Just because you got ganked and took their gloating personal doesn't mean others should. There is the ignore button and turning off Zone chat for that. If peoples' offensive teenager insults get to you is that not a reflection of your own behaviour? your inability to take the loses with the wins, the bad people with the good, the easily raged and farmed in Kerrat.
I bet if you didn't lose any match you wouldn't have such negative attitude. There is a challenge from losing and fighting back and winning the next time you face adversity. If you give up so easily then what can I say.
You do realise that these paragraphs illustrate perfectly why many of us chose to just stay away from PvP? In that when we highlight that there is a problem with rude and antisocial behaviour the usual reply is along the lines of suck it up, or ignore it?
Why should we? I don't expect to have to ignore bad behaviour in real life, and I don't expect to have to ignore it in a game that I play for FUN either.
The more PvPers tell PvEers that their dislike of trash talk/rudeness etc is their problem deal with it, the more you and others who do the same illustrate perfectly why many of us chose to just say no thanks and walk away.
As twam wisely put, your trying to make people who AREN'T like you be like you. It's never going to happen. Seriously, you need to suck it up and learn to accept that some folk don't want to PvP, no matter how hard you want them to. This is their/our choice, get over it and move on. Not enough people in the PvP queues? Tough, that's your problem, not ours.
If you want a discussion about how to improve PvP for those who want to PvP, brilliant, heck I'll even chip in with suggestions. If you want to eulagise to those who don't want to PvP, not interested, it really isn't our problem that you don't feel there are enough of you. Focus on getting more PvP players into PvP, rather than trying to convert the many players who really don't want to know.
Pizza place and fish and chips again. Only now you're trying to convince the people who prefer fish and chips to eat in the pizza place by telling them to just ignore the bread, cheese and tomatoes...
You do realise that these paragraphs illustrate perfectly why many of us chose to just stay away from PvP? In that when we highlight that there is a problem with rude and antisocial behaviour the usual reply is along the lines of suck it up, or ignore it?
Why should we? I don't expect to have to ignore bad behaviour in real life, and I don't expect to have to ignore it in a game that I play for FUN either.
The more PvPers tell PvEers that their dislike of trash talk/rudeness etc is their problem deal with it, the more you and others who do the same illustrate perfectly why many of us chose to just say no thanks and walk away.
As twam wisely put, your trying to make people who AREN'T like you be like you. It's never going to happen. Seriously, you need to suck it up and learn to accept that some folk don't want to PvP, no matter how hard you want them to. This is their/our choice, get over it and move on. Not enough people in the PvP queues? Tough, that's your problem, not ours.
If you want a discussion about how to improve PvP for those who want to PvP, brilliant, heck I'll even chip in with suggestions. If you want to eulagise to those who don't want to PvP, not interested, it really isn't our problem that you don't feel there are enough of you. Focus on getting more PvP players into PvP, rather than trying to convert the many players who really don't want to know.
Pizza place and fish and chips again. Only now you're trying to convince the people who prefer fish and chips to eat in the pizza place by telling them to just ignore the bread, cheese and tomatoes...
That is a fair point, as I said my last point it is indeed a choice, I just want you to understand the other reasons you have come to make your choice, also lies in the game developers.
Of course Trash talk is not pleasant, but it unfortuantely exists in ANY game you come across, PVP or PVE. To not realise this is ignorance at best and some people don't realise this. It seems the attitude on here is that the trash talking in the game comes from JUST Pvpers, surely this is not correct and quite insulting in itself.
It's also the way it's always been, armchair epeens making insults and not realising their consequences nor caring. They want a power trip, but why feed it by responding with more food for their trip. I return their power trip many times over with quick death
For the most part I enjoyed looking at the responses on here so I can understand myself why people don't PVP. It gave me an insight and I sincerely enjoyed the majority of the posts here especially ones that wanted to find solutions rather than just list problems.
I don't want to change your mind only simply to give you another insight as well, I respect your choice for not PVPing today or tomorrow. But I only ask that you direct the games PVP inadequacies also to the Developers as the community are unable to write and change the game code, only they can.
You will unfortunately never get rid of trash talking in the game or for any game for that matter, it's the way it is, I have accepted it and understand why they do it but don't condone it.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Please elaborate?? I never said you must PVP and never said I have 'Lofty perch on high'
Ah, the persistent literalist approach: "Since I never used that exact phrase, nothing I said could possibly be construed as belittling or talking down to anybody."
Having had a look at all of his posts, he is pretty negative about PVP and even goes as far as burning the few PVPers that commented too.
Not that your or dontdrunk ever said anything derogatory in all your spiels about how everyone else is "afraid to lose" and such? :rolleyes:
Instead of asking what PVP can do for you ask what you did for PVP to deserve such negativatity and frankly disgusting attitude to others who enjoy it and try to pursuade others to try it.
"Disgusting attitude?" You mean like the attitude that anyone who doesn't have fun right (per you and theElite Few) must be scared of your intimidating keyboard and mouse skills? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, what determines a disgusting attitude is the attitude, not who it's aimed at. Condescension from PvPers is condescension, same as if it came from a PvEer.
If peoples' offensive teenager insults get to you is that not a reflection of your own behaviour? your inability to take the loses with the wins, the bad people with the good, the easily raged and farmed in Kerrat.
And you continue to claim it's all the PvEers and "a few PvP trolls" who speak snidely to others?
I bet if you didn't lose any match you wouldn't have such negative attitude. There is a challenge from losing and fighting back and winning the next time you face adversity. If you give up so easily then what can I say.
Superiority complex much? :rolleyes:
It seems you never talk a balanced view on things and never put yourself on the other side of the fence before formulateing your comments. It's always myway or the highway attitude and imposing this onto your fellow posters.
Like imposing "Anyone who doesn't PvP is scared?" Give it a rest, we all realize you're a legend in your own mind. You've left no doubt of it.
I feel sad your kind of toxic attitude will ultimately impact negatively on others when in fact this may not have been the case.
I feel kind of sad you can't see beyond the limits of your own little world.
Ah, the persistent literalist approach: "Since I never used that exact phrase, nothing I said could possibly be construed as belittling or talking down to anybody."
Riiiiight...
Not that your or dontdrunk ever said anything derogatory in all your spiels about how everyone else is "afraid to lose" and such? :rolleyes:
"Disgusting attitude?" You mean like the attitude that anyone who doesn't have fun right (per you and theElite Few) must be scared of your intimidating keyboard and mouse skills? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, what determines a disgusting attitude is the attitude, not who it's aimed at. Condescension from PvPers is condescension, same as if it came from a PvEer.
And you continue to claim it's all the PvEers and "a few PvP trolls" who speak snidely to others?
Superiority complex much? :rolleyes:
Like imposing "Anyone who doesn't PvP is scared?" Give it a rest, we all realize you're a legend in your own mind. You've left no doubt of it.
I feel kind of sad you can't see beyond the limits of your own little world.
In Any case thanks for posting in this thread, I appreciate your comments Sir
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
In Any case thanks for posting in this thread, I appreciate your comments Sir
I'm so glad you approve of a mere PvEer posting in a thread created for feedback from mere PvEers. I know my comments in this thread take up forum space that could be better used by a worthy PvPer. :rolleyes:
g0h4n4 who the hell do you think your talking to ya knobber ?
Read what I said again, I am in no way accusing anyone of being a noob so I dont expect it back, anyway who died and made you god ?
Read what I said again carefully and I wont hold my breath for an apology from our self styled GOD. knobber !
Hope to see you in star citizen I will be the pirate skanking yur TRIBBLE ! I wont steal a thing I will just blow it to dust !
They dont PvP coz they dont wana get beat !
PvE is easy you just turn up and be a god, in PvP there is a good chance your PvE god like skills will do nothing and you will be made to look a n00b !
^^^^^ ?????
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Ok guys, lets reverse the positions for a hypothetical moment, you mean to tell me if this thread was titled "To the PVP community, Why don't you PVE?" and the pvpers posted the same things you pve-ers have here, you honestly mean to tell me you wouldn't have reacted in a very similar way to the way we pvpers have here?
Right. Let's be fair now, Gohan and Mimey started out trying to have helpful, what did Gohan get for it? (Look where we are now before you answer that)
We haven't said at all in this thread (so far as I've read) that pvp should be anything but optional, we've stated that as a community we do all we can to stop the exploiters, with that in mind exploiters do serve a purpose as they pay more attention than most to changes in how things work to find the mistakes so they can exploit them, the general community then brings these to light and the devs fix them ad the exploiters find a new one (the cycle goes on), so they aren't completely negative in the grand scheme of things, it's just not nice to be n the receiving end.
On the subject of trash talk, it's like B****ing, it's a fact of life, we can complain about it to others (which proves my point) or we can complain to the people trash talking, which as mentioned makes it worse, sadly it is this black and white.
Had I asked the question, "Why don't you PvE?", I would have been looking for the answers to the question. I certainly wouldn't have been looking for converts.
I might have sought the answers in order to find out if there were any way to make the experience more palatable for those who didn't enjoy it; but if I learned that the reasons had to do with something endemic to the experience ("I don't like the AI's failure to ever surprise me," for instance), I would have just accepted that we all have different tastes, not told PvPers to "suck it up" and ignore the AI's shortcomings.
The question was asked why some of us don't PvP. The answer was overwhelmingly, "We don't care to associate with the loudmouths who live to gank noobs and then spend the next half-hour trash-talking us." So, this is a thing endemic to the PvP experience, across all games so far as I can tell, and it's unlikely that there's anything that can be done about it while leaving the experience still acceptable to existing PvPers. At that point, you shrug and accept it. This is not something I've seen going on in this thread.
I don't know DDIS's motivations when they posted in the thread but my first post in the thread was to try to show that the "the (entire) PVP community is terribad" thing that's going on is plain wrong, then I went and got caught up in discussion with others, I think Gohan's originial motivation was very much the same, seems we failed in that respect.
Mostly because I don't feel any particular need to put up with the bad attitudes I normally encounter in PvP zones.
Yes, I know there are some good players but all it takes is enough bad apples to spoil it completely.
The other reason is that Cryptic has demonstrated zero skill for creating a balanced PvP experience and less interest in policing what experience they have made.
Everyone seems to have a very clear-cut opinion on what i think is a bit more complicated.
There are arseholes in every part of the community, fact. If you can't think of the one idiot in a social group then chances are, it's you. Despite the PvP community being small in relation to most others within STO, it sadly has more then it's fair share. There are many reasons for such, the game they play tends to be much more difficult, beating other players is far more difficult then fighting the NPCs who. As time and excessive power-creep goes on; get easier to vanquish. This does not give said PvP community the right to be cocky, you don't pick a boulder to push up a hill instead of a pebble simply to hold that over your fellow players, if you do then that's an awful attitude. Most people PvP because they want a challenge, and the game's PvE power-creep does not deliver that. When you can complete ISE in 2-3 minutes, you know theres a problem Crypticside.
Other reason there is often friction between the communities is due to nerfing. NPCs never complain when they get destroyed or killed. They can't point out when a power, weapon etc is not working properly, and those (for the most part) who used it can't tell and wouldn't care anyway. When you use an aspect of the game on somebody real, it's much easier to see when a skill or ship or weapon is far too powerful and should be nerfed in order to keep the game challenging and preserve the metagame. Many in the PVE community see this as ruining their fun or taking away a tool they enjoy or rely on. The problem is that PVE & PVP are not exclusive, they live in harmony on a single server. Stuff that has little to no use on one end might have drastic consequences on the other. PVPer don't call things out to be nerfed or fixed for no reason.
When you look at it, weather you like it or not - PvP has had no new maps, no new gametypes, no rep system, no balance checks, and ZERO official Dev time since the game was in beta. In fact, they've removed more PVP content in the last four years then they've implemented. Cryptic & DStahl have lied many times with promises to rectify this. That whole situation has left our community small and bitter. While the Foundry, Rep System, Starbase & Fleet Holdings and general PVE is pandered too, PvP never has. Take a moment to think about how that feels 4 years on, it's honestly quite frustrating.
Speaking as a proud PvPer - I know there are idiots and irritating people in the PvP Community, and i've seen plenty in the PvE one too. So at the end of the day you have to just make sure you're not one of them, and don't socialise with them. Take what you can from the game, enjoy it - it's a hobby to play here not a job.
If anyone here has been tarnished by bad sportsmanship or hearsay in relation to PvP, all i can say is don't assume everyone is like that, the 10% bad apples within PvP are no better to the 10% of bad apples in PvE.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
The percentage of pvp douchebags is undeniably higher than that of pve douchebags. Sure there are bad people in both but either there are more in pvp(likely) it due to a smaller amount of pvp players is a similar amount but more noticeable(also likely). Note that percentage in this case does NOT mean that there are more although it can.
Everyone seems to have a very clear-cut opinion on what i think is a bit more complicated.
There are arseholes in every part of the community, fact. If you can't think of the one idiot in a social group then chances are, it's you. Despite the PvP community being small in relation to most others within STO, it sadly has more then it's fair share. There are many reasons for such, the game they play tends to be much more difficult, beating other players is far more difficult then fighting the NPCs who. As time and excessive power-creep goes on; get easier to vanquish. This does not give said PvP community the right to be cocky, you don't pick a boulder to push up a hill instead of a pebble simply to hold that over your fellow players, if you do then that's an awful attitude. Most people PvP because they want a challenge, and the game's PvE power-creep does not deliver that. When you can complete ISE in 2-3 minutes, you know theres a problem Crypticside.
Other reason there is often friction between the communities is due to nerfing. NPCs never complain when they get destroyed or killed. They can't point out when a power, weapon etc is not working properly, and those (for the most part) who used it can't tell and wouldn't care anyway. When you use an aspect of the game on somebody real, it's much easier to see when a skill or ship or weapon is far too powerful and should be nerfed in order to keep the game challenging and preserve the metagame. Many in the PVE community see this as ruining their fun or taking away a tool they enjoy or rely on. The problem is that PVE & PVP are not exclusive, they live in harmony on a single server. Stuff that has little to no use on one end might have drastic consequences on the other. PVPer don't call things out to be nerfed or fixed for no reason.
When you look at it, weather you like it or not - PvP has had no new maps, no new gametypes, no rep system, no balance checks, and ZERO official Dev time since the game was in beta. In fact, they've removed more PVP content in the last four years then they've implemented. Cryptic & DStahl have lied many times with promises to rectify this. That whole situation has left our community small and bitter. While the Foundry, Rep System, Starbase & Fleet Holdings and general PVE is pandered too, PvP never has. Take a moment to think about how that feels 4 years on, it's honestly quite frustrating.
Speaking as a proud PvPer - I know there are idiots and irritating people in the PvP Community, and i've seen plenty in the PvE one too. So at the end of the day you have to just make sure you're not one of them, and don't socialise with them. Take what you can from the game, enjoy it - it's a hobby to play here not a job.
If anyone here has been tarnished by bad sportsmanship or hearsay in relation to PvP, all i can say is don't assume everyone is like that, the 10% bad apples within PvP are no better to the 10% of bad apples in PvE.
If you're here to persuade PVEers to try PVP, you're going about it the wrong way here.
Everything in the above post has already been said, if with a little more hostility, by a previous PVPer posting here.
The old "there are bad people in PVE too so its all totally equal" thing.
The "we are your elite game testers you need us you can't handle game balance without us to tell you what game balance is" thing.
And much, much more.
My advisory is to remember that we're the ones you need to convince to try your corner of the game. Simply saying you're important and we need you and that the game revolves around your side of it and that we have you all figured out wrong isn't very persuasive.
Thanks for not putting it as rudely as some other PVPers here though.
Had I asked the question, "Why don't you PvE?", I would have been looking for the answers to the question. I certainly wouldn't have been looking for converts.
I might have sought the answers in order to find out if there were any way to make the experience more palatable for those who didn't enjoy it; but if I learned that the reasons had to do with something endemic to the experience ("I don't like the AI's failure to ever surprise me," for instance), I would have just accepted that we all have different tastes, not told PvPers to "suck it up" and ignore the AI's shortcomings.
The question was asked why some of us don't PvP. The answer was overwhelmingly, "We don't care to associate with the loudmouths who live to gank noobs and then spend the next half-hour trash-talking us." So, this is a thing endemic to the PvP experience, across all games so far as I can tell, and it's unlikely that there's anything that can be done about it while leaving the experience still acceptable to existing PvPers. At that point, you shrug and accept it. This is not something I've seen going on in this thread.
Wall of text warning!!
Spot on. This thread started out asking us why we didn't PvP. We answered, only to be told basically that this isn't the case at all, that the reason we don't like PvP is because Cryptic made it rubbish. Uhm, you're trying to tell us that we're wrong, and your right, and you say this ISN'T an elitist attitude?
"You" then go on to tell us that bad behaviour is just a part of life in MMOs, to shut up and suck it up. Again I point out that been told to shut up and suck it up is in many ways a bigger put off than the bad behaviour itself, how is it that you can't understand this?
"You" argue that there are just as many idiots in PvE as in PvP, well this just isn't my experience. Also take a look at when a member of the PvE community DOES act like a moron. Does the community just shrug and say oh well suck it up? Not usually no, they condemn the behaviour. Naturally your reply to this will be to tell me that this isn't the case and that I am wrong and you are right... Ask yourself, how do you feel when one of the PvE community tells you that PvE content as actually brilliant and that you have it all wrong? Like you are been spoken to by an elitist with no actual appreciation of the simple truth that what matters is what the person you are talking to believes and has experienced when it comes to what THEY chose to do? I'd also point out that I turn off zone and world type chats in ALL games. Twice in the entire time I've been playing PvE content on STO I've seen somebody troll in team chat. Both times they were basically giving out BAD instructions to the rest of the team (usually along the lines of "stop killing the stuff that needs killing in what you see as the correct order!" lol). Twice I've run into griefers in STFs, usually in ISE when you get a muppet who goes off on their own and starts popping gens whilst everybody else is the opposite side (both times it was a KDF player, but I am not for one second going to suggest that all griefers are KDF just from a sample of 2. lol). This compared to how often I'd run into griefing and abuse in PvP (from past experience it's something like every 3rd match if you're lucky...)....
Seriously, if PvPers didn't want to know the reason PvEers don't want to PvP, why even bother to ask? When you ask a question, you tend to get an answer even if it's not the one that you want to hear. We're not trolling or flaming you (well, most of us aren't, you'll probably find if you look hard enough that those who are aren't actually even PvEers anyway I suspect. lol), we're answering the question that was asked.
"You" don't like PvE and feel it lacks any challenge. Ok, I get that and accept that this is how you feel. BUT this doesn't mean that we HAVE to feel the same way. Seriously folks, my analogy about pizza and fish and chips is spot on here. You don't like fish and chips and prefer pizza, this is fine, but please stop telling those of us who don't like pizza that it's better than fish and chips and that we just have it wrong. Don't then try to tell us that the reason we don't like pizza because we've never had a decent one because the shop we get it from doesn't know how to make pizza. The simple truth is, your making a HUGE and innacurate assumption that we've only ever had pizza from one place.
Now consider that time and again we point out that your replies actually prove OUR point. Seriously guys, we tell you that the fact you tell everybody to suck it up is a big part of the problem, your reply to this is to tell us to suck it up.... It's actually pretty funny when you think about it. To me it reads a little like this:-
"I don't like pizza, but I like fish and chips."
"Pizza is awesome, eat pizza! Fish and chips sucks!"
"But I don't like the cheese on pizza!"
"Suck it up and ignore the cheese, as the bread and sauce are awesome!"
"I don't want to suck it up, as I really don't like the cheese"
"It's your fault you don't like the cheese, just suck it up!"
"You're telling me to suck it up is a part of the problem of why I don't like pizza"
"Suck it up! Oh and by the way the real reason that you don't like pizza is that the shop we are all getting the pizza from here is bad! If the shop wasn't bad, you'd like pizza, it's nothing to do with the cheese!"
I know this seems like a very silly analogy, but I hope that it may clarify things a little. You're basically evangelising to us, trying to convert us. You're not asking us what we don't like, and then telling us that you will try to change the things that we dislike. You're asking us what we don't like, then telling us that this isn't what we don't like at all suck it up. You're also on the one hand telling us that PvP in STO is broken, then in the next breath telling us to come PvP with you... Can you even see how ridiculous that is? All of your replies are having the exact opposite effect to the one you want them to have, you can see this right?
Am I trying to tell you to stop PvPing and come PvE? Heck no! You go do what you enjoy doing. I'm just asking you to a) stop asking us questions if you 1) aren't going to pay attention to our answer and 2) don't actually want OUR answer anyway, and b) stop trying to get us to do something that we don't want to do. I can respect your choice, and that you don't enjoy PvE as much as I do. Why is it that you can't return the favour?
I don't PvP simply because I am not built it. I do very well in PvE, but I normally die very fast to any player that has spent any amount of time trying to max dps. Hell, I don't have a single heal available to my ship.
I have been lucky enough though not to have run into too many jerks though.
In two weeks time, I will be hosting a tournament. There will be no premades, no 'fleet tags', none of what seems to be the most common (and understandable) issues people have had with PvP in the past.
I will make a thread in the PvP section when I start to get ready for it, but I will make a thread up here in the General section of the forum, to let more people know about it. If it goes well, I'll do it more in the future. If not, then I will not do so anymore.
What do you all think of that? No premades stomping people into the ground, no being griped at by anyone on either side, none of those things. Just an even, balanced PvP tournament for fun and enjoyment, perhaps even allowing folks a better and more fair chance at actually starting out in PvP.
Apologies for the late reply. Had a fourteen hour power cut, the price of living in the Rockies.
I'd be very interested in this and would be more than happy to help out.
After reading the concerns of smaller groups of 2 or 3, all the way to 5 man premades I have changed my position on the issue I think we can do away with the idea of a 'Premade' only queue now.
A few simple changes should give everyone what they want...
* Remove FvK, FvF, KvK (Merge the Factions)
More people, all queues pop faster, KDF PvPers get more matches.
* Keep existing queue rules for the 'Normal' queue. (Queue solo or any group size)
No changes here; solo, 2 man, 3 man, 4 man, and 5 man queuing allowed.
Nothing has changed here so no one has lost anything. No reasons to complain.
* Add a 'Random' queue (Can only queue solo here)
Allows people who quickly want an all random/PUG match to have it.
People of all experience levels and playstyles now have a choice that should make them happier than before, the market can decide which queues pop more. Thoughts?
Apologies for the late reply. Had a fourteen hour power cut, the price of living in the Rockies.
I'd be very interested in this and would be more than happy to help out.
Rinkster, I know that people can be excited for the new Hobbit movie... But you aren't a dwarf (unless you are, which is perfectly ok), you can live outside of a mountain.
I kid of course. I lived in the Appalachians when I was but a wee ensign, so I feel I can certainly sympathize there.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Could be worst, I live in England where 2 inches of snow causes the country to grind to a halt, and where there's massive panic if we get gale force winds let alone a hurricane.
I used to live in a country village where if you sneezed too hard the power went off. Seriously, it happened once!
Mimey, good luck with the tournament bud! It's brilliant when players take a bit of responsiblity for their own enjoyment and fun. :cool:
Elitists, that make Alpha Strikes and Base Camp and then chat with you and call you a whining TRIBBLE. (this mainly happened against KDF players unfortunately)
thats its not aimed at casual players.
that you actually can be destroyed in half a second in PVP when sitting in your best PVE ship that grins at any Estf.
That only special build are able to survive there. and if you dont follow the herd and do as the others you get called out, or they just dont understand.
The PVP System itself is broken, totally.
The PVP Missions are... not tensing.
You cant just make a Free-For-All regardless of factions or anything. (THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING)
But MAIN reason also stays, when just normally queuing (pugging) the chance is pretty high to run with a pug group in a fully PRO fleet group always. and get shot to bits in 2 seconds.
no matter how good or bad the team play is.. and normally when you says something then comes the "learn to play" or the "if you dont like it dont play it"
The PvP players are the utmost unfriendly people i have ever met. in chat in game . and specially when a PvP player comes into an PVE match... and just says stfu, you have too less DPS just kill everything and dont mind that the rest of the team is trying to make the 10% rule at ISE,
so... reasons i dont PVP? The Players that play PvP
If you're here to persuade PVEers to try PVP, you're going about it the wrong way here.
Everything in the above post has already been said, if with a little more hostility, by a previous PVPer posting here.
The old "there are bad people in PVE too so its all totally equal" thing.
The "we are your elite game testers you need us you can't handle game balance without us to tell you what game balance is" thing.
And much, much more.
My advisory is to remember that we're the ones you need to convince to try your corner of the game. Simply saying you're important and we need you and that the game revolves around your side of it and that we have you all figured out wrong isn't very persuasive.
Thanks for not putting it as rudely as some other PVPers here though.
I'm afraid you're reading alittle too much into my post. I, sadly, have not read the 40+ pages of posts before i spoke, i care about people having the wrong idea about the community i'm in, but not that much lol.
Nowhere in my post did i say that PvE centric players are worth anymore or any less then PvP players, so please don't say otherwise on my behalf.
I have no interest in pushing people happy with PvE into another aspect of the game. People are smart enough to try it for themselves if they wish, they don't need people to convice them. I only posted here at all to try and clear up a few misconceptions. What supposed super-secret hidden truths you might read into my post is by your own imagination only
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Well, since there are only elitist asshats in the queues sometimes, you must be talking about PvE...
You forgot to underline/use bold text on the sometimes. Very good though.
How to get a PvE player into PvP, insult them, mock them and tell them how rubbish the PvP is. Yup, that'll work! Grats PvP forum community in your own goal.:D
Or, was it all a cunning plan to keep PvE players from joining your games? Hmmm, hmmm? lol
Comments
You do realise that these paragraphs illustrate perfectly why many of us chose to just stay away from PvP? In that when we highlight that there is a problem with rude and antisocial behaviour the usual reply is along the lines of suck it up, or ignore it?
Why should we? I don't expect to have to ignore bad behaviour in real life, and I don't expect to have to ignore it in a game that I play for FUN either.
The more PvPers tell PvEers that their dislike of trash talk/rudeness etc is their problem deal with it, the more you and others who do the same illustrate perfectly why many of us chose to just say no thanks and walk away.
As twam wisely put, your trying to make people who AREN'T like you be like you. It's never going to happen. Seriously, you need to suck it up and learn to accept that some folk don't want to PvP, no matter how hard you want them to. This is their/our choice, get over it and move on. Not enough people in the PvP queues? Tough, that's your problem, not ours.
If you want a discussion about how to improve PvP for those who want to PvP, brilliant, heck I'll even chip in with suggestions. If you want to eulagise to those who don't want to PvP, not interested, it really isn't our problem that you don't feel there are enough of you. Focus on getting more PvP players into PvP, rather than trying to convert the many players who really don't want to know.
Pizza place and fish and chips again. Only now you're trying to convince the people who prefer fish and chips to eat in the pizza place by telling them to just ignore the bread, cheese and tomatoes...
That is a fair point, as I said my last point it is indeed a choice, I just want you to understand the other reasons you have come to make your choice, also lies in the game developers.
Of course Trash talk is not pleasant, but it unfortuantely exists in ANY game you come across, PVP or PVE. To not realise this is ignorance at best and some people don't realise this. It seems the attitude on here is that the trash talking in the game comes from JUST Pvpers, surely this is not correct and quite insulting in itself.
It's also the way it's always been, armchair epeens making insults and not realising their consequences nor caring. They want a power trip, but why feed it by responding with more food for their trip. I return their power trip many times over with quick death
For the most part I enjoyed looking at the responses on here so I can understand myself why people don't PVP. It gave me an insight and I sincerely enjoyed the majority of the posts here especially ones that wanted to find solutions rather than just list problems.
I don't want to change your mind only simply to give you another insight as well, I respect your choice for not PVPing today or tomorrow. But I only ask that you direct the games PVP inadequacies also to the Developers as the community are unable to write and change the game code, only they can.
You will unfortunately never get rid of trash talking in the game or for any game for that matter, it's the way it is, I have accepted it and understand why they do it but don't condone it.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Ah, the persistent literalist approach: "Since I never used that exact phrase, nothing I said could possibly be construed as belittling or talking down to anybody."
Riiiiight...
Not that your or dontdrunk ever said anything derogatory in all your spiels about how everyone else is "afraid to lose" and such? :rolleyes:
"Disgusting attitude?" You mean like the attitude that anyone who doesn't have fun right (per you and theElite Few) must be scared of your intimidating keyboard and mouse skills? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, what determines a disgusting attitude is the attitude, not who it's aimed at. Condescension from PvPers is condescension, same as if it came from a PvEer.
And you continue to claim it's all the PvEers and "a few PvP trolls" who speak snidely to others?
Superiority complex much? :rolleyes:
Like imposing "Anyone who doesn't PvP is scared?" Give it a rest, we all realize you're a legend in your own mind. You've left no doubt of it.
I feel kind of sad you can't see beyond the limits of your own little world.
It is not a problem with any of them (Fed) age not important
In Any case thanks for posting in this thread, I appreciate your comments Sir
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I'm so glad you approve of a mere PvEer posting in a thread created for feedback from mere PvEers. I know my comments in this thread take up forum space that could be better used by a worthy PvPer. :rolleyes:
Read what I said again, I am in no way accusing anyone of being a noob so I dont expect it back, anyway who died and made you god ?
Read what I said again carefully and I wont hold my breath for an apology from our self styled GOD. knobber !
Hope to see you in star citizen I will be the pirate skanking yur TRIBBLE ! I wont steal a thing I will just blow it to dust !
Ya freak !
^^^^^ ?????
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Right. Let's be fair now, Gohan and Mimey started out trying to have helpful, what did Gohan get for it? (Look where we are now before you answer that)
We haven't said at all in this thread (so far as I've read) that pvp should be anything but optional, we've stated that as a community we do all we can to stop the exploiters, with that in mind exploiters do serve a purpose as they pay more attention than most to changes in how things work to find the mistakes so they can exploit them, the general community then brings these to light and the devs fix them ad the exploiters find a new one (the cycle goes on), so they aren't completely negative in the grand scheme of things, it's just not nice to be n the receiving end.
On the subject of trash talk, it's like B****ing, it's a fact of life, we can complain about it to others (which proves my point) or we can complain to the people trash talking, which as mentioned makes it worse, sadly it is this black and white.
I might have sought the answers in order to find out if there were any way to make the experience more palatable for those who didn't enjoy it; but if I learned that the reasons had to do with something endemic to the experience ("I don't like the AI's failure to ever surprise me," for instance), I would have just accepted that we all have different tastes, not told PvPers to "suck it up" and ignore the AI's shortcomings.
The question was asked why some of us don't PvP. The answer was overwhelmingly, "We don't care to associate with the loudmouths who live to gank noobs and then spend the next half-hour trash-talking us." So, this is a thing endemic to the PvP experience, across all games so far as I can tell, and it's unlikely that there's anything that can be done about it while leaving the experience still acceptable to existing PvPers. At that point, you shrug and accept it. This is not something I've seen going on in this thread.
Mostly because I don't feel any particular need to put up with the bad attitudes I normally encounter in PvP zones.
Yes, I know there are some good players but all it takes is enough bad apples to spoil it completely.
The other reason is that Cryptic has demonstrated zero skill for creating a balanced PvP experience and less interest in policing what experience they have made.
There are arseholes in every part of the community, fact. If you can't think of the one idiot in a social group then chances are, it's you. Despite the PvP community being small in relation to most others within STO, it sadly has more then it's fair share. There are many reasons for such, the game they play tends to be much more difficult, beating other players is far more difficult then fighting the NPCs who. As time and excessive power-creep goes on; get easier to vanquish. This does not give said PvP community the right to be cocky, you don't pick a boulder to push up a hill instead of a pebble simply to hold that over your fellow players, if you do then that's an awful attitude. Most people PvP because they want a challenge, and the game's PvE power-creep does not deliver that. When you can complete ISE in 2-3 minutes, you know theres a problem Crypticside.
Other reason there is often friction between the communities is due to nerfing. NPCs never complain when they get destroyed or killed. They can't point out when a power, weapon etc is not working properly, and those (for the most part) who used it can't tell and wouldn't care anyway. When you use an aspect of the game on somebody real, it's much easier to see when a skill or ship or weapon is far too powerful and should be nerfed in order to keep the game challenging and preserve the metagame. Many in the PVE community see this as ruining their fun or taking away a tool they enjoy or rely on. The problem is that PVE & PVP are not exclusive, they live in harmony on a single server. Stuff that has little to no use on one end might have drastic consequences on the other. PVPer don't call things out to be nerfed or fixed for no reason.
When you look at it, weather you like it or not - PvP has had no new maps, no new gametypes, no rep system, no balance checks, and ZERO official Dev time since the game was in beta. In fact, they've removed more PVP content in the last four years then they've implemented. Cryptic & DStahl have lied many times with promises to rectify this. That whole situation has left our community small and bitter. While the Foundry, Rep System, Starbase & Fleet Holdings and general PVE is pandered too, PvP never has. Take a moment to think about how that feels 4 years on, it's honestly quite frustrating.
Speaking as a proud PvPer - I know there are idiots and irritating people in the PvP Community, and i've seen plenty in the PvE one too. So at the end of the day you have to just make sure you're not one of them, and don't socialise with them. Take what you can from the game, enjoy it - it's a hobby to play here not a job.
If anyone here has been tarnished by bad sportsmanship or hearsay in relation to PvP, all i can say is don't assume everyone is like that, the 10% bad apples within PvP are no better to the 10% of bad apples in PvE.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
If you're here to persuade PVEers to try PVP, you're going about it the wrong way here.
Everything in the above post has already been said, if with a little more hostility, by a previous PVPer posting here.
The old "there are bad people in PVE too so its all totally equal" thing.
The "we are your elite game testers you need us you can't handle game balance without us to tell you what game balance is" thing.
And much, much more.
My advisory is to remember that we're the ones you need to convince to try your corner of the game. Simply saying you're important and we need you and that the game revolves around your side of it and that we have you all figured out wrong isn't very persuasive.
Thanks for not putting it as rudely as some other PVPers here though.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
Wall of text warning!!
Spot on. This thread started out asking us why we didn't PvP. We answered, only to be told basically that this isn't the case at all, that the reason we don't like PvP is because Cryptic made it rubbish. Uhm, you're trying to tell us that we're wrong, and your right, and you say this ISN'T an elitist attitude?
"You" then go on to tell us that bad behaviour is just a part of life in MMOs, to shut up and suck it up. Again I point out that been told to shut up and suck it up is in many ways a bigger put off than the bad behaviour itself, how is it that you can't understand this?
"You" argue that there are just as many idiots in PvE as in PvP, well this just isn't my experience. Also take a look at when a member of the PvE community DOES act like a moron. Does the community just shrug and say oh well suck it up? Not usually no, they condemn the behaviour. Naturally your reply to this will be to tell me that this isn't the case and that I am wrong and you are right... Ask yourself, how do you feel when one of the PvE community tells you that PvE content as actually brilliant and that you have it all wrong? Like you are been spoken to by an elitist with no actual appreciation of the simple truth that what matters is what the person you are talking to believes and has experienced when it comes to what THEY chose to do? I'd also point out that I turn off zone and world type chats in ALL games. Twice in the entire time I've been playing PvE content on STO I've seen somebody troll in team chat. Both times they were basically giving out BAD instructions to the rest of the team (usually along the lines of "stop killing the stuff that needs killing in what you see as the correct order!" lol). Twice I've run into griefers in STFs, usually in ISE when you get a muppet who goes off on their own and starts popping gens whilst everybody else is the opposite side (both times it was a KDF player, but I am not for one second going to suggest that all griefers are KDF just from a sample of 2. lol). This compared to how often I'd run into griefing and abuse in PvP (from past experience it's something like every 3rd match if you're lucky...)....
Seriously, if PvPers didn't want to know the reason PvEers don't want to PvP, why even bother to ask? When you ask a question, you tend to get an answer even if it's not the one that you want to hear. We're not trolling or flaming you (well, most of us aren't, you'll probably find if you look hard enough that those who are aren't actually even PvEers anyway I suspect. lol), we're answering the question that was asked.
"You" don't like PvE and feel it lacks any challenge. Ok, I get that and accept that this is how you feel. BUT this doesn't mean that we HAVE to feel the same way. Seriously folks, my analogy about pizza and fish and chips is spot on here. You don't like fish and chips and prefer pizza, this is fine, but please stop telling those of us who don't like pizza that it's better than fish and chips and that we just have it wrong. Don't then try to tell us that the reason we don't like pizza because we've never had a decent one because the shop we get it from doesn't know how to make pizza. The simple truth is, your making a HUGE and innacurate assumption that we've only ever had pizza from one place.
Now consider that time and again we point out that your replies actually prove OUR point. Seriously guys, we tell you that the fact you tell everybody to suck it up is a big part of the problem, your reply to this is to tell us to suck it up.... It's actually pretty funny when you think about it. To me it reads a little like this:-
"I don't like pizza, but I like fish and chips."
"Pizza is awesome, eat pizza! Fish and chips sucks!"
"But I don't like the cheese on pizza!"
"Suck it up and ignore the cheese, as the bread and sauce are awesome!"
"I don't want to suck it up, as I really don't like the cheese"
"It's your fault you don't like the cheese, just suck it up!"
"You're telling me to suck it up is a part of the problem of why I don't like pizza"
"Suck it up! Oh and by the way the real reason that you don't like pizza is that the shop we are all getting the pizza from here is bad! If the shop wasn't bad, you'd like pizza, it's nothing to do with the cheese!"
I know this seems like a very silly analogy, but I hope that it may clarify things a little. You're basically evangelising to us, trying to convert us. You're not asking us what we don't like, and then telling us that you will try to change the things that we dislike. You're asking us what we don't like, then telling us that this isn't what we don't like at all suck it up. You're also on the one hand telling us that PvP in STO is broken, then in the next breath telling us to come PvP with you... Can you even see how ridiculous that is? All of your replies are having the exact opposite effect to the one you want them to have, you can see this right?
Am I trying to tell you to stop PvPing and come PvE? Heck no! You go do what you enjoy doing. I'm just asking you to a) stop asking us questions if you 1) aren't going to pay attention to our answer and 2) don't actually want OUR answer anyway, and b) stop trying to get us to do something that we don't want to do. I can respect your choice, and that you don't enjoy PvE as much as I do. Why is it that you can't return the favour?
Regards
I have been lucky enough though not to have run into too many jerks though.
Apologies for the late reply. Had a fourteen hour power cut, the price of living in the Rockies.
I'd be very interested in this and would be more than happy to help out.
After reading the concerns of smaller groups of 2 or 3, all the way to 5 man premades I have changed my position on the issue I think we can do away with the idea of a 'Premade' only queue now.
A few simple changes should give everyone what they want...
* Remove FvK, FvF, KvK (Merge the Factions)
More people, all queues pop faster, KDF PvPers get more matches.
* Keep existing queue rules for the 'Normal' queue. (Queue solo or any group size)
No changes here; solo, 2 man, 3 man, 4 man, and 5 man queuing allowed.
Nothing has changed here so no one has lost anything. No reasons to complain.
* Add a 'Random' queue (Can only queue solo here)
Allows people who quickly want an all random/PUG match to have it.
People of all experience levels and playstyles now have a choice that should make them happier than before, the market can decide which queues pop more. Thoughts?
Rinkster, I know that people can be excited for the new Hobbit movie... But you aren't a dwarf (unless you are, which is perfectly ok), you can live outside of a mountain.
I kid of course. I lived in the Appalachians when I was but a wee ensign, so I feel I can certainly sympathize there.
Anyways, I'm glad that you look forward to it.
I used to live in a country village where if you sneezed too hard the power went off. Seriously, it happened once!
Mimey, good luck with the tournament bud! It's brilliant when players take a bit of responsiblity for their own enjoyment and fun. :cool:
Elitists, that make Alpha Strikes and Base Camp and then chat with you and call you a whining TRIBBLE. (this mainly happened against KDF players unfortunately)
thats its not aimed at casual players.
that you actually can be destroyed in half a second in PVP when sitting in your best PVE ship that grins at any Estf.
That only special build are able to survive there. and if you dont follow the herd and do as the others you get called out, or they just dont understand.
The PVP System itself is broken, totally.
The PVP Missions are... not tensing.
You cant just make a Free-For-All regardless of factions or anything. (THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING)
But MAIN reason also stays, when just normally queuing (pugging) the chance is pretty high to run with a pug group in a fully PRO fleet group always. and get shot to bits in 2 seconds.
no matter how good or bad the team play is.. and normally when you says something then comes the "learn to play" or the "if you dont like it dont play it"
The PvP players are the utmost unfriendly people i have ever met. in chat in game . and specially when a PvP player comes into an PVE match... and just says stfu, you have too less DPS just kill everything and dont mind that the rest of the team is trying to make the 10% rule at ISE,
so... reasons i dont PVP? The Players that play PvP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm afraid you're reading alittle too much into my post. I, sadly, have not read the 40+ pages of posts before i spoke, i care about people having the wrong idea about the community i'm in, but not that much lol.
Nowhere in my post did i say that PvE centric players are worth anymore or any less then PvP players, so please don't say otherwise on my behalf.
I have no interest in pushing people happy with PvE into another aspect of the game. People are smart enough to try it for themselves if they wish, they don't need people to convice them. I only posted here at all to try and clear up a few misconceptions. What supposed super-secret hidden truths you might read into my post is by your own imagination only
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Sometimes no-one says anything.
Sometimes there are elitist asshats in the queues.
Sometimes you get a good team and it goes really well.
Sometimes you get a bad team and it's lolfail.
Sometimes there's a guy who is so OP compared to the others it's not even funny.
Sometimes there's this guy who blows up really really easily.
Now..... am I talking about PvE or PvP?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
You forgot to underline/use bold text on the sometimes. Very good though.
How to get a PvE player into PvP, insult them, mock them and tell them how rubbish the PvP is. Yup, that'll work! Grats PvP forum community in your own goal.:D
Or, was it all a cunning plan to keep PvE players from joining your games? Hmmm, hmmm? lol
Quippy. Most I ever see said in PvP matches is target calling and 'gg' at the end. You must just be unlucky I guess.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.