So where is our Vesta counterpart? Oh yeah we don't get one, we got over it. We got a slightly, insignificantly better Battlecruiser? Oh well, get over it. And the Devs, your "Word of God" have, by holy decree, declared the Mogh to be insignificantly better with a built in basic cloak.
Devs don't always make the wisest decisions, however. Two wrongs don't make a right. KDF should seen expansion in its shipyard, more science-oriented vessels on top of it all. However anyone arguing that the Mogh is not unbalanced to its counterpart is just being a hypocrite.
You misconstrue my refusal to address your strawman; and thus not play into your game. The only commonality between the Mogh and the Vesta is what you force. As stated prior, it's of little consequence to me as I don't have a need to be right here, I'm just correcting your attempt to tarnish my character before bed.
(Not worth an extra post, but happy 100th I guess. The speed of your reply is disturbing.)
Devs don't always make the wisest decisions, however. Two wrongs don't make a right. KDF should seen expansion in its shipyard, more science-oriented vessels on top of it all. However anyone arguing that the Mogh is not unbalanced to its counterpart is just being a hypocrite.
You misconstrue my refusal to address your strawman; and thus not play into your game. The only commonality between the Mogh and the Vesta is what you force. As stated prior, it's of little consequence to me as I don't have a need to be right here, I'm just correcting your attempt to tarnish my character before bed.
By refusing to address what you call a straw man because you can't grasp simple logic, and instead presenting personal insults and accusations, you are, in fact presenting a straw man. So you see the irony here in you calling other people hypocrites, right?
Though I could swear you just try to drown your opponents in saga-length bouts of over-spun ramblings. .
Funny when you call everyone who disagrees with you kids, or implying those that play kdf have problems with reading comprehension and also insulting others intelligence to try and make your points valid when others have brought up good points.
Devs don't always make the wisest decisions, however.
Your right, Feds should have never gotten a Battlecruiser, further spoiling them. Then we wouldn't even have this issue. Obviously the Feds have come to expect to have the superior of everything, now they want all their ships to have cloaks. Just LOL.
Feddie qq/complaints would be somewhat ok if Varanus, Raptors/escorts were on par with fed ships, we haven't any proper sci ship besides varan (inferior to dssv) and korath (wells pasta), we have got inferior escorts. Don't even tell me about bops, they will at least have flanking bonus soon (tm)...
Also our only 5 tac console ship is a flying brick.
Not to mention long ship drought in c store for us.
We had advantage only in battlecruisers until Avenger came out, i'm glad that Mogh will be on par with Avenger, too bad though it's copy pasta but i'll buy it.
IMHO it's not +1 versus Legoprise, it does have innate cloak as other kdf ships which is not as good as rommie battlecloak, higher crew ok, but crew doesn't matter.
Better p2w console? Lol, we'll see, it doesn't appear that useful.
Come On peeps we all would moan if they didn't make any ships at all. i think we just look at it as if oh no feds get another ship oh no Klingons get another ship (but i agree that its time they do cause they have been neglected) for so long.
I hate Klingons I hate romulans even more.
so settle the argument my way, if i see the new ship in kerrat or pvp i will certainly be blowing it up (yes im sure you be doing the same before you come out with some smart remark)
KDF has always had free standard cloak it seems on the battle cruisers and only paid for it in handicaps on Raptors. Bops have battle cloaks and have always paid for them.
I am curiuos though, when did this ninja buff to the KDF happen and where if any is the proof. Ive been here since the begining and remember no buff to make the KDF more appealing.
That was the day when the Negh'vars hull was brought on par with fed ships. And ever since then Klingons are getting their cruiser cloak for free.
Why has this free advantage have to be carried over into the Avenger/Mogh copy/paste era, while other ships like the vet one and the temporal ships were treated differently?
That was the day when the Negh'vars hull was brought on par with fed ships. And ever since then Klingons are getting their cruiser cloak for free.
Why has this free advantage have to be carried over into the Avenger/Mogh copy/paste era, while other ships like the vet one and the temporal ships were treated differently?
One Ship was buffed in hull and that signals the end of balance for the feds? One battle cruiser out if all the KDF battle cruisers?
You players are too sensitive to think such a single buff has unbalanced the game.
What about all the KDF battle cruisers who did not get a hull buff? How do we even know the buff to the Neghvar was not due to an oversight in its creation?
How does this one incident signal that all KDF battle cruisers now buffed to make them more appealing?
Hell bells, I could make the same strawman claim about the Fleet Defiants fifth Tac slot and it would not mean all Escorts got a buff to make them more appealing to draw in fed escort players.
For all that is known they could have just been correcting a mistake in its design.
sheesh! and the feds call the KDF over reactionary.....
Meh I somehow was especting this. And only now ppl are actually seen it how overpowered kdf ships are compared to the fed ships, only at a direct comparison. And now with the fleet consoles there is even more obvious and bigger unbalance. Put in that extra console slot a Fleet RCS [All Ress], or a Fleet Neutronium with +turn or +hullHP and you got a way better ship then the Avenger.
Kinda sad that the devs see a build-in cloak as nothing for kdf and a console slot for fed ships. Indeed a Device instaid of a Console would solve alot, since there were called Cloaking DEVICEs anyway. Great idea, but i doubt it will be ever implemented. But it was wrong to go from the start with the build-in cloaks for kdf anyway. Becouse IP?? Yeah right... Then the Defiant shouldve had a Romulan Battle Cloak... It was from the romulans afterall...
And about kdf complaining about fed complaining (and on a side note, i remember when avenger got the cruiser commands I didnt saw any fed posts about not giving them to the kdf, yet i've seen plenty of rants from kdf to not giving the flanking bonus mechanic to the feds, wich I am ok with it, not saying I want it, just saying about whinings...), most ppl dont want kdf ships nerfed, but actually balanced ships (not talking about romulans, just pure fed vs kdf ships). Quantity doesnt overcome quality. What good if the fed faction has, lets say, 15 ships, while kdf only 5. Ppl will pick up/buy the first 5 from fed side anyway. More is not equal to better. Guramba is the best escort/destryer, even counting as a 10 console slots ship becouse of the build in skill. The Javolin makes the Phaser lance a joke, wich was nerfed cuz kdf compains about poping bops around lol. The Javolin is even way better then the other damaging consoles, like the andorian cannon overload or the vesta phaser beam, since you can spam it once every min and it doesnt takes up a precios console slot. And on sci ships? Your kiding, a fleet varanus drain build with an aceton makes any vesta a joke. Heck even a Kar'fi is better. And some1 brought up pets. Fighters are a joke now, no matter how good they are. Not even talking PvP, but even in PvE the voth preatty much slaughter them. Might aswell play without them anyway. Only frigates survive, wich kdf has both free and c-store, while fed side doesnt get them even from c-store.
Also the cannon ships, the ones most players want to fly, are ridiculous. The kdf has a brel bop or the vorcha, even if its an actually fleet torkat with a vorcha skin, powerfull ships with good skills/abilities. While feds what have??? Galaxy or Galaxy-X (wich is even called Failaxy-X lol), wich are the most useless ships in the game. Or a defiant with an handicapated cloak, even tho in the show it was never stated it was subpar with the kdf one. Or a Voyager with a rather useless ablative generator.
Now remains to be seen how much is it worth their invenstment for this ship, meaning if it will sell. As i know not many ppl will trade their fleet torkat for this, wich still remains the best battlecruiser, since 5 forward weapons means little now with beam builds been better.
Dude, you just don't get it. They're the same ship, but the factions receiving them aren't receiving them in the same context. Your so called word of god devs have even articulated this, and have never once said that the ships were so deliberately developed as counterparts as your constituency seems to demand be considered a given.
If we take him at his word they were. I agree that we need to have some equivalents elsewhere, in the escort and science line, but trying to revenge shaft Fed side, with a cloak they have to spend a console slot to use, isn't the way to get faction parity, it will only start wars like this.
Klingons celebrate Festivus. The Airing of Grievances is going on right now, as you can see in any thread where the Mogh is being discussed. Feats of Strength are coming up next!
One Ship was buffed in hull and that signals the end of balance for the feds? One battle cruiser out if all the KDF battle cruisers?
You players are too sensitive to think such a single buff has unbalanced the game.
What about all the KDF battle cruisers who did not get a hull buff? How do we even know the buff to the Neghvar was not due to an oversight in its creation?
How does this one incident signal that all KDF battle cruisers now buffed to make them more appealing?
T5 Vor'cha was added with the same patch (and the same klingon favoralbe cloak/stats) and well... that was the klingon endgame BC lineup back at that time. So after all, indeed the whole Klingon cruiser lineup was buffed that day. Everything else up to the Mogh is just following the pattern set that day.
Klingons celebrate Festivus. The Airing of Grievances is going on right now, as you can see in any thread where the Mogh is being discussed. Feats of Strength are coming up next!
Tis only on Khristmas
we Klingons feel mirth --
the day of the warrior,
Kahless's birth.
The most fearless of fighters
we'll never forget.
For his equal among us
has never been met.
This story is known
by us all, near and far,
of the leader who swore
to return on a star.
But the one day that Klingons
all hold the most dear has been stolen by humans,
just like our Shakespeare!
I love that book and have added its reading as of this year to my family's holiday traditions.
T5 Vor'cha was added with the same patch (and the same klingon favoralbe cloak/stats) and well... that was the klingon endgame BC lineup back at that time. So after all, indeed the whole Klingon cruiser lineup was buffed that day. Everything else up to the Mogh is just following the pattern set that day.
That pattern being, according to a Dev, that KDF battle cruisers do not suffer for having innate standard cloaks.
So it seems the Neghvar was being brought up to match that standard, not buffed unnecassarily.
While our Raptors do suffer for standard cloak and Raiders for Battle cloak.
Klingons celebrate Festivus. The Airing of Grievances is going on right now, as you can see in any thread where the Mogh is being discussed. Feats of Strength are coming up next!
Do what the Devs did in 2011 for the Defiant and AGT galaxy, add an extra console slot to the Avenger.
of course that will give the Fleet version 11 console slots so it may not be possible.
In which case make the Cloaking Device and actual device only usable on the Defiants, AGT and Avenger.
All this grief over a single console slot is silly. Who knew one console slot was bringing the UFP to its knees?
Do what the Devs did in 2011 for the Defiant and AGT galaxy, add an extra console slot to the Avenger.
of course that will give the Fleet version 11 console slots so it may not be possible.
In which case make the Cloaking Device and actual device only usable on the Defiants, AGT and Avenger.
All this grief over a single console slot is silly. Who knew one console slot was bringing the UFP to its knees?
You may be onto something ... Can we use this information to end the war with the Federation? ... Truly bringing them to their knees and conquering them once and for all?
Not unless you're going to leave my Fleet Defiant's console slots as they are and give me another device slot. My Red Matter Capacitor and Subspace Field Modulator are not negotiable.
Would you be ok to have the Mogh with 8 and the Fleet Mogh with only 9 console slots to compensate?
Suddenly 1 console slot doesn't sound so silly.
No, becuase their is no need to lower the number of consoles to appease the feds when they where given extra space to use their cloaking device on two other ships, at thier request if memory serves.
Do the same to the Avenger or make the cloak a device and everybody is happy.
Thats the point the feds seem to always ignore. The Defiant and AGT both had one less console slot when introduced but innate cloaking. Yet that was not good enough becuase the use of cloak was oitwieghed by the need for more slot space. Such extra slots where added, cstore ships abilities where made into universal consoles, all so the player could remove them and enjoy the added slot space or use them and function as normal.
Where was Worf banned? Because as far as the story goes, the most dishonor he's gotten was from his son's actions, and even that hardly seems enough
The Path to 2409 lore dailies and his speech he used to give about why he was sitting outside the High Council building said he was banned from entering the High Council chambers.
We wish. Now its a added Device slot or its not feasible. :rolleyes:
Personally, I think battle cloak being enabled should be reworked as a new cruiser command exclusive to Battlecruisers.
And if Klingons need something unique, you find something NEW and unique to give them that doesn't effect ship balance. Maybe further ground trait buffs.
Comments
Devs don't always make the wisest decisions, however. Two wrongs don't make a right. KDF should seen expansion in its shipyard, more science-oriented vessels on top of it all. However anyone arguing that the Mogh is not unbalanced to its counterpart is just being a hypocrite.
You misconstrue my refusal to address your strawman; and thus not play into your game. The only commonality between the Mogh and the Vesta is what you force. As stated prior, it's of little consequence to me as I don't have a need to be right here, I'm just correcting your attempt to tarnish my character before bed.
(Not worth an extra post, but happy 100th I guess. The speed of your reply is disturbing.)
By refusing to address what you call a straw man because you can't grasp simple logic, and instead presenting personal insults and accusations, you are, in fact presenting a straw man. So you see the irony here in you calling other people hypocrites, right?
Good night troll. Happy 100th post to me.
Funny when you call everyone who disagrees with you kids, or implying those that play kdf have problems with reading comprehension and also insulting others intelligence to try and make your points valid when others have brought up good points.
Your right, Feds should have never gotten a Battlecruiser, further spoiling them. Then we wouldn't even have this issue. Obviously the Feds have come to expect to have the superior of everything, now they want all their ships to have cloaks. Just LOL.
i will ofc buy any thing kdf to support the ignored faction
Also our only 5 tac console ship is a flying brick.
Not to mention long ship drought in c store for us.
We had advantage only in battlecruisers until Avenger came out, i'm glad that Mogh will be on par with Avenger, too bad though it's copy pasta but i'll buy it.
IMHO it's not +1 versus Legoprise, it does have innate cloak as other kdf ships which is not as good as rommie battlecloak, higher crew ok, but crew doesn't matter.
Better p2w console? Lol, we'll see, it doesn't appear that useful.
So stop crying for nerf ("balance") :P
I hate Klingons I hate romulans even more.
so settle the argument my way, if i see the new ship in kerrat or pvp i will certainly be blowing it up (yes im sure you be doing the same before you come out with some smart remark)
But its all part of the fun
R.I.P
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3109425
That was the day when the Negh'vars hull was brought on par with fed ships. And ever since then Klingons are getting their cruiser cloak for free.
Why has this free advantage have to be carried over into the Avenger/Mogh copy/paste era, while other ships like the vet one and the temporal ships were treated differently?
with a ratio of something like 6 new fed ships for 1 kdf ship to be realsed im just happy we even got ship. i dont care what stats it has
What Klingon holiday is that??? A Very Klingon Kristmas?
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703395904576025760797375264
Addicted: January 2012
batlh QIH 'ej!
One Ship was buffed in hull and that signals the end of balance for the feds? One battle cruiser out if all the KDF battle cruisers?
You players are too sensitive to think such a single buff has unbalanced the game.
What about all the KDF battle cruisers who did not get a hull buff? How do we even know the buff to the Neghvar was not due to an oversight in its creation?
How does this one incident signal that all KDF battle cruisers now buffed to make them more appealing?
Hell bells, I could make the same strawman claim about the Fleet Defiants fifth Tac slot and it would not mean all Escorts got a buff to make them more appealing to draw in fed escort players.
For all that is known they could have just been correcting a mistake in its design.
sheesh! and the feds call the KDF over reactionary.....
R.I.P
Kinda sad that the devs see a build-in cloak as nothing for kdf and a console slot for fed ships. Indeed a Device instaid of a Console would solve alot, since there were called Cloaking DEVICEs anyway. Great idea, but i doubt it will be ever implemented. But it was wrong to go from the start with the build-in cloaks for kdf anyway. Becouse IP?? Yeah right... Then the Defiant shouldve had a Romulan Battle Cloak... It was from the romulans afterall...
And about kdf complaining about fed complaining (and on a side note, i remember when avenger got the cruiser commands I didnt saw any fed posts about not giving them to the kdf, yet i've seen plenty of rants from kdf to not giving the flanking bonus mechanic to the feds, wich I am ok with it, not saying I want it, just saying about whinings...), most ppl dont want kdf ships nerfed, but actually balanced ships (not talking about romulans, just pure fed vs kdf ships). Quantity doesnt overcome quality. What good if the fed faction has, lets say, 15 ships, while kdf only 5. Ppl will pick up/buy the first 5 from fed side anyway. More is not equal to better. Guramba is the best escort/destryer, even counting as a 10 console slots ship becouse of the build in skill. The Javolin makes the Phaser lance a joke, wich was nerfed cuz kdf compains about poping bops around lol. The Javolin is even way better then the other damaging consoles, like the andorian cannon overload or the vesta phaser beam, since you can spam it once every min and it doesnt takes up a precios console slot. And on sci ships? Your kiding, a fleet varanus drain build with an aceton makes any vesta a joke. Heck even a Kar'fi is better. And some1 brought up pets. Fighters are a joke now, no matter how good they are. Not even talking PvP, but even in PvE the voth preatty much slaughter them. Might aswell play without them anyway. Only frigates survive, wich kdf has both free and c-store, while fed side doesnt get them even from c-store.
Also the cannon ships, the ones most players want to fly, are ridiculous. The kdf has a brel bop or the vorcha, even if its an actually fleet torkat with a vorcha skin, powerfull ships with good skills/abilities. While feds what have??? Galaxy or Galaxy-X (wich is even called Failaxy-X lol), wich are the most useless ships in the game. Or a defiant with an handicapated cloak, even tho in the show it was never stated it was subpar with the kdf one. Or a Voyager with a rather useless ablative generator.
Now remains to be seen how much is it worth their invenstment for this ship, meaning if it will sell. As i know not many ppl will trade their fleet torkat for this, wich still remains the best battlecruiser, since 5 forward weapons means little now with beam builds been better.
Exactly, though I got the idea from a recent Klingn themed Kristmas book I bought.
R.I.P
I agreed with this in all my post. What's the issue?
They did though, again as quoted by ussultimatum: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=80
If we take him at his word they were. I agree that we need to have some equivalents elsewhere, in the escort and science line, but trying to revenge shaft Fed side, with a cloak they have to spend a console slot to use, isn't the way to get faction parity, it will only start wars like this.
Klingons celebrate Festivus. The Airing of Grievances is going on right now, as you can see in any thread where the Mogh is being discussed. Feats of Strength are coming up next!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus
Tis only on Khristmas
we Klingons feel mirth --
the day of the warrior,
Kahless's birth.
The most fearless of fighters
we'll never forget.
For his equal among us
has never been met.
This story is known
by us all, near and far,
of the leader who swore
to return on a star.
But the one day that Klingons
all hold the most dear
has been stolen by humans,
just like our Shakespeare!
I love that book and have added its reading as of this year to my family's holiday traditions.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
That pattern being, according to a Dev, that KDF battle cruisers do not suffer for having innate standard cloaks.
So it seems the Neghvar was being brought up to match that standard, not buffed unnecassarily.
While our Raptors do suffer for standard cloak and Raiders for Battle cloak.
R.I.P
jatlh quvHa'ghach! Speaking of Dishonor or
Ha', 'IQtaHghach lach lut! Stories of Grief!
Doesn't look like Bing translator has a Klingon word for "feat", but they do for "Accomplishments of Strength": HoS ta'
Or "Tests of Strength"? HoS waH!
Of course, HoS waH will be with this mighty battlecrusier in-game
Addicted: January 2012
batlh QIH 'ej!
Do what the Devs did in 2011 for the Defiant and AGT galaxy, add an extra console slot to the Avenger.
of course that will give the Fleet version 11 console slots so it may not be possible.
In which case make the Cloaking Device and actual device only usable on the Defiants, AGT and Avenger.
All this grief over a single console slot is silly. Who knew one console slot was bringing the UFP to its knees?
R.I.P
You may be onto something ... Can we use this information to end the war with the Federation? ... Truly bringing them to their knees and conquering them once and for all?
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Would you be ok to have the Mogh with 8 and the Fleet Mogh with only 9 console slots to compensate?
Suddenly 1 console slot doesn't sound so silly.
No ... We've all already hit on the real answer ... Federation cloak needs to be made a device and NOT a console.
Problem solved.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
No, becuase their is no need to lower the number of consoles to appease the feds when they where given extra space to use their cloaking device on two other ships, at thier request if memory serves.
Do the same to the Avenger or make the cloak a device and everybody is happy.
Thats the point the feds seem to always ignore. The Defiant and AGT both had one less console slot when introduced but innate cloaking. Yet that was not good enough becuase the use of cloak was oitwieghed by the need for more slot space. Such extra slots where added, cstore ships abilities where made into universal consoles, all so the player could remove them and enjoy the added slot space or use them and function as normal.
R.I.P
We wish. Now its a added Device slot or its not feasible. :rolleyes:
R.I.P
The Path to 2409 lore dailies and his speech he used to give about why he was sitting outside the High Council building said he was banned from entering the High Council chambers.
Personally, I think battle cloak being enabled should be reworked as a new cruiser command exclusive to Battlecruisers.
And if Klingons need something unique, you find something NEW and unique to give them that doesn't effect ship balance. Maybe further ground trait buffs.