That sounds pretty sad, especially since you gain rewards 4x the pace in the ground Battle Zones. Perhaps these AFK'ers are gold farmers manning multiple PC's per human operator?
Either people disconnect right at the start, Or they slowly drift behind everybody else (as not to do any fighting, but staying in the ship at the end lowering everyones bonus scores)
It's a bit of a pain, but the easiest way around it is getting a premade in PublicEliteStf channel or something similar. Which is kind of a shame really, as the whole point of the PvE's menu is to be able to quickly sign up and jump into a mission
I went into the Breach, as soon as i warped in, the system warped me out and i got a penalty which i then sent in a bug report which that had never happened.
I'll link this for the third time to you, since you keep ignoring the imagery showing the civilian cities and ships: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=13679701&postcount=162
You have refuted none of this but claimed (with no evidence) that there were no civilians on board, demanding we prove otherwise or else you were right, sticking you fingers in your ears.
Since you're asking for a crew manifest as a last-chance straw to clutch, demanding us to prove your assertion wrong - how about you do exactly what you've asked us to do, and find this crew manifest yourself to show us the lack of onboard civilians? Not to much to ask is it?
Also I like the fact you have now explicitly said you have no problems attacking a civilian target if the ends justify the means. That's sociopathic in the extreme. I suppose when you saw the wikileaks "collateral murder" video you just shrugged and went "whatever"?
There is no evidence at all that the Voth are doing anything other than securing the sphere, same as the Federation is supposedly doing - I'd ask you to prove your claim but you haven't backed up any of your other assertions so far with any hard evidence so I guess you won't feel compelled now.
You have all the makings of a real life war criminal. Congratulations I guess?
'Securing the sphere' - sort of strange that they would do that by attacking every Federation ship along the way, while ignoring the ongoing requests to negotiate rather than fight.
As for your statement - the vessels are performing a vital function for combat, it's called combat engineering. They're prioritizing the repair of vessels rather than the engagement with you.Not that they can't, just that they shouldn't, because it's not restoring the guns that can really hurt you. Burden of proof stands, unless you can verify fully that they are crewed by a civilian presence, you're essentially doing nothing but labeling a craft performing an essential military function...
...and for the final time, I am not looking for your detached examples of things that have happened in our past. Does it talk about the Voth? No? Then it's not an associated article. It's loosely connected via your opinion and nothing else.
Until you can provide the evidence I've asked for, then you've got warships to explain away. More than that, you've got Warships to talk away and civilians to materialize as a counter to them. Where are the civilians? Can you show them to me?...if not, you're blowing smoke.
I think you might be terrible at math. Let me explain to you how numbers work.
One Million is much, much bigger than One Hundred. There are easily far more than One Million souls on the City Ship.
So yes, there are a hundred or so nominally civilian starfleet researchers on this base. In Voth territory. That the Voth have asked us to leave. In order to "protect" them, we kill several million Voth, many of which are non-combatants.
These numbers are not anywhere within the same league.
For reference, the Federation are behaving much like the white man coming to the New World. But I'm sure all of you bleating sheep will attempt to downplay that atrocity too.
My math is quite fine thank you. But wether it be Hundreds, Thousands, Millions or Billions the point still stands.
It's not Voth territory. It's free space. There is allied space, Contested space, and Voth space in the Zone. They sent the City Ship( which BTW is labeled a Fortress ship) to blow the hell out of our spire. We didnt waltz over there to attack their Ship.
The Sphere and all stuff in it belongs to parties unknown.
The Bolded part is completely and utterly uncalled for. It is also MASSIVELY OFFENSIVE.
As also for that part its more like the Allies Vs. Axis, all going to Antartica because someone found something nifty, setting up two seperate camps and fighting over who gets it.
Not only is it not just the Federation, but the Klingons and Romulans too.
Also you people need to relax its a game.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As for your statement - the vessels are performing a vital function for combat, it's called combat engineering.
Well, clearly the Voth send unarmed, under-shielded ships full of civilians into raging firefights to perform key military operations. I mean, why wouldn't they? These are the guys who apparently build apartment complexes on key structural points of the outer hulls of their warships.
Until you can provide the evidence I've asked for, then you've got warships to explain away. More than that, you've got Warships to talk away and civilians to materialize as a counter to them. Where are the civilians? Can you show them to me?...if not, you're blowing smoke.
That was literally everything linked to you which you have ignored on every page. So basically you're a war criminal at heart and a troll with a reading comprehension disability. Got it.
That was literally everything linked to you which you have ignored on every page. So basically you're a war criminal at heart and a troll with a reading comprehension disability. Got it.
I know you're TRIBBLE around, but what the hey. I am bored and I got nothing better to do before bed and I want to be called a monster, too.
Attacking the Voth ship, regardless of the presence of civilians, is not a war crime. It's a simple fact of life that war is bad and it kills innocent people. Short of outlawing war, it is impossible to eliminate civilian casualties completely. The purpose of war crimes tribunals is to limit those deaths insofar is as possible.
The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court states:
Under international humanitarian law and the Rome Statute, the death of civilians during an armed conflict, no matter how grave and regrettable, does not in itself constitute a war crime. International humanitarian law and the Rome Statute permit belligerents to carry out proportionate attacks against military objectives, even when it is known that some civilian deaths or injuries will occur.
For instance, you guys keep bringing up Singapore. Singapore would be a legitimate military target, if you happened to be at war with Singapore, regardless of the population. Civilian cities are battlegrounds all the time, in fact. You would be able to strike the city itself as long as:
1) You took an assessment of how many civilians died and how much long-term or permanent damage you did to the environment.
2) You assessed what you hoped to gain from doing so.
3) 1 is smaller than 2 by as wide a margin as possible. Ideally, you'll want as few enemy casualties as possible, as well.
The strike on the Fortress Ship is a disabling strike*, meant to cause superficial damage to the hull by precision attacks on weak points, followed by an insertion into the military-controlled hanger and the destruction of the power core. This leaves the vast majority of the structure intact and gives the Voth a chance to limp away on emergency power.
Destroying the core nullifies the clear and present danger of the ship with as few losses on the Voth side as possible. Even in the military hanger, your goal is not to slaughter all Voth, but to close the hanger doors to keep them out of the fight and save as many as you can. It is clear from the beginning that everything is being done to save as many Voth as possible. You couldn't ask for a cleaner operation.
This is done even though it would be easier for the Romulans to just create a big conga line of Scimitars and chain-thalaron the entire ship until nobody is left alive.
These measures are being taken in spite of the obvious threat of the Voth, who seem to commit crimes against the "pitiful mammals" wantonly. Do you really think it would be legal if an army started feeding enemy soldiers to tigers? Look on the battlezone, and you will find instances of wounded and disarmed Federation, Klingon, and Romulan captives being menaced by vicious animals who will no doubt painfully kill and devour them. Deploying combat beasts to kill people with fangs and talons is clearly an illegal terror tactic.
They even arm their medics and employ them directly in stealing Omega particles, clearly an attempt to hide behind Federation conventions while accomplishing military objectives! This in and of itself is a horrific crime, the use of human(oid) shields. A favorite of tin-pot dictators. They're probably forced into it. Is the V-Rex there to defend the silo, or eat any medic who's troublesome "ethics" get in the way of their mission?
Such are the hideous lengths that the bloodthirsty, dogmatic Voth will go to in their mad quest to harness the very fire of creation in the search for new WMDs with which to assert their dreams of racial superiority over the galaxy.
But on the other hand, if you ever played Mass Effect and used the incendiary rounds weapon mod, then you deserve everything you have coming to you, filthy war criminal.
*(And no, the Voth ship will not collide with the Dyson shell plate. If the Voth are bringing in such a valuable asset, they will keep it tidally locked to the star if they're smart.)
(You seem to think that they're complete nitwits, though. In which case, the civilians no doubt have time to transport off or board ships or escape pods. The overall gravity at that altitude should be light, due to the enveloping nature of the shell surface applying gravity from all sides at once, which will buy them time. You can see this in the other combat zones, where Voth ships float in place after being disabled, rather than falling.)
Ignoring all the silly moral high ground and arguments about blowing up things on a video game... Here are my thoughts on the mission.
I personally enjoy it.. but I like the "Death Star" type of missions like this, Ace Combat has this on every game in the series and I think its fun... but that just me and I digress.
So I have been playing this game since shortly after it launched so I'm no stranger to the game mechanics, whats preferred, etc. I also mostly play in PUGs, and yes I know that's a TRIBBLE shoot, but it adds variety to the game for me,but some things I would like to throw out there are.
It would be nice to make the optional a little better known. For example in the first room unless you look in at the mission requirements you don't know to close the hanger doors to lighten move on and slow down the waves of ships. Would be nice to get a little pop up or something from an officer suggesting it like in other missions (Infected Space comes to mind as an example, for it's optional) This would help from a PUG standpoint as it would let everyone know whats going on and what to do. (now, if the other players in the PUG choose not to do it, fine I'm ok with that it comes with playing PUGs but at least it take the ignorance factor out of the equation.)
On this same note, when you move into the room with the dreadnought I would think some mention about rescuing the ships should be more clear. About half the time (Yes I know in a PUG) most of the team bee-line for the dread and ignore the other ships/ rescuing them... again a mention would be nice aside from, or in addition to the pop up about only the dread who does nothing until attacked. I think this would slow this behavior down a little.
Now for a question. Back in the hanger room, I can never seem to locate the ships that need saving? sometimes they are rescued and sometimes they are not when I run it. But I have never been able to spot them so I just go about closing doors and hoping someone on my team gets to them... any tips on their location in this room?
And has anyone else noticed that Aceton Beam seems to draw a good aggro from the Voth? It actually seems to a very useful ability in this mission.bypassing invinci-shields and all, and for a role play aspect (if that's your thing) I like to go with they are reptiles historically from earth so I like to think they are more susceptible to radiation.
To save all the ships in the hanger room, you need someone who can turn relatively fast or someone with a cloak. They are at the back of that area from where you enter and unless you get to the one on the opposite side from the force field in about a minute or less of entering it gets destroyed. The other two usually are not that hard to get.
I don't know what you've done to this mission but it had gone from the mission I liked to do the most, to the mission I hate the most in the game. The spewing of 2 second kill Gravity Wells where ever I turn is way over powered. To be honest, the Undine that you said you were beefing up feels like a breeze in comparison to the Voth on Elite. Even though they both use Antiproton type weapons I stand no change against the Voth but have no problem with the Undine. The only thing that I can find that is a difference is the Gravity Wells that can be counted by the dozens in the Breach.
So congrats, you finally managed to remove the fun out of that mission too.
To save all the ships in the hanger room, you need someone who can turn relatively fast or someone with a cloak. They are at the back of that area from where you enter and unless you get to the one on the opposite side from the force field in about a minute or less of entering it gets destroyed. The other two usually are not that hard to get.
can be done without cloak and on cruisers/carriers by simply hugging the right wall as you come in and Evasive Maneuver/Power to Engines your way to the opposite end. be sure to carry engine batteries in case the off chance the voth knocks your engines offline.
I don't know what you've done to this mission but it had gone from the mission I liked to do the most, to the mission I hate the most in the game. The spewing of 2 second kill Gravity Wells where ever I turn is way over powered. To be honest, the Undine that you said you were beefing up feels like a breeze in comparison to the Voth on Elite. Even though they both use Antiproton type weapons I stand no change against the Voth but have no problem with the Undine. The only thing that I can find that is a difference is the Gravity Wells that can be counted by the dozens in the Breach.
So congrats, you finally managed to remove the fun out of that mission too.
Breach has been bugged since season 9 unfortunately where things are hitting with 100% shield penetration (includes their weapons. plasma ejections, etc). The know where the problem is but no ETA on fix.
can be done without cloak and on cruisers/carriers by simply hugging the right wall as you come in and Evasive Maneuver/Power to Engines your way to the opposite end. be sure to carry engine batteries in case the off chance the voth knocks your engines offline.
yea this is what I used to do, with cruiser commands on speed. Then turn left and take lix until I reach the other end. To free those ships.
Breach has been bugged since season 9 unfortunately where things are hitting with 100% shield penetration (includes their weapons. plasma ejections, etc). The know where the problem is but no ETA on fix.
Experienced that unknowingly and became part of the Voth healthy balanced breakfast. It only happens outside though. Can get inside ship and tank dreadnought as normal after blowing up over and over .
(now, if the other players in the PUG choose not to do it, fine I'm ok with that it comes with playing PUGs but at least it take the ignorance factor out of the equation.)
That annoys me more tbh. Especially in the dread hangar. Nothing is more silly than seeing someone sitting next to a ship that needs rescue just blasting away at Voth. All it takes is pressing F button to acquire free marks, why not just do it since you're there anyway?
Comments
Either people disconnect right at the start, Or they slowly drift behind everybody else (as not to do any fighting, but staying in the ship at the end lowering everyones bonus scores)
It's a bit of a pain, but the easiest way around it is getting a premade in PublicEliteStf channel or something similar. Which is kind of a shame really, as the whole point of the PvE's menu is to be able to quickly sign up and jump into a mission
i am more mad at players leaving i don't like keep s restarting the mission again
i have seen 3 players sit at start one thought he was slick and moved to the spot where we come out but got the penalty
'Securing the sphere' - sort of strange that they would do that by attacking every Federation ship along the way, while ignoring the ongoing requests to negotiate rather than fight.
As for your statement - the vessels are performing a vital function for combat, it's called combat engineering. They're prioritizing the repair of vessels rather than the engagement with you.Not that they can't, just that they shouldn't, because it's not restoring the guns that can really hurt you. Burden of proof stands, unless you can verify fully that they are crewed by a civilian presence, you're essentially doing nothing but labeling a craft performing an essential military function...
...and for the final time, I am not looking for your detached examples of things that have happened in our past. Does it talk about the Voth? No? Then it's not an associated article. It's loosely connected via your opinion and nothing else.
Until you can provide the evidence I've asked for, then you've got warships to explain away. More than that, you've got Warships to talk away and civilians to materialize as a counter to them. Where are the civilians? Can you show them to me?...if not, you're blowing smoke.
My math is quite fine thank you. But wether it be Hundreds, Thousands, Millions or Billions the point still stands.
It's not Voth territory. It's free space. There is allied space, Contested space, and Voth space in the Zone. They sent the City Ship( which BTW is labeled a Fortress ship) to blow the hell out of our spire. We didnt waltz over there to attack their Ship.
The Sphere and all stuff in it belongs to parties unknown.
The Bolded part is completely and utterly uncalled for. It is also MASSIVELY OFFENSIVE.
As also for that part its more like the Allies Vs. Axis, all going to Antartica because someone found something nifty, setting up two seperate camps and fighting over who gets it.
Not only is it not just the Federation, but the Klingons and Romulans too.
Also you people need to relax its a game.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well, clearly the Voth send unarmed, under-shielded ships full of civilians into raging firefights to perform key military operations. I mean, why wouldn't they? These are the guys who apparently build apartment complexes on key structural points of the outer hulls of their warships.
That was literally everything linked to you which you have ignored on every page. So basically you're a war criminal at heart and a troll with a reading comprehension disability. Got it.
I know you're TRIBBLE around, but what the hey. I am bored and I got nothing better to do before bed and I want to be called a monster, too.
Attacking the Voth ship, regardless of the presence of civilians, is not a war crime. It's a simple fact of life that war is bad and it kills innocent people. Short of outlawing war, it is impossible to eliminate civilian casualties completely. The purpose of war crimes tribunals is to limit those deaths insofar is as possible.
The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court states:
For instance, you guys keep bringing up Singapore. Singapore would be a legitimate military target, if you happened to be at war with Singapore, regardless of the population. Civilian cities are battlegrounds all the time, in fact. You would be able to strike the city itself as long as:
1) You took an assessment of how many civilians died and how much long-term or permanent damage you did to the environment.
2) You assessed what you hoped to gain from doing so.
3) 1 is smaller than 2 by as wide a margin as possible. Ideally, you'll want as few enemy casualties as possible, as well.
The strike on the Fortress Ship is a disabling strike*, meant to cause superficial damage to the hull by precision attacks on weak points, followed by an insertion into the military-controlled hanger and the destruction of the power core. This leaves the vast majority of the structure intact and gives the Voth a chance to limp away on emergency power.
Destroying the core nullifies the clear and present danger of the ship with as few losses on the Voth side as possible. Even in the military hanger, your goal is not to slaughter all Voth, but to close the hanger doors to keep them out of the fight and save as many as you can. It is clear from the beginning that everything is being done to save as many Voth as possible. You couldn't ask for a cleaner operation.
This is done even though it would be easier for the Romulans to just create a big conga line of Scimitars and chain-thalaron the entire ship until nobody is left alive.
These measures are being taken in spite of the obvious threat of the Voth, who seem to commit crimes against the "pitiful mammals" wantonly. Do you really think it would be legal if an army started feeding enemy soldiers to tigers? Look on the battlezone, and you will find instances of wounded and disarmed Federation, Klingon, and Romulan captives being menaced by vicious animals who will no doubt painfully kill and devour them. Deploying combat beasts to kill people with fangs and talons is clearly an illegal terror tactic.
They even arm their medics and employ them directly in stealing Omega particles, clearly an attempt to hide behind Federation conventions while accomplishing military objectives! This in and of itself is a horrific crime, the use of human(oid) shields. A favorite of tin-pot dictators. They're probably forced into it. Is the V-Rex there to defend the silo, or eat any medic who's troublesome "ethics" get in the way of their mission?
Such are the hideous lengths that the bloodthirsty, dogmatic Voth will go to in their mad quest to harness the very fire of creation in the search for new WMDs with which to assert their dreams of racial superiority over the galaxy.
But on the other hand, if you ever played Mass Effect and used the incendiary rounds weapon mod, then you deserve everything you have coming to you, filthy war criminal.
*(And no, the Voth ship will not collide with the Dyson shell plate. If the Voth are bringing in such a valuable asset, they will keep it tidally locked to the star if they're smart.)
(You seem to think that they're complete nitwits, though. In which case, the civilians no doubt have time to transport off or board ships or escape pods. The overall gravity at that altitude should be light, due to the enveloping nature of the shell surface applying gravity from all sides at once, which will buy them time. You can see this in the other combat zones, where Voth ships float in place after being disabled, rather than falling.)
I personally enjoy it.. but I like the "Death Star" type of missions like this, Ace Combat has this on every game in the series and I think its fun... but that just me and I digress.
So I have been playing this game since shortly after it launched so I'm no stranger to the game mechanics, whats preferred, etc. I also mostly play in PUGs, and yes I know that's a TRIBBLE shoot, but it adds variety to the game for me,but some things I would like to throw out there are.
It would be nice to make the optional a little better known. For example in the first room unless you look in at the mission requirements you don't know to close the hanger doors to lighten move on and slow down the waves of ships. Would be nice to get a little pop up or something from an officer suggesting it like in other missions (Infected Space comes to mind as an example, for it's optional) This would help from a PUG standpoint as it would let everyone know whats going on and what to do. (now, if the other players in the PUG choose not to do it, fine I'm ok with that it comes with playing PUGs but at least it take the ignorance factor out of the equation.)
On this same note, when you move into the room with the dreadnought I would think some mention about rescuing the ships should be more clear. About half the time (Yes I know in a PUG) most of the team bee-line for the dread and ignore the other ships/ rescuing them... again a mention would be nice aside from, or in addition to the pop up about only the dread who does nothing until attacked. I think this would slow this behavior down a little.
Now for a question. Back in the hanger room, I can never seem to locate the ships that need saving? sometimes they are rescued and sometimes they are not when I run it. But I have never been able to spot them so I just go about closing doors and hoping someone on my team gets to them... any tips on their location in this room?
And has anyone else noticed that Aceton Beam seems to draw a good aggro from the Voth? It actually seems to a very useful ability in this mission.bypassing invinci-shields and all, and for a role play aspect (if that's your thing) I like to go with they are reptiles historically from earth so I like to think they are more susceptible to radiation.
So congrats, you finally managed to remove the fun out of that mission too.
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can be done without cloak and on cruisers/carriers by simply hugging the right wall as you come in and Evasive Maneuver/Power to Engines your way to the opposite end. be sure to carry engine batteries in case the off chance the voth knocks your engines offline.
Breach has been bugged since season 9 unfortunately where things are hitting with 100% shield penetration (includes their weapons. plasma ejections, etc). The know where the problem is but no ETA on fix.
yea this is what I used to do, with cruiser commands on speed. Then turn left and take lix until I reach the other end. To free those ships.
Experienced that unknowingly and became part of the Voth healthy balanced breakfast. It only happens outside though. Can get inside ship and tank dreadnought as normal after blowing up over and over
That annoys me more tbh. Especially in the dread hangar. Nothing is more silly than seeing someone sitting next to a ship that needs rescue just blasting away at Voth. All it takes is pressing F button to acquire free marks, why not just do it since you're there anyway?
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Indeed. It appears to be a zombie. Get your Boomsticks ready!