I don't care about PVP. So I don't fear it being changed. I had my fill of PVP on another game, so therefor I won't be doing it. I usually avoid PVP like the plague.
If PvP being dead indicates an MMO will soon die and is a gauge of the general health you might want to know about EQ1. That game had PvP, basically removed it and it is still has a stable subscriber base and that game came out almost 15 years ago now. There is also EQ2 which is about 10 years old now and it is also going pretty well and it has pretty much dead PvP also.
I don't see how PvP is in any way a measure of the health of an MMO especially since it seems in many MMOs the PvP community is pretty much insignificant. I remember I did PvP once in EQ1 to prove a point that the classes where not balanced against each other and could not be balanced against each other.
I accepted the challenge from a warrior while I was playing a necromancer. I rooted him and then applied a bunch of DoTs to him and then sat down just out of reach and waited for him to die. It took several minutes. There was nothing he could do. The point is that in PvE balanced games you don't have classes balanced against each other you have classes balanced with each other against the in game content.
In STO new stuff is going to constantly be added that will completely TRIBBLE up PvP balanced but it is great for PvE stuff where balance is not an issue. Heck if I could fly a borg tactical cube with 20 weapons mounts on it I probably would just for the fun of it. That is one reason that if PvP is going to be successful it needs to be separate. Have its own gear, restrictions etc. The problem is that I doubt that investment would pay for itself but that is up to cryptic and PWE to decide.
PvE should never require doing PvP to get the latest gear and definitely should not have unique PvE usable gear and the same is true in reverse.
I don't think the majority of the PvP playerbase wants a 'captive audience' as "amalefactor" seems to argue rather vociferously. The only people who want that are the few who gets their kicks from ganking essentially helpless opponents. . .and despite what many PvEers seem to think, that's not the majority of the PvP community. If I had to make a guess, it's maybe 1/10th of the community. In Ker'rat, people generally just avoid the people who don't fight back or fight back kinda pitifully because they're not really set up for PvP. Those are boring opponents, in the long run. Now, occasionally there will be spawncamping by either side. It's the nature of the zone, and its one of the risks one has to accept when using Ker'rat. Further work on the spawnpoint randomization is needed, because the Feddies don't seem to spawn as randomly as the KDF, and are easier to spawncamp.
As for people complaining that Ker'rat is the equivalent of 'luring hapless PvEers to be ganked'. . .sucks to be the PvEers. Seriously. It's a WARZONE. It's a PvPvE zone, and by going in there to 'farm' the drops or w/e, you accept the risks of being there. You accept that KDF players will try to attack and destroy you, and vice versa. There is ZERO requirement that you HAVE to do it. It's not even part of the storyline arcs. It's purely optional.
I don't even think most of the PvP community is really asking for 'exclusive PvE gear that can only be obtained via PvP'. What most folks seem interested in is additional dilithium rewards, more reputation mark rewards so you can level your rep through PvP instead of PvE, and more PvP content in the form of maps/persistent zones. Oh, and a player matching system that segregates the uber-elite PvPers from the average/mediocre PvPers so that there aren't as many slaughter-fests.
As for PvP elitist mindsets. . .hmmm. . .I can't deny that some PvPers have that mindset. Occasionally I'll even express such views, usually when I'm in a grumpy mood after having to constantly grind the same boring PvE missions to get needed resources. But I don't think that extends to 'Elite snobby PvPers just want helpless targets to gank, or want all the attention to themselves'. That's an exaggeration. Most PvP folk just want SOMETHING in the way of PvP development. Our requests aren't particularly extravagant, and PvP additions/revamps could be coupled with additional PvE content so that both sides get something. It would be more than the PvP community's been getting. . .ever.
I don't think non-PvPers really understand just how neglected the PvP community is. It would explain all the hating on PvPers for 'ruining PvE'. The PvP community is even more neglected than the KDF community. . .the KDF community at least gets the occasional bit of work/development. The devs seemingly don't listen to the PvP community much (when the devs fix broken gameplay aspects, they do it because PvEers were abusing them and not being quiet about it), the PvP community is mostly working off the same content that PvP had at the start of the game (biggest deliberate change I can think of is when Cryptic created faction-only queues, like the Federation vs Federation queues. . .and that was in response to Federation players complaining about cloakers), and the rewards for PvPing are still rather pitiful.
And several games have pretty much proved that it's a market largely unaddressable with videogames.
And if you got *all* these wannabe Klingons to play STO, the population blip wouldn't even be noticed. You notice these people at a con because they stand out. But unless you can find a hundred thousand of these people and then get them to play STO, it's not the major market you believe it to be.
People don't want to play Klingons. Anything else is rationalization.
Ok. Now we get to the meat of the matter, which is that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
All true.
But what you ignore is that you have to completely renormalize the entire freaking game.
It would help PvE balance. There's absolutely no evidence that it would help the bottom line, however. In fact, there's an excellent argument that the opposite is true. Simple example: if the Fleet Assault Cruiser is as good a ship as a JHAS, that would be a significant loss to Cryptic/PWE.
Actually, what they have been doing so far is working, so there's very little reason for them to change strategies, especially for one ("Fix PvP and you'll be making money hand over fist.") that has failed in other MMOs
Thank you for saving me the trouble. Very good post and said it all for me and more.
I can give a somewhat historical example: Dungeons and Dragons Online. It added an entire pvp mechanic that was so unwelcome and pointless to the active, present community that the game floundered harder until it found its feet again.
Of course this sounds like yet another "you can't objectively prove X to the arbitrary standards I have established, which of course do not apply to anything I said".
TBH I've been playing for about a year and half. but i avoid PVP alot of the time because often times when i do, I'm bombarded with cheese and spam and can't survive long enough for it to be an enjoyable experience. I know there are those among the PvP community who do play honorable and to those i commend. but as a random pug sometimes, it's almost a waste of my time to even try. When i do PvP it is within my fleet among ppl i know who won't clown me and talk down on me for my short comings for being a PvP noob so to say. So as far as a revamp goes I am all for it, just so long as its brings a sense of balance and fun to it for everyone to enjoy and not just people crunching numbers.
I find it amusing that instead of using this thread to ask questions of like what if the disabled consoles, normalized everybody to mk XII purples, or something along those lines. It just became that pvers are whiners and fear pvp. Or that pvers don't like challenge. Or other insults.
But even with that when I hear folks in game say that it's not challenging I have to laugh. They are not looking for a challenge. They are looking for a way to get more and better gear.
Want a challenge? do a elite cure with mk II white and no consoles. On ground? Just melee mobs with your fists. Otherwise you are not seeking a challenge you are seeking bragging rights.
And as it's been said before that why pvers don't care for pvp. It's not losing. It's losing for no reason.
If the side I'm on is a pug with a mix of new and old players with again a mix of good and bad gear. What chance do we have against a premade whose sporting mk XII purples using aux2bat and other tricks?
They need to add a "Token" for completing a PvP event.
Create one mission on each Reputation that requires this single Token.
Have it grant as much Reputation EXP as that Reputations biggest Daily Mission.
Sit back and watch the PvP queues start to fill.
Don't create a PvP Reputation, but do create a set of PvP Vendors and add them to Fleet Starbases and Homeworlds.
On these PvP Vendors, sell weapons and equipment sets from the Mirror Universe for PvP Tokens.
Until of course people get repulsed by what they have to put up with when they enter queues, especially when they are there for the exact reason you want them there: cheap easy kills to stroke your ego with.
Example of that: the early STO currency grinds, one of which lead to some of the best statted purple Mk X gear, acquired only through PVP (marks of exploration had slightly less desirable traits attached). I pvp'd anyway because the rigid-headed theorycrafters didn't quite take it over yet. But it still bled curious people who queued, constantly.
A large part of it was rotten attitudes and hostility on the part of the sore winners. It wasn't enough to jump unprepared people. Some had to make it very personal, to the point that describing it here would liklely get a forum warning.
Yet claims are made here about how civil people are in PVP now. Skeptical, especially considering what I'm seeing here.
it's a political themed message board, if my interpretation of the name is correct, and given his reactions, I'd hazard a guess he may spend (or have spent) too much time there.
It happens, looks like he took his ball and went home anyway.
Thanks. it does explain his over reaction to word liberal though.
I find it amusing that instead of using this thread to ask questions of like what if the disabled consoles, normalized everybody to mk XII purples, or something along those lines. It just became that pvers are whiners and fear pvp. Or that pvers don't like challenge. Or other insults.
But even with that when I hear folks in game say that it's not challenging I have to laugh. They are not looking for a challenge. They are looking for a way to get more and better gear.
Want a challenge? do a elite cure with mk II white and no consoles. On ground? Just melee mobs with your fists. Otherwise you are not seeking a challenge you are seeking bragging rights.
And as it's been said before that why pvers don't care for pvp. It's not losing. It's losing for no reason.
If the side I'm on is a pug with a mix of new and old players with again a mix of good and bad gear. What chance do we have against a premade whose sporting mk XII purples using aux2bat and other tricks?
A lot of mysterious motives and a lot of hypocrisy and contraditions of reason can be cleared up quickly when you tune into the "ME ME ME" mantra that seems to be ringing through so many of their heads.
Thanks. it does explain his over reaction to word liberal though.
Either you're talking to your alt, or you two might want to start dating.
By the way, playing another game for a bit and leaving you to ranting to strangers about how being a selfish jerk is awesome and philosophical and stuff is hardly "taking my ball and going home." I'm not here on your behalf and only came back to answer people that are less self-important than you.
If PvP being dead indicates an MMO will soon die and is a gauge of the general health you might want to know about EQ1. That game had PvP, basically removed it and it is still has a stable subscriber base and that game came out almost 15 years ago now. There is also EQ2 which is about 10 years old now and it is also going pretty well and it has pretty much dead PvP also.
EQ 1&2 focused on the quest, the dungeon and the raid. To this day, I have yet to see any mmor do dungeons and raids better than the Everquest.
STO doesn't have a direction. It maintains it's success solely off the success of movies and television shows.
STO sucks at telling stories and solves everything with a gun.
There are no factions to worry about and everything in the game is linear. Everything except PvP.
With PvP, it's a new adventure everyday. And like everything, the more you do it, the better you understand it and the more enjoyable it becomes.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
EQ 1&2 focused on the quest, the dungeon and the raid. To this day, I have yet to see any mmor do dungeons and raids better than the Everquest.
STO doesn't have a direction. It maintains it's success solely off the success of movies and television shows.
STO sucks at telling stories and solves everything with a gun.
There are no factions to worry about and everything in the game is linear. Everything except PvP.
With PvP, it's a new adventure everyday. And like everything, the more you do it, the better you understand it and the more enjoyable it becomes.
That "new adventure" thing is an incredible stretch. In games better made and balanced for it, sure, PVP can be interesting and provide a somewhat new approach to play each day. Here, its a checklist of template stackings and power rotations, and that's it. Period. The guy with less of these loses, and that goes exponentially for teams.
I find it amusing that instead of using this thread to ask questions of like what if the disabled consoles, normalized everybody to mk XII purples, or something along those lines. It just became that pvers are whiners and fear pvp. Or that pvers don't like challenge. Or other insults.
But even with that when I hear folks in game say that it's not challenging I have to laugh. They are not looking for a challenge. They are looking for a way to get more and better gear.
Want a challenge? do a elite cure with mk II white and no consoles. On ground? Just melee mobs with your fists. Otherwise you are not seeking a challenge you are seeking bragging rights.
And as it's been said before that why pvers don't care for pvp. It's not losing. It's losing for no reason.
If the side I'm on is a pug with a mix of new and old players with again a mix of good and bad gear. What chance do we have against a premade whose sporting mk XII purples using aux2bat and other tricks?
Are you kidding me? I've seen more insults to PvPers than vice versa in this thread. I read this entire thread, all 22 pages since I posted, and I've seen a LOT of spam from amalefactor with lots of insults and strawman arguments. You're just seeing what you want to see.
And anyone with an ounce of sense ALREADY knows that you don't pug queues. Pugging STFs is usually a recipe for frustration, and pugging PvP queues is just asking for trouble. So please, stop using 'bag pugs' as a reason why PvP is 'bad'.
Boring meme aside, you're only demonstrating that there's not much more here to argue or discuss.
The PVPers here want everything just for them, to hell of whether its viable for Cryptic. PVEers are "afraid" of them and (insert weird objectivist ranting here).
Step back from this thread for a moment and take an outside look at it and it is very clear only a very verbal, selfish, and obnoxious minority stands to benefit from vague demands of "make everyone be forced to pvp" and other rubbish.
A lot of mysterious motives and a lot of hypocrisy and contraditions of reason can be cleared up quickly when you tune into the "ME ME ME" mantra that seems to be ringing through so many of their heads.
You mean the 'ME ME ME' mantra you CLAIM we seem to have. Just because you spew something left and right, doesn't mean it's the truth. You haven't even provided actual examples of it, and anytime someone calls you on it you say 'STOP PESTERING ME WITH YOUR DECONSTRUCTIONIST ARGUMENTS' and keep on trolling.
Surely you have something better to do than spam this thread.
Are you kidding me? I've seen more insults to PvPers than vice versa in this thread. I read this entire thread, all 22 pages since I posted, and I've seen a LOT of spam from amalefactor with lots of insults and strawman arguments. You're just seeing what you want to see.
And anyone with an ounce of sense ALREADY knows that you don't pug queues. Pugging STFs is usually a recipe for frustration, and pugging PvP queues is just asking for trouble. So please, stop using 'bag pugs' as a reason why PvP is 'bad'.
Confirmation bias and selective perception, and nothing more.
If it is so "ounce of sense" easy to argue that no one should pug queues, then how exactly are we supposed to revamp PVP again? It may take more than a few ounces of sense for you to get it, but premades of rigidly super optimized powergame builds aren't entry-level fun for newcomers.
What is the plan to get more people into PVP and to stay there? Or is there one?
Again this just sounds like "me me me send me more lambs to slaughter" without a viable business model to back it up or any incentive to keep those lambs volunteering.
I don't need to step back from this thread lol. I just got here one page ago..
Maybe you should take your own advice. :P
I asked for you to step back for perception purposes, not to actually leave the thread.
Funny you ask for me by name and give a total pass to the guys that are doing the usual stable of personal attacks that you are so conveniently ignoring because they agree with you.
Confirmation bias and selective perception, and nothing more.
If it is so "ounce of sense" easy to argue that no one should pug queues, then how exactly are we supposed to revamp PVP again? It may take more than a few ounces of sense for you to get it, but premades of rigidly super optimized powergame builds aren't entry-level fun for newcomers.
What is the plan to get more people into PVP and to stay there? Or is there one?
Again this just sounds like "me me me send me more lambs to slaughter" without a viable business model to back it up or any incentive to keep those lambs volunteering.
If you had bothered to actually read people's arguments instead of spewing insults and accusations, you'd already know the answer to your question. Others have suggested a matchmaking system that separates these dreaded 'elite PvPers' you seem to loathe from the average player. Someone already CREATED one as an example of how it could be done.
Also, weren't you supposed to have left the thread already? Can't take your own advice, troll?
The plan is the same as it is for the KDF faction. Spend money to make money.
The KDF faction retains a micro playerbase because Cryptic/PWE refuse to invest.
The same is true of PvP development.
No reason to harsh on these threads man, nothing will ever be done by them to do anything with PvP.
That may be part of it but it is not the whole.
KDF has been a small faction from the start, and started as pretty much PVP only. Many ships were added, many missions (yes yes not as many as Feds, I'm assuming I'm about to hear that) and ultimately, not everyone was interested in playing KDF. You might not believe this, but it is quite likely because people who think Star Trek and play a Star Trek game want more or less their own Enterprise, and kind of want to be like that Picard guy or maybe Kirk. Simply evening out content distribution and assuming an even amount of people will automatically jump ship to the other side is a bit unfounded, especially after years of precedent where the playerbase isn't likely to grow all that much even on a good season.
Saying your opinion is "true" doesn't make it so. It is possible, yes, but some games just aren't that great for PVP the way they currently are. This may well be one of them. Short of a drastic retooling of game mechanics that PVEers may utterly reject, the way powers can stack and stack and overstack in this game means that asymmetry is the norm, and that most PVP fights are won before they even begin. It's not sustainable, and short of cheap kicks for winners, it's not very fun.
If you had bothered to actually read people's arguments instead of spewing insults and accusations, you'd already know the answer to your question. Others have suggested a matchmaking system that separates these dreaded 'elite PvPers' you seem to loathe from the average player. Someone already CREATED one as an example of how it could be done.
Also, weren't you supposed to have left the thread already? Can't take your own advice, troll?
I don't recall saying I'd leave the thread as much as stop paying attention to one particular poster. And I did have other things to do and came back after a while.
Funny that you complain about insults and accusations and a breath later call me a troll. Projection is pretty obvious here, but I doubt that will sink in.
Either you're talking to your alt, or you two might want to start dating.
By the way, playing another game for a bit and leaving you to ranting to strangers about how being a selfish jerk is awesome and philosophical and stuff is hardly "taking my ball and going home." I'm not here on your behalf and only came back to answer people that are less self-important than you.
[/QUOTE] And anyone with an ounce of sense ALREADY knows that you don't pug queues. Pugging STFs is usually a recipe for frustration, and pugging PvP queues is just asking for trouble. So please, stop using 'bag pugs' as a reason why PvP is 'bad'.[/QUOTE]
Ok that's not true. I "pug" elite stfs all the time and 90% of the time we get the optional. And you want to bring new players but you want them to be premades?
Really?
So I take it you didn't like my ideas for making pvp more equal since you don't even mention that. But take the chance and talk about another poster.
Then make an untrue claim about pugs. Also, if you are going to get new pvprs they will be pugs... What else would they be?
Saying your opinion is "true" doesn't make it so. It is possible, yes, but some games just aren't that great for PVP the way they currently are. This may well be one of them. Short of a drastic retooling of game mechanics that PVEers may utterly reject, the way powers can stack and stack and overstack in this game means that asymmetry is the norm, and that most PVP fights are won before they even begin. It's not sustainable, and short of cheap kicks for winners, it's not very fun.
I wonder if a idea from mario kart could be taken for PvP. One of the reasons that mario kart tends to be fun to play with family members is that even if you massively outclass one of your cousins, children, parents etc the game compensates. The worse you do the better the powerups you get in order to keep the game interesting.
Maybe the PvP should be done the same way. The worse you do the more of a buff you get when you respawn. Those with the best builds would still get the most points but anyone would be competitive before the end of the match. I mean even the worst builds would eventually win if you gave them 10x weapons, shields, energy etc of course they would have to die a LOT to get that far.
Since fighting opponents that are not a threat is not claimed to be not fun (although I have not seen evidence of this in game) this should make PvP a lot more fun. Since even if you win in the beginning eventually their ship would be competitive with yours no matter what tricks you have. Once they can kill you then you would reach a kind of parity.
Another non-answer. I guess it beats more Atlas Shrugged pseudowisdom.
Face it. This thread's running out of steam. I might wander off again and you and your pals can wring your hands, but this thread's going nowhere.
Actually it was a question. specifically, what the hell? As in what the hell are you blathering about now?
I know those other posters, the KDF is a small fanbase. (Hi guys)
Awesomness of being a selfish jerk?? By not agreeing imposed altruism is true altruism??
Who said anything about your ball?
I was merely puzzled by another of your attacking posts.
Comments
Create one mission on each Reputation that requires this single Token.
Have it grant as much Reputation EXP as that Reputations biggest Daily Mission.
Sit back and watch the PvP queues start to fill.
Don't create a PvP Reputation, but do create a set of PvP Vendors and add them to Fleet Starbases and Homeworlds.
On these PvP Vendors, sell weapons and equipment sets from the Mirror Universe for PvP Tokens.
If PvP being dead indicates an MMO will soon die and is a gauge of the general health you might want to know about EQ1. That game had PvP, basically removed it and it is still has a stable subscriber base and that game came out almost 15 years ago now. There is also EQ2 which is about 10 years old now and it is also going pretty well and it has pretty much dead PvP also.
I don't see how PvP is in any way a measure of the health of an MMO especially since it seems in many MMOs the PvP community is pretty much insignificant. I remember I did PvP once in EQ1 to prove a point that the classes where not balanced against each other and could not be balanced against each other.
I accepted the challenge from a warrior while I was playing a necromancer. I rooted him and then applied a bunch of DoTs to him and then sat down just out of reach and waited for him to die. It took several minutes. There was nothing he could do. The point is that in PvE balanced games you don't have classes balanced against each other you have classes balanced with each other against the in game content.
In STO new stuff is going to constantly be added that will completely TRIBBLE up PvP balanced but it is great for PvE stuff where balance is not an issue. Heck if I could fly a borg tactical cube with 20 weapons mounts on it I probably would just for the fun of it. That is one reason that if PvP is going to be successful it needs to be separate. Have its own gear, restrictions etc. The problem is that I doubt that investment would pay for itself but that is up to cryptic and PWE to decide.
PvE should never require doing PvP to get the latest gear and definitely should not have unique PvE usable gear and the same is true in reverse.
I'd even almost go as far as saying that there's barely any point in having different factions other than the leveling content.
I don't think the majority of the PvP playerbase wants a 'captive audience' as "amalefactor" seems to argue rather vociferously. The only people who want that are the few who gets their kicks from ganking essentially helpless opponents. . .and despite what many PvEers seem to think, that's not the majority of the PvP community. If I had to make a guess, it's maybe 1/10th of the community. In Ker'rat, people generally just avoid the people who don't fight back or fight back kinda pitifully because they're not really set up for PvP. Those are boring opponents, in the long run. Now, occasionally there will be spawncamping by either side. It's the nature of the zone, and its one of the risks one has to accept when using Ker'rat. Further work on the spawnpoint randomization is needed, because the Feddies don't seem to spawn as randomly as the KDF, and are easier to spawncamp.
As for people complaining that Ker'rat is the equivalent of 'luring hapless PvEers to be ganked'. . .sucks to be the PvEers. Seriously. It's a WARZONE. It's a PvPvE zone, and by going in there to 'farm' the drops or w/e, you accept the risks of being there. You accept that KDF players will try to attack and destroy you, and vice versa. There is ZERO requirement that you HAVE to do it. It's not even part of the storyline arcs. It's purely optional.
I don't even think most of the PvP community is really asking for 'exclusive PvE gear that can only be obtained via PvP'. What most folks seem interested in is additional dilithium rewards, more reputation mark rewards so you can level your rep through PvP instead of PvE, and more PvP content in the form of maps/persistent zones. Oh, and a player matching system that segregates the uber-elite PvPers from the average/mediocre PvPers so that there aren't as many slaughter-fests.
As for PvP elitist mindsets. . .hmmm. . .I can't deny that some PvPers have that mindset. Occasionally I'll even express such views, usually when I'm in a grumpy mood after having to constantly grind the same boring PvE missions to get needed resources. But I don't think that extends to 'Elite snobby PvPers just want helpless targets to gank, or want all the attention to themselves'. That's an exaggeration. Most PvP folk just want SOMETHING in the way of PvP development. Our requests aren't particularly extravagant, and PvP additions/revamps could be coupled with additional PvE content so that both sides get something. It would be more than the PvP community's been getting. . .ever.
I don't think non-PvPers really understand just how neglected the PvP community is. It would explain all the hating on PvPers for 'ruining PvE'. The PvP community is even more neglected than the KDF community. . .the KDF community at least gets the occasional bit of work/development. The devs seemingly don't listen to the PvP community much (when the devs fix broken gameplay aspects, they do it because PvEers were abusing them and not being quiet about it), the PvP community is mostly working off the same content that PvP had at the start of the game (biggest deliberate change I can think of is when Cryptic created faction-only queues, like the Federation vs Federation queues. . .and that was in response to Federation players complaining about cloakers), and the rewards for PvPing are still rather pitiful.
Thank you for saving me the trouble. Very good post and said it all for me and more.
I can give a somewhat historical example: Dungeons and Dragons Online. It added an entire pvp mechanic that was so unwelcome and pointless to the active, present community that the game floundered harder until it found its feet again.
Of course this sounds like yet another "you can't objectively prove X to the arbitrary standards I have established, which of course do not apply to anything I said".
But even with that when I hear folks in game say that it's not challenging I have to laugh. They are not looking for a challenge. They are looking for a way to get more and better gear.
Want a challenge? do a elite cure with mk II white and no consoles. On ground? Just melee mobs with your fists. Otherwise you are not seeking a challenge you are seeking bragging rights.
And as it's been said before that why pvers don't care for pvp. It's not losing. It's losing for no reason.
If the side I'm on is a pug with a mix of new and old players with again a mix of good and bad gear. What chance do we have against a premade whose sporting mk XII purples using aux2bat and other tricks?
Until of course people get repulsed by what they have to put up with when they enter queues, especially when they are there for the exact reason you want them there: cheap easy kills to stroke your ego with.
Example of that: the early STO currency grinds, one of which lead to some of the best statted purple Mk X gear, acquired only through PVP (marks of exploration had slightly less desirable traits attached). I pvp'd anyway because the rigid-headed theorycrafters didn't quite take it over yet. But it still bled curious people who queued, constantly.
A large part of it was rotten attitudes and hostility on the part of the sore winners. It wasn't enough to jump unprepared people. Some had to make it very personal, to the point that describing it here would liklely get a forum warning.
Yet claims are made here about how civil people are in PVP now. Skeptical, especially considering what I'm seeing here.
Thanks. it does explain his over reaction to word liberal though.
R.I.P
A lot of mysterious motives and a lot of hypocrisy and contraditions of reason can be cleared up quickly when you tune into the "ME ME ME" mantra that seems to be ringing through so many of their heads.
Either you're talking to your alt, or you two might want to start dating.
By the way, playing another game for a bit and leaving you to ranting to strangers about how being a selfish jerk is awesome and philosophical and stuff is hardly "taking my ball and going home." I'm not here on your behalf and only came back to answer people that are less self-important than you.
EQ 1&2 focused on the quest, the dungeon and the raid. To this day, I have yet to see any mmor do dungeons and raids better than the Everquest.
STO doesn't have a direction. It maintains it's success solely off the success of movies and television shows.
STO sucks at telling stories and solves everything with a gun.
There are no factions to worry about and everything in the game is linear. Everything except PvP.
With PvP, it's a new adventure everyday. And like everything, the more you do it, the better you understand it and the more enjoyable it becomes.
That "new adventure" thing is an incredible stretch. In games better made and balanced for it, sure, PVP can be interesting and provide a somewhat new approach to play each day. Here, its a checklist of template stackings and power rotations, and that's it. Period. The guy with less of these loses, and that goes exponentially for teams.
There is a reason why Black Hawk helicopters don't come with side mounted sling shots...
So if you queue up for PvP and that is what you are going to use, expect death and lols.
Are you kidding me? I've seen more insults to PvPers than vice versa in this thread. I read this entire thread, all 22 pages since I posted, and I've seen a LOT of spam from amalefactor with lots of insults and strawman arguments. You're just seeing what you want to see.
And anyone with an ounce of sense ALREADY knows that you don't pug queues. Pugging STFs is usually a recipe for frustration, and pugging PvP queues is just asking for trouble. So please, stop using 'bag pugs' as a reason why PvP is 'bad'.
Boring meme aside, you're only demonstrating that there's not much more here to argue or discuss.
The PVPers here want everything just for them, to hell of whether its viable for Cryptic. PVEers are "afraid" of them and (insert weird objectivist ranting here).
Step back from this thread for a moment and take an outside look at it and it is very clear only a very verbal, selfish, and obnoxious minority stands to benefit from vague demands of "make everyone be forced to pvp" and other rubbish.
You mean the 'ME ME ME' mantra you CLAIM we seem to have. Just because you spew something left and right, doesn't mean it's the truth. You haven't even provided actual examples of it, and anytime someone calls you on it you say 'STOP PESTERING ME WITH YOUR DECONSTRUCTIONIST ARGUMENTS' and keep on trolling.
Surely you have something better to do than spam this thread.
Maybe you should take your own advice. :P
Confirmation bias and selective perception, and nothing more.
If it is so "ounce of sense" easy to argue that no one should pug queues, then how exactly are we supposed to revamp PVP again? It may take more than a few ounces of sense for you to get it, but premades of rigidly super optimized powergame builds aren't entry-level fun for newcomers.
What is the plan to get more people into PVP and to stay there? Or is there one?
Again this just sounds like "me me me send me more lambs to slaughter" without a viable business model to back it up or any incentive to keep those lambs volunteering.
I asked for you to step back for perception purposes, not to actually leave the thread.
Funny you ask for me by name and give a total pass to the guys that are doing the usual stable of personal attacks that you are so conveniently ignoring because they agree with you.
The KDF faction retains a micro playerbase because Cryptic/PWE refuse to invest.
The same is true of PvP development.
No reason to harsh on these threads man, nothing will ever be done by them to do anything with PvP.
If you had bothered to actually read people's arguments instead of spewing insults and accusations, you'd already know the answer to your question. Others have suggested a matchmaking system that separates these dreaded 'elite PvPers' you seem to loathe from the average player. Someone already CREATED one as an example of how it could be done.
Also, weren't you supposed to have left the thread already? Can't take your own advice, troll?
That may be part of it but it is not the whole.
KDF has been a small faction from the start, and started as pretty much PVP only. Many ships were added, many missions (yes yes not as many as Feds, I'm assuming I'm about to hear that) and ultimately, not everyone was interested in playing KDF. You might not believe this, but it is quite likely because people who think Star Trek and play a Star Trek game want more or less their own Enterprise, and kind of want to be like that Picard guy or maybe Kirk. Simply evening out content distribution and assuming an even amount of people will automatically jump ship to the other side is a bit unfounded, especially after years of precedent where the playerbase isn't likely to grow all that much even on a good season.
Saying your opinion is "true" doesn't make it so. It is possible, yes, but some games just aren't that great for PVP the way they currently are. This may well be one of them. Short of a drastic retooling of game mechanics that PVEers may utterly reject, the way powers can stack and stack and overstack in this game means that asymmetry is the norm, and that most PVP fights are won before they even begin. It's not sustainable, and short of cheap kicks for winners, it's not very fun.
I don't recall saying I'd leave the thread as much as stop paying attention to one particular poster. And I did have other things to do and came back after a while.
Funny that you complain about insults and accusations and a breath later call me a troll. Projection is pretty obvious here, but I doubt that will sink in.
WtH???????????
R.I.P
Ok that's not true. I "pug" elite stfs all the time and 90% of the time we get the optional. And you want to bring new players but you want them to be premades?
Really?
So I take it you didn't like my ideas for making pvp more equal since you don't even mention that. But take the chance and talk about another poster.
Then make an untrue claim about pugs. Also, if you are going to get new pvprs they will be pugs... What else would they be?
Please explain.
Another non-answer. I guess it beats more Atlas Shrugged pseudowisdom.
Face it. This thread's running out of steam. I might wander off again and you and your pals can wring your hands, but this thread's going nowhere.
I wonder if a idea from mario kart could be taken for PvP. One of the reasons that mario kart tends to be fun to play with family members is that even if you massively outclass one of your cousins, children, parents etc the game compensates. The worse you do the better the powerups you get in order to keep the game interesting.
Maybe the PvP should be done the same way. The worse you do the more of a buff you get when you respawn. Those with the best builds would still get the most points but anyone would be competitive before the end of the match. I mean even the worst builds would eventually win if you gave them 10x weapons, shields, energy etc of course they would have to die a LOT to get that far.
Since fighting opponents that are not a threat is not claimed to be not fun (although I have not seen evidence of this in game) this should make PvP a lot more fun. Since even if you win in the beginning eventually their ship would be competitive with yours no matter what tricks you have. Once they can kill you then you would reach a kind of parity.
Actually it was a question. specifically, what the hell? As in what the hell are you blathering about now?
I know those other posters, the KDF is a small fanbase. (Hi guys)
Awesomness of being a selfish jerk?? By not agreeing imposed altruism is true altruism??
Who said anything about your ball?
I was merely puzzled by another of your attacking posts.
R.I.P