The "1 week or 25 matches" limit for data is there to allow players to transition between builds without eternally getting balanced according to ancient setups. If a balancing system were implemented by Cryptic, they could simply collect player data per ship (or per loadout) and then feed that into the algorithm. I don't have viable means to detect when a player changes ships, so I don't think that this can be done in my leaderboard.
Oh, wasn't asking that you do it specifically - a case of bouncing around too many threads while playing and rushing things. Was more a case of your thoughts on that aspect. And yeah, it was more of a folks trying to game the system - but can't see somebody going through that much effort just to game a PUG queue like that. Hopefully somebody at Cryptic takes a look. Hrmm, wouldn't be the normal guys or anything would it...that would actually fall to one of the programmers, eh? Hrmm, maybe somebody will take a look at it...hopefully.
I think accounting for ship changes should ba fairly simple if one has acess to the data. If there is sufficient data for the ship (> x matches for some x; maybe 5?), take that data, otherwise use the average for the character over all ships. If even that leaves too little data, take a default value (say the average over the entire population, or maybe 75% of that or something).
If players then truly create new characters all the time so that they can play a maximum of like 5 matches where they are being balanced with too low a score before the proper balancing kicks in... well, I don't think that this is a serious problem that one needs to account for.
I think accounting for ship changes should ba fairly simple if one has acess to the data. If there is sufficient data for the ship (> x matches for some x; maybe 5?), take that data, otherwise use the average for the character over all ships. If even that leaves too little data, take a default value (say the average over the entire population, or maybe 75% of that or something).
If players then truly create new characters all the time so that they can play a maximum of like 5 matches where they are being balanced with too low a score before the proper balancing kicks in... well, I don't think that this is a serious problem that one needs to account for.
Wasn't really thinking about them rerolling as much as possible respec/ship change (not with them trying to game anything, just a natural possible change).
Say you had a Sci that had been flying a Temporal Sci and generated X numbers. They do a respec and start flying a Recluse, because they wanted to do something new. Somewhere down the road, they decide to respec again and hop in a DSD. Somewhere further down the road, they decide to hop in a Cruiser. All their data might show them doing X, when they're no longer doing X. So they'd be placed differently.
And no, it wouldn't likely be even a minor concern...but it would play into the new guy without any rating and how they'd be placed, eh? Something to be figured into the ship change guy...that new player default number for a potential build modifying any existing history they had.
The queues need to allow cross faction teaming in the teamed queues so we can still team with our fleet if we are on another faction character.
Yep, this needs to keep being brought up...Mini's thread got merged with this one, but it should be brought up here and the notes thread...over and over, not to the point of spamming - but to the point that they get it.
Yep, this needs to keep being brought up...Mini's thread got merged with this one, but it should be brought up here and the notes thread...over and over, not to the point of spamming - but to the point that they get it.
I asked about the KDF/Fed teaming issue in one of the first replies to the tribble patch notes thread. Hopefully they saw it.
The only thing that would make me never go back to PvP again and never touch it with a 10ft. pole, and they did it.
Nice work, Cryptic, I can always count on you.
The only thing that would make me never go back to PvP again and never touch it with a 10ft. pole, and they did it.
Nice work, Cryptic, I can always count on you.
realy ?? , if u want RP just do private man , we dont care of what u do in private ! lol
Making it possible for casual players to play without getting rolled my a 5 man rolftstomp premade isn't "dumbing down to the lowest common denominator". Any five man team that joins the queues is a premade. It is a prebuilt team assembled before the match begins. You can call it a "fleetmade" or whatever you'd like, but the concept remains. Many of us want to play matches against five RANDOM people, not five people from the same fleet that have logged hundreds of hours working together. There is no competition when five random people run into five people that have logged as many hours as some of the PvP fleets. I've always considered taking a five man team into the public queues to be equivalent of stacking the deck while playing a card game. We shouldn't be forced to join a PvP fleet just to have fun in PvP. With this new queue it is quite apparent that the devs agree with us; rather than the egotistical PvP fleet players that wish to continue queue stomping.
I can follow what you are saying but I have to ask you why these teams, team up? This style queuing system is never going to work until penalties are installed to being afk, leaving, and not respawning. Fleets and friends team up not to pug stop but to have a good time with friends and not run into the players that log or die once and go afk. Some simple mechanics like a kick from match option and a claim victory button for those matches where people leave.
Kick from match should be for a player not respawning initiated from his team mates. This should kick the player from the match and give him a hour queuing penalty. To make the match fair a random person would be removed from the other team and given rewards for a victory.
Claim victory should allow a team to claim victory when the teams are upside down by people either leavening a match or logging out and leaving a team in the match by themselves. To go along with this is a hour long cooldown for anyone that leaves a match and anyone using (Attack Pattern Talon Jones) logging out. When people log the game should have a logout script run and this should determine the penalty.
The problem never was premades. Premades got together to prevent stuff like this from happening on there team. And as far as pug stomping there is not a group out there that wants to stomp pugs just for the hell of it. I enjoy the matches more if I loose in a close match and winning a land slide. Most premades would agree with that.
A lot of people who like pugstomping in premades seem to be crying about having to face other premades in here. The community has been calling for this for ages, I for one am glad I can casually hop into an arena without getting roflstomped by a premade.
And as far as pug stomping there is not a group out there that wants to stomp pugs just for the hell of it. I enjoy the matches more if I loose in a close match and winning a land slide. Most premades would agree with that.
Absolute rubbish. All these arguments are invalidated by the fact there is still going to be a queue you can take your premade into. The only difference is with said queue is that you will end up fighting other premades. If this isn't a problem, why is there all the complaining about a pug only queue?
Oh thats it, most premades are afraid to lose, so they don't want to fight other premades.
1) why remove the old queues Fed vs Kdf? can't we have them and the new "general queues"?
2) why still 5 vs 5? can we have a bigger match (ex 10 vs 10)?
However I also think devs should promote someway pvp (dayly missions are not enough): some better reward for winner or best 3 match's player... reward can be, marks, items, little buffs, help for base/holdings building or a sort of "personal provvision"/discount for buying fleet items (ex shields, console, weapons, assets...), one or more permanent rankings (one based on kills, one on won matchs, one on damage dealed... separated rankings for premades and pugs..)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Why remove the old queues Fed vs Kdf? can't we have them and the new "general queues"?
It was already dead... do you really think anyone would bother with it after this change ?
You would sit in the que by yourself for days. Might as well remove it right.
I think they are also planning to end the Federation Klingon war... which was always stupid. It was the sort of writing you would read in a Trek fiction book that was so bad you would have to triple check if it was approved by CBS. lol
Absolute rubbish. All these arguments are invalidated by the fact there is still going to be a queue you can take your premade into. The only difference is with said queue is that you will end up fighting other premades. If this isn't a problem, why is there all the complaining about a pug only queue?
Oh thats it, most premades are afraid to lose, so they don't want to fight other premades.
This. Some people seem really desperate to win at all costs (and afterwards often go on an brag about their 'skill') and now complain that there will be a good chance with the current changes that they face an equal team. :rolleyes:
It was already dead... do you really think anyone would bother with it after this change ?
yes and no...
It's possible you are right, but I do not see any cost in having both the queues and I do not think to be the only one who like the idea of a "fed vs kdf" war.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
A lot of people who like pugstomping in premades seem to be crying about having to face other premades in here. The community has been calling for this for ages, I for one am glad I can casually hop into an arena without getting roflstomped by a premade.
Absolute rubbish. All these arguments are invalidated by the fact there is still going to be a queue you can take your premade into. The only difference is with said queue is that you will end up fighting other premades. If this isn't a problem, why is there all the complaining about a pug only queue?
Oh thats it, most premades are afraid to lose, so they don't want to fight other premades.
Really because having 5 people from the same fleet with varying builds and skill does not constitute a premade. Yes the skill is better than a random pug group and these "premades" probably would not do well against a tourney setup team. If me and 4 other fleetmates dropped our fleet came into the queues and curbstomped pug after pug thats fine since we are the only ones that know that we all are in the same fleet, you wouldn't be the wiser. I have been on some premades where we went into the queues as tac escort capts only what that is too much for a 4 cruiser 1 sci pug to handle. I understand people hate to be curbstomp but a lot of the justification in this thread is stupid. Hey if it makes you sleep better or fit in better because you have not looked int he mirror to see the 1st thing wrong with your build no amount of PuG queues is going to help. If you were bad before you will be bad now only with an ego stroke because a couple of good players carried your team.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
another absolute rubbish post. yeah you're thinking of pugmade or some average fleet made. everyone here is talking about premade. get it together man. you have your own queue now, go prove your "superior" skill there and teach all of us nooblets a lesson. ARE YOU SCARED???
show us or stfu.
Go file a hurt feelings report because you pug and get stomped by fleets that more TRIBBLE around and just grinding dailies as a fleet. I have not seen a true "Premade" in the queues in awhile. You are more made that 5 skilled people pre-teamed and owned you and 4 farmers that could careless about winning just getting the daily done.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
1) why remove the old queues Fed vs Kdf? can't we have them and the new "general queues"?
2) why still 5 vs 5? can we have a bigger match (ex 10 vs 10)?
However I also think devs should promote someway pvp (dayly missions are not enough): some better reward for winner or best 3 match's player... reward can be, marks, items, little buffs, help for base/holdings building or a sort of "personal provvision"/discount for buying fleet items (ex shields, console, weapons, assets...), one or more permanent rankings (one based on kills, one on won matchs, one on damage dealed... separated rankings for premades and pugs..)
This. and 3v3 que.
3v3 is so much more fun than 5v5 or even 10v10.
Its a thinking mans game. Rather than the random pewpew focus fire pewpewpew TRIBBLE.
in a 3v3 focus fire isnt enough. you have to pay attention to what it is you're firing.
Go file a hurt feelings report because you pug and get stomped by fleets that more TRIBBLE around and just grinding dailies as a fleet. I have not seen a true "Premade" in the queues in awhile. You are more made that 5 skilled people pre-teamed and owned you and 4 farmers that could careless about winning just getting the daily done.
If there are no true premades in the queues anymore you and your fleet have nothing to worry about in the non-pug queue then do you? You and other fleets get to team up and fight equal teams, pugs get their casual pug only queues. Everyone is a winner.
Unless of course you don't want to fight other premades. Why is that?
you should listened and stfu. ur just spewing more nonsense cuz u cant face reality. i hope ur one of those people who took premade in public queues. maybe now you will see where real skill is.
Face reality. Actually for a long time I haven't been part of a fleet that was brave enough to send a group into the queues, that being a primarily KDF player and being 1 of 10 on at a given time I haven't had the luxury of being a "Premade" team grinding dailies. The reasoning behind this split is the same reasoning behind the FvF and KvK split, fed players were scared of KvF. This split is nothing more than perception. The bad players will get annihilated but won't lose 15-0 but maybe 15-5 because they had one of the players they hate the most buoying their team.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
If there are no true premades in the queues anymore you and your fleet have nothing to worry about in the non-pug queue then do you? You and other fleets get to team up and fight equal teams, pugs get their casual pug only queues. Everyone is a winner.
Unless of course you don't want to fight other premades. Why is that?
Wow the PvP fleets have you guys psyched out. You guys pay attention to a fleet name instead of the people playing. Have you tried to aget a "Premade 5 team" together and try and find another one. Or lets say me and you want to team and shoot the **** and grind dailies with 3 other friends do you want queue in the "premade" queue because we are friends and are just trying to grind dailies nothing more nothing less.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
You and other fleets get to team up and fight equal teams, pugs get their casual pug only queues. Everyone is a winner.
You have serious delusions about the number of premades in this game at any given time.
According to the current queue numbers, there are maybe 10-40 players (depending on the time of day) pvping in arenas at the same time via the queue. Since not all of these players are in premades, it seems fairly safe to assume that 2-3 is a good upper bound for the number of simultaneous premades in the queue (but most of the time it will be more like 0-1 full groups and maybe a small number of partial groups (2-3 players each)). Which means that even if the teamed queue doesn't die completely (maybe the 2- and 3-player partial groups can keep it going, but I'm pessimistic) it will most likely be the same 10 players having to play the same match over and over again. And most likely it will still be lopsided because just like with individual players, there are good and not so good premades.
You know which other game mode had matches that had the same 10 players over and over again? ShuttlePVP. It's quite dead now.
Matchmaking would have been the correct answer. Put 5 good single players against that mediocre premade that is otherwise stomping the random pugs and have them beat that premade. But no, Cryptic went the easy route and tries to hide the imbalance behind randomness.
Epeen of course. Devs taking away easy victories, introducing challenge in the mix with this change. It's the same mentality that pve carebears have, they cry when TRIBBLE abilities are nerfed. But the job is only halfway done, we need leaderboard, ranking, matchmaking of some sort.
So what? Wasn't that the point of tyler durden...
Lol nobody uses pvp to grind. That's a little inefficient. That's why we have pve.
Well I guess I have an aversion to circle jerking. I barely can make it through one instance of dino hunting for dil. At least the PvP dailies are worth while and accomplish something and offers a challenge. I know there some here that like to grind for 50K dil a day more power to you. But once your are repped up grinding the various battlezones, STFs, etc is pretty much useless especially if you are repping a lowbie where it is necessary. I will take my meager PvP daily dil before I go dino tagging in Dyson Zone.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
You have serious delusions about the number of premades in this game at any given time.
According to the current queue numbers, there are maybe 10-40 players (depending on the time of day) pvping in arenas at the same time via the queue. Since not all of these players are in premades, it seems fairly safe to assume that 2-3 is a good upper bound for the number of simultaneous premades in the queue (but most of the time it will be more like 0-1 full groups and maybe a small number of partial groups (2-3 players each)). Which means that even if the teamed queue doesn't die completely (maybe the 2- and 3-player partial groups can keep it going, but I'm pessimistic) it will most likely be the same 10 players having to play the same match over and over again. And most likely it will still be lopsided because just like with individual players, there are good and not so good premades.
You know which other game mode had matches that had the same 10 players over and over again? ShuttlePVP. It's quite dead now.
With many folks in an almost constant state of grinding PvE - there's not really going to be that much of a PvP population. With gear making such a difference between relatively otherwise skilled players...folks might start to show up if they finish a grind before another one appears or unless some limited time even appears. All of that is competing for their game time...
Matchmaking would have been the correct answer. Put 5 good single players against that mediocre premade that is otherwise stomping the random pugs and have them beat that premade. But no, Cryptic went the easy route and tries to hide the imbalance behind randomness.
Would it have though? Just like there's going to be the issue of the same Premades seeing the same Premades...like what you describe happening with Shuttle PvP...wouldn't matchmaking just result in the same groups facing each other as well?
There's just not the population for it. They need to grow the population...randomization with a small pop isn't really going to be all that random. Matchmaking with a small pop would be more like setting up marriages than dates. It's a population issue, imho, that needs to grow - then other things can be done to split things up, get into that kind of matchmaking, and the rest.
I'm not sure it can happen with Cryptic having spent the last two years making the game accessible to anybody that might know how to turn a computer on and driving away even the casual MMO players in the process.
Well it depends. If a matchmaking system was implemented, pvp in this game could be seen in another light: fair, balanced and definitely not broken. I think people would be motivated to queue up and fight strangers, even if they have fail builds and try it out. Everyone already knows fleets are doing private matches, just for fun where no one cares about timing and stuff.
You never know, this move could be the one thing cryptic needs to invigorate their game. Yes, it's a risk, but PvP is dying. The choice now is to either improve it or scrap it altogether.
It's just a case of numbers...with low population...you'd likely be matching the same folks against the same folks. Which could easily lead to folks tiring of losing to or beating the same folks...and the queues die out completely. If the pop was there to "guarantee" that folks could have that pseudo balanced matches against multiple opponents, no doubt that would be the way to go.
Is that pop there though?
And again, is the pop lower now - because folks are running Mirror - grinding other things...and with their limited time to play simply avoiding PvP. It happens with each event - folks are simply doing other stuff. We've also got S9 right around the corner...are folks going to be grinding that up or hitting the queues?
If you have 2-3 premades in the queues, that's 10 to 15 people already. You gotta have 10 to 15 puggers facing these so called premades.
With a population of 40 players, the chances are that you will have 2-3 matches with premades involved, and 1-2 pure pug vs pug matches. Pug matches are the endangered ones imho.
Sidenote: Ideally this would have been a good thing overall, eliminating pugs from the game. PvP is ultimately a team game. But on the other hand, this game is extremely casual, not everyone has the time to do premady stuff. So cryptic gotta choose who to cater to, hardcore players or the casuals? But I do understand the need for matchmaking.
The alternative is for premade to continue facerolling pugs. It's just sad and depressing watching this happen. Part of the main reason why I'm gradually losing interest in pvp.
I do think that ultimately this change favors premade overall. They won't have to chase each other in the public queues. They don't have to schedule private matches. They will queue up prepared with synergistic team builds much unlike pug teams. The only real problem I see right now is that cryptic took too long to implement this, when the pvp community has decreased to extinction almost.
The only issue is in the queues you are most likely going to end up with a majority of the OPvP/TD crowd in it with PuGs. Matches for the most part will be closer in the beginning then two things will happen, 1) Puggers are going to realize they are still getting rolled whether they are on the winning side or losing side, in a random match you end with 2 pandas and 2 hobos opposite each other, the match ends 15-7 with with all puggers being the majority if not all the deaths. 2) The vets will get tired of losing because of the pugs and leaves PvP because premade is pretty much dead. This split is nothing more than the FvF/KvK split after the feds cried about OP'd KDF, this is a further nail in high end PvP's coffin. It will be a race to see who can kill the most pugs first in matches with higher skilled PvPers on opposite teams.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
The only issue is in the queues you are most likely going to end up with a majority of the OPvP/TD crowd in it with PuGs. Matches for the most part will be closer in the beginning then two things will happen, 1) Puggers are going to realize they are still getting rolled whether they are on the winning side or losing side, in a random match you end with 2 pandas and 2 hobos opposite each other, the match ends 15-7 with with all puggers being the majority if not all the deaths. 2) The vets will get tired of losing because of the pugs and leaves PvP because premade is pretty much dead. This split is nothing more than the FvF/KvK split after the feds cried about OP'd KDF, this is a further nail in high end PvP's coffin. It will be a race to see who can kill the most pugs first in matches with higher skilled PvPers on opposite teams.
That is a likely scenario. Pugs still loss, and now the 2 friend players team also loss because they can not even be together!
Good fleet or friend pre mades are nearly dead in this game, and the bigger winners of the changes are the individuals that like to stomp pugs.
Like I said, what is going to happened in 2 month one a Scimatar just **** a hole pug team with 4M damage? Pugs are going to cry haxo? Hacker?
We already have PVPers claiming that they are going to have a lot of fun spaming aceton acimilators (incert other chesee) in the queues.. poor pugs.
I dont see this as a fix for PVP, but a new problem..
Assuming the population will stay low, or decrease even further after this change. But you're right, I gotta hand it to cryptic they absolutely love timing their content the best possible way (/sarcasm). Splitting the queues should have been done a looooooooooong time ago, when people were still excited and naive about pvp in this game. Don't wait until they've been in the dragon's belly, digested into pure jelly by the whole brokeness that is PvP and moved on to other games to introduce decent PvP mechanisms.
But yeah, matchmaking might not work if no one goes in the queue. I don't think that would be the fault of the system itself, this is cryptic's doing after people have been telling them to do this since what? 4 years now? Sigh...
Oh yeah, definitely not an issue with what matchmaking could have done with a healthy population...or at least with a population not on its last breath.
The only issue is in the queues you are most likely going to end up with a majority of the OPvP/TD crowd in it with PuGs. .
I am hoping as cross long as the teamed queues allow cross faction teaming this won't be so much of a problem and the team queues will still be busy too. I know I will be in the team queues a lot, and even more if I can team with HoBO when I am on my Feds too.
Comments
Oh, wasn't asking that you do it specifically - a case of bouncing around too many threads while playing and rushing things. Was more a case of your thoughts on that aspect. And yeah, it was more of a folks trying to game the system - but can't see somebody going through that much effort just to game a PUG queue like that. Hopefully somebody at Cryptic takes a look. Hrmm, wouldn't be the normal guys or anything would it...that would actually fall to one of the programmers, eh? Hrmm, maybe somebody will take a look at it...hopefully.
If players then truly create new characters all the time so that they can play a maximum of like 5 matches where they are being balanced with too low a score before the proper balancing kicks in... well, I don't think that this is a serious problem that one needs to account for.
Wasn't really thinking about them rerolling as much as possible respec/ship change (not with them trying to game anything, just a natural possible change).
Say you had a Sci that had been flying a Temporal Sci and generated X numbers. They do a respec and start flying a Recluse, because they wanted to do something new. Somewhere down the road, they decide to respec again and hop in a DSD. Somewhere further down the road, they decide to hop in a Cruiser. All their data might show them doing X, when they're no longer doing X. So they'd be placed differently.
And no, it wouldn't likely be even a minor concern...but it would play into the new guy without any rating and how they'd be placed, eh? Something to be figured into the ship change guy...that new player default number for a potential build modifying any existing history they had.
Yep, this needs to keep being brought up...Mini's thread got merged with this one, but it should be brought up here and the notes thread...over and over, not to the point of spamming - but to the point that they get it.
Nice work, Cryptic, I can always count on you.
realy ?? , if u want RP just do private man , we dont care of what u do in private ! lol
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I can follow what you are saying but I have to ask you why these teams, team up? This style queuing system is never going to work until penalties are installed to being afk, leaving, and not respawning. Fleets and friends team up not to pug stop but to have a good time with friends and not run into the players that log or die once and go afk. Some simple mechanics like a kick from match option and a claim victory button for those matches where people leave.
Kick from match should be for a player not respawning initiated from his team mates. This should kick the player from the match and give him a hour queuing penalty. To make the match fair a random person would be removed from the other team and given rewards for a victory.
Claim victory should allow a team to claim victory when the teams are upside down by people either leavening a match or logging out and leaving a team in the match by themselves. To go along with this is a hour long cooldown for anyone that leaves a match and anyone using (Attack Pattern Talon Jones) logging out. When people log the game should have a logout script run and this should determine the penalty.
The problem never was premades. Premades got together to prevent stuff like this from happening on there team. And as far as pug stomping there is not a group out there that wants to stomp pugs just for the hell of it. I enjoy the matches more if I loose in a close match and winning a land slide. Most premades would agree with that.
Absolute rubbish. All these arguments are invalidated by the fact there is still going to be a queue you can take your premade into. The only difference is with said queue is that you will end up fighting other premades. If this isn't a problem, why is there all the complaining about a pug only queue?
Oh thats it, most premades are afraid to lose, so they don't want to fight other premades.
1) why remove the old queues Fed vs Kdf? can't we have them and the new "general queues"?
2) why still 5 vs 5? can we have a bigger match (ex 10 vs 10)?
However I also think devs should promote someway pvp (dayly missions are not enough): some better reward for winner or best 3 match's player... reward can be, marks, items, little buffs, help for base/holdings building or a sort of "personal provvision"/discount for buying fleet items (ex shields, console, weapons, assets...), one or more permanent rankings (one based on kills, one on won matchs, one on damage dealed... separated rankings for premades and pugs..)
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
It was already dead... do you really think anyone would bother with it after this change ?
You would sit in the que by yourself for days. Might as well remove it right.
I think they are also planning to end the Federation Klingon war... which was always stupid. It was the sort of writing you would read in a Trek fiction book that was so bad you would have to triple check if it was approved by CBS. lol
This. Some people seem really desperate to win at all costs (and afterwards often go on an brag about their 'skill') and now complain that there will be a good chance with the current changes that they face an equal team. :rolleyes:
yes and no...
It's possible you are right, but I do not see any cost in having both the queues and I do not think to be the only one who like the idea of a "fed vs kdf" war.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Really because having 5 people from the same fleet with varying builds and skill does not constitute a premade. Yes the skill is better than a random pug group and these "premades" probably would not do well against a tourney setup team. If me and 4 other fleetmates dropped our fleet came into the queues and curbstomped pug after pug thats fine since we are the only ones that know that we all are in the same fleet, you wouldn't be the wiser. I have been on some premades where we went into the queues as tac escort capts only what that is too much for a 4 cruiser 1 sci pug to handle. I understand people hate to be curbstomp but a lot of the justification in this thread is stupid. Hey if it makes you sleep better or fit in better because you have not looked int he mirror to see the 1st thing wrong with your build no amount of PuG queues is going to help. If you were bad before you will be bad now only with an ego stroke because a couple of good players carried your team.
Go file a hurt feelings report because you pug and get stomped by fleets that more TRIBBLE around and just grinding dailies as a fleet. I have not seen a true "Premade" in the queues in awhile. You are more made that 5 skilled people pre-teamed and owned you and 4 farmers that could careless about winning just getting the daily done.
This. and 3v3 que.
3v3 is so much more fun than 5v5 or even 10v10.
Its a thinking mans game. Rather than the random pewpew focus fire pewpewpew TRIBBLE.
in a 3v3 focus fire isnt enough. you have to pay attention to what it is you're firing.
If there are no true premades in the queues anymore you and your fleet have nothing to worry about in the non-pug queue then do you? You and other fleets get to team up and fight equal teams, pugs get their casual pug only queues. Everyone is a winner.
Unless of course you don't want to fight other premades. Why is that?
Face reality. Actually for a long time I haven't been part of a fleet that was brave enough to send a group into the queues, that being a primarily KDF player and being 1 of 10 on at a given time I haven't had the luxury of being a "Premade" team grinding dailies. The reasoning behind this split is the same reasoning behind the FvF and KvK split, fed players were scared of KvF. This split is nothing more than perception. The bad players will get annihilated but won't lose 15-0 but maybe 15-5 because they had one of the players they hate the most buoying their team.
Wow the PvP fleets have you guys psyched out. You guys pay attention to a fleet name instead of the people playing. Have you tried to aget a "Premade 5 team" together and try and find another one. Or lets say me and you want to team and shoot the **** and grind dailies with 3 other friends do you want queue in the "premade" queue because we are friends and are just trying to grind dailies nothing more nothing less.
According to the current queue numbers, there are maybe 10-40 players (depending on the time of day) pvping in arenas at the same time via the queue. Since not all of these players are in premades, it seems fairly safe to assume that 2-3 is a good upper bound for the number of simultaneous premades in the queue (but most of the time it will be more like 0-1 full groups and maybe a small number of partial groups (2-3 players each)). Which means that even if the teamed queue doesn't die completely (maybe the 2- and 3-player partial groups can keep it going, but I'm pessimistic) it will most likely be the same 10 players having to play the same match over and over again. And most likely it will still be lopsided because just like with individual players, there are good and not so good premades.
You know which other game mode had matches that had the same 10 players over and over again? ShuttlePVP. It's quite dead now.
Matchmaking would have been the correct answer. Put 5 good single players against that mediocre premade that is otherwise stomping the random pugs and have them beat that premade. But no, Cryptic went the easy route and tries to hide the imbalance behind randomness.
Well I guess I have an aversion to circle jerking. I barely can make it through one instance of dino hunting for dil. At least the PvP dailies are worth while and accomplish something and offers a challenge. I know there some here that like to grind for 50K dil a day more power to you. But once your are repped up grinding the various battlezones, STFs, etc is pretty much useless especially if you are repping a lowbie where it is necessary. I will take my meager PvP daily dil before I go dino tagging in Dyson Zone.
With many folks in an almost constant state of grinding PvE - there's not really going to be that much of a PvP population. With gear making such a difference between relatively otherwise skilled players...folks might start to show up if they finish a grind before another one appears or unless some limited time even appears. All of that is competing for their game time...
Would it have though? Just like there's going to be the issue of the same Premades seeing the same Premades...like what you describe happening with Shuttle PvP...wouldn't matchmaking just result in the same groups facing each other as well?
There's just not the population for it. They need to grow the population...randomization with a small pop isn't really going to be all that random. Matchmaking with a small pop would be more like setting up marriages than dates. It's a population issue, imho, that needs to grow - then other things can be done to split things up, get into that kind of matchmaking, and the rest.
I'm not sure it can happen with Cryptic having spent the last two years making the game accessible to anybody that might know how to turn a computer on and driving away even the casual MMO players in the process.
It's just a case of numbers...with low population...you'd likely be matching the same folks against the same folks. Which could easily lead to folks tiring of losing to or beating the same folks...and the queues die out completely. If the pop was there to "guarantee" that folks could have that pseudo balanced matches against multiple opponents, no doubt that would be the way to go.
Is that pop there though?
And again, is the pop lower now - because folks are running Mirror - grinding other things...and with their limited time to play simply avoiding PvP. It happens with each event - folks are simply doing other stuff. We've also got S9 right around the corner...are folks going to be grinding that up or hitting the queues?
The only issue is in the queues you are most likely going to end up with a majority of the OPvP/TD crowd in it with PuGs. Matches for the most part will be closer in the beginning then two things will happen, 1) Puggers are going to realize they are still getting rolled whether they are on the winning side or losing side, in a random match you end with 2 pandas and 2 hobos opposite each other, the match ends 15-7 with with all puggers being the majority if not all the deaths. 2) The vets will get tired of losing because of the pugs and leaves PvP because premade is pretty much dead. This split is nothing more than the FvF/KvK split after the feds cried about OP'd KDF, this is a further nail in high end PvP's coffin. It will be a race to see who can kill the most pugs first in matches with higher skilled PvPers on opposite teams.
That is a likely scenario. Pugs still loss, and now the 2 friend players team also loss because they can not even be together!
Good fleet or friend pre mades are nearly dead in this game, and the bigger winners of the changes are the individuals that like to stomp pugs.
Like I said, what is going to happened in 2 month one a Scimatar just **** a hole pug team with 4M damage? Pugs are going to cry haxo? Hacker?
We already have PVPers claiming that they are going to have a lot of fun spaming aceton acimilators (incert other chesee) in the queues.. poor pugs.
I dont see this as a fix for PVP, but a new problem..
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Oh yeah, definitely not an issue with what matchmaking could have done with a healthy population...or at least with a population not on its last breath.
I am hoping as cross long as the teamed queues allow cross faction teaming this won't be so much of a problem and the team queues will still be busy too. I know I will be in the team queues a lot, and even more if I can team with HoBO when I am on my Feds too.