Here's my take on Thalaron radiation. When you cut through fancy terms like "biogenic pulse" and all this such, what you end up with is this. Thalaron energy is basically antilife energy. Indeed one possible translation of Thalaron could be "death energy" or 'death particle" So yes, one could view this as something rather terrifying (beyond ordinary radiation and even really horrible things like Delta Rays.) Especially to the more spiritual elements of the feds like the Betazoids, as well as fun guys like tha bajorans.
That being said though, People should remember what Obisek said "Horrible weapons... never should have been invented." But he was willing to use them if necessary for survival.
Moreover all should remember that if one does not like or want to use the Thalaron Pulse, then just do not slot the third console! Use the slot for a subspace jumper, assimilated module, zero-point conduit... hell the options are vast,
If you want to take the outlook of "only the most devastating threats?" (Borg for example) that works too.
If you just like to give people the Antilife Fist of Judgment? By all means, Just practice saying "NOT GUILTY!" with Lincoln Stern's voice. Good luck trying to use it effectively in ordinary battles though. From what I have seen it will be difficult to say the least.
So really there are plenty of options for all people on the "Thalaron Scale"
Well, off to my AA (Antilife Anonymous) meeting. Pip Pip, and happy pulsing!
I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Tholaron weapons can be used to destroy a ship in the blink of an eye? Well, the federation is fighting a war. The goal is to destroy the enemies' ships as quickly as possible, isn't it? Tholaron weapons would kill billions of civilians if deployed against a planet? Well, what would happen if you deployed a Tricobalt torpedo against a planet? You would kill millions of civilians if you aimed at a populated area. Yet the federation allows Tricobalt torpedos on its ships. Honestly, it seems that Bio-Molecular warheads should be a bigger concern than Tholaron weapons, since they are apparently specifically designed to kill lifeforms rather than destroying enemy ships. If I'm missing something here, please let me know. I'm not familiar with the lore surrounding Tholaron weapons. My comments are just based on what I've seen in the game.
Well look at subspace weapons, a banned weapon in the Federation, but used by the Son'a, and the Son'a and the Federation were allied at one point in time. So, I think a certain amount of real-politik (sp?) is going on here.
I think that you could probably sum it up like this. D'Tan is not an idiot, he knows that he needs the help of the Federation and the Klingon Empire to survive if he doesn't want to be swallowed up by the Feds, the Klingons, or what is left of the Romulan Empire. Take a look at the Romulan Republic, its basically a one planet government at this point in time. So, he has two strings to his bow. One is playing the Federation and the Klingon Empire off on each other. They will both help him grow his government and take a small piece of the pie (Romulan Technology) so that they prevent the other from taking over and taking all of the pie. The other is Thalaron weapons. They are D'Tan's nuke, his hole card, though like current day nukes, he know that if he uses them whole sale, he will be destroyed. So, he hoards them, and keeps a few in the Scimitars as his insurance that if anything does happen to the Republic, those ships will see to it that whoever did it will not survive to enjoy it.
I have to admit, this is the best possible scenario to explain this silliness.
_____________________________________________
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
I have to admit, this is the best possible scenario to explain this silliness.
Silliness indeed! My head hurts from the past twelve hours of it here on the forum.. Christ, its a game, its a ship. people are going to fly it in ESTFs because its level 50. there IS no story. the story is over and gone.. all of this bickering over ethics and right and wrong doesnt matter because after level fifty there is nothing but the daily grind and something of a social life. Its bloody stupid.
Scimitar with Thalaron weapon is canon, was shown in Nemesis and is the weapon system that the Scimitar is designed around.
To which I say that Cryptic is not only breaking established canon -- that Thalaron weapons were universally banned (by Romulans , Klingons , Federation) , they are also breaking their own canon -- in their best FE you chase a criminal suspected of planning to use Thalaron weapons (Obisek) .
Oh and let's not forget that little brainwashing business with Hakeev / Sela when you play as a Reman .
That goes out the window as well .
Yup , the "good guys" now use Thalaron weapons as well .
We didn't 'till yesterday ?
:eek:Oh well ... , money, money, money , must be funny , in the rich man's world . :rolleyes:
its not breaking canon. This ship will 'never" be used in any storyline context. it is specifically a level 50 and above ship, wherein the stories over, ended kaput, out the window, taken on the lamb.. its gone.. its just a damned ship.. if you dont like it fine, dont buy it. Just stop the damned whining..
The Romulan republic is a bunch of freedom fighter/terrorists depending on your point of view. they signed no treaty and in the face of all the TRIBBLE they have had to put up with from the tal shiar it would be perfectly reasonable to assume some within their ranks would use these weapons with or without anyone's approval from above and feel perfectly justified doing so. (this is a MMORPG and every player has the choice of if to use the weapons that do exist or not).
obisek himself used them and now he is everyone's best friend. so would he care? i doubt it.
would d'tan care? maybe, but in a fragile situation where his people are on the line, perhaps a blind eye would be turned. He is still a romulan and not one to be pushed around or get sentimental on people. i think under the circumstances he would let it pass but would be looking to ban them later on.
would the klingons care? probably not. banned or not i doubt the klingons would make much of a fuss about it. they would probably be more interested in calling the treaty null and void and finding their own weapons in a new arms race.
would the feds care? yes they would. but if you've been told the borg are going to overrun you in 3 years, the undine are everywhere, your being attacked by all sides and he iconians are waiting to conquer the galaxy, would they suddenly feel as confident? we have seen them approve genocide with the founders when it worked to their advantage. if a few borg, tal shiar, undine get killed by someone else using this weapon then might not be their biggest concern. they cant stop the republic from using it, so would be more interested in securing peace with them to make sure they never ended up on the wrong end of it.
It won't cause a ban for my Capt. and her Scimitar. Since I'm only buying 1 ship. And the ship won't be using it. Since to get it you have to buy 3 ships. The weapon takes too long to charge up for me to use.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I find it odd as well. Since the game story both Fed and KDF went out of their way to stop the use of those weapons. I hadn't got that far with the Romulan yet. But I'm sure its the same. Oh well they created some good $ for this one. I'm sure many will buy the 3 pack.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The scale, a single ship in orbit cn wipe out a whole planet
But also that it works only on organic matter.
That means you can use it indiscriniately on a planet and then just take it afterwards.
I would just like to point out that a Constitution class starship could do the same thing, a thalaron weapon is just faster.
I find it odd as well. Since the game story both Fed and KDF went out of their way to stop the use of those weapons. I hadn't got that far with the Romulan yet. But I'm sure its the same. Oh well they created some good $ for this one. I'm sure many will buy the 3 pack.
Yup. in seven hours and fourty five minutes.. count on it.. course, i cant exactly go out and blow Hakeev away with it or lay waste to earth or quonos or anyother planet because heh, story times over.. theres only the daily grind, but it can still be fun against the borg perhaps..
To me this ship is just a tool for generating dilithium and EC. nothing more.. I think for many of us, thats all it ever going to be because the story has been told. its over. Nothing they come out with in the future will mean a thing unless they raise the level cap to somewhere around 80, but then what?? Your already an admiral or general. what are they gonna do?/ make you a demi god?? Events?/ yeahh heyy, lets take themscimitar surfing on risa.. right.. there wont be any killer events either.. its just a tool and thats all..
Thaloron weapons are a morality issue not because of the scale of damage they can cause, but by the extraordinarily excessive amount of suffering victims endure before death.
The problem with this is that just like exploration and diplomacy, morality issues have been completely removed from the game.
At this point with the Undine having been discovered infiltrating key positions inside the respective governments the Federation and Klingon Empire would have already called a cease fire and begun diplomatic negotiations to end the war and reform the alliance to deal with a threat to quadrant security. Similarly more exploration missions would have uncovered more planets that used to be controlled by the Iconians either in runs of with since of renewed activity.
Again exploration, diplomacy, and morality have been completely removed despite these are the very core essence of Star Trek. You can to remember it looks like Star Trek, it sounds like Star Trek, but it's not Star Trek.
it looks like Star Trek, it sounds like Star Trek, but it's not Star Trek.
I dont think your going to get an argument out of anyone in regards to that fine point. The game has been called never online, Jetpacks online and gods know what else, but the one thing everyone is painfully aware of is that it isnt canon and it isnt star trek. We all know this and agree.. The game is what it is. its a game with star trek in the name.. nothing more..
its not breaking canon. This ship will 'never" be used in any storyline context.
But it's main weapon was used in a story line context at least twice in STO , both times with negative connotations .
Ah , but here comes your justification :
it is specifically a level 50 and above ship, wherein the stories over, ended kaput
I hate so say it , but you're wrong on this one too .
Story time is not over , this game will see more stories and even a raise in level cap .
So ... ?
its just a damned ship.. if you dont like it fine, dont buy it. Just stop the damned whining..
You do know that throwing in the "whining" bit just brings your arguments (such as they were) to a lower standard .
But you're right about one thing , I won't be buying it .... .
Yet I'll admit that it fills me with a sense of a preverse joy to hear Cryptic saying that you won't be able to "play as a bad guy" in STO , and yet give you the very expensive choice to do just that .
Why do you all cry about a Thalaron weapon yet make no reservations about outfitting your front line ships with active, untested Borg technology, one of the least understood and most dangerous races in the Galaxy?
I can think of a lot more reasons to TRIBBLE on people's fun because of some lame line of canon. This is of course a game and not a simulation. A balance must be struck but this is fine. We aren't flying over Earth and obliterating the Americas in one shot. We just want some sweet revenge on Donatra.
- While the Federation may have a point about thalaron weaponry, the Romulans could make quite a case for being cross about Starfleet vessels using cloaking devices (cf. the Treaty of Algeron, 2311)
- These are player ships, and so the ethical burden lies with you - the player. It's up to you to see that they remain a weapon of last resort, rather than shooting it off all over the place.
- To use a RW example, there are numerous occasions in RW politics where a "strong" country has a semi-suzerain relationship with a "weak" country, where the "weak" country is doing things that the "strong" country doesn't approve of but is still maintaining its alliance.
Mechanically, it's basically useless against all but the stupidest of captains. Nice for STFs, but not much else.
Thematically, given the resurgance of the borg, the undine, and now the elachi, the romulan republic are having to take desparate measures to ensure their survival. As was said before, the Obisek stance. And D'tan probably agrees, since he and Obisek are allies/friends.
"What is neccessary, is never unwise."
Besides i want to fly up to ESD and fire the pulse at the station, just for giggles!
Real Temporal Operative: Purchased the Special Temporal Agent pack before it was even officially announced!
I would just like to point out that a Constitution class starship could do the same thing, a thalaron weapon is just faster.
No, it couldn't do the same thing.
The bombing of Dresden resulted in roughly 25,000 dead, given the population of over 630,000 that's about 4%.
The most thorough bombing in history was done in North Korea, which resulted in about 25% death toll.
Nuking Hiroshima had an initial death toll of about 30% (not counting radiation).
A ship trying to achieve a 100% casualty rate on a planetary scale will be busy for months.
And the difference is that it will be using its weapons, that can be employed for various things including defend itself for this purpose.
What other purpose do Thalaron weapons have aside from genocide?
Whilst I am NOT a fan of Thalaron weaponry being introduced as a fanboy uber-weapon for the Scimitar, I personally don't think that it's really any worse than the idea that every faction tolerates the ridiculous 'Lobi Crystal Consortium' salvaging powerful ships and selling them off to anyone and everyone.
I find it hard to believe that no-one, in the Federation in particular, has a problem with them doing this.
Nt quite anyone and everyone, but rather only those rich enough to afford to purchase enough master keys to open enough lock boxes to get the 800 lobi crystals ypu need to purchase the ships.. Since Lobi crystals can only be found in lock boxes now this could become quite realistically expensive as hell.. but no, no on will complain because the federation makes out just as well as anyone else with these pilfered romulan/tal shiar ships..
Thalaron is banned by the federation. Its use is depicted as profoundly evil. In the current lore, the federation, romulan republic, and KDF all would (and do, as depicted on nimbus and other story missions) not allow anyone to use this weapon.
Yet players are getting it as a new toy.
The scimitar thalaron burst in ST: Nemesis was designed to destroy all life on earth. This is the weapon we are being given as a bonus to use in space combat. Regularly.
Why not give us VX gas and Sarin while we're at it? Maybe some planetary nuke stations so we can go commit genocide. This is what thalaron is for. This is the equivalent of making a WWII video game and creating a player faction which rounds up jews and puts them in gas chambers. ST: Ethnic cleansing, anyone?
I don't care about the game mechanic. It's a big cone attack that blows up ships. Just name it something else.
Thalaron radiation represents depravity at its most extreme. Giving this to players indicates apathy to the same degree. We're just getting some pretty green lights to shoot at things, even though its purpose is mass killing on a planetary scale.
Does Cryptic even care about the lore anymore?
Don't you people get tired of this? Hello, evil alien race!!! They may be a silly flower-power part of the species, but they are still Romulans. Romulans do unethical things if it suits them as shown innumerable times in the shows/movies. That's why they are Romulans....If the Federation were to use Thalaron based weaponry I'd be in full agreement with you.
Your WWII analogy is simply silly as WWII actually happened, a dark page in our history. Star Trek is fictional.
Finally, what is the difference between using a radiation-based weapon to wipe out a planet or simply wipe all life out with an orbital bombardment?
Ayedno some angles of what's canon are wrong. Namely the scene where the Enterprise D shoots at a plent and the ground just collapses when it should vaporize. Mistakes happen even in canon whether it's budget or time constraints down to just plain not knowing wtf ur doing.
Even more often than not what's non-canon proves to be more canon than canon.
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
If I had the choice to die burned alive by plasma fire, or quickly by a thalaron weapon, I think I'd choose thalaron weapon. Yet, plasma is fine, and thalaron is not. Not to mention Andorian slowly dying by phaser wound (or was it disruptor ?), another authorized weapon.
Just like any other weapon, the thalaron can be used against civilian. Guess what ? Your ship ALREADY carry enough firepower to turn whole cities in dust. In fact, any weapon can kill civilians.
I think the federation is scarred by the firepower of the thalaron (wipe an entire planet in less than a minute), that's why it's banned, not because it's unethical. War is unethical by definition, no matter which weapon you use to kill someone, he is still dead in the end, and the thalaron make it quick, at least.
No need to prove Godwin's law once again and involve gas chamber to prove your point. We still use flamethrower, one of the most horrible weapon ever created, that killed thousands of civilians and military alike.
For the Romulan, it's an efficient weapon, and it kill quickly. Is there anything else you want from a weapon ?
Don't you people get tired of this? Hello, evil alien race!!! They may be a silly flower-power part of the species, but they are still Romulans. Romulans do unethical things if it suits them as shown innumerable times in the shows/movies. That's why they are Romulans....If the Federation were to use Thalaron based weaponry I'd be in full agreement with you.
Your WWII analogy is simply silly as WWII actually happened, a dark page in our history. Star Trek is fictional.
Finally, what is the difference between using a radiation-based weapon to wipe out a planet or simply wipe all life out with an orbital bombardment?
You beat me too it.
The faction who has these weapons are not fed or klingons. they are romulans, and romulan rebels/terrorist/freedom fighters at that. none of them signed any treaty.
and as horrible as the weapon is its not anything that cant be done another way.
if a klingon fleet massacres a whole peaceful civilization from orbit (or even down on the ground in hand to hand) well thats just klingons being klingons and people embrace that. it does not make it right either but they still do it.
and what we have is a cool game mechanic that mirrors what was seen in the show. its not meant to be taken 100% seriously in the same way you are not meant to take respawns or accolades for killing a thousand people seriously.
Thalaron is a type of radiation in the tertiary EM band with biogenic properties, able to consume organic matter at the subatomic level. Thalaron's unique properties allow its effective range to expand almost without limit, meaning that even a microscopic amount can be incredibly dangerous.
***
That's from Memory Alpha - so it's canon. The problem with Thalaron weapons/radiation is even a small amount can expand without limits. So unlike your photon torpedo volley launched against a planetary fortress or your phaser/disruptor attacks which over time could glass a planet: the tiniest bit of this stuff could EAT every organic thing on a planet. As for glassing a planet - Yes, the Federation and KDF can do it - but I can't think of a single time in the prime universe it's been given as more then an idle threat.
It wouldn't have been very hard to include that Thalaron graphic for the Scimitar and name it something less 'offensive' to the game/lore. Enhanced Plasma Cascade Generator - for example. Then put something in the tool tip about how it's still a magnificently devastating weapon - but one very controllable and not an absolute abomination to the Romulan people and their allies.
I can understand they put the Thalaon Pulse on the playable Scimitar, because it's the defining trait of the Scimitar-class. And surely players would've asked "why don't it have the Thalaron Device" if they did leave it off.
But it is ironic that in the Federation, Klingon, and especially the Romulan storylines, we get "Thalaron = EVIL!" And yet, the Romulan Republic is willingly having their captains have it available.
Oh well, Catch-22.
Exactly this.
Cryptic was in a sticky situation with the Scimitar anyhow, we all knew it was coming, however, no matter what Cryptic would have done about the Thalaron device, it would have been wrong.
They choose to include it, this spawned threads like these with very valid objections.
And if they had chosen not to include it, threads would have been made by people whining that their Scimitar doesn't have it's signature weapon, just as many people, if not more, would have been complaining as there are now.
In fact, I bet several people complaining now, would also have been complaining if Cryptic had decided not to include it.
I was wondering if I read somewhere (possibly soft canon I really can't remember) that the scimitar was a prototype and with that gone all they had were the basic build plans. With that and the obvious feeling towards thalaron weapons the Republic had to or wanted to retrofitted the scimitars with traditional singularity cores. The classic example would be what Starfleet did with the Excelsior.
It would have created a convenient excuse to keep the scimitar in line with others ships and it could still do the thalaron blast just instead go plasma/disruptor.
Thalaron is here to stay and I don't see that getting changed. I think there are a couple references in the game missions that need to be addressed for consistency, but the easier option is to include a later mission that states how thalarons were recently accepted weapon type by the federation, further selling out their convictions in the fear of defeat.
Everyone needs to understand, STO is not a deep star trek game, it is more a Star Trek themed war game. Tractors are only used in battle, there is no tractoring ships or objects around, or any of that. Shields are always on. You don't control red alert and you cant go to full impulse at red alert. These are all to cater to combat.
If the game was more than that then we would all have tractors, there would be missions to use them in (could be a lot of fun) like how Legacy incorporated them.
Shields would be at our control and consider the implications in first contact missions, when to raise shields? We could meet higher technological species that could scare us, the tactical officer tells us this ship is a threat or not and we decide our posture to take for first contact or what not based on a balance of ship/crew welfare and diplomatic concerns.
Finally the full impulse prevents you from withdrawing without evasive, which is misapplied as a retreat ability. Instead of being able to take weapons and aux off line for full impulse in battle or something we just have that decision taken away from us, so we cannot leave combat.
STO is about combat and weapons, in this universe the ongoing constant war is just something that has corrupted everyone and the game is exploring a time when both the kdf and feds are near single minded on conflict. Thalarons fit into this story, and that is the sad part. I really thought the war with klingons would end not too long after launch in favor of being a more in depth game where more peaceful situations would be available.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Comments
That being said though, People should remember what Obisek said "Horrible weapons... never should have been invented." But he was willing to use them if necessary for survival.
Moreover all should remember that if one does not like or want to use the Thalaron Pulse, then just do not slot the third console! Use the slot for a subspace jumper, assimilated module, zero-point conduit... hell the options are vast,
If you want to take the outlook of "only the most devastating threats?" (Borg for example) that works too.
If you just like to give people the Antilife Fist of Judgment? By all means, Just practice saying "NOT GUILTY!" with Lincoln Stern's voice. Good luck trying to use it effectively in ordinary battles though. From what I have seen it will be difficult to say the least.
So really there are plenty of options for all people on the "Thalaron Scale"
Well, off to my AA (Antilife Anonymous) meeting. Pip Pip, and happy pulsing!
*flies away*
I have to admit, this is the best possible scenario to explain this silliness.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
Silliness indeed! My head hurts from the past twelve hours of it here on the forum.. Christ, its a game, its a ship. people are going to fly it in ESTFs because its level 50. there IS no story. the story is over and gone.. all of this bickering over ethics and right and wrong doesnt matter because after level fifty there is nothing but the daily grind and something of a social life. Its bloody stupid.
To which I say that Cryptic is not only breaking established canon -- that Thalaron weapons were universally banned (by Romulans , Klingons , Federation) , they are also breaking their own canon -- in their best FE you chase a criminal suspected of planning to use Thalaron weapons (Obisek) .
Oh and let's not forget that little brainwashing business with Hakeev / Sela when you play as a Reman .
That goes out the window as well .
Yup , the "good guys" now use Thalaron weapons as well .
We didn't 'till yesterday ?
:eek:Oh well ... , money, money, money , must be funny , in the rich man's world . :rolleyes:
This has nothing to do with Star Trek .
obisek himself used them and now he is everyone's best friend. so would he care? i doubt it.
would d'tan care? maybe, but in a fragile situation where his people are on the line, perhaps a blind eye would be turned. He is still a romulan and not one to be pushed around or get sentimental on people. i think under the circumstances he would let it pass but would be looking to ban them later on.
would the klingons care? probably not. banned or not i doubt the klingons would make much of a fuss about it. they would probably be more interested in calling the treaty null and void and finding their own weapons in a new arms race.
would the feds care? yes they would. but if you've been told the borg are going to overrun you in 3 years, the undine are everywhere, your being attacked by all sides and he iconians are waiting to conquer the galaxy, would they suddenly feel as confident? we have seen them approve genocide with the founders when it worked to their advantage. if a few borg, tal shiar, undine get killed by someone else using this weapon then might not be their biggest concern. they cant stop the republic from using it, so would be more interested in securing peace with them to make sure they never ended up on the wrong end of it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I would just like to point out that a Constitution class starship could do the same thing, a thalaron weapon is just faster.
Yup. in seven hours and fourty five minutes.. count on it.. course, i cant exactly go out and blow Hakeev away with it or lay waste to earth or quonos or anyother planet because heh, story times over.. theres only the daily grind, but it can still be fun against the borg perhaps..
To me this ship is just a tool for generating dilithium and EC. nothing more.. I think for many of us, thats all it ever going to be because the story has been told. its over. Nothing they come out with in the future will mean a thing unless they raise the level cap to somewhere around 80, but then what?? Your already an admiral or general. what are they gonna do?/ make you a demi god?? Events?/ yeahh heyy, lets take themscimitar surfing on risa.. right.. there wont be any killer events either.. its just a tool and thats all..
The problem with this is that just like exploration and diplomacy, morality issues have been completely removed from the game.
At this point with the Undine having been discovered infiltrating key positions inside the respective governments the Federation and Klingon Empire would have already called a cease fire and begun diplomatic negotiations to end the war and reform the alliance to deal with a threat to quadrant security. Similarly more exploration missions would have uncovered more planets that used to be controlled by the Iconians either in runs of with since of renewed activity.
Again exploration, diplomacy, and morality have been completely removed despite these are the very core essence of Star Trek. You can to remember it looks like Star Trek, it sounds like Star Trek, but it's not Star Trek.
I dont think your going to get an argument out of anyone in regards to that fine point. The game has been called never online, Jetpacks online and gods know what else, but the one thing everyone is painfully aware of is that it isnt canon and it isnt star trek. We all know this and agree.. The game is what it is. its a game with star trek in the name.. nothing more..
But it's main weapon was used in a story line context at least twice in STO , both times with negative connotations .
Ah , but here comes your justification :
I hate so say it , but you're wrong on this one too .
Story time is not over , this game will see more stories and even a raise in level cap .
So ... ?
You do know that throwing in the "whining" bit just brings your arguments (such as they were) to a lower standard .
But you're right about one thing , I won't be buying it .... .
Yet I'll admit that it fills me with a sense of a preverse joy to hear Cryptic saying that you won't be able to "play as a bad guy" in STO , and yet give you the very expensive choice to do just that .
I can think of a lot more reasons to TRIBBLE on people's fun because of some lame line of canon. This is of course a game and not a simulation. A balance must be struck but this is fine. We aren't flying over Earth and obliterating the Americas in one shot. We just want some sweet revenge on Donatra.
- While the Federation may have a point about thalaron weaponry, the Romulans could make quite a case for being cross about Starfleet vessels using cloaking devices (cf. the Treaty of Algeron, 2311)
- These are player ships, and so the ethical burden lies with you - the player. It's up to you to see that they remain a weapon of last resort, rather than shooting it off all over the place.
- To use a RW example, there are numerous occasions in RW politics where a "strong" country has a semi-suzerain relationship with a "weak" country, where the "weak" country is doing things that the "strong" country doesn't approve of but is still maintaining its alliance.
Mechanically, it's basically useless against all but the stupidest of captains. Nice for STFs, but not much else.
Thematically, given the resurgance of the borg, the undine, and now the elachi, the romulan republic are having to take desparate measures to ensure their survival. As was said before, the Obisek stance. And D'tan probably agrees, since he and Obisek are allies/friends.
"What is neccessary, is never unwise."
Besides i want to fly up to ESD and fire the pulse at the station, just for giggles!
No, it couldn't do the same thing.
The bombing of Dresden resulted in roughly 25,000 dead, given the population of over 630,000 that's about 4%.
The most thorough bombing in history was done in North Korea, which resulted in about 25% death toll.
Nuking Hiroshima had an initial death toll of about 30% (not counting radiation).
A ship trying to achieve a 100% casualty rate on a planetary scale will be busy for months.
And the difference is that it will be using its weapons, that can be employed for various things including defend itself for this purpose.
What other purpose do Thalaron weapons have aside from genocide?
Nt quite anyone and everyone, but rather only those rich enough to afford to purchase enough master keys to open enough lock boxes to get the 800 lobi crystals ypu need to purchase the ships.. Since Lobi crystals can only be found in lock boxes now this could become quite realistically expensive as hell.. but no, no on will complain because the federation makes out just as well as anyone else with these pilfered romulan/tal shiar ships..
Don't you people get tired of this? Hello, evil alien race!!! They may be a silly flower-power part of the species, but they are still Romulans. Romulans do unethical things if it suits them as shown innumerable times in the shows/movies. That's why they are Romulans....If the Federation were to use Thalaron based weaponry I'd be in full agreement with you.
Your WWII analogy is simply silly as WWII actually happened, a dark page in our history. Star Trek is fictional.
Finally, what is the difference between using a radiation-based weapon to wipe out a planet or simply wipe all life out with an orbital bombardment?
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
Yep they'll turn you into a Q for an event....just wait it's coming!*plays the twilight zone music*
Even more often than not what's non-canon proves to be more canon than canon.
cause sometimes its party time!
Just like any other weapon, the thalaron can be used against civilian. Guess what ? Your ship ALREADY carry enough firepower to turn whole cities in dust. In fact, any weapon can kill civilians.
I think the federation is scarred by the firepower of the thalaron (wipe an entire planet in less than a minute), that's why it's banned, not because it's unethical. War is unethical by definition, no matter which weapon you use to kill someone, he is still dead in the end, and the thalaron make it quick, at least.
No need to prove Godwin's law once again and involve gas chamber to prove your point. We still use flamethrower, one of the most horrible weapon ever created, that killed thousands of civilians and military alike.
For the Romulan, it's an efficient weapon, and it kill quickly. Is there anything else you want from a weapon ?
You beat me too it.
The faction who has these weapons are not fed or klingons. they are romulans, and romulan rebels/terrorist/freedom fighters at that. none of them signed any treaty.
and as horrible as the weapon is its not anything that cant be done another way.
if a klingon fleet massacres a whole peaceful civilization from orbit (or even down on the ground in hand to hand) well thats just klingons being klingons and people embrace that. it does not make it right either but they still do it.
and what we have is a cool game mechanic that mirrors what was seen in the show. its not meant to be taken 100% seriously in the same way you are not meant to take respawns or accolades for killing a thousand people seriously.
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That's from Memory Alpha - so it's canon. The problem with Thalaron weapons/radiation is even a small amount can expand without limits. So unlike your photon torpedo volley launched against a planetary fortress or your phaser/disruptor attacks which over time could glass a planet: the tiniest bit of this stuff could EAT every organic thing on a planet. As for glassing a planet - Yes, the Federation and KDF can do it - but I can't think of a single time in the prime universe it's been given as more then an idle threat.
It wouldn't have been very hard to include that Thalaron graphic for the Scimitar and name it something less 'offensive' to the game/lore. Enhanced Plasma Cascade Generator - for example. Then put something in the tool tip about how it's still a magnificently devastating weapon - but one very controllable and not an absolute abomination to the Romulan people and their allies.
Exactly this.
Cryptic was in a sticky situation with the Scimitar anyhow, we all knew it was coming, however, no matter what Cryptic would have done about the Thalaron device, it would have been wrong.
They choose to include it, this spawned threads like these with very valid objections.
And if they had chosen not to include it, threads would have been made by people whining that their Scimitar doesn't have it's signature weapon, just as many people, if not more, would have been complaining as there are now.
In fact, I bet several people complaining now, would also have been complaining if Cryptic had decided not to include it.
It would have created a convenient excuse to keep the scimitar in line with others ships and it could still do the thalaron blast just instead go plasma/disruptor.
Everyone needs to understand, STO is not a deep star trek game, it is more a Star Trek themed war game. Tractors are only used in battle, there is no tractoring ships or objects around, or any of that. Shields are always on. You don't control red alert and you cant go to full impulse at red alert. These are all to cater to combat.
If the game was more than that then we would all have tractors, there would be missions to use them in (could be a lot of fun) like how Legacy incorporated them.
Shields would be at our control and consider the implications in first contact missions, when to raise shields? We could meet higher technological species that could scare us, the tactical officer tells us this ship is a threat or not and we decide our posture to take for first contact or what not based on a balance of ship/crew welfare and diplomatic concerns.
Finally the full impulse prevents you from withdrawing without evasive, which is misapplied as a retreat ability. Instead of being able to take weapons and aux off line for full impulse in battle or something we just have that decision taken away from us, so we cannot leave combat.
STO is about combat and weapons, in this universe the ongoing constant war is just something that has corrupted everyone and the game is exploring a time when both the kdf and feds are near single minded on conflict. Thalarons fit into this story, and that is the sad part. I really thought the war with klingons would end not too long after launch in favor of being a more in depth game where more peaceful situations would be available.
Same complaint with the romulans, yes they rewrite it any way they want to.
And that's how it has to be not least because of engine limits but for the sake of creativity aswell.