Hey maybe the UFP will gain access to real one shot vapers with bcloak, the stackable shield -res elite fleet disruptors, extreme drain builds, all the toy consoles available in the c-store, better carrier pets...NOW!:P
The way I see it is any KDF on my fed's team is really a fed in disguise. The other team, if they have any "feds," are just dirty KDF trying to be deceitful and disguising themselves as honorable feds.
LOL
It's going to be fun playing my klingons....err um..feds in disguise.... lol
The thing is communication among PuGs is not the issue how many times have you seen a team mate say focus X and Team mate B is shooting at Z until he dies. Is voice nice yeah if everyone spoke the same language but if the basics such as focus fire are lost on PuGs you could have zero latency satellite transmissions and the most basic of ideas are still lost. I really want to say 50 % of the pug PvPers are just grinding dailies and do not care about the actual score or how to prevent their deaths
Voice chat is an extra tool to use...there's no reason to not have both text and voice.
Again what is going to be to excuse when the casual PvPer is not having fun when they get curbstomped by a pug group with players froma a known PvP fleet.
So be it. It is the luck of the draw, unless said team found a bug in the queue system to sneak a premade into the PUG queues. I'm pretty sure some of the unscrupulous premade groups will find a queue exploit when their queue is dead.
You are saying you do not like to lose, I do not like to lose but I will take my lumps.
I didn't say that, I don't mind losing at all. What I am saying is that I don't like losing to full prebuilt teams with players that are too afraid to queue solo.
Most fleetmades are done because PuGs do stupid things that pretty much loses the match in the first 3 minutes, do not communicate, do not focus nothing. PvP is about team play but PuGs look at like a necessary evil to complete a mission for a daily.
I see this claim all the time, it is one of saddest justification for PUG stomping I've ever seen. It is also the most widely repeated excuse for PUG stomping. The truth is, premades don't want to fight other premades. Instead, they want to feel the joy of winning 15-0 because they are "pro" and shouldn't have to die in a match. Just look in OPvP, every time a premade goes in there looking for a fight...-crickets-.
Again what is going to be to excuse when the casual PvPer is not having fun when they get curbstomped by a pug group with players froma a known PvP fleet. You are saying you do not like to lose, I do not like to lose but I will take my lumps. It is the big fish in the little pond syndrome. May pugs wnat the illusion to be the big fish, you want ROFLstomp some random pug. Most fleetmades are done because PuGs do stupid things that pretty much loses the match in the first 3 minutes, do not communicate, do not focus nothing. PvP is about team play but PuGs look at like a necessary evil to complete a mission for a daily.
STO's a casual game. Nothing about it in the least suggests that it is anything other than that. In fact, they've spent the last two plus years since going F2P to take it from a casual game to an extremely casual game.
PUGs doing stupid things is the expected norm. They're not the oddball...the oddball is the *made.
There's no ranking, no hierarchy, no leaderboards, etc, etc, etc - nothing Cryptic has - suggests anything other than a casual PvP environment. Some pew, pew fun. Players have taken it upon themselves to add in tournaments, ranking, leaderboards - but that's players doing that. That doesn't change the game...the game's still the same.
I still think they split team/non-team too soon though. The RvB should have been done long ago to grow the population. Then they should have added things for teams (not do things to teams as this appears, but do things for teams) and then split the queues.
Grow the population - create an environment for team play - create the ranking/leaderboards - offer various rewards for the higher level of play...then split the queues. Show that they've got a plan for the non-casual PvP...then split it.
Cause all this looks like is an attempt to kill off non-casual PvP. But that's not going to work - that's not going to support a healthy PvP environment nor community. The environment/community requires both...even if they make fun of each other, you still need that casual area and the non-casual area. Same issue is causing problems over in PvE, eh?
Some folks just want a little X and some folks want some Y. For an overall healthy community, they need to support both. Otherwise, those folks that want X that might find themselves wanting some Y...they're screwed. The folks that wanted Y, they've already left.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
It is the luck of the draw, unless said team found a bug in the queue system to sneak a premade into the PUG queues. I'm pretty sure some of the unscrupulous premade groups will find a queue exploit when their queue is dead.
So this is going to be the next scapegoat? Instead of "evil players queueing as a team" it will be "evil players gaming a random queue system"?
As fas as I can tell not a single player from the PVP fleets has voiced any kind of opposition to ideas of better matchmaking to eliminate pugstomps and bring about more balanced matches. But of course the "we don't need machmaking, we just want to get rid of the team players" crowd knows better. They pefer a purely random pug queue because it will allow them to keep blaming fleets for somehow circumventing the randomisation part when things won't go their way in the new random system.
The thing is communication among PuGs is not the issue how many times have you seen a team mate say focus X and Team mate B is shooting at Z until he dies. Is voice nice yeah if everyone spoke the same language but if the basics such as focus fire are lost on PuGs you could have zero latency satellite transmissions and the most basic of ideas are still lost. I really want to say 50 % of the pug PvPers are just grinding dailies and do not care about the actual score or how to prevent their deaths
Why does winning matter? If they don't have the ego issues involved with that, why does it matter to them? Did they have fun? Win or lose, one can have fun. Losing all the time tends not to be fun. Getting stomped all the time tends not to be fun. Losing can still be fun, though - not everybody needs to win to have fun.
When folks say "good game" at the end of a match, well - somebody lost right? They're still saying "gg" - they still had fun.
Makes me think of a basketball analogy...with say the neighborhood court or courts. There might be the folks there just looking for a pick-up game and then there may be the folks there looking for a challenge. The pick-up folks are just looking to shoot some hoops, have some fun. The other guys, might be looking at pride - how long they can hold the court before another team beats them - they might even be wagering on the games.
Voice chat is an extra tool to use...there's no reason to not have both text and voice.
I agree and until cryptic fixes its chat client :rolleyes: the chat window is the only option and while not optimal still works if the communicator knows what he/she is doing.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Why does winning matter? If they don't have the ego issues involved with that, why does it matter to them? Did they have fun? Win or lose, one can have fun. Losing all the time tends not to be fun. Getting stomped all the time tends not to be fun. Losing can still be fun, though - not everybody needs to win to have fun.
When folks say "good game" at the end of a match, well - somebody lost right? They're still saying "gg" - they still had fun.
Makes me think of a basketball analogy...with say the neighborhood court or courts. There might be the folks there just looking for a pick-up game and then there may be the folks there looking for a challenge. The pick-up folks are just looking to shoot some hoops, have some fun. The other guys, might be looking at pride - how long they can hold the court before another team beats them - they might even be wagering on the games.
Winning or losing shouldn't matter if you are learning. Yes stompings are not fun but with the overall disparity between casual pvpers and full time pvpers lends to the stomping. the casuals believe their builds are awesome and should work as well in PvP as it does PvE and then their little ship gets dispersed into a million pieces and automatically jumps to conclusion that do not involve themselves or their builds.
YOu can see it now so many casual guys believe that this feature will make their PvP ability better. I give it two weeks after the roll out that the QQ will return bashing the PvPers for the skill disparity.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
I have to hand it to the Devs. They've really stepped it up the last few months. The new Rep system changes, easy loadout change ability, and now this: Cross faction queues and a PUG only queue. The Klingon warrior in me rejoices.
I missed something... so you can create a team of mixed factions? or just que and then you'll be put in a stf with mix of factions... doesn't that happen already?
Wait til I queue up my vaper and stomp the pug queue
>=]
This does absolutely zero.
It doesn't do zero. Yes, folks can end up on a bad PUG vs. a better PUG. Without any sort of basic matchmaking, you could end up with all sorts of groups that it heavily favors one side over the other. Nobody can deny that's going to happen - Hell, it happens in PvE, right?
What does that tend to lead folks to do? Some are fine, they take it as it comes and muddle on through.
Some look to get more organized. They start looking around for folks with a clue and they start to get more organized. They start running PvE premades.
So...that same thing can't happen over in PvP?
This isn't something that could lead to more organized gameplay and more premade teams?
There's the expectation of losing to an organized team, putting together a new team to take on experienced teams can be a little overwhelming to folks. However, if folks start putting together those teams...then they're more likely to run into teams like themselves.
Which is where you get into some matchmaking on the team side of things...because otherwise it's just going to kill that process off, no?
And as it stands now, there are folks complaining that there's nobody left to fight...maybe they need to split up their teams to find somebody to fight, even if it ends up being against parts of their old team. Or they can just retire and walk away...
It's a complicated matter, and in the end - very few folks are really concerned about any sort of balanced game...most folks are at the extremes...meh.
There was potential with this change - I just believe it was done too early or not enough was done to do it at this point.
Even with the potential of folks grouping up because they can't take any more Excedrin for the /facepalms from the PUGs...won't really help if they've got no teams to fight. It really just comes off, to me, as trying to kill off non-casual/organized PvP. Or maybe it could be seen as a challenge to the organized folks out there...get more organized...get the ball rolling.
So this is going to be the next scapegoat? Instead of "evil players queueing as a team" it will be "evil players gaming a random queue system"?
As fas as I can tell not a single player from the PVP fleets has voiced any kind of opposition to ideas of better matchmaking to eliminate pugstomps and bring about more balanced matches. But of course the "we don't need machmaking, we just want to get rid of the team players" crowd knows better. They pefer a purely random pug queue because it will allow them to keep blaming fleets for somehow circumventing the randomisation part when things won't go their way in the new random system.
Why aren't you happy about the changes? Don't we all get what we wanted?
Pugs can now play against pugs without being stomped most of the time.
Premades can now play against premades without having to stomp a bunch of pugs in between.
I missed something... so you can create a team of mixed factions? or just que and then you'll be put in a stf with mix of factions... doesn't that happen already?
I haven't seen an answer (well, seen conflicting answers - but no dev answer) on the team angle. Whether a team can be made from both sides or not...
...the non-team queue though, will just drop in players - so you could have KDF and Feds placed on the same team.
Just not sure on a premade team being able to do that...meh. Anybody seen anything or tried to make a mixed faction team to queue team?
I haven't seen an answer (well, seen conflicting answers - but no dev answer) on the team angle. Whether a team can be made from both sides or not...
...the non-team queue though, will just drop in players - so you could have KDF and Feds placed on the same team.
Just not sure on a premade team being able to do that...meh. Anybody seen anything or tried to make a mixed faction team to queue team?
For PVE stuff right?
There was this ONE time where we were forming a private then all of a sudden the one setting it up accidently invited a fed, he and I were on our KDF toons, and we were able to team up a full 5 team with 2 kdf and 3 fed..
So this is going to be the next scapegoat? Instead of "evil players queueing as a team" it will be "evil players gaming a random queue system"?
As fas as I can tell not a single player from the PVP fleets has voiced any kind of opposition to ideas of better matchmaking to eliminate pugstomps and bring about more balanced matches. But of course the "we don't need machmaking, we just want to get rid of the team players" crowd knows better. They pefer a purely random pug queue because it will allow them to keep blaming fleets for somehow circumventing the randomisation part when things won't go their way in the new random system.
People will always seek a culprit for any situation. Does it actually matter if they blame players exploiting the queue system? They can blame any number of other things aswell. The luck of the draw, teammates performance, other teams performance or your very own performance (which usually is at the very bottom of reason why you might have lost a match).
When i go into the queue with a full team i can guarantee you that i always consciously know what i'm doing. Sure i'm doing it to get a fun match out of it and fun matches are definitely not 15-0 ones, but i always feel i bit guilty doing it, since i know it wasn't fun for me and definitly not for the other side. I just feel far more comfortable with the "random aspect of the current queue, since the pvp community seems very tightly connected and reputation is always a factor i (personally) am not willing to risk.
If players prefer the total anonymous randomization, then let them have it. But, of course, even this queue would be even better with a matchmaking system to prevent too lopsided a match from occurring. I also wouldn't mind a lobby system for the other queue, so that team matches would be more encouraged.
Why aren't you happy about the changes? Don't we all get what we wanted?
I wanted matchmaking for better balanced matches in a unified queue.
And where in your win-win do you see a proper place for 2-player mini teams? Queueing as a team doesn't always mean 5-player tournament-level premades, it's much more often 2-3 players playing a couple of rounds together.
I have to hand it to the Devs. They've really stepped it up the last few months. The new Rep system changes, easy loadout change ability, and now this: Cross faction queues and a PUG only queue. The Klingon warrior in me rejoices.
Yeah, except in the 'single player' queues I'm sure their will STILL be complaints when the random team generator mechanic puts a group of players who know how to coordinate in PvP. Then the ultra casuals will comp.lain the teaming mechanic for that queue is broken, etc; and whine just as much about how unfair it is they still can't have their fun in PvP, etc.
IMO - i just shows that there's NO STO Dev at Cryptic who really knows how to fix their horribly imbalanced and broken PvP system; but they figure this will placate the PvP casuals and Cryptic can continue adding horribly unbalanced lockbox consoles to the system; and not really have to bother with fixing or balancing the mess they've created in the first place.
Premade or not, so few actually play PvP in STO to begin with, that all this does is ensure those who queue single thinking they don't need to even think about builds, etc. because the team queues will pop even less frequently then they do by an order of magnitude; so those players will gpo into the single queues, and get randomly teamed together enough that the casuals will still get annoyed, etc.
I think in the long run, this change will finally kill off what remains of PvP in STO, but time will tell.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I understand that actual matchmaking would be a higher aim. I'd love to see that working ingame much more than what we get now...
...but tbh, I have never ever seen a working matchmaking system in any game I know. Even if it was possible for STO, I doubt the pool of players is big enough for some kind of fair matchmaking while not slowing down the queues for hours.
2-3 player teams will just have to pick up some guys from the commonly known pvp channels.
Alrighty so I've merged all the pvp discussions about the upcoming queue changes into one thread. Lets keep it that way shall we? :P
As for my opinion on them, I'm glad! I hated pvping in this game because honestly I got tired of being obliterated by premades. Sure, I had times where I made my own teams and tried going in but when the queues are basically all pvp vets 9 times outta 10, it gets old and it made me lose interest very fast which I'm sure is the case for a few.
So the no team pvp queue I'll be jumping in quite a bit now. Granted yes, I'll probably get my butt stomped still but at least I'll have a chance
And luckily, since my in game handle is different than my forum handle, no one will just say "Oh look it's Askray that stupid moderator GANK HIM!" :P
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
And luckily, since my in game handle is different than my forum handle, no one will just say "Oh look it's Askray that stupid moderator GANK HIM!" :P
Tsk tsk, Askray, bad idea. Saying something like that is a guarantee that it will happen now.
I don't know who you are in the game, I don't know what you fly. If you are looking for QQ, I can tell you I don't have any whine. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career in PvP. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you decloak now, that will be the end of it. I will not CC you, I will not vape you. But if you don't...I will snoop for you, I will find you, and I will make you respawn.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
...but tbh, I have never ever seen a working matchmaking system in any game I know. Even if it was possible for STO, I doubt the pool of players is big enough for some kind of fair matchmaking while not slowing down the queues for hours.
(At least for players who have at least a medium skill level. I only mention this hypothetical caveat because it hasn't really been tested with truly bad players because those usually don't engage in TD acitivities where this balancing method is being used.)
The algorithm only needs selfhealing, crosshealing, damage and kills as an input, and some remarks from Cryptic (a long time ago) sounded as if they might already be collecting such data for internal or future use. So it's plausible that this could be comparatively easy to implement, at the very least for the pug queue where one doesn't have to resort to smart optimisation algorithms because brute-forcing all possible team combinations is not a computational problem with only ten players.
And for a pug queue one can simply balance the first 10 players (or first 8 or whatever), so this does not add any delay to the queue times.
And luckily, since my in game handle is different than my forum handle, no one will just say "Oh look it's Askray that stupid moderator GANK HIM!" :P
I bet we've all given you a good ganking in our time, I suggest you support the community (see signature).
I often role in a team that hasn't practiced for weeks for a tournament, just a few guys (2 - 3 maybe 4) from my fleet or from OrganizedPvP that decide to join up and hit the queues and take a few pugs along for the ride. We've all been stomped, We've all stomped ourselves....Seeing 4/5 guys from the same fleet and people think "Premade!!" and warp out...simply isn't the case.
I have a feeling this will hurt the current PvP community as it stands, but that's my opinion and only time will tell.... but this could have been implemented far better as is always the case with this game unfortunately....
You seem to be very confident about this. Let's wait and see what's goin to happen. I bet the new pug queues will bring a lot of new players into the pool.
If that happens and pvps importance raises, cryptic might invest some time (and money) in a matchmaking system that's going to make us all happy
I bet we've all given you a good ganking in our time, I suggest you support the community (see signature).
I often role in a team that hasn't practiced for weeks for a tournament, just a few guys (2 - 3 maybe 4) from my fleet or from OrganizedPvP that decide to join up and hit the queues and take a few pugs along for the ride. We've all been stomped, We've all stomped ourselves....Seeing 4/5 guys from the same fleet and people think "Premade!!" and warp out...simply isn't the case.
I have a feeling this will hurt the current PvP community as it stands, but that's my opinion and only time will tell.... but this could have been implemented far better as is always the case with this game unfortunately....
It will hurt the community overall. You will have less premades publically queueing which will mean less people in PvP. Right now when I PuG first 3 minutes tell me if I need to put in effort. In most cases 9 out of 10 I end up with 3 kirks and 1 moron so I usually fight unbuffed because the match is already 4-0 before I finish my alpha buff cycle. I chalk it up as a loss and move on to the next match and the next PuG. A few fleets I have been in they have a PvP contingent but will most likely stick to private intrafleet practicing than going into live queues against unknown targets.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
You seem to be very confident about this. Let's wait and see what's goin to happen. I bet the new pug queues will bring a lot of new players into the pool.
If that happens and pvps importance raises, cryptic might invest some time (and money) in a matchmaking system that's going to make us all happy
It will but they will either get out when they realize teams or no teams they can't hang and they will cry even more about the Evul PvPers.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Comments
The way I see it is any KDF on my fed's team is really a fed in disguise. The other team, if they have any "feds," are just dirty KDF trying to be deceitful and disguising themselves as honorable feds.
LOL
It's going to be fun playing my klingons....err um..feds in disguise.... lol
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Voice chat is an extra tool to use...there's no reason to not have both text and voice.
I didn't say that, I don't mind losing at all. What I am saying is that I don't like losing to full prebuilt teams with players that are too afraid to queue solo.
15-0 matches are never fun to play.
I see this claim all the time, it is one of saddest justification for PUG stomping I've ever seen. It is also the most widely repeated excuse for PUG stomping. The truth is, premades don't want to fight other premades. Instead, they want to feel the joy of winning 15-0 because they are "pro" and shouldn't have to die in a match. Just look in OPvP, every time a premade goes in there looking for a fight...-crickets-.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
STO's a casual game. Nothing about it in the least suggests that it is anything other than that. In fact, they've spent the last two plus years since going F2P to take it from a casual game to an extremely casual game.
PUGs doing stupid things is the expected norm. They're not the oddball...the oddball is the *made.
There's no ranking, no hierarchy, no leaderboards, etc, etc, etc - nothing Cryptic has - suggests anything other than a casual PvP environment. Some pew, pew fun. Players have taken it upon themselves to add in tournaments, ranking, leaderboards - but that's players doing that. That doesn't change the game...the game's still the same.
I still think they split team/non-team too soon though. The RvB should have been done long ago to grow the population. Then they should have added things for teams (not do things to teams as this appears, but do things for teams) and then split the queues.
Grow the population - create an environment for team play - create the ranking/leaderboards - offer various rewards for the higher level of play...then split the queues. Show that they've got a plan for the non-casual PvP...then split it.
Cause all this looks like is an attempt to kill off non-casual PvP. But that's not going to work - that's not going to support a healthy PvP environment nor community. The environment/community requires both...even if they make fun of each other, you still need that casual area and the non-casual area. Same issue is causing problems over in PvE, eh?
Some folks just want a little X and some folks want some Y. For an overall healthy community, they need to support both. Otherwise, those folks that want X that might find themselves wanting some Y...they're screwed. The folks that wanted Y, they've already left.
>=]
This does absolutely zero.
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Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
As fas as I can tell not a single player from the PVP fleets has voiced any kind of opposition to ideas of better matchmaking to eliminate pugstomps and bring about more balanced matches. But of course the "we don't need machmaking, we just want to get rid of the team players" crowd knows better. They pefer a purely random pug queue because it will allow them to keep blaming fleets for somehow circumventing the randomisation part when things won't go their way in the new random system.
Why does winning matter? If they don't have the ego issues involved with that, why does it matter to them? Did they have fun? Win or lose, one can have fun. Losing all the time tends not to be fun. Getting stomped all the time tends not to be fun. Losing can still be fun, though - not everybody needs to win to have fun.
When folks say "good game" at the end of a match, well - somebody lost right? They're still saying "gg" - they still had fun.
Makes me think of a basketball analogy...with say the neighborhood court or courts. There might be the folks there just looking for a pick-up game and then there may be the folks there looking for a challenge. The pick-up folks are just looking to shoot some hoops, have some fun. The other guys, might be looking at pride - how long they can hold the court before another team beats them - they might even be wagering on the games.
QFT
It only make things even worse because a 5 man pug gets stomped by a 4 man pug and OPvPer the cries of nerfing will go to a new level.
I agree and until cryptic fixes its chat client :rolleyes: the chat window is the only option and while not optimal still works if the communicator knows what he/she is doing.
Winning or losing shouldn't matter if you are learning. Yes stompings are not fun but with the overall disparity between casual pvpers and full time pvpers lends to the stomping. the casuals believe their builds are awesome and should work as well in PvP as it does PvE and then their little ship gets dispersed into a million pieces and automatically jumps to conclusion that do not involve themselves or their builds.
YOu can see it now so many casual guys believe that this feature will make their PvP ability better. I give it two weeks after the roll out that the QQ will return bashing the PvPers for the skill disparity.
I missed something... so you can create a team of mixed factions? or just que and then you'll be put in a stf with mix of factions... doesn't that happen already?
It doesn't do zero. Yes, folks can end up on a bad PUG vs. a better PUG. Without any sort of basic matchmaking, you could end up with all sorts of groups that it heavily favors one side over the other. Nobody can deny that's going to happen - Hell, it happens in PvE, right?
What does that tend to lead folks to do? Some are fine, they take it as it comes and muddle on through.
Some look to get more organized. They start looking around for folks with a clue and they start to get more organized. They start running PvE premades.
So...that same thing can't happen over in PvP?
This isn't something that could lead to more organized gameplay and more premade teams?
There's the expectation of losing to an organized team, putting together a new team to take on experienced teams can be a little overwhelming to folks. However, if folks start putting together those teams...then they're more likely to run into teams like themselves.
Which is where you get into some matchmaking on the team side of things...because otherwise it's just going to kill that process off, no?
And as it stands now, there are folks complaining that there's nobody left to fight...maybe they need to split up their teams to find somebody to fight, even if it ends up being against parts of their old team. Or they can just retire and walk away...
It's a complicated matter, and in the end - very few folks are really concerned about any sort of balanced game...most folks are at the extremes...meh.
There was potential with this change - I just believe it was done too early or not enough was done to do it at this point.
Even with the potential of folks grouping up because they can't take any more Excedrin for the /facepalms from the PUGs...won't really help if they've got no teams to fight. It really just comes off, to me, as trying to kill off non-casual/organized PvP. Or maybe it could be seen as a challenge to the organized folks out there...get more organized...get the ball rolling.
Why aren't you happy about the changes? Don't we all get what we wanted?
Pugs can now play against pugs without being stomped most of the time.
Premades can now play against premades without having to stomp a bunch of pugs in between.
win-win imho
I haven't seen an answer (well, seen conflicting answers - but no dev answer) on the team angle. Whether a team can be made from both sides or not...
...the non-team queue though, will just drop in players - so you could have KDF and Feds placed on the same team.
Just not sure on a premade team being able to do that...meh. Anybody seen anything or tried to make a mixed faction team to queue team?
For PVE stuff right?
There was this ONE time where we were forming a private then all of a sudden the one setting it up accidently invited a fed, he and I were on our KDF toons, and we were able to team up a full 5 team with 2 kdf and 3 fed..
after that tho I was unable to do that.
People will always seek a culprit for any situation. Does it actually matter if they blame players exploiting the queue system? They can blame any number of other things aswell. The luck of the draw, teammates performance, other teams performance or your very own performance (which usually is at the very bottom of reason why you might have lost a match).
When i go into the queue with a full team i can guarantee you that i always consciously know what i'm doing. Sure i'm doing it to get a fun match out of it and fun matches are definitely not 15-0 ones, but i always feel i bit guilty doing it, since i know it wasn't fun for me and definitly not for the other side. I just feel far more comfortable with the "random aspect of the current queue, since the pvp community seems very tightly connected and reputation is always a factor i (personally) am not willing to risk.
If players prefer the total anonymous randomization, then let them have it. But, of course, even this queue would be even better with a matchmaking system to prevent too lopsided a match from occurring. I also wouldn't mind a lobby system for the other queue, so that team matches would be more encouraged.
And where in your win-win do you see a proper place for 2-player mini teams? Queueing as a team doesn't always mean 5-player tournament-level premades, it's much more often 2-3 players playing a couple of rounds together.
You talkin bout me?
Yeah, except in the 'single player' queues I'm sure their will STILL be complaints when the random team generator mechanic puts a group of players who know how to coordinate in PvP. Then the ultra casuals will comp.lain the teaming mechanic for that queue is broken, etc; and whine just as much about how unfair it is they still can't have their fun in PvP, etc.
IMO - i just shows that there's NO STO Dev at Cryptic who really knows how to fix their horribly imbalanced and broken PvP system; but they figure this will placate the PvP casuals and Cryptic can continue adding horribly unbalanced lockbox consoles to the system; and not really have to bother with fixing or balancing the mess they've created in the first place.
Premade or not, so few actually play PvP in STO to begin with, that all this does is ensure those who queue single thinking they don't need to even think about builds, etc. because the team queues will pop even less frequently then they do by an order of magnitude; so those players will gpo into the single queues, and get randomly teamed together enough that the casuals will still get annoyed, etc.
I think in the long run, this change will finally kill off what remains of PvP in STO, but time will tell.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
...but tbh, I have never ever seen a working matchmaking system in any game I know. Even if it was possible for STO, I doubt the pool of players is big enough for some kind of fair matchmaking while not slowing down the queues for hours.
2-3 player teams will just have to pick up some guys from the commonly known pvp channels.
As for my opinion on them, I'm glad! I hated pvping in this game because honestly I got tired of being obliterated by premades. Sure, I had times where I made my own teams and tried going in but when the queues are basically all pvp vets 9 times outta 10, it gets old and it made me lose interest very fast which I'm sure is the case for a few.
So the no team pvp queue I'll be jumping in quite a bit now. Granted yes, I'll probably get my butt stomped still but at least I'll have a chance
And luckily, since my in game handle is different than my forum handle, no one will just say "Oh look it's Askray that stupid moderator GANK HIM!" :P
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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Daaa Bears. *clink*
Or if you prefer:
Daaa Bulls.
...Sorry, old SNL reference. Had to get it out.
EDIT:
Tsk tsk, Askray, bad idea. Saying something like that is a guarantee that it will happen now.
I don't know who you are in the game, I don't know what you fly. If you are looking for QQ, I can tell you I don't have any whine. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career in PvP. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you decloak now, that will be the end of it. I will not CC you, I will not vape you. But if you don't...I will snoop for you, I will find you, and I will make you respawn.
So, what you're saying is...everybody needs to gank everybody - just in case it is you that they're gankin? :P
It works.
(At least for players who have at least a medium skill level. I only mention this hypothetical caveat because it hasn't really been tested with truly bad players because those usually don't engage in TD acitivities where this balancing method is being used.)
The algorithm only needs selfhealing, crosshealing, damage and kills as an input, and some remarks from Cryptic (a long time ago) sounded as if they might already be collecting such data for internal or future use. So it's plausible that this could be comparatively easy to implement, at the very least for the pug queue where one doesn't have to resort to smart optimisation algorithms because brute-forcing all possible team combinations is not a computational problem with only ten players.
And for a pug queue one can simply balance the first 10 players (or first 8 or whatever), so this does not add any delay to the queue times.
I bet we've all given you a good ganking in our time, I suggest you support the community (see signature).
I often role in a team that hasn't practiced for weeks for a tournament, just a few guys (2 - 3 maybe 4) from my fleet or from OrganizedPvP that decide to join up and hit the queues and take a few pugs along for the ride. We've all been stomped, We've all stomped ourselves....Seeing 4/5 guys from the same fleet and people think "Premade!!" and warp out...simply isn't the case.
I have a feeling this will hurt the current PvP community as it stands, but that's my opinion and only time will tell.... but this could have been implemented far better as is always the case with this game unfortunately....
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/channel_join OrganizedPvP
You seem to be very confident about this. Let's wait and see what's goin to happen. I bet the new pug queues will bring a lot of new players into the pool.
If that happens and pvps importance raises, cryptic might invest some time (and money) in a matchmaking system that's going to make us all happy
It will hurt the community overall. You will have less premades publically queueing which will mean less people in PvP. Right now when I PuG first 3 minutes tell me if I need to put in effort. In most cases 9 out of 10 I end up with 3 kirks and 1 moron so I usually fight unbuffed because the match is already 4-0 before I finish my alpha buff cycle. I chalk it up as a loss and move on to the next match and the next PuG. A few fleets I have been in they have a PvP contingent but will most likely stick to private intrafleet practicing than going into live queues against unknown targets.
It will but they will either get out when they realize teams or no teams they can't hang and they will cry even more about the Evul PvPers.