Thank god for this que change. The majority have been asking for this for a long time. I have personaly fought for this. This will make pvp more enjoyable for the majority of the community.
Something tells me Premades will never see their queues pop again. No more Pug stomping and no more gloating about superior cheesework...uh I mean teamwork.
Hopefully the Premades finally realize they are the source of so many problems in this game and the #1 reason for the dwindling number of pvpers. STO was designed as a team game but not a game of Premades where for instance a "healer" is armed with nothing but turrets.
We have been asking for this for a long time. Thank you.
PVP:
All PvP Queues have been re-structured into All vs. All queues.
A new Space Arena PvP Queue has been added for unteamed players only.
This Unteamed Only queue will not allow premade teams to queue together.
This provides all participants with a level playing field in terms of teamwork and coordination.
Thank god for this que change. The majority have been asking for this for a long time. I have personaly fought for this. This will make pvp more enjoyable for the majority of the community.
Sure please be back a week after the change and list all the positives. Bad players will get rolled by good players premade or not. :rolleyes:
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Something tells me Premades will never see their queues pop again. No more Pug stomping and no more gloating about superior cheesework...uh I mean teamwork.
Hopefully the Premades finally realize they are the source of so many problems in this game and the #1 reason for the dwindling number of pvpers. STO was designed as a team game but not a game of Premades where for instance a "healer" is armed with nothing but turrets.
In a casual game where the goal is to make you Kirk, this is an incredibly tone deaf response. You don't even think there is a problem. Good, be the king of what's left of the queues.
SO what is going to be the excuse when bad players are still getting rolled by a team of semi experienced PvP players. Oh Yeah the cheese. :rolleyes: Stop making excuses and make a good build that holds up in PvP and then grind PvE using it.
Take the best pilot with the best build and have them pug, that player will be rolled by a premade. The point is, premades should only fight premades. This change does the job of separating premades and pugs, thank you devs.
Those threads are still on page 1 of the pvp forum.:rolleyes:
Yeah, I know, which is why it is puzzling seeing him start yet ANOTHER thread on the subject. It just creates more work for the mod when they all get merged together in a few hours/minutes.
It's like people have never been part of an all one sided pugs vs pugs arena. This change means nothing if there is no matchmaking. This fixes none of the pvp issues. Sorry to say.
Gotta give them credit though, I guess it shows cryptic still cares, but you know their job is only half way done. What took them so long anyway?
I give the Dev credit where credit is due. This is already a positive step forward, matchmaking or a ranking system can come later.
In a casual game where the goal is to make you Kirk, this is an incredibly tone deaf response. You don't even think there is a problem. Good, be the king of what's left of the queues.
Take the best pilot with the best build and have them pug, that player will be rolled by a premade. The point is, premades should only fight premades. This change does the job of separating premades and pugs, thank you devs.
The thing is a fleet teamed together is not a premade in most cases. so you mean to tell me when the Pandas roll your PuG it is because they happened to be a Panda 5 man team. Most PvP teams do not roll into the queues with their tourney setups, many are just grinding their dailies on whatever toon they happen to be on. No synergy builds that compliment each other they only benefit they have is most likely better communication. Why don't you guys lobby to have fleets disbanded or no communication but zone chat that is the only way you will see a drop off in performance from the so called "premades". All it is, is excuse making. Join a fleet that PvPs and actually tests things out and optimizes your build. You would actually be surprised how much communication is the difference maker in match. The disparity in skill among pugs is wider than the disparity of skill in a PvP fleet. One good PvPer in non PvP is like the blind leading the blind, good pvper in a pvp fleet has the advantage of maultiple inputs and various good builds to test against.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Yes because the Sad Pandas or Hobos or other fleets are rolling the queues with their premiere A-team looking for pugs to stomp. All this is cryptic welfare. Most fleets now roll pugmade teams, nothing more than members that are on at the time teaming, I have not seen a team froma PvP fleet rolling the same 5 people using a team build in PvP in a while. The members from a fleet are just that much better than those from non PvP fleets.
I can't say anything about Hobo because it's been a while but the pandas have several alt fleets. One of which is a fleet with cheese in the names and every one of them has cheese in their names. The purpose and intention of such alt fleet is beyond obvious so I will leave that for you to ponder yourself. In any event, there is a lot more Premades than just these 2.
I can't say anything about Hobo because it's been a while but the pandas have several alt fleets. One of which is a fleet with cheese in the names and every one of them has cheese in their names. The purpose and intention of such alt fleet is beyond obvious so I will leave that for you to ponder yourself. In any event, there is a lot more Premades than just these 2.
There are many reasons to have alt fleets, regardless no premade is rolling a premier team in the queues for dailies. I guess you have issues with an OPvP pugmade team also or a TD pugmade team.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
The thing is a fleet teamed together is not a premade in most cases. so you mean to tell me when the Pandas roll your PuG it is because they happened to be a Panda 5 man team. Most PvP teams do not roll into the queues with their tourney setups, many are just grinding their dailies on whatever toon they happen to be on. No synergy builds that compliment each other they only benefit they have is most likely better communication. Why don't you guys lobby to have fleets disbanded or no communication but zone chat that is the only way you will see a drop off in performance from the so called "premades". All it is, is excuse making. Join a fleet that PvPs and actually tests things out and optimizes your build. You would actually be surprised how much communication is the difference maker in match. The disparity in skill among pugs is wider than the disparity of skill in a PvP fleet. One good PvPer in non PvP is like the blind leading the blind, good pvper in a pvp fleet has the advantage of maultiple inputs and various good builds to test against.
It's not an excuse, it's a fact of the game. I, and the vast majority of players, don't want to have to join a pvp specific fleet (because I like my fleet) or do bootcamp or take whatever lumps just to PvP. Read your post again and tell me how that is supposed to fit into a casual game. It's not. So I say, enjoy the partition the devs gave you. Play in your sandbox while the rest of us play in ours.
It's not an excuse, it's a fact of the game. I, and the vast majority of players, don't want to have to join a pvp specific fleet (because I like my fleet) or do bootcamp or take whatever lumps just to PvP. Read your post again and tell me how that is supposed to fit into a casual game. It's not. So I say, enjoy the partition the devs gave you. Play in your sandbox while the rest of us play in ours.
So PvP should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator because you are lazy.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
I guess you're just trolling now... Moving along :rolleyes:.
No I am not is there other options other than chat, yes are they optimal, no, does it work, yes. Because you do not have A and Hate to use B is not an excuse for not communicating.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
No I am not is there other options other than chat, yes are they optimal, no, does it work, yes. Because you do not have A and Hate to use B is not an excuse for not communicating.
but it doesn't work. not functioning most of the time means not working...
Voice chat is a huge boost to teamwork. Other mmos that have it go a lot smother. Most people aren't even chatty and usually just listen.
It's not a matter of hating to type, but just being able to speak rather than only type is amazingly strong...if it wasn't people wouldn't need TS or Vent to talk in premades.
I wouldn't say lazy. I'm willing to do some research. Maybe not willing to use the same I win build as everyone else. But I'm willing to try things out.
I've been running a pvp experiment over the past few weeks.
I've played about 40 games. About 4 of these were good.
In the others there was zero chance to score a point.
Point is 10% competitive matches - 90% 15-0 matches.
How many people will play something like that for long?
With no teams there might be some chance that both teams have a weak player (someone like me). Then at least the losing team can score a couple points and maybe feel it was fun. Then maybe more will play. If this works out I can see cashing some dil and buying a competitive ship. No way i would do that for 10% or less fun.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I have to hand it to the Devs. They've really stepped it up the last few months. The new Rep system changes, easy loadout change ability, and now this: Cross faction queues and a PUG only queue. The Klingon warrior in me rejoices.
You would actually be surprised how much communication is the difference maker in match.
It's not just communication, though communication does vastly increase the odds in favor of that group...it's also simply going to be experience. Doesn't matter if they're not on optimized and synergistic builds...if they've got experience playing together. Which means there's going to be the "unspoken" communication taking place...so it does come back to communication.
Take an athlete...mid-season trade...compare their performance that first game to their second to their third with the new team.
So PvP should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator because you are lazy.
Making it possible for casual players to play without getting rolled my a 5 man rolftstomp premade isn't "dumbing down to the lowest common denominator". Any five man team that joins the queues is a premade. It is a prebuilt team assembled before the match begins. You can call it a "fleetmade" or whatever you'd like, but the concept remains. Many of us want to play matches against five RANDOM people, not five people from the same fleet that have logged hundreds of hours working together. There is no competition when five random people run into five people that have logged as many hours as some of the PvP fleets. I've always considered taking a five man team into the public queues to be equivalent of stacking the deck while playing a card game. We shouldn't be forced to join a PvP fleet just to have fun in PvP. With this new queue it is quite apparent that the devs agree with us; rather than the egotistical PvP fleet players that wish to continue queue stomping.
I wouldn't say lazy. I'm willing to do some research. Maybe not willing to use the same I win build as everyone else. But I'm willing to try things out.
I've been running a pvp experiment over the past few weeks.
I've played about 40 games. About 4 of these were good.
In the others there was zero chance to score a point.
Point is 10% competitive matches - 90% 15-0 matches.
How many people will play something like that for long?
With no teams there might be some chance that both teams have a weak player (someone like me). Then at least the losing team can score a couple points and maybe feel it was fun. Then maybe more will play. If this works out I can see cashing some dil and buying a competitive ship. No way i would do that for 10% or less fun.
PuGs really stand little chance in a match against experienced high end PvPers. Why you say because higher end pvpers have been exposed to truly awe inspiring builds either being ROFLstomped or being a team with some that was doing ROFL stomping. IF a new PvPer is willing to brave the queues that is the first step. After that it is really roll of the dice, you could up with a good team with good builds and things could be decent or you could be on a team where you have 3 cruisers running aceton beam and boarding parties and a ****** flying a shuttle. Them are the breaks in PuG PvP. In reality two vets on the same PuG will wipe the map against the average PuG PvPer. I have been in matches where I was the one doing all the healing and damage in my escort and the other 4 were there to provide targets of opportunity the score ended with my team 15-0 with me being responsible for 15 kills. I have also been in matches where I came across a PuGmade Premade and was killed 7 times. Paying attention to score is the first problem. When you PvP in PuGs you have to look at yourself first and foremost how did you feel you did where targettted first all the time or were targetted last that will tell you right then whether you were a threat. I Pvped months when I first started and was curbstomped repeatedly. Eventually instead of dying in 30 seconds I started dying after a minute then two and then I started getting kills and then I was breaking even iin K/D eventuall going to the plus. Point being if you are llooking at the end result then are missing the point. IS winning nice or performing admirably nice yeah but sometimes you need to endure hard lessons to reach the promise land.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
What's going to happen here is premade teams will not team just q at the same time they may not all be on the same team but even if 2-3 are its lights out for the other team, and the best part of it all is many players will now be facing the Klingon players for the first time...these player are elite like over 9k elite and where rarely available in random q's...PvP is about to get real boys and girls...and I like it
Making it possible for casual players to play without getting rolled my a 5 man rolftstomp premade isn't "dumbing down to the lowest common denominator". Any five man team that joins the queues is a premade. It is a prebuilt team assembled before the match begins. You can call it a "fleetmade" or whatever you'd like, but the concept remains. Many of us want to play matches against five RANDOM people, not five people from the same fleet that have logged hundreds of hours working together. There is no competition when five random people run into five people that have logged as many hours as some of the PvP fleets. I've always considered taking a five man team into the public queues to be equivalent of stacking the deck while playing a card game. We shouldn't be forced to join a PvP fleet just to have fun in PvP. With this new queue it is quite apparent that the devs agree with us; rather than the egotistical PvP fleet players that wish to continue queue stomping.
Again what is going to be to excuse when the casual PvPer is not having fun when they get curbstomped by a pug group with players froma a known PvP fleet. You are saying you do not like to lose, I do not like to lose but I will take my lumps. It is the big fish in the little pond syndrome. May pugs wnat the illusion to be the big fish, you want ROFLstomp some random pug. Most fleetmades are done because PuGs do stupid things that pretty much loses the match in the first 3 minutes, do not communicate, do not focus nothing. PvP is about team play but PuGs look at like a necessary evil to complete a mission for a daily.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
but it doesn't work. not functioning most of the time means not working...
Voice chat is a huge boost to teamwork. Other mmos that have it go a lot smother. Most people aren't even chatty and usually just listen.
It's not a matter of hating to type, but just being able to speak rather than only type is amazingly strong...if it wasn't people wouldn't need TS or Vent to talk in premades.
The thing is communication among PuGs is not the issue how many times have you seen a team mate say focus X and Team mate B is shooting at Z until he dies. Is voice nice yeah if everyone spoke the same language but if the basics such as focus fire are lost on PuGs you could have zero latency satellite transmissions and the most basic of ideas are still lost. I really want to say 50 % of the pug PvPers are just grinding dailies and do not care about the actual score or how to prevent their deaths
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Comments
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Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Amen, Brother.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
PVP:
All PvP Queues have been re-structured into All vs. All queues.
A new Space Arena PvP Queue has been added for unteamed players only.
This Unteamed Only queue will not allow premade teams to queue together.
This provides all participants with a level playing field in terms of teamwork and coordination.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Sure please be back a week after the change and list all the positives. Bad players will get rolled by good players premade or not. :rolleyes:
This exactly.
In a casual game where the goal is to make you Kirk, this is an incredibly tone deaf response. You don't even think there is a problem. Good, be the king of what's left of the queues.
Take the best pilot with the best build and have them pug, that player will be rolled by a premade. The point is, premades should only fight premades. This change does the job of separating premades and pugs, thank you devs.
Yeah, I know, which is why it is puzzling seeing him start yet ANOTHER thread on the subject. It just creates more work for the mod when they all get merged together in a few hours/minutes.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
I give the Dev credit where credit is due. This is already a positive step forward, matchmaking or a ranking system can come later.
The thing is a fleet teamed together is not a premade in most cases. so you mean to tell me when the Pandas roll your PuG it is because they happened to be a Panda 5 man team. Most PvP teams do not roll into the queues with their tourney setups, many are just grinding their dailies on whatever toon they happen to be on. No synergy builds that compliment each other they only benefit they have is most likely better communication. Why don't you guys lobby to have fleets disbanded or no communication but zone chat that is the only way you will see a drop off in performance from the so called "premades". All it is, is excuse making. Join a fleet that PvPs and actually tests things out and optimizes your build. You would actually be surprised how much communication is the difference maker in match. The disparity in skill among pugs is wider than the disparity of skill in a PvP fleet. One good PvPer in non PvP is like the blind leading the blind, good pvper in a pvp fleet has the advantage of maultiple inputs and various good builds to test against.
I can't say anything about Hobo because it's been a while but the pandas have several alt fleets. One of which is a fleet with cheese in the names and every one of them has cheese in their names. The purpose and intention of such alt fleet is beyond obvious so I will leave that for you to ponder yourself. In any event, there is a lot more Premades than just these 2.
There are many reasons to have alt fleets, regardless no premade is rolling a premier team in the queues for dailies. I guess you have issues with an OPvP pugmade team also or a TD pugmade team.
This!!!
OMG yes!!! no voice chat is a huge problem for pugs.
Are their fingers broken?
It's not an excuse, it's a fact of the game. I, and the vast majority of players, don't want to have to join a pvp specific fleet (because I like my fleet) or do bootcamp or take whatever lumps just to PvP. Read your post again and tell me how that is supposed to fit into a casual game. It's not. So I say, enjoy the partition the devs gave you. Play in your sandbox while the rest of us play in ours.
So PvP should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator because you are lazy.
No I am not is there other options other than chat, yes are they optimal, no, does it work, yes. Because you do not have A and Hate to use B is not an excuse for not communicating.
+10/char .
JOIN us in Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/INQ <
but it doesn't work. not functioning most of the time means not working...
Voice chat is a huge boost to teamwork. Other mmos that have it go a lot smother. Most people aren't even chatty and usually just listen.
It's not a matter of hating to type, but just being able to speak rather than only type is amazingly strong...if it wasn't people wouldn't need TS or Vent to talk in premades.
5 vs 5, the odds of both teams being roughly equal is what, 1 in 10 or so?
I've been running a pvp experiment over the past few weeks.
I've played about 40 games. About 4 of these were good.
In the others there was zero chance to score a point.
Point is 10% competitive matches - 90% 15-0 matches.
How many people will play something like that for long?
With no teams there might be some chance that both teams have a weak player (someone like me). Then at least the losing team can score a couple points and maybe feel it was fun. Then maybe more will play. If this works out I can see cashing some dil and buying a competitive ship. No way i would do that for 10% or less fun.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It's not just communication, though communication does vastly increase the odds in favor of that group...it's also simply going to be experience. Doesn't matter if they're not on optimized and synergistic builds...if they've got experience playing together. Which means there's going to be the "unspoken" communication taking place...so it does come back to communication.
Take an athlete...mid-season trade...compare their performance that first game to their second to their third with the new team.
Making it possible for casual players to play without getting rolled my a 5 man rolftstomp premade isn't "dumbing down to the lowest common denominator". Any five man team that joins the queues is a premade. It is a prebuilt team assembled before the match begins. You can call it a "fleetmade" or whatever you'd like, but the concept remains. Many of us want to play matches against five RANDOM people, not five people from the same fleet that have logged hundreds of hours working together. There is no competition when five random people run into five people that have logged as many hours as some of the PvP fleets. I've always considered taking a five man team into the public queues to be equivalent of stacking the deck while playing a card game. We shouldn't be forced to join a PvP fleet just to have fun in PvP. With this new queue it is quite apparent that the devs agree with us; rather than the egotistical PvP fleet players that wish to continue queue stomping.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
let's take it to eleven!!!
lol but yeah... lot's of posts on this already.
PuGs really stand little chance in a match against experienced high end PvPers. Why you say because higher end pvpers have been exposed to truly awe inspiring builds either being ROFLstomped or being a team with some that was doing ROFL stomping. IF a new PvPer is willing to brave the queues that is the first step. After that it is really roll of the dice, you could up with a good team with good builds and things could be decent or you could be on a team where you have 3 cruisers running aceton beam and boarding parties and a ****** flying a shuttle. Them are the breaks in PuG PvP. In reality two vets on the same PuG will wipe the map against the average PuG PvPer. I have been in matches where I was the one doing all the healing and damage in my escort and the other 4 were there to provide targets of opportunity the score ended with my team 15-0 with me being responsible for 15 kills. I have also been in matches where I came across a PuGmade Premade and was killed 7 times. Paying attention to score is the first problem. When you PvP in PuGs you have to look at yourself first and foremost how did you feel you did where targettted first all the time or were targetted last that will tell you right then whether you were a threat. I Pvped months when I first started and was curbstomped repeatedly. Eventually instead of dying in 30 seconds I started dying after a minute then two and then I started getting kills and then I was breaking even iin K/D eventuall going to the plus. Point being if you are llooking at the end result then are missing the point. IS winning nice or performing admirably nice yeah but sometimes you need to endure hard lessons to reach the promise land.
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
Again what is going to be to excuse when the casual PvPer is not having fun when they get curbstomped by a pug group with players froma a known PvP fleet. You are saying you do not like to lose, I do not like to lose but I will take my lumps. It is the big fish in the little pond syndrome. May pugs wnat the illusion to be the big fish, you want ROFLstomp some random pug. Most fleetmades are done because PuGs do stupid things that pretty much loses the match in the first 3 minutes, do not communicate, do not focus nothing. PvP is about team play but PuGs look at like a necessary evil to complete a mission for a daily.
The thing is communication among PuGs is not the issue how many times have you seen a team mate say focus X and Team mate B is shooting at Z until he dies. Is voice nice yeah if everyone spoke the same language but if the basics such as focus fire are lost on PuGs you could have zero latency satellite transmissions and the most basic of ideas are still lost. I really want to say 50 % of the pug PvPers are just grinding dailies and do not care about the actual score or how to prevent their deaths