I was in a hurry
I agree. In DS9, Sisko mentions that the cloaking technology was given to the federation by the Romulans. The terms for which it was given was that the cloak could ONLY be used in the Gamma quadrant.
I think its time to go back to TNG. We all remember the episode where the enterprise is sent to find d the Pegasus, a federation ship with a prototype cloaking device, that was in fact a phase cloak, allowing it to pass through matter. I think there should be 1 fed ship, and ONLY 1 fed ship, with this device, and only that ship should be able to use it. Make it a tier 3 or 4, no fleet or other advanced version, and it probably needs to be a sci vessel so it can't be op'd. And the only reason I bring it up is because it is indeed canon that, in secret, there was a federation cloaking device developed. Not in some alternate reality like the dreadnaught, but in the present timeline. However, I also think that this device should NOT give a bonus to anything when decloaking, and if it does, certainly not to damage output. Maybe damage resistance, or hardened shields.
I think its time to go back to TNG. We all remember the episode where the enterprise is sent to find d the Pegasus, a federation ship with a prototype cloaking device, that was in fact a phase cloak, allowing it to pass through matter. I think there should be 1 fed ship, and ONLY 1 fed ship, with this device, and only that ship should be able to use it. Make it a tier 3 or 4, no fleet or other advanced version, and it probably needs to be a sci vessel so it can't be op'd. And the only reason I bring it up is because it is indeed canon that, in secret, there was a federation cloaking device developed. Not in some alternate reality like the dreadnaught, but in the present timeline. However, I also think that this device should NOT give a bonus to anything when decloaking, and if it does, certainly not to damage output. Maybe damage resistance, or hardened shields.
It would be fun to use an Oberth with a phase cloak. Perhaps a "refit" or "Retrofit" .. add 1-2 weapon slots
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
It shouldn't be a romulan ability at all! Romulans get singularities, basically a bunch of free science abilities. So giving them all battle cloak merely made them more powerful than any other faction.
Sorry IMO, romulans should LOSE the battle cloak ability, and battle cloak should be given to ALL klingon ships.
And as far as ships that can fire while cloaked, there are to. The T'varo refit, and the B'Rel refit. So again romulans in the cloaking department get everything the Klingon's have and have singularity abilities to boot.
So tell me, what incentive is there to play klingon when romulans get the best of everything?
I can get with this idea. Remove BC from roms just for normal cloak, or remove singularity powers. They shouldn't have both.
I still think the Defiant, and the Defiant only should have a built in Battle Cloak. And it needs its boff stations redone. Closer to the chimera layout, or mobius layout.
Quote about STO on consoles: "Not quite as bad as No man's sky, but a close second."
I can get with this idea. Remove BC from roms just for normal cloak, or remove singularity powers. They shouldn't have both.
I still think the Defiant, and the Defiant only should have a built in Battle Cloak. And it needs its boff stations redone. Closer to the chimera layout, or mobius layout.
I think if anything all cloaks should be changed to battle cloaks.
Normal cloak is close to useless....
But I don't think ANY other fed ship should have any kind of cloak...
Comments
I know I disagree with you a lot, but this time, this time you speak the truth. :P
Starfleet had MACO.
Military Assualt Command Operations.
Sounds military to me.
You mean things like cake spoons? Or maybe trowels?
Cake trowels?
Is that a thing?
Yes actually.
I like this idea. Except I'd push the distance out to 10km and give a percentile chance on detection as the cloaked ship gets closer - 5% at 10km, 50% at 5km, 100% at 0km. Something like that anyway. And it should be a button you'd have to push since cloak works that way.
To be fair, if the forums get to deal with us KDF complain about ships, Cryptic, etc., the Feds are entitled to their quotas about:
Cloaks
AA threads
Galaxy threads
T5 Connie/Miranda Threads
It's all fair in the end :cool:
I have already said that it probably won't end up in game, but the fact of the matter is, All of the barriers to the Federation using Battle Cloaks are gone.
1. The pact with the Romulan Star Empire I would think died as soon as a halfbreed weirdo took over with an army of outsiders.
2. The Romulan Republic SHOULD trust the Federation more then the KDF, and with all the assistance they need right now, I cannot see them holding back on at least a sample of the technology that the Federation can replicate.
3. The Prime Directive does not stand in the way of this, because it is about not interfering in inferior technologically advanced species, interfere in timelines, etc. There is nothing in the Prime Directive about not using any means necessary to protect the citizens of the Federation, and basically the Alpha quadrant for that matter. The KDF can't/won't do it, and you can all get pissed as much as you want. They are so busy fighting themselves, and doing Undine ghost hunts, they wouldn't last 2 seconds against a focused incursion by a fleet of the magnitude of the Borg invasion of Vega even.
4. They already have Tactical Escorts, Battle Cruisers, and Dreadnoughts that have cloaking, why wouldn't they be able to cloak in the heat of battle?
On another note, I seriously can't see another century of a divided Alpha and Beta quadrant in the future of the Star Trek galaxy. At least the way it's been written out in an STO point of view, there is nowhere left to expand in the main areas of the big 3 powers, and they have bigger things to worry about, and also as had been said in another topic, with the speed of Transwarp(some players are reporting Transwarp 50 speeds) not only is the Delta quadrant easily within our grasps, but other galaxies are explorable now.
I hope the haters who respond to this will actually read some of this before they whip out their flaming fingers.
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
IMHO the only faction that should have battle cloaks and it should be on ALL ships, is the Klingons. Not just their BoP.
That's just my two cents.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1QRSfQ-nLs
Sums it up
That's the annoying thing about being a fed who loves his faction for what it is (and battle cloak IS canon for the billionth time), but it seems to be a taboo to have anything that's considered fun on the blue side of the fence. Damn shame.
Well I'll freely admit that I, and numerous other Starfleet captains violate this treaty every day.
My main flies an Avenger, and until I can afford a complete revamp of consoles(not to far away) I'm gonna keep using my cloaking device.
One alt I have flies a Tactical Escort Retrofit, and he uses a cloaking device.
I will stop beating this horse because I understand what people are saying about the gameplay balance(though i think it's slightly irrelavent) but my point stands that there is no reason for them to worry about violating anything anymore. Flex the muscle if the decrepit RSE cries, and the KDF.....who cares what they think right now, we are at full scale war.
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
Easy peasy!
Not even the Negh'var or Vor'cha have a Battle Cloak. Not even the Qin Raptor has a Battle Cloak.
Why should the Defiant have Battle Cloak, which might be the only one that might even be considered for the Battle Cloak? The Qin doesn't have a Battle Cloak!
You might argue that the Defiant & GalX Cloak console is badwrong, and I could be down with moving the console to an ability like the Qin or the Klingon Cruisers... but Battle Cloak? Seriously?
For the KDF to have Battle Cloak, you have to drive a BoP, which is held together by bubble gum & duct tape.
Romulans having Battle Cloak really has no place in wanting Romulan abilities on every faction.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
A war, which is going to end soon. :rolleyes:
system Lord Baal is dead
It shouldn't be a romulan ability at all! Romulans get singularities, basically a bunch of free science abilities. So giving them all battle cloak merely made them more powerful than any other faction.
Sorry IMO, romulans should LOSE the battle cloak ability, and battle cloak should be given to ALL klingon ships.
And as far as ships that can fire while cloaked, there are to. The T'varo refit, and the B'Rel refit. So again romulans in the cloaking department get everything the Klingon's have and have singularity abilities to boot.
So tell me, what incentive is there to play klingon when romulans get the best of everything?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Not to mention that Klingon BOPs pay a heavy price is ship durability and Boff stations for the privilege of battle cloak.
You mean the difference in hull strength which will be nullified shortly? Or perhaps those horrible universal boff slots or that dreadful flanking bonus.
MES is not really an alternative for cloak, battle cloak or worse enhanced battle cloak.
Significant improvements in stealth detection and a build-in camouflage (detect from 5-8 Km out. depending on size of the vessel).
It does not have to be cloak or BC/EBC, but something to level the playing field would be nice.
You should use it more then. 15% Bonus damage is huge, even if it's short. My Avenger beam boat does ridiculous damage while buffed coming out of cloak.
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
It would be fun to use an Oberth with a phase cloak. Perhaps a "refit" or "Retrofit" .. add 1-2 weapon slots
I can get with this idea. Remove BC from roms just for normal cloak, or remove singularity powers. They shouldn't have both.
I still think the Defiant, and the Defiant only should have a built in Battle Cloak. And it needs its boff stations redone. Closer to the chimera layout, or mobius layout.
I think if anything all cloaks should be changed to battle cloaks.
Normal cloak is close to useless....
But I don't think ANY other fed ship should have any kind of cloak...