No I am not is there other options other than chat, yes are they optimal, no, does it work, yes. Because you do not have A and Hate to use B is not an excuse for not communicating.
but it doesn't work. not functioning most of the time means not working...
Voice chat is a huge boost to teamwork. Other mmos that have it go a lot smother. Most people aren't even chatty and usually just listen.
It's not a matter of hating to type, but just being able to speak rather than only type is amazingly strong...if it wasn't people wouldn't need TS or Vent to talk in premades.
I wouldn't say lazy. I'm willing to do some research. Maybe not willing to use the same I win build as everyone else. But I'm willing to try things out.
I've been running a pvp experiment over the past few weeks.
I've played about 40 games. About 4 of these were good.
In the others there was zero chance to score a point.
Point is 10% competitive matches - 90% 15-0 matches.
How many people will play something like that for long?
With no teams there might be some chance that both teams have a weak player (someone like me). Then at least the losing team can score a couple points and maybe feel it was fun. Then maybe more will play. If this works out I can see cashing some dil and buying a competitive ship. No way i would do that for 10% or less fun.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I have to hand it to the Devs. They've really stepped it up the last few months. The new Rep system changes, easy loadout change ability, and now this: Cross faction queues and a PUG only queue. The Klingon warrior in me rejoices.
You would actually be surprised how much communication is the difference maker in match.
It's not just communication, though communication does vastly increase the odds in favor of that group...it's also simply going to be experience. Doesn't matter if they're not on optimized and synergistic builds...if they've got experience playing together. Which means there's going to be the "unspoken" communication taking place...so it does come back to communication.
Take an athlete...mid-season trade...compare their performance that first game to their second to their third with the new team.
So PvP should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator because you are lazy.
Making it possible for casual players to play without getting rolled my a 5 man rolftstomp premade isn't "dumbing down to the lowest common denominator". Any five man team that joins the queues is a premade. It is a prebuilt team assembled before the match begins. You can call it a "fleetmade" or whatever you'd like, but the concept remains. Many of us want to play matches against five RANDOM people, not five people from the same fleet that have logged hundreds of hours working together. There is no competition when five random people run into five people that have logged as many hours as some of the PvP fleets. I've always considered taking a five man team into the public queues to be equivalent of stacking the deck while playing a card game. We shouldn't be forced to join a PvP fleet just to have fun in PvP. With this new queue it is quite apparent that the devs agree with us; rather than the egotistical PvP fleet players that wish to continue queue stomping.
I wouldn't say lazy. I'm willing to do some research. Maybe not willing to use the same I win build as everyone else. But I'm willing to try things out.
I've been running a pvp experiment over the past few weeks.
I've played about 40 games. About 4 of these were good.
In the others there was zero chance to score a point.
Point is 10% competitive matches - 90% 15-0 matches.
How many people will play something like that for long?
With no teams there might be some chance that both teams have a weak player (someone like me). Then at least the losing team can score a couple points and maybe feel it was fun. Then maybe more will play. If this works out I can see cashing some dil and buying a competitive ship. No way i would do that for 10% or less fun.
PuGs really stand little chance in a match against experienced high end PvPers. Why you say because higher end pvpers have been exposed to truly awe inspiring builds either being ROFLstomped or being a team with some that was doing ROFL stomping. IF a new PvPer is willing to brave the queues that is the first step. After that it is really roll of the dice, you could up with a good team with good builds and things could be decent or you could be on a team where you have 3 cruisers running aceton beam and boarding parties and a ****** flying a shuttle. Them are the breaks in PuG PvP. In reality two vets on the same PuG will wipe the map against the average PuG PvPer. I have been in matches where I was the one doing all the healing and damage in my escort and the other 4 were there to provide targets of opportunity the score ended with my team 15-0 with me being responsible for 15 kills. I have also been in matches where I came across a PuGmade Premade and was killed 7 times. Paying attention to score is the first problem. When you PvP in PuGs you have to look at yourself first and foremost how did you feel you did where targettted first all the time or were targetted last that will tell you right then whether you were a threat. I Pvped months when I first started and was curbstomped repeatedly. Eventually instead of dying in 30 seconds I started dying after a minute then two and then I started getting kills and then I was breaking even iin K/D eventuall going to the plus. Point being if you are llooking at the end result then are missing the point. IS winning nice or performing admirably nice yeah but sometimes you need to endure hard lessons to reach the promise land.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
What's going to happen here is premade teams will not team just q at the same time they may not all be on the same team but even if 2-3 are its lights out for the other team, and the best part of it all is many players will now be facing the Klingon players for the first time...these player are elite like over 9k elite and where rarely available in random q's...PvP is about to get real boys and girls...and I like it
Making it possible for casual players to play without getting rolled my a 5 man rolftstomp premade isn't "dumbing down to the lowest common denominator". Any five man team that joins the queues is a premade. It is a prebuilt team assembled before the match begins. You can call it a "fleetmade" or whatever you'd like, but the concept remains. Many of us want to play matches against five RANDOM people, not five people from the same fleet that have logged hundreds of hours working together. There is no competition when five random people run into five people that have logged as many hours as some of the PvP fleets. I've always considered taking a five man team into the public queues to be equivalent of stacking the deck while playing a card game. We shouldn't be forced to join a PvP fleet just to have fun in PvP. With this new queue it is quite apparent that the devs agree with us; rather than the egotistical PvP fleet players that wish to continue queue stomping.
Again what is going to be to excuse when the casual PvPer is not having fun when they get curbstomped by a pug group with players froma a known PvP fleet. You are saying you do not like to lose, I do not like to lose but I will take my lumps. It is the big fish in the little pond syndrome. May pugs wnat the illusion to be the big fish, you want ROFLstomp some random pug. Most fleetmades are done because PuGs do stupid things that pretty much loses the match in the first 3 minutes, do not communicate, do not focus nothing. PvP is about team play but PuGs look at like a necessary evil to complete a mission for a daily.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
but it doesn't work. not functioning most of the time means not working...
Voice chat is a huge boost to teamwork. Other mmos that have it go a lot smother. Most people aren't even chatty and usually just listen.
It's not a matter of hating to type, but just being able to speak rather than only type is amazingly strong...if it wasn't people wouldn't need TS or Vent to talk in premades.
The thing is communication among PuGs is not the issue how many times have you seen a team mate say focus X and Team mate B is shooting at Z until he dies. Is voice nice yeah if everyone spoke the same language but if the basics such as focus fire are lost on PuGs you could have zero latency satellite transmissions and the most basic of ideas are still lost. I really want to say 50 % of the pug PvPers are just grinding dailies and do not care about the actual score or how to prevent their deaths
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Hey maybe the UFP will gain access to real one shot vapers with bcloak, the stackable shield -res elite fleet disruptors, extreme drain builds, all the toy consoles available in the c-store, better carrier pets...NOW!:P
The way I see it is any KDF on my fed's team is really a fed in disguise. The other team, if they have any "feds," are just dirty KDF trying to be deceitful and disguising themselves as honorable feds.
LOL
It's going to be fun playing my klingons....err um..feds in disguise.... lol
The thing is communication among PuGs is not the issue how many times have you seen a team mate say focus X and Team mate B is shooting at Z until he dies. Is voice nice yeah if everyone spoke the same language but if the basics such as focus fire are lost on PuGs you could have zero latency satellite transmissions and the most basic of ideas are still lost. I really want to say 50 % of the pug PvPers are just grinding dailies and do not care about the actual score or how to prevent their deaths
Voice chat is an extra tool to use...there's no reason to not have both text and voice.
Again what is going to be to excuse when the casual PvPer is not having fun when they get curbstomped by a pug group with players froma a known PvP fleet.
So be it. It is the luck of the draw, unless said team found a bug in the queue system to sneak a premade into the PUG queues. I'm pretty sure some of the unscrupulous premade groups will find a queue exploit when their queue is dead.
You are saying you do not like to lose, I do not like to lose but I will take my lumps.
I didn't say that, I don't mind losing at all. What I am saying is that I don't like losing to full prebuilt teams with players that are too afraid to queue solo.
Most fleetmades are done because PuGs do stupid things that pretty much loses the match in the first 3 minutes, do not communicate, do not focus nothing. PvP is about team play but PuGs look at like a necessary evil to complete a mission for a daily.
I see this claim all the time, it is one of saddest justification for PUG stomping I've ever seen. It is also the most widely repeated excuse for PUG stomping. The truth is, premades don't want to fight other premades. Instead, they want to feel the joy of winning 15-0 because they are "pro" and shouldn't have to die in a match. Just look in OPvP, every time a premade goes in there looking for a fight...-crickets-.
Again what is going to be to excuse when the casual PvPer is not having fun when they get curbstomped by a pug group with players froma a known PvP fleet. You are saying you do not like to lose, I do not like to lose but I will take my lumps. It is the big fish in the little pond syndrome. May pugs wnat the illusion to be the big fish, you want ROFLstomp some random pug. Most fleetmades are done because PuGs do stupid things that pretty much loses the match in the first 3 minutes, do not communicate, do not focus nothing. PvP is about team play but PuGs look at like a necessary evil to complete a mission for a daily.
STO's a casual game. Nothing about it in the least suggests that it is anything other than that. In fact, they've spent the last two plus years since going F2P to take it from a casual game to an extremely casual game.
PUGs doing stupid things is the expected norm. They're not the oddball...the oddball is the *made.
There's no ranking, no hierarchy, no leaderboards, etc, etc, etc - nothing Cryptic has - suggests anything other than a casual PvP environment. Some pew, pew fun. Players have taken it upon themselves to add in tournaments, ranking, leaderboards - but that's players doing that. That doesn't change the game...the game's still the same.
I still think they split team/non-team too soon though. The RvB should have been done long ago to grow the population. Then they should have added things for teams (not do things to teams as this appears, but do things for teams) and then split the queues.
Grow the population - create an environment for team play - create the ranking/leaderboards - offer various rewards for the higher level of play...then split the queues. Show that they've got a plan for the non-casual PvP...then split it.
Cause all this looks like is an attempt to kill off non-casual PvP. But that's not going to work - that's not going to support a healthy PvP environment nor community. The environment/community requires both...even if they make fun of each other, you still need that casual area and the non-casual area. Same issue is causing problems over in PvE, eh?
Some folks just want a little X and some folks want some Y. For an overall healthy community, they need to support both. Otherwise, those folks that want X that might find themselves wanting some Y...they're screwed. The folks that wanted Y, they've already left.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
It is the luck of the draw, unless said team found a bug in the queue system to sneak a premade into the PUG queues. I'm pretty sure some of the unscrupulous premade groups will find a queue exploit when their queue is dead.
So this is going to be the next scapegoat? Instead of "evil players queueing as a team" it will be "evil players gaming a random queue system"?
As fas as I can tell not a single player from the PVP fleets has voiced any kind of opposition to ideas of better matchmaking to eliminate pugstomps and bring about more balanced matches. But of course the "we don't need machmaking, we just want to get rid of the team players" crowd knows better. They pefer a purely random pug queue because it will allow them to keep blaming fleets for somehow circumventing the randomisation part when things won't go their way in the new random system.
The thing is communication among PuGs is not the issue how many times have you seen a team mate say focus X and Team mate B is shooting at Z until he dies. Is voice nice yeah if everyone spoke the same language but if the basics such as focus fire are lost on PuGs you could have zero latency satellite transmissions and the most basic of ideas are still lost. I really want to say 50 % of the pug PvPers are just grinding dailies and do not care about the actual score or how to prevent their deaths
Why does winning matter? If they don't have the ego issues involved with that, why does it matter to them? Did they have fun? Win or lose, one can have fun. Losing all the time tends not to be fun. Getting stomped all the time tends not to be fun. Losing can still be fun, though - not everybody needs to win to have fun.
When folks say "good game" at the end of a match, well - somebody lost right? They're still saying "gg" - they still had fun.
Makes me think of a basketball analogy...with say the neighborhood court or courts. There might be the folks there just looking for a pick-up game and then there may be the folks there looking for a challenge. The pick-up folks are just looking to shoot some hoops, have some fun. The other guys, might be looking at pride - how long they can hold the court before another team beats them - they might even be wagering on the games.
Voice chat is an extra tool to use...there's no reason to not have both text and voice.
I agree and until cryptic fixes its chat client :rolleyes: the chat window is the only option and while not optimal still works if the communicator knows what he/she is doing.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Why does winning matter? If they don't have the ego issues involved with that, why does it matter to them? Did they have fun? Win or lose, one can have fun. Losing all the time tends not to be fun. Getting stomped all the time tends not to be fun. Losing can still be fun, though - not everybody needs to win to have fun.
When folks say "good game" at the end of a match, well - somebody lost right? They're still saying "gg" - they still had fun.
Makes me think of a basketball analogy...with say the neighborhood court or courts. There might be the folks there just looking for a pick-up game and then there may be the folks there looking for a challenge. The pick-up folks are just looking to shoot some hoops, have some fun. The other guys, might be looking at pride - how long they can hold the court before another team beats them - they might even be wagering on the games.
Winning or losing shouldn't matter if you are learning. Yes stompings are not fun but with the overall disparity between casual pvpers and full time pvpers lends to the stomping. the casuals believe their builds are awesome and should work as well in PvP as it does PvE and then their little ship gets dispersed into a million pieces and automatically jumps to conclusion that do not involve themselves or their builds.
YOu can see it now so many casual guys believe that this feature will make their PvP ability better. I give it two weeks after the roll out that the QQ will return bashing the PvPers for the skill disparity.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
I have to hand it to the Devs. They've really stepped it up the last few months. The new Rep system changes, easy loadout change ability, and now this: Cross faction queues and a PUG only queue. The Klingon warrior in me rejoices.
I missed something... so you can create a team of mixed factions? or just que and then you'll be put in a stf with mix of factions... doesn't that happen already?
Wait til I queue up my vaper and stomp the pug queue
>=]
This does absolutely zero.
It doesn't do zero. Yes, folks can end up on a bad PUG vs. a better PUG. Without any sort of basic matchmaking, you could end up with all sorts of groups that it heavily favors one side over the other. Nobody can deny that's going to happen - Hell, it happens in PvE, right?
What does that tend to lead folks to do? Some are fine, they take it as it comes and muddle on through.
Some look to get more organized. They start looking around for folks with a clue and they start to get more organized. They start running PvE premades.
So...that same thing can't happen over in PvP?
This isn't something that could lead to more organized gameplay and more premade teams?
There's the expectation of losing to an organized team, putting together a new team to take on experienced teams can be a little overwhelming to folks. However, if folks start putting together those teams...then they're more likely to run into teams like themselves.
Which is where you get into some matchmaking on the team side of things...because otherwise it's just going to kill that process off, no?
And as it stands now, there are folks complaining that there's nobody left to fight...maybe they need to split up their teams to find somebody to fight, even if it ends up being against parts of their old team. Or they can just retire and walk away...
It's a complicated matter, and in the end - very few folks are really concerned about any sort of balanced game...most folks are at the extremes...meh.
There was potential with this change - I just believe it was done too early or not enough was done to do it at this point.
Even with the potential of folks grouping up because they can't take any more Excedrin for the /facepalms from the PUGs...won't really help if they've got no teams to fight. It really just comes off, to me, as trying to kill off non-casual/organized PvP. Or maybe it could be seen as a challenge to the organized folks out there...get more organized...get the ball rolling.
So this is going to be the next scapegoat? Instead of "evil players queueing as a team" it will be "evil players gaming a random queue system"?
As fas as I can tell not a single player from the PVP fleets has voiced any kind of opposition to ideas of better matchmaking to eliminate pugstomps and bring about more balanced matches. But of course the "we don't need machmaking, we just want to get rid of the team players" crowd knows better. They pefer a purely random pug queue because it will allow them to keep blaming fleets for somehow circumventing the randomisation part when things won't go their way in the new random system.
Why aren't you happy about the changes? Don't we all get what we wanted?
Pugs can now play against pugs without being stomped most of the time.
Premades can now play against premades without having to stomp a bunch of pugs in between.
Comments
but it doesn't work. not functioning most of the time means not working...
Voice chat is a huge boost to teamwork. Other mmos that have it go a lot smother. Most people aren't even chatty and usually just listen.
It's not a matter of hating to type, but just being able to speak rather than only type is amazingly strong...if it wasn't people wouldn't need TS or Vent to talk in premades.
5 vs 5, the odds of both teams being roughly equal is what, 1 in 10 or so?
I've been running a pvp experiment over the past few weeks.
I've played about 40 games. About 4 of these were good.
In the others there was zero chance to score a point.
Point is 10% competitive matches - 90% 15-0 matches.
How many people will play something like that for long?
With no teams there might be some chance that both teams have a weak player (someone like me). Then at least the losing team can score a couple points and maybe feel it was fun. Then maybe more will play. If this works out I can see cashing some dil and buying a competitive ship. No way i would do that for 10% or less fun.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It's not just communication, though communication does vastly increase the odds in favor of that group...it's also simply going to be experience. Doesn't matter if they're not on optimized and synergistic builds...if they've got experience playing together. Which means there's going to be the "unspoken" communication taking place...so it does come back to communication.
Take an athlete...mid-season trade...compare their performance that first game to their second to their third with the new team.
Making it possible for casual players to play without getting rolled my a 5 man rolftstomp premade isn't "dumbing down to the lowest common denominator". Any five man team that joins the queues is a premade. It is a prebuilt team assembled before the match begins. You can call it a "fleetmade" or whatever you'd like, but the concept remains. Many of us want to play matches against five RANDOM people, not five people from the same fleet that have logged hundreds of hours working together. There is no competition when five random people run into five people that have logged as many hours as some of the PvP fleets. I've always considered taking a five man team into the public queues to be equivalent of stacking the deck while playing a card game. We shouldn't be forced to join a PvP fleet just to have fun in PvP. With this new queue it is quite apparent that the devs agree with us; rather than the egotistical PvP fleet players that wish to continue queue stomping.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
let's take it to eleven!!!
lol but yeah... lot's of posts on this already.
PuGs really stand little chance in a match against experienced high end PvPers. Why you say because higher end pvpers have been exposed to truly awe inspiring builds either being ROFLstomped or being a team with some that was doing ROFL stomping. IF a new PvPer is willing to brave the queues that is the first step. After that it is really roll of the dice, you could up with a good team with good builds and things could be decent or you could be on a team where you have 3 cruisers running aceton beam and boarding parties and a ****** flying a shuttle. Them are the breaks in PuG PvP. In reality two vets on the same PuG will wipe the map against the average PuG PvPer. I have been in matches where I was the one doing all the healing and damage in my escort and the other 4 were there to provide targets of opportunity the score ended with my team 15-0 with me being responsible for 15 kills. I have also been in matches where I came across a PuGmade Premade and was killed 7 times. Paying attention to score is the first problem. When you PvP in PuGs you have to look at yourself first and foremost how did you feel you did where targettted first all the time or were targetted last that will tell you right then whether you were a threat. I Pvped months when I first started and was curbstomped repeatedly. Eventually instead of dying in 30 seconds I started dying after a minute then two and then I started getting kills and then I was breaking even iin K/D eventuall going to the plus. Point being if you are llooking at the end result then are missing the point. IS winning nice or performing admirably nice yeah but sometimes you need to endure hard lessons to reach the promise land.
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
Again what is going to be to excuse when the casual PvPer is not having fun when they get curbstomped by a pug group with players froma a known PvP fleet. You are saying you do not like to lose, I do not like to lose but I will take my lumps. It is the big fish in the little pond syndrome. May pugs wnat the illusion to be the big fish, you want ROFLstomp some random pug. Most fleetmades are done because PuGs do stupid things that pretty much loses the match in the first 3 minutes, do not communicate, do not focus nothing. PvP is about team play but PuGs look at like a necessary evil to complete a mission for a daily.
The thing is communication among PuGs is not the issue how many times have you seen a team mate say focus X and Team mate B is shooting at Z until he dies. Is voice nice yeah if everyone spoke the same language but if the basics such as focus fire are lost on PuGs you could have zero latency satellite transmissions and the most basic of ideas are still lost. I really want to say 50 % of the pug PvPers are just grinding dailies and do not care about the actual score or how to prevent their deaths
The way I see it is any KDF on my fed's team is really a fed in disguise. The other team, if they have any "feds," are just dirty KDF trying to be deceitful and disguising themselves as honorable feds.
LOL
It's going to be fun playing my klingons....err um..feds in disguise.... lol
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Voice chat is an extra tool to use...there's no reason to not have both text and voice.
I didn't say that, I don't mind losing at all. What I am saying is that I don't like losing to full prebuilt teams with players that are too afraid to queue solo.
15-0 matches are never fun to play.
I see this claim all the time, it is one of saddest justification for PUG stomping I've ever seen. It is also the most widely repeated excuse for PUG stomping. The truth is, premades don't want to fight other premades. Instead, they want to feel the joy of winning 15-0 because they are "pro" and shouldn't have to die in a match. Just look in OPvP, every time a premade goes in there looking for a fight...-crickets-.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
STO's a casual game. Nothing about it in the least suggests that it is anything other than that. In fact, they've spent the last two plus years since going F2P to take it from a casual game to an extremely casual game.
PUGs doing stupid things is the expected norm. They're not the oddball...the oddball is the *made.
There's no ranking, no hierarchy, no leaderboards, etc, etc, etc - nothing Cryptic has - suggests anything other than a casual PvP environment. Some pew, pew fun. Players have taken it upon themselves to add in tournaments, ranking, leaderboards - but that's players doing that. That doesn't change the game...the game's still the same.
I still think they split team/non-team too soon though. The RvB should have been done long ago to grow the population. Then they should have added things for teams (not do things to teams as this appears, but do things for teams) and then split the queues.
Grow the population - create an environment for team play - create the ranking/leaderboards - offer various rewards for the higher level of play...then split the queues. Show that they've got a plan for the non-casual PvP...then split it.
Cause all this looks like is an attempt to kill off non-casual PvP. But that's not going to work - that's not going to support a healthy PvP environment nor community. The environment/community requires both...even if they make fun of each other, you still need that casual area and the non-casual area. Same issue is causing problems over in PvE, eh?
Some folks just want a little X and some folks want some Y. For an overall healthy community, they need to support both. Otherwise, those folks that want X that might find themselves wanting some Y...they're screwed. The folks that wanted Y, they've already left.
>=]
This does absolutely zero.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
As fas as I can tell not a single player from the PVP fleets has voiced any kind of opposition to ideas of better matchmaking to eliminate pugstomps and bring about more balanced matches. But of course the "we don't need machmaking, we just want to get rid of the team players" crowd knows better. They pefer a purely random pug queue because it will allow them to keep blaming fleets for somehow circumventing the randomisation part when things won't go their way in the new random system.
Why does winning matter? If they don't have the ego issues involved with that, why does it matter to them? Did they have fun? Win or lose, one can have fun. Losing all the time tends not to be fun. Getting stomped all the time tends not to be fun. Losing can still be fun, though - not everybody needs to win to have fun.
When folks say "good game" at the end of a match, well - somebody lost right? They're still saying "gg" - they still had fun.
Makes me think of a basketball analogy...with say the neighborhood court or courts. There might be the folks there just looking for a pick-up game and then there may be the folks there looking for a challenge. The pick-up folks are just looking to shoot some hoops, have some fun. The other guys, might be looking at pride - how long they can hold the court before another team beats them - they might even be wagering on the games.
QFT
It only make things even worse because a 5 man pug gets stomped by a 4 man pug and OPvPer the cries of nerfing will go to a new level.
I agree and until cryptic fixes its chat client :rolleyes: the chat window is the only option and while not optimal still works if the communicator knows what he/she is doing.
Winning or losing shouldn't matter if you are learning. Yes stompings are not fun but with the overall disparity between casual pvpers and full time pvpers lends to the stomping. the casuals believe their builds are awesome and should work as well in PvP as it does PvE and then their little ship gets dispersed into a million pieces and automatically jumps to conclusion that do not involve themselves or their builds.
YOu can see it now so many casual guys believe that this feature will make their PvP ability better. I give it two weeks after the roll out that the QQ will return bashing the PvPers for the skill disparity.
I missed something... so you can create a team of mixed factions? or just que and then you'll be put in a stf with mix of factions... doesn't that happen already?
It doesn't do zero. Yes, folks can end up on a bad PUG vs. a better PUG. Without any sort of basic matchmaking, you could end up with all sorts of groups that it heavily favors one side over the other. Nobody can deny that's going to happen - Hell, it happens in PvE, right?
What does that tend to lead folks to do? Some are fine, they take it as it comes and muddle on through.
Some look to get more organized. They start looking around for folks with a clue and they start to get more organized. They start running PvE premades.
So...that same thing can't happen over in PvP?
This isn't something that could lead to more organized gameplay and more premade teams?
There's the expectation of losing to an organized team, putting together a new team to take on experienced teams can be a little overwhelming to folks. However, if folks start putting together those teams...then they're more likely to run into teams like themselves.
Which is where you get into some matchmaking on the team side of things...because otherwise it's just going to kill that process off, no?
And as it stands now, there are folks complaining that there's nobody left to fight...maybe they need to split up their teams to find somebody to fight, even if it ends up being against parts of their old team. Or they can just retire and walk away...
It's a complicated matter, and in the end - very few folks are really concerned about any sort of balanced game...most folks are at the extremes...meh.
There was potential with this change - I just believe it was done too early or not enough was done to do it at this point.
Even with the potential of folks grouping up because they can't take any more Excedrin for the /facepalms from the PUGs...won't really help if they've got no teams to fight. It really just comes off, to me, as trying to kill off non-casual/organized PvP. Or maybe it could be seen as a challenge to the organized folks out there...get more organized...get the ball rolling.
Why aren't you happy about the changes? Don't we all get what we wanted?
Pugs can now play against pugs without being stomped most of the time.
Premades can now play against premades without having to stomp a bunch of pugs in between.
win-win imho