I had fun on this last night. 2 players rage'd within the first two minutes because they got annihilated by the turret defenses, one other had a mashed up ship, which it became pretty obvious it was his first time, and another escort that was... average?.
Anyhoos, fair to say i carried the two of them - not terribly hard in a scimitar - but we saved all 9 ships and all got out alive. Took a little longer than usual, though it was very enjoyable.
Peacekeeper High Command
Scorpius - Zelbinion Mk II
So I ran through the Breach for the first time tonight, after taking a break from STO for a few months. The new content looked kind cool, if a little...much, I guess. I mean, Dinosaurs in Star Trek and all that. But then I ran the Breach. And I am disgusted.
To put it bluntly, it reminded me of the infamous 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center. I felt like a member of Al-kaida as I flew down the center trough of the city ship, shooting at "hard points" that looked suspiciously like buildings. They weren't shooting back at all, and for all I know I was destroying Voth schools, daycares, or office buildings. I started having flashbacks to the streets of New York on the aforementioned day, and it made me queasy.
Then, I come to find out that you end up destroying this vessel. This is not a small ship. It is several hundred miles long. There is potential room in there for millions of sentients. And you just take out their power and fly away, leaving them to die a fiery death as they smash into the Dyson Sphere Shell.
So even ignoring the fact that the Federation is the one doing this, willingly, with no attempts at an alternative (I guess the Klingons too, but I'd expect it from those filthy warmongers. They'd be too weak to do it though) Cryptic is also alienating players directly with the fallout of their forced actions.
Thanks for making me feel like Osama Bin Laden, guys. Really does wonders for my conscience. Now I'm left to wonder at what point did Cryptic became a recruiting ground for al kaida terrorists. Kid's play this game, after all, and we know how fanatics love to breed child soldiers.
So I ran through the Breach for the first time tonight, after taking a break from STO for a few months. The new content looked kind cool, if a little...much, I guess. I mean, Dinosaurs in Star Trek and all that. But then I ran the Breach. And I am disgusted.
To put it bluntly, it reminded me of the infamous 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center. I felt like a member of Al-kaida as I flew down the center trough of the city ship, shooting at "hard points" that looked suspiciously like buildings. They weren't shooting back at all, and for all I know I was destroying Voth schools, daycares, or office buildings. I started having flashbacks to the streets of New York on the aforementioned day, and it made me queasy.
Then, I come to find out that you end up destroying this vessel. This is not a small ship. It is several hundred miles long. There is potential room in there for millions of sentients. And you just take out their power and fly away, leaving them to die a fiery death as they smash into the Dyson Sphere Shell.
So even ignoring the fact that the Federation is the one doing this, willingly, with no attempts at an alternative (I guess the Klingons too, but I'd expect it from those filthy warmongers. They'd be too weak to do it though) Cryptic is also alienating players directly with the fallout of their forced actions.
Thanks for making me feel like Osama Bin Laden, guys. Really does wonders for my conscience. Now I'm left to wonder at what point did Cryptic became a recruiting ground for al kaida terrorists. Kid's play this game, after all, and we know how fanatics love to breed child soldiers.
Um...what?!?!
Its more of a Death-Star trench run from Star Wars, or the scene from Independence Day (big big ship, nuke, and BOOM) than what you just described.
How you got the 9/11 comparison is beyond me...
I am not a Mod. I am just a player. You have been informed :cool:
Wow, are you kidding me?? What the hell is all this about??? It seems that you got it wrong or maybe trolling. The voth forthress ship doesnt get destroyed. Look after you escaped, the reactor blows up but the ship doesnt. Its disabled.
This is just an equivalent of a surgical strike mission, or like the ground delta force missions, where a team of 4 go in beind enemy lines, complete their mission and get out as fast as possible.
First the ship is not a city ship, its a huge militarry fortress ship, loaded with troops, ships, repairing facilities and maybe even ship factories.
I think the devs had this in mind: the goal is to get in, destroy its power source to cripple their ship crafting/repairing facilities (thus giving the dyson command joint forces some breathing room or even posibility to advance a bit) and get out. But becouse the voth are soo advanced, it seems their power souce is a safe one, maybe a subspace energy tap or something and it doesnt destroy the ship. And also its safe to assume that there is some sort of back up generators to sustain the ship basic functions till the ship's main power source its repaired/rebuilt. So there the repetability of the mission comes in, since you cripple their ship, voth repairs it, then you do it again and so on.
I dont get all this atrocity thing references. This is one of the best missions Cryptic did so far.
The comparison to a real world horror like 9/11 are way overboard. However, I agree with you that it doesn't feel like Star Trek anymore and Season 8 makes it even worse. If you go watch TNG or Early DS9 you will be shocked at how differently the feds act to the feds in this game. I mean Starfleet captains are willing to risk letting their ships be destroyed just for the opportunity for a peaceful resolution.
Here we have Starfleet Ships destroying unarmed escape shuttles .... *shock* in the spire. It doesn't matter if the ship you are attacking is destroyed or not in the Breech. The sheer amount of violence and lack of respect for life is antithetical to the very concept of the Federation.
Also don't forget about T'Rex with lasers on their head ... Major Fail on Cryptic's part.
So I ran through the Breach for the first time tonight, after taking a break from STO for a few months. The new content looked kind cool, if a little...much, I guess. I mean, Dinosaurs in Star Trek and all that. But then I ran the Breach. And I am disgusted.
To put it bluntly, it reminded me of the infamous 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center. I felt like a member of Al-kaida as I flew down the center trough of the city ship, shooting at "hard points" that looked suspiciously like buildings. They weren't shooting back at all, and for all I know I was destroying Voth schools, daycares, or office buildings. I started having flashbacks to the streets of New York on the aforementioned day, and it made me queasy.
Then, I come to find out that you end up destroying this vessel. This is not a small ship. It is several hundred miles long. There is potential room in there for millions of sentients. And you just take out their power and fly away, leaving them to die a fiery death as they smash into the Dyson Sphere Shell.
So even ignoring the fact that the Federation is the one doing this, willingly, with no attempts at an alternative (I guess the Klingons too, but I'd expect it from those filthy warmongers. They'd be too weak to do it though) Cryptic is also alienating players directly with the fallout of their forced actions.
Thanks for making me feel like Osama Bin Laden, guys. Really does wonders for my conscience. Now I'm left to wonder at what point did Cryptic became a recruiting ground for al kaida terrorists. Kid's play this game, after all, and we know how fanatics love to breed child soldiers.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Wow, are you kidding me?? What the hell is all this about??? It seems that you got it wrong or maybe trolling. The voth forthress ship doesnt get destroyed. Look after you escaped, the reactor blows up but the ship doesnt. Its disabled.
This is just an equivalent of a surgical strike mission, or like the ground delta force missions, where a team of 4 go in beind enemy lines, complete their mission and get out as fast as possible.
First the ship is not a city ship, its a huge militarry fortress ship, loaded with troops, ships, repairing facilities and maybe even ship factories.
I think the devs had this in mind: the goal is to get in, destroy its power source to cripple their ship crafting/repairing facilities (thus giving the dyson command joint forces some breathing room or even posibility to advance a bit) and get out. But becouse the voth are soo advanced, it seems their power souce is a safe one, maybe a subspace energy tap or something and it doesnt destroy the ship. And also its safe to assume that there is some sort of back up generators to sustain the ship basic functions till the ship's main power source its repaired/rebuilt. So there the repetability of the mission comes in, since you cripple their ship, voth repairs it, then you do it again and so on.
I dont get all this atrocity thing references. This is one of the best missions Cryptic did so far.
This^
It's a flying military base. THIS is the location that the Voth ground troops in the ground warzone are coming from. And yeah, I've done Breach several times and at no point does the Fortress ship explode....
On another note, now that they added the breach to the bonus mark events was sure hoping for more of a bonus but only got 83 marks after a perfect run as opposed too, say, 76 marks during non-event times. Geez, some bonus!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
#It'sJustaGameAndAFreeOneAtThat!
Come Visit the 44th Fleet
It's a flying military base. THIS is the location that the Voth ground troops in the ground warzone are coming from. And yeah, I've done Breach several times and at no point does the Fortress ship explode....
The ship doesn't explode properly because the ship is a level, not an object. The engine just doesn't support that. Any player ship inside the hull is destroyed in the blast though so you can be assured all the civilians and children aboard are most certainly dead.
Also remember we are dealing with a theocracy that seems to control just about every aspect of their society that we have seen. There may not even be civilians in the pure sense of the term if their indoctrination goes so far.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
The ship doesn't explode properly because the ship is a level, not an object. The engine just doesn't support that. Any player ship inside the hull is destroyed in the blast though so you can be assured all the civilians and children aboard are most certainly dead.
You really believe that? Hehe... I guess you've never played Doomsday device and watched the Doomsday device blast the side off a planet....
If the Devs wanted to make the Fortress ship explode, they could. It doesn't, ergo they don't want it to explode.
And again... FORTRESS ship, not City Ship. It's a military base, I doubt they have more than token numbers of civilians, and children? well the Voth have hatcheries for those..... on planets.
You really believe that? Hehe... I guess you've never played Doomsday device and watched the Doomsday device blast the side off a planet....
If the Devs wanted to make the Fortress ship explode, they could. It doesn't, ergo they don't want it to explode.
And again... FORTRESS ship, not City Ship. It's a military base, I doubt they have more than token numbers of civilians, and children? well the Voth have hatcheries for those..... on planets.
Swapping the texture on a planet is not the same as removing interactive level geometry. You should know this. Try fiddling in the foundry or the cryengine editor.
Swapping the texture on a planet is not the same as removing interactive level geometry. You should know this. Try fiddling in the foundry or the cryengine editor.
*laughs maniacally*
You must not pay attention to the Foundry Podcasts. I'm one of the people who is a regular on the Roundtable Podcast.
Removing interactive geometry is as easy as removing a dust cloud. It's a simple trick that most authors learn how to do relatively early.
And Doomsday device doesn't swap the planet texture. It removes the original(round) object and replaces it with a non-round object and a debris field. (yes, both of these assets are in Foundry) Anyways, the before has a round planet with proper collision, and after is a non-round planetoid and debris field with appropriate collision.
You must not pay attention to the Foundry Podcasts. I'm one of the people who is a regular on the Roundtable Podcast.
Removing interactive geometry is as easy as removing a dust cloud. It's a simple trick that most authors learn how to do relatively early.
And Doomsday device doesn't swap the planet texture. It removes the original(round) object and replaces it with a non-round object and a debris field. (yes, both of these assets are in Foundry) Anyways, the before has a round planet with proper collision, and after is a non-round planetoid and debris field with appropriate collision.
Have you considered just making your own fly-through giant spaceship with multiple areas that explodes at the end without a loading screen transition?
I see a lot of mental gymnastics in this thread to justify genocide, and it's sickening. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Sure, compare the city ship to the Death Star, go ahead - it isn't as though the Death Star wasn't filled with hundreds of thousands of noncomabatants, support crew, and the like. Oh, and the extensive brig likely brimming with rebel prisoners.
Or hey, it's like Independence Day! You know, with that big ship near the moon that it is implied was the entirety of the race featured in that movie, the destruction of which resulted in literal genocide - and on top of that, by comparison, the City Ship's destruction isn't even remotely justified. The Death Star and the ID4 Aliens were wiping out massive civilian populations with no provocation. The Voth, on the other hand, are checking out the Dyson Sphere and telling people to get out of what is likely their territory.
Which the Federation responds to by blowing up their enormous flying city filled with milions of beings.
Did we suddenly end up in the mirror universe? Because that smacks of certain comparisons to certain groups that were also fond of mass murder with little provocation.
It's certainly appropriate that some federation captains are flying ships eerily reminiscent of Star Destroyers now - we're certainly starting to act like the Empire.
Oh, and for the record, having the Voth ship actually visibly explode would be unfeasible - that instance probably barely holds together as is. Even ignoring that fact that the interior begins to suffer repeated detonations capable of destroying shielded vessels in an unshielded environment, you knock out the ships power. In the middle of a Dyson Sphere. There are only two directions a disabled ship of that size can go at this point - either the exterior wall, or the contained star. So yes, any surviving Voth in the hulk die horribly.
This instance is disgusting and the people who defend it with such frivolous, narrow-minded reasons are a pox.
I see a lot of mental gymnastics in this thread to justify genocide, and it's sickening. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Sure, compare the city ship to the Death Star, go ahead - it isn't as though the Death Star wasn't filled with hundreds of thousands of noncomabatants, support crew, and the like. Oh, and the extensive brig likely brimming with rebel prisoners.
Don't get alarmed by what this guy is saying, as it should be fairly evident by now, he's a troll. How? Quite simply enough, he's dismissing critical plot components that essentially speak against his argument, because they were...ooohhhhh...crucial plot points.
For example, I'll use the Death Star. You're trying to explain that an entire battle station worth of crew were not deserving of what they had coming to them? Sure, there may have been rebel prisoners onboard, but their status as 'living' is arguable at best. Remember, the station had just recently[/i] suffered a major security breach, in which one of their most prized prisoners had managed to escape. The Empire doesn't give two chop's of the log worth of care for warmth when it comes to stuff like that, and they knew that there would be a chance that the other rebels in their prison would see the routine of escape as suddenly possible. Either they died fighting their way out after the security alarms triggered, died because they were interrogated after, faced execution or never existed to begin with.
Now that we've got literally the only group of innocents, a small group that assuredly never left the double digits (and I'll tell you why if you don't figure it out.) we'll move on to everybody else, [iincluding you[/i] Spacegamer. Remember, this space station had just blown up an entire planet worth of people. That's several BILLION more people than on that station. Want to know what's funny about that little detail?...they were planning on blowing up more planets too. You say it's genocide to destroy that station yet you turn your head and ignore a scene that is literally in the movie, where they destroy an entire planet, before dictating which one they should destroy next! As for the people onboard when it blew? Well, damn, they probably shouldn't have accepted the job opportunity on the classified planet-exploding super-station strangely labeled the 'Death Star'. Pretty sure they knew exactly where they were going with that choice in career path.
Or hey, it's like Independence Day! You know, with that big ship near the moon that it is implied was the entirety of the race featured in that movie, the destruction of which resulted in literal genocide - and on top of that, by comparison, the City Ship's destruction isn't even remotely justified. The Death Star and the ID4 Aliens were wiping out massive civilian populations with no provocation. The Voth, on the other hand, are checking out the Dyson Sphere and telling people to get out of what is likely their territory.
Genocide can be surprisingly justifiable when you've literally been provided no choice in the matter. The Voth were pressing for the same thing, as they understood the power that could be found within the Dyson Sphere. If this is the same Sphere that I remember, it has the ability to simply pluck starships from nearby orbit and pull them in. A little adjustment and that could be dangerous. Now, tell me...what happens if they find out how to move the Dyson sphere? What happens if they start using it to destroy planets (which is a very stupid-easy feat when you've got a moving planet)? What about those issues? What's that? You want to disable it? Good luck getting into weapon's range without becoming a blackish smear on the outside of that place, because that was a very canon risk, with no real benefit to those still in the ship during such.
Which the Federation responds to by blowing up their enormous flying city filled with milions of beings.
Did we suddenly end up in the mirror universe? Because that smacks of certain comparisons to certain groups that were also fond of mass murder with little provocation.
It's certainly appropriate that some federation captains are flying ships eerily reminiscent of Star Destroyers now - we're certainly starting to act like the Empire.
Oh, and for the record, having the Voth ship actually visibly explode would be unfeasible - that instance probably barely holds together as is. Even ignoring that fact that the interior begins to suffer repeated detonations capable of destroying shielded vessels in an unshielded environment, you knock out the ships power. In the middle of a Dyson Sphere. There are only two directions a disabled ship of that size can go at this point - either the exterior wall, or the contained star. So yes, any surviving Voth in the hulk die horribly.
This instance is disgusting and the people who defend it with such frivolous, narrow-minded reasons are a pox.
The Voth want the galaxy under more than just their rule. If the rumors are true, they want to explode planets no differently than the Death Star, and they want to kill people no differently than the Aliens from Independence Day. That's two very obvious problems that we shouldn't allow. Ever. Don't agree? Then you're no better than them. No, you're worse, you're that sympathizer guy that sets up a picnic protest at Starfleet Academy claiming that nobody negotiated, that the burning husks that were dozens of ships sent to negotiate never existed, and that the serving personnel being shipped to war to save you, are the evil ones.
It's a hope that this doesn't reflect your real-world personality. Moreso, if you are really that perturbed, you should take a chill-pill and realize that it's just a game. Don't like what's being provided? Turn it off, go to the television and Watch Star Trek, or better yet, just go outside. You really shouldn't be venting flawed opinions for the sake of an issue you can easily solve yourself.
Have you considered just making your own fly-through giant spaceship with multiple areas that explodes at the end without a loading screen transition?
Have I done it? no. But now I have the urge to do it.... That sort of thing is really more tedious than difficult.
I'm not sure it's up yet, but the Foundry mission "Conjoined" has a spectacular example of what the game engine is truly capable of. In it the author simulated a dimensional shift by replacing the entire set, not once but twice. And this was without changing maps. If that's not up you can try searching for missions by Pendra, Kirkfat, or Stoutes. They've done similarly interesting things.
The most complex that I've done personally was creating a computer room themed on the Fortress of Solitude in Superman 2. It had a bunch of props that appeared and disappeared as you did things.
Making a Mega-ship explode is simply a matter of setting a trigger and having all of the objects that make up the megaship disappear when that trigger is reached, then get replaced with a big series of explosions and debris. Ooooh! I just though of a mission that DID make a Megaship disappear! I forget the exact name but it was something like "Clear Water Running". The author made an enormous "Colony Ship" out of various objects. It was about as big as ESD and disappears while you're distracted by fighting off some random aliens who are trying to hijack it.
Ooooh! I just though of a mission that DID make a Megaship disappear! I forget the exact name but it was something like "Clear Water Running". The author made an enormous "Colony Ship" out of various objects. It was about as big as ESD and disappears while you're distracted by fighting off some random aliens who are trying to hijack it.
i played that mission once...it was nice; i wish the author had made a sequel, not that i have time to play foundry missions anymore
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Don't get alarmed by what this guy is saying, as it should be fairly evident by now, he's a troll. How? Quite simply enough, he's dismissing critical plot components that essentially speak against his argument, because they were...ooohhhhh...crucial plot points.
For example, I'll use the Death Star. You're trying to explain that an entire battle station worth of crew were not deserving of what they had coming to them? Sure, there may have been rebel prisoners onboard, but their status as 'living' is arguable at best. Remember, the station had just recently[/i] suffered a major security breach, in which one of their most prized prisoners had managed to escape. The Empire doesn't give two chop's of the log worth of care for warmth when it comes to stuff like that, and they knew that there would be a chance that the other rebels in their prison would see the routine of escape as suddenly possible. Either they died fighting their way out after the security alarms triggered, died because they were interrogated after, faced execution or never existed to begin with.
Now that we've got literally the only group of innocents, a small group that assuredly never left the double digits (and I'll tell you why if you don't figure it out.) we'll move on to everybody else, [iincluding you[/i] Spacegamer. Remember, this space station had just blown up an entire planet worth of people. That's several BILLION more people than on that station. Want to know what's funny about that little detail?...they were planning on blowing up more planets too. You say it's genocide to destroy that station yet you turn your head and ignore a scene that is literally in the movie, where they destroy an entire planet, before dictating which one they should destroy next! As for the people onboard when it blew? Well, damn, they probably shouldn't have accepted the job opportunity on the classified planet-exploding super-station strangely labeled the 'Death Star'. Pretty sure they knew exactly where they were going with that choice in career path.
Genocide can be surprisingly justifiable when you've literally been provided no choice in the matter. The Voth were pressing for the same thing, as they understood the power that could be found within the Dyson Sphere. If this is the same Sphere that I remember, it has the ability to simply pluck starships from nearby orbit and pull them in. A little adjustment and that could be dangerous. Now, tell me...what happens if they find out how to move the Dyson sphere? What happens if they start using it to destroy planets (which is a very stupid-easy feat when you've got a moving planet)? What about those issues? What's that? You want to disable it? Good luck getting into weapon's range without becoming a blackish smear on the outside of that place, because that was a very canon risk, with no real benefit to those still in the ship during such.
The Voth want the galaxy under more than just their rule. If the rumors are true, they want to explode planets no differently than the Death Star, and they want to kill people no differently than the Aliens from Independence Day. That's two very obvious problems that we shouldn't allow. Ever. Don't agree? Then you're no better than them. No, you're worse, you're that sympathizer guy that sets up a picnic protest at Starfleet Academy claiming that nobody negotiated, that the burning husks that were dozens of ships sent to negotiate never existed, and that the serving personnel being shipped to war to save you, are the evil ones.
It's a hope that this doesn't reflect your real-world personality. Moreso, if you are really that perturbed, you should take a chill-pill and realize that it's just a game. Don't like what's being provided? Turn it off, go to the television and Watch Star Trek, or better yet, just go outside. You really shouldn't be venting flawed opinions for the sake of an issue you can easily solve yourself.
It'd be nice to not be called a troll just because I'd like to reintroduce morality and contemplation of consequences into STO, but whatever. Besides, the only one not reading here is you, I brought up both of your points about aggression regarding the other examples even before you had. And then, when discussing the Voth themselves, you even used the word "rumor" without any prompting from my arguments. So yeah, any preemptive large-scale aggression on their end is rumor and hearsay. Good job sabotaging your own argument.
But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night, you psychopath.
It'd be nice to not be called a troll just because I'd like to reintroduce morality and contemplation of consequences into STO, but whatever. Besides, the only one not reading here is you, I brought up both of your points about aggression regarding the other examples even before you had. And then, when discussing the Voth themselves, you even used the word "rumor" without any prompting from my arguments. So yeah, any preemptive large-scale aggression on their end is rumor and hearsay. Good job sabotaging your own argument.
But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night, you psychopath.
You're probably right, 'Rumor' seems a little of an intentional downplay of the facts. The voth didn't want to negotiate, they simply saw something with the potential for destroying entire worlds and decided that there was no need what-so-ever to negotiate for access. Having taken the time to assess the potential dangers of a world that even the Voth do not fully understand, Starfleet was entirely within their jurisdiction to react once the ships they posted around began exploding due to Voth attack.
You attack an armored car, or more simply, a site of police investigation...someplace that has been surrounded by personnel of obvious government association, in plain sight I might add, and tell me when they don't retaliate in some fashion.
The Voth didn't negotiate, they didn't stop once we requested negotiations and have asked in every variety for an armed response. The only sociopath here, is the one who cannot under any circumstance, see that this unprovoked attack warrants the defense provided. In this case, that'd be you, SpaceGamer.
Except, and bear with me here, since you have difficulty with reading comprehension and all, I haven't said anything about not fighting the Voth. Voth military ships are perfectly valid targets. Voth soldiers are perfectly valid targets. You get the idea.
A big flying city filled with, and I will continue to stress this number, millions of sentient beings, the majority of which are likely civilian?
Not so legitimate. And sure as hell not in character for a "Peace-Loving" Federation. The fact is, the Federation escalated to a level of total war extremely quickly and engaged in massively destructive attacks on targets that can, realistically, be considered non-military. Talk all the TRIBBLE about omega particles and so-called doomsday weapons you want, but that is the fact of the matter.
So yeah, glory to the empire, death to the aliens, and all that. I guess I'll advocate unwarranted mass murder too, would that make you feel better, mourkoth?
Except, and bear with me here, since you have difficulty with reading comprehension and all, I haven't said anything about not fighting the Voth. Voth military ships are perfectly valid targets. Voth soldiers are perfectly valid targets. You get the idea.
A big flying city filled with, and I will continue to stress this number, millions of sentient beings, the majority of which are likely civilian?
Not so legitimate. And sure as hell not in character for a "Peace-Loving" Federation. The fact is, the Federation escalated to a level of total war extremely quickly and engaged in massively destructive attacks on targets that can, realistically, be considered non-military. Talk all the TRIBBLE about omega particles and so-called doomsday weapons you want, but that is the fact of the matter.
So yeah, glory to the empire, death to the aliens, and all that. I guess I'll advocate unwarranted mass murder too, would that make you feel better, mourkoth?
The Voth are not the Federation, and while you may feel the intense need to assign civilian staff to a vessel that is clearly military in function, then it's your mind at work, not logic.
What purpose would it serve the Voth to bring civilians into a zone of conflict, to claim a potential weapon for purposes that demand no negotiating with the Federation whatsoever? Just like the Death Star, it's purely military staff for a purely military function, anything less would make an attack on any force that much more dangerous.
I'd like to see some evidence that there were civilians on that ship before I agree with any conclusion that it may have been a possibility on the part of the Voth. Unarmed research teams, unarmed shuttles, hell...even a building within with something resembling a hospital sign will do.
Except, and bear with me here, since you have difficulty with reading comprehension and all, I haven't said anything about not fighting the Voth. Voth military ships are perfectly valid targets. Voth soldiers are perfectly valid targets. You get the idea.
A big flying city filled with, and I will continue to stress this number, millions of sentient beings, the majority of which are likely civilian?
Not so legitimate. And sure as hell not in character for a "Peace-Loving" Federation. The fact is, the Federation escalated to a level of total war extremely quickly and engaged in massively destructive attacks on targets that can, realistically, be considered non-military. Talk all the TRIBBLE about omega particles and so-called doomsday weapons you want, but that is the fact of the matter.
So yeah, glory to the empire, death to the aliens, and all that. I guess I'll advocate unwarranted mass murder too, would that make you feel better, mourkoth?
IT'S... NOT.... A... CITY... SHIP.....
It's called a FORTRESS ship for a reason. It's a mobile military base. Thus, like the Death Star is perfectly valid as a military target.
Are you really so desperate to hide from your conscience? The fact that the Voth have civilian crews in their ships is literally right in front of you - it's in their introductory episode in Voyager, for god's sake. And that was just a Dreadnought - imagine how much larger a potential population would be in the city ship, given their abilities with phasing technology.
Think about it, seriously. You don't build a structure of that size and stock it with a purely military crew - that is an enormous waste of space and effort, and is a needless concentration of forces. We'll use the Death Star as an example again.
Here, read this paragraph since you can't think on your own -
Since service onboard the Death Star was a long-term affair, the station maintained a number of civilian amenities to make the time aboard a deep space station more comfortable. Parks, shopping centers, recreation areas, and taverns such as the Hard Heart Cantina could be found in the general sectors of the station.[4]
There. Look at that. Civilian amenities imply civilian crew to run them. While the thought of Stormtroopers running shopping malls is funny, it is sadly not the case. There's also the extreme likelihood of families in the extensive living quarters of the station.
Now, the Voth are masters of phasing tech. One of their dreads was roughly as large on the inside as the City Ship instance - don't believe me? Go watch the stupid voyager episode - it's on netflix.
Moreover, we are literally shown members of the Voth civilian population in this episode. And the ship is so large and so populated that it is implied to be the center of Voth civilization.
Now look at the City Ship.
Kinda big, right?
Now imagine how much bigger it must be in the phased portions, and tell me that ship must surely have a purely military crew.
And then explain what all those "hardpoints" in the center trough that look suspiciously like buildings are, seeing as how they obviously aren't weapons systems.
Are you really so desperate to hide from your conscience? The fact that the Voth have civilian crews in their ships is literally right in front of you - it's in their introductory episode in Voyager, for god's sake. And that was just a Dreadnought - imagine how much larger a potential population would be in the city ship, given their abilities with phasing technology.
Think about it, seriously. You don't build a structure of that size and stock it with a purely military crew - that is an enormous waste of space and effort, and is a needless concentration of forces. We'll use the Death Star as an example again.
Here, read this paragraph since you can't think on your own -
There. Look at that. Civilian amenities imply civilian crew to run them. While the thought of Stormtroopers running shopping malls is funny, it is sadly not the case. There's also the extreme likelihood of families in the extensive living quarters of the station.
Now, the Voth are masters of phasing tech. One of their dreads was roughly as large on the inside as the City Ship instance - don't believe me? Go watch the stupid voyager episode - it's on netflix.
Moreover, we are literally shown members of the Voth civilian population in this episode. And the ship is so large and so populated that it is implied to be the center of Voth civilization.
Now look at the City Ship.
Kinda big, right?
Now imagine how much bigger it must be in the phased portions, and tell me that ship must surely have a purely military crew.
And then explain what all those "hardpoints" in the center trough that look suspiciously like buildings are, seeing as how they obviously aren't weapons systems.
Go ahead. Keep trying to justify genocide.
I'm still waiting for that evidence. Unarmed Voth researchers or unarmed Voth shuttles.
They probably all hid when the Federation flew in and started nuking the city around them. Hopefully they even managed to get away.
As for unarmed researchers, I'm fairly confident the guys shown in the rep tier advancement missions count, given the named one's statement that he is on the city ship. Which you then destroy. So there you go.
You'll probably just blow this off though, and keep pretending there's nothing wrong with attacking a large civilian population. I should expect nothing less. I mean, you're doing a pretty good job at ignoring all the evidence I have presented, as well as simple common sense.
Comments
I'm gonna go with coincidence. :P
My character Tsin'xing
Anyhoos, fair to say i carried the two of them - not terribly hard in a scimitar - but we saved all 9 ships and all got out alive. Took a little longer than usual, though it was very enjoyable.
Peacekeeper High Command
Scorpius - Zelbinion Mk II
To put it bluntly, it reminded me of the infamous 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center. I felt like a member of Al-kaida as I flew down the center trough of the city ship, shooting at "hard points" that looked suspiciously like buildings. They weren't shooting back at all, and for all I know I was destroying Voth schools, daycares, or office buildings. I started having flashbacks to the streets of New York on the aforementioned day, and it made me queasy.
Then, I come to find out that you end up destroying this vessel. This is not a small ship. It is several hundred miles long. There is potential room in there for millions of sentients. And you just take out their power and fly away, leaving them to die a fiery death as they smash into the Dyson Sphere Shell.
So even ignoring the fact that the Federation is the one doing this, willingly, with no attempts at an alternative (I guess the Klingons too, but I'd expect it from those filthy warmongers. They'd be too weak to do it though) Cryptic is also alienating players directly with the fallout of their forced actions.
Thanks for making me feel like Osama Bin Laden, guys. Really does wonders for my conscience. Now I'm left to wonder at what point did Cryptic became a recruiting ground for al kaida terrorists. Kid's play this game, after all, and we know how fanatics love to breed child soldiers.
Um...what?!?!
Its more of a Death-Star trench run from Star Wars, or the scene from Independence Day (big big ship, nuke, and BOOM) than what you just described.
How you got the 9/11 comparison is beyond me...
It's an atrocity when you stop to think about it. :eek:
This is just an equivalent of a surgical strike mission, or like the ground delta force missions, where a team of 4 go in beind enemy lines, complete their mission and get out as fast as possible.
First the ship is not a city ship, its a huge militarry fortress ship, loaded with troops, ships, repairing facilities and maybe even ship factories.
I think the devs had this in mind: the goal is to get in, destroy its power source to cripple their ship crafting/repairing facilities (thus giving the dyson command joint forces some breathing room or even posibility to advance a bit) and get out. But becouse the voth are soo advanced, it seems their power souce is a safe one, maybe a subspace energy tap or something and it doesnt destroy the ship. And also its safe to assume that there is some sort of back up generators to sustain the ship basic functions till the ship's main power source its repaired/rebuilt. So there the repetability of the mission comes in, since you cripple their ship, voth repairs it, then you do it again and so on.
I dont get all this atrocity thing references. This is one of the best missions Cryptic did so far.
Here we have Starfleet Ships destroying unarmed escape shuttles .... *shock* in the spire. It doesn't matter if the ship you are attacking is destroyed or not in the Breech. The sheer amount of violence and lack of respect for life is antithetical to the very concept of the Federation.
Also don't forget about T'Rex with lasers on their head ... Major Fail on Cryptic's part.
- Judge Aaron Satie
It's a flying military base. THIS is the location that the Voth ground troops in the ground warzone are coming from. And yeah, I've done Breach several times and at no point does the Fortress ship explode....
My character Tsin'xing
#It'sJustaGameAndAFreeOneAtThat!
Come Visit the 44th Fleet
My character Tsin'xing
Was hoping for a more substantial boost to marks like the borg stf's but I guess you really can't classify breach as an stf.
#It'sJustaGameAndAFreeOneAtThat!
Come Visit the 44th Fleet
The ship doesn't explode properly because the ship is a level, not an object. The engine just doesn't support that. Any player ship inside the hull is destroyed in the blast though so you can be assured all the civilians and children aboard are most certainly dead.
"City" does not mean civilian. It can be any settlement.
For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Khalid_Military_City
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlasikha,_Moscow_Oblast
Also remember we are dealing with a theocracy that seems to control just about every aspect of their society that we have seen. There may not even be civilians in the pure sense of the term if their indoctrination goes so far.
If the Devs wanted to make the Fortress ship explode, they could. It doesn't, ergo they don't want it to explode.
And again... FORTRESS ship, not City Ship. It's a military base, I doubt they have more than token numbers of civilians, and children? well the Voth have hatcheries for those..... on planets.
My character Tsin'xing
Swapping the texture on a planet is not the same as removing interactive level geometry. You should know this. Try fiddling in the foundry or the cryengine editor.
You must not pay attention to the Foundry Podcasts. I'm one of the people who is a regular on the Roundtable Podcast.
Removing interactive geometry is as easy as removing a dust cloud. It's a simple trick that most authors learn how to do relatively early.
And Doomsday device doesn't swap the planet texture. It removes the original(round) object and replaces it with a non-round object and a debris field. (yes, both of these assets are in Foundry) Anyways, the before has a round planet with proper collision, and after is a non-round planetoid and debris field with appropriate collision.
My character Tsin'xing
Have you considered just making your own fly-through giant spaceship with multiple areas that explodes at the end without a loading screen transition?
Or hey, it's like Independence Day! You know, with that big ship near the moon that it is implied was the entirety of the race featured in that movie, the destruction of which resulted in literal genocide - and on top of that, by comparison, the City Ship's destruction isn't even remotely justified. The Death Star and the ID4 Aliens were wiping out massive civilian populations with no provocation. The Voth, on the other hand, are checking out the Dyson Sphere and telling people to get out of what is likely their territory.
Which the Federation responds to by blowing up their enormous flying city filled with milions of beings.
Did we suddenly end up in the mirror universe? Because that smacks of certain comparisons to certain groups that were also fond of mass murder with little provocation.
It's certainly appropriate that some federation captains are flying ships eerily reminiscent of Star Destroyers now - we're certainly starting to act like the Empire.
Oh, and for the record, having the Voth ship actually visibly explode would be unfeasible - that instance probably barely holds together as is. Even ignoring that fact that the interior begins to suffer repeated detonations capable of destroying shielded vessels in an unshielded environment, you knock out the ships power. In the middle of a Dyson Sphere. There are only two directions a disabled ship of that size can go at this point - either the exterior wall, or the contained star. So yes, any surviving Voth in the hulk die horribly.
This instance is disgusting and the people who defend it with such frivolous, narrow-minded reasons are a pox.
Don't get alarmed by what this guy is saying, as it should be fairly evident by now, he's a troll. How? Quite simply enough, he's dismissing critical plot components that essentially speak against his argument, because they were...ooohhhhh...crucial plot points.
For example, I'll use the Death Star. You're trying to explain that an entire battle station worth of crew were not deserving of what they had coming to them? Sure, there may have been rebel prisoners onboard, but their status as 'living' is arguable at best. Remember, the station had just recently[/i] suffered a major security breach, in which one of their most prized prisoners had managed to escape. The Empire doesn't give two chop's of the log worth of care for warmth when it comes to stuff like that, and they knew that there would be a chance that the other rebels in their prison would see the routine of escape as suddenly possible. Either they died fighting their way out after the security alarms triggered, died because they were interrogated after, faced execution or never existed to begin with.
Now that we've got literally the only group of innocents, a small group that assuredly never left the double digits (and I'll tell you why if you don't figure it out.) we'll move on to everybody else, [iincluding you[/i] Spacegamer. Remember, this space station had just blown up an entire planet worth of people. That's several BILLION more people than on that station. Want to know what's funny about that little detail?...they were planning on blowing up more planets too. You say it's genocide to destroy that station yet you turn your head and ignore a scene that is literally in the movie, where they destroy an entire planet, before dictating which one they should destroy next! As for the people onboard when it blew? Well, damn, they probably shouldn't have accepted the job opportunity on the classified planet-exploding super-station strangely labeled the 'Death Star'. Pretty sure they knew exactly where they were going with that choice in career path.
Genocide can be surprisingly justifiable when you've literally been provided no choice in the matter. The Voth were pressing for the same thing, as they understood the power that could be found within the Dyson Sphere. If this is the same Sphere that I remember, it has the ability to simply pluck starships from nearby orbit and pull them in. A little adjustment and that could be dangerous. Now, tell me...what happens if they find out how to move the Dyson sphere? What happens if they start using it to destroy planets (which is a very stupid-easy feat when you've got a moving planet)? What about those issues? What's that? You want to disable it? Good luck getting into weapon's range without becoming a blackish smear on the outside of that place, because that was a very canon risk, with no real benefit to those still in the ship during such.
The Voth want the galaxy under more than just their rule. If the rumors are true, they want to explode planets no differently than the Death Star, and they want to kill people no differently than the Aliens from Independence Day. That's two very obvious problems that we shouldn't allow. Ever. Don't agree? Then you're no better than them. No, you're worse, you're that sympathizer guy that sets up a picnic protest at Starfleet Academy claiming that nobody negotiated, that the burning husks that were dozens of ships sent to negotiate never existed, and that the serving personnel being shipped to war to save you, are the evil ones.
It's a hope that this doesn't reflect your real-world personality. Moreso, if you are really that perturbed, you should take a chill-pill and realize that it's just a game. Don't like what's being provided? Turn it off, go to the television and Watch Star Trek, or better yet, just go outside. You really shouldn't be venting flawed opinions for the sake of an issue you can easily solve yourself.
I'm not sure it's up yet, but the Foundry mission "Conjoined" has a spectacular example of what the game engine is truly capable of.
The most complex that I've done personally was creating a computer room themed on the Fortress of Solitude in Superman 2. It had a bunch of props that appeared and disappeared as you did things.
Making a Mega-ship explode is simply a matter of setting a trigger and having all of the objects that make up the megaship disappear when that trigger is reached, then get replaced with a big series of explosions and debris. Ooooh! I just though of a mission that DID make a Megaship disappear! I forget the exact name but it was something like "Clear Water Running". The author made an enormous "Colony Ship" out of various objects. It was about as big as ESD and disappears while you're distracted by fighting off some random aliens who are trying to hijack it.
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
It'd be nice to not be called a troll just because I'd like to reintroduce morality and contemplation of consequences into STO, but whatever. Besides, the only one not reading here is you, I brought up both of your points about aggression regarding the other examples even before you had. And then, when discussing the Voth themselves, you even used the word "rumor" without any prompting from my arguments. So yeah, any preemptive large-scale aggression on their end is rumor and hearsay. Good job sabotaging your own argument.
But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night, you psychopath.
You're probably right, 'Rumor' seems a little of an intentional downplay of the facts. The voth didn't want to negotiate, they simply saw something with the potential for destroying entire worlds and decided that there was no need what-so-ever to negotiate for access. Having taken the time to assess the potential dangers of a world that even the Voth do not fully understand, Starfleet was entirely within their jurisdiction to react once the ships they posted around began exploding due to Voth attack.
You attack an armored car, or more simply, a site of police investigation...someplace that has been surrounded by personnel of obvious government association, in plain sight I might add, and tell me when they don't retaliate in some fashion.
The Voth didn't negotiate, they didn't stop once we requested negotiations and have asked in every variety for an armed response. The only sociopath here, is the one who cannot under any circumstance, see that this unprovoked attack warrants the defense provided. In this case, that'd be you, SpaceGamer.
A big flying city filled with, and I will continue to stress this number, millions of sentient beings, the majority of which are likely civilian?
Not so legitimate. And sure as hell not in character for a "Peace-Loving" Federation. The fact is, the Federation escalated to a level of total war extremely quickly and engaged in massively destructive attacks on targets that can, realistically, be considered non-military. Talk all the TRIBBLE about omega particles and so-called doomsday weapons you want, but that is the fact of the matter.
So yeah, glory to the empire, death to the aliens, and all that. I guess I'll advocate unwarranted mass murder too, would that make you feel better, mourkoth?
The Voth are not the Federation, and while you may feel the intense need to assign civilian staff to a vessel that is clearly military in function, then it's your mind at work, not logic.
What purpose would it serve the Voth to bring civilians into a zone of conflict, to claim a potential weapon for purposes that demand no negotiating with the Federation whatsoever? Just like the Death Star, it's purely military staff for a purely military function, anything less would make an attack on any force that much more dangerous.
I'd like to see some evidence that there were civilians on that ship before I agree with any conclusion that it may have been a possibility on the part of the Voth. Unarmed research teams, unarmed shuttles, hell...even a building within with something resembling a hospital sign will do.
It's called a FORTRESS ship for a reason. It's a mobile military base. Thus, like the Death Star is perfectly valid as a military target.
My character Tsin'xing
Think about it, seriously. You don't build a structure of that size and stock it with a purely military crew - that is an enormous waste of space and effort, and is a needless concentration of forces. We'll use the Death Star as an example again.
Here, read this paragraph since you can't think on your own -
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star
There. Look at that. Civilian amenities imply civilian crew to run them. While the thought of Stormtroopers running shopping malls is funny, it is sadly not the case. There's also the extreme likelihood of families in the extensive living quarters of the station.
Now, the Voth are masters of phasing tech. One of their dreads was roughly as large on the inside as the City Ship instance - don't believe me? Go watch the stupid voyager episode - it's on netflix.
Moreover, we are literally shown members of the Voth civilian population in this episode. And the ship is so large and so populated that it is implied to be the center of Voth civilization.
Now look at the City Ship.
Kinda big, right?
Now imagine how much bigger it must be in the phased portions, and tell me that ship must surely have a purely military crew.
And then explain what all those "hardpoints" in the center trough that look suspiciously like buildings are, seeing as how they obviously aren't weapons systems.
Go ahead. Keep trying to justify genocide.
I'm still waiting for that evidence. Unarmed Voth researchers or unarmed Voth shuttles.
My character Tsin'xing
As for unarmed researchers, I'm fairly confident the guys shown in the rep tier advancement missions count, given the named one's statement that he is on the city ship. Which you then destroy. So there you go.
You'll probably just blow this off though, and keep pretending there's nothing wrong with attacking a large civilian population. I should expect nothing less. I mean, you're doing a pretty good job at ignoring all the evidence I have presented, as well as simple common sense.