so you bought the Avenger because it could cloak? It does cloak. So how have you been gypped?
Gorngonzolla already explained how standard cloaking works. Its innate for KDF battlene cruisers whom suffer no handicap for it. Only Battle Cloaks infer a handicap, hence why the BoP and the Roms have handicaps.
The Defiant doesnt have a standard cloak handicap nor does the AGT GalX, they have both been given extra slots to have the cloak if desired. The Fleet version has even more slots.
The Avenger was not built with a cloak console. It only has the option to use a cloak if desired.
There is no imbalance. There is only your whinning for an perception of being shorted for something you already can enjoy.
Hauk is right, you only show the worst of the fed player.
Just be glad the avenger can cloak at all Its the first ship on the federation side that can cloak that didn't have a ship do it in canon ( where the federation in STO suddenly acquired all those hundreds of romulan cloaking devices for its defiant class ships is another story entirely )
At the end of the day ,I fail to see how it makes such a massive difference , so the Mogh has an innate cloak and the Avenger doesn't .. wow.
Like what has been said before , its a Federation cruiser that can use Dual heavy cannons , isn't that enough ?
Why can't the Feds have cloaks on all ships?
what is the current status of the treaty of algeron?
Is D'Tan just saying "We need your help, Mr. Fedration, if the Romulan Republic is going to survive ...... but you can't have cloaking devices":rolleyes:
Is the KDF going to declare double war on the federation if they start introducing cloaks to the fleet?:rolleyes:
Not to mention out of character. The whole cloaking thing should stay as it is - Feds with next-to-no cloaking ships, Klinks with all (almost) cloaking ships, Roms with Battlecloaking ships.
Anything else and you might as well merge everyone into a single faction because there will be no point trying to differentiate anymore.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Mogh came out later so technically it's not you getting less but buyers of the new ship getting more. As if it was something new...
When the time-gap is more substantial, yes. This was back-to-back ship releases, not even another C-store ship inbetween to blunt it. People are still breaking in their Avengers, and something better has been offered to the other guys, at the same price.
It's not a case of wanting identical ships, it's a case of wanting balance between the ships. The perceived standard has been, innate cloaking means you trade away some stats. But that standard has been turn on its ear and thrown out the window, atleast for KDF. This means the Avenger, which costs the same, is an inferior vessel. Which means in essence, people who purchased the Avenger have been gypped.
People say don't use the cloak console, but you are again then getting less for your money and investment. The Mogh has the option there, even if its unneeded, without giving up the console, or even having to buy another ship to get said console. Now factor in logistical cost. Fleet consoles are the best things out there now. You have to sacrifice passive bonuses, potential stats; the very price that KDF have cried that they pay for their cloaking, which no longer is the standard.
It's imbalance, a dire case of it at that, one that until it is rectified, I will be making no further C-Store vessel purchases. It worked for KDF Players.
But you're still not getting it. The mogh is to the battlecruiser class what the vesta is to the science vessel class. It is the extravagant, unbalanced crown jewel that the enemy cannot have. The mogh is supposed to be on par with the avenger like the science vessel is to the varanus, ie, it's not. They're faction perk ships.
Klingons do better dps. Their ships cloak. Their elite fleet weapons are built around dps. Klingons have been designed from day one to do dps better than anyone else. That is their house. People may come on their lawn, but at the end of the day, they still own the house. They pay for this with an absolute derth of tank/healer ability compared to the other faction (s). They can do it, but they can't do it as well. They can go on people's science and engineering lawn, but they can't own the whole neighborhood, they chose their little DPS house, so leave it to them, it isn't unpaid for.
What does the vesta sacrifice? Is it not science vessel opulence for science vessel opulence's sake? Why should the mogh have to sacrifice anything? Artisanal craft in your faction's preferred profession has been established already by giving the feds a massive choice of cruisers and science vessels, especially the vesta. Klingons don't have a vesta, will never get one, and now that they've gotten the mogh, the precedent has been set that they shouldn't get one if cryptic expects the mogh's already limited justification for existence to persist.
As I've already mentioned, if you don't want to run the console, run Mask Energy Signature. The Stealth values are nearly identical, there's a thread with a dev comparing the two and thoroughly detailing the "stealth" stat somewhere on these forums, I don't feel like searching for a link, typing all this was already enough. I do recommend it to anyone who really thinks the base cloak, and feds having to use a console for it, is any kind of ground for a handicap argument. You also have the 3 piece set bonus from adapted maco, which is the same ability with an AOE. You have cloaking options that allow you a 10 slot console setup, if those are two absolute requirements of any build you have.
I think that's like the dinos. Dinos with lasers are cool, we have dinos with lasers. Worf is cool, he make a ship. And he is part of the last FE.
Next time, Worf will have a baby with a dino. Because a dino with the Klingon style would be awesome. Especially if he have Worf's voice.
But you're still not getting it. The mogh is to the battlecruiser class what the vesta is to the science vessel class. It is the extravagant, unbalanced crown jewel that the enemy cannot have. The mogh is supposed to be on par with the avenger like the science vessel is to the varanus, ie, it's not. They're faction perk ships.
Klingons do better dps. Their ships cloak. Their elite fleet weapons are built around dps. Klingons have been designed from day one to do dps better than anyone else. That is their house. People may come on their lawn, but at the end of the day, they still own the house. They pay for this with an absolute derth of tank/healer ability compared to the other faction (s). They can do it, but they can't do it as well. They can go on people's science and engineering lawn, but they can't own the whole neighborhood, they chose their little DPS house, so leave it to them, it isn't unpaid for.
What does the vesta sacrifice? Is it not science vessel opulence for science vessel opulence's sake? Why should the mogh have to sacrifice anything? Artisanal craft in your faction's preferred profession has been established already by giving the feds a massive choice of cruisers and science vessels, especially the vesta. Klingons don't have a vesta, will never get one, and now that they've gotten the mogh, the precedent has been set that they shouldn't get one if cryptic expects the mogh's already limited justification for existence to persist.
As I've already mentioned, if you don't want to run the console, run Mask Energy Signature. The Stealth values are nearly identical, there's a thread with a dev comparing the two and thoroughly detailing the "stealth" stat somewhere on these forums, I don't feel like searching for a link, typing all this was already enough. I do recommend it to anyone who really thinks the base cloak, and feds having to use a console for it, is any kind of ground for a handicap argument. You also have the 3 piece set bonus from adapted maco, which is the same ability with an AOE. You have cloaking options that allow you a 10 slot console setup, if those are two absolute requirements of any build you have.
It seems you're the one who doesn't get it, the Mogh is not the counterpart to the Vesta, it is the counterpart to the Avenger; the the point they share 90% of their stat one to one. The whole argument there is moot, I'm sorry. A super-BoP would fit that comparison better.
As for stealth, MES is nice but it still is not a true cloak. It is not persistent, you do not get the decloak alpha-strike buff; which Starfleet lack in terms of non-console damage boosts as it is. The Romulan Embassy BOffs only work with cloak, so yes, to optimize Alpha with them you need to cloak, not to use MES.
Not to mention out of character. The whole cloaking thing should stay as it is - Feds with next-to-no cloaking ships, Klinks with all (almost) cloaking ships, Roms with Battlecloaking ships.
Anything else and you might as well merge everyone into a single faction because there will be no point trying to differentiate anymore.
but isn't merging into a single faction already happening? aside from the levelling up missions what was the last faction specific mission we got at endgame? Hell Feds, Roms and KDF are the dyson sphere alliance in season 8.
even if you were to take the arms race angle into account it would make sense for the feds to plug a gap in that strategic disadvantage by introducing cloaks into the fleet
From what I can tell the avenger needs a slight hull and or shield buff or the mogh needs a slight hull and or shield Nerf.
Why? There is no imbalance. The Avenger is a fed designed Battle Cruiser that has cloak capabilities that fall under the rules for fed cloaking ships.
The Mogh is a KDF battle cruiser that falls in line with all the rules of KDF battle cruisers.
Where is the imbalance? One console slot to do what feds do not normally do, cloak? Thats how cloaking works for the feds. No rules have been broken. Not even the "the federation will not research cloakng" rule.
Where is the imbalance on the Mogh? Innate cloaking? All KDF battle cruisers have standard cloak. If it had a battle cloak then it would be unfair to not have a handicap.
There is no imbalance, there is only fed whine about imbalance because they feel slighted when they have not been slighted at all.
It seems you're the one who doesn't get it, the Mogh is not the counterpart to the Vesta, it is the counterpart to the Avenger; the the point they share 90% of their stat one to one. The whole argument there is moot, I'm sorry. A super-BoP would fit that comparison better.
As for stealth, MES is nice but it still is not a true cloak. It is not persistent, you do not get the decloak alpha-strike buff; which Starfleet lack in terms of non-console damage boosts as it is. The Romulan Embassy BOffs only work with cloak, so yes, to optimize Alpha with them you need to cloak, not to use MES.
Vesta = Super science ship.
The kdf sucks at science, they get no vesta. However, they get a Varanus, which is an adequate science vessel.
Mogh = Super battle cruiser
The fed sucks at battle cruisers. They get no mogh. However, they get an avenger, which, when sacrificing a console to fit a cloaking device like many fleet-less klingon battlecruisers do, is an adequate battlecruiser.
The difference in stealth values between basic cloak and MES is so small that it's literally mitigated by any investment in the stealth skill or increase in auxilliary power whatsoever. It shouldn't get the alpha strike decloak pwn stack. Fed cloaking device shouldn't even get that. That treads on the KDF's specialization on damage. So you're welcome for being allowed that perk. Ditto with romboffs.
I just dismiss certain posters outright as they have proven time and again to be nothing more than trolls, liars, and strawman debaters. bitemepwe is a shining example.
^^ LOL :P
How did that one saying go......ah yes - pot, meet kettle! :rolleyes:
what is the current status of the treaty of algeron?
Is D'Tan just saying "We need your help, Mr. Fedration, if the Romulan Republic is going to survive ...... but you can't have cloaking devices"
Is the KDF going to declare double war on the federation if they start introducing cloaks to the fleet?
Oh, oh......I know this one!!! *raises hand*
It's because this game is called Star Trek, and the IP it represents says that the Federation does not use cloaking technology on their ships!
You know, the same reason why they don't make a Star Wars game and then put Super Mario and Mickey Mouse in it. :rolleyes:
but isn't merging into a single faction already happening? aside from the levelling up missions what was the last faction specific mission we got at endgame? Hell Feds, Roms and KDF are the dyson sphere alliance in season 8.
even if you were to take the arms race angle into account it would make sense for the feds to plug a gap in that strategic disadvantage by introducing cloaks into the fleet
Doesnt mean a social merger is happening. America is allied with the Japanese and Israel yet they are still individualy American.
Being an ally does not make you a clone of your allies.
All local whinners are embarrassed. Calculate how long have not received any KDF ship? It's more than a year. And now that he got one , you swear that strong? FED has BOffs with efficient and leadership, RR has even subterfuge and operative , KDF has nothing . Cloak addition to Mogh ? Balanced. Just name it , I don't like it because I big fan of Duras
Which was, ultimately, how the Avenger was born - a ship to trump the KDF's Battlecruisers.
In fairness, this brings the STO world more in line with reality, where arms races escalate over time, especially during wartime.
Yeah that was mostly the combat perspective that was an aspect of how the federation, klingon empire, and their alliance survived many threats. If it wasn't for their original war in the tos era the threats faced in TNG would have destroyed the federation like the borg. If the borg were not so overwhelming sending in one ship then it wouldn't have survived the time when the Klingons broke the treaty and tried to take out DS9. As well it goes so on and so on with dominion and continued borg threats. So in this case I would guess that this will be to ensue the survival of both factions in the future of sto when combating the borg, iconians, tholians and other factions spoken of but not in the game yet. So it all does make sense and we should see some positive sides from the devs once they build the game out to where this fed/kdf war will produce things we will need when the war ends to fight the real enemies out there and *not each other* to some degree lol
While I totally believe that the feds got tons of vessels that are superior to most what the KDF has of late and thus having a superior KDF ship should not be as big a deal as people make it, or a deal at all, considering getting attached to a single faction while everyone is playing the same game is kinda silly, I can see the problem when two nearly identical ships are released and one has clearly better stats without a Trade in (Aside from having the disadvantage of playing KDF to begin with)
So, honestly, the outrage was kinda foreseeable, just as it is foreseeable that people will freak out about whiny Fed players ruining a KDF ship should the devs nerf the stats now.
This isn't about Fluff, realism or much a build in cloaking device poses an advantage in PvP or PVE it's basic logic.
If you give two brothers Icecream and one of them gets an extra cherry on top the other brother is likely pissed, even if he got tons of cherries the passing year and the other got nothing.
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My final response to this, will be with my wallet, and I encourage anyone else whom feels the same to do so as well. Until Cryptic makes good on this faction-flavored one-upsmanship money grab, they'll get no further money from me.
Why? There is no imbalance. The Avenger is a fed designed Battle Cruiser that has cloak capabilities that fall under the rules for fed cloaking ships.
The Mogh is a KDF battle cruiser that falls in line with all the rules of KDF battle cruisers.
Where is the imbalance? One console slot to do what feds do not normally do, cloak? Thats how cloaking works for the feds. No rules have been broken. Not even the "the federation will not research cloakng" rule.
Where is the imbalance on the Mogh? Innate cloaking? All KDF battle cruisers have standard cloak. If it had a battle cloak then it would be unfair to not have a handicap.
There is no imbalance, there is only fed whine about imbalance because they feel slighted when they have not been slighted at all.
You have one ship on one faction that is mechanically superior to another on another faction.
It is the exact same ship as the other, but with two stats that are better: crew (who cares) and the built-in cloak.
There is no trade-off, there is no price to pay, there is no limiting factor. That is the very definition of game imbalance.
You have one ship on one faction that is mechanically superior to another on another faction.
It is the exact same ship as the other, but with two stats that are better: crew (who cares) and the built-in cloak.
There is no trade-off, there is no price to pay, there is no limiting factor. That is the very definition of game imbalance.
Not according to how the game has been since day one. KDF battle cruisers do not suffer for standard cloak. Its a perk of playing KDF since our vessels have had cloaking for a long time. We do suffer for battle cloaking with lower stats.
The Feds are handicapped for having three cloaking ships by having to use a device and console slot to achieve it, while having been given extra slots to place said device. Its a gameplay feature given the federation against the viewpoint that feds don't cloak as a faction to allow fans to play some of their favorite vessels. The Defiant from DSP and the AGT galaxy. Its the rules by which the feds have access to cloaks and fits the IP reasons on why its a limited function.
There is an imbalance in price, since the Avenger does not *supply* the cloak console. For those who want to achieve closer parity between these ships, a higher spend in Zen is required. HOWEVER, this is somewhat countered by the KDF need to spend Zen to get the Plasmonic Leech, while the Feds can just spend EC for it. (2k Z for TER, 1k Z for Vandal, so it's a 1k Z difference in value for parity of function).
(Note: Personal opinion: I don't care - I own the cloak anyway from the Defiant, and Mogh > Avenger to me means diddly since Vesta > Everything else Sci).
All local whinners are embarrassed. Calculate how long have not received any KDF ship? It's more than a year. And now that he got one , you swear that strong? FED has BOffs with efficient and leadership, RR has even subterfuge and operative , KDF has nothing . Cloak addition to Mogh ? Balanced. Just name it , I don't like it because I big fan of Duras
Actually the KDF has nausicaans which provide a dmg boost that works like apo in its not a base dmg boost like to the weapons at 50 power and both sides had efficient and with leadership having been nerfed basically feds fall behind in boffs.
Not according to how the game has been since day one. KDF battle cruisers do not suffer for standard cloak. Its a perk of playing KDF since our vessels have had cloaking for a long time. We do suffer for battle cloaking with lower stats.
The Feds are handicapped for having three cloaking ships by having to use a device and console slot to achieve it, while having been given extra slots to place said device. Its a gameplay feature given the federation against the viewpoint that feds don't cloak as a faction to allow fans to play some of their favorite vessels. The Defiant from DSP and the AGT galaxy. Its the rules by which the feds have access to cloaks and fits the IP reasons on why its a limited function.
there is no inmbalance.
I do think battlecloaking's ok with lower stats involved, it's a good balancing factor that encourages a different style of play that's all good.
But you have to understand something. All ships of equal tier are to be cut from the same cloth. All lockbox/fleet ships must have the same amount of total value, even if they aren't as highly specialized as some others. At the end of the baking process, there must be the same amount of dough in every cake. Some can go 4/4 weapons, some can go 5/3, some can go 4/3 and turn better, some can go 3/3 and get a bunch of free abilities. Lined up, they look different and play different, but they're all even in value, though not for some roles. That's how you design your endgame gear. That's one of the most basic of design principles. Until you release a new tier of content, all things at the top are even.
I love my fed toon. I love my kdf toon. I can't find the motivation to level my romulan, but that's neither here nor there. But the professional in me finds this blatant discrepancy in two side-by-side ships offensive in the lack of care that was put into incorporating it into the existing ship lists.
Not according to how the game has been since day one. KDF battle cruisers do not suffer for standard cloak. Its a perk of playing KDF since our vessels have had cloaking for a long time. ...
Not since day one. Initially KDF ships had lower stats to offset cloak. But with the KDF stillborn Cryptic decided to make them more powerful and thus more desirable. That's why KDF gets free cloak onto their ships, and why consoles like leech originate to the red side. However that was long ago. Now in the age of nearly identical ships and content, it's time to bring balance back into the game.
Thank you for showing me the light that is the 3 roles of the trinity in 3 different faction specific paint schemes. Because that sounds like a much better, more intricate, complex, and nuanced game to play. I want to play that game. Even though it already exists and is called chess.
Bah, don't be ridiculous, everyone knows Chess is imba and white is OP.
as a fed player i see the Mogh as a nice toy for the KDF while my fellow fed fans may cry over the built in cloak the cloak has been a klink thing since day 1. Honestly i do not see the reason why all the fuss over a cloak once he is in battle he cannot cloak anymore till he exits battle and that can be troublesome. both Avenger and Mogh have been needed to fill Niches in STO and i forsee them both being proud ships to fly by both factions. so rejoice klinks for getting a truely superb ship i look forward to fighting along side it
I think Phil pretty much answered your question but you continue to refuse to accept the answer. The advantage to the FEDs is getting their own KDF Battle Cruiser in the first place. Get it?
That's not a mechanical advantage, "get it"?
Here, how does this sound?
The KDF do not deserve, and should never get a proper sci ship.
And if they do, it should be clearly inferior to any Fed versions because "getting their own Fed-style Sci ship" is its own advantage.
I don't actually want that to happen, because I believe ships should be balanced on their own merits or versus their carbon copies. Also I'd like my KDF sci to not end up with an inferior version of a ship, but that's what your thought process would dictate.
You could have given the avenger something else to separate it mechanically from the Mogh, something that gives it a uniquely Fed spin/advantage to it.
I said "mechanical" advantage. What you are describing is an availability advantage.
That's not a mechanical advantage, "get it"?
Here, how does this sound?
The KDF do not deserve, and should never get a proper sci ship.
And if they do, it should be clearly inferior to any Fed versions because "getting their own Fed-style Sci ship" is its own advantage.
I don't actually want that to happen, because I believe ships should be balanced on their own merits or versus their carbon copies. Also I'd like my KDF sci to not end up with an inferior version of a ship, but that's what your thought process would dictate.
The Odyssey was designed with a higher shield mod vs. the Bortas to make up for the Bortas overall superior offensive options.
So let me dig up from a few dozen posts ago...
So aside from the fact that I've addressed this line of reasoning in about 6 posts now, it's hypocritical. You want ships designed around faction merits, but the merit can't be an actual ability, it can only be numerical difference?
So should we just completely throw warbirds out now?
Comments
Gorngonzolla already explained how standard cloaking works. Its innate for KDF battlene cruisers whom suffer no handicap for it. Only Battle Cloaks infer a handicap, hence why the BoP and the Roms have handicaps.
The Defiant doesnt have a standard cloak handicap nor does the AGT GalX, they have both been given extra slots to have the cloak if desired. The Fleet version has even more slots.
The Avenger was not built with a cloak console. It only has the option to use a cloak if desired.
There is no imbalance. There is only your whinning for an perception of being shorted for something you already can enjoy.
Hauk is right, you only show the worst of the fed player.
R.I.P
Why can't the Feds have cloaks on all ships?
what is the current status of the treaty of algeron?
Is D'Tan just saying "We need your help, Mr. Fedration, if the Romulan Republic is going to survive ...... but you can't have cloaking devices":rolleyes:
Is the KDF going to declare double war on the federation if they start introducing cloaks to the fleet?:rolleyes:
Because that would be boring.
Not to mention out of character. The whole cloaking thing should stay as it is - Feds with next-to-no cloaking ships, Klinks with all (almost) cloaking ships, Roms with Battlecloaking ships.
Anything else and you might as well merge everyone into a single faction because there will be no point trying to differentiate anymore.
When the time-gap is more substantial, yes. This was back-to-back ship releases, not even another C-store ship inbetween to blunt it. People are still breaking in their Avengers, and something better has been offered to the other guys, at the same price.
But you're still not getting it. The mogh is to the battlecruiser class what the vesta is to the science vessel class. It is the extravagant, unbalanced crown jewel that the enemy cannot have. The mogh is supposed to be on par with the avenger like the science vessel is to the varanus, ie, it's not. They're faction perk ships.
Klingons do better dps. Their ships cloak. Their elite fleet weapons are built around dps. Klingons have been designed from day one to do dps better than anyone else. That is their house. People may come on their lawn, but at the end of the day, they still own the house. They pay for this with an absolute derth of tank/healer ability compared to the other faction (s). They can do it, but they can't do it as well. They can go on people's science and engineering lawn, but they can't own the whole neighborhood, they chose their little DPS house, so leave it to them, it isn't unpaid for.
What does the vesta sacrifice? Is it not science vessel opulence for science vessel opulence's sake? Why should the mogh have to sacrifice anything? Artisanal craft in your faction's preferred profession has been established already by giving the feds a massive choice of cruisers and science vessels, especially the vesta. Klingons don't have a vesta, will never get one, and now that they've gotten the mogh, the precedent has been set that they shouldn't get one if cryptic expects the mogh's already limited justification for existence to persist.
As I've already mentioned, if you don't want to run the console, run Mask Energy Signature. The Stealth values are nearly identical, there's a thread with a dev comparing the two and thoroughly detailing the "stealth" stat somewhere on these forums, I don't feel like searching for a link, typing all this was already enough. I do recommend it to anyone who really thinks the base cloak, and feds having to use a console for it, is any kind of ground for a handicap argument. You also have the 3 piece set bonus from adapted maco, which is the same ability with an AOE. You have cloaking options that allow you a 10 slot console setup, if those are two absolute requirements of any build you have.
exactly
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It seems you're the one who doesn't get it, the Mogh is not the counterpart to the Vesta, it is the counterpart to the Avenger; the the point they share 90% of their stat one to one. The whole argument there is moot, I'm sorry. A super-BoP would fit that comparison better.
As for stealth, MES is nice but it still is not a true cloak. It is not persistent, you do not get the decloak alpha-strike buff; which Starfleet lack in terms of non-console damage boosts as it is. The Romulan Embassy BOffs only work with cloak, so yes, to optimize Alpha with them you need to cloak, not to use MES.
but isn't merging into a single faction already happening? aside from the levelling up missions what was the last faction specific mission we got at endgame? Hell Feds, Roms and KDF are the dyson sphere alliance in season 8.
even if you were to take the arms race angle into account it would make sense for the feds to plug a gap in that strategic disadvantage by introducing cloaks into the fleet
Not really... Maybe just under 2 years, but not by too much ... What do you think was the last ship to be released?
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Why? There is no imbalance. The Avenger is a fed designed Battle Cruiser that has cloak capabilities that fall under the rules for fed cloaking ships.
The Mogh is a KDF battle cruiser that falls in line with all the rules of KDF battle cruisers.
Where is the imbalance? One console slot to do what feds do not normally do, cloak? Thats how cloaking works for the feds. No rules have been broken. Not even the "the federation will not research cloakng" rule.
Where is the imbalance on the Mogh? Innate cloaking? All KDF battle cruisers have standard cloak. If it had a battle cloak then it would be unfair to not have a handicap.
There is no imbalance, there is only fed whine about imbalance because they feel slighted when they have not been slighted at all.
R.I.P
Vesta = Super science ship.
The kdf sucks at science, they get no vesta. However, they get a Varanus, which is an adequate science vessel.
Mogh = Super battle cruiser
The fed sucks at battle cruisers. They get no mogh. However, they get an avenger, which, when sacrificing a console to fit a cloaking device like many fleet-less klingon battlecruisers do, is an adequate battlecruiser.
The difference in stealth values between basic cloak and MES is so small that it's literally mitigated by any investment in the stealth skill or increase in auxilliary power whatsoever. It shouldn't get the alpha strike decloak pwn stack. Fed cloaking device shouldn't even get that. That treads on the KDF's specialization on damage. So you're welcome for being allowed that perk. Ditto with romboffs.
^^ LOL
How did that one saying go......ah yes - pot, meet kettle! :rolleyes:
Oh, oh......I know this one!!! *raises hand*
It's because this game is called Star Trek, and the IP it represents says that the Federation does not use cloaking technology on their ships!
You know, the same reason why they don't make a Star Wars game and then put Super Mario and Mickey Mouse in it. :rolleyes:
Doesnt mean a social merger is happening. America is allied with the Japanese and Israel yet they are still individualy American.
Being an ally does not make you a clone of your allies.
R.I.P
Yeah that was mostly the combat perspective that was an aspect of how the federation, klingon empire, and their alliance survived many threats. If it wasn't for their original war in the tos era the threats faced in TNG would have destroyed the federation like the borg. If the borg were not so overwhelming sending in one ship then it wouldn't have survived the time when the Klingons broke the treaty and tried to take out DS9. As well it goes so on and so on with dominion and continued borg threats. So in this case I would guess that this will be to ensue the survival of both factions in the future of sto when combating the borg, iconians, tholians and other factions spoken of but not in the game yet. So it all does make sense and we should see some positive sides from the devs once they build the game out to where this fed/kdf war will produce things we will need when the war ends to fight the real enemies out there and *not each other* to some degree lol
So, honestly, the outrage was kinda foreseeable, just as it is foreseeable that people will freak out about whiny Fed players ruining a KDF ship should the devs nerf the stats now.
This isn't about Fluff, realism or much a build in cloaking device poses an advantage in PvP or PVE it's basic logic.
If you give two brothers Icecream and one of them gets an extra cherry on top the other brother is likely pissed, even if he got tons of cherries the passing year and the other got nothing.
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You have one ship on one faction that is mechanically superior to another on another faction.
It is the exact same ship as the other, but with two stats that are better: crew (who cares) and the built-in cloak.
There is no trade-off, there is no price to pay, there is no limiting factor. That is the very definition of game imbalance.
Not according to how the game has been since day one. KDF battle cruisers do not suffer for standard cloak. Its a perk of playing KDF since our vessels have had cloaking for a long time. We do suffer for battle cloaking with lower stats.
The Feds are handicapped for having three cloaking ships by having to use a device and console slot to achieve it, while having been given extra slots to place said device. Its a gameplay feature given the federation against the viewpoint that feds don't cloak as a faction to allow fans to play some of their favorite vessels. The Defiant from DSP and the AGT galaxy. Its the rules by which the feds have access to cloaks and fits the IP reasons on why its a limited function.
there is no inmbalance.
R.I.P
There is an imbalance in price, since the Avenger does not *supply* the cloak console. For those who want to achieve closer parity between these ships, a higher spend in Zen is required. HOWEVER, this is somewhat countered by the KDF need to spend Zen to get the Plasmonic Leech, while the Feds can just spend EC for it. (2k Z for TER, 1k Z for Vandal, so it's a 1k Z difference in value for parity of function).
(Note: Personal opinion: I don't care - I own the cloak anyway from the Defiant, and Mogh > Avenger to me means diddly since Vesta > Everything else Sci).
Actually the KDF has nausicaans which provide a dmg boost that works like apo in its not a base dmg boost like to the weapons at 50 power and both sides had efficient and with leadership having been nerfed basically feds fall behind in boffs.
I do think battlecloaking's ok with lower stats involved, it's a good balancing factor that encourages a different style of play that's all good.
But you have to understand something. All ships of equal tier are to be cut from the same cloth. All lockbox/fleet ships must have the same amount of total value, even if they aren't as highly specialized as some others. At the end of the baking process, there must be the same amount of dough in every cake. Some can go 4/4 weapons, some can go 5/3, some can go 4/3 and turn better, some can go 3/3 and get a bunch of free abilities. Lined up, they look different and play different, but they're all even in value, though not for some roles. That's how you design your endgame gear. That's one of the most basic of design principles. Until you release a new tier of content, all things at the top are even.
I love my fed toon. I love my kdf toon. I can't find the motivation to level my romulan, but that's neither here nor there. But the professional in me finds this blatant discrepancy in two side-by-side ships offensive in the lack of care that was put into incorporating it into the existing ship lists.
I said "mechanical" advantage. What you are describing is an availability advantage.
That's not a mechanical advantage, "get it"?
Here, how does this sound?
The KDF do not deserve, and should never get a proper sci ship.
And if they do, it should be clearly inferior to any Fed versions because "getting their own Fed-style Sci ship" is its own advantage.
I don't actually want that to happen, because I believe ships should be balanced on their own merits or versus their carbon copies. Also I'd like my KDF sci to not end up with an inferior version of a ship, but that's what your thought process would dictate.
The Odyssey was designed with a higher shield mod vs. the Bortas and the Bortas had overall superior offensive options.
So let me dig up from a few dozen posts ago...
So aside from the fact that I've addressed this line of reasoning in about 6 posts now, it's hypocritical. You want ships designed around faction merits, but the merit can't be an actual ability, it can only be numerical difference?
So should we just completely throw warbirds out now?