The only kind of PVP I would be interested in is DCUO Legends style PVP. Best PVP experience I've ever had in an MMO ever.
No gear, no builds, no power creep, no cheese. None of that. Any uber elite epeen gear you have doesn't work in there. No fancy OP builds either. You pick a character that appeals to you and you get a preset build of powers attached to that character. That's all you get to work with. If you lose, the other guy was just better than you.
The characters were decently balanced too. The starter characters you got were actually pretty good and could keep pace with the others just fine. Some actually opted to use those instead of going for others.
At first, I got my rear handed to me. But instead of having to go redo gear and builds and all that TRIBBLE, I just had to learn how to play the character better. Eventually I started winning at 1v1s. Then I won my first 2v1. Two guys came at me head on and I whooped 'em. Not because I had better gear, not because I had a better build. I beat them because I knew how to properly time my blocks, attacks, and block breakers. And it was grand.
So throw away the builds, the gear, the rep passives, all that noise. That's the kind of PVP I'll play.
What if there was a random match mode where you did not know if you where getting a space or ground match and where assigned teams at random. That would turn tables and even teams as well as encourage people to find balance in their skill points opposed to going all one or the other. I think it could encourage the general community to play.
Or even pvp game with multiple pve objectives that would cause a team to have to split up and play smarter opposed to simply marauding as a group who only knows how to focus fire.
The Q would not be so bad if it were not for the pvp fleets and pvp extremists running the general community away.
True, but i might add, a lot of people are "scared" of pvp too because, getting shown how bad you really are at something, is an experience most people avoid like the plague.
Personally i dont mind loosing in pvp, each loss just helps to become a better player, but most people are afraid of challenges... (goes for "uber" equipped premade teams which beat on pug teams too, last pvp centric game i played with friends, we stopped using the pub que, because its no fun to steamroll randoms, for nobody)
Problem is, if we simply look at other games which have an pvp focus, and which have found
a solution to the problem of people beeing afraid of beeing bad and having everybody know it, we see that the general best working solution was (i take two examples, other genres, but the problem persists) to take away anything that would people make feel "bad" about losing.
Starcraft and League of Legends come to mind, both very pvp centric, both took away the count on games lost, and keept only the wins in your statistics, which lead to more and more people playing pvp instead of just vs. AI.
If you wanted to get this concept into STO, one Solution *could* be (emphasizing the could) to put people anonymously into the matches, meaning, dont show the players names or @ handles, just use the ship type, and maybe put in an "lifetime ships destroyed" counter somwhere, should help aleviate the problem of people beeing afraid of losing.
I think it could encourage the general community to play.
I think you underestimate (or perhaps "overestimate" would be more correct) gamers. The ROFLstompers would just take their cookie-cutter builds and keep bailing out until they got the kind of match they want.
Nevermind the other problem with random maybe-space, maybe-ground queues: I don't walk into McDonald's and day "Give me a random soft drink, I don't care just pick one" for much the same reason I wouldn't enter a "random missions" queue.
I think you underestimate (or perhaps "overestimate" would be more correct) gamers. The ROFLstompers would just take their cookie-cutter builds and keep bailing out until they got the kind of match they want.
there are 2 things that would likely at least somewhat increase pvp numbers
lower the costs of fleet gear, so that your average casual player can get it without grinding forever OR make a separate easy to get pvp focused gear that would be equivalent to a blueish one in pve(kinda like WoW)
add the options to queue in pvp by yourself and ONLY face people who queued by themselves, rather than as a team, like dota 2 does, that would destroy the effect premades have in pvp.
there are 2 things that would likely at least somewhat increase pvp numbers
lower the costs of fleet gear, so that your average casual player can get it without grinding forever OR make a separate easy to get pvp focused gear that would be equivalent to a blueish one in pve(kinda like WoW)
add the options to queue in pvp by yourself and ONLY face people who queued by themselves, rather than as a team, like dota 2 does, that would destroy the effect premades have in pvp.
Why is it that the so called PvP community actually want the PvE community to PvP? Why do they feel that it's so important and special that we should? :cool:
add the options to queue in pvp by yourself and ONLY face people who queued by themselves, rather than as a team, like dota 2 does, that would destroy the effect premades have in pvp.
Why is it that the so called PvP community actually want the PvE community to PvP? Why do they feel that it's so important and special that we should? :cool:
Because even the PvP community knows the PvP community is the worst thing about PvP? :eek:
No fleet gets hurt over posts like Hammer... They do not want to admit that the pvp fleets, on ground especially, have had such a negative impact on the Q as to almost kill it completely.
Because even the PvP community knows the PvP community is the worst thing about PvP? :eek:
lol Wont work, they'd just get the PvE griefers/trolls moving across for double the fun... Although, to be honest, I highly suspect they're the same people anyway.
Why is it that the so called PvP community actually want the PvE community to PvP? Why do they feel that it's so important and special that we should? :cool:
Bi Shonen does not represent the PvP community, despite what he may think.
Lousy community, abusive chat, and as close as P2W as you can get in this game.
If there was some sort of PVP with standard builds going into the match i might consider it, but as it is today they may as well remove it from the game.
the game has standards builds....is called FAW a2b cruiser.
Bi Shonen does not represent the PvP community, despite what he may think.
Superdude here is part of a cheese flinging pvp fleet. This thread is not for the pvp minority but to gather the opinions on pvp from the pve community in hope of finding a way to make pvp more desirable for the majority of STO and not just a proving ground for the minority of players who have nearly destroyed the interest in pvp by the general community completely.
I don't trust queue numbers and average wait time in the box as there's a bug I've noticed on occasion to where it always shows zero and empty even though its not.
Because most of us do not have the best everything. You either have to PVP hardcore and spend countless hundreds of millions of EC because to be a casual PVPer you get smashed.
I PVP within my fleet to get some practice but none of us I believe have all the best equipment possible.
I have the resources to buy those 20-35 million EC consoles, I just dont think its worth it for a marginal increase and invest my EC elsewhere.
PVP should be broken down into some kind of skill level so equally equipped or matched people could fight each other. I have no interest in fighting someone flying a JHAS with
5 MKXII purple tactical consoles.
PVP should be broken down into some kind of skill level so equally equipped or matched people could fight each other. I have no interest in fighting someone flying a JHAS with
5 MKXII purple tactical consoles.
Very good point. We need a ranking system to separate players.
Superdude here is part of a cheese flinging pvp fleet. This thread is not for the pvp minority but to gather the opinions on pvp from the pve community in hope of finding a way to make pvp more desirable for the majority of STO and not just a proving ground for the minority of players who have nearly destroyed the interest in pvp by the general community completely.
You need to understand something- to a PvP-disinterested PvE player, one PvP aficionado sermonizing for more cannon fodder looks just like any other PvP aficionado sermonizing for more cannon fodder.
That was done already, in the other thread already linked to.
The concensus was that we dislike the fact that there are so many more trolls and flamers present in PvP than in PvE (NPCs and mobs don't mock you if you lose, or cry hax when you win for example...), and that it gets renamed to trash talking and is considered normal there.
Give this thread enough time, and they will prove our point for us when it, as the other one, falls down into a mire of trolling, flaming and 1 upmanship. Even the denials of elitism were accompanied by attacks on PvE players...
Seems that you've already started to notice this yourself. My advice, give up, they wont let it go, ever. lol EVERY MMO I have played has had the same problem in it's PvP, especially those where the focus has been PvP. PvP attracts people who feel a need to prove some form of superiority over others, end of story.
Oh and for the record, one of my all time fave MMOs, from a gameplay perspective, was a PvP one. I quit when I finally got sick of the trolling, flaming and basically antisocial behaviour. There's enough of that in the real world, without looking for it in games too.
Which would be more helpful, or would both or these things have a positive result;
-A ranking/ladder system to separate unskilled players from skilled players
-A mode where players who Q alone will fight in a match with other players who Q alone and not have to face a premade team
First just encourages elitism even more.
Second will just mean facing individual trolls, and they will still find a way to get their team in.
Played games that did those exact things. They even managed to find a way to trick the mechanics of the queue system to put their team in at one time. If you were really unlucky, one of them would end up on YOUR team.... Ever been on a team where one guy stripped his armour of and then let his mates kill him over and over and over? Not fun...
Comments
No gear, no builds, no power creep, no cheese. None of that. Any uber elite epeen gear you have doesn't work in there. No fancy OP builds either. You pick a character that appeals to you and you get a preset build of powers attached to that character. That's all you get to work with. If you lose, the other guy was just better than you.
The characters were decently balanced too. The starter characters you got were actually pretty good and could keep pace with the others just fine. Some actually opted to use those instead of going for others.
At first, I got my rear handed to me. But instead of having to go redo gear and builds and all that TRIBBLE, I just had to learn how to play the character better. Eventually I started winning at 1v1s. Then I won my first 2v1. Two guys came at me head on and I whooped 'em. Not because I had better gear, not because I had a better build. I beat them because I knew how to properly time my blocks, attacks, and block breakers. And it was grand.
So throw away the builds, the gear, the rep passives, all that noise. That's the kind of PVP I'll play.
Mine Trap Supporter
"oh whered my ship go?"
Or even pvp game with multiple pve objectives that would cause a team to have to split up and play smarter opposed to simply marauding as a group who only knows how to focus fire.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Yeah, well unless you do their "cookie cutter", your other builds will be nerfed because they cry so much about nerfing new stuff they think is OP.
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True, but i might add, a lot of people are "scared" of pvp too because, getting shown how bad you really are at something, is an experience most people avoid like the plague.
Personally i dont mind loosing in pvp, each loss just helps to become a better player, but most people are afraid of challenges... (goes for "uber" equipped premade teams which beat on pug teams too, last pvp centric game i played with friends, we stopped using the pub que, because its no fun to steamroll randoms, for nobody)
Problem is, if we simply look at other games which have an pvp focus, and which have found
a solution to the problem of people beeing afraid of beeing bad and having everybody know it, we see that the general best working solution was (i take two examples, other genres, but the problem persists) to take away anything that would people make feel "bad" about losing.
Starcraft and League of Legends come to mind, both very pvp centric, both took away the count on games lost, and keept only the wins in your statistics, which lead to more and more people playing pvp instead of just vs. AI.
If you wanted to get this concept into STO, one Solution *could* be (emphasizing the could) to put people anonymously into the matches, meaning, dont show the players names or @ handles, just use the ship type, and maybe put in an "lifetime ships destroyed" counter somwhere, should help aleviate the problem of people beeing afraid of losing.
I think you underestimate (or perhaps "overestimate" would be more correct) gamers. The ROFLstompers would just take their cookie-cutter builds and keep bailing out until they got the kind of match they want.
Nevermind the other problem with random maybe-space, maybe-ground queues: I don't walk into McDonald's and day "Give me a random soft drink, I don't care just pick one" for much the same reason I wouldn't enter a "random missions" queue.
A leaver penalty would stop that.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
lower the costs of fleet gear, so that your average casual player can get it without grinding forever OR make a separate easy to get pvp focused gear that would be equivalent to a blueish one in pve(kinda like WoW)
add the options to queue in pvp by yourself and ONLY face people who queued by themselves, rather than as a team, like dota 2 does, that would destroy the effect premades have in pvp.
those 2 things would improve pvp by 1000%.
And yet it would still be terrible.
I agree with that.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Same as the anti afk mechanic stops people from afking in ESTFs?
Why is it that the so called PvP community actually want the PvE community to PvP? Why do they feel that it's so important and special that we should? :cool:
A lot of us hope for this at leaste.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Why? Would love to hear your explanation.
Because even the PvP community knows the PvP community is the worst thing about PvP? :eek:
Because all your posts have been merged HERE into this post, you've switched subforums?
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
nice photoshopped picture here to lie and troll.
That's from this post. From this thread.
Stop being a troll.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
No fleet gets hurt over posts like Hammer... They do not want to admit that the pvp fleets, on ground especially, have had such a negative impact on the Q as to almost kill it completely.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
lol Wont work, they'd just get the PvE griefers/trolls moving across for double the fun... Although, to be honest, I highly suspect they're the same people anyway.
Bi Shonen does not represent the PvP community, despite what he may think.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
the game has standards builds....is called FAW a2b cruiser.
*looks at the bait on the hook, swims off*
Not interested, thanks.
Superdude here is part of a cheese flinging pvp fleet. This thread is not for the pvp minority but to gather the opinions on pvp from the pve community in hope of finding a way to make pvp more desirable for the majority of STO and not just a proving ground for the minority of players who have nearly destroyed the interest in pvp by the general community completely.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
I PVP within my fleet to get some practice but none of us I believe have all the best equipment possible.
I have the resources to buy those 20-35 million EC consoles, I just dont think its worth it for a marginal increase and invest my EC elsewhere.
PVP should be broken down into some kind of skill level so equally equipped or matched people could fight each other. I have no interest in fighting someone flying a JHAS with
5 MKXII purple tactical consoles.
Very good point. We need a ranking system to separate players.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
You need to understand something- to a PvP-disinterested PvE player, one PvP aficionado sermonizing for more cannon fodder looks just like any other PvP aficionado sermonizing for more cannon fodder.
-A ranking/ladder system to separate unskilled players from skilled players
-A mode where players who Q alone will fight in a match with other players who Q alone and not have to face a premade team
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
The concensus was that we dislike the fact that there are so many more trolls and flamers present in PvP than in PvE (NPCs and mobs don't mock you if you lose, or cry hax when you win for example...), and that it gets renamed to trash talking and is considered normal there.
Give this thread enough time, and they will prove our point for us when it, as the other one, falls down into a mire of trolling, flaming and 1 upmanship. Even the denials of elitism were accompanied by attacks on PvE players...
Seems that you've already started to notice this yourself. My advice, give up, they wont let it go, ever. lol EVERY MMO I have played has had the same problem in it's PvP, especially those where the focus has been PvP. PvP attracts people who feel a need to prove some form of superiority over others, end of story.
Oh and for the record, one of my all time fave MMOs, from a gameplay perspective, was a PvP one. I quit when I finally got sick of the trolling, flaming and basically antisocial behaviour. There's enough of that in the real world, without looking for it in games too.
First just encourages elitism even more.
Second will just mean facing individual trolls, and they will still find a way to get their team in.
Played games that did those exact things. They even managed to find a way to trick the mechanics of the queue system to put their team in at one time. If you were really unlucky, one of them would end up on YOUR team.... Ever been on a team where one guy stripped his armour of and then let his mates kill him over and over and over? Not fun...