I still recall the Valdore console nerf, and I'm still not happy about it, or the GDF nerf.
AS somebody put it in before, PVP and PVE may need a separate set of skills, and a ranking ladder that puts people of roughly the same skills in the same pvp group. Curbstomps are only fun for half of the pvpers.
And yes, balancing items between pvp and pve is a problem, that's why they should be separate, or why the items would have separate effects on npcs and players. Borg tactical cubes and players got a different health pool.
Like how that Ice pulsewave got its effects nerfed against Playery, but not NPCs. That seems like a good idea.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
PvPers claim they are the misunderstood, underappreciated, red-headed stepchild that only have the good of the game in mind.
To anybody that has answered to my post or similar ones:
You are correct, not all PvPers are a**holes but quite frankly I neither have the time nor the patience to look for the two or three ugly ducklings in a house full of rabid raccoons.
And no... more PvP will not make this game more attractive to others... and No it's not that "most Players" are just Closet-PvPers that don't like the current system but would spring in action if it got fixed...
These are baseless assumptions, skewed by your own wishes and probably copious amounts of alcohol.
Some if not most PvEers here are just apathetic about it and just don't want precious resources to be spent on it and No... I've seen the Argument about it... just because it appears to not produce "Starfleet Regulation"-Content you can't just take these resources and spent them on something even worse... it doesn't work that way... Resources are not infinite... splitting it up just means BOTH operations will suffer.
No More... No less!
Any notion of having new Hybrid Zones are quite frankly complete BS...
It will NOT produce a more active PvP Scene and we all know that the PvP Community won't stop at "there are some PvE Rewards hidden there that you can also get somewhere else" and will demand deeper integration to force everyone wanting to see the new PvE Content to get involved in PvP despite their proclaimed aversion towards "Squishy Targets", which will be the only thing they will get in return to these endeavours.
And No... people will NOT simply "get better" at PvP to see this new content... they will either just stop playing or play the old content until these new Hybrid Zone are deserted due to lack of targets.
I'll start with an apology, in that I am sorry but I just skipped 3 or 4 pages, the flaming and one upmanship just put me off reading any more, so I am sorry to any of you who made a post containing a valid argument that I have missed.
Having read quite a bit though, my current thinking is that perhaps a compromise is in order? My thinking is, a 3rd PvP only faction that can't access PvE content. That way they'd have their own equipment, ships etc, all perfectly balanced for PvP. The Kazon perhaps, as they did like to fight amongst themselves in Voyager.. Before anybody points this out to me, I know full well that this will never ever happen. For one it'd just been one more group shouting out "We're been ignored, give us more!", not to mention that they'd cry out that they weren't a proper faction as they can't access PvE content and equipment etc etc. The best that we can perhaps hope for is that Cryptic double stat equipment, with 1 lot of stats active when in PvE and a different lot of stats active with in PvP, that way the PvE players can enjoy their equipment without the PvP crowd crying out for nerfs quite so loudly. Oh and just to give balance to this negativity towards PvP players, there would likely be just as many (perhaps even more ) from the PvE crowd calling foul and demanding that they get access to the new faction and it's equipment for PvE content. :rolleyes:
The thing is, forum posters will still rant and rave and get upset whatever is done in whatever form, as that's why they post. We all know that there exists a small minority of people who have far more fun arguing on game forums than they actually have playing the games.
As to the rest, it all comes down to person opinions, often shaped by personal experiences. Some people love bungee jumping, but that doesn't mean that everybody should have to do it. Some people hate bungee jumping, but that doesn't mean that nobody should do it. That's where the arguing in this thread has gone down the wrong road, in that the 2 sides of the argument are far too absolute. Between this, and the flaming and trolling so evident from BOTH sides of those arguing the issue, the thread has been rendered useless in my humble opinion. It has become far too difficult to actually find the sensible posts debating the question amongst all of the trolling, flaming and one upmanship (aka. forum wars/keyboard warrior posts). It's a shame, but c'est la vie I guess.
Oh, and also an apology for those who feel insulted by my earier statement recounting my experiences regarding finding that PvP content tends to attract a small but vocally rabid minority of gamers that I prefer to avoid as much as possible. Maybe I just don't get the same during PvE content as I spent time learning how to do it well before joining pugs for it? Or, more likely, it could just be that NPCs don't engage in so called trash talk (I've yet to hear a borg cube yell at me that I am using "hax" when I blow it up, or tell me to "uninstall you noob loser! I pwned you..." when I get blown up by one. I've done the same for PvP in the past however, learning how to play my role correctly etc, and still found myself on the receiving end of trolling, flaming and so called trash talk (NPCs certainly don't mock you after blowing you up for example...). If you don't feel that you are a part of this rabid minority, then truly you don't need to feel insulted, as I am quite sure you are probably not one of them.
Some call it trash talk, I call it rude, obnoxious and distinctly anti-social. THAT is the core of why I dislike PvP (getting killed just teaches me to try harder, where been mocked just teaches me that my oponent, or even team member, is an idiot).
Hopefully that has clarified where I am coming from, and helps to cut through all of the retorts of "there are just as many rude people playing the PvE content". Sure there are, but in PvE it's considered to be unacceptable behaviour, where in PvP it's considered to be the norm.
A slight attempt at balancing pvp would be restrict all consoles un-useable, same for doff's. This would create weapon damage based on captain skills/wp management/boff skills/mk# weapon alone. Also some of the reasons for people not being interested in pvp are, not interesting to them, always to busy with grinding, rewards not worth it to them, bad first time experience, to challenging.....the list can go on. Only the dedicated pvp's are the ones that keep it in use, and the numbers are not very big.
I still don't understand the allure of PvE. As soon as I finish my Omega and Romulan rep trees, the only thing i'm gonna be running STF's for is fleet marks. Killing defenseless NPC's has no honor.
People say many combat-related nerfs is always the 'evil PvPers' getting it nerfed. Yet when the nerf or fix is something non-combat, folks are left without their scapegoat. As an old example, it certainly wasn't PvPers who whined that 'the Foundry clickie' missions were 'OP and need to be nerfed'. It was an exploit, pure and simple, not something the devs intended.
Really?? Something non-combat wich just recently got nerfed, for allmost 2 seassons no one complain about it, then YOU complained, and a few of ur PvP friends along with you, about the 25 mil expertise holding project and its now nerfed And it was a good oportunity for fleet credits, not an exploit...
Question, and I hope people answer it honestly:
How many of you actually use this new stuff that is released? I don't care in what. PvE, PvP, showing in ESD, whatever. Do you USE it? For sake of being recent, think about stuff outta the Voth lockbox.
I'm sure a lot of folks will answer yes if they think only about say, ships. Both the Voth ships are rather nice, in particular, I myself am thinking about getting the Voth Palisade for one of my sci toons.
What about the other stuff? Maybe the new console? I think it's rather nice. Does good damage in a more unique way, has fairly high bleed on it, so it's at least gonna do SOMETHING to an enemy with it's shields up. No real issues with it IMO.
Or how about the new handful of DOFFs they released? The new Explosives Expert on the ground is fun for sci toons.
Maybe the new traits? In this case, the ground ones over the space ones. Space ones, two of them only add HoTs, while the tac one is better. The ground ones each add unique changes to ground captain powers, which is interesting.
I'm probably missing something. But my question stands: Do people actually use this stuff?
Of course ppl use new stuff. Exemple: me and allmost every friends and fleeties are using the new orbital devastation, sensor doff for tacs or explosive doff for sci. Probably the only less used is the doff for enginers i think. I am even using on a toon the new voth costume along with a voth AP split beam rifle and voth lobi cannon since they match in colour ans style.
And to the OP, i doubt ppl fear of a PvP update, they just dont care about one or dont what one with a more PvPvE focus. Two things ppl dont realize about STO and its low KDf and PvP population, and actually the devs realized it and i am glad about this.
First, that unlike other MMOs, this game is played alot by Star Trek fans, not gamers. For alot of them this is actually their first MMO they play. So they want to play fed captains and fight borgs, not some kdf player named papasmurf with an alien toon that looks like a half twisted monkey wich commands a bugship named BadName cat (just an example)
Second, and this is PvP more related, this been a casual game, played by fans, not by gamers, and Star Trek been since '70, lots of players got jobs, certain age etc., mature ppl mostly. So when they come home and play STO, they cant or dont want to give 100% attention to the game as the PvP component demands. Or some have diferent distractions, like I've met here a few moms or couple that also watch their kids while they play, so ofc they arent paying full atention to the monitor since their kids come first.
Funny, I am star trek fan who likes to play Klingons in Klingon ships using klingon toons because thats what I as a fan enjoy about the IP, just like many other Klingon fans of the IP.
Thanks for devalueing my fandom Petaq because of your egoism.
I still recall the Valdore console nerf, and I'm still not happy about it, or the GDF nerf.
AS somebody put it in before, PVP and PVE may need a separate set of skills, and a ranking ladder that puts people of roughly the same skills in the same pvp group. Curbstomps are only fun for half of the pvpers.
And yes, balancing items between pvp and pve is a problem, that's why they should be separate, or why the items would have separate effects on npcs and players. Borg tactical cubes and players got a different health pool.
Like how that Ice pulsewave got its effects nerfed against Playery, but not NPCs. That seems like a good idea.
The valdore console may have been nerfed, but it is still extremely effective. My scim uses it and gets over 600,000 in shield healing during say a typical Infected elite run. (this is more than 10 times the healing of my TSS1 or EPTS1 on the same char over the duration)
Its all based on how much damage youre putting out, and how many shots youre firing really. The higher your chances to proc (and the larger the hits are that the heal amount is based off) the more effective it is.
This is why in the old version is was so devastating in PvP, a fast alpha striker could literally make themselves immortal with it. (even when they were only autofiring turrets on the end of the pass as they were turning around for volley two)
In PvE its still possible for an otherwise glassy ship like a fully offensive specced scim, to be tanky as all hell.
So yeah it was nerfed, but it wasnt destroyed.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I suspect many fear losing the majority status, that they're so found of flaunting. In that sense, it's simple tribalistic behavior. Irrational and hostile.
It's said that civilizations can be judged by their treatment of minorities.
I thought it worth repeating, as I find posts in this thread becoming increasingly irrational and hostile.
Where's the money in it for Cryptic/PWE to revamp PvP?
In my pocket. That's where it will stay, as I wouldn't pay to play this game in its current state. Some open, persistent, PvEvP zones would help in encouraging me to spend some money on this game.
Majority vs minority
The majority is the driving force. They collectively play more hours then the minority. Some of the majority will play the minority content...but not enough to warrant a full season.
Also. The majority of the majority think that the NPCs are hard...how do you think they'll do against a player?
Sto is a business...catering to the majority is how they make the best margins
Because NPCs don't go crying to the moderators and developers reporting you for massively smashing your face to the ground, because NPCs don't go gloating when they win or crying when they loose, or call you a cheater because you play better than they do.
That was easy.:eek:
Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
I find it amusing that instead of using this thread to ask questions of like what if the disabled consoles, normalized everybody to mk XII purples, or something along those lines. It just became that pvers are whiners and fear pvp. Or that pvers don't like challenge. Or other insults.
You left out "...delivered by the people most loudly insisting PvPers aren't elitist, condescending tools."
Someone made a "what keeps you from wanting to PvP" thread a while back, and my answer to it then still stands now: "What keeps me from having any desire to PvP is the most visible, vocal people who PvP."
And now we've got a thread with multiple people basically saying "Look, most PvPers are okay, because they don't act like me." :rolleyes:
I would like to say that I do not PvP any longer. I do not find it fun nor do I consider it particularly challenging. I have found that it generally runs with the many of the same basic formulas that I see in PvE (just with more abilities to contend with). If I win, fine, if not, life goes on.
PvP being what it is, brings out the worst in people, much more than PvE. People tend to cheat/use exploits more in competitive play than in solo, in my opinion, thanks to the "I win - You Lose" dynamic in vs play. People do not like to lose. Face it...losing sucks so the temptation to use any means to win becomes much greater. Also factor in the desire for people to want to be seen as elevated over others and be praised or rewarded. This is not just aimed at PvP in STO in particular, but at any sort of human competition.
It encourages pointless pissing contests and trash talking over what...?
Macros and keybinds abound. What is fun about fighting with automated ships or fighting against them, how is it different from fighting NPCs? NPCs don't rage?
This is why I do not bother with PvP these days (the exception being with fleetmates).
However, I do think that there needs to be some changes or new PvP content added. I think that there are more people who do PvP whether causally or competitively than people here are giving credit for. To not support a game feature is stupid. Just because I do not use a game feature does not mean that it should be denied to others who enjoy it nor should it be neglected.
The things that I think would be beneficial (from past experiences, and from listening to people who DO PvP):
1) New maps first and foremost. This would be the simplest thing, as you could take and reuse some PvE maps. This mainly applies to deathmatch type of matches, since there would be no real need for much modification outside of adding in spawn points.
2) More PVPVE style maps ala kerrat/otha, with differing objectives. Seriously...these would be a good thing. I still don't understand why people get upset when they get whacked on these maps. Maybe they need a >>WARNING PVP MAP<< label? If people don't want to risk getting blown up repeatedly by ill intentioned players, then nothing is forcing them to enter. Any possible gains from the PVE content of these zones can be gained elsewhere. You go here to explode random people.
3) Queued PVPVE challange matches with a PVE objective that has the teams fighting over said objective (available only through the PvP queue, and not a private challenge to avoid possible exploitation.) The Voth would be good for this type of scenario. I would think that having a Mortarsaurus Rex or swarmers wander into/suddenly appear in a shootout between the two teams would make for an interesting dynamic. For a space scenario, perhaps having to destroy or disable and capture a Voth Dreadnaught that is escorted by a fleet of battleships. Such maps would also award the appropriate type of marks for the objective target with bonus marks or neural processors/implants for the victor.
You could change it to an experimental Tal Shiar ship for romulan marks or an assimilated ship for the Borg.
4) Have certain maps be within a nebula or other anomalies, with an effect that is randomly generated at the beginning of the match. Such effects could include: ships having lowered sensor range, full impulse speed disabled, cloaks disabled, a minor pervasive damage effect, shields being disabled or reduced, a strong energy drain, exploding gas clouds, etc.
5) New match types(both space and ground): Team King of the Hill, one with team bases where the goal is to destroy the opposing team's base, capture the flag, maybe some sort of team race with objectives (deathmatch style naturally)
6) I do not think that having different gear for PvE/PVP is a good idea. This makes it more likely that something will break with new gear types. This would make it problematical for people who want to queue for PvP while doing PvE. Also it would be detrimental for PvPVE maps where you have both types of targets. Having certain weapon effects have reduced effect against players is fine. (like the voth weapons). Also having special super gear pvp rewards that outstrip what is already in the game is also not a good idea.
7) Rankings/Ratings: Winning queued matches (not private or PvPvE maps like Kerrat) gives you a rating/ranking score for winning a match. A gear score/reputation rank type of ranking or scoring would help alleviate some of the mismatching of seasoned PvPers vs newer players. Having a sliding scoring system to compensate for any mismatch would be useful such as having a higher ranked player getting a lower score for defeating low ranked players than say a player of equivalent rank.
As for Zone Control, after having seen/experienced what happens first hand with a large faction imbalance makes me very suspicious of the mechanic. There is too much potential for abuse/exploitation that, to me, would make it impractical. Though that doesn't mean it would be impossible to balance and manage. I just think that the resources it would take to implement such a mechanic would be better used elsewhere.
I guess cause when it comes down to it, the very definition of pvp is player vs player.. I don't understand why anything would need to be put into that.. as long as a player can fight a player (which can happen right now as the game is) I guess pvp is satisfied.. I understand a new map would be nice.. but honestly, this game already has a pretty decent (not the best but decent) pvp set up..
I can honestly say, that in all the games I have played, there has never been a huge focus on pvp and revamping it through the course of the game..
another point would be that they could make new pvp maps, but the pvp community would most likely just complain about it anyways...
and my last point is the same as many others.. the development time would be better spent furthering the story line and making the majority happy..
The one suggestion I've seen with any merit is breaking up teams for the queue. You can't have "single player" and "team" queues separately, because there wouldn't be enough players to get a match going. But if you broke up "premades" and forced everyone into random teams, it would do much to make PvP less of a cheese-and-spam fest.
And if you disagree, I hereby accuse you of beeing a cheesy spammer. :P
However, I do think that there needs to be some changes or new PvP content added. I think that there are more people who do PvP whether causally or competitively than people here are giving credit for.
Not really.
If there are more than many of us are giving credit for, why are PvPers constantly bleating on about the lack of players running PvP content? One of the concerns illustrated in this very thread by PvPers, is that PvP queues tend to take ages, and that PvPers want more PvPvE maps with carrot-on-stick incentives for PvE players to enter, only further justifies the fact that there aren't enough people engaging in it.
Furthermore, you only need to skim through this and a couple of other recent threads, to get a fairly good impression of just how many players want nothing to do with PvP, compared to those that do.
To not support a game feature is stupid. Just because I do not use a game feature does not mean that it should be denied to others who enjoy it nor should it be neglected.
It makes perfect financial sense not to waste time, money and resources on a facet of gameplay that will never attract enough paying players to recuperate the expenditure, let alone turn a profit.
To give you an idea, look HERE for the thoughts of one of the Rift developers on PvP earlier this year. It's worth noting that prior to closed beta (which my PvP guild was a part of), Rift was being touted as a new haven for members of the MMO PVP community.
PvP doesn't pay - the host of failed and currently failing PvP-centric MMOs provides stark testament to that fact. Heck, the host of MMOs that originally touted both PvE & PvP in more or less equal measure, that have ended up brushing PvP aside and concentrating almost purely on PvE, is just as damning. The only sort-of exception is GW2, but even there the developers are putting more time and effort into PvE content than PvP, and their hybrid financial model generates revenue from digital and boxed game sales, something Cryptic doesn't have the luxury of.
PvP doesn't pay - the host of failed and currently failing PvP-centric MMOs provides stark testament to that fact.
Not sure where you find posts in this thread suggesting that STO become PvP-centric.
Heck, the host of MMOs that originally touted both PvE & PvP in more or less equal measure, that have ended up brushing PvP aside and concentrating almost purely on PvE, is just as damning.
That's understandable. Both the PvE and PvP player benefit from the development of the environment and the story.
The only sort-of exception is GW2, but even there the developers are putting more time and effort into PvE content than PvP, and their hybrid financial model generates revenue from digital and boxed game sales, something Cryptic doesn't have the luxury of.
Still not seeing how WoW and Eve are not being considered, in that I'm not aware of either of them floundering or brushing aside their PvP.
As for revenue generation... appealing to as broad a demographic as possible is always good business.
It makes perfect financial sense not to waste time, money and resources on a facet of gameplay that will never attract enough paying players to recuperate the expenditure, let alone turn a profit.
There is a major flaw in this assessment of what is "wasting time"
Historically PvP players make up the most hardcore and likely to purchase any benefit they can obtain in battle. Id dare say the average PvPer in this game spends 10 times more on things than a casual PvEer ever will.
Small community perhaps, but the sheer amount of transactions of the few counterbalances their size.
A healthy PvP community is a cash cow, and it boggles my mind that Cryptic/PWE have yet to really tap into it.
You also need to stop cherry picking your data, the current fastest growing MMO in the entire world is actually the PvP centric and long standing EVE Online.
In fact it is the ONLY western MMO that is even growing at all, every other one is in decline, period. The whole industry has been in decline since 2008.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
PvP was never STO's strong point, never will be. simple fact is as long as people ask for other stuff pvp will never be accepted. however if you want pvp, there are a few other games on display and a future game called 'star citizen', which is like a spin off from freelancer but more advanced with many star systems and such. it could ruin EvE if it were released and the designers of star citizen hit all the sweet spots people want.
I heard the same words when STO was going F2P...so much hatred back then and still about new ways to IMPROVE the game. MONEY is the ultimate motivator and if DEVS see it's worth it they would enhance PvP playstyle. This is project that could be a GOLD mine for STO yet unexplore to tap into its true potential....:(
There is a major flaw in this assessment of what is "wasting time"
Historically PvP players make up the most hardcore and likely to purchase any benefit they can obtain in battle. Id dare say the average PvPer in this game spends 10 times more on things than a casual PvEer ever will.
Small community perhaps, but the sheer amount of transactions of the few counterbalances their size.
A healthy PvP community is a cash cow, and it boggles my mind that Cryptic/PWE have yet to really tap into it.
You also need to stop cherry picking your data, the current fastest growing MMO in the entire world is actually the PvP centric and long standing EVE Online.
Nothing more than assumptions based upon the "Elitist" Stereotype...
But for the sake of satisfying my inner Tellarite... While PvPer would buy any benefit they can... PvEers do the very same AND PvEer would be more likely to buy all these shiny Uniforms that have absolutely no gameplay value...
And ONE MMO does not constitute a trend or is enough to base any conclusions on...
Comments
AS somebody put it in before, PVP and PVE may need a separate set of skills, and a ranking ladder that puts people of roughly the same skills in the same pvp group. Curbstomps are only fun for half of the pvpers.
And yes, balancing items between pvp and pve is a problem, that's why they should be separate, or why the items would have separate effects on npcs and players. Borg tactical cubes and players got a different health pool.
Like how that Ice pulsewave got its effects nerfed against Playery, but not NPCs. That seems like a good idea.
What I've gathered so far of this thread:
PvPers claim they are the misunderstood, underappreciated, red-headed stepchild that only have the good of the game in mind.
To anybody that has answered to my post or similar ones:
You are correct, not all PvPers are a**holes but quite frankly I neither have the time nor the patience to look for the two or three ugly ducklings in a house full of rabid raccoons.
And no... more PvP will not make this game more attractive to others... and No it's not that "most Players" are just Closet-PvPers that don't like the current system but would spring in action if it got fixed...
These are baseless assumptions, skewed by your own wishes and probably copious amounts of alcohol.
Some if not most PvEers here are just apathetic about it and just don't want precious resources to be spent on it and No... I've seen the Argument about it... just because it appears to not produce "Starfleet Regulation"-Content you can't just take these resources and spent them on something even worse... it doesn't work that way... Resources are not infinite... splitting it up just means BOTH operations will suffer.
No More... No less!
Any notion of having new Hybrid Zones are quite frankly complete BS...
It will NOT produce a more active PvP Scene and we all know that the PvP Community won't stop at "there are some PvE Rewards hidden there that you can also get somewhere else" and will demand deeper integration to force everyone wanting to see the new PvE Content to get involved in PvP despite their proclaimed aversion towards "Squishy Targets", which will be the only thing they will get in return to these endeavours.
And No... people will NOT simply "get better" at PvP to see this new content... they will either just stop playing or play the old content until these new Hybrid Zone are deserted due to lack of targets.
Having read quite a bit though, my current thinking is that perhaps a compromise is in order? My thinking is, a 3rd PvP only faction that can't access PvE content. That way they'd have their own equipment, ships etc, all perfectly balanced for PvP. The Kazon perhaps, as they did like to fight amongst themselves in Voyager..
The thing is, forum posters will still rant and rave and get upset whatever is done in whatever form, as that's why they post. We all know that there exists a small minority of people who have far more fun arguing on game forums than they actually have playing the games.
As to the rest, it all comes down to person opinions, often shaped by personal experiences. Some people love bungee jumping, but that doesn't mean that everybody should have to do it. Some people hate bungee jumping, but that doesn't mean that nobody should do it. That's where the arguing in this thread has gone down the wrong road, in that the 2 sides of the argument are far too absolute. Between this, and the flaming and trolling so evident from BOTH sides of those arguing the issue, the thread has been rendered useless in my humble opinion. It has become far too difficult to actually find the sensible posts debating the question amongst all of the trolling, flaming and one upmanship (aka. forum wars/keyboard warrior posts). It's a shame, but c'est la vie I guess.
Oh, and also an apology for those who feel insulted by my earier statement recounting my experiences regarding finding that PvP content tends to attract a small but vocally rabid minority of gamers that I prefer to avoid as much as possible. Maybe I just don't get the same during PvE content as I spent time learning how to do it well before joining pugs for it? Or, more likely, it could just be that NPCs don't engage in so called trash talk (I've yet to hear a borg cube yell at me that I am using "hax" when I blow it up, or tell me to "uninstall you noob loser! I pwned you..." when I get blown up by one. I've done the same for PvP in the past however, learning how to play my role correctly etc, and still found myself on the receiving end of trolling, flaming and so called trash talk (NPCs certainly don't mock you after blowing you up for example...). If you don't feel that you are a part of this rabid minority, then truly you don't need to feel insulted, as I am quite sure you are probably not one of them.
Some call it trash talk, I call it rude, obnoxious and distinctly anti-social. THAT is the core of why I dislike PvP (getting killed just teaches me to try harder, where been mocked just teaches me that my oponent, or even team member, is an idiot).
Hopefully that has clarified where I am coming from, and helps to cut through all of the retorts of "there are just as many rude people playing the PvE content". Sure there are, but in PvE it's considered to be unacceptable behaviour, where in PvP it's considered to be the norm.
Regards
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I have yet to notice any shortage of A**holes on either side of the debate. They are the one constant that runs through both parties.
R.I.P
Really?? Something non-combat wich just recently got nerfed, for allmost 2 seassons no one complain about it, then YOU complained, and a few of ur PvP friends along with you, about the 25 mil expertise holding project and its now nerfed
Of course ppl use new stuff. Exemple: me and allmost every friends and fleeties are using the new orbital devastation, sensor doff for tacs or explosive doff for sci. Probably the only less used is the doff for enginers i think. I am even using on a toon the new voth costume along with a voth AP split beam rifle and voth lobi cannon since they match in colour ans style.
And to the OP, i doubt ppl fear of a PvP update, they just dont care about one or dont what one with a more PvPvE focus. Two things ppl dont realize about STO and its low KDf and PvP population, and actually the devs realized it and i am glad about this.
First, that unlike other MMOs, this game is played alot by Star Trek fans, not gamers. For alot of them this is actually their first MMO they play. So they want to play fed captains and fight borgs, not some kdf player named papasmurf with an alien toon that looks like a half twisted monkey wich commands a bugship named BadName cat (just an example)
Second, and this is PvP more related, this been a casual game, played by fans, not by gamers, and Star Trek been since '70, lots of players got jobs, certain age etc., mature ppl mostly. So when they come home and play STO, they cant or dont want to give 100% attention to the game as the PvP component demands. Or some have diferent distractions, like I've met here a few moms or couple that also watch their kids while they play, so ofc they arent paying full atention to the monitor since their kids come first.
Sry for the long post.
Thanks for devalueing my fandom Petaq because of your egoism.
R.I.P
As opposed to PvP heroes spamming gravity well + warp plasma + tractor mines + that effing cloud of doom console the entire match. Please. :rolleyes:
The valdore console may have been nerfed, but it is still extremely effective. My scim uses it and gets over 600,000 in shield healing during say a typical Infected elite run. (this is more than 10 times the healing of my TSS1 or EPTS1 on the same char over the duration)
Its all based on how much damage youre putting out, and how many shots youre firing really. The higher your chances to proc (and the larger the hits are that the heal amount is based off) the more effective it is.
This is why in the old version is was so devastating in PvP, a fast alpha striker could literally make themselves immortal with it. (even when they were only autofiring turrets on the end of the pass as they were turning around for volley two)
In PvE its still possible for an otherwise glassy ship like a fully offensive specced scim, to be tanky as all hell.
So yeah it was nerfed, but it wasnt destroyed.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I thought it worth repeating, as I find posts in this thread becoming increasingly irrational and hostile.
In my pocket. That's where it will stay, as I wouldn't pay to play this game in its current state. Some open, persistent, PvEvP zones would help in encouraging me to spend some money on this game.
Because NPCs don't go crying to the moderators and developers reporting you for massively smashing your face to the ground, because NPCs don't go gloating when they win or crying when they loose, or call you a cheater because you play better than they do.
That was easy.:eek:
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
You left out "...delivered by the people most loudly insisting PvPers aren't elitist, condescending tools."
Someone made a "what keeps you from wanting to PvP" thread a while back, and my answer to it then still stands now: "What keeps me from having any desire to PvP is the most visible, vocal people who PvP."
And now we've got a thread with multiple people basically saying "Look, most PvPers are okay, because they don't act like me." :rolleyes:
PvP being what it is, brings out the worst in people, much more than PvE. People tend to cheat/use exploits more in competitive play than in solo, in my opinion, thanks to the "I win - You Lose" dynamic in vs play. People do not like to lose. Face it...losing sucks so the temptation to use any means to win becomes much greater. Also factor in the desire for people to want to be seen as elevated over others and be praised or rewarded. This is not just aimed at PvP in STO in particular, but at any sort of human competition.
It encourages pointless pissing contests and trash talking over what...?
Macros and keybinds abound. What is fun about fighting with automated ships or fighting against them, how is it different from fighting NPCs? NPCs don't rage?
This is why I do not bother with PvP these days (the exception being with fleetmates).
However, I do think that there needs to be some changes or new PvP content added. I think that there are more people who do PvP whether causally or competitively than people here are giving credit for. To not support a game feature is stupid. Just because I do not use a game feature does not mean that it should be denied to others who enjoy it nor should it be neglected.
The things that I think would be beneficial (from past experiences, and from listening to people who DO PvP):
1) New maps first and foremost. This would be the simplest thing, as you could take and reuse some PvE maps. This mainly applies to deathmatch type of matches, since there would be no real need for much modification outside of adding in spawn points.
2) More PVPVE style maps ala kerrat/otha, with differing objectives. Seriously...these would be a good thing. I still don't understand why people get upset when they get whacked on these maps. Maybe they need a >>WARNING PVP MAP<< label? If people don't want to risk getting blown up repeatedly by ill intentioned players, then nothing is forcing them to enter. Any possible gains from the PVE content of these zones can be gained elsewhere. You go here to explode random people.
3) Queued PVPVE challange matches with a PVE objective that has the teams fighting over said objective (available only through the PvP queue, and not a private challenge to avoid possible exploitation.) The Voth would be good for this type of scenario. I would think that having a Mortarsaurus Rex or swarmers wander into/suddenly appear in a shootout between the two teams would make for an interesting dynamic. For a space scenario, perhaps having to destroy or disable and capture a Voth Dreadnaught that is escorted by a fleet of battleships. Such maps would also award the appropriate type of marks for the objective target with bonus marks or neural processors/implants for the victor.
You could change it to an experimental Tal Shiar ship for romulan marks or an assimilated ship for the Borg.
4) Have certain maps be within a nebula or other anomalies, with an effect that is randomly generated at the beginning of the match. Such effects could include: ships having lowered sensor range, full impulse speed disabled, cloaks disabled, a minor pervasive damage effect, shields being disabled or reduced, a strong energy drain, exploding gas clouds, etc.
5) New match types(both space and ground): Team King of the Hill, one with team bases where the goal is to destroy the opposing team's base, capture the flag, maybe some sort of team race with objectives (deathmatch style naturally)
6) I do not think that having different gear for PvE/PVP is a good idea. This makes it more likely that something will break with new gear types. This would make it problematical for people who want to queue for PvP while doing PvE. Also it would be detrimental for PvPVE maps where you have both types of targets. Having certain weapon effects have reduced effect against players is fine. (like the voth weapons). Also having special super gear pvp rewards that outstrip what is already in the game is also not a good idea.
7) Rankings/Ratings: Winning queued matches (not private or PvPvE maps like Kerrat) gives you a rating/ranking score for winning a match. A gear score/reputation rank type of ranking or scoring would help alleviate some of the mismatching of seasoned PvPers vs newer players. Having a sliding scoring system to compensate for any mismatch would be useful such as having a higher ranked player getting a lower score for defeating low ranked players than say a player of equivalent rank.
As for Zone Control, after having seen/experienced what happens first hand with a large faction imbalance makes me very suspicious of the mechanic. There is too much potential for abuse/exploitation that, to me, would make it impractical. Though that doesn't mean it would be impossible to balance and manage. I just think that the resources it would take to implement such a mechanic would be better used elsewhere.
Apologies for the Great Wall of Text.
___
I'm not seeing those posts. Could you point them out to me, please?
Look most PvPers are okay people, just watch out for the ones that are anything like me.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
No apologies necessary, as far as I'm concerned. I thought it was a great post.
I don't know how I missed this?
Because it didnt exist yet.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I can honestly say, that in all the games I have played, there has never been a huge focus on pvp and revamping it through the course of the game..
another point would be that they could make new pvp maps, but the pvp community would most likely just complain about it anyways...
and my last point is the same as many others.. the development time would be better spent furthering the story line and making the majority happy..
And if you disagree, I hereby accuse you of beeing a cheesy spammer. :P
Not really.
If there are more than many of us are giving credit for, why are PvPers constantly bleating on about the lack of players running PvP content? One of the concerns illustrated in this very thread by PvPers, is that PvP queues tend to take ages, and that PvPers want more PvPvE maps with carrot-on-stick incentives for PvE players to enter, only further justifies the fact that there aren't enough people engaging in it.
Furthermore, you only need to skim through this and a couple of other recent threads, to get a fairly good impression of just how many players want nothing to do with PvP, compared to those that do.
It makes perfect financial sense not to waste time, money and resources on a facet of gameplay that will never attract enough paying players to recuperate the expenditure, let alone turn a profit.
To give you an idea, look HERE for the thoughts of one of the Rift developers on PvP earlier this year. It's worth noting that prior to closed beta (which my PvP guild was a part of), Rift was being touted as a new haven for members of the MMO PVP community.
PvP doesn't pay - the host of failed and currently failing PvP-centric MMOs provides stark testament to that fact. Heck, the host of MMOs that originally touted both PvE & PvP in more or less equal measure, that have ended up brushing PvP aside and concentrating almost purely on PvE, is just as damning. The only sort-of exception is GW2, but even there the developers are putting more time and effort into PvE content than PvP, and their hybrid financial model generates revenue from digital and boxed game sales, something Cryptic doesn't have the luxury of.
Not sure where you find posts in this thread suggesting that STO become PvP-centric.
That's understandable. Both the PvE and PvP player benefit from the development of the environment and the story.
Still not seeing how WoW and Eve are not being considered, in that I'm not aware of either of them floundering or brushing aside their PvP.
As for revenue generation... appealing to as broad a demographic as possible is always good business.
There is a major flaw in this assessment of what is "wasting time"
Historically PvP players make up the most hardcore and likely to purchase any benefit they can obtain in battle. Id dare say the average PvPer in this game spends 10 times more on things than a casual PvEer ever will.
Small community perhaps, but the sheer amount of transactions of the few counterbalances their size.
A healthy PvP community is a cash cow, and it boggles my mind that Cryptic/PWE have yet to really tap into it.
You also need to stop cherry picking your data, the current fastest growing MMO in the entire world is actually the PvP centric and long standing EVE Online.
In fact it is the ONLY western MMO that is even growing at all, every other one is in decline, period. The whole industry has been in decline since 2008.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I heard the same words when STO was going F2P...so much hatred back then and still about new ways to IMPROVE the game. MONEY is the ultimate motivator and if DEVS see it's worth it they would enhance PvP playstyle. This is project that could be a GOLD mine for STO yet unexplore to tap into its true potential....:(
Nothing more than assumptions based upon the "Elitist" Stereotype...
But for the sake of satisfying my inner Tellarite... While PvPer would buy any benefit they can... PvEers do the very same AND PvEer would be more likely to buy all these shiny Uniforms that have absolutely no gameplay value...
And ONE MMO does not constitute a trend or is enough to base any conclusions on...