I take it the dead horse twitched and thats why this subject popped up again?
Funny how these threads always start out the same and end up as a "mary sue" attempt to buff the already powerful Defiant class escort.
The Defiant can get a BC and Boff change when the Raptor gets the same plus a turn rate buff, as well as BoPs getting their Hull and shields buffed plus a third rear weapon slot and a Ensign Uslot.
Otherwise there is no need to give a BC to the feds that takes away from the Roms and leaves the KDF still under its old handicaps for having BCs.
I take it the dead horse twitched and thats why this subject popped up again?
Funny how these threads always start out the same and end up as a "mary sue" attempt to buff the already powerful Defiant class escort.
The Defiant can get a BC and Boff change when the Raptor gets the same plus a turn rate buff, as well as BoPs getting their Hull and shields buffed plus a third rear weapon slot and a Ensign Uslot.
Otherwise there is no need to give a BC to the feds that takes away from the Roms and leaves the KDF still under its old handicaps for having BCs.
The boff layout of the defiant makes it useless, 3 tac boffs ughh.
I think the B'rel needs a 4 tac console version, full boff layout, and a hull increase. Like the T'varo. If not, make the tvaro exactly like the B'rel.
Quote about STO on consoles: "Not quite as bad as No man's sky, but a close second."
We are playing a STAR TREK game. Lore = FED = no cloak (except on Defiant)
If you need a cloak so badly, why don't you create a Romulan (for trait) or a green aligned Alien, allign him with the FED and call it a day? You will never, ever have to step into the NR Command, you can use everything FED, play with your friends and HAVE A CLOAK on every ship. (with the energy loss, the mostly useless warpcore abilities, aso..)
The boff layout of the defiant makes it useless, 3 tac boffs ughh.
I think the B'rel needs a 4 tac console version, full boff layout, and a hull increase. Like the T'varo. If not, make the tvaro exactly like the B'rel.
B'Rel needs a revamp. Its one of the most interesting ships in the game, but sadly, now with T'Varo here, there is no more use for it. Even with all Embassy BOFFs, the dmg output is not comparable.
The Defiant layout is hardly useless, especially now that Team powers do not have a GCD.
Having a Comtac, LTCtac and Ensigntac gives it great versatility for damage while having limited Eng and Sci slots keeps it balanced. Especially the 5 tac console fleet version.
The B'rel is an excellent BoP the way it is.
I see no need to give the already powerful Defiant more power by having a BC.
We are playing a STAR TREK game. Lore = FED = no cloak (except on Defiant)
If you need a cloak so badly, why don't you create a Romulan (for trait) or a green aligned Alien, allign him with the FED and call it a day? You will never, ever have to step into the NR Command, you can use everything FED, play with your friends and HAVE A CLOAK on every ship.
Dude, think we all can agree that the defiant should get a built in BC. No other fed ships, just the Defiant.
And your lore about FED = no cloak is incorrect. They just try not to get caught, and don't forget section 31 too :P
Quote about STO on consoles: "Not quite as bad as No man's sky, but a close second."
The Defiant layout is hardly useless, especially now that Team powers do not have a GCD.
Having a Comtac, LTCtac and Ensigntac gives it great versatility for damage while having limited Eng and Sci slots keeps it balanced. Especially the 5 tac console fleet version.
The B'rel is an excellent BoP the way it is.
I see no need to give the already powerful Defiant more power by having a BC.
There are escorts without that TRIBBLE 3 tac boff layout which are more powerful than the defiant. 5 tac slots is a bit useless, as most people use 4 tac consoles and throw a universal on the 5th.
I find you get diminished returns running 5 tac consoles, the only plus is the crith or critd consoles, but damage wise the 5th makes no difference.
Quote about STO on consoles: "Not quite as bad as No man's sky, but a close second."
Compared to other escorts in a non decloak alpha? Yes, it's weaker. The Fleet Patrol Escort is a better ship.
LOL, you're saying the Defiant is inferior in even a non-decloak alpha strike? LOLOLOLOL!!!
You are doing something terribly, terribly, terribly wrong if you have that issue with the Defiant. The Defiant is as stacked as you can get with an Escort for firepower, tac ability, tac consoles (4 for Retrofit, 5 for Fleet). It has as much TAC BOFF seating you need to cram whatever you can into the ship. In terms of Escorts, only the Andorian Escort can mount more forward firepower than the Defiant, but it does not have the luxury of a cloak.
A Fleet Defiant doing an alpha strike, most esp. if using a decloaking alpha strike, is about as punishing as anything else in the game. Few ships can match or exceed the Defiant's attack or decloaking strikes (hint: Overpowered Warbirds).
The FPE is more survivable than the Fleet Defiant. But it will never have the tactical advantage of cloaks, the luxury of initiating contact on your terms due to cloaks, and it does not have the 5 TAC Consoles of the Defiant. That's the price the more rounded Escorts pay. They will do well, no doubt, but in sheer firepower for Fed ships, nothing is the same as the Fleet Defiant. Only the Andorian Escorts can challenge that. Not even the 5 TAC Console Fleet MVAE has the same level of sheer firepower.
Just about the only thing that can exceed the Fleet Defiant is the Bugship itself. With the spire tac consoles now in the game there are literally no excuses for being terrible with it.
The Qin Raptor doesn't have a Battle Cloak & there is no Fleet Raptor with 5 tac consoles.
Whee! *going around and around in circles*
Edit: Also, the B'rel & the Hegh'ta & Fleet Norgh have 3 Tac consoles.
The Fleet T'varo might have 4 Tac consoles, and the Fleet Ar'kif might have 5, but Roms R OP & whatever.
The alliance with the Romulan Republic has absolutely nothing to do with the Federation not being able to develop cloaking technology. It is the renewed treaty with the Romulan Star Empire that prevents Federation from developing cloaking technology. In the Path to 2409 accolades, it states that the Federation got caught using cloaking technology and had to renew their pledge of no cloaking technology to repair the damage to Romulan and Klingon relations. Numerous Starfleet personnel got fired due to this mess.
¿? And again. Starfleet never used cloak. And never will. Because they cant. Their directives forbid it. It has nothing to do with any trety. Stop inventing things lol. In TNG it was said A LOT of times, Starfleet never used cloak cuz that will violate some rules or watever i cant remember. It has nothing to do with romulans, klingons, treatys or watever. Now, if you tell me that after the genuine saga, when STO came to life things changed, of course, maybe. But that is not enough reason to give stafleet a battle cloak. Not by far.
Its like saying a policeman is corrupt and they can steal, kill and watever. Of course they can, but they are police officers, they are not supossed to.
It has a Standard Cloak true to lore and Canon.............so no.
And here we go , now its no longer about Battle Cloak , we should give the Defiant a beast in its own a Advanced Cloak making it superior to the Scimitar ........
While we are at it lets give the Defiant a ultra powerful attack that it can do in this Advanced Battle Cloak ...............yeah yeah
for me if it not in form of film it doesn't exist for me sorry
B'Rel needs a revamp. Its one of the most interesting ships in the game, but sadly, now with T'Varo here, there is no more use for it. Even with all Embassy BOFFs, the dmg output is not comparable.
I really like the T'varo as a Tac bomber, but the B'rel can still do things that the T'varo can't. To me, the B'rel is the most fun ship in the game, even if it blows up fast & the power creep has gone way beyond the B'rel. There's really no comparison between the T'varo and B'rel there unless you're forcing a pure Tac layout on the B'rel, which is where the T'varo will always beat the B'rel.
The T'varo comes with a Commander Tac & Ensign Tac. There is also the 2 Lieutenant slots for Eng & Sci, plus the Lt.Com Universal.
The T'varo's Ensign Tac (not a Lieutenant), combined with the Lt.Com Universal (i.e. not the Sci slot) means you are really forced to cut down your swing to either go more Tac (so your only Sci is a Lieutenant) or get the Grav Well 1 (so your backup Tac is Ensign). IMO, neither choice is that great.
In any case, I can pile more of what I want on a B'rel, whereas the T'varo seems more of a gimmick ship compared to real warbirds like the Valdore/Mogai or Ar'kif.
(Whether or not the Mogai or Ar'kif (or even the Ha'feh) is OP compared to the Defiant is another discussion, but I don't see why the Defiant should be handed something that even the Qin can't get... and the awkward-turning Qin is definitely inferior to the Defiant, even with the Defiant's cloak console.)
¿? And again. Starfleet never used cloak. And never will. Because they cant. Their directives forbid it. It has nothing to do with any trety. Stop inventing things lol. In TNG it was said A LOT of times, Starfleet never used cloak cuz that will violate some rules or watever i cant remember. It has nothing to do with romulans, klingons, treatys or watever. Now, if you tell me that after the genuine saga, when STO came to life things changed, of course, maybe. But that is not enough reason to give stafleet a battle cloak. Not by far.
Its like saying a policeman is corrupt and they can steal, kill and watever. Of course they can, but they are police officers, they are not supossed to.
There was the incident with the Phased Cloak with the Pegasus and the incident in the Path to 2409 for Star Trek Online which are both incidents where certain groups of Starfleet Officers created cloaking technology against the treaties that the Federation has signed. From the Path to 2409 Volume 16 Chapter 1 and 2,
Tragedy struck for Starfleet on Stardate 72487.91, when the U.S.S. Kelso was lost with all hands.
The Kelso was supposed to be on a routine mission to study the long-term effects of the Hobus supernova on star systems in the Devron Sector when it was destroyed. Initial reports indicated that the Kelso could have come under attack. However, when the remains of the vessel were recovered by the U.S.S. April, it was found that a coolant leak caused by an experimental cloaking device onboard the Kelso caused plasma to vent from the ship. The plasma reacted with ionizing radiation present in the area, causing the explosion which destroyed the Kelso.
After careful consideration, Captain Barax Wenn of the April revealed the cause of the Kelso's destruction to the captains of the Romulan ships assisting in the search for the vessel. In response, Praetor Taris lodged an immediate complaint with the Federation Council, and, as a "gesture of good faith," informed the Klingon Empire of the details of the Kelso's destruction as well.
Starfleet Security admitted that the U.S.S. Kelso was testing a Federation cloaking device. The Romulans then ejected all Federation diplomats and ships from their space in protest, and Chancellor J'mpok recalled the Klingon ambassador to the Federation back to Qo'noS for "strategic discussions." 5
After the revelation that Starfleet was testing a cloaking device, tensions between the Federation, Romulans and Klingons were at their highest point since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in 2387. After a full inquiry, six members of Starfleet Security were court-martialed.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
This is official STO canon so I didn't make anything up.
I think it's time for the "Standard Cloak" to just go away. It's ridiculous that Klingon Battlecruisers can't do what, say, the Ha'nom of all ships can do.
And yes, that means the Fed "cloak console" gets an upgrade, too. Let's level the playing field a little.
There was the incident with the Phased Cloak with the Pegasus and the incident in the Path to 2409 for Star Trek Online which are both incidents where certain groups of Starfleet Officers created cloaking technology against the treaties that the Federation has signed. From the Path to 2409 Volume 16 Chapter 1 and 2,
This is official STO canon so I didn't make anything up.
In fact, was that episode i was talking about. In that episode, Picard (i think it was Picard or maybe Riker) told the reasons Starfleet dont use cloaks.
And again, Federation can use cloak, they just wont. To be able to use it , doesnt mean they are going to.
The cloak (romulan cloaking device) for the defiant is pointless you have to lose a consol slot and its not even a battlecloak.
Don't see why you would even use it.
Officers breaking the Rules are not a good arguement for the Federation to have Cloaking and a again look at all what Federation already gets . Federation in a Whole agreed to not use Cloaking past the agreed Defiant .
Battle Cloak never has been used by Federation period .
I think they have enough .
Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I said. If anything that is evidence against the Federation having cloaks which is what I support.
The cloak (romulan cloaking device) for the defiant is pointless you have to lose a consol slot and its not even a battlecloak.
Don't see why you would even use it.
Comments
Funny how these threads always start out the same and end up as a "mary sue" attempt to buff the already powerful Defiant class escort.
The Defiant can get a BC and Boff change when the Raptor gets the same plus a turn rate buff, as well as BoPs getting their Hull and shields buffed plus a third rear weapon slot and a Ensign Uslot.
Otherwise there is no need to give a BC to the feds that takes away from the Roms and leaves the KDF still under its old handicaps for having BCs.
R.I.P
The boff layout of the defiant makes it useless, 3 tac boffs ughh.
I think the B'rel needs a 4 tac console version, full boff layout, and a hull increase. Like the T'varo. If not, make the tvaro exactly like the B'rel.
We are playing a STAR TREK game. Lore = FED = no cloak (except on Defiant)
If you need a cloak so badly, why don't you create a Romulan (for trait) or a green aligned Alien, allign him with the FED and call it a day? You will never, ever have to step into the NR Command, you can use everything FED, play with your friends and HAVE A CLOAK on every ship. (with the energy loss, the mostly useless warpcore abilities, aso..)
B'Rel needs a revamp. Its one of the most interesting ships in the game, but sadly, now with T'Varo here, there is no more use for it. Even with all Embassy BOFFs, the dmg output is not comparable.
Having a Comtac, LTCtac and Ensigntac gives it great versatility for damage while having limited Eng and Sci slots keeps it balanced. Especially the 5 tac console fleet version.
The B'rel is an excellent BoP the way it is.
I see no need to give the already powerful Defiant more power by having a BC.
R.I.P
Dude, think we all can agree that the defiant should get a built in BC. No other fed ships, just the Defiant.
And your lore about FED = no cloak is incorrect. They just try not to get caught, and don't forget section 31 too :P
There are escorts without that TRIBBLE 3 tac boff layout which are more powerful than the defiant. 5 tac slots is a bit useless, as most people use 4 tac consoles and throw a universal on the 5th.
I find you get diminished returns running 5 tac consoles, the only plus is the crith or critd consoles, but damage wise the 5th makes no difference.
I refuse to even touch the "TRIBBLE" comment but it you find the alpha strike of a Defiant weak then you are doing something wrong.
R.I.P
Compared to other escorts in a non decloak alpha? Yes, it's weaker. The Fleet Patrol Escort is a better ship.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
LOL, you're saying the Defiant is inferior in even a non-decloak alpha strike? LOLOLOLOL!!!
You are doing something terribly, terribly, terribly wrong if you have that issue with the Defiant. The Defiant is as stacked as you can get with an Escort for firepower, tac ability, tac consoles (4 for Retrofit, 5 for Fleet). It has as much TAC BOFF seating you need to cram whatever you can into the ship. In terms of Escorts, only the Andorian Escort can mount more forward firepower than the Defiant, but it does not have the luxury of a cloak.
A Fleet Defiant doing an alpha strike, most esp. if using a decloaking alpha strike, is about as punishing as anything else in the game. Few ships can match or exceed the Defiant's attack or decloaking strikes (hint: Overpowered Warbirds).
The FPE is more survivable than the Fleet Defiant. But it will never have the tactical advantage of cloaks, the luxury of initiating contact on your terms due to cloaks, and it does not have the 5 TAC Consoles of the Defiant. That's the price the more rounded Escorts pay. They will do well, no doubt, but in sheer firepower for Fed ships, nothing is the same as the Fleet Defiant. Only the Andorian Escorts can challenge that. Not even the 5 TAC Console Fleet MVAE has the same level of sheer firepower.
Whee! *going around and around in circles*
Edit: Also, the B'rel & the Hegh'ta & Fleet Norgh have 3 Tac consoles.
The Fleet T'varo might have 4 Tac consoles, and the Fleet Ar'kif might have 5, but Roms R OP & whatever.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
¿? And again. Starfleet never used cloak. And never will. Because they cant. Their directives forbid it. It has nothing to do with any trety. Stop inventing things lol. In TNG it was said A LOT of times, Starfleet never used cloak cuz that will violate some rules or watever i cant remember. It has nothing to do with romulans, klingons, treatys or watever. Now, if you tell me that after the genuine saga, when STO came to life things changed, of course, maybe. But that is not enough reason to give stafleet a battle cloak. Not by far.
Its like saying a policeman is corrupt and they can steal, kill and watever. Of course they can, but they are police officers, they are not supossed to.
for me if it not in form of film it doesn't exist for me sorry
So Q, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise don't exist?
I really like the T'varo as a Tac bomber, but the B'rel can still do things that the T'varo can't. To me, the B'rel is the most fun ship in the game, even if it blows up fast & the power creep has gone way beyond the B'rel. There's really no comparison between the T'varo and B'rel there unless you're forcing a pure Tac layout on the B'rel, which is where the T'varo will always beat the B'rel.
The T'varo comes with a Commander Tac & Ensign Tac. There is also the 2 Lieutenant slots for Eng & Sci, plus the Lt.Com Universal.
The T'varo's Ensign Tac (not a Lieutenant), combined with the Lt.Com Universal (i.e. not the Sci slot) means you are really forced to cut down your swing to either go more Tac (so your only Sci is a Lieutenant) or get the Grav Well 1 (so your backup Tac is Ensign). IMO, neither choice is that great.
In any case, I can pile more of what I want on a B'rel, whereas the T'varo seems more of a gimmick ship compared to real warbirds like the Valdore/Mogai or Ar'kif.
(Whether or not the Mogai or Ar'kif (or even the Ha'feh) is OP compared to the Defiant is another discussion, but I don't see why the Defiant should be handed something that even the Qin can't get... and the awkward-turning Qin is definitely inferior to the Defiant, even with the Defiant's cloak console.)
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
There was the incident with the Phased Cloak with the Pegasus and the incident in the Path to 2409 for Star Trek Online which are both incidents where certain groups of Starfleet Officers created cloaking technology against the treaties that the Federation has signed. From the Path to 2409 Volume 16 Chapter 1 and 2,
This is official STO canon so I didn't make anything up.
And yes, that means the Fed "cloak console" gets an upgrade, too. Let's level the playing field a little.
In fact, was that episode i was talking about. In that episode, Picard (i think it was Picard or maybe Riker) told the reasons Starfleet dont use cloaks.
And again, Federation can use cloak, they just wont. To be able to use it , doesnt mean they are going to.
Don't see why you would even use it.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I said. If anything that is evidence against the Federation having cloaks which is what I support.