Except when the Vet ships were released KDF Vet ship (and Rom Vet ship) both got battle cloaks with a cost - lower shield mod.
Or rather the Fed ship had a higher shield mod.
Except that is tossed out the window here, and the KDF gets a 100% exact clone of the Fed ship, but also gets a cloak out of the deal - no loss of shield mod, no compromises.
Just a superior version, with no other differences.
Agree, but I learn to not waste time trying argue about balance with players that want their class/faction/ship to be the best.
But thats story balance, I want mechanical balance. Too many years playing tabletop maybe, but like if I'm building a ship from a 100-point pool, if I spend 5 points on a cloaking device, I should have to give up 5 points somewhere else. Everyone builds their own ships from that same 100-point pool but goes in wildly different directions based on theme, end of the day they're still 100-point ships and balance out. But one faction gets 110 points because Story? That isn't right.
And one faction gets to skirt the grey areas of the game and recieve another cloak capable ship even though they not suppossed to get one at all.
Balance is achieved.
Dont worry though, this little bit of attention to the KDF will not diminish the fact that the Feds are the center of STO and already posses more content, ships and nick nacks then the other factions.
the +10 extra story points feds get is not having to pay for a single tier of science vessel.
And in turn KDF doesn't have to pay for a science carrier or for a ship with universal slots. Still 100 point ships all around. Free vs free they stack up just fine (hell I'd argue my KDF toons are better off than my Fed ones aside from C-store options). Yeah there's some p2w ships in the last year or so, but you're incorrect in assuming I dislike one but approve of the other.
100 points should be the goal no matter what color the UI. If you want more faction diversity, then just have Feds spend with a little heavier emphasis on durability, Klingons on speed, Roms on science (all hypothetical of course), but keep them all 100-point ships.
Just be glad the avenger can cloak at all Its the first ship on the federation side that can cloak that didn't have a ship do it in canon ( where the federation in STO suddenly acquired all those hundreds of romulan cloaking devices for its defiant class ships is another story entirely )
At the end of the day ,I fail to see how it makes such a massive difference , so the Mogh has an innate cloak and the Avenger doesn't .. wow.
Like what has been said before , its a Federation cruiser that can use Dual heavy cannons , isn't that enough ?
And in turn KDF doesn't have to pay for a science carrier or for a ship with universal slots. Still 100 point ships all around. Free vs free they stack up just fine (hell I'd argue my KDF toons are better off than my Fed ones aside from C-store options). Yeah there's some p2w ships in the last year or so, but you're incorrect in assuming I dislike one but approve of the other.
100 points should be the goal no matter what color the UI. If you want more faction diversity, then just have Feds spend with a little heavier emphasis on durability, Klingons on speed, Roms on science (all hypothetical of course), but keep them all 100-point ships.
In theory, I would support the idea that fed be traditionally engineering heavy, kdf tac, and rom sci. That would be glorious. But the game wasn't designed around that and hasn't developed around that. Were any steps made to redisgn toward this, the forums would rage so red hot that ones' eyeballs wouldn't just burst into flame but instead instantly vaporize from reading a single thread, as opposed to now where your brain will just melt into a gray pudding and ooze out your agape mouth between gobs of drool after an afternoon spent browsing the forums as a whole.
Also, the science carrier doesn't cloak and is outclassed by every other carrier in game. People still haven't decided if raiders are OP or need a buff yet, both camps are as equally polaized as they are stimulated by the incoming buff, so no comment on that point, it's kind of moot.
Although, now that I think about it, technically, those roles are already filled. Fed has more access to science and engineering vessels than the other factions, possibly even combined, most of which are already superior to their few factional counterparts. Fed are better tanks already. Ditto for KDF and dps output, nobody can reach optimal dps output as easily as a KDF officer, especially with this new ship you're arguing against. And then there's Roms. They like to play, too. They even got some built in caster powers that are all pretty much science powers minus the blue, so I guess they're sort of almost science based. Silly Roms.
Anyway, parts of your argument are logical, but as we go further in depth, it contradicts itself. It seems as if you believe every faction should be profession-biased in one form or another, but this release bypasses (really more like "skirts" or "calls into question") balance in a way that furthers that model and you disprove of it because of a perceived technicality. Consider this.
And one faction gets to skirt the grey areas of the game and recieve another cloak capable ship even though they not suppossed to get one at all.
Balance is achieved.
Dont worry though, this little bit of attention to the KDF will not diminish the fact that the Feds are the center of STO and already posses more content, ships and nick nacks then the other factions.
Is funny how some call canon to improve their ships, but if we are going to use canon then make the Defiant and Prometheus the best escorts this game can have, and make the Sove so overpower than can take a hole fleet of BOPs. Scimatar should be even more overpower.. but no.. we call canon when it suits us.
Is this ship better than the Avanger? Yes
Is this ship balanced with Avanger? No
But the thing that worrie me even more, is the fact that the symbolic and canon KDF ships are even more death now.. poor Vorcha, so beautiful and so outdated.
Congrats to my KDF allies, Qapla is how i think you say it!
Great ship Cryptic, i like the new console idea!
*tosses out sponge* here fed guys, wipe up the foam dripping from you lips in this topic. In 2 months we will have forgotten how op the ships was, mainly because kdf captains will use it and not plow through the feds, like you "its not balanced" guys think it is.
New home of the Romulan Republic.
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
Just had to LOL at this comment. I passed on the Avenger and am passing on the Mogh as well. I'm sticking with my Fleet Tor'kaht, the VATA seems gimmicky but that's the case for all the Z-Store ships. I'm already close to the ship limit on my 3 main characters anyway.
That means I can save my precious dil for Spire stuff and maybe a touch more Fleet gear, and rebuild my ZEN balance to spend on some bridge packs... assuming Cryptic ever gets around to making them :rolleyes:
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
Just be glad the avenger can cloak at all Its the first ship on the federation side that can cloak that didn't have a ship do it in canon ( where the federation in STO suddenly acquired all those hundreds of romulan cloaking devices for its defiant class ships is another story entirely )
At the end of the day ,I fail to see how it makes such a massive difference , so the Mogh has an innate cloak and the Avenger doesn't .. wow.
Like what has been said before , its a Federation cruiser that can use Dual heavy cannons , isn't that enough ?
No, it's not, because the avenger (the 1-to-1 of the mogh) is STILL an inferior ship either way. The avenger also has lower hull and general durability than traditional federation cruisers to bring it in line with standards of the kdf battlecruiser line, so the DHC compatibility is not an acceptable argument. Now 5/3 is a lot more specialized of a loadout than 4/4, so the kdf players were understandably angry that the feds got a more specialized battlecruiser, and that's why you're getting the mogh! Now you have it too and can use that specialization. And if that were the same as the avenger, the feds would be fine. But it's not, it's an objectively superior ship than the one we have and already paid for, and THAT'S why we're mad.
Storywise, I'm pretty sure the only reason Feds weren't allowed to use cloaking technology was due to treaties with the Klingons and the Romulans. With the UFP at war with the KDF, all bets are off. With the Romulan Star Empire mostly obliterated, weak, and usurped by the rainbow giggles of the Romulan Republic, all bets should be off there as well.
In other words, there is no viable reason the Feds can't pursue cloaking technology from here on out. It's not like they haven't wanted the ability. They've been trying ever since Kirk stole a Romulan cloaking device in the Original Series. Riker's U.S.S. Pegasus was another stab at it.
One counter might be the whole "We're Feds and thus must be moral (Section 31, anybody?) and cloaking is immoral!" argument is the same kind of hogwash that got redcoats and patriots shot for standing around in line with bright red/blue jackets on rather than dying them different shades of green, hiding in the foliage, and taking pot shots . Camouflage is common sense and not pursuing it is a good way to end up conquered and wearing neckbolts.
That said, I like the Mogh. It's a good ship and looks tough. If I could actually stomach being associated with the KDF whiner babies and played my Klingon as anything more than a dilithium mule, I'd actually consider buying this. What bothers me, however, is that the Mogh is clearly an Avenger+ and the entire KDF playerbase is frothing at the mouth screaming "OMGWEDESERVEBETTERSHIPSTHANYOUYOUENTITLEDSILVERSPOONEDJERKSGODIEINAFIREBECAUSEWEDESERVEEVERYTHINGBETTERTHANYOU!"
Your victim mentality is no longer warranted, amusing, or cute. Grow up.
But then, I'll just be dismissed as a silver-spooned entitled Fed fanboy because I'm not a poor, underprivileged, horrifically abused KDF fanboy and the cycle continues.
Dont worry though, this little bit of attention to the KDF will not diminish the fact that the Feds are the center of STO and already posses more content, ships and nick nacks then the other factions.
You've been singing this song for like 3 years now, I think it's well beyond time to accept this fact. Clearly Starfleet is the main draw of Star Trek Online, being the focus of 5-6 TV shows (depends if you count TAS), 12 movies (and counting), numerous books being printed, and plenty of cringe-inducing poorly produced YouTube "shows".
But the thing that worrie me even more, is the fact that the symbolic and canon KDF ships are even more death now.. poor Vorcha, so beautiful and so outdated.
Two things: 1) It's 2409, and it has been 2409 for about 3 years now. The forward march of technology makes sense and the Fleet ships, money-grubbing nonsense that they are, do help the older ships keep up. 2) Fleet Tor'kaht can wear the Vor'cha costume and is certainly not outdated. Prior to the Mogh's introduction I'd argue it was the KDF's answer to the Avenger minus the VATA silliness.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
No, it's not, because the avenger (the 1-to-1 of the mogh) is STILL an inferior ship either way. The avenger also has lower hull and general durability that traditional federation cruisers to bring it in line with standards of the kdf battlecruiser line, so the DHC compatibility is not an acceptable argument. Now 5/3 is a lot more specialized of a loadout than 4/4, so the kdf players were understandably angry that the feds got a more specialized battlecruiser, and that's why you're getting the mogh! Now you have it too and can use that specialization. And if that were the same as the avenger, the feds would be fine. But it's not, it's an objectively superior ship than the one we have and already paid for, and THAT'S why we're mad.
TBH some people are going to find some reason they don't like it but the highlight of it is that it offers the 5 fore weapons as well as being the first c-store ship option in 2 years. So its so much more when it has the potential to get more ships made for the KDF. So overall the opportunity for purchasing this ship if it goes far enough could go out to getting Cryptic to make the kind of ships you'd rather see out there. Atleast for a starter we are getting our first 5 fore weapon ship.
So if i'm understanding the DDDS, it fires a warhead that drops what is basically an armed mine every few seconds, which itself fires a certain type of beam and then chases the target like a normal mine?
That is correct. The general gameplay flow is like this:
1) Warhead is fired at target
2) Warhead drops a pair of Defense Pods every few seconds
2) Defense pods fire a beam at a random target within 10km every few seconds that deals minor damage
3) Warhead impacts with target and explodes
4) Defense Pods continue to fire for a short time and will track and detonate like a standard mine if one of the two conditions are true:
-An enemy is within 2.5 km
-Time passes and the defense pods haven't exploded yet
I have a question about the stats: What's a Tachyon beam array?
It mentions that one of the modes fires tachyon beams that function the same as a "tachyon beam array"...
Good question! A Tachyon Beam Array isn't a standard weapon, so I understand the confusion. This weapon will fire a Tachyon beam at its target every few seconds that damage shields. That description could have been made a little more clear.
What is the inertia?
50.
Klingons cloak. We as a faction get innate cloaking on most of our ships and battle cloaking on our Raiders. Its been the norm since before the game went live.
Correct. Standard Cloak isn't enough to warrant reducing the effectiveness of this ship or improving the Avenger in my opinion. The massive advantage that the Avenger has is that it gives fed players the ability to fly a faction specific battlecruiser, which is a ship class previously unavailable to them.
To give you a bit of insight into both how the Avenger and Mogh were created. When we make new ships we want to make them attractive and as balanced as possible. When creating the Avenger Battlecruiser I initially tried balancing it around Starfleet cruisers. This led me to a dead end, as a battlecruiser it would end being way too similar to existing fed cruisers and not be comparable to kdf battlecruisers and that was ultimately my goal.
So, I began listing out all the tier 5 kdf battlecruiser stats side by side (along with a few choice fed cruisers) and found a niche that hadn't been hit by either faction. That's where the Avenger's stats came from, and ultimately the Mogh. It was always the plan to release a kdf equivalent of the Avenger.
Ultimately though, some concessions had to be made for the Avenger, which in my opinion is a super rock solid ship. It's starfleet, so it shouldn't have cloak without some cost. This precedence has been set with both the Galaxy X and the Tactical Escort Retrofit. It would be a slippery slope to start giving fed ships free cloaking devices.
Except when the Vet ships were released KDF Vet ship (and Rom Vet ship) both got battle cloaks with a cost - lower shield mod.
Or rather the Fed ship had a higher shield mod.
Except that is tossed out the window here, and the KDF gets a 100% exact clone of the Fed ship, but also gets a cloak out of the deal - no loss of shield mod, no compromises.
The example you're giving is true for Fed Escorts and KDF Raptors, but KDF Battlecruisers do not have this drawback. Had I reduced the shield mod on the Mogh, it would be an inferior ship to the Avenger and players would be making different suggestions now.
Had we reduced the Mogh's shield modifier it would have the lowest shield modifier of any Tier 5 KDF battlecruiser making it less desirable.
Had we given the Avenger Cloak, we'd embark on a slippery slope where similar fed ships would be expected to have cloak.
Had we given the Mogh less crew, it would be inconsistent with KDF battlecruisers as they have large crews:
-Vor'cha has 1500
-Negh'Var has 2500
-Tor'Kaht has 1500
-Kamarag has 700
Dunno if 'mad' is quite the right word. More 'eye rolling,' especially at those completely freaking out that someone might disagree with what they feel they're entitled to. Math doesn't add up, whether its hundred-point advantage or just one point, balance is balance. So don't put me in the Mad category at least (or Fed category, for that matter), just someone who thinks its a poor mechanical decision.
Well, with this, KDF can never again claim they are the unloved, neglected, redheaded blacksheep of the community. Cryptic broke the supposed balance with this one pretty loudly.
I'm going second the motion posited by KillDozer9211, if Cryptic is going to start making copypasta ships for each faction, let us please have $50 bundles that include all three ships from each of the factions.
An exxample of said $50 bundle would include the Avenger, Mogh, and a Romulan Warbird variant.
Thanks.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
That said, I like the Mogh. It's a good ship and looks tough. If I could actually stomach being associated with the KDF whiner babies and played my Klingon as anything more than a dilithium mule, I'd actually consider buying this. What bothers me, however, is that the Mogh is clearly an Avenger+ and the entire KDF playerbase is frothing at the mouth screaming "OMGWEDESERVEBETTERSHIPSTHANYOUYOUENTITLEDSILVERSPOONEDJERKSGODIEINAFIREBECAUSEWEDESERVEEVERYTHINGBETTERTHANYOU!"
Your victim mentality is no longer warranted, amusing, or cute. Grow up.
But then, I'll just be dismissed as a silver-spooned entitled Fed fanboy because I'm not a poor, underprivileged, horrifically abused KDF fanboy and the cycle continues.
Way to capture the spirit of the United Federation of Planets and Starfleet with this post. ... You have done your UFP-player base proud.
Well, with this, KDF can never again claim they are the unloved, neglected, redheaded blacksheep of the community. Cryptic broke the supposed balance with this one pretty loudly.
To a point it could be said with the avenger and nothing for 2 years to the c-store until now. Basically to put it on par with the federation and this is just my opinion but when it comes to the kdf I would say a c-store vor'cha, negh'var, and 2 c-store raptors, that would put it on par with federation cruisers that have special items with their c-store ships which the KDF does not. Then maybe a vesta equal after that then it would be pretty much balanced at that point. Not trying to whine or complain but it is what it is. I'm just hoping the flanking thing is coming out for the bops tommorrow too.
The Mogh is better than the Avenger. Deal with it. Complaining about it makes you look like a mach be'Hom.
Actually ... This is the way it normally plays out ....
The Federation players complaining represent a very vocal group that will carry on as they are until finally they get heard and the other faction's ship(s) get nerfed until they are sub-standard ... or until they get something better which amounts to about the same thing.
I hope that does not happen in this case, but ... :: shrugs
The example you're giving is true for Fed Escorts and KDF Raptors, but KDF Battlecruisers do not have this drawback. Had I reduced the shield mod on the Mogh, it would be an inferior ship to the Avenger and players would be making different suggestions now.
Had we reduced the Mogh's shield modifier it would have the lowest shield modifier of any Tier 5 KDF battlecruiser making it less desirable.
Had we given the Avenger Cloak, we'd embark on a slippery slope where similar fed ships would be expected to have cloak.
Had we given the Mogh less crew, it would be inconsistent with KDF battlecruisers as they have large crews:
-Vor'cha has 1500
-Negh'Var has 2500
-Tor'Kaht has 1500
-Kamarag has 700
That's the thing people don't seem to be getting here - lining up KDF and Fed ships at the launch of Free to Play, the KDF side has always been a little better than the Feds. The influx of 2 years worth of C-Store ships chipped away at it, so it's easy to not see that now, but in the beginning, that was the case. The KDF ships have always had better consoles and slightly better stats, even discounting the cloak, which basically is a free perk. The Mogh fits the mold pretty much perfectly.
Ultimately though, some concessions had to be made for the Avenger, which in my opinion is a super rock solid ship. It's starfleet, so it shouldn't have cloak without some cost. This precedence has been set with both the Galaxy X and the Tactical Escort Retrofit. It would be a slippery slope to start giving fed ships free cloaking devices.
I think its an equally slippery slope to favor one faction mechanically when creating identical ships.
The example you're giving is true for Fed Escorts and KDF Raptors, but KDF Battlecruisers do not have this drawback. Had I reduced the shield mod on the Mogh, it would be an inferior ship to the Avenger and players would be making different suggestions now.
Had we reduced the Mogh's shield modifier it would have the lowest shield modifier of any Tier 5 KDF battlecruiser making it less desirable.
Had we given the Avenger Cloak, we'd embark on a slippery slope where similar fed ships would be expected to have cloak.
Had we given the Mogh less crew, it would be inconsistent with KDF battlecruisers as they have large crews:
-Vor'cha has 1500
-Negh'Var has 2500
-Tor'Kaht has 1500
-Kamarag has 700
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
So what, mechanically, do Fed ships get as their Faction special ability?
We get it, its not cloaking. OK, so what exactly is it?
You could have given the avenger something else to separate it mechanically from the Mogh, something that gives it a uniquely Fed spin/advantage to it.
Comments
Agree, but I learn to not waste time trying argue about balance with players that want their class/faction/ship to be the best.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
And one faction gets to skirt the grey areas of the game and recieve another cloak capable ship even though they not suppossed to get one at all.
Balance is achieved.
Dont worry though, this little bit of attention to the KDF will not diminish the fact that the Feds are the center of STO and already posses more content, ships and nick nacks then the other factions.
R.I.P
And in turn KDF doesn't have to pay for a science carrier or for a ship with universal slots. Still 100 point ships all around. Free vs free they stack up just fine (hell I'd argue my KDF toons are better off than my Fed ones aside from C-store options). Yeah there's some p2w ships in the last year or so, but you're incorrect in assuming I dislike one but approve of the other.
100 points should be the goal no matter what color the UI. If you want more faction diversity, then just have Feds spend with a little heavier emphasis on durability, Klingons on speed, Roms on science (all hypothetical of course), but keep them all 100-point ships.
At the end of the day ,I fail to see how it makes such a massive difference , so the Mogh has an innate cloak and the Avenger doesn't .. wow.
Like what has been said before , its a Federation cruiser that can use Dual heavy cannons , isn't that enough ?
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
In theory, I would support the idea that fed be traditionally engineering heavy, kdf tac, and rom sci. That would be glorious. But the game wasn't designed around that and hasn't developed around that. Were any steps made to redisgn toward this, the forums would rage so red hot that ones' eyeballs wouldn't just burst into flame but instead instantly vaporize from reading a single thread, as opposed to now where your brain will just melt into a gray pudding and ooze out your agape mouth between gobs of drool after an afternoon spent browsing the forums as a whole.
Also, the science carrier doesn't cloak and is outclassed by every other carrier in game. People still haven't decided if raiders are OP or need a buff yet, both camps are as equally polaized as they are stimulated by the incoming buff, so no comment on that point, it's kind of moot.
Although, now that I think about it, technically, those roles are already filled. Fed has more access to science and engineering vessels than the other factions, possibly even combined, most of which are already superior to their few factional counterparts. Fed are better tanks already. Ditto for KDF and dps output, nobody can reach optimal dps output as easily as a KDF officer, especially with this new ship you're arguing against. And then there's Roms. They like to play, too. They even got some built in caster powers that are all pretty much science powers minus the blue, so I guess they're sort of almost science based. Silly Roms.
Anyway, parts of your argument are logical, but as we go further in depth, it contradicts itself. It seems as if you believe every faction should be profession-biased in one form or another, but this release bypasses (really more like "skirts" or "calls into question") balance in a way that furthers that model and you disprove of it because of a perceived technicality. Consider this.
What is the inertia?
Is funny how some call canon to improve their ships, but if we are going to use canon then make the Defiant and Prometheus the best escorts this game can have, and make the Sove so overpower than can take a hole fleet of BOPs. Scimatar should be even more overpower.. but no.. we call canon when it suits us.
Is this ship better than the Avanger? Yes
Is this ship balanced with Avanger? No
But the thing that worrie me even more, is the fact that the symbolic and canon KDF ships are even more death now.. poor Vorcha, so beautiful and so outdated.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Great ship Cryptic, i like the new console idea!
*tosses out sponge* here fed guys, wipe up the foam dripping from you lips in this topic. In 2 months we will have forgotten how op the ships was, mainly because kdf captains will use it and not plow through the feds, like you "its not balanced" guys think it is.
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
Just had to LOL at this comment. I passed on the Avenger and am passing on the Mogh as well. I'm sticking with my Fleet Tor'kaht, the VATA seems gimmicky but that's the case for all the Z-Store ships. I'm already close to the ship limit on my 3 main characters anyway.
That means I can save my precious dil for Spire stuff and maybe a touch more Fleet gear, and rebuild my ZEN balance to spend on some bridge packs... assuming Cryptic ever gets around to making them :rolleyes:
No, it's not, because the avenger (the 1-to-1 of the mogh) is STILL an inferior ship either way. The avenger also has lower hull and general durability than traditional federation cruisers to bring it in line with standards of the kdf battlecruiser line, so the DHC compatibility is not an acceptable argument. Now 5/3 is a lot more specialized of a loadout than 4/4, so the kdf players were understandably angry that the feds got a more specialized battlecruiser, and that's why you're getting the mogh! Now you have it too and can use that specialization. And if that were the same as the avenger, the feds would be fine. But it's not, it's an objectively superior ship than the one we have and already paid for, and THAT'S why we're mad.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
In other words, there is no viable reason the Feds can't pursue cloaking technology from here on out. It's not like they haven't wanted the ability. They've been trying ever since Kirk stole a Romulan cloaking device in the Original Series. Riker's U.S.S. Pegasus was another stab at it.
One counter might be the whole "We're Feds and thus must be moral (Section 31, anybody?) and cloaking is immoral!" argument is the same kind of hogwash that got redcoats and patriots shot for standing around in line with bright red/blue jackets on rather than dying them different shades of green, hiding in the foliage, and taking pot shots . Camouflage is common sense and not pursuing it is a good way to end up conquered and wearing neckbolts.
That said, I like the Mogh. It's a good ship and looks tough. If I could actually stomach being associated with the KDF whiner babies and played my Klingon as anything more than a dilithium mule, I'd actually consider buying this. What bothers me, however, is that the Mogh is clearly an Avenger+ and the entire KDF playerbase is frothing at the mouth screaming "OMGWEDESERVEBETTERSHIPSTHANYOUYOUENTITLEDSILVERSPOONEDJERKSGODIEINAFIREBECAUSEWEDESERVEEVERYTHINGBETTERTHANYOU!"
Your victim mentality is no longer warranted, amusing, or cute. Grow up.
But then, I'll just be dismissed as a silver-spooned entitled Fed fanboy because I'm not a poor, underprivileged, horrifically abused KDF fanboy and the cycle continues.
You've been singing this song for like 3 years now, I think it's well beyond time to accept this fact. Clearly Starfleet is the main draw of Star Trek Online, being the focus of 5-6 TV shows (depends if you count TAS), 12 movies (and counting), numerous books being printed, and plenty of cringe-inducing poorly produced YouTube "shows".
Two things: 1) It's 2409, and it has been 2409 for about 3 years now. The forward march of technology makes sense and the Fleet ships, money-grubbing nonsense that they are, do help the older ships keep up. 2) Fleet Tor'kaht can wear the Vor'cha costume and is certainly not outdated. Prior to the Mogh's introduction I'd argue it was the KDF's answer to the Avenger minus the VATA silliness.
TBH some people are going to find some reason they don't like it but the highlight of it is that it offers the 5 fore weapons as well as being the first c-store ship option in 2 years. So its so much more when it has the potential to get more ships made for the KDF. So overall the opportunity for purchasing this ship if it goes far enough could go out to getting Cryptic to make the kind of ships you'd rather see out there. Atleast for a starter we are getting our first 5 fore weapon ship.
That is correct. The general gameplay flow is like this:
1) Warhead is fired at target
2) Warhead drops a pair of Defense Pods every few seconds
2) Defense pods fire a beam at a random target within 10km every few seconds that deals minor damage
3) Warhead impacts with target and explodes
4) Defense Pods continue to fire for a short time and will track and detonate like a standard mine if one of the two conditions are true:
-An enemy is within 2.5 km
-Time passes and the defense pods haven't exploded yet
Good question! A Tachyon Beam Array isn't a standard weapon, so I understand the confusion. This weapon will fire a Tachyon beam at its target every few seconds that damage shields. That description could have been made a little more clear.
50.
Correct. Standard Cloak isn't enough to warrant reducing the effectiveness of this ship or improving the Avenger in my opinion. The massive advantage that the Avenger has is that it gives fed players the ability to fly a faction specific battlecruiser, which is a ship class previously unavailable to them.
To give you a bit of insight into both how the Avenger and Mogh were created. When we make new ships we want to make them attractive and as balanced as possible. When creating the Avenger Battlecruiser I initially tried balancing it around Starfleet cruisers. This led me to a dead end, as a battlecruiser it would end being way too similar to existing fed cruisers and not be comparable to kdf battlecruisers and that was ultimately my goal.
So, I began listing out all the tier 5 kdf battlecruiser stats side by side (along with a few choice fed cruisers) and found a niche that hadn't been hit by either faction. That's where the Avenger's stats came from, and ultimately the Mogh. It was always the plan to release a kdf equivalent of the Avenger.
Ultimately though, some concessions had to be made for the Avenger, which in my opinion is a super rock solid ship. It's starfleet, so it shouldn't have cloak without some cost. This precedence has been set with both the Galaxy X and the Tactical Escort Retrofit. It would be a slippery slope to start giving fed ships free cloaking devices.
The example you're giving is true for Fed Escorts and KDF Raptors, but KDF Battlecruisers do not have this drawback. Had I reduced the shield mod on the Mogh, it would be an inferior ship to the Avenger and players would be making different suggestions now.
Had we reduced the Mogh's shield modifier it would have the lowest shield modifier of any Tier 5 KDF battlecruiser making it less desirable.
Had we given the Avenger Cloak, we'd embark on a slippery slope where similar fed ships would be expected to have cloak.
Had we given the Mogh less crew, it would be inconsistent with KDF battlecruisers as they have large crews:
-Vor'cha has 1500
-Negh'Var has 2500
-Tor'Kaht has 1500
-Kamarag has 700
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Dunno if 'mad' is quite the right word. More 'eye rolling,' especially at those completely freaking out that someone might disagree with what they feel they're entitled to. Math doesn't add up, whether its hundred-point advantage or just one point, balance is balance. So don't put me in the Mad category at least (or Fed category, for that matter), just someone who thinks its a poor mechanical decision.
An exxample of said $50 bundle would include the Avenger, Mogh, and a Romulan Warbird variant.
Thanks.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Way to capture the spirit of the United Federation of Planets and Starfleet with this post.
::: facepalm ....
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
To a point it could be said with the avenger and nothing for 2 years to the c-store until now. Basically to put it on par with the federation and this is just my opinion but when it comes to the kdf I would say a c-store vor'cha, negh'var, and 2 c-store raptors, that would put it on par with federation cruisers that have special items with their c-store ships which the KDF does not. Then maybe a vesta equal after that then it would be pretty much balanced at that point. Not trying to whine or complain but it is what it is. I'm just hoping the flanking thing is coming out for the bops tommorrow too.
Actually ... This is the way it normally plays out ....
The Federation players complaining represent a very vocal group that will carry on as they are until finally they get heard and the other faction's ship(s) get nerfed until they are sub-standard ... or until they get something better which amounts to about the same thing.
I hope that does not happen in this case, but ... :: shrugs
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
That's the thing people don't seem to be getting here - lining up KDF and Fed ships at the launch of Free to Play, the KDF side has always been a little better than the Feds. The influx of 2 years worth of C-Store ships chipped away at it, so it's easy to not see that now, but in the beginning, that was the case. The KDF ships have always had better consoles and slightly better stats, even discounting the cloak, which basically is a free perk. The Mogh fits the mold pretty much perfectly.
I think its an equally slippery slope to favor one faction mechanically when creating identical ships.
So what, mechanically, do Fed ships get as their Faction special ability?
We get it, its not cloaking. OK, so what exactly is it?
You could have given the avenger something else to separate it mechanically from the Mogh, something that gives it a uniquely Fed spin/advantage to it.
I think the answer to that is pretty clear - about three times as many ships to choose from.