Not serious enough to scrap the whole idea of revamping something that on paper might sound good but when looking at the game of a whole it increases the power creep. If it goes live like anything I've heard so far I just won't bother coming back. Ever since I heard about that halfway thru the mirror event I didn't even bother to continue with that event much less participate in anything else in STO that is going to force me to grind to get a desired outcome that I would want and then just to rip it away.
If you really want to make me think you are listening scrap the whole revamp idea, get to the actual problem of power creep, and give all my characters that doff(don't care about the stupid FM's or dilithium) from the mirror event and then I might come back.
Y'know, what? At first this was funny, but after four months, it's tiresome.
Hello everyone,
We moved yesterdays post update to Dev Blog #3 as yesterdays addition to #5 was not the best blog to put that info into.
We wanted to alert everyone that we are listening to your feedback and take it very seriously.
Thanks for your understanding everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
idk capt. its feeling kinda hopeless and shutoff down here on the side that stands to loose, all the new stuff your promising seems to be only for the ones who surrender and install the arc software. The rep changes arent such a good idea, heres why..
People have already invested time and mats (dil most of all!) It was a real grind but we over came it and now have toons to stand up to the new enemys...the ones who are new or didnt invest into them yet dont need you to hold their hand, let em work for it like the rest of us. Its not mean, its fair! It can be done as we did it!! If players goals are pvp strength, they can build up to it like the ones who dominate it now....they got there honestly by trial and error, most likely took their losses to get to the top, if you want to stand on that hill climb the mountain like they did because its not for whiners, its for hardcore players that earned it!
idk capt. its feeling kinda hopeless and shutoff down here on the side that stands to loose, all the new stuff your promising seems to be only for the ones who surrender and install the arc software. The rep changes arent such a good idea, heres why..
People have already invested time and mats (dil most of all!) It was a real grind but we over came it and now have toons to stand up to the new enemys...the ones who are new or didnt invest into them yet dont need you to hold their hand, let em work for it like the rest of us. Its not mean, its fair! It can be done as we did it!! If players goals are pvp strength, they can build up to it like the ones who dominate it now....they got there honestly by trial and error, most likely took their losses to get to the top, if you want to stand on that hill climb the mountain like they did because its not for whiners, its for hardcore players that earned it!
It sucks. I just looked at the two fleets my characters are in for 2 mins and a quick minute 4 minute ISE run. The fleet projects are simply at stand still because people aren't logging in and investing time and energy into the game(for the last 2 weeks so far). All of this is because of Cryptic current BS and future BS making the Cap too low and easy content. Heading back to log into Second Life.
I also have a very negative feeling about this.
The passives were a motivation to overcome the grind, to let your character grow stronger, they are small bonuses but the thrill of earning them is amazing.
Only having 4 would completely ruin that as a few powers ends up being what everyone will take, and the rest dies off.
This is plain dumb, the only reason I leveled some reps were just so I could have the passives and become just a little better in the process, all that work to be have that little bit extra power is being flushed down the toilet. If Cryptic is looking for a way to negate content this is the sure fire way to do it, this setup makes it so pretty much you do reps for gear, no gear for you in a rep? just ignore it then. The passives made rep's worth getting.
I agree that it is necessary to limit creep, but you can not deny the fact that they gave. I mean, that does not necessarily make buff passive skills, but to leave it as 8 \ 8 \ 4. It was the folly of developers, people are not to blame and it is not necessary to select.
Its why more and more gamers are less trusting of this company. The ones who will gain from this , this time, will loose out the next time it happens...then it wont seem so fair to em!
Just like in RL the more freedom to grow you give to someone will spawn explosive results...limited and controlled people will yield little to no results. Take how the American holiday "Thanksgiving" came about. The people followed the limited pattern of giving equal shares to everyone, no matter what they did for their assigned duty to the colony...some worked harder then others, not everyone has the same incentive to give it their all as they where all promised the same equal share...they began to starve and die off, so their leader decided to go against their investors original design for the venture and gave everyone their own plot of land to do with as they willed. They did what they where best at, and their success and ability to survive was based on their OWN effort they put into their work. Hence they yielded greatly and each had enough to trade with the other and they flourished...finally having something to be shipped back home with great profit and their stores where plentiful. It was such a great moment that even the 1st US President George Washington created a national holiday in honor of their success.
My point is, just let people grow in their own way and decided how far they wanna take the game, if we wanna grow past its design...it means you should keep up with us, we shouldnt have to wait on you, or none of us will get ahead!
EDIT: Those who understand why I said this, know who they are and who im addressing!
It sucks. I just looked at the two fleets my characters are in for 2 mins and a quick minute 4 minute ISE run. The fleet projects are simply at stand still because people aren't logging in and investing time and energy into the game(for the last 2 weeks so far). All of this is because of Cryptic current BS and future BS making the Cap too low and easy content. Heading back to log into Second Life.
Actually, I disagree with your observation.
I bet your friends left because of the long grind.
The only disagreement I have with what you posted is Dyson will not die out is is a dilithium fountain. I think Nukara and Romulan WILL most definitely die out, or see even further reduced use. Of the four systems we have now I go to Defera for Omega and Fleet Marks and Dyson for Dilithium. I have not set foot on Nukara with most of my toons because it is a terrible place. As for New Romulus the same thing, when chasing rabbits around becomes the best source of obtaining Romulan Marks, it is time to rethink the reward structure of the rest of the zone. Both of those places have been in serious need of expansion/rethinking since they launched.
The solution to this is to offer more choices to minimax... Right now nearly everything is Antiproton. It would be nice to get these older reputation gear comparable with the new seasons gear. My Romulan I use disruptors, because that's #2 currently behind antiproton. I would like my rep gear to least be comparable to latest so that I'm not forced to lemming to the best mini max gear.
It seems to me when alot of players are using one weapon type too much <beside the fact there are more feds than kdf> that the other weapon systems could use some balancing to make them a viable alternative.
"Star Trek: Online" has a few problems that are lingering.
(Random Thoughts)
First, the majority of the players are veteran. When you have a top heavy situation, the game ends up turning into an upside down triangle. As new players come into the game, such as myself, they have to level new avatars without the help of resource reserves. Other words, veteran players use established resources on one avatar, so they can bring another avatar up to the top. Anyone who says differently is a liar.
Second, the exchange content is overpriced, for a few specific reasons: (1) veteran players know that other established players have massive resources, (2) fleet holdings and reputation holdings have heavy resource requirements, and (3) people are storing items to save inventory space. Veteran players have learned to use the exchange, so they can exploit heavy energy credits from both established and new players.
Why are these issues?
Its all about player perspective and long grinds. According to one of the game leads, people are leaving because the Dyson system is too easy. As someone who has recently started STO, I can assure you that that is a false positive. I personally think many veteran players left due to the grind. Developers and veterans are also not playing STO from a new player's perspective.
Omega, Romulan, Tholian, Dyson, and Undine reputation systems were released separately; therefore, veteran players didn't have to level their first avatar through all five systems. Add in the four to five fleet holding systems (fleetbase, embassy, sphere, & mine), and you will see a virtually impossible hill to climb. I know, I know... People do not have to complete them all; however, players are trying to work through them anyway.
Repetitious actions are boring. Out of all the arguments against the grind, the repetitious nature of the mechanic is a turn off. Regardless about if you are a veteran or new player, completing the same tasks over and over again is daunting. People will leave STO for this reason alone.
Timegates from hell. Tackling the timegates for tier one thru three is rather easy. Once you hit the timegates for tier four and five, the game suddenly hits a sudden and long standstill. Why do I need to wait over a week to obtain items, so I can use them to carry out repetitious tasks? Why do I need to wait over a month to complete sets (new and old rep system), so I can use them after I hit a burn out? Why invest time, money, and effort into a game that gives you less results and rewards than an offline game? I can get more results and rewards, within a twenty hour period, from playing a game similar to "Dragon Age", "FallOut", "SimCity", and "BioShock".
How do you fix these issues? *shrugs* Who knows? I don't
Fleet holdings = Long term goals, long term projects, medium timegates, and fleet based rewards. Everything in the fleet holding should focus on long term gameplay.
Reputation Holdings = Casual goals, small term projects, short timegates, and individual rewards. Everything within the reputation system should focus on the individual and casual gameplay.
Players should be substantially rewarded for time, money, and effort. Ending a two hour session with twenty hour timers is a waste. Players need to feel rewarded and accomplished. ...and, that is why the current system does not work. If I have to wait through a twenty hour timer, while also grind endless resources, I might as well find something else to do.
Something seriously needs to change. Cryptic tweaking the reputation system is a good first step. I just hope they do not drop the ball.
Omega, Romulan, Tholian, Dyson, and Undine reputation systems were released separately; therefore, veteran players didn't have to level their first avatar through all five systems.
Correction, veteran players couldn't level all reps at the same time. New characters now have that option, but nobody is or has ever been required to do so.
If some people view the option of leveling reps simultaneously as a problem, that problem is in their own minds not the game. I certainly wouldn't want the rep systems to be artificially restricted just because some players don't have enough self-restraint to stick to a comfortable pace.
Add in the four to five fleet holding systems (fleetbase, embassy, sphere, & mine), and you will see a virtually impossible hill to climb.
No I don't. With an appropriately-sized fleet, holdings are very easy to build and mostly limited by time.
"Star Trek: Online" has a few problems that are lingering.
1/ Yes there are problems in STO many that have been around since beta. And Cryptic are trying to fix many of them, but it doesn't always go to plan. And as for using resources from one toon to help level another, well items such as marks can not be traded so each toon must grind them on an individual basis. And the other resources that can be moved around then yes they will use them. But the one question that you've not asked is "how have they got these resources in the first place?" The answer is simple we spent time and learned the game, and didnt expect everything handed to us on a plate!
2/ The exchange is driven by supply and demand, people cry out for a particular item thats in short supply the prices up, just like real life markets. If you dont have the ec to buy something then either run the missions to get it if its possible or go earn the ec (which means learning the game by the way)
3/ The grind as you put has been around since the first days of STo granted its gotten worse with the addition of reps and fleet holdings. But there's nothing to say you have to do either of these things. And as quoted before Veteran's like my self couldn't grind all the reps together because they were released individually. My main toon ground them all as they come out and my 5 alts followed after that. Then came the sponsorship tokens which made the grind easier (I managed to get all 6 toons through the Dyson rep in a little over 2 months with out to much effort)
I don't know if your in a fleet but if you are I'd like to see how its run because we only donate what we see fit and certain items like fleet marks and experience are strictly limited so that everyone has a fair chance of earning fleet credit from them And these fleet holdings are the main reason that items such as ship consoles are now as cheap as they are. I hail from a time in game when MKXII purples would cost well into the millions range.
4/ Repetitious actions can get boring after a while, so then you switch to something else. Set new challenges instead of running STF's how they were designed try running them with reduced man power or try a different ship build.
5/ Yes the down time between projects is a pain in the back side. But at least it gives you the breathing room to go gather some more resources for the next project. And it stops people charging through the projects/holdings within a matter of weeks. Anyone whos in a fleet with a Tier 3/4 star base will confirm what is needed for these projects and that it requires a collective effort to get them going.
6/ There are things that need changing but instead of cryptic going off half cocked they might want to try talking to a broader selection of the player base to get some ideas from them. Also the new players in the game need to stop acting like they should be entitled to have everything handed to them on a silver platter.
And on a personal note, I offer the author of the post I originally quoted in this post an invitation to join me in game for a few days or weeks and I'll gladly teach you the finer points of playing STO from the accumulation of resources such as EC, dilithium, fleet marks and credits. And then maybe you'll realize just how much time and effort these "Veteran" players invest in the game. And to many of us its the social interaction that bonds us together as players, fleet members and even friends.
So please feel free to drop me a PM/mail in game @sqwishedgrape
Dyson = T4.99 (done in two days) Romulan = T2.30 (done in four days) Nukara = T3 Omega = T4 Undine = T0
Once I get the reputation system to read as below, I will most likely move onto other aspects of the game.
Dyson = T5 Romulan = T3 Nukara = T3 Omega = T4 Undine = T3
I currently have no plans on making a second avatar.
I might completely skip the Undine.
I do not think racing every rep systems up to tier four and five should be a goal.
I also do not think the overall reputation rewards match player's time and effort.
STO is too repetitious.
Let's see here, first things first: All MMOs are repetitious. Hell, All Video Games are repetitious. That's just a fact of life. Only so many ways you can beat Bowser/Dr. Eggman/the forces of Hell
I do not think racing every rep systems up to tier four and five should be a goal.
You're right - racing every rep to the end shouldn't be a goal, but people do so anyway. Why? They want the shinys at the end.
I also do not think the overall reputation rewards match player's time and effort.
Are you kidding? With the exception of the Omega line, all of them dump Dil on you like crazy. And that's not counting the weapons and space gear. You're missing out on a lot if you're just going to act stubborn and not go the distance.
That's pretty much my thinking on the matter. We could leave it at 8/8/4 with tons of weak powers, but each individual power would be very marginal in terms of its impact, and would feel really unsatisfying to use. I know a number of players have echoed both the "leave us with 8/8/4 " and the "4/4/4 is fine" sentiments, and in this case I just know from experience with similar game systems that 4/4/4 will make for much more interesting and satisfying choices over the long haul..
Wonder what people think about this. After 218 pages on this thread 20 pages on another. This is Cryptic response. So, basically, long time running players get shafted and no matter how many reputation systems you do. You are locked to 4 space and 4 ground. Although someone might have worked up maybe 20 reputation systems with 80 space and 80 ground.
Yes, it's unpleasant to lose the use of powers. We know that, and we wish we'd launched with the system built for the scalability we desired from it. That's definitely a big takeaway here for us. But in terms of the system we're making here, 4/4/4 is the better design.
Then start working on the system to support end-users including content. Make the Borg and Undine harder for starters and introduce another superpower like Iconians.
I still see absolutely no reason to be stuck choosing 4 space and 4 ground at all times. Unless we are going to have an army of cadets get out in EV suits and fight in space battles or shuttles come down and fight for us on the ground it is a waste of reputation trait slots.
There has to be to a change. 8 of any rep passives with 4 active powers? maybe, 6 of rep passives with 4 active powers.
I don't know but 4 is just too limiting. After we get our "set" passives that are great to use all the time, and we know it will happen, cryptic will have to come up with some REALLY POWERFUL passives to surpass those to make us even bother changing them out. At least with a larger choice there may be a few passives that are chosen "just because" and when a new reputation comes out with a better passive there will be that incentive to do it.
Also, with the choice of ANY passive we can play how the game is designed. there is no ground battle in space just like there is no space battle on the ground so there is no reason to be forced to choose those traits when doing those types of missions. Especially, if you like making dedicated combat characters.
Dyson = T4.99 (done in two days) Romulan = T2.30 (done in four days) Nukara = T3 Omega = T4 Undine = T0
Once I get the reputation system to read as below, I will most likely move onto other aspects of the game.
Dyson = T5 Romulan = T3 Nukara = T3 Omega = T4 Undine = T3
I currently have no plans on making a second avatar.
I might completely skip the Undine.
I do not think racing every rep systems up to tier four and five should be a goal.
I also do not think the overall reputation rewards match player's time and effort.
STO is too repetitious.
It is a time consuming pain, but the passives where why I went after the Tiers. James T Cat needs the boost, I like to RP TOS era and STO isnt kind to that theme, so I need every advantage I can get for that toon! Too bad someone cried nerf. I think from now on (because I dont want them to forget it!!!) ANYONE, and EVERYONE, who asks for something to be reduced, nerfed or crys that something is overpowered should be given the mandatory title on the forum and in the game as "Ferengi Cryer" ...for those who dont get that reference, play through the new KDF missions, then think of the guy who demanded your stuff get nerfed when you get to floor him. XD
It is a time consuming pain, but the passives where why I went after the Tiers. James T Cat needs the boost, I like to RP TOS era and STO isnt kind to that theme, so I need every advantage I can get for that toon! Too bad someone cried nerf. I think from now on (because I dont want them to forget it!!!) ANYONE, and EVERYONE, who asks for something to be reduced, nerfed or crys that something is overpowered should be given the mandatory title on the forum and in the game as "Ferengi Cryer" ...for those who dont get that reference, play through the new KDF missions, then think of the guy who demanded your stuff get nerfed when you get to floor him. XD
Ive never demanded anyone loose anything. Rather the opposite! If youve earned it or paid for it, you should get it! So I dont get where your coming from, unless my previous statement offended you.
I still see absolutely no reason to be stuck choosing 4 space and 4 ground at all times. Unless we are going to have an army of cadets get out in EV suits and fight in space battles or shuttles come down and fight for us on the ground it is a waste of reputation trait slots.
There has to be to a change. 8 of any rep passives with 4 active powers? maybe, 6 of rep passives with 4 active powers.
I don't know but 4 is just too limiting. After we get our "set" passives that are great to use all the time, and we know it will happen, cryptic will have to come up with some REALLY POWERFUL passives to surpass those to make us even bother changing them out. At least with a larger choice there may be a few passives that are chosen "just because" and when a new reputation comes out with a better passive there will be that incentive to do it.
Also, with the choice of ANY passive we can play how the game is designed. there is no ground battle in space just like there is no space battle on the ground so there is no reason to be forced to choose those traits when doing those types of missions. Especially, if you like making dedicated combat characters.
Their idea for new reps is to put in very powerful items, as far as Undine reputation is any indicator.
So...you wont do it for the passives, you'll do it for the new powercreep shiny item.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Make another rep tree like the Dyson rep, and tie it to some sweet gear. And give it a couple of dil farm projects like Dyson has.
Ultimate awesome.
It's a simple idea based on common sense, actually.
However, we have a saying around here: "Go around your TRIBBLE***e to get to your elbow". It refers to making things more complicated than need be.
The developers could have took the simplest route and just dropped passives on all reps starting with Season Nine. But they went down the "stir up the s**t" path. Hence this dramafest/troll feeding frenzy.
Which wouldn't make sense to an outsider. BUT...as anybody who has been with this game more than six months knows, there is always a catch with Cryptic regarding ANY change that is supposed to be "beneficial" to the game/player.
The plan they have now doesn't have a damned thing to do with reducing so-called "power creep". That's just the sales pitch. They have other plans regarding passives and power slots in the future. We are just not privy to them.
PWE claims that the ARC software is designed to eliminate cheaters...
Just a thought on nerfs and redoing things to accommodate weak and spiteful players. When someone crys that something is overpowered or that another player is too powerful and shouldnt have this or that....isnt THAT cheating? To use those reckless claims to eliminate the competition?? Knowing full well that PWE will nerf on demand anything that gets more then one cry. That counts in my book as more then cheating, its borderline cyber bulling and using the company to do so...like the kids that always ran to taddle to the teacher, then snickered to themselves in the corner. (little brats!)
PWE claims that the ARC software is designed to eliminate cheaters...
Just a thought on nerfs and redoing things to accommodate weak and spiteful players. When someone crys that something is overpowered or that another player is too powerful and shouldnt have this or that....isnt THAT cheating? To use those reckless claims to eliminate the competition?? Knowing full well that PWE will nerf on demand anything that gets more then one cry. That counts in my book as more then cheating, its borderline cyber bulling and using the company to do so...like the kids that always ran to taddle to the teacher, then snickered to themselves in the corner. (little brats!)
I'd be careful with talk like that on here! I made a similar statement and got pounced by a couple of trolls!
But personally I do agree with you.
PWE claims that the ARC software is designed to eliminate cheaters...
Just a thought on nerfs and redoing things to accommodate weak and spiteful players. When someone crys that something is overpowered or that another player is too powerful and shouldnt have this or that....isnt THAT cheating? To use those reckless claims to eliminate the competition?? Knowing full well that PWE will nerf on demand anything that gets more then one cry. That counts in my book as more then cheating, its borderline cyber bulling and using the company to do so...like the kids that always ran to taddle to the teacher, then snickered to themselves in the corner. (little brats!)
So wait, I'm not sure I really follow the path of your commentary here.
You're saying that the Changes to the Reputation Powers being tested on Tribble right now are part of Cryptic having to push Arc on its playerbase to curb cheating. But that cheating isn't curbed because posters from the builds sub-forum are upset about A2B and Dulmur DOFFs and are using the devs to cyber bully the rest of the players by getting Spire Consoles and A2B builds nerfed?
If that's the case, then wow, this whole thing is far more insidious than I ever imagined.
System Designer Jeff "AdjudicatorHawk" Hamilton shares some of the new changes to Reputation Powers in this entry of the Season 9 News Dev Blog series.
Update: Additional information has been added to the OP Blog Post.
In the romulan rep system there are some sets that im trying to achieve and i dont want to lose them please keep them i only got the shield and i want the rest.
Comments
Y'know, what? At first this was funny, but after four months, it's tiresome.
Bye.
(raises paw)
...and I have made rational arguments.....but also irrational ones as well to keep things fresh!
idk capt. its feeling kinda hopeless and shutoff down here on the side that stands to loose, all the new stuff your promising seems to be only for the ones who surrender and install the arc software. The rep changes arent such a good idea, heres why..
People have already invested time and mats (dil most of all!) It was a real grind but we over came it and now have toons to stand up to the new enemys...the ones who are new or didnt invest into them yet dont need you to hold their hand, let em work for it like the rest of us. Its not mean, its fair! It can be done as we did it!! If players goals are pvp strength, they can build up to it like the ones who dominate it now....they got there honestly by trial and error, most likely took their losses to get to the top, if you want to stand on that hill climb the mountain like they did because its not for whiners, its for hardcore players that earned it!
It sucks. I just looked at the two fleets my characters are in for 2 mins and a quick minute 4 minute ISE run. The fleet projects are simply at stand still because people aren't logging in and investing time and energy into the game(for the last 2 weeks so far). All of this is because of Cryptic current BS and future BS making the Cap too low and easy content. Heading back to log into Second Life.
The passives were a motivation to overcome the grind, to let your character grow stronger, they are small bonuses but the thrill of earning them is amazing.
Only having 4 would completely ruin that as a few powers ends up being what everyone will take, and the rest dies off.
Just like in RL the more freedom to grow you give to someone will spawn explosive results...limited and controlled people will yield little to no results. Take how the American holiday "Thanksgiving" came about. The people followed the limited pattern of giving equal shares to everyone, no matter what they did for their assigned duty to the colony...some worked harder then others, not everyone has the same incentive to give it their all as they where all promised the same equal share...they began to starve and die off, so their leader decided to go against their investors original design for the venture and gave everyone their own plot of land to do with as they willed. They did what they where best at, and their success and ability to survive was based on their OWN effort they put into their work. Hence they yielded greatly and each had enough to trade with the other and they flourished...finally having something to be shipped back home with great profit and their stores where plentiful. It was such a great moment that even the 1st US President George Washington created a national holiday in honor of their success.
My point is, just let people grow in their own way and decided how far they wanna take the game, if we wanna grow past its design...it means you should keep up with us, we shouldnt have to wait on you, or none of us will get ahead!
EDIT: Those who understand why I said this, know who they are and who im addressing!
I bet your friends left because of the long grind.
The solution to this is to offer more choices to minimax... Right now nearly everything is Antiproton. It would be nice to get these older reputation gear comparable with the new seasons gear. My Romulan I use disruptors, because that's #2 currently behind antiproton. I would like my rep gear to least be comparable to latest so that I'm not forced to lemming to the best mini max gear.
It seems to me when alot of players are using one weapon type too much <beside the fact there are more feds than kdf> that the other weapon systems could use some balancing to make them a viable alternative.
(Random Thoughts)
First, the majority of the players are veteran. When you have a top heavy situation, the game ends up turning into an upside down triangle. As new players come into the game, such as myself, they have to level new avatars without the help of resource reserves. Other words, veteran players use established resources on one avatar, so they can bring another avatar up to the top. Anyone who says differently is a liar.
Second, the exchange content is overpriced, for a few specific reasons: (1) veteran players know that other established players have massive resources, (2) fleet holdings and reputation holdings have heavy resource requirements, and (3) people are storing items to save inventory space. Veteran players have learned to use the exchange, so they can exploit heavy energy credits from both established and new players.
Why are these issues?
Its all about player perspective and long grinds. According to one of the game leads, people are leaving because the Dyson system is too easy. As someone who has recently started STO, I can assure you that that is a false positive. I personally think many veteran players left due to the grind. Developers and veterans are also not playing STO from a new player's perspective.
Omega, Romulan, Tholian, Dyson, and Undine reputation systems were released separately; therefore, veteran players didn't have to level their first avatar through all five systems. Add in the four to five fleet holding systems (fleetbase, embassy, sphere, & mine), and you will see a virtually impossible hill to climb. I know, I know... People do not have to complete them all; however, players are trying to work through them anyway.
Repetitious actions are boring. Out of all the arguments against the grind, the repetitious nature of the mechanic is a turn off. Regardless about if you are a veteran or new player, completing the same tasks over and over again is daunting. People will leave STO for this reason alone.
Timegates from hell. Tackling the timegates for tier one thru three is rather easy. Once you hit the timegates for tier four and five, the game suddenly hits a sudden and long standstill. Why do I need to wait over a week to obtain items, so I can use them to carry out repetitious tasks? Why do I need to wait over a month to complete sets (new and old rep system), so I can use them after I hit a burn out? Why invest time, money, and effort into a game that gives you less results and rewards than an offline game? I can get more results and rewards, within a twenty hour period, from playing a game similar to "Dragon Age", "FallOut", "SimCity", and "BioShock".
How do you fix these issues? *shrugs* Who knows? I don't
Fleet holdings = Long term goals, long term projects, medium timegates, and fleet based rewards. Everything in the fleet holding should focus on long term gameplay.
Reputation Holdings = Casual goals, small term projects, short timegates, and individual rewards. Everything within the reputation system should focus on the individual and casual gameplay.
Players should be substantially rewarded for time, money, and effort. Ending a two hour session with twenty hour timers is a waste. Players need to feel rewarded and accomplished. ...and, that is why the current system does not work. If I have to wait through a twenty hour timer, while also grind endless resources, I might as well find something else to do.
Something seriously needs to change. Cryptic tweaking the reputation system is a good first step. I just hope they do not drop the ball.
Weak argument dude. Just because it's your opinion does not make it fact or truth.
Hard to argue against many of your substantive points, although you may have phrased them in a somewhat sweeping way.
Veteran players do get to leverage new toons, not all do that, but many of us do.
However, the gates on a given first toon aren't actually that onerous.
The race to level 50 is pretty quick, in MMO, terms, the real toon progression is after that.
So, as regards a first toons progression, it may not be as bad as you;re stating it.
Although, I do concede that subsequent toons benefit.
However, you seem to labour under the assumption that new toon also means new fleet.
It doesn't.
Nothing whatsoever prevents you from joining an established fleet.
Doesn't even need to be a maxed out fleet, not all vet players are in such.
I don't know what the numbers are, but I'd bet that a substantial proportion of vet players reside in less than max level fleets.
The game is somewhat top heavy, I'll grant you that, but its easier to progress than you're suggesting.
If some people view the option of leveling reps simultaneously as a problem, that problem is in their own minds not the game. I certainly wouldn't want the rep systems to be artificially restricted just because some players don't have enough self-restraint to stick to a comfortable pace.
No I don't. With an appropriately-sized fleet, holdings are very easy to build and mostly limited by time.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
1/ Yes there are problems in STO many that have been around since beta. And Cryptic are trying to fix many of them, but it doesn't always go to plan. And as for using resources from one toon to help level another, well items such as marks can not be traded so each toon must grind them on an individual basis. And the other resources that can be moved around then yes they will use them. But the one question that you've not asked is "how have they got these resources in the first place?" The answer is simple we spent time and learned the game, and didnt expect everything handed to us on a plate!
2/ The exchange is driven by supply and demand, people cry out for a particular item thats in short supply the prices up, just like real life markets. If you dont have the ec to buy something then either run the missions to get it if its possible or go earn the ec (which means learning the game by the way)
3/ The grind as you put has been around since the first days of STo granted its gotten worse with the addition of reps and fleet holdings. But there's nothing to say you have to do either of these things. And as quoted before Veteran's like my self couldn't grind all the reps together because they were released individually. My main toon ground them all as they come out and my 5 alts followed after that. Then came the sponsorship tokens which made the grind easier (I managed to get all 6 toons through the Dyson rep in a little over 2 months with out to much effort)
I don't know if your in a fleet but if you are I'd like to see how its run because we only donate what we see fit and certain items like fleet marks and experience are strictly limited so that everyone has a fair chance of earning fleet credit from them And these fleet holdings are the main reason that items such as ship consoles are now as cheap as they are. I hail from a time in game when MKXII purples would cost well into the millions range.
4/ Repetitious actions can get boring after a while, so then you switch to something else. Set new challenges instead of running STF's how they were designed try running them with reduced man power or try a different ship build.
5/ Yes the down time between projects is a pain in the back side. But at least it gives you the breathing room to go gather some more resources for the next project. And it stops people charging through the projects/holdings within a matter of weeks. Anyone whos in a fleet with a Tier 3/4 star base will confirm what is needed for these projects and that it requires a collective effort to get them going.
6/ There are things that need changing but instead of cryptic going off half cocked they might want to try talking to a broader selection of the player base to get some ideas from them. Also the new players in the game need to stop acting like they should be entitled to have everything handed to them on a silver platter.
And on a personal note, I offer the author of the post I originally quoted in this post an invitation to join me in game for a few days or weeks and I'll gladly teach you the finer points of playing STO from the accumulation of resources such as EC, dilithium, fleet marks and credits. And then maybe you'll realize just how much time and effort these "Veteran" players invest in the game. And to many of us its the social interaction that bonds us together as players, fleet members and even friends.
So please feel free to drop me a PM/mail in game @sqwishedgrape
Dyson = T4.99 (done in two days)
Romulan = T2.30 (done in four days)
Nukara = T3
Omega = T4
Undine = T0
Once I get the reputation system to read as below, I will most likely move onto other aspects of the game.
Dyson = T5
Romulan = T3
Nukara = T3
Omega = T4
Undine = T3
I currently have no plans on making a second avatar.
I might completely skip the Undine.
I do not think racing every rep systems up to tier four and five should be a goal.
I also do not think the overall reputation rewards match player's time and effort.
STO is too repetitious.
Let's see here, first things first: All MMOs are repetitious. Hell, All Video Games are repetitious. That's just a fact of life. Only so many ways you can beat Bowser/Dr. Eggman/the forces of Hell
You're right - racing every rep to the end shouldn't be a goal, but people do so anyway. Why? They want the shinys at the end.
Are you kidding? With the exception of the Omega line, all of them dump Dil on you like crazy. And that's not counting the weapons and space gear. You're missing out on a lot if you're just going to act stubborn and not go the distance.
Hey Cryptic. Grow something really because you make absolutely no sense. Instead of leaving 8/8/4.
Wonder what people think about this. After 218 pages on this thread 20 pages on another. This is Cryptic response. So, basically, long time running players get shafted and no matter how many reputation systems you do. You are locked to 4 space and 4 ground. Although someone might have worked up maybe 20 reputation systems with 80 space and 80 ground.
Then start working on the system to support end-users including content. Make the Borg and Undine harder for starters and introduce another superpower like Iconians.
There has to be to a change. 8 of any rep passives with 4 active powers? maybe, 6 of rep passives with 4 active powers.
I don't know but 4 is just too limiting. After we get our "set" passives that are great to use all the time, and we know it will happen, cryptic will have to come up with some REALLY POWERFUL passives to surpass those to make us even bother changing them out. At least with a larger choice there may be a few passives that are chosen "just because" and when a new reputation comes out with a better passive there will be that incentive to do it.
Also, with the choice of ANY passive we can play how the game is designed. there is no ground battle in space just like there is no space battle on the ground so there is no reason to be forced to choose those traits when doing those types of missions. Especially, if you like making dedicated combat characters.
It is a time consuming pain, but the passives where why I went after the Tiers. James T Cat needs the boost, I like to RP TOS era and STO isnt kind to that theme, so I need every advantage I can get for that toon! Too bad someone cried nerf. I think from now on (because I dont want them to forget it!!!) ANYONE, and EVERYONE, who asks for something to be reduced, nerfed or crys that something is overpowered should be given the mandatory title on the forum and in the game as "Ferengi Cryer" ...for those who dont get that reference, play through the new KDF missions, then think of the guy who demanded your stuff get nerfed when you get to floor him. XD
...poetic justice...or best we can manage
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Ive never demanded anyone loose anything. Rather the opposite! If youve earned it or paid for it, you should get it! So I dont get where your coming from, unless my previous statement offended you.
Their idea for new reps is to put in very powerful items, as far as Undine reputation is any indicator.
So...you wont do it for the passives, you'll do it for the new powercreep shiny item.
It's a simple idea based on common sense, actually.
However, we have a saying around here: "Go around your TRIBBLE***e to get to your elbow". It refers to making things more complicated than need be.
The developers could have took the simplest route and just dropped passives on all reps starting with Season Nine. But they went down the "stir up the s**t" path. Hence this dramafest/troll feeding frenzy.
Which wouldn't make sense to an outsider. BUT...as anybody who has been with this game more than six months knows, there is always a catch with Cryptic regarding ANY change that is supposed to be "beneficial" to the game/player.
The plan they have now doesn't have a damned thing to do with reducing so-called "power creep". That's just the sales pitch. They have other plans regarding passives and power slots in the future. We are just not privy to them.
Just a thought on nerfs and redoing things to accommodate weak and spiteful players. When someone crys that something is overpowered or that another player is too powerful and shouldnt have this or that....isnt THAT cheating? To use those reckless claims to eliminate the competition?? Knowing full well that PWE will nerf on demand anything that gets more then one cry. That counts in my book as more then cheating, its borderline cyber bulling and using the company to do so...like the kids that always ran to taddle to the teacher, then snickered to themselves in the corner. (little brats!)
I'd be careful with talk like that on here! I made a similar statement and got pounced by a couple of trolls!
But personally I do agree with you.
So wait, I'm not sure I really follow the path of your commentary here.
You're saying that the Changes to the Reputation Powers being tested on Tribble right now are part of Cryptic having to push Arc on its playerbase to curb cheating. But that cheating isn't curbed because posters from the builds sub-forum are upset about A2B and Dulmur DOFFs and are using the devs to cyber bully the rest of the players by getting Spire Consoles and A2B builds nerfed?
If that's the case, then wow, this whole thing is far more insidious than I ever imagined.
In the romulan rep system there are some sets that im trying to achieve and i dont want to lose them please keep them i only got the shield and i want the rest.