What difference does that make in the middle of a mission? Is someone gonna go buy reinforcements or something?
Not the point I was making. I was trying to emphasise the posters' use of "again", as if every time the Fed get a ship, the Klinks get one that is a +1 version of the Fed one.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
I have got the Avenger but i didnt like it that much overall, but that because for my the Excelsior does the same job even better. I myself really enjoy the 'Tactical Cruisers' the Fed have with the Excelsior and Regent myself more then the Avenger. Unfortunaly the KDF only really had the Tor'Kaht which is good, but only a fleet ship and costs 4 Fleet ship modules for each char that would want one. The Vor'Cha Retrofit while workable doesn't have that Lt Cmdr Tac BOFF slot. The Mogh on the other hand now has that nice LT Cmdr BOFF slot along with the fact it won't cost me 4 Fleet ship modules per character for it.
I'm starting to really like it. And have plans on getting it, however it will be in line. First I have another Federation and Romulan ship to get. So it is added to the list and will have to wait. Just like the Avenger, its on the list. And its waiting its turn to be bought.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Flat out, I'm glad that the KDF is getting something new added to the shipyards. I primarily play Fed, but it was still kinda grating on my nerves to see the KDF side get kinda screwed on 'Power Creep' in regards to new stuff time and again.
And for all of you people whining about the 'integrated cloak' the Mogh has which the Avenger does not. Grow. The. ****. Up. It's not game breaking, it's not the end of the ****ing world just because they get one console slot freed up which you don't and by the way, you don't HAVE to load the ****ing Cloak on the Avenger do you? Unless your entire build is revolved around the Cloaking Device Console for Fed side, (If it is, might I just say this, "You're doing it WRONG!"). Then the Cloak for the Avenger is purely optional, and really, doesn't add a whole hell of a lot anyways.
What you say about the cloak on the Avenger hits to the heart of why the fed cloaking device was made into a console from it original innate function. Cloak is only an option in PvE and many feds complained that the one less console was not worth having a cloak. So the Devs added an extra console to all fed cloakers and made the power removable.
Now thats not good enough for an ability found to be pointless in PvE and they want it innate again to keep the same console slots.
Why? What disadvantage does it give them in PvE versus the KDF?
None. This complaint is all a strawman arguement meant to gain for PvP. If given the next complaint will be its not a battle cloak and the debate will start all over again.
The real humor is that the feds generally do not PvP versus the KDF as it is, unless one counts Kerrat, and have expressed no desire to do so on most days but would rather pvp versus other feds
So why is the cloaking device and the single console slot it uses now suddenly a handicap?
Frankly its not. The NPCs one fight do not care if you cloak.
The way that the Klingon Empire actually works ship names such as the IKS whatever would be up to the individual houses but as far as authority with such things as anything concerning the Empire as a whole like ship designs would either be up to the High Council or The Chancellor himself.
I think you have that backwards.
Interesting enough the way that Fleets operate, with you purchasing a ship from the fleet shipyard that is made by the resources of the fleet (House) is a fair approximation of how the Klingon system works. The most recent official source I've read says that each house purchases their ships custom made from the Klingon Fleetyards and then pledges those vessels to the Chancellor and the KDF.
So in this instance there appears to have been a design competition (Like between the F-16 and F-17 [which became the F-18]; or between the F-22 and F-23) to answer the Federation's new Avenger Class and the House of Martok's design won out, then Worf was allowed to name it.
Regardless of his personal standing with J'mpok, Klingons are pragmatic enough to put that kind of thing aside when there's a new war machine to put to action. If the House of Martok's design won then it won. And Martok's House still has enough support on the High Council that the Chancellor can't go against them. And he even offered his support when the House of Torg was out of line. So if Sirella gave Worf the choice and he named it the Mogh, there's not much else anyone can do about it, if the House of Martok debuted the ship.
Storywise, I'm pretty sure the only reason Feds weren't allowed to use cloaking technology was due to treaties with the Klingons and the Romulans. With the UFP at war with the KDF, all bets are off. With the Romulan Star Empire mostly obliterated, weak, and usurped by the rainbow giggles of the Romulan Republic, all bets should be off there as well.
In other words, there is no viable reason the Feds can't pursue cloaking technology from here on out. It's not like they haven't wanted the ability. They've been trying ever since Kirk stole a Romulan cloaking device in the Original Series. Riker's U.S.S. Pegasus was another stab at it.
One counter might be the whole "We're Feds and thus must be moral (Section 31, anybody?) and cloaking is immoral!" argument is the same kind of hogwash that got redcoats and patriots shot for standing around in line with bright red/blue jackets on rather than dying them different shades of green, hiding in the foliage, and taking pot shots . Camouflage is common sense and not pursuing it is a good way to end up conquered and wearing neckbolts.
It wasn't the Khitomer Accords, it was the Treaty of Algeron that outlawed cloaking devices in the Federation.
The lore actually says that the Federation actively stated after the Hobus Cataclysm that even though the Romulan Empire proper is shattered, that the Treaty still stands and that the Federation wasn't going to pursue cloaks. A dozen Starfleet Admirals punched holes in their walls.
It could be presumed that the cloaking ban has passed on to the Romulan Republic, and since the Republic Romulans that sided with the Federation can fly Warbirds, anything that needs a cloak, Starfleet can just send a Romulan.
More blather. We KDF have to buy the ship like you do and the cloak capabilities on the Avenger is a bonus for the feds (so you couldnt whine its not a real battle cruiser) since you are not suppossed to have any new cloaking vessels.
Hows Dorothy?
I'm actually confused about this. Cloak doesn't seem to be a prerequisite to having a battlecruiser. A battlecruiser is a ship with a battleship's weaponry and a cruiser's speed and maneuverability, but lacking a battleship's armor. To add a cloak would be to say this battlecruiser is also a submarine (or a SHIELD Helicarrier).
As Don'tDrunk said, cloaking is ultimately about positioning. With the exception of the Cloak Fire torpedo boats, the B'Rel Retrofit and the Fleet T'Varo Retrofit, and of course the Scimitar series, fighting while cloaked doesn't happen in the full scope of the battle.
I would think that a battlecruiser should be in the battle and not an ambush ship anyway. But that's just me.
That said the cloak becoming a device in the same vein as the Red Matter Capacitor would be very nice.
On the subject of power creep though I have an idea that's been thrown around. Add a fifth special forward slot on the Galaxy Dreadnaught for the Lance, and add new special lances in the fleet store that allows you to change the weapon type. A Fleet Antiproton Lance would be...popular. A Romulan Plasma Lance would also be nice to see.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
What you say about the cloak on the Avenger hits to the heart of why the fed cloaking device was made into a console from it original innate function. Cloak is only an option in PvE and many feds complained that the one less console was not worth having a cloak. So the Devs added an extra console to all fed cloakers and made the power removable.
Now thats not good enough for an ability found to be pointless in PvE and they want it innate again to keep the same console slots.
Why? What disadvantage does it give them in PvE versus the KDF?
None. This complaint is all a strawman arguement meant to gain for PvP. If given the next complaint will be its not a battle cloak and the debate will start all over again.
The real humor is that the feds generally do not PvP versus the KDF as it is, unless one counts Kerrat, and have expressed no desire to do so on most days but would rather pvp versus other feds
So why is the cloaking device and the single console slot it uses now suddenly a handicap?
Frankly its not. The NPCs one fight do not care if you cloak.
Mmm. Agreed, granted I don't play a lot of PvP content, just the odd 'shakedown' aganst a friend of mine to get a good test in for a new build here and there. As for PvE, I use an Avenger on my Fed Tac, I love it for him, it's a fairly solid ship which brings plenty of versatility. Now for SOME parts of SOME content I'll load a cloak, for example, the hanger inside of the Fortress ship in Breach. I'll load the cloak for that to slip by and rescue those first three ships more easily. Once the Hanger is cleared out though, I pull the thing out and slot my Shield Regen booster right back into place. Why? Because I really don't get these huge 'mythical' benefits that most other fed players seem to attach to cloaking. Honestly, at first, when I got my Defiant Retrofit I expected I'd be using Cloaking a lot more than I did in the end. Even then I barely if ever used it at all because it's really not that great a gimmick and the slot it takes up could be better used for another purpose.
Close to twelve months then, if we're counting the Kamarag/Fleet Kamarag.
Which I wasn't based on it not being a C-Store release.
You stated "the first KDF C-store ship in nearly two years" without specifying what counts, so ships like B'Rotlh and Qaw'Dun most definitely count as well, and they were released as recently as Legacy of Romulus.
Mmm. Agreed, granted I don't play a lot of PvP content, just the odd 'shakedown' aganst a friend of mine to get a good test in for a new build here and there. As for PvE, I use an Avenger on my Fed Tac, I love it for him, it's a fairly solid ship which brings plenty of versatility. Now for SOME parts of SOME content I'll load a cloak, for example, the hanger inside of the Fortress ship in Breach. I'll load the cloak for that to slip by and rescue those first three ships more easily. Once the Hanger is cleared out though, I pull the thing out and slot my Shield Regen booster right back into place. Why? Because I really don't get these huge 'mythical' benefits that most other fed players seem to attach to cloaking. Honestly, at first, when I got my Defiant Retrofit I expected I'd be using Cloaking a lot more than I did in the end. Even then I barely if ever used it at all because it's really not that great a gimmick and the slot it takes up could be better used for another purpose.
I have a Defiant retrofit w/cloak and the AGT Dreadnought on my fed toon. I love both ships. The Defiant hits like a sledgehammer and thanks to Doffs and AtB the Dreadnought is now also a contender in PvP.
I do not see where they fail due to having a console for cloak. True though they do play differently from the KDF which inturn play differently from Romulans.
Those differences are what makes STO fun.
I have a Defiant retrofit w/cloak and the AGT Dreadnought on my fed toon. I love both ships. The Defiant hits like a sledgehammer and thanks to Doffs and AtB the Dreadnought is now also a contender in PvP.
I do not see where they fail due to having a console for cloak. True though they do play differently from the KDF which inturn play differently from Romulans.
Those differences are what makes STO fun.
Exactly. Diversity in gameplay is a GOOD thing, it draws more people in and keeps people playing (and occasionally PAYING) longer. I know what you mean though about the Defiant Retro. The thing is a monster if set up right, and with someone backing you up who'll help keep you in the fight it get's even more fun because of that teamwork.
To get back on the general topic, the Mogh is really something which is long overdue imho for the KDF. It brings the 'traditional' firepower and resilliance of a Battlecruiser while also adding a new 'flavor' of the VATA for the KDF. I really only have one question, the 'mines' which the Tri-DS drops, are they like standard mines in that they take one shot and disappear? Or are they more resilliant so that they can linger a little and potentially do more damage before they either are destroyed or track a target and detonate?
As only the KDF had battle cruisers before the Avenger was released if the Avenger was released as the Fed Battle Cruiser without a cloak it would not have been recieved as an actual battle cruiser.
There would have been complaints.
Does this make the Starfleet vessels failures? No. Does it make them inferior? Yes. With the exception to the Avenger/Mogh, the Starfleet ships that cloak take real money compared to their (closest) KDF counterparts. And with the power creep, reliance on a console for that ability is a substantial cost; Fleet-Store consoles are incredibly good and having to give up one for any universal console is a tough choice. For the Avenger to equal the Mogh's tactical flexibility, it would have to sacrifice two. Now you've given up 1/5 of your possible buffs from consoles to use the abilities the ship was designed for, where as the counterpart does not.
Does this make the Starfleet vessels failures? No. Does it make them inferior? Yes. With the exception to the Avenger/Mogh, the Starfleet ships that cloak take real money compared to their (closest) KDF counterparts. And with the power creep, reliance on a console for that ability is a substantial cost; Fleet-Store consoles are incredibly good and having to give up one for any universal console is a tough choice. For the Avenger to equal the Mogh's tactical flexibility, it would have to sacrifice two. Now you've given up 1/5 of your possible buffs from consoles to use the abilities the ship was designed for, where as the counterpart does not.
This is a troubling precedence that has been set.
Then don't install a cloak into the Avenger, the ship really doesn't suffer from not having one.
Captains, please keep the conversation civil and constructive. It's okay to be passionate, but there is no need to resort to name calling. So I'll give everyone a chance to edit their posts of any offending material.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Enable auto-feature all insults will be edited and replaced using the word petaQ'. Its a universal insult and canon Also it could just be some people roleplaying as a tellarite.
Does this make the Starfleet vessels failures? No. Does it make them inferior? Yes. With the exception to the Avenger/Mogh, the Starfleet ships that cloak take real money compared to their (closest) KDF counterparts. And with the power creep, reliance on a console for that ability is a substantial cost; Fleet-Store consoles are incredibly good and having to give up one for any universal console is a tough choice. For the Avenger to equal the Mogh's tactical flexibility, it would have to sacrifice two. Now you've given up 1/5 of your possible buffs from consoles to use the abilities the ship was designed for, where as the counterpart does not.
This is a troubling precedence that has been set.
For some reason people think that just because the stats are similar the 2 ships should be identical. This is the actual troubling precedence.
The kdf invented battle cruisers. They get the better battle cruiser. The avenger, if anything, is a fed attempt to create a mogh(chronologically a tork, but if I said that, literalists would be all over me), a fed approximation of a mogh, if you will. It should not be equal. It is an option for feds to play something different. Fed cruisers are supposed to tank hull just like the sci vessels are supposed to tank shields.
Feds have no dedicated Offensive tanks that are really up to snuff. The avenger gives them that. Meanwhile, all kdf battlecruisers are designed to be Off tanks. Their Off tanks are superior, just like their ability to either hull or shield tank is about as existant as fed's ability to off tank.
This mogh and avenger are obviously related numerically, however, the role they fill is is unrelated. The mogh is not the KDF's avenger, it is the KDF's Vesta: A developed, superior model of a ship in a class unique to the faction.
For some reason people think that just because the stats are similar the 2 ships should be identical. This is the actual troubling precedence.
...
How is nobody getting this?
It's not a case of wanting identical ships, it's a case of wanting balance between the ships. The perceived standard has been, innate cloaking means you trade away some stats. But that standard has been turn on its ear and thrown out the window, atleast for KDF. This means the Avenger, which costs the same, is an inferior vessel. Which means in essence, people who purchased the Avenger have been gypped.
People say don't use the cloak console, but you are again then getting less for your money and investment. The Mogh has the option there, even if its unneeded, without giving up the console, or even having to buy another ship to get said console. Now factor in logistical cost. Fleet consoles are the best things out there now. You have to sacrifice passive bonuses, potential stats; the very price that KDF have cried that they pay for their cloaking, which no longer is the standard.
It's imbalance, a dire case of it at that, one that until it is rectified, I will be making no further C-Store vessel purchases. It worked for KDF Players.
Funny. My fleet Torkhat cost $20 cash to acquire as do all my fleet choices in KDF vessels.
Why? because the standard free KDF ship choices are not on par with their fed or romulan counter parts, regardless if they have innate cloaking.
So your fed Cstore ships are not good due to power creep is biased and wrong. They still function better than our free KDF ships.
Did we ***** and whine about it though? No. We asked for a balance pass for BoPs and queitly bought the better fleet store ships for cash.
Your still just stamping your feet and claiming lifes unfair when its not true.
Enable auto-feature all insults will be edited and replaced using the word petaQ'. Its a universal insult and canon Also it could just be some people roleplaying as a tellarite.
Or just ignore the insults. The insults of those with a mind childish enough to spew them aren't worth appealing to. They do it because someone said something they don't like, and they can't stand it. The best thing you can do is to keep saying what you were.
It's not a case of wanting identical ships, it's a case of wanting balance between the ships. The perceived standard has been, innate cloaking means you trade away some stats. But that standard has been turn on its ear and thrown out the window, atleast for KDF. This means the Avenger, which costs the same, is an inferior vessel. Which means in essence, people who purchased the Avenger have been gypped.
Balance can't work in a universe that has societies that canonically come out with more powerful stuff as time passes by. Of course the Mogh will be better than the Avenger, because logically, the KDF will want to trump the Fed's design.
Or just ignore the insults. The insults of those with a mind childish enough to spew them aren't worth appealing to. They do it because someone said something they don't like, and they can't stand it. The best thing you can do is to keep saying what you were.
Eh to me I am glad we are finally getting something
Hopefully this goes well enough to get more being pushed out. Although I was just joking in regard to the insults lol
Balance can't work in a universe that has societies that canonically come out with more powerful stuff as time passes by. Of course the Mogh will be better than the Avenger, because logically, the KDF will want to trump the Fed's design.
Which was, ultimately, how the Avenger was born - a ship to trump the KDF's Battlecruisers.
In fairness, this brings the STO world more in line with reality, where arms races escalate over time, especially during wartime.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Or just ignore the insults. The insults of those with a mind childish enough to spew them aren't worth appealing to. They do it because someone said something they don't like, and they can't stand it. The best thing you can do is to keep saying what you were.
I just dismiss certain posters outright as they have proven time and again to be nothing more than trolls, liars, and strawman debaters. bitemepwe is a shining example.
Balance can't work in a universe that has societies that canonically come out with more powerful stuff as time passes by. Of course the Mogh will be better than the Avenger, because logically, the KDF will want to trump the Fed's design.
You can't really use lore to justify game mechanics balance. Especially when it's a hot-on-your-heels one-up like this to all those who picked up the Avenger. If the gap between releases was longer, not so bad, but this is blatant P2W salesmanship here.
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What difference does that make in the middle of a mission? Is someone gonna go buy reinforcements or something?
Not the point I was making. I was trying to emphasise the posters' use of "again", as if every time the Fed get a ship, the Klinks get one that is a +1 version of the Fed one.
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I spaced the Bortas, thanks.
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Close to twelve months then, if we're counting the Kamarag/Fleet Kamarag.
Which I wasn't based on it not being a C-Store release.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
What you say about the cloak on the Avenger hits to the heart of why the fed cloaking device was made into a console from it original innate function. Cloak is only an option in PvE and many feds complained that the one less console was not worth having a cloak. So the Devs added an extra console to all fed cloakers and made the power removable.
Now thats not good enough for an ability found to be pointless in PvE and they want it innate again to keep the same console slots.
Why? What disadvantage does it give them in PvE versus the KDF?
None. This complaint is all a strawman arguement meant to gain for PvP. If given the next complaint will be its not a battle cloak and the debate will start all over again.
The real humor is that the feds generally do not PvP versus the KDF as it is, unless one counts Kerrat, and have expressed no desire to do so on most days but would rather pvp versus other feds
So why is the cloaking device and the single console slot it uses now suddenly a handicap?
Frankly its not. The NPCs one fight do not care if you cloak.
R.I.P
I think you have that backwards.
Interesting enough the way that Fleets operate, with you purchasing a ship from the fleet shipyard that is made by the resources of the fleet (House) is a fair approximation of how the Klingon system works. The most recent official source I've read says that each house purchases their ships custom made from the Klingon Fleetyards and then pledges those vessels to the Chancellor and the KDF.
So in this instance there appears to have been a design competition (Like between the F-16 and F-17 [which became the F-18]; or between the F-22 and F-23) to answer the Federation's new Avenger Class and the House of Martok's design won out, then Worf was allowed to name it.
Regardless of his personal standing with J'mpok, Klingons are pragmatic enough to put that kind of thing aside when there's a new war machine to put to action. If the House of Martok's design won then it won. And Martok's House still has enough support on the High Council that the Chancellor can't go against them. And he even offered his support when the House of Torg was out of line. So if Sirella gave Worf the choice and he named it the Mogh, there's not much else anyone can do about it, if the House of Martok debuted the ship. It wasn't the Khitomer Accords, it was the Treaty of Algeron that outlawed cloaking devices in the Federation.
The lore actually says that the Federation actively stated after the Hobus Cataclysm that even though the Romulan Empire proper is shattered, that the Treaty still stands and that the Federation wasn't going to pursue cloaks. A dozen Starfleet Admirals punched holes in their walls.
It could be presumed that the cloaking ban has passed on to the Romulan Republic, and since the Republic Romulans that sided with the Federation can fly Warbirds, anything that needs a cloak, Starfleet can just send a Romulan.
I'm actually confused about this. Cloak doesn't seem to be a prerequisite to having a battlecruiser. A battlecruiser is a ship with a battleship's weaponry and a cruiser's speed and maneuverability, but lacking a battleship's armor. To add a cloak would be to say this battlecruiser is also a submarine (or a SHIELD Helicarrier).
As Don'tDrunk said, cloaking is ultimately about positioning. With the exception of the Cloak Fire torpedo boats, the B'Rel Retrofit and the Fleet T'Varo Retrofit, and of course the Scimitar series, fighting while cloaked doesn't happen in the full scope of the battle.
I would think that a battlecruiser should be in the battle and not an ambush ship anyway. But that's just me.
That said the cloak becoming a device in the same vein as the Red Matter Capacitor would be very nice.
On the subject of power creep though I have an idea that's been thrown around. Add a fifth special forward slot on the Galaxy Dreadnaught for the Lance, and add new special lances in the fleet store that allows you to change the weapon type. A Fleet Antiproton Lance would be...popular. A Romulan Plasma Lance would also be nice to see.
first end game ship :rolleyes:
I hear the Borg have been raging in the collective forum about OP ships.
The statement was "this is the first KDF C-store ship in nearly two years". He said nothing about anything being an "endgame" ship.
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I have a Defiant retrofit w/cloak and the AGT Dreadnought on my fed toon. I love both ships. The Defiant hits like a sledgehammer and thanks to Doffs and AtB the Dreadnought is now also a contender in PvP.
I do not see where they fail due to having a console for cloak. True though they do play differently from the KDF which inturn play differently from Romulans.
Those differences are what makes STO fun.
R.I.P
Exactly. Diversity in gameplay is a GOOD thing, it draws more people in and keeps people playing (and occasionally PAYING) longer. I know what you mean though about the Defiant Retro. The thing is a monster if set up right, and with someone backing you up who'll help keep you in the fight it get's even more fun because of that teamwork.
To get back on the general topic, the Mogh is really something which is long overdue imho for the KDF. It brings the 'traditional' firepower and resilliance of a Battlecruiser while also adding a new 'flavor' of the VATA for the KDF. I really only have one question, the 'mines' which the Tri-DS drops, are they like standard mines in that they take one shot and disappear? Or are they more resilliant so that they can linger a little and potentially do more damage before they either are destroyed or track a target and detonate?
As only the KDF had battle cruisers before the Avenger was released if the Avenger was released as the Fed Battle Cruiser without a cloak it would not have been recieved as an actual battle cruiser.
There would have been complaints.
R.I.P
This is a troubling precedence that has been set.
Then don't install a cloak into the Avenger, the ship really doesn't suffer from not having one.
Enable auto-feature all insults will be edited and replaced using the word petaQ'. Its a universal insult and canon
For some reason people think that just because the stats are similar the 2 ships should be identical. This is the actual troubling precedence.
The kdf invented battle cruisers. They get the better battle cruiser. The avenger, if anything, is a fed attempt to create a mogh(chronologically a tork, but if I said that, literalists would be all over me), a fed approximation of a mogh, if you will. It should not be equal. It is an option for feds to play something different. Fed cruisers are supposed to tank hull just like the sci vessels are supposed to tank shields.
Feds have no dedicated Offensive tanks that are really up to snuff. The avenger gives them that. Meanwhile, all kdf battlecruisers are designed to be Off tanks. Their Off tanks are superior, just like their ability to either hull or shield tank is about as existant as fed's ability to off tank.
This mogh and avenger are obviously related numerically, however, the role they fill is is unrelated. The mogh is not the KDF's avenger, it is the KDF's Vesta: A developed, superior model of a ship in a class unique to the faction.
How is nobody getting this?
It's not a case of wanting identical ships, it's a case of wanting balance between the ships. The perceived standard has been, innate cloaking means you trade away some stats. But that standard has been turn on its ear and thrown out the window, atleast for KDF. This means the Avenger, which costs the same, is an inferior vessel. Which means in essence, people who purchased the Avenger have been gypped.
People say don't use the cloak console, but you are again then getting less for your money and investment. The Mogh has the option there, even if its unneeded, without giving up the console, or even having to buy another ship to get said console. Now factor in logistical cost. Fleet consoles are the best things out there now. You have to sacrifice passive bonuses, potential stats; the very price that KDF have cried that they pay for their cloaking, which no longer is the standard.
It's imbalance, a dire case of it at that, one that until it is rectified, I will be making no further C-Store vessel purchases. It worked for KDF Players.
Why? because the standard free KDF ship choices are not on par with their fed or romulan counter parts, regardless if they have innate cloaking.
So your fed Cstore ships are not good due to power creep is biased and wrong. They still function better than our free KDF ships.
Did we ***** and whine about it though? No. We asked for a balance pass for BoPs and queitly bought the better fleet store ships for cash.
Your still just stamping your feet and claiming lifes unfair when its not true.
R.I.P
Balance can't work in a universe that has societies that canonically come out with more powerful stuff as time passes by. Of course the Mogh will be better than the Avenger, because logically, the KDF will want to trump the Fed's design.
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Eh to me I am glad we are finally getting something
Hopefully this goes well enough to get more being pushed out. Although I was just joking in regard to the insults lol
I think we should also get new skins for each KDF ship as well, but that's jmo.
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Which was, ultimately, how the Avenger was born - a ship to trump the KDF's Battlecruisers.
In fairness, this brings the STO world more in line with reality, where arms races escalate over time, especially during wartime.
I just dismiss certain posters outright as they have proven time and again to be nothing more than trolls, liars, and strawman debaters. bitemepwe is a shining example.
You can't really use lore to justify game mechanics balance. Especially when it's a hot-on-your-heels one-up like this to all those who picked up the Avenger. If the gap between releases was longer, not so bad, but this is blatant P2W salesmanship here.