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Season 9 Dev Blog #5: Changes to Reputation Powers

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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    I have but in my experience that will do nothing. Last bunch of times I found "bugs" like this I bug reported it, posted in the tribble path notes, posted in the correct feedback thread and it was never fixed.

    Still not had a fix for missing fleet items, broken in game weapons after years why would this be any different? I know of one special mission weapon reward which has been broken for 4+ years. Despite bug reports, speaking directly to devs about it.

    That's certainly a relevant issue and solid feedback on the testing process. But, I mean, this is a new system on the test server and it's got bugs. So bug reporting this stuff is pretty much all we can do.

    The tooltip suggests that it's supposed to work for all damage. Testing shows it's not. So it's not like it's an intentional nerf to your torpedo boat. It's a bug.

    Which will probably go live. Yes.

    But maybe it won't. They are making some tweaks still so maybe you can get lucky.

    Still, it's not an intentional nerf in this situation. It's a bug and that's a bit different.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • khamseenairkhamseenair Member Posts: 2,640 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2014
    monodoso wrote: »
    Do we have to go through each rep system and redo our powers or are they going to be done for us by default with the new settings.

    You wont have to redo the reps, but it will select four random ground/space/active powers and you'll have to go in and pick which ones you actually would like to use. They are all listed under the 'Traits' tab on your character status window now (on Tribble).
    Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
  • nakedcrooknakedcrook Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    People are over reating when they say Oh this is just about making noobies perform like Vets. Look at how it works and think... all this does is help them out with some passives a bit earlier... They still won't have the nice choice of opitions you do even on the passives until they hit Tier 2 on at least 2 reps... the Tier 4 active stuff is still going to take them the same amount of time. As it does now.

    Simple solution would be to unlock the Reputation systems at an earlier level, and allow players to earn marks for the first time they complete a story mission. This can be done very easily. We have Borg missions. We have Romulan missions. We have missions with Terrans/Tholians. We have Dyson missions.

    this way new 50s have some progress on their reps, vets kerp what they have, and there will be no excuse not to do the reps.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,234 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    That's certainly a relevant issue and solid feedback on the testing process. But, I mean, this is a new system on the test server and it's got bugs. So bug reporting this stuff is pretty much all we can do.

    The tooltip suggests that it's supposed to work for all damage. Testing shows it's not. So it's not like it's an intentional nerf to your torpedo boat. It's a bug.

    Which will probably go live. Yes.

    But maybe it won't. They are making some tweaks still so maybe you can get lucky.

    Still, it's not an intentional nerf in this situation. It's a bug and that's a bit different.


    What about the Omega Graviton Amplifier:power That’s not a bug its unfairly designed. To quote my old post

    “Omega Graviton Amplifier:
    I feel this power is very unfair for torpedo and mine builds or projectile weapons. As I understand it the power was made to replace the Borg proc on the old weapons. But the original Borg proc was 100% chance on projectile weapons as you can only ever fire one projectile weapon at once unlike 8 energy weapons.

    I am not saying it should be 100% again but you effectively have up to 80 chances per cycle at 2.5% proc for energy weapons (8 weapons, 4 attacks each). Or 1 chance per cycle at 5% for projectile weapons as you can never fire more than 1 attack per cycle from torpedoes.

    This means you get massive amounts of procs from energy weapons and very rarely any from projectile weapons.

    I would like to see a dev comment on that as the power is unbalanced and this is the perfect time to make it fairly balanced.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Simple solution would be to unlock the Reputation systems at an earlier level, and allow players to earn marks for the first time they complete a story mission. This can be done very easily. We have Borg missions. We have Romulan missions. We have missions with Terrans/Tholians. We have Dyson missions.

    this way new 50s have some progress on their reps, vets kerp what they have, and there will be no excuse not to do the reps.
    What happens when we have 50 reps then?
  • nakedcrooknakedcrook Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    What happens when we have 50 reps then?

    What happens if we stop at 5 reps? Who is to say that we will have 50? There is no proof that we will even reach 10. We dont even know if we will reach 6. What comes after Undine? Dominion? Mirror? Cardassian? There is barely enough to get to 10, let alone 50.

    Very weak. Try again.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    What happens if we stop at 5 reps? Who is to say that we will have 50? There is no proof that we will even reach 10. We dont even know if we will reach 6. What comes after Undine? Dominion? Mirror? Cardassian? There is barely enough to get to 10, let alone 50.
    I asked a question. It's a very real possibility, as implied in this post. It seems like this change is in order for the devs to prepare for the future involving more and more reputations. Basically it's to keep someone who has a ton of reps completed from not being godly compared to someone who only has a new level 50 or just a few reps done.
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Very weak. Try again.
    Try what again...?
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    What happens if we stop at 5 reps? Who is to say that we will have 50? There is no proof that we will even reach 10. We dont even know if we will reach 6. What comes after Undine? Dominion? Mirror? Cardassian? There is barely enough to get to 10, let alone 50.

    Very weak. Try again.

    Uh, the very blog post this thread is tied to suggests there will be more than 5 reps.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • nakedcrooknakedcrook Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    I asked a question. It's a very real possibility, as implied in this post. It seems like this change is in order for the devs to prepare for the future involving more and more reputations. Basically it's to keep someone who has a ton of reps completed from not being godly compared to someone who only has a new level 50 or just a few reps done.

    Try what again...?

    A very real possibility that is implied...

    TRANSLATION: Something that might happen that we have not even started considering yet.

    Using things that don't exist as a justifcation to take things away from players that have rightfully and fully earned what they have is...really stupid. That is a very poor excuse.

    The devs should cap the reputations, not the number of passives we have. Stop at 5 reputations. Move on and make content that can challenge fully repped players. Be smarter with the design.

    Let me take a page out of your book. Lets say we do get 50 reps, with a total of 200 ground and 200 available traits. Do we stick to 4/4/4 or do we increase it? Is it power creep when we increase it? Do we nerf it again. How many times can they rob us of what we earned?

    Face it...this is a stupid idea from day 1. Stop making reps. Stop taking things from players. Start making content. Start thinking of better alternatives and end game. Give us higher difficulty, insentive to play higher difficulties, and reasons to fully rep. Encourage...not discourage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
  • nakedcrooknakedcrook Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Uh, the very blog post this thread is tied to suggests there will be more than 5 reps.

    I deal with facts...not ideas that could hypothetically happen.

    There are current 5 reps. Not 6. Not 7. Not 10. Not 50. I don't care if there COULD be 10 o 50. I care how many FACTUALLY exist. Stop talking about things that don't exist in order to take away things that do exist.

    Its like saying that we need to start limiting the number of cars people own today because when the love-powered flying car is invented...any day now...there will be too many cars in total. Cause...that flying car is coming soon...any day now it will be available to everyone for a reasonable price.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    A very real possibility that is implied...

    TRANSLATION: Something that might happen that we have not even started considering yet..

    There's *every* indication that Cryptic will continue with reps. For one, the devs pretty much based their entire current rep nerf on the notion that reps aren't 'scalable indefinitely.'

    TRANSLATION: They were at least thinking of *a great many* future reps.
    Using things that don't exist as a justifcation to take things away from players that have rightfully and fully earned what they have is...really stupid. That is a very poor excuse.

    Ah, it seems we have drilled to the bedrock of your denial: you're p*ssed over your current items getting nerfed, allegedly because they desire to push newer reps. The likelihood of new reps arriving, and you not liking their future introduction, are entirely unrelated, though.

    Very weak. Try again.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    A very real possibility that is implied...

    TRANSLATION: Something that might happen that we have not even started considering yet.

    Using things that don't exist as a justifcation to take things away from players that have rightfully and fully earned what they have is...really stupid. That is a very poor excuse.

    The devs should cap the reputations, not the number of passives we have. Stop at 5 reputations. Move on and make content that can challenge fully repped players. Be smarter with the design.

    Let me take a page out of your book. Lets say we do get 50 reps, with a total of 200 ground and 200 available traits. Do we stick to 4/4/4 or do we increase it? Is it power creep when we increase it? Do we nerf it again. How many times can they rob us of what we earned?

    Face it...this is a stupid idea from day 1. Stop making reps. Stop taking things from players. Start making content. Start thinking of better alternatives and end game. Give us higher difficulty, insentive to play higher difficulties, and reasons to fully rep. Encourage...not discourage.

    I think the move is stupid. I made a video of my ship on tribble. My holodeck build minus bridge officers, 2 decrease cannons recharge, 2 decrease torpedoes recharge, 1 subsystem decrease recharge. So, took out the bridge officers so no one can say I'm stacking Romulan bridge officers. I also stripped my tactical consoles to only 1 damage. Kept the passive skills which only 6 is used. active/space

    So, this was the result running this not seriously. I was able to pound some the new content and also take out cubes while being attacked by other cubes, spheres, and probes easily. I took direct hits and nothing major happen. When I died it was a stupid death which I can easily not repeat.

    I say re-instate the old level of reputation system with that as the base cap. Leave what people earned alone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9SjhX0Guq8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbZl6g6vZwE&feature=youtu.be

    On Holodeck if live, I add Jevonite to the mix and pretty much run through the content still. No stacking, no power creep, no I'm going get over. The content level is super low for elite.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    A very real possibility that is implied...

    TRANSLATION: Something that might happen that we have not even started considering yet.
    Do not put words in my mouth and call it a "translation". I meant what I posted. And assuming that they haven't considered something in order to further your own argument will get you nowhere.
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Using things that don't exist as a justifcation to take things away from players that have rightfully and fully earned what they have is...really stupid. That is a very poor excuse.
    It's not stupid considering that they are devs, and they probably have actual plans to implement those things.
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    The devs should cap the reputations, not the number of passives we have. Stop at 5 reputations. Move on and make content that can challenge fully repped players. Be smarter with the design.
    Well if that's not what they want for the game, or if they have the data that suggests that's not what's best for the game, we should probably learn to recognize that.
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Let me take a page out of your book. Lets say we do get 50 reps, with a total of 200 ground and 200 available traits. Do we stick to 4/4/4 or do we increase it? Is it power creep when we increase it? Do we nerf it again. How many times can they rob us of what we earned?
    If you want my opinion, I'd actually want to integrate reps into levels too. Levels under 50 are useless right now. Also, new reps should mean more episodes to get those reps from.

    But I recognize what the devs want, and that's what I'm trying to profess to you.
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Face it...this is a stupid idea from day 1. Stop making reps. Stop taking things from players. Start making content. Start thinking of better alternatives and end game. Give us higher difficulty, insentive to play higher difficulties, and reasons to fully rep. Encourage...not discourage.
    Yeah, I can face your opinion. I can even agree with it. But I'm not going to recognize your opinion as a fact.
  • dathranselanedathranselane Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I think unlocking Reputations at earlier level is a very good idea. It might have to wait until they add more 'starter' reputations, but it would be cool to see implemented down the line. Maybe you unlock one space/ground reputation trait slot at 20, then another at 30, then 40, then the remaining reps at 50 (or 60, after the level cap goes up).

    I've been hoping they would add 'faction' reputations for a while now (Federation and KDF). It makes sense that you should be able to improve your standing with the faction you're most intimately tied to. There's also plenty of room to add missions, and reputations, for many of the other prominent species/factions: Cardassian, Dominion, Mirror Universe/Terran, etc. I'd be willing to bet we see an Iconian reputation somewhere down the line (at level 60, perhaps). In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't already figured into the long-term plan.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    I deal with facts...not ideas that could hypothetically happen.

    Nothing hypothetical about it. They've said they're making more reputations. They've said they're doing this change because they're making more reputations.

    If you truly dealt in fact, you'd be more familiar with the blog post.
    Its like saying that we need to start limiting the number of cars people own today because

    I thought you dealt in fact, not internet analogies.

    EDIT:

    Reserving the right to NECRO this thread when the sixth reputation is announced so I can post this Image Link.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited March 2014
  • tousseautousseau Member Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Test ab.

    Lol, 35.8% all damage, 3.6% accuracy, and that is with 116 aux power level.
    Interesting....

    Oh mai... that seems like something I would like on my Vesta... :eek:
  • stormstrykestormstryke Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    With 200 pages of posts, this may have been said already.

    But even though this change is not good IMO, shouldn't each tier get 1 space and 1 ground trait? The higher the tiers the more it takes to get. So if you get to tier 1, you get 2 grounds but nothing for space.

    It would be better to swap one ground from T1 with one space from T2. Same with T3 and T4.
    _____

    Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
  • captainkirk300captainkirk300 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    To bad cryptic doesn't give a shi* about what we think
  • verline1verline1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I just like how people keep trying to say this does nothing to fix power creep now, and if anything makes some builds stronger.

    Yes, but then those of us primarily talking about creep are talking about down the line when we have far more reps then we do now, be it 8-10 total or 50 total, it was going to escalate. better to swallow the bitter pill now then down the road.

    and as for changing things that don't exist yet, its called planning, or in some cases preventative maintence, which this could be seen as.
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    verline1 wrote: »
    I just like how people keep trying to say this does nothing to fix power creep now, and if anything makes some builds stronger.

    Yes, but then those of us primarily talking about creep are talking about down the line when we have far more reps then we do now, be it 8-10 total or 50 total, it was going to escalate. better to swallow the bitter pill now then down the road.

    and as for changing things that don't exist yet, its called planning, or in some cases preventative maintence, which this could be seen as.

    Or, and I'm just throwing this out there......they could do both.

    Limit creep now and in the future.

    I think most people can see the issue oncoming with too many repuation passives.

    However, why not really start now?

    There have been a bunch of proposals to limit the buffing effect of this change.

    Most of them are relatively small tweaks to the existing system.

    Why just settle for dealing with power creep in the future when you could tackle it now as well?
  • verline1verline1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    Or, and I'm just throwing this out there......they could do both.

    Limit creep now and in the future.

    I think most people can see the issue oncoming with too many repuation passives.

    However, why not really start now?

    There have been a bunch of proposals to limit the buffing effect of this change.

    Most of them are relatively small tweaks to the existing system.

    Why just settle for dealing with power creep in the future when you could tackle it now as well?

    because a lot of the creep isn't form passives, they just add too it, and would have become worse. a lot of its doffs, weapons, ships, how some powers stack and work, and things like the new weapon consoles stacking onto that. that's were the vast majority of the current creep is rooted.

    nothing wrong with feeling and being powerful and skilled at the game, but its very easy to pick up a set of gear, doffs, boffs, and powers, and a ship per looking at the builds online, and go form fresh 50, to content is trivial in a exceedingly short amount of time especially if you have some real cash to blow to help the process long with EC or zen items.

    sure many of us would like them to address it all now, but seeing them be proactive about something that would become bad later is a good step, even it comes with a nerf and is unplesent because its a change to the status quo
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    verline1 wrote: »
    because a lot of the creep isn't form passives, they just add too it, and would have become worse. a lot of its doffs, weapons, ships, how some powers stack and work, and things like the new weapon consoles stacking onto that. that's were the vast majority of the current creep is rooted.

    nothing wrong with feeling and being powerful and skilled at the game, but its very easy to pick up a set of gear, doffs, boffs, and powers, and a ship per looking at the builds online, and go form fresh 50, to content is trivial in a exceedingly short amount of time especially if you have some real cash to blow to help the process long with EC or zen items.

    sure many of us would like them to address it all now, but seeing them be proactive about something that would become bad later is a good step, even it comes with a nerf and is unplesent because its a change to the status quo

    So, why buff the current passives?

    That makes about as much sense as throwing gasoline on a fire to put it out.

    you just wait now, it'll be so out later on......

    You're right too, for this to be the anti-power creep move we're told it is, more needs to happen.

    Things like doff stacking, OP ship consoles, a bunch of systems.

    But it could start with rep powers, why not?

    But in that case, you have to actually get a grip on them.

    The current proposal is not a nerf to the system, its a buff.

    It's not even creep neutral.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    So, why buff the current passives?

    Truthfully, to stave off even more forum meltdown would be my guess.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • furriesfurries Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    qjunior wrote: »
    I avoid fighting gainst the Borg on the ground like the plague. I hate the whole remodulation mechanic, it annoys me. I don't like things that get in the way of righteously slaughtering the enemies of the Federation*. So here is a vote against keeping the original power. :o


    Btw I'm fine with these changes, shouldn't be too crippling.



    * Which according to Starfleet 2409 is "everyone who might have valuable loot". :D


    "We are the Borg, You will fight us on the ground, Even if you resist us, You will soon be assimilated in space, Resistance is futile" Had to say that.
    _____________________________________________

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Fastest Hedgehog Alive
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Truthfully, to stave off even more forum meltdown would be my guess.

    In for a penny, i say.

    This is like taking a sticking plaster off.

    If it t'were to be done, tis better it were done quickly.
  • verline1verline1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    So, why buff the current passives?

    That makes about as much sense as throwing gasoline on a fire to put it out.

    you just wait now, it'll be so out later on......

    You're right too, for this to be the anti-power creep move we're told it is, more needs to happen.

    Things like doff stacking, OP ship consoles, a bunch of systems.

    But it could start with rep powers, why not?

    But in that case, you have to actually get a grip on them.

    The current proposal is not a nerf to the system, its a buff.

    It's not even creep neutral.

    it try's not too trivialize the powers by buffing their effects, but at the same moment limit their stacking by keeping us at 4.

    Lets be honest some of the buffs previously were very minor, too the point of not really being worth taking, does the buff to them making them meaningful decisions, debatable.

    I like to think that they were originally so small because there was slated to be a large number or rep systems, and the idea was you'd gain power by increments as you got done with reps, but it doesn't take long for that to scale to a point were its throwing things too far out of balance.

    So they limit us to 4, buff the choices to make them matter a bit more since they wont be stacking as much, and then spread around a lot of nice ones to make us mix and match, which we all know someone will crunch the numbers and find the "perfect build" set of powers. It happens with any system that has any sort of build though, someone will crunch all the numbers and come up with the single best arrangement. I think some if not many of the complaints are related too that, people have their "perfect" number crunched set up, and now its going to change, and they don't personally crunch the numbers so untill the ones that do re run everything their kinda stuck with what they have.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Truthfully, to stave off even more forum meltdown would be my guess.
    Nah... All the effects were increased but not equally. I think it was also a general rebalancing pass in an attempt to make them almost equally valuable.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • pwecaptainsmirkpwecaptainsmirk Member Posts: 1,167 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Hey gang,

    We have added some updated information regarding the Borg Rep System functions to the OP Blog Post. make sure to check out these additions.

    Thanks everybody! :)
    ~CaptainSmirk
  • ceekayzeroceekayzero Member Posts: 411 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Hey gang,

    We have added some updated information regarding the Borg Rep System functions to the OP Blog Post. make sure to check out these additions.

    Thanks everybody! :)
    ~CaptainSmirk

    So what will the new cost of a Mk XII Assimilated Set deflector be after these changes?
This discussion has been closed.