Actually it was a question. specifically, what the hell? As in what the hell are you blathering about now?
Funny that you of all people are saying that with the weird tangents you were going into earlier. At least I sort of tried to stay on topic except when making fun of your "me me me" pseudo-philosophy.
PvP could be AWESOME in this game with the Star Bases, Mines, Embassy's ect. There is ALOT of competition between Fleets in STO and some of them would like nothing better than to show their superiority over one another by putting an Enemy Fleet's base off line for 24 hours or so...maybe pillage a "PvP War Account" (ECs Fleets put into a battle account to win or lose depending on the battles). If you destroy a Com Array maybe it effect's that Fleets mini map or something, idk...All I know is with a little Dev imagination, PvP could be GREAT in STO....ie: Put up or shut up, settle all scores on the battle field.
As a LTS member and Z-store supporter, I would like to see PvP "Enhanced"...it gets a little old beating on NPC's and then telling people you should fight at the Elite level before you start bragging about how nasty bad you are...THEN after that...Go do a PvP match and then maybe I will listen to you.
Win or Lose I really don't care, PvP adds the "pucker factor" to an MMO and you are missing out if you don't at least give it a go a few times. Why NOT, there is nothing to lose in this game if you die, there is really no death penalty to speak of. However, PvP in STO is verrrry repetitive and gets boring and imho that is one of the reasons for the lack of interest in it.
Anyway, that's my 2 ECs worth.
"Sips her PWE Koolaide and looks at alllll the goodies in the Z store"
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
I wonder if a idea from mario kart could be taken for PvP. One of the reasons that mario kart tends to be fun to play with family members is that even if you massively outclass one of your cousins, children, parents etc the game compensates. The worse you do the better the powerups you get in order to keep the game interesting.
Maybe the PvP should be done the same way. The worse you do the more of a buff you get when you respawn. Those with the best builds would still get the most points but anyone would be competitive before the end of the match. I mean even the worst builds would eventually win if you gave them 10x weapons, shields, energy etc of course they would have to die a LOT to get that far.
Since fighting opponents that are not a threat is not claimed to be not fun (although I have not seen evidence of this in game) this should make PvP a lot more fun. Since even if you win in the beginning eventually their ship would be competitive with yours no matter what tricks you have. Once they can kill you then you would reach a kind of parity.
This is actually a good idea.
It will take a lot more than that to make PVP into something that PVEers will even peek into without immediately leaving (especially if the bunch here is any indication), but if the goal is to get casual players interested and to retain a few of them over time, it is a fair start.
I don't think that's the goal of a lot of posters here, though. Look at the "everyone knows you don't pick-up-group for pvp" people. How the hell does someone get started then?
Unfortunately it might go the way of that special mechanic at Lake Wintergrasp in World of ********'s Lich King expansion. Too many PVPers hated it and whined that it evened the odds and so it was removed. And Wintergrasp started getting really one way all the time and interest faded well before the expansion was replaced by another.
Funny that you of all people are saying that with the weird tangents you were going into earlier. At least I sort of tried to stay on topic except when making fun of your "me me me" pseudo-philosophy.
your still not making sense?!? You mean my defending my point of view? Wow, who knew defending oneself is selfish? I made the same defense on the same two subjects over and over again. You didnt seem to be getting it. I have no idea what tangents you speak of.
You may want to take a step back and breath before you burst a vessel.
PvP could be AWESOME in this game with the Star Bases, Mines, Embassy's ect. There is ALOT of competition between Fleets in STO and some of them would like nothing better than to show their superiority over one another by putting an Enemy Fleet's base off line for 24 hours or so...maybe pillage a "PvP War Account" (ECs Fleets put into a battle account to win or lose depending on the battles). If you destroy a Com Array maybe it effect's that Fleets mini map or something, idk...All I know is with a little Dev imagination, PvP could be GREAT in STO....ie: Put up or shut up, settle all scores on the battle field.
As a LTS member and Z-store supporter, I would like to see PvP "Enhanced"...it gets a little old beating on NPC's and then telling people you should fight at the Elite level before you start bragging about how nasty bad you are...THEN after that...Go do a PvP match and then maybe I will listen to you.
Win or Lose I really don't care, PvP adds the "pucker factor" to an MMO and you are missing out if you don't at least give it a go a few times. Why NOT, there is nothing to lose in this game if you die, there is really no death penalty to speak of. However, PvP in STO is verrrry repetitive and gets boring and imho that is one of the reasons for the lack of interest in it.
Anyway, that's my 2 ECs worth.
The current state of PVP involves premades doing one-sided stomps against scattered groups of randomly assembled pick-up guys. And the premades often don't mind because winning is everything and all that.
It's not very fun unless you're the kind of guy that can play GTA for hours just running over people and completely ignoring the rest of the game. Or watching a bug zapper do its work.
It's definitely not fun to be on the receiving end of a pick-up-group stomp.
your still not making sense?!? You mean my defending my point of view? Wow, who knew defending oneself is selfish?
You may want to take a step back and breath before you burst a vessel.
You could have simply said "u mad" and it would have been the same post, just as tired and predictable, and you'd save some effort typing it out to boot.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
FINALLY caught up with all the posts. Zamorak above that took awhile.
Greetings.
Unless I missed something, it's been a long drive off the rails for a while now, into a ditch, with most of the passengers in a circle screaming and pointing fingers at me. Which is weird because I wasn't driving it to begin with and fell asleep through a part of it.
I wonder if a idea from mario kart could be taken for PvP. One of the reasons that mario kart tends to be fun to play with family members is that even if you massively outclass one of your cousins, children, parents etc the game compensates. The worse you do the better the powerups you get in order to keep the game interesting.
Maybe the PvP should be done the same way. The worse you do the more of a buff you get when you respawn. Those with the best builds would still get the most points but anyone would be competitive before the end of the match. I mean even the worst builds would eventually win if you gave them 10x weapons, shields, energy etc of course they would have to die a LOT to get that far.
Since fighting opponents that are not a threat is not claimed to be not fun (although I have not seen evidence of this in game) this should make PvP a lot more fun. Since even if you win in the beginning eventually their ship would be competitive with yours no matter what tricks you have. Once they can kill you then you would reach a kind of parity.
This is something that TF2 does with random crits.
Another thing to do is have alternate modes that don't really involve direct combat. Like capturing areas, pushing a bomb to destroy an enemy base, blowing up an npc, destroying a generator, anyone can do stuff like that.
Been playing since that head start for this game, I never feared PVP I found it annoying the limited options we had, the exploits. Mostly one sided victories made pvp as fun as pounding bamboo under my nails.
I went immediately to KDF side instant I reached lvl 7 and played it till I had lvl'd two Klinks to lvl 50 on pvp alone. Lost interest in PVP lost interest in the limited content KDF had, and to a point still has. They added a lot of it from then to now. But their costumes still stink.
If Cryptic decided to revist PVP and invest some proper fun maps and balance ot the game I would not mind that at all On PVE side.
They won't do this though, F2P games focus on the cashshops usually and unless they find a way to make pvp profitable. It'll remain a ****hole.
If PvP being dead indicates an MMO will soon die and is a gauge of the general health you might want to know about EQ1. That game had PvP, basically removed it and it is still has a stable subscriber base and that game came out almost 15 years ago now. There is also EQ2 which is about 10 years old now and it is also going pretty well and it has pretty much dead PvP also.
I'm not surprised about EQ. They really didn't pay much attention to their PvP either. I wouldn't be surprised if their decision to remove it entirely was due to a population drop on their PvP servers resulting from that playerbase moving to games like Dark Age of Camelot and WoW, which were designed with PvP as an integral part of the game.
I don't see how PvP is in any way a measure of the health of an MMO especially since it seems in many MMOs the PvP community is pretty much insignificant.
It isn't really. PvP still needs a compelling environment in which to play. Aesthetics matter as much as mechanics.
I can give a somewhat historical example: Dungeons and Dragons Online. It added an entire pvp mechanic that was so unwelcome and pointless to the active, present community that the game floundered harder until it found its feet again.
Of course this sounds like yet another "you can't objectively prove X to the arbitrary standards I have established, which of course do not apply to anything I said".
I'm through engaging you in this forum.
Come to talkrational.org if you have anything to say to me.
PVP needs a serious revamp AND a boost. Power creep and newer ship stats have gotten ridiculous. The price to even "get on the field to PVP" has gotten higher, otherwise you will be way under the power curve. And that's not even counting skill for a brand new PVPer. I would HATE to be a new PVPer right now because it's so ridiculous.
Anyways, I was going to get into one of my long replies, but the reason why PVP (and IMO the game in general) needs a revamp is this:
Target a player and see the completely bewildering array of buffs that are active on that ship. And that's only the stuff you can see, because there are buffs like Reputation stuff that does not show up.
This game has given way, way WAAAYYY too much power to players, and PVP is insane as a result.
In PVE it's not a big deal with the power creep and everyone kicking that same NPC all the time. But against other players, it's ridiculous.
As a primarily PvE player I can tell you what worries me the most about PvP getting attention. Everytime PvPers get something they want it is at the expense of PvE. Recent major example of this would be the Subspace Integration Circuit console. When it first came out it was somewhat useful for PvE, but the PvPers threw a hissy fit because it was supposedly "OP" in PvP so it got nerfed and is now completely worthless trash in PvE. That is why so many of us are against anything PvP related being done in this game, because everytime its at the expense of the majority who don't care about PvP.
Now if they were to truely revamp PvP properly and assign consoles, boff abilities, and weapons separate PvP stats I would be all for that. Then they could stop nerfing things to useless levels in PvE just because of PvPers. Actually add a PvP rep or change it to give reasonable rewards and hell I might even play some PvP.
PVP needs a serious revamp AND a boost. Power creep and newer ship stats have gotten ridiculous. The price to even "get on the field to PVP" has gotten higher, otherwise you will be way under the power curve. And that's not even counting skill for a brand new PVPer. I would HATE to be a new PVPer right now because it's so ridiculous.
Anyways, I was going to get into one of my long replies, but the reason why PVP (and IMO the game in general) needs a revamp is this:
Target a player and see the completely bewildering array of buffs that are active on that ship. And that's only the stuff you can see, because there are buffs like Reputation stuff that does not show up.
This game has given way, way WAAAYYY too much power to players, and PVP is insane as a result.
In PVE it's not a big deal with the power creep and everyone kicking that same NPC all the time. But against other players, it's ridiculous.
Sadly, the PvP forum gets special attention because it's the responsibility of some devs that use it as an ad-hoc QA team. A good portion of the nerfs (not always good) and some bug fixes (mostly good) are discovered by them.
That said, we should just have a different set of gear/rules for PvP and be done with it. Changing weapons and builds because some minmaxer misuses it to pugstomp is silly.
was motivated by PVE players exploiting loopholes, untested items, and bad code. there's never been a time that PvP's gotten Dev attention that resulted in the community getting ANYTHING. (i.e. it's not OUR fault your 60 second STF record's history.)
Um, you cite absolutely nothing yet know why things were nerfed, yeah I am going to listen to you.
First off, after a casual perusal of the first 4 pages of this thread, I will post that, as a PvE-type, I do not "fear" PvP, nor am I apathetic about it.
The "costs" involved? Hyper-expensive ships, full loadout of Mk XII elite fleet gear? etc? Only 100% necessary for "premade, PvP ace" combat. As would be expected, a well flown T5 Freebie can kill poorly-flown lockbox ships, heck, even the "dreaded" JHAS can die to an advanced escort...
My PvP "loathing" stems from a number of sources.
Keybinds: Defense doesn't rely on "timing" anymore, it relies on tying 2x TT and 2x EPtS to the spacebar set to go off as soon as the cooldown(s) end, then slapping R at the start of the fight to max out your speed-based defense rating. Players mistake. They goof. Enemy has no keybind and is 1/2 second early on your internal clock? I get a chance to hit your not-so-TT-reinforced shield for a second or two, and since the defense bonus from EPtS might be off as well my pathetic science ship's 3/3 loadout might actually at least dent your hull...
Builds: A "generalist" PvE-oriented build does not function well in the hyper-min-maxxed world of PvP. Therefore, I need a steady supply of respec tokens or a special built toon to PvP "properly".
Skill effects: GW and Tyken's both got bonuses recently, partially an attempt to restore them a little closer to their Pre-F2P "golden age of science" levels. Fine. However, why was it nerfed in the first place? PvP complaints that an unskilled Tac can kill with GW I with no hope of victim escape from the pre-F2P days? CPB, PSW, Tachyon Beam? All skills that were "nerfed" to play well in PvP, but then becomes worthless when you're not stripping a 30k shield facing, you're stripping 100k shields...
Draconian Roles - as I science/science, I'm welcome for two things. Team heals, and my subnuc beam. If I don't provide both, I'm a schlub. I'd be loved if I swapped from Sci/Sci to Sci/scort, as I bring both the key reason for Sci over Tac (subnuc) and 80%+ of the Tac/scort DPS... Engie/whatever? Not loved at all (well, unless you're assembling a 5x BFaW DEM cruiser-monster that is called cheese by even the "PvP powerful", and even then, Tac/cruiser is more welcome)...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
One reason I can immediatly think of is the fact that a new weapon or ship is released, and the PvP crowd cries that it's op.
The devs fix or nerf it, wich makes the weapon/ship ok to use for the PvP crowd, but makes it lackluster for the PvE crowd.
This has been a problem in most MMO games that has PvP. That is a fact, and not me trying to be nasty to those that like PvP.
In SWG, they released a new Lightsaber, and it was really nice in PvE, since for once you felt like the Lightsaber had some ommph. Then the PvP crowd complained, the dependable Lightsaber got hit with the nerfbat, and you might aswell just use a polearm, since the Lightsaber was about as usefull as throwing rocks out an airlock would be...
One solution is to have pure PvP weapons and armor and what not. Both sides would be happy, so win win....
Point those posts out. Better yet, give us the ratio of those posts to the number of posts in the forum. Cite anything that supports this generalization of the PvP mindset.
I think very few posts have been made that suggest PvP zones that a PvE player would have to enter. There have been many suggestions for PvP zones that a PvE player might want to enter (for a slightly better loot drop or a little more exp), but that's not quite the same thing, is it?
The selfishness of some of the antiPvP posts in these forums boggles the mind.
Response to red text:
I wont do your search for you if you want to be lazy. Theres a post in this very thread wanting more mixed zones. And yes that is the same thing. That is you a PvP player wanting mixed zones so PvE players can enter to get loot so PvP players can kill them for fun. PvP and PvE should never mix and even the one map there is shouldnt have the PvE element.
Response to orange:
Where did I state I am against PvP? I said I quite enjoy PvP that is skill based rather than keybinds and gear. My favorite is capture the flag, sometimes as the flag runner and other times hunting the flag runner down, or defending my teams flag runner. I quite enjoy most any PvP except DM or TDM. Actualy I despise DM and TDM because it is mindless with no point to it. and all STO has is TDM. Even if STO had other match's aside from TDM there really is no skill so it would be boring for me and I dislike gear having any factor in who wins at all so PvP in an MMO is generaly out for me.
But you know how "assume" goes.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
One reason I can immediatly think of is the fact that a new weapon or ship is released, and the PvP crowd cries that it's op.
The devs fix or nerf it, wich makes the weapon/ship ok to use for the PvP crowd, but makes it lackluster for the PvE crowd.
This has been a problem in most MMO games that has PvP. That is a fact, and not me trying to be nasty to those that like PvP.
In SWG, they released a new Lightsaber, and it was really nice in PvE, since for once you felt like the Lightsaber had some ommph. Then the PvP crowd complained, the dependable Lightsaber got hit with the nerfbat, and you might aswell just use a polearm, since the Lightsaber was about as usefull as throwing rocks out an airlock would be...
One solution is to have pure PvP weapons and armor and what not. Both sides would be happy, so win win....
Usually the reason PvPers cry 'that's OP' is because the object in question is not working as intended. Perhaps a better word would be 'broken'. And when something is broken towards the overpowered end of things, PvEers start abusing it in PvE. A classic example is the tricobalt mine bug, which led to unholy amounts of damage being done in both PvP and PvE. Some PvEers STILL complain about that being fixed.
PvEers are much less likely to complain about broken additions because they're not feeling the effect. NPCs don't complain.
People say many combat-related nerfs is always the 'evil PvPers' getting it nerfed. Yet when the nerf or fix is something non-combat, folks are left without their scapegoat. As an old example, it certainly wasn't PvPers who whined that 'the Foundry clickie' missions were 'OP and need to be nerfed'. It was an exploit, pure and simple, not something the devs intended.
On that note, when something is broken, and I do mean broken, and NOT working as it is actually meant to be, any cries of 'nerfs', 'OP', or 'UP' go out the window, because it is broken. Only after it is fixed does it finally get treated like it should, and talking can go from there. Things in the past, despite people saying it was nerfed, were fixed, period.
Question, and I hope people answer it honestly:
How many of you actually use this new stuff that is released? I don't care in what. PvE, PvP, showing in ESD, whatever. Do you USE it? For sake of being recent, think about stuff outta the Voth lockbox.
I'm sure a lot of folks will answer yes if they think only about say, ships. Both the Voth ships are rather nice, in particular, I myself am thinking about getting the Voth Palisade for one of my sci toons.
What about the other stuff? Maybe the new console? I think it's rather nice. Does good damage in a more unique way, has fairly high bleed on it, so it's at least gonna do SOMETHING to an enemy with it's shields up. No real issues with it IMO.
Or how about the new handful of DOFFs they released? The new Explosives Expert on the ground is fun for sci toons.
Maybe the new traits? In this case, the ground ones over the space ones. Space ones, two of them only add HoTs, while the tac one is better. The ground ones each add unique changes to ground captain powers, which is interesting.
I'm probably missing something. But my question stands: Do people actually use this stuff?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
tell me this then: what did it do for you? I mean, as a PVE player.
No Win Scenario Wave 10. It made that a breeze. Not that's it any harder now without it mind you. I just wasted EC to buy it for my toons and now it's useless...
How many of you actually use this new stuff that is released? I don't care in what. PvE, PvP, showing in ESD, whatever. Do you USE it? For sake of being recent, think about stuff outta the Voth lockbox.
I'm sure a lot of folks will answer yes if they think only about say, ships. Both the Voth ships are rather nice, in particular, I myself am thinking about getting the Voth Palisade for one of my sci toons.
What about the other stuff? Maybe the new console? I think it's rather nice. Does good damage in a more unique way, has fairly high bleed on it, so it's at least gonna do SOMETHING to an enemy with it's shields up. No real issues with it IMO.
Or how about the new handful of DOFFs they released? The new Explosives Expert on the ground is fun for sci toons.
Maybe the new traits? In this case, the ground ones over the space ones. Space ones, two of them only add HoTs, while the tac one is better. The ground ones each add unique changes to ground captain powers, which is interesting.
I'm probably missing something. But my question stands: Do people actually use this stuff?
Hmm, lets see so far using:
Sensors Doff -20DR with Target optics use (very nice in the Battlezone) Orbital Destruction trait (much fun imo waay better than ordinary orbital strike) Dino pet (honestly still in box as can't decide who to give it to but he's cute) Voth Ground weapons (kinda nifty so far , but the Protonic weapons fron the Dyson rep are better in the zone + free damage on a crit) Voth shockwave cannon (meh is so-so, got one to test)
and thats it so far honestly have too many ships atm to worry about the 2 new ones
Comments
Funny that you of all people are saying that with the weird tangents you were going into earlier. At least I sort of tried to stay on topic except when making fun of your "me me me" pseudo-philosophy.
As a LTS member and Z-store supporter, I would like to see PvP "Enhanced"...it gets a little old beating on NPC's and then telling people you should fight at the Elite level before you start bragging about how nasty bad you are...THEN after that...Go do a PvP match and then maybe I will listen to you.
Win or Lose I really don't care, PvP adds the "pucker factor" to an MMO and you are missing out if you don't at least give it a go a few times. Why NOT, there is nothing to lose in this game if you die, there is really no death penalty to speak of. However, PvP in STO is verrrry repetitive and gets boring and imho that is one of the reasons for the lack of interest in it.
Anyway, that's my 2 ECs worth.
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
This is actually a good idea.
It will take a lot more than that to make PVP into something that PVEers will even peek into without immediately leaving (especially if the bunch here is any indication), but if the goal is to get casual players interested and to retain a few of them over time, it is a fair start.
I don't think that's the goal of a lot of posters here, though. Look at the "everyone knows you don't pick-up-group for pvp" people. How the hell does someone get started then?
Unfortunately it might go the way of that special mechanic at Lake Wintergrasp in World of ********'s Lich King expansion. Too many PVPers hated it and whined that it evened the odds and so it was removed. And Wintergrasp started getting really one way all the time and interest faded well before the expansion was replaced by another.
your still not making sense?!? You mean my defending my point of view? Wow, who knew defending oneself is selfish? I made the same defense on the same two subjects over and over again. You didnt seem to be getting it. I have no idea what tangents you speak of.
You may want to take a step back and breath before you burst a vessel.
R.I.P
The current state of PVP involves premades doing one-sided stomps against scattered groups of randomly assembled pick-up guys. And the premades often don't mind because winning is everything and all that.
It's not very fun unless you're the kind of guy that can play GTA for hours just running over people and completely ignoring the rest of the game. Or watching a bug zapper do its work.
It's definitely not fun to be on the receiving end of a pick-up-group stomp.
You could have simply said "u mad" and it would have been the same post, just as tired and predictable, and you'd save some effort typing it out to boot.
Try again. Or better yet, don't.
Greetings.
Unless I missed something, it's been a long drive off the rails for a while now, into a ditch, with most of the passengers in a circle screaming and pointing fingers at me. Which is weird because I wasn't driving it to begin with and fell asleep through a part of it.
This is something that TF2 does with random crits.
Another thing to do is have alternate modes that don't really involve direct combat. Like capturing areas, pushing a bomb to destroy an enemy base, blowing up an npc, destroying a generator, anyone can do stuff like that.
I went immediately to KDF side instant I reached lvl 7 and played it till I had lvl'd two Klinks to lvl 50 on pvp alone. Lost interest in PVP lost interest in the limited content KDF had, and to a point still has. They added a lot of it from then to now. But their costumes still stink.
If Cryptic decided to revist PVP and invest some proper fun maps and balance ot the game I would not mind that at all On PVE side.
They won't do this though, F2P games focus on the cashshops usually and unless they find a way to make pvp profitable. It'll remain a ****hole.
I'm not surprised about EQ. They really didn't pay much attention to their PvP either. I wouldn't be surprised if their decision to remove it entirely was due to a population drop on their PvP servers resulting from that playerbase moving to games like Dark Age of Camelot and WoW, which were designed with PvP as an integral part of the game.
It isn't really. PvP still needs a compelling environment in which to play. Aesthetics matter as much as mechanics.
I'm through engaging you in this forum.
Come to talkrational.org if you have anything to say to me.
Bravo, sir. BRAVO.
As for this thread:
PVP needs a serious revamp AND a boost. Power creep and newer ship stats have gotten ridiculous. The price to even "get on the field to PVP" has gotten higher, otherwise you will be way under the power curve. And that's not even counting skill for a brand new PVPer. I would HATE to be a new PVPer right now because it's so ridiculous.
Anyways, I was going to get into one of my long replies, but the reason why PVP (and IMO the game in general) needs a revamp is this:
Target a player and see the completely bewildering array of buffs that are active on that ship. And that's only the stuff you can see, because there are buffs like Reputation stuff that does not show up.
This game has given way, way WAAAYYY too much power to players, and PVP is insane as a result.
In PVE it's not a big deal with the power creep and everyone kicking that same NPC all the time. But against other players, it's ridiculous.
Now if they were to truely revamp PvP properly and assign consoles, boff abilities, and weapons separate PvP stats I would be all for that. Then they could stop nerfing things to useless levels in PvE just because of PvPers. Actually add a PvP rep or change it to give reasonable rewards and hell I might even play some PvP.
Isn't this what I said like five pages ago? :P
I jest, but it's still true~
That said, we should just have a different set of gear/rules for PvP and be done with it. Changing weapons and builds because some minmaxer misuses it to pugstomp is silly.
Um, you cite absolutely nothing yet know why things were nerfed, yeah I am going to listen to you.
Now now now, let's be friends. We all want this game to be better right~?
The "costs" involved? Hyper-expensive ships, full loadout of Mk XII elite fleet gear? etc? Only 100% necessary for "premade, PvP ace" combat. As would be expected, a well flown T5 Freebie can kill poorly-flown lockbox ships, heck, even the "dreaded" JHAS can die to an advanced escort...
My PvP "loathing" stems from a number of sources.
Keybinds: Defense doesn't rely on "timing" anymore, it relies on tying 2x TT and 2x EPtS to the spacebar set to go off as soon as the cooldown(s) end, then slapping R at the start of the fight to max out your speed-based defense rating. Players mistake. They goof. Enemy has no keybind and is 1/2 second early on your internal clock? I get a chance to hit your not-so-TT-reinforced shield for a second or two, and since the defense bonus from EPtS might be off as well my pathetic science ship's 3/3 loadout might actually at least dent your hull...
Builds: A "generalist" PvE-oriented build does not function well in the hyper-min-maxxed world of PvP. Therefore, I need a steady supply of respec tokens or a special built toon to PvP "properly".
Skill effects: GW and Tyken's both got bonuses recently, partially an attempt to restore them a little closer to their Pre-F2P "golden age of science" levels. Fine. However, why was it nerfed in the first place? PvP complaints that an unskilled Tac can kill with GW I with no hope of victim escape from the pre-F2P days? CPB, PSW, Tachyon Beam? All skills that were "nerfed" to play well in PvP, but then becomes worthless when you're not stripping a 30k shield facing, you're stripping 100k shields...
Draconian Roles - as I science/science, I'm welcome for two things. Team heals, and my subnuc beam. If I don't provide both, I'm a schlub. I'd be loved if I swapped from Sci/Sci to Sci/scort, as I bring both the key reason for Sci over Tac (subnuc) and 80%+ of the Tac/scort DPS... Engie/whatever? Not loved at all (well, unless you're assembling a 5x BFaW DEM cruiser-monster that is called cheese by even the "PvP powerful", and even then, Tac/cruiser is more welcome)...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The devs fix or nerf it, wich makes the weapon/ship ok to use for the PvP crowd, but makes it lackluster for the PvE crowd.
This has been a problem in most MMO games that has PvP. That is a fact, and not me trying to be nasty to those that like PvP.
In SWG, they released a new Lightsaber, and it was really nice in PvE, since for once you felt like the Lightsaber had some ommph. Then the PvP crowd complained, the dependable Lightsaber got hit with the nerfbat, and you might aswell just use a polearm, since the Lightsaber was about as usefull as throwing rocks out an airlock would be...
One solution is to have pure PvP weapons and armor and what not. Both sides would be happy, so win win....
Response to red text:
I wont do your search for you if you want to be lazy. Theres a post in this very thread wanting more mixed zones. And yes that is the same thing. That is you a PvP player wanting mixed zones so PvE players can enter to get loot so PvP players can kill them for fun. PvP and PvE should never mix and even the one map there is shouldnt have the PvE element.
Response to orange:
Where did I state I am against PvP? I said I quite enjoy PvP that is skill based rather than keybinds and gear. My favorite is capture the flag, sometimes as the flag runner and other times hunting the flag runner down, or defending my teams flag runner. I quite enjoy most any PvP except DM or TDM. Actualy I despise DM and TDM because it is mindless with no point to it. and all STO has is TDM. Even if STO had other match's aside from TDM there really is no skill so it would be boring for me and I dislike gear having any factor in who wins at all so PvP in an MMO is generaly out for me.
But you know how "assume" goes.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Usually the reason PvPers cry 'that's OP' is because the object in question is not working as intended. Perhaps a better word would be 'broken'. And when something is broken towards the overpowered end of things, PvEers start abusing it in PvE. A classic example is the tricobalt mine bug, which led to unholy amounts of damage being done in both PvP and PvE. Some PvEers STILL complain about that being fixed.
PvEers are much less likely to complain about broken additions because they're not feeling the effect. NPCs don't complain.
PvP has always been a convenient scapegoat.
People say many combat-related nerfs is always the 'evil PvPers' getting it nerfed. Yet when the nerf or fix is something non-combat, folks are left without their scapegoat. As an old example, it certainly wasn't PvPers who whined that 'the Foundry clickie' missions were 'OP and need to be nerfed'. It was an exploit, pure and simple, not something the devs intended.
On that note, when something is broken, and I do mean broken, and NOT working as it is actually meant to be, any cries of 'nerfs', 'OP', or 'UP' go out the window, because it is broken. Only after it is fixed does it finally get treated like it should, and talking can go from there. Things in the past, despite people saying it was nerfed, were fixed, period.
Question, and I hope people answer it honestly:
How many of you actually use this new stuff that is released? I don't care in what. PvE, PvP, showing in ESD, whatever. Do you USE it? For sake of being recent, think about stuff outta the Voth lockbox.
I'm sure a lot of folks will answer yes if they think only about say, ships. Both the Voth ships are rather nice, in particular, I myself am thinking about getting the Voth Palisade for one of my sci toons.
What about the other stuff? Maybe the new console? I think it's rather nice. Does good damage in a more unique way, has fairly high bleed on it, so it's at least gonna do SOMETHING to an enemy with it's shields up. No real issues with it IMO.
Or how about the new handful of DOFFs they released? The new Explosives Expert on the ground is fun for sci toons.
Maybe the new traits? In this case, the ground ones over the space ones. Space ones, two of them only add HoTs, while the tac one is better. The ground ones each add unique changes to ground captain powers, which is interesting.
I'm probably missing something. But my question stands: Do people actually use this stuff?
No Win Scenario Wave 10. It made that a breeze. Not that's it any harder now without it mind you. I just wasted EC to buy it for my toons and now it's useless...
We all know the Dark Side is PvP, so why are you PvP'ers complaining:D
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hmm, lets see so far using:
Sensors Doff -20DR with Target optics use (very nice in the Battlezone)
Orbital Destruction trait (much fun imo waay better than ordinary orbital strike)
Dino pet (honestly still in box as can't decide who to give it to but he's cute)
Voth Ground weapons (kinda nifty so far
Voth shockwave cannon (meh is so-so, got one to test)
and thats it so far honestly have too many ships atm to worry about the 2 new ones