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Season 9 Dev Blog #5: Changes to Reputation Powers

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  • vonwraithvonwraith Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Sexist. Really. You had to go there.
    What are you talking about, Willis? You pulled that one out of your caboos. LMAO Stop making things up out of thin air.
  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Sexist. Really. You had to go there.

    WHAT. Oy...
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    if they listen to you guys we will have nothing left to look forward too except for the new paint job. (Flash Mob of Nerfers) Why is it so difficult for you to allow others to enjoy the game the way it was designed, when something helpful is added...why mess up the fun and achevements of others? Im just not understanding this at all, if its meant as a joke, let cryptic know it before they take an axe to the works!
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    vonwraith wrote: »
    It's ok, there are other games for you out there. :) Just stop thinking of yourself, you are not the only one that has spent hours on things.. Remember what happened to the Dread when it got nerfed? It's a game.. punch your computer all you want, it won't change a thing.

    No sexist.
  • jack24bau3rjack24bau3r Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Pugs are still god awful and take way too long to complete content.

    Good players are good and steam roll existing content.

    Both pugs and good players are playing on the same difficulty level.

    Make a new difficulty level that is harder, and restrict it to private queues.

    Good players will do the harder difficulty level because they don't pug often, desire a challenge, and desire the potential rewards that would accompany a higher difficulty.

    Pugs will still pug at the difficulty level they can queue at, or they will become better players, stop pugging, and run with fleet mates or stf channels.

    Adding a new difficulty level, which wouldn't affect the average player that public queues instead of private queues, would go over much smoother for all involved. Also the average player who only public queues could possibly never even realize the higher difficulty level since it just doesn't concern them.

    The added difficulty level could be scaled each season, or each half season if they continue to go down that route, to provide a scaling difficulty level.

    Rep passives could continue to be unlimited in nature, existing ones could be left alone, and players would have incentive to run future reputation systems.

    Currently, without new stellar passives or gear, that far out preforms what I currently have, there is no reason to run a single future reputation system.

    Adding such stellar passives and gear, would defeat the purpose of your reputation revamp in the first place, since it would create further power creep.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    vonwraith wrote: »
    It's ok, there are other games for you out there. :) Just stop thinking of yourself, you are not the only one that has spent hours on things.. Remember what happened to the Dread when it got nerfed? It's a game.. punch your computer all you want, it won't change a thing.

    Its funny you say that, because it was self serving complaints from ones like you that are attacking others and their work. There wouldnt even be words about it if people concerned themselves with their own business and just let people enjoy the game.

    EDIT: I also like the fleet elite hand phaser look for Caitian Picards TNG theme, its closer to a hand phaser on the shows....the dustbusters they had since the beginning are beyond lame, and i was glad to see the art finally replaced. They arent really that powerful but they look good and are better then using the starting one as I did before, to RP my toon in missions.
  • vonwraithvonwraith Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    catstarsto wrote: »
    Its funny you say that, because it was self serving complaints from ones like you that are attacking others and their work. There wouldnt even be words about it if people concerned themselves with their own business and just let people enjoy the game.

    EDIT: I also like the fleet elite hand phaser look for Caitian Picards TNG theme, its closer to a hand phaser on the shows....the dustbusters they had since the beginning are beyond lame, and i was glad to see the art finally replaced. They arent really that powerful but they look good and are better then using the starting one as I did before, to RP my toon in missions.


    Whoa! you got it wrong.. never complained.. figure I would put in my 2 cents after the fact they are doing it and let the whiners keep whining..

    BTW DEVS, I want a Caitian head mounted in my ready room. :P
  • khamseenairkhamseenair Member Posts: 2,640 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    No sexist.

    What are you on about. It's a common phrase, used to describe people (of both sexes) getting wound up about something. Nothing sexist about it.
    Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
  • vonwraithvonwraith Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    vonwraith wrote: »
    A Message from Starfleet....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jnaC-TxQbc

    You can grow up now.
  • vonwraithvonwraith Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    You can grow up now.

    Make me! I'm a damn Toys R' Us kid. :P
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    vonwraith wrote: »
    Make me! I'm a damn Toys R' Us kid. :P

    You sound like it. Probably one of the people complaining about power creep without even learning game mechanics, putting in the time to rank up the reputation system, or even making a decent build to go against Romulans.
  • vonwraithvonwraith Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    You sound like it. Probably one of the people complaining about power creep without even learning game mechanics, putting in the time to rank up the reputation system, or even making a decent build to go against Romulans.


    Try reading back a little.. might help you.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    vonwraith wrote: »
    Try reading back a little.. might help you.

    I would read back but honestly I see a whole bunch of upset people and logging on I am seeing fleets becoming inactive because of this upcoming change.

    All I see is, Cryptic ignoring some of the player base to make others happy. Just because their lack of competence of updating this outdated non-scalable game engine.

    Anyway, back to Second Life. I want to do some 3D modeling, game engine asset creation, and maybe some coding if I get the chance. Since, I will not be on STO tonight knowing the upcoming changes.
  • vonwraithvonwraith Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I would read back but honestly I see a whole bunch of upset people and logging on I am seeing fleets becoming inactive because of this upcoming change.

    All I see is, Cryptic ignoring some of the player base to make others happy. Just because their lack of competence of updating this outdated non-scalable game engine.

    To bad then, I won't repeat myself.

    This is an ever evolving game. Should have known that. If you lay stagnit and only cater to long time players, like myself, the game will die. No one wants that. If you want a new game engine then this STO will be gone and you would have to start fresh on a new updated one. See my point? My ships and toons have been nerfed, buffed, redone. just roll with it or find another game.

    Let the Whiners whine.. they are weak. I look forward to see what goes on and eventually see if they add the Iconians in.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    vonwraith wrote: »
    To bad then, I won't repeat myself.

    This is an ever evolving game. Should have known that. If you lay stagnit and only cater to long time players, like myself, the game will die. No one wants that. If you want a new game engine then this STO will be gone and you would have to start fresh on a new updated one. See my point? My ships and toons have been nerfed, buffed, redone. just roll with it or find another game.

    Let the Whiners whine.. they are weak. I look forward to see what goes on and eventually see if they add the Iconians in.

    There is a difference between a gaming going forwards or backwards. Sadly, it looks like it's going forward but it's going backwards.

    Cryptic already mentioned this game engine is not scalable. They also won't make new content that will match the number of reputations systems they have. Honestly, the Borg should be harder. One cube technically took out whole fleets of ships. Undine was just as hard.

    If STO Evolved
    1. The Borg and Undine should be difficult to beat even on elite. The Tactical Cube and Unimatrix should almost be unstoppable. The same as Undine. There should be appearances of a super faction Iconians.
    2. PVP matchup's should be level matching. Now skill matching, there shouldn't be.
    3. There would be a fleet holding for a colony. The fleet would be able to choose a fleet base location.
    4. Once a fleet project becomes top Tier everything. They should have a final tier project to become part of STO map.
    5. Additionally, fleet project colonies should open up unchartered territory.
    6. There should be a higher elite difficulty.

    So, yes. Evolving, I can see that. Change TRIBBLE players, no. I cannot accept. So, Cryptic had this for 3 years +.

    They didn't have the foresight to start building a more evolved game engine years ago and start beta testing a core of a new system two years ago.

    They really need to learn from Eve Online. Making more evolved changes would require players to build up the reputatoin system.

    If the Borg was as powerful as they should be the passive skills would be needed. Not 4 passive skills.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Sexist. Really. You had to go there.
    Only one sex wears underwear now...?

    Am... am I being weird by wearing underwear? :(
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    vonwraith wrote: »
    To bad then, I won't repeat myself.

    This is an ever evolving game. Should have known that. If you lay stagnit and only cater to long time players, like myself, the game will die. No one wants that. If you want a new game engine then this STO will be gone and you would have to start fresh on a new updated one. See my point? My ships and toons have been nerfed, buffed, redone. just roll with it or find another game.

    Let the Whiners whine.. they are weak. I look forward to see what goes on and eventually see if they add the Iconians in.

    I imagine if there are still players by this time next year we will probably be fighting Dr whileys machines and flying in the latest none trek ship. The new changes are for the new players, the old players dont seem to have a say in any of it.

    My mission to save the game is growing really grave, what will they hit us with next? It feels like they are hoping to run off the people who have been here for a long time, because the new ones will be easier to control and bribe, accepting anything they set in front of them.

    ARC controlled future of STO
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Only one sex wears underwear now...?

    Am... am I being weird by wearing underwear? :(

    No. I just don't like how he used the term. He was saying it to be mean and demoralizing.
  • schmedickeschmedicke Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I have a solution that will keep everyone happy even Cryptic. Keep all reps and passives as they are now. Make the new reps all about gear and doffs. No new passives or traits. Let me use the Dyson rep as an example.

    T1- unlock rep specific Doffs ground/space (like voth tooled to fighting Voth), rep uni console.
    T2 - unlock rep deflector, rep ground weapon, rep store sci consules
    T3 - unlock rep eng, torp, ground armor, rep store eng consoles
    T4 - unlock rep shield ground/space, space weapon, rep store weapons/tac consules
    T5 - unlock rep boff, rep ship (like the dyson event ship), sing/warp core.

    This means no one looses anything, no new power creep, there is incentive to do the reps. People would gladly pay for more new doff, boff, ship slots. C-Store ship variants. No major server overhaul. It is simple and perfect.
  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    No. I just don't like how he used the term. He was saying it to be mean and demoralizing.

    Mean and...

    Okay, seriously: Back away from the computer and take a good long look at yourself. If you're getting that upset over a common phrase, then either you've hooked onto things way too seriously or I'm starting to think you're just a troll. I'm hoping it's the latter, seriously, because a lot of this stuff is seriously getting out of hand.
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    There is a difference between a gaming going forwards or backwards. Sadly, it looks like it's going forward but it's going backwards.

    Cryptic already mentioned this game engine is not scalable. They also won't make new content that will match the number of reputations systems they have. Honestly, the Borg should be harder. One cube technically took out whole fleets of ships. Undine was just as hard.

    If STO Evolved
    1. The Borg and Undine should be difficult to beat even on elite. The Tactical Cube and Unimatrix should almost be unstoppable. The same as Undine. There should be appearances of a super faction Iconians.
    2. PVP matchup's should be level matching. Now skill matching, there shouldn't be.
    3. There would be a fleet holding for a colony. The fleet would be able to choose a fleet base location.
    4. Once a fleet project becomes top Tier everything. They should have a final tier project to become part of STO map.
    5. Additionally, fleet project colonies should open up unchartered territory.
    6. There should be a higher elite difficulty.

    So, yes. Evolving, I can see that. Change TRIBBLE players, no. I cannot accept. So, Cryptic had this for 3 years +.

    They didn't have the foresight to start building a more evolved game engine years ago and start beta testing a core of a new system two years ago.

    They really need to learn from Eve Online. Making more evolved changes would require players to build up the reputatoin system.

    If the Borg was as powerful as they should be the passive skills would be needed. Not 4 passive skills.

    That would require... *gasp* a lot of work! Cryptic do not like that much work!

    Their "oooh but new players" argument is invalid. Why?

    Because....new players dont know about reputation system. Do you really think they'll research up the game's reputation system before deciding to play? They'll either like the game due to its early level mechanics, or they wont and they wont ever get to level 50 to begin with.

    They say new players got it too hard to get reputations done. Than make the reputations easier to do, DUH! Not nerf it..... le sigh.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    vonwraith wrote: »
    To bad then, I won't repeat myself.

    This is an ever evolving game. Should have known that. If you lay stagnit and only cater to long time players, like myself, the game will die. No one wants that. If you want a new game engine then this STO will be gone and you would have to start fresh on a new updated one. See my point? My ships and toons have been nerfed, buffed, redone. just roll with it or find another game.

    Let the Whiners whine.. they are weak. I look forward to see what goes on and eventually see if they add the Iconians in.

    This is just a response to the evolving game line
    Definition of Evolving or Evolve on Webster

    evolve
    verb \i-ˈv
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Cryptic already mentioned this game engine is not scalable.

    What? When did they say that, and what did they actually say?

    They said they weren't going to build a new engine. They are not going to drastically change how the game works. They said that they have to maintain a certain degree of backward compatibility, and by inference their core code has to be compatible across all of the Cryptic games.

    But I've never heard them say that the code is static and can't be changed.
    They also won't make new content that will match the number of reputations systems they have.

    Not sure what you mean by that.

    If STO Evolved
    1. The Borg and Undine should be difficult to beat even on elite. The Tactical Cube and Unimatrix should almost be unstoppable. The same as Undine. There should be appearances of a super faction Iconians.

    I can agree with this, but the only thing that this has to do with game evolution is adjusting Borg and Undine for balance and power creep.

    The other points you made are subjective... they are certainly not required to evolve the game, they're just examples of changes you'd like to see.


    Consider that the same core game engine is running three different games, not to mention anything they might have in development. Gameplay is similar, but not identical.

    Comparing that to something like EVE, which has an engine that only needs to support one game, is comparing apples to oranges. I imagine if you tried to port that code (EVE) over to a different game, it would be a trainwreck worse than Cryptic's worst nightmare (Season 4).

    Cryptic's code is certainly not without its' issues, but it is versatile and they're constantly improving it across three different games. I'm not going to get into a debate about whether that qualifies as 'evolution'.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    zelzxe wrote: »
    After playing around on tribble, the 4 active, 4 passive, 4 usable is TRIBBLE, the power changes are TRIBBLE. The way you get rep is fine but everything else is TRIBBLE.

    Leveling reps was as much about passives as it was gear (and some reps it was just about the passives). Why should we suffer for leveling reps by having to pick a handful of the time-consuming-earned passives we have.

    Why should we even both leveling reps at all with this change? What is Cryptic thinking? They need to leave the rep passives as is, the more time you spend working reps the more passives you should have, PERIOD. Something about more time spent in game = more powerful (Like it is now). The change is like this "wah, i'm a new 50 and want to be just as good as people who have been 50 for a long time, they have all those powers i want, wah"

    New rep ability slotting = telling veterans "All that work you did, TOO BAD!!!"
    As it is now = "Thank you for continuing playing this game, your reward is you are more powerful since you have spent more time."

    I could go on but it would just get redundant.

    Okay. Let me describe a situation I just encountered:

    Mirror Incursion Event. Decided to bring my "neglected" Fed Engie in his Gal-X through this. His neglect was major - he only had one rep line done - Dyson via a sponsorship token and the dailies in his cloaked Galaxy-X. Gearwise, he's okay for "old school" - full slate of [borg] modifier phasers, Borg quantum torp fore, Transphasic aft. 3 parts of the Dyson rep set (Core, Engine, Shields) and the Assimilated Mk XI deflector.
    Goal was to run up Nukara rep with the mirror rewards, and to run up Omega rep with the 500 marks still sitting on his account from the ancient conversion box - both sponsored to make this quick and painless.
    First days of the event, he couldn't even pop a frigate in the time it took a new spawn to build. Before I knew it, he was getting overwhelmed with 10 frigates and a pair of Typhoons because I was left alone to try to close 2 rifts. Ship would pop under that level (15 beams worth) of withering fire...
    Twoard the end of the event, I had T4 in both Omega and Nukara. Offensive space passives across the board. He could actually pop frigate waves with a couple of BFaWs, and close a rift if the RNG gods were somewhat useful. Because I could take out a whole wave, if things were going downhill I could at least BFaW spam to keep space clear of frigate-spam leaving me to tank 2-3 typhoons, a feat the Galaxy-X is remarkably capable of.

    Now, if a neglected and semi-geared character that has the European Launch accolade on him has a "problem" with "current normal event content", imagine how bad it would be for a fresh mint L50 still running a rainbow Mk X set with a dual cannon to add skittle flavor to it - remember, taste the rainbow, blast the rainbow... :P

    Meanwhile, my Fed Sci Main in his Vesta was rolling over the same content, popping typhoons in about 2 sets of CSV/Torp spread, and doing his usual science-officer "frigate pack? What frigate pack?"...

    Now, to tie this into your "vets in old system = reward for time played" line, how many of these "well equipped" vets were complaining that Incursion was so easy that they had 3 to 5 minutes of wait in their mission? Or are you planning on requesting the Devs close off all teaming events from "new" players till they do the month(s) of grind that are (or will eventually be) required to match the vets?

    And, before you even attempt to go there, Elite vs Normal should be 25% gear, 75% skill. Not the place where "long time vets" go for their challenge while the "newbies" are grinding out normals for less payout...
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    bluegeek wrote: »
    What? When did they say that, and what did they actually say?

    They said they weren't going to build a new engine. They are not going to drastically change how the game works. They said that they have to maintain a certain degree of backward compatibility, and by inference their core code has to be compatible across all of the Cryptic games.

    But I've never heard them say that the code is static and can't be changed.



    Not sure what you mean by that.




    I can agree with this, but the only thing that this has to do with game evolution is adjusting Borg and Undine for balance and power creep.

    The other points you made are subjective... they are certainly not required to evolve the game, they're just examples of changes you'd like to see.


    Consider that the same core game engine is running three different games, not to mention anything they might have in development. Gameplay is similar, but not identical.

    Comparing that to something like EVE, which has an engine that only needs to support one game, is comparing apples to oranges. I imagine if you tried to port that code (EVE) over to a different game, it would be a trainwreck worse than Cryptic's worst nightmare (Season 4).

    Cryptic's code is certainly not without its' issues, but it is versatile and they're constantly improving it across three different games. I'm not going to get into a debate about whether that qualifies as 'evolution'.

    At the minimum they should make the factions as powerful as they should be and just maybe they don't have to limit the reputation system to a measly 4 traits / 4 active.
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Maybe once this revamp is a smashing success according to the One Metric to Rule Them All™, regardless of irrelevant player feedback, they can take the war on power creep to the next logical level following the same tried-and-true pattern:

    Change all Commander BOff stations to Lt. Commander, and buff some of the Lt. Commander BOff powers. Allow respeccing BOff powers free anytime one isn't in combat. Just like the Rep powers, it wouldn't be taking anything away because, y'know, buffed some... :rolleyes:
  • blassreiterusblassreiterus Member Posts: 1,294 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    No. I just don't like how he used the term. He was saying it to be mean and demoralizing.
    Wrong, you took it that way. He's not at fault for how you perceived the comment.
    Star Trek Online LTS player.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Maybe once this revamp is a smashing success according to the One Metric to Rule Them All™, regardless of irrelevant player feedback, they can take the war on power creep to the next logical level following the same tried-and-true pattern:

    Change all Commander BOff stations to Lt. Commander, and buff some of the Lt. Commander BOff powers. Allow respeccing BOff powers free anytime one isn't in combat. Just like the Rep powers, it wouldn't be taking anything away because, y'know, buffed some... :rolleyes:

    are you asking for it go go back to the way it was the first year? I like having the advantage over the npcs. The hero of the show shouldnt be under powered. (I.E the players who like to RP Trek themes) ...and that dustbuster phaser pistol was murder to use!
  • khamseenairkhamseenair Member Posts: 2,640 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Only one sex wears underwear now...?

    Am... am I being weird by wearing underwear? :(

    Yes, yes you are! You're disgusting :P
    Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
This discussion has been closed.