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Federation Cloaking device (Continued from necro'ed thread)

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  • quepanquepan Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    i think the way the federation would use Cloaking tech is in the use of "Duck Blinds" for observing alien cultures and such , federation prides itself on being EXPLORERS first , military second . while i see the federation using cloaks not in the same way as the Romulan's or Klingon's use cloaks .
    while i feel that for the game purposes that federation ships that can cloak should have there cloaks built in not a console seeing that console really cant be used outside the class that comes with cloak .
    2 be honest i feel that should be the same for all the consoles that are LOCKED to a ship class .
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Oh great.. here we go again...
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 2,624 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    sle1989 wrote: »
    How about different PvP modes instead?

    For example, have modes were no ship can cloak, or were all ships can cloak

    Or modes were shields are disabled

    Or were all players fly the same ship

    This would be in addition to normal PvP

    IMHO this is worthy of its own topic.

    Shields off --- favors certain ships too much. Sci ships for example would be in a bad way, while "cruisers" would dominate.

    All in the same ship would be a neat mode --- esp if said ships use only the default gear.

    No cloaking or all cloaking... might be interesting but you must know (or maybe you missed it) the kdf ships were penalized a little for having cloak and losing it makes them at a slight disadvantage. All cloaking really just means fed cloak again since everyone else can, but some of the specialty ships might become monsters with that.... imagine a 5 weapon andorian cloaked vaper?

    Better detection / counter to cloaking is a very valid discussion. Again, since there was a penalty for having cloak, this must come from having to install anti-cloak consoles or captain trait points or something to offset that. I would say 3 km high detection, 3-5 normal, and past 5 needs tons of detection "points" from some source.
  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Excuse me...but you are confused.

    The Federation is the Civilian Government. Starfleet is the military and they ARE a military organization. If you apply common sense to it, there is no reason Starfleet would reject Battle Cloaking.

    The United Federation of planets never had a military department.. lol. Starfleet is just the deparment oriented to exploration and where all the cadets train, to say it in easy words lol.

    The reason "Starfleet" dont use cloak its because of their directives. Thats all. They will never use something that is obviously oriented to "battle". It had been that way since i can remember, unless things changed in the post-nemesis movie.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The United Federation of planets never had a military department.. lol. Starfleet is just the deparment oriented to exploration and where all the cadets train, to say it in easy words lol.

    The reason "Starfleet" dont use cloak its because of their directives. Thats all. They will never use something that is obviously oriented to "battle". It had been that way since i can remember, unless things changed in the post-nemesis movie.

    Which doesn't exist. :3c
  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I understand where you're coming from OP. Lorewise, it makes perfect sense that these fed ships like the Gal X and the defiant would have a built in battle cloaking device. That being said, faction uniqueness and game balance must be preserved. Fed ships have better a better shield modifier and more hull than their kdf counterparts but they can't have everything. Realistically, you can't have all of those things and a battle cloak and expect the game to be balanced. Then everybody would want a battle cloak for their ships. A similar thing happened recently with Cryptic adding hangars to ships. It began with the scimitar, then the arkif, and then the gal X got a single hangar. It's a slippery slope and I'm not even throwing the battle cloaks into that discussion. The moral of the story is brainstorming up new ideas is a great idea but make sure you think about balance before proposing ship changes.
    aGHGQIKr41KNi.gif
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Your forgetting that the Federation can do whatever CBS says it can do, and CBS has retconned Star Trek so often that no one can agree what is and isn't canon.

    Memory Alpha, canon.

    Pretty straight forward really.
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Allow me to say this to you OP.

    Hell. Frakkin. No.

    Feds already have sooooooooooooooooooooo (repeat almost ad infinitum) much more stuff than the other two factions COMBINED, let's NOT give them one of the few things that keeps the other two factions separate.

    I mean cmon, the feds already got a ton of what was supposed to be KDF ONLY stuffs (ie consoles like the leech, bio-neural, ships like CARRIERS), and they also have two ships that can cloak (and only cuz they could in canon)... so... no. Just. No.

    And you said that the feds are at war with everyone... have you played recent content recently? The war between the feds and KDF might as well be over. You have Joint task force this, allied command that, neutral agreement this, peace treaty that... The entire premise of the game (IE feds and KDF at war) has been more or less eliminated. When was the last time you fought any KDF ships outside of PvP? Which recent mission has made any references to the ongoing war?

    NONE OF THEM. War? What war?
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • nakedcrooknakedcrook Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The United Federation of planets never had a military department.. lol. Starfleet is just the deparment oriented to exploration and where all the cadets train, to say it in easy words lol.

    The reason "Starfleet" dont use cloak its because of their directives. Thats all. They will never use something that is obviously oriented to "battle". It had been that way since i can remember, unless things changed in the post-nemesis movie.

    Starfleet is a military. They go to an acaddmy, learn to fight, survive, kill, and command. You can enroll or enlist in Starfleet, just like the military of today.

    The Federation military, Stafleet, had no qualms abusing the Defiant Cloak in the Dominion War...and that was when The Treaty of Algeron still existed. Remember Admiral Pressman? I bet they let him outta jail so he could work on more cloaking devices.

    What about those self replicating cloaking mines from DS9? I guess covertly blowing up ships with cloaked mines is alright if they are Ketrecel White addicts.

    What about the cloak on the Enterprise Dreadnought in All Good Things? The military had a field day killing a bunch of Klingons in that sneak attack.

    Don't forget about Admiral Janeway's cloaking shuttle. Gee...the miltary sure is flexible...
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  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    no....more....invisible....stuff
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    Ok atleast give the defiant and galaxy x an build in cloak and not an console !!!

    Mask Energy Signature. That way you save your console slot.

    ;)

    ZING!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    no....more....invisible....stuff

    I mean really. It's bad enough as it is. :D
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I mean really. It's bad enough as it is. :D

    Who said that? :eek:
  • flyingshoeboxflyingshoebox Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I Never did understand why fed didn’t have cloaks on everything. From what remember they did use it a few time when they were studding prewarp civilizations. Tech wise fed are always on top they even made a cloak that allowed them to move though solid matter. Granted it was kinda broken but it was still in testing and the tng crew manage to fix it by the end of the episode like they always do. Then tossed it into the bin of no no items and you never hear about it again.

    As for why I think the feds would use it often, it lets you have a much great ability to choose when to fight. Traditionally the federation wants to avoid fighting which is much easier to do when the guy that wants to shot you has no idea where you are. I remember those episodes of
    ds9 where they would mention how many of their buddy’s had died on some ship that had no real ability to defend itself while transporting things around during the dominion war. A Klingon or Jemhadar ship would find its way behind the lines and randomly attack what it could find. Yes there were ways to still find cloaked ships but it was a lot harder. It just seems very federation to avoid even fighting or at the least being able to run away rather than exchanging fire and that is something that a cloak excels at letting you do.

    I know there’s that treaty with the Romulans which at this point in sto I don’t think would really matter anymore for a variety of reasons. Plus you have access to not so great cloaks fed side and use it and things like it often enough that I don’t think the feds are fooling anybody about not being able or willing to use them.

    As for will we see fed side battle cloak ships probably not outside of a lock box ship. It would be fun but I can’t see it happening any time soon.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    Who said that? :eek:

    The thousands of cloaking borg torp threads. :D:D:D
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Starfleet is a military. They go to an acaddmy, learn to fight, survive, kill, and command. You can enroll or enlist in Starfleet, just like the military of today.

    The Federation military, Stafleet, had no qualms abusing the Defiant Cloak in the Dominion War...and that was when The Treaty of Algeron still existed. Remember Admiral Pressman? I bet they let him outta jail so he could work on more cloaking devices.

    What about those self replicating cloaking mines from DS9? I guess covertly blowing up ships with cloaked mines is alright if they are Ketrecel White addicts.

    What about the cloak on the Enterprise Dreadnought in All Good Things? The military had a field day killing a bunch of Klingons in that sneak attack.

    Don't forget about Admiral Janeway's cloaking shuttle. Gee...the miltary sure is flexible...

    Technically Starfleet is a military, but it does all it can to prevent conflict, and continue exploration and diplomatic missions.

    They learn how to fight, kill, etc as part of their training so officers can better defend the Federation, its member worlds, and trillions of people.

    You do raise a good point regarding the Defiant's cloak in the war. I can accept that the Defiant would still be able to use it when the Romulans are allied with the Federation, but in the early days of the war, that wasn't the case. To my knowledge, the writers didn't address this point. As for Pressman, that is pure speculation with no supporting evidence.

    The self replicating mines were used as a deterrent to war, in the hopes that the Dominion would stop shipping supplies and weapons to Cardassia Prime. Starfleet was hoping that deploying the mines would stop Cardassia's strength-building directive, and force them to reconsider starting a war. (Unfortunately it had the opposite effect)

    AGT isn't in the prime universe, and was made up by Q.

    The Endgame alternate universe is also not in the prime universe, and since when could Janeway's shuttle cloak? It was explained to be some kind of technology, like Mask Energy Signature. Not an actual cloaking device. Besides, one shuttle with a distortion field isn't going to change a war.
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  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The thousands of cloaking borg torp threads. :D:D:D

    Ensign!

    Yes Captain?

    Set all the replicators to make flour, transport it all to the shuttle bay and then open the doors.........we'll catch them ninja torpedoes....
  • zeuslegion1zeuslegion1 Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The number one reason that the UFP did not implement cloaking tech (and we know they wanted it as far back as Kirk cuz he tried to steal one and we know they were working on phased cloaking ala Riker's Pegasus) is because they had treaties with the Roms and Klinks that forbade them to.

    Well, they're at war with the Klinks and the old Roms are gone. All bets should be off and both Starfleet and Section 31 should and would be pursuing the technology to even the odds. So yes, storywise, the Feds ought to have cloaking by now.

    Gamewise, however, it ain't gonna happen except maybe on a couple ships here and there (ala the Defiant). Maybe, if enough people point out that not having it is ridiculous given the circumstances of the story, they'll come up with some new story reason the Feds won't/can't seriously pursue it, but they will never, ever let the Feds have cloaks across the board.
  • potencethe1stpotencethe1st Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Feds don't need cloak.

    Feds AND Kdf need buffs to compensate for the grossly negligent over buffing of the romulans.

    Sing powers for lower power levels.

    Battle cloaking for? More crit and severity passively through traits than one could get first year of the game?
    ****s broken.

    The Dyson destroyer is a perfect example of the imbalance.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited April 2014

    Well, they're at war with the Klinks and the old Roms are gone. All bets should be off and both Starfleet and Section 31 should and would be pursuing the technology to even the odds. So yes, storywise, the Feds ought to have cloaking by now.


    The Rom treaty continues with both the remaining RSE and the Republic, so no Fed cloaks except the one USS Defiant of DS9 fame. (And technically, Admiral Riker's Galaxy-X as per TNG: "All Good Things")
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Feds AND Kdf need buffs to compensate for the grossly negligent over buffing of the romulans.

    This is Cryptic, forget about buffs. The problem will be solved with nerfs, like anything Cryptic tries to solve. (See "Reputation Power changes in Season 9" for examples.)
  • potencethe1stpotencethe1st Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    This is Cryptic, forget about buffs. The problem will be solved with nerfs, like anything Cryptic tries to solve. (See "Reputation Power changes in Season 9" for examples.)

    Well you exposed my ruse. We all know they can't buff anymore, and that nerf is all that can happen; I just didn't wanna be a nerf herder any more and would prefer for those conclusions to made indirectly using logic.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    OMG why do you people respond to these threads, they never go anywhere, so why bother just let it fade off into the abyss.

    No one has anything new to say on either the pros and cons of why the Feds should or shouldn't have battle Cloak....just ignore it and move on.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    OMG why do you people respond to these threads, they never go anywhere, so why bother just let it fade off into the abyss.

    No one has anything new to say on either the pros and cons of why the Feds should or shouldn't have battle Cloak....just ignore it and move on.

    Follow your own advice...rofl
    aGHGQIKr41KNi.gif
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Not even 'gonna read any replies, because there probably all the same as ...

    NOPE ... No ... Negative ... NNNnnnooooo!
    Oh, hoho hohhhhh, Oh,, hoho, hohhhhh
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  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The number one reason that the UFP did not implement cloaking tech (and we know they wanted it as far back as Kirk cuz he tried to steal one and we know they were working on phased cloaking ala Riker's Pegasus) is because they had treaties with the Roms and Klinks that forbade them to.

    .

    No. They dont use cloak because they have rules that implies the prohibition to use tech like cloaking devices ( besides i remember it from a TNG episode, where Picard explains it). It has nothing to do with the romulans or klingons. Federation could use cloak if they wanted to, and the only exception is the Defiant. And thats the only case and it was discarded after the Dominion war
  • tyranthraxisiityranthraxisii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The United Federation of planets never had a military department.. lol. Starfleet is just the deparment oriented to exploration and where all the cadets train, to say it in easy words lol.

    The reason "Starfleet" dont use cloak its because of their directives. Thats all. They will never use something that is obviously oriented to "battle". It had been that way since i can remember, unless things changed in the post-nemesis movie.

    If that case were true, there wouldn't be a Tactical field, or Tactical officers in starfleet, try again.

    Yall can argue canon all day, and also mention the Fed/Romulan pact, but my initial point was just to point out the reality that is Starfleet in the 25th century.

    And saying who are we at war with? that's ignorant. Since I started playing this game, we have been at war with the True Way, The Terran Empire several times, The Klingon Empire, The Undine, The Voth, The Romulan Star Empire/Tal Shiar. We are at war in almost every mission, and every STF in this game. You may go ahead an continue thinking I'm drunk, or delusional now, that's fine.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TREQGl54BU8&feature=endscreen
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  • tyranthraxisiityranthraxisii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Picard has always been full of TRIBBLE. He's a tool that spits Feddie propaganda whenever his masters give him a cookie.

    Feddie rules and directives are a smokescreen to be followed or discarded depending on what serves Feddie interests best.

    EXACTLY! I LOVE Jean Luc Picard as a captain, and a character, but(and I can blame the writers)He would have 1 episode/movie where he spouted the prime directive, and countered proposals(mostly from Worf), and then the next episode/movie, he would travel back in time, and stop something from happening(or not happening).

    I get that it probably wouldn't/shouldn't make it into the game as it is, and I can accept it, but the points have been made by others as well on here. The Romulan Star Empire doesn't exist in the capacity that the Federation signed a pact with. The KDF are at war with the Federation, and commiting atrocities against it(or trying to, The Doomsday Device anyone? Don't tell me that some of the High Council didn't know it was going on, and were willing to look the other way.)

    If the threats posed by the Borg(they sent a mass invasion fleet right into the heart of the federation, among other things) the Undine(They were impersonating people all over the Federation, and still are by all appearances), The Terran Empire(Mirror Invasion), etc., are as dire as we are led to believe, then the Federation has a choice to make......

    1. follow the prime directive no matter what, and fade off as they are conquered by the more powerful enemies....
    2. -citing Captain Shon of the then U.S.S. Belfast "Starfleet is developing new weapons and technology to combat the borg, We will be ready"
    Starfleet, and Earth in particular can get off their high horse, and start taking responsibility for the people under their protection.

    1 last point I would like to make. Cloaking devices can be used in a peaceful manner. If I am travelling through space that the Klingon(example) Defense Force has ships in, all I have to do is engage cloak and pass on by, instead of blowing up every single enemy we come across.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TREQGl54BU8&feature=endscreen
    I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.:confused:
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    The Rom treaty continues with both the remaining RSE and the Republic, so no Fed cloaks except the one USS Defiant of DS9 fame. (And technically, Admiral Riker's Galaxy-X as per TNG: "All Good Things")


    We do not know that for 100% certainty.


    The Federation President made that little proclamation long before the fall of Hakeev and disappearance of the Empress. It was nothing more than a political move to placate the Romulan and Klingon Empires after the Kelso Incident. The Treaty of Algeron, at this point, is worth the paper it's printed on. The Empire is a rotting carcass. The Republic is the new face of the Romulan people. D'Tan doesn't seem to consider Federation cloaking technology to be high on his list of diplomatic priorities. He has other issues that are more pressing.


    At this point, the UFP is still officially in a state of war with the Klingon Empire, and have been for years now. The Federation cloaking cat is out of the bag. It's pointless for the High Council to raise hell about it now. And I suspect that the Federation and Starfleet wouldn't give a s**t if they did, anyway.



    The fact of the matter, is that when Okeg made that public statement in 2395, the Federation had one (maybe two) cloak capable vessels in service (the Defiant Class and possibly the Vigilant Class). In 2409, counting each class separately, Starfleet has seven cloak capable starship classes. The Gallant and Galaxy-X came online in 2399, when the Khitomer Accords went kaput. In the years since, Starfleet commissioned the Sao Paulo, Venture-X, and (more recently) the Avenger Class.



    So, there is no excuse, from a story POV for the Federation not to further develop cloaking technology. Especially with the huge threats presented by the Undine, Borg, and Iconians. And who's to say that the Federation doesn't already have battle cloaks, and it's all hush-hush for now?



    As for the game itself, I support "standard" cloaks being innate to cloak capable Federation ships, rather than a console that takes up space. Battle cloaks or not.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but now I think it is only logical that Starfleet has some ships that have Battle Cloak. It seems preposterous to think, with the alliance of the Romulan Republic, and the aid the Federation is rendering, and the basic collapse of the Romulan Star Empire as a serious threat to the Federation, that they still don't, or can't have obtained a Battle Cloaking device to install into at least one modern escort design. Hell if you have to for whatever reason, make the ship require Singularity cores, but seeing as how they have Cloaks running off matter/antimatter warp cores, and the KDF have battle cloaks on BoP's using same reactor technology, I don't see where the issue comes in.

    If this is about fairness, or balance, then give the Romulans a ship with regular cloak that gets some native bonus that Federation ships get(what would that be?) and give the KDF something too, but I'm just trying to state that in this era of the Star Trek galaxy, and with the state of the Federation/Romulan Star Empire, and the threats coming in from every angle, I don't understand why they wouldn't have a ship with Battle Cloak.

    Apologies for runon sentences, I was in a hurry

    To be honest, Starfleet had access to Cloak technology since TOS. They just don't use it publicly. It's probably in Section 31 archives or classifield files.
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