What Rink said. What makes the Romulan feels distinct is that they're really, really powerful. Give the Feds all kinds of built in battle cloaks and singularity powers, superior operatives, valdore console etc for a price that can be compensated for with a leech console and you dilute that Romulan feel.
ive actually turned a corner on this issue...
i think all cloaks should just be made battle cloaks. the reasons for the distinction pretty much went out the window with the arrival of the roided up romulan faction. kdf and feds seem to pay a price for cloak that romulans do not.
This again? Really? Will you all ever learn to let this stuff go?
#1: Federation (Starfleet) cloaks are NOT canon. The only *canon* Starfleet cloaks (that can be applied to STO...) are those of the Defiant and the Galaxy X. Both Cloaks are accessible in-game via the Cloaking Device console. Both canon ships have their canon cloaks, end of canon debate.
#2: ...however, if you *want* to keep the canon debate going, lets all remember that there is a treaty in place between the Romulans and the Federation stating that the Federation cannot make use of (battle) cloaking technology.
#3: Regarding the "fairness" debate; Federation players do a fine job of handling, and often defeating, Battle Cloak equipped KDF/Romulan opponents. There is no need to give the Feds a Battle Cloak to "balance" things, as they are equipped with other toys to even it out.
#4: Battle Cloak is what largely defines the Romulan faction (as well as part of the KDF faction). If you give the Federation Battle Cloak, it'll smudge the lines between the factions and take away the fun of the differences.
BUT, on the off chance that Cryptic does give Battle Cloak to the Federation, I'd ask that the Federation also receive Elite Fleet Disruptors, Nausicaan BoFFs, Superior Romulan Operatives, account-wide unlock Plasmonic Leechs, and Singularity Cores...
I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but now I think it is only logical that Starfleet has some ships that have Battle Cloak. It seems preposterous to think, with the alliance of the Romulan Republic, and the aid the Federation is rendering, and the basic collapse of the Romulan Star Empire as a serious threat to the Federation, that they still don't, or can't have obtained a Battle Cloaking device to install into at least one modern escort design. Hell if you have to for whatever reason, make the ship require Singularity cores, but seeing as how they have Cloaks running off matter/antimatter warp cores, and the KDF have battle cloaks on BoP's using same reactor technology, I don't see where the issue comes in.
If this is about fairness, or balance, then give the Romulans a ship with regular cloak that gets some native bonus that Federation ships get(what would that be?) and give the KDF something too, but I'm just trying to state that in this era of the Star Trek galaxy, and with the state of the Federation/Romulan Star Empire, and the threats coming in from every angle, I don't understand why they wouldn't have a ship with Battle Cloak.
Apologies for runon sentences, I was in a hurry
I have to disagree. The Federation doesn't need battle cloak. Maybe if in the future if cryptic wants to make section 31 into a playable faction their ships can use stolen tech but not vanila fed ships. They're op with a good build anyway. I don't even know why their faction needs the stealth skill. Just play kdf or rom-republic if you really must have a battle cloak.
After 4 years of flying the Defiant and Galaxy X, I'd be satisfied with just having the Cloaking Device made into an actual "device."
Seriously for all ships that don't get an innate cloak.
Although a battle cloak would be pretty snazzy for those two FED ships.
Yeap, an actual device as a cloaking device for the ONLY 3 fed ships that can cloak would solve everything, but sadly cryptic wont do it since it seems they want to keep the fed ships in disavantage with a less console slot if they want to cloak.
And with the fleet consoles now its even more of inbalance since that extra slot now has allmost a value of 2 consoles (like with a fleet neutronium[+turn] you can have in 1 slot both a neut alloy and a RCS console)
The Federation Cloak is fine, it is a fun novelty item that I enjoy using and I accept the console slot cost. I would greatly appreiciate the dialogue bug being addressed for all factions.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Not that I discuss moderating, but you can just go ahead and merge it with the other one from the Fed. Shipyards since we have like 50 of these running rampant everywhere on the forum.
The Federation Cloak is fine, it is a fun novelty item that I enjoy using and I accept the console slot cost. I would greatly appreiciate the dialogue bug being addressed for all factions.
Unfortunately the dialouge bug is a map per map issue and not an across the board fix.
That the treaty preventing Starfleet from using cloaking devices is now over. However, most Starfleet vessels are not designed with cloaking devices in mind. While most Federation ships could be made to cloak, none of them are designed with cloaking in mind. The KDF designs ships to be able to cloak, and the Romulans design entire vessels around their cloaking devices, but the Federation has never considered stealth when building starships.
Because of this, it's simply not worth it to equip most classes with a cloak. They have huge power signatures that are hard to cover up, and would not be very effective at hiding. Even if you gave them cloaks, they would barely be effective against 25th century sensor technology, and would burn out after a short time.
Given that they are now at peace with the Klingons and now have Romulan allies to carry out stealth recon, Starfleet has decided not to pursue the widespread adaption of cloaking technology at this time.
There, there's your lore explaining why every ship doesn't have a cloak. Role a Romulan, ally with the Federation, and enjoy having a battlecloak on every ship. I promise you will not use it as often as you think you will.
I promise you will not use it as often as you think you will.
Truth.
Even as a Romulan, I normally cloak for my initial run and then forget about it. And then I have to remember to decloak as soon as I get into range.
Flying a B'rel retrofit on the KDF side taught me very quickly that cloaking is not an "I Win" button, and when you use it at the wrong time it's more often an "I Lose" button.
And of course, I like nothing more than a rousing game of "Marco Polo in Space", which is what combat would be like if cloaking was everything that everybody wants it to be.
Frankly, speaking as a player who has played as each faction, I don't care whether the Federation Cloak is a console, or a device, or an innate power. It doesn't matter. I don't even care about whether they're Battle Cloaks, as long as all of the KDF ships got the same treatment.
I do care that if everybody has cloaks on any ship they want, then cloaking becomes meaningless. That, and the "Marco Polo in Space" thing. Because if you can't see a target, you can't shoot it. And if you can't shoot it, you have no reason to decloak. So everybody's running around invisibly while waiting for the other guy to decloak, and there's no good reason for the other guy to do that.
Cloaking is only meaningful if somebody can't do it. Sorry, my fellow Feds... we're it. At least we have a few ships that can cloak, and at least we have access to the best stealth detection in the game as long as it's balanced right.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
gful if somebody can't do it. Sorry, my fellow Feds... we're it. At least we have a few ships that can cloak, and at least we have access to the best stealth detection in the game as long as it's balanced right.
That's the thing. If every ship had cloak, stealth detection would be so much more important.
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Even as a Romulan, I normally cloak for my initial run and then forget about it. And then I have to remember to decloak as soon as I get into range.
Flying a B'rel retrofit on the KDF side taught me very quickly that cloaking is not an "I Win" button, and when you use it at the wrong time it's more often an "I Lose" button.
And of course, I like nothing more than a rousing game of "Marco Polo in Space", which is what combat would be like if cloaking was everything that everybody wants it to be.
Frankly, speaking as a player who has played as each faction, I don't care whether the Federation Cloak is a console, or a device, or an innate power. It doesn't matter. I don't even care about whether they're Battle Cloaks, as long as all of the KDF ships got the same treatment.
I do care that if everybody has cloaks on any ship they want, then cloaking becomes meaningless. That, and the "Marco Polo in Space" thing. Because if you can't see a target, you can't shoot it. And if you can't shoot it, you have no reason to decloak. So everybody's running around invisibly while waiting for the other guy to decloak, and there's no good reason for the other guy to do that.
Cloaking is only meaningful if somebody can't do it. Sorry, my fellow Feds... we're it. At least we have a few ships that can cloak, and at least we have access to the best stealth detection in the game as long as it's balanced right.
Honestly all ships that have cloak should be battle cloak. Give rommies an innate for better cloaking that keeps them from being detected (though they already get a turn bonus while cloaked) but canon wise there is no reason a ship with a cloak cant cloak at anytime unless said cloaking device is broken or taken offline for some reason.
Having said all that I don't think its that over powering either but it is nice to have. Honestly just make it innate and take a device slot and maybe alittle hull shield points like they do with klinks ships. As far as making all ships have battle cloaks i could go either way as I don't see it being that great of an advantage as it gets you killed or atleast damaged as often as it saves you.
Frankly Faction uniqueness should be what ships we fly more then what toys they come with. Saying one faction can get something and the other two should just deal with it isn't a great way to keep balance. Also if history has taught us anything its when one group sees another with a advantage they want to take it away or copy it. Personally the balance kinda went out the window when the Romulan ships took the stage so giving 2 or 3 if you include the Avenger Fed ships innate cloaks doesnt seem unreasonable. In the end its up to the Devs what they want to do. Seeing how they remade my Dreadnaught I don't have much confidence in them anymore. Hanger we didnt want and no added tactical boff slots on a ship that suppose to be imposing (and only gets two cruiser commands) makes me question their thought processing skills.
Galaxy-X needs a cloak built-in because it is seen cloaking in the show.
Defiant needs a cloak built-in, because it is seen cloaking in the show.
Avenger needs a cloak built-in because the Mogh has one, and since the ships are identical in nearly every other way, there is no reason for the klinks to have access to a superior model, unless Cryptic wishes to drop the price of the Avenger to $20.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Galaxy-X needs a cloak built-in because it is seen cloaking in the show.
Defiant needs a cloak built-in, because it is seen cloaking in the show.
Avenger needs a cloak built-in because the Mogh has one, and since the ships are identical in nearly every other way, there is no reason for the klinks to have access to a superior model, unless Cryptic wishes to drop the price of the Avenger to $20.
If I recall correctly they have had the cloaking device build in before... when it was changed to a console they got an additonal console slot so basically if you dont use cloak you have an extra console slot wich you havent had when the cloak was built in.
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i think all cloaks should just be made battle cloaks. the reasons for the distinction pretty much went out the window with the arrival of the roided up romulan faction. kdf and feds seem to pay a price for cloak that romulans do not.
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#1: Federation (Starfleet) cloaks are NOT canon. The only *canon* Starfleet cloaks (that can be applied to STO...) are those of the Defiant and the Galaxy X. Both Cloaks are accessible in-game via the Cloaking Device console. Both canon ships have their canon cloaks, end of canon debate.
#2: ...however, if you *want* to keep the canon debate going, lets all remember that there is a treaty in place between the Romulans and the Federation stating that the Federation cannot make use of (battle) cloaking technology.
#3: Regarding the "fairness" debate; Federation players do a fine job of handling, and often defeating, Battle Cloak equipped KDF/Romulan opponents. There is no need to give the Feds a Battle Cloak to "balance" things, as they are equipped with other toys to even it out.
#4: Battle Cloak is what largely defines the Romulan faction (as well as part of the KDF faction). If you give the Federation Battle Cloak, it'll smudge the lines between the factions and take away the fun of the differences.
Right.
...for the sake of "fairness".
#sarcasm
Seriously for all ships that don't get an innate cloak.
Although a battle cloak would be pretty snazzy for those two FED ships.
I have to disagree. The Federation doesn't need battle cloak. Maybe if in the future if cryptic wants to make section 31 into a playable faction their ships can use stolen tech but not vanila fed ships. They're op with a good build anyway. I don't even know why their faction needs the stealth skill. Just play kdf or rom-republic if you really must have a battle cloak.
Yeap, an actual device as a cloaking device for the ONLY 3 fed ships that can cloak would solve everything, but sadly cryptic wont do it since it seems they want to keep the fed ships in disavantage with a less console slot if they want to cloak.
And with the fleet consoles now its even more of inbalance since that extra slot now has allmost a value of 2 consoles (like with a fleet neutronium[+turn] you can have in 1 slot both a neut alloy and a RCS console)
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Not that I discuss moderating, but you can just go ahead and merge it with the other one from the Fed. Shipyards since we have like 50 of these running rampant everywhere on the forum.
Unfortunately the dialouge bug is a map per map issue and not an across the board fix.
R.I.P
I stand corrected.
If you want an integrated Battle Cloak for your Federation ships, complete the New Romulus reputation system. :P
Because of this, it's simply not worth it to equip most classes with a cloak. They have huge power signatures that are hard to cover up, and would not be very effective at hiding. Even if you gave them cloaks, they would barely be effective against 25th century sensor technology, and would burn out after a short time.
Given that they are now at peace with the Klingons and now have Romulan allies to carry out stealth recon, Starfleet has decided not to pursue the widespread adaption of cloaking technology at this time.
There, there's your lore explaining why every ship doesn't have a cloak. Role a Romulan, ally with the Federation, and enjoy having a battlecloak on every ship. I promise you will not use it as often as you think you will.
Truth.
Even as a Romulan, I normally cloak for my initial run and then forget about it. And then I have to remember to decloak as soon as I get into range.
Flying a B'rel retrofit on the KDF side taught me very quickly that cloaking is not an "I Win" button, and when you use it at the wrong time it's more often an "I Lose" button.
And of course, I like nothing more than a rousing game of "Marco Polo in Space", which is what combat would be like if cloaking was everything that everybody wants it to be.
Frankly, speaking as a player who has played as each faction, I don't care whether the Federation Cloak is a console, or a device, or an innate power. It doesn't matter. I don't even care about whether they're Battle Cloaks, as long as all of the KDF ships got the same treatment.
I do care that if everybody has cloaks on any ship they want, then cloaking becomes meaningless. That, and the "Marco Polo in Space" thing. Because if you can't see a target, you can't shoot it. And if you can't shoot it, you have no reason to decloak. So everybody's running around invisibly while waiting for the other guy to decloak, and there's no good reason for the other guy to do that.
Cloaking is only meaningful if somebody can't do it. Sorry, my fellow Feds... we're it. At least we have a few ships that can cloak, and at least we have access to the best stealth detection in the game as long as it's balanced right.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
That's the thing. If every ship had cloak, stealth detection would be so much more important.
Honestly all ships that have cloak should be battle cloak. Give rommies an innate for better cloaking that keeps them from being detected (though they already get a turn bonus while cloaked) but canon wise there is no reason a ship with a cloak cant cloak at anytime unless said cloaking device is broken or taken offline for some reason.
Having said all that I don't think its that over powering either but it is nice to have. Honestly just make it innate and take a device slot and maybe alittle hull shield points like they do with klinks ships. As far as making all ships have battle cloaks i could go either way as I don't see it being that great of an advantage as it gets you killed or atleast damaged as often as it saves you.
Frankly Faction uniqueness should be what ships we fly more then what toys they come with. Saying one faction can get something and the other two should just deal with it isn't a great way to keep balance. Also if history has taught us anything its when one group sees another with a advantage they want to take it away or copy it. Personally the balance kinda went out the window when the Romulan ships took the stage so giving 2 or 3 if you include the Avenger Fed ships innate cloaks doesnt seem unreasonable. In the end its up to the Devs what they want to do. Seeing how they remade my Dreadnaught I don't have much confidence in them anymore. Hanger we didnt want and no added tactical boff slots on a ship that suppose to be imposing (and only gets two cruiser commands) makes me question their thought processing skills.
Galaxy-X needs a cloak built-in because it is seen cloaking in the show.
Defiant needs a cloak built-in, because it is seen cloaking in the show.
Avenger needs a cloak built-in because the Mogh has one, and since the ships are identical in nearly every other way, there is no reason for the klinks to have access to a superior model, unless Cryptic wishes to drop the price of the Avenger to $20.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
If I recall correctly they have had the cloaking device build in before... when it was changed to a console they got an additonal console slot so basically if you dont use cloak you have an extra console slot wich you havent had when the cloak was built in.
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